: Did Anyone Really Expect The Wii U To Succeed?

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Did Anyone Really Expect The Wii U To Succeed?

Come on. People are surprised at the news? Really?

Nintendo says they're considering a "new business model" after the Wii U's dismal sales became even more public during a recent conference.

With less than 4 million units sold to date (and remember, the system has been out for well over a year), and drastically lowered sales expectations for the fiscal period, Nintendo is being forced to reevaluate.

Well, duh. Look, I'm no seer. I didn't expect the Wii to explode but then again, I had no idea what the Wii would do. I did know that if Nintendo successfully catered to the mainstream masses, from kids to senior citizens, the thing would explode. It was a gimmick, a fad, true enough. It was. And it received very little in the way of quality third-party support. However, it was a new electronic gadget that qualified as an "electronic gadget" in a world where gadgets rule. It wasn't just video games; it was the "next-gen" version of video games. Hence, it exploded.

I have always - and will always - applaud Nintendo for that move. It was ingenious. But how they could turn around and, mere years later, pull a total blunder like the Wii U is beyond me. I took one look at the details for that new system and just laughed. I was stunned. I thought it was a joke. The game company that will always occupy a very warm place in my heart, the one that proved all the naysayers wrong by doing the unthinkable and winning over the non-gamers with the Wii; this is what they did. A high-def version of the same gimmick, the same fad. Rule #1 of the marketplace: Fads have a lifespan, and it ain't long.

You can't gussy up the fad and expect it to work again. That just doesn't happen, especially if the competition has already implemented their own versions of your breakthrough. Sure, Sony and Microsoft stole Nintendo's idea with Move and and Kinect. No kidding. But it's done. And that singular feature that rocketed your previous product to immense success is no longer singular. Doing it again when you - and the competition - have already done it...makes zero sense. Nintendo also had to know that the PS4 and Xbox One were on the way, and gamers would be waiting on those systems. Not only was the Wii U's launch timing bad, it's outlook is terrible.

Your admittedly legendary mascots can only keep the ship afloat for so long. Nintendo expected to sell 9 million Wii Us by the end of March 2014. They now anticipate selling only 2.8 million. That's not just a lowered expectation, that's an absolute bomb. Even the 3DS is slipping. I'm not saying Nintendo is going out of business. I'm saying that from the start, I knew the Wii U was a horrendous idea...if I knew it, how the hell did Nintendo not know it?

1/17/2014 Ben Dutka

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Comments (105 posts)

Ather
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 10:24:08 PM
Reply

Wii U is what Wii should have been. had they made it that way, things would be quite different. But no. Too much focus on their gimmicks.

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Bonampak
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:07:12 AM

There is apparently, something that Nintendo is going to learn from their failure with the Wii U, though.

People should read what David Jaffe had to say about Nintendo's latest debacle on his Twitter account.

He gives a bit of a fresh perspective among all the doom scenarios being described in this industry.

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firesoul453
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:45:36 PM

Wii u technology didn't exist back then. Something equivantly powerful (and that controller) would probably put the cost up to a grand back then.

Not to mention that nintendo made a ton of money from the wii.

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Bonampak
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 3:09:29 PM

@firesoul453 - They not only made a ton of money on the Wii (with both hardware and software sales - Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Smash Bros. etc.) but they're STILL making a lot of money from that console (still selling better than the Wii U) and also from the 3DS. The 3DS was the best selling system in the US in 2013.

They have to-date, 18 billion dollars in the bank. Their failure with the Wii U will not force them to disappear or become a 3rd party developer. They would need to have several Wii U disasters (for several decades & also avoid making any profits from their handheld division) to even go there.

EDIT: Just noticed something about Ben's editorial.

Ben says that the Wii U sold less than 4 million units to date. That is incorrect.

The 3.9 million figure that Ben is using in his editorial, actually comes from sales numbers from back in September 30th, 2013. That sales figure doesn't reflect how the system fared in the following months (November-December).

According to the NPD, this is how the Wii U performed in November and December just in the US:

November (Wii U): 220,000 units sold
December (Wii U): 460,000 units sold

Again, those numbers are just from the US. Not counting sales in the rest of the world. If you add them up to the 3.9 million sales figure, you end up with:

4.580.000 units sold to-date.

So Ben needs to edit his editorial on that. Because the Wii U is certainly not below the 4 million mark. In fact, considering how much it sold just in Japan last month (330,000 units), the Wii U is actually a lot closer to the 5 million mark. :)

Last edited by Bonampak on 1/18/2014 4:13:45 PM

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Geno
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 10:46:18 PM
Reply

Finally someone said the same thing I have been thinking for awhile now. But yet people are going crazy for a new Zelda or Mario Game. Even I knew the Wii U will sink just like the Wii did. I adored Nintendo as a kid. But sadly Nintendo is still stuck in child land. So many AAA games are coming out in 2014 the Wii U will never see. Sorry if I was the Ceo of Nintendo that would bother me and totally make me rethink how to create a better console. Nintendo has some great Devs. It's time to push out some new IPs. Get some new ideas into the mixture.

Yea many people know MS and Sony grabbed some ideas from Nintendo. And used them with out a second thought. But oh well. Now PS4 and Xbox One is here and everyone is going nuts. Meanwhile Wii U is lagging behind yet again. Even more so.

I like the fact Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft is around. But once again only two of them is pushing the other to do better. Nintendo is sitting there not even caring. When in truth they should.

I could go on and on but I won't it bothers me to see Nintendo not caring, if they are caring it doesn't seem so.

To all Keep Gaming.

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wiiplay
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:02:07 AM

I mean this as an actual question, but what great AAA games are you referring to?

The only AAA nonexclusive game I can think of is Watch Dogs, and that'll be on the Wii U. That is also the only game I am genuinely looking forward to, aside from Mario Kart 8 and Drive Club. (Which are both exclusives)

I must be getting old, but the game industry in 2013 and 2014 hasn't provided me with the same level of entertainment as the years before.
In 2014, I'm just getting two games; Watch Dogs and Mario Kart 8. Any other game purchases will be random, and likely only if they're on sale. The industry is no longer what it used to be. Fun has been replaced by dollars. I don't like that, and if this industry doesn't change soon, I won't be a part of it moving forward. Which is sad, as I've been a game journalist, a professional gamer, and am now a video game developer. In fact, I only became a developer so I could create games that are purely fun and imaginative. None of this big budget crap. Just pure fun with no greed attached. Kinda had a dream to change the industry by creating original ideas, possibly even a brand new gaming genre. Nintendo provides these creative capabilities. While most people are hating on the Wii U, I happen to know first hand just how capable the machine truly is. The developers turned the Wii into a gimmick, and they'll likely do the same with the Wii U. Nintendo is creating consoles intended for video game developers, but the industry has evolved into something else. Something evil and sinister. This industry is now creating entertainment products, with the Xbox One being a prime example of this. Nintendo has always been about the games, which traditionally, were essentially digital toys for ones enjoyment. That is what the video 'game' industry should be. Now? The game industry is is no longer a game industry. It is an interactive entertainment industry.

So, whenever I see someone irrationally hating on Nintendo, I can't help but to facepalm. Nintendo is the only company that still cares about the video game industry. In fact, they rely entirely on the game industry. Microsoft and Sony have nongaming divisions. They make televisions, computers, tablets, and other various forms of technology.
Nintendo is the only company that is actually attempting something different. They popularized motion control, which could have gone in any direction. It's unfortunate that the developers misused the technology, but Nintendo shouldn't be to blame for that.
Now, they're trying to create a second screen experience, which could completely change the way we play video games. So far, developers have misused this technology, turning it into a possible gimmick. However, the technology itself is outstanding, though this is probably the developer in my talking.
Speaking of, the Nintendo 3DS was another device that developers used to turn into a gimmick. The 3D could have completely changed the puzzle gaming genre. Adding multiple dimensions to a puzzle game. Imagine something along the lines of Echochrome, and how 3D could have completely enhanced the general gameplay.

All in all, the Wii U is not a failed device. It is simply a device that most current developers are unable to properly understand, either because they're used to creating entertainment products rather than games, or they're simply interested in the average shooter, and can't imagine anything even remotely creative to do with the technology.

If anything is a useless gimmick, it is the Dual Shock 4 controller. The light bar is unnecessary, and the touchpad has little real world use. There is nothing innovative here, and gaming innovation is provided by the way the player interacts with the game, and not the game console itself.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:09:55 AM

What he said. ^

XD

I'd also like to add that while I am a loyal Sony fan and applaud them for the risks they took with the PSVita, this same PSX post could have been written about it a year ago as it sold even less in a year than what the Wii U is expected to sell. But you won't see that here.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/18/2014 12:13:55 AM

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Knightzane
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:55:47 AM

What's a Vita?
lol but no seriously. Wii u is a console that is supposed to compete against other consoles. Vita is a handheld competing in a very quickly transitioning market. If you were talking about the 3DS then I could agree more, but the 3DS is a complete powerhouse of awesome games while the Vita is bare bones. The wii u is just garbage compared to the 3DS. But once again, the Wii u is a console and not a handheld even though it literally is basically a handheld considering how its used.

What I don't want is for Nintendo to become a cellphone developer because all it would do is kill most of their massive fanbase. And by massive I mean the 3 million who shelled out money for the Wii u in the past year. Their "Ace" for the wii u is Hyrule Warriors. They released another great Zelda game for the 3DS, and are giving the wii u more crap.

Also I agree about the ps4 controller. The touchpad is dumb but I think the light thing is going to make stealth games pretty epic using it.

They need to release some big games in order to win anyone over, because at this point no one's buying a wii u anymore and Nintendo knows that. I do think, instead of them panicking, that they should make better games for the wii u. The mario games look fun, but they look like mario games. Metroid Prime, a New super mario game, Xenoblade 2, Super Smash bros, and mario kart would most likely give the wii u some push, but I don't think by much.

If there's anything thats dumb its trying to fuse handheld with console game time. Sony pushing that is dumb too, but they didn't go to the extreme extent as Ninty did with the wii u.

I don't like disrespecting the grandfather of video games, but I can't fanboy whats obvious. If this was Sony slipping up, I'd be happy to admit it. Defending something based on pride even when you know its wrong doesn't make you a hero. Nintendo nor Sony care about you. You're just a customer paying them for a service. Entertainment, and whether or not you enjoy said entertainment is up to you.

Denying Nintendo's dying console is as bad as the idiots who say the Vita is going to come back. They both had their shot, and its over now.

But really Nintendo, Cellphone games?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:07:21 AM

wiiplay: You completely invalidated everything you said by saying Nintendo is the only company that "still cares about the video game industry."

Based on what? Entirely on your 100% subjective views of what "fun" and "greed" are. You can hide behind the "oh, developers didn't know how to use it" all you want. Then you tell us the touchpad on the DS4 has "little real world use" and pretend that what you're saying is somehow universally true.

Give me a BREAK.

Jawknee: What a pile of crap. I've been one of the single biggest critics of the Vita for the past year, as anyone who actually reads my articles knows. We all know that because of your undying Ninty fandom that you only read the headline and didn't bother with the content.

Furthermore, saying the Vita has sold less than the Wii U in terms of expectations is flat-out false. 9 million Wii Us anticipated; lowered to 2.8 million. No chance in hell Sony had such high expectations for the Vita. None.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:09:29 AM

Obviously the point of my comparison went right over your head.

My point is the Vita is as much a failure(even more so to Ben's standards) as the Wii U yet you won't see him gloating over that as he is here. There is a double standard in the industry directed at Nintendo.

The Wii U is not for everyone. That's obvious. But a piece of garbage it is not. People pick their console of choice for its exclusives. Why should It be any different for Nintendo? It should but there's that double standard again.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:10:54 AM

Knightzane: Yes, what you're seeing here is the power of a decade-old bias. It blinds people so quickly and so easily, they'll spew a bunch of purely subjective nonsense all over the page and actually believe they made some sort of legitimate argument.

While everyone else who hasn't been infected by the aforementioned bias reads it and can't even comprehend how inaccurate it is. Nintendo has people like wiiplay and Jawknee in the palm of their hand; that company could launch a nuclear attack against the US and people like that would find some way to exonerate their precious Nintendo.

I love Nintendo, too. But I can't bring myself to be totally, ridiculously irrational.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:14:06 AM

Ben I searched for an article by you that says the Vita is dying. I couldn't find it. If you have one that carries the same arrogant tone as this one, I'd love to read it.

And I never said anything about projected sales. Company projections are wrong all the time. I 'm simply talking about the Vita's 1.2 millions first year sales vs the a Wii U's 2.9. Both are failures under that definition.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:15:57 AM

Jawknee, I got news for you: Nothing you say goes "over my head." You're not half as smart as you seem to think you are.

You can't even read. Nobody ever said the Wii U was a "piece of crap." I said it would be unsuccessful. I said it when it launched. I was hardly the only one and I was right.

The only "double standard" here is that you keep presenting yourself as an unbiased observer when every single person here has encountered your insane bias towards Nintendo AND Sony. So insane that you don't read anything, call people names, and then pretend that you managed to prove something.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:19:28 AM

Your resulting to petty insults so soon? That's a record I think.

Oh and I never said you said it was a piece of crap. Please point out where I did. My reply about it being "garbage" and the double standard stuff was a reply to Knightzane. So calm down.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:20:16 AM

You also can't find one where I said the Wii U is "dying." Doesn't say it here, either. I said it would be UNSUCCESSFUL and didn't understand why anyone would've thought otherwise.

If you're not going to read the article, don't respond to it. Especially if you have nothing new to say besides the same rhetoric that has never once passed muster.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:21:41 AM

Seriously? Did you forget you posted this on the main page?

"Nintendo is hurting and the Wii U is dying. But did anyone really anticipate another Wii-like explosion? What would lead one to believe that?"

I think an apology is in order.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:22:01 AM

Jawknee, you were the first to imply that I was bashing the Wii U and giving the Vita a pass. Never once have I done that. The implication is a baseless insult to my work here.

As usual, you have no idea how you come across to others when you're out-of-your-mind defending something that in your mind can do no wrong.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:24:09 AM

Wow. Don't even know the purpose of a tagline. I explain quite clearly in the article my stance, which you DID NOT READ.

Yeah, an apology is in order, and don't ever hijack one of my articles again with your agenda.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:31:45 AM

Wait, I thought you didn't say the Wii U was dying? So because it was a tagline, you didn't really mean it?

And what agenda? I disagree with you so I have an agenda? What's funny is I don't even disagree with the notion that the Wii U is doing bad. And I did read the article, I just chose not to dissect it because it's pointless when you're obviously so set in your thinking.

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wiiplay
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 3:13:18 AM

I was trying to determine if I should reply back, given the rather aggressive response from an administrator.

However, I feel as though you're not understanding my reasoning here, Ben. Specifically regarding the DS4 and the touch pad.

I am simply finding it hard to imagine the touch pad being used in any kind of innovative or revolutionary way, at least not one that directly benefits or enhances the gameplay.

The first thing that comes to mind is menu navigation. To be able to swipe your way through the various menu systems, or to make map navigation faster and more intuitive. (AC4 is a good example of this)

The touch pad can also double as a clickable button, but being in such an awkward location, and considering the amount of force required to 'click', it would become an awkward experience to use in combination with the traditional control mechanics.

The touch pad was an unnecessary extra that doesn't provide any current benefits. Same goes for the light bar, not because of the idea of using visual cues, but rather the location of the bar. It isn't easy to see in normal conditions.

As a controller, I believe it is one of the best ever to be created. It feels nice, has an even weight, and is all around responsive. However, Sony wanted to create an experience similar to the Wii U, but felt as though a full touch screen was unnecessary. If I recall, they claimed that a touch screen would be a distraction, and for the most part, they were right. However, I feel as though the light and the touch pad are on equal grounds to the Wii U gamepad, as they (to me) are equally as distracting.

As for my statement regarding Nintendo, and the video game industry? You mistook my opinion as some kind of biased truth. Quite simply, it is nothing more than my opinion, but it is one that I feel strongly about.

The video game industry is no longer the same industry. While the game industry of the 80's and 90's obviously no longer exists today, given the vast differences in technology and consumer trends.
Up until and even some time within the PS3 era of gaming, something changed. Developers started to focus on downloadable content, and while some DLC is well worth the purchase, and was intended to expand the game by a considerable amount, a vast majority of the downloadable content and expansion packs are created with the intention to make as much money as possible. To essentially sell less content, or content that isn't all that significant, yet still charge high rates to access this content. (skin packs, weapon packs, and other 'small' yet insignificant content that is sold for an average price of $1.99 - see Borderlands 2 for an example)
Some developers would include pack-in DLC, which was included on the retail disc itself. This is simply going too far.

Additionally, this last generation created the yearly release cycle of first person shooters, and other genres outside of sports. (Before, sports were updated yearly to ensure that the player rosters were always up to date. Currently, there's no real reason that the rosters cannot be updated through patches)
While releasing a new game each year can be beneficial to the franchise and the continuing story (Assassin's Creed is a good example) most franchises within the first person shooter genre offer little to no new experiences over game iteration, and they also tend to sell additional downloadable content packs that offer little value to the general experience.

The video game industry has become an interactive entertainment industry, and actively promotes the sale of additional content and micro transactions, such as those found within Call of Duty and the latest Gran Turismo title.
While I guess you could debate that both Sony and Microsoft are interested in providing a valuable gaming experience, I simply no longer see the value in the experiences that they are providing.

With Nintendo, when I purchase a game or a game console, I'm not bombarded by advertisements asking me to purchase the latest downloadable content. I simply buy the video game, and play it. I don't have to worry about paying $10 to unlock new modes or features. I make my initial purchase, and that's it. There are no extra charges. I'm not going to feel pressured to buy the latest series of map packs, all because the game itself is incomplete at launch. To me, Nintendo is the only game company left; that is a company which understands the value of a dollar, and won't charge me extra to access unneeded content. (Though Nintendo is now experimenting with downloadable content, they do not currently center their business around the DLC and micro transaction model)

Nintendo focuses on creating new experiences. To innovate the industry by providing new ways to interact with your games. Every Nintendo controller has evolved and innovated in some way or form. From the directional pad to the modern analog stick. Touch screens to motion controls, and now asymmetrical gameplay. Nintendo has been providing the tools to innovative the game industry since the original Nintendo Entertainment System. For the most part, their innovations are widely accepted and expanded upon by other parties.

I'm honestly not sure why people are unable to see the Wii U's potential. The system should be selling far more units, as, with the right games utilizing the right features, the Wii U would easily become one of the best and most unique video game consoles to date. Same can be said for the PlayStation Vita. Unfortunately, the average consumer seems to be uninterested in proper innovation, which both the Wii U and Vita provide. The Vita is a very capable machine, and deserves to have at least 20 million units sold. While I praise the 3DS, especially in regards to the 3DS's potential to enhance the puzzle gaming genre, the Vita is by far the more innovative system, with far more untapped gaming potential. Yet, the 3DS is selling far more, and most developers aren't even utilizing the 3DS in ways that enhance the experience.

Ben, I must express my opinion on this article. While it is obviously factual, and accurate, it doesn't really belong on a PlayStation fan site. If anything, it seems rather distasteful, and your comments further contribute to that.
You're actually belittling your readers by calling them names. I've been using this website since 2008, and have never seen you act so hostile towards those that voice their opinions publicly.
Now, I have nothing against you, or anyone else here. In fact, I greatly enjoy reading your articles, as they are normally quite fun to read, and are almost always informative. However, I just don't believe that this editorial was at all needed.
I am actually viewing this more as a rant, than an actual editorial. You're just too negative, and express your personal opinions in a way that purposely makes Nintendo look bad.
You even went as far as to call the new console a joke. Honestly, writing an informative article with a few opinions is fine, but this was just distasteful. Informative? Sure, but distasteful nonetheless.

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Beamboom
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 8:38:20 AM

Come on Ben. A little humbleness is sometimes in order.
You did say that the Wii U is dying, you're saying so on the very front page. Hell, it's even true. It IS dying.
Also, back when the first signs of failure were starting to show for the Vita you called everyone who pointed that out as just being "haters" and "biased against Sony", you even dedicated an entire editorial on it.

Sometimes, just sometimes a little humbleness is in place. Everything is not a battle.


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/18/2014 8:39:27 AM

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Underdog15
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 9:10:05 AM

I think at the very least it's fair to say the Wii-U was never going to experience a Wii-like explosion. I don't know about dying, but it certainly isn't going to be a strong generation for them.

Nintendo will always and eternally be capable of turning top notch games like Zelda, Mario, and Metroid. I don't think it matters, gimmick or not. They will always be capable of AAA quality for those titles. And the occasional exclusive like Xenoblade doesn't hurt either. I also think those types of games will have a strong following for eternity.

But they have a lot of work to do to regain relevance. Personally, I think the negative overall reception to PS Move and Kinect should have been a sign that the Wii-U should aim for something better than what they came up with. Then again, hindsight is 20/20 and maybe they believed they had the pigeonhold on movement-sensing gimmickry.

Anyways, I don't know how anyone could be offended by this article's ghost arrogance. And Ben, I'm kinda with beam on this one. Not because I think you're necessarily wrong, but because I think it's not worth it to argue with some people. Especially elitists who claim that just because you don't agree with them, you must not have been able to comprehend their argument.

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wambo
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 10:01:11 AM

i totally agree with ben, in my eyes the wii u is an will be very unsuccessful an they really do need to change there long term stragedy to survive, especially as the ps4 an xbox one are wiping the floor with it sales wise.

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bigrailer19
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 10:54:42 AM

The article was fine (unless you love Nintendo) until Ben slipped in a few words about the 3DS. It totally came off as a jab to Nintendo. It was completely unnecessary and provided nothing for the article because it was about the WiiU. Mentioning the 3DS makes it about Nintendo. And to go on to say that mario, Zelda and the likes won't keep the systems around forever, is low too as it certainly appears that's exactly what's helping the WiiU out.

Nintendo has top notch games that gamers and the industry love to play and Nintendo will always have those regardless of the system.


Last edited by bigrailer19 on 1/18/2014 10:59:27 AM

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Killa Tequilla
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 11:09:45 AM

If Nintendo hadn't cut the price of the 3DS and gave away a bunch of free games, I do believe that the PSVita would of sold more and probably dominated the 3DS. The initial sales can sometimes be the difference between life and death. That and the overpriced Memory Cards. That was a sucker punch to Sony right in the chin..

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Temjin001
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:03:16 PM

yah, nintendo has proven they can be a profitable and well-to-do business with most of their revenue riding on the backs of their well respected and established franchises and their vision for family entertainment. It wasn't until the last 2-3 years where they began to struggle financially. Which can be directly attributed to the Wii U itself, and the initial sluggish beginnings of the 3Ds.
So really, it's been proven they can do it pretty much alone, with the occasional enticing support titles like Xeno stuff, Last Story, Bayonetta 2 (will probably flop but I'm enticed =p ) and a handful of other third party developed content, like from SEGA. They still have a long long way to go before hitting the bottom and they can withstand this mishap just fine.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:12:50 PM

Beamboom: I've spent the last six months taking so many jabs at the Vita that people keep telling me I shouldn't work for a Sony-oriented site. So, what...just missed all that?

I also wrote several pieces explaining why Nintendo has done great things. I said it in this one, too. It is NOT my fault if everyone decides to gloss over the facts to prove something that isn't true.

There's a difference between humbleness and taking a stand when people are dead flat wrong.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:13:57 PM

wiiplay: Sorry, all of that is entirely subjective. All of it. That's your stance and that's fine, but you can't try to prove facts when you're not actually utilizing anything but opinion.

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Xombito
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:58:38 PM

In defense of the touchpad on the duel shock 4 I believe Sony added on there as a means of offering more imput commands from a controller. If you played Killzone and Watframe you would see it can be useful. I'd also argue it's much more intuitive to use since I'm not removing my hand off the controller to touch the pad/screen.

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wiiplay
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 4:06:23 PM

Ben, I never tried to pass it on as fact, aside from the below quote, which is an actual statement made by Sony themselves.(Which you yourself reported on)

" However, Sony wanted to create an experience similar to the Wii U, but felt as though a full touch screen was unnecessary. If I recall, they claimed that a touch screen would be a distraction".

Also, just for reference, here is the official quote from Sony.

“A touchscreen was another idea that we had. We actually tested it, but [besides cost factors], our game teams felt like having to look down at the controller is not what they want to do. They want to have the consumers concentrated on the big picture that they show [on the TV].”
Source: http://www.psxextreme.com/ps4-news/754.html


If you check my wording, I specifically used phrases such as "personally, I" and "I believe". This is essentially the same thing as stating an opinion, though it's an educated opinion at that.

Additionally, it actually isn't as subjective as you would like to believe, and I made some logical references to the way that the industry currently operates. You can't deny that there is an increasingly heavy focus on the micro transaction model. This model enhances the profitability of a single product far beyond what it would normally be capable of making with the traditional buy and play model. Personally, this represents a larger interest in making as much money as possible, which is the definition of greed. (Greed: to selfishly want more, and more)

Also, my opinion regarding the DS4? While I still strongly believe that the controller is among the best ever made, if you were to hold it normally, the light bar is barely visible. If it were easily visible during normal gameplay, that is to essentially hold the controller in your hand, so the analog sticks are facing upwards at a slight angle, normally pointing just above the players forehead, the view of the light bar is obstructed by the curve of the touch pad. If there was nothing obstructing my view, the light would serve a proper purpose.
If you believe this to be a mere personal opinion, please go ahead and hold the DS4, and attempt to play a single player session of Killzone Shadow Fall.
Chances are, you will be unable to visibly see the light change in color, due to the curved design of the controller itself. (Though you may see it reflect off of your television, or possibly your fingers that are constantly hovering over L2 and R2)

Also, I do feel as though I should apologize for my earlier comment, stating that I was tired of reading these types of articles.
Honestly, this comment wasn't intended exclusively for PSXE, but rather game sites in general. Still, what I said is true, as I do rather dislike reading these types of articles. I also dislike reading articles about the Xbox One and the NSA. It seems as though every news site has at least one article about how the Wii U is a failure, and how the Xbox spies on you. What annoys me the most is when articles suggest Nintendo get out of the console business, and become a third party developer / publisher.
First article I read? Fine. Second? Sure, no problem. However, pretty much all of these articles are identical in content, and it's just too damn repetitive for me. I feel like I am reading the same article on multiple websites, normally starting the same source. (90% of the time it's a supposed professional analyst, which almost always happens to be Michael Pachter)

I'm not trying to insult you or your journalistic integrity, Ben. I'm just at a loss as to why you would even bother writing an article like this in the first place, on a website intended for PlayStation news.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 5:43:16 PM

wiiplay: The problem is that there's no way to support the statement: "Nintendo is the only company who actually cares about the video game industry."

Not only can't you prove it, I seriously doubt it's even remotely close to true. When you make statements like that, there are implications and insinuations which follow, and I have an issue with all of them.

Your love of Nintendo and of gaming is admirable. It's great to see someone so emotionally invested in something they love. You just have to realize that when you make such statements, it comes across as being, well...a little narrow-minded. It basically says Sony and Microsoft only hurt the industry now because they don't care about it.

You don't actually believe that, do you?

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wiiplay
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 6:35:30 PM

Ben, when I imagine a traditional video game console, I imagine a console that primarily focuses on the gaming experiences, rather than other forms of digital entertainment, such as film and music.
The Xbox One, for example. I do not consider it to be a video game console, but rather an entertainment and media hub, that happens to support gaming on the side.
Though, the PlayStation 4 is currently focusing primarily on the gaming experience, which is a pleasant thing to see given this media rich day and age, I still can't help but to imagine the PS4 as being a multimedia hub. Well, more like a stepping stone that sits somewhere between the media heavy One, and the game focused Wii U. This was a very good decision by Sony, and they appear to be prioritizing the game aspect, while also offering the same general media features on the side, but making them optional and less apparent to the consumers.

Even still, my opinion about Nintendo goes beyond that. They are the only significant company within the video game industry that relies entirely on the production of video game consoles and video game sales. They do not have any other significant source of revenue, which is why I referenced them as being the only game company left in existence.
That isn't to say that Sony or Microsoft are having any kind of negative impact on the game industry, though they have been making great strides to expand the general profitability of the video game industry, which can be considered a good thing, as well as a bad thing. (Depends on how you look at it)
For me personally, I feel as though we've gone too far. I'm fine with downloadable content, but prefer to see micro transactions phased out.

So, hopefully that's perceived as a logical and understandable response. Know that I am not a Nintendo fanboy, even though I do have huge respect for the company. The fact that something like Nintendo, a company known for creating what are essentially digital toys, is even remotely capable of competing directly with two of the largest companies in the world, is truly astonishing. Heck, it's beyond impressive, and we're unlikely to ever see such a rivalry again in our lifetime, from any industry. (it would be like a toy store competing against WalMart, and making more profit)

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Beamboom
Sunday, January 19, 2014 @ 4:02:27 AM

Wiiplay,
I don't agree with all you say but I think I see your point of view.
And I do enjoy reading your posts. I just wanted to say that. I am very happy that there are such elaborate and well expressed guys as you hanging out here. One can become a bit tired of the hard-headed, fully fuelled three liner commentators at times. No names mentioned, no new fuel ignited. :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/19/2014 4:08:34 AM

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wiiplay
Sunday, January 19, 2014 @ 1:19:17 PM

@Beamboom, I've been hanging around since 2008, but fairly rarely comment.
I'm honestly surprised to see so many familiar faces still around. You, World, Jawknee.Haven't seen Highlander for awhile.
I'm sure none of these old timers remember me, though.

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Underdog15
Monday, January 20, 2014 @ 2:24:50 PM

Highlander disappeared after Sony didn't make the PS4 the way he wanted them to, I think.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:07:31 PM
Reply

I'll be honest and say that I didn't know it would be so dismal even after the E3 presentation. Why? Because Wii SHOULDN'T have been as popular as it was, even as a gimmicky gadget. It broke all the rules, so I wasn't ready to say that those crazy people wouldn't rush out and buy the next one.

Well now Ninty knows how Sega felt with the Dreamcast. The fact that Wii sold so well means they have a nest egg to survive on but yeah they need to do something totally new. If they want any ideas I'll be in my office.

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Bonampak
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:43:32 AM

You make it sound as if Nintendo never experienced failure before. Say hello to the Virtual Boy! ;)

Plus finishing dead last with the N64 and Gamecube had to be something quite humbling for them,I'm sure.

The thing to consider at the moment though, among all the doom and gloom predictions being made left and right, is that Nintendo has over 18 billion dollars in the bank. That's more than enough money for the company to still stay in business for nearly 40 more years.

So they can actually afford to go through several Wii U disasters for several more generations before that money runs out. And that's with them not making any more money from their handheld division (3DS and beyond) or their legacy library of games (which is rumored to be made available on mobiles in the near future, according to what Ninty President said recently).

So the reason Nintendo is even in panic mode, is because they're trying to save the sinking ship that is the Wii U. Not because they themselves are going under. Nintendo will survive this.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:00:08 PM

To be fair Virtual Boy wasn't the flagship, but one could draw some comparisons to Gamecube.

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richfiles
Sunday, January 19, 2014 @ 3:20:10 PM

@Bonampak

Nintendo did not finish dead last in the N64 era... Sega did...
Sega finished so badly you don't even remember the Saturn! XD

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Jawknee
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:10:40 PM
Reply

Oh yay, another "Nintendo is doomed and they suck" article on PSX.

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wiiplay
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:18:42 PM

Yeah, I'm getting tired of these.
I come here for PlayStation news, not Xbox or Nintendo.

Ben, I like that you're covering all aspects of the industry, but do you mind keeping your articles on topic with the site?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:29:59 PM

Sony do what Nintendogs don't!

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Xombito
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:33:59 PM

I think the Wii U bombed simply because hardly any notable games were released for it. I honestly don't think the Wii U was built on the same gimmicks as the Wii. Touchscreen on a gamepad isn't that bad of an idea. But Nintendo had a whole year to dump great games on the system but failed to do so. Why couldn't they hire more second party devs? Why do they take so long to release AAA first party games? I do think Nintendo is lost when the market around them is changing.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:40:11 PM

Yeah, why DO they take so long to make a game like Zelda? Any other dev would have that biatch out the door in 2 years.

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Jawknee
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:45:50 PM

Because they have one producer and focus on quality over quantity. Which proves to work as Zelda is a critical success time and time again. Not to mention they have to make Zelda games for two platforms. So they really don't take that long. It just seems that way because they divide their releases between their home consoles and handhelds.

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Killa Tequilla
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:16:37 AM

Just don't click the article?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:07:51 AM

Oh yay, another predictable "I'm right and everyone else is wrong when it comes to Nintendo" post by Jawknee.

wiiplay: Tired of "these?" Yeah? Let me see...over 10,000 articles with my name on it in recent years......hmm....I see maybe 5 with Nintendo in the title. Three of which are DEFENDING the company.

The exaggeration of the century and a crappy memory, huh?

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/18/2014 1:12:14 AM

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:11:09 AM

Lol! Ooooh you got me there Ben. Point where in my post you replied to I said everyone was wrong. Oh yea I didn't.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:16:50 AM

The part where you never concede a single solitary point about anything, defend Nintendo's every move, and then act like everyone else is just an idiot and doesn't "understand" what Nintendo is "all about."

That part.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/18/2014 1:17:16 AM

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:20:25 AM

Copy and paste where I've don't any of that in this thread. I'll wait...seems you're projecting my friend.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:22:46 AM

You want me to copy and paste where you don't concede a single point about Nintendo screwing up?

What, do I just copy and paste every post of yours?

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:23:39 AM

You accused me of acting like everyone here is an idiot. Where?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:25:05 AM

You acted like I was an idiot in the first post. And again and again.

You honestly can't see it? Either way, I don't really care...just knock it the hell off. I'm tired of you. Do you have ANYTHING to say that actually involves the article? Anything besides, "oh, the Vita failed too but Ben's all biased so he only bashes the Wii U"...?

No? Then be quiet.

P.S. Never mind, don't bother to post a book. I don't have time to mess around with this anymore.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/18/2014 1:30:23 AM

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Killa Tequilla
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 11:12:20 AM

Ben, you need to tone it down a little on your vocabulary or use different wording. I don't want to have to spank you.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:01:48 PM

Okay but there are other high quality games that take much more development resources and are a great deal more technologically advanced than Zelda and come out faster. It doesn't add up.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:42:25 PM

How so? They have one team and one producer. They work on Zelda games for multiple platforms so they don't really take all that long between Zelda releases. They had 4 last gen. Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks and Skyward Sword. All were released with a 2 year window of each other. Skyward Sword released in Nov. 2011, A Link Between Worlds in Nov. 2013. I'm assuming the Wii U Zelda will drop in Nov. 2015. Their development time between each of these games is no longer than say Uncharted or God of War. Not to mention they usually rebuild each Zelda game from the ground up. Each features new gameplay elements, graphics and art directions where Uncharted is simply built off the previous installment.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/18/2014 1:48:22 PM

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karneli lll
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:45:42 PM

I admire the whole "captain goes down with his ship" determination but honestly jawknee and wiiplay...take a chill pill, you're acting like xbots.

Ben, don't take it personally. They want you to blow up.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:50:24 PM

I guess I'm only thinking of the Ninty games I actually hear about, the main entries on the console, which aren't particularly advanced in the first place. If the reason is that they have 12 people working on all the games then I understand.

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Temjin001
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:29:21 PM
Reply

The Wii was a fad. I can't applaud them for that though. Sorry, they inspired MS to destroy most of my interest in Xbox. I also don't quite see the Wii's success in that it was recognized as gadget. No, it's identity was loud and clear as a game machine, not a multipurpose all-in-one wonder of gadgets. Yes it had a very user-friendly interface marketable to the mainstream. I observed this during my days working in an arcade for a few years. The games that had zapper guns, steering wheels, and dance pads always performed better than the joystick and button games, and no one ever referred to those as gadget games. There's an intrinsic appeal to the mainstream when it comes to intuitive interfaces and gaming. But anyway, I don't really care about arguing that point of perspective.

My interest is what should Nintendo do from here. Iwata commented that he knows they need to make price cuts. But with the Wii U they've painted themselves into a corner. The hardware doesn't make any allowances for price cuts without taking a big loss. So he believes that making software price cuts would be a more attractive move to persuade confidence in investors. I say no. This isn't a good move. Nintendo is prepping up a lot of first party titles. Many of which can be expected to move several million copies a piece, amongst the core anyway. And it's the core that owns Wii U's. To say slash $10-15 across every Nintendo published piece of software is totally backwards. They'd lose 10's of millions of revenue in that move alone. But to say, slash the Wii U's price to $250 and double their base, they would incur a loss of $20 million. But assuredly by expanding their base they could recoup more in longer term profits with currently priced software.
From here on out for Wii U it's all about minimizing the losses. The Wii U is a financial failure for Nintendo unless something unseen of in video game history happens. Get this. The Wii U's sales are actually slowing. Meaning the system isn't gaining any momentum. It's in reverse. An exit strategy needs to be part of their plan. Not to pull the plug on the console. Because that would create a very bad PR image, but to shift resources to the next big thing.
I say Nintendo needs to unify their handheld space with the living room. The time is perfect for such a move. Phones and tablets have brought exponential advances in low voltage processing. In 3 years time Nintendo could market a handheld device for $250 that doubles as a home console and as a portable. Much like say, the PS TV and Vita. If marketed right I think that could be a big success and eventual turn around for Nintendo. The tech is there. They just need procure it, prepare for it with software, and market it with a clear and concise message.

EDIT: anyway, I forgot to mention. Profits in a console business is similar to fast food. Profits are in the fries and drinks, not the burgers. Slashing software prices across the board will not be a longer term plan for success. The idea here is to minimize losses this round before moving onto the next.


Last edited by Temjin001 on 1/17/2014 11:35:19 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, January 17, 2014 @ 11:41:24 PM

Good points, but how do they regain the customers outside of their base?

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Temjin001
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:15:29 AM

I think families and mainstream want to like and want to own Nintendo's family of product. I see the Wii U as being priced out of their target market. We observed this with the 3Ds. The 3Ds had a rocky start with plenty of gloom and doom articles. But once nintendo agressively slashed it's price and increased it's library of software it turned around for them. In fact it's miraculous how it turned around for them. I think Nintendo tried shifting a $200-250 console buy in market to $300-$350 one and they placed themselves in direct competition with Sony and MS by doing so.

The games are there for the WIi U. The games that have moved their consoles in the past anyway. I see nothing about the 3Ds that looks more or less appealing, software wise, than what I see on the Wii U right now, or with what's been shown and announced for it already.
I see the 4GB 360's and the Kinect and stuff like Kindle Fire HD's (only $129) as legitimate competition for that type of market. All are lower cost than a Wii U. Nintendo needs to get themselves where their market wants them to be. Once they do that they'll be in better shape. The question is, can they do that with the Wii U? sounds like they can't make any price cutting move without getting backhanded for it. The Wii U was just a bad product to market from the start for that company.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 1/18/2014 12:16:56 AM

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Wrote
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:27:49 AM
Reply

I'm sure a lot of people like me are waiting for the big Zelda game. Seriously! Why have they not showed us anything on it! I expect a Mario land bundle for 250 will be the sweet spot for me. Also I can't go without that new X game from Monolith Soft. Need that game.

So if people are like me, they're just waiting for the right time to nab one.

Last edited by Wrote on 1/18/2014 12:30:43 AM

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:52:25 AM

They're gonna show it at this years E3. They wanted to show it last year but were worried it would take focus away from the games that are closer to being released.

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ProfPlayStation
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:49:18 AM
Reply

It all comes down to one thing: Nintendo is out of touch with their customers.

They have an aging management structure with their own ideas about what a console should be, more focused on fan noise and being unobtrusive to mom and dad than on the technology. They make consoles for themselves first, and everyone else is an afterthought, providing terrible development tools and assistance. This time, even Nintendo doesn't seem to know what to do with their gamepad innovation. Nintendoland only highlighted its total lack of necessity. And, as we've seen since the N64, they refuse to admit when they're wrong, only digging their heels in further.

Search "The Secret Developers: Wii U - the inside story" for a very enlightening read. - Super quote: "At some point in this conversation we were informed that it was no good referencing Live and PSN as nobody in [Nintendo's] development teams used those systems (!) so could we provide more detailed explanations for them?"

More and more, Nintendo consoles are becoming a destination that exists for the sole purpose of releasing Nintendo games. Is anyone, besides Platinum, even making anything on the Wii U, still? Wii U just seems more irrelevant to the gaming industry with each passing month.

I know it's the last thing Nintendo ever wants to do, but they should start making their console games for the other guys. There are a couple [Nintendo] games coming to Wii U that I'd love to play, but there's no way I could see myself purchasing that hardware for years.

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Xombito
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:51:48 PM

According to that article they are also out of touch with developers.

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Brighat
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:51:56 AM
Reply

I saw that sad commercial Nintendo put up on their site a few weeks ago. They felt they needed to explain to their Wii fanbase that the Wii U was an all new system. A few years ago, Satoru Iwata and Reggie Fils-Aime were hailed as geniuses. Now, they are on the way to unemployment.

I'd love to buy a Wii U to play Super Mario 3D World but for what other reason would I buy one? To play versions of games that are worse than the PS3/Xbox 360 versions? To overpay on peripherals? There's very little on the machine I would want to play at this time.

At some point, I would like to buy one and that would be when there's plenty of good software. Right now, the cupboard is bare and paying $340 CAN just isn't worth it. Also, not much is coming out in the first half of the year.

I will say Nintendo found an attractive family for their commercial. Imagine people acting like it's 1985 but they are in a 2013 world. I like the face the girl makes when she has finished her workout. I also wonder what happened to those two goofballs who Nintendo showed on Wii streams playing Nintendo Wii games? They were entertaining to watch when I took a break.

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Bonampak
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:53:40 AM

As it has always been, you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games. Not to play multiplatform games. Because for that, you stick with Sony or MS (or even PC).

As long as Nintendo games remain exclusive to Nintendo consoles, that's going to be pretty much the only reason one would buy a Nintendo console. Aside from the rare 3rd party gem.

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ethird1
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:15:47 AM
Reply

The ONLY reason the Wii was successful in the first place is because Sony was stupid by selling a game system for 600 bucks.

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Delsin Rowe
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:22:16 AM

Yeah that was some of it. But a lot of people I know bought it mainly for things like Netflix and the gimmicky wand sports games.

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Kryten1029a
Sunday, January 19, 2014 @ 4:55:12 PM

The promotional campaign for the Wii was brilliant. They managed to pitch it in such a way as to appeal to people who weren't gamers but it didn't make gamers out of many of them. Michael Pachter once put the attach rate(number of games sold per console) at 1.5! What that means is that millions of people who bought the Wii because it was the hot, new thing never put any disc into the console besides Wii Sports.
Nintendo expected them to buy the new console but they weren't Nintendo fans; they came for the Wii and that was it. I didn't expect them to beat Sony or Microsoft this gen but I thought that they'd do better than they have. The Wii U's biggest issue is that it has a perception problem. Nintendo didn't do a good job selling the console and when you have to have to advertise that this is a separate console and not just an add-on for the Wii then you're going to have a hard time swimming against the current.
I'm disappointed with them for the attitude towards copyright that they've demonstrated by going against Let's Plays and critics on Youtube but I hate to see them struggling. I remember the videogame crash of 1983 and I'll always be grateful to Nintendo for demonstrating the U.S. was still a viable market for videogames. I'm grateful but I can't ignore the truth.
They have a devoted fanbase but no real draw for anyone outside of that. Unless they're willing to write checks to cover the costs for third-party development and pay for ports of multi-platform titles then that's not likely to change. The Gamecube demonstrated that a small market doesn't have to be an unprofitable one if the customers are enthusiastic enough but unless something radical happens that small market might be what they're left with.

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PC_Max
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:18:13 AM
Reply

Umm no. Nuf said.

Keep playing!

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Delsin Rowe
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:21:19 AM
Reply

It's because the Wii U sucks. It literally does collect dust in my house other than the rare time one of my kids pick it up for 10 minutes. Impulse buy and waste of money on my part.

Same with the Vita. I bought one in order to take advantage of the Remote Play functionality and all it does is drop connection every few minutes and that's right upstairs above where the PS4 is.

It's funny, I have a Wii (that I only ever use for Netflix and Hulu) and also said Wii U and my youngest passes up both of them to play EyePet on the PS3. Tells you all you need to know right there.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:27:49 AM

Careful! Ninty fanboys in the house...saying ANYTHING of theirs "sucks" makes them see red... Because of course, it's not true!

Remote Play has unfortunately sucked from the get-go. Never understood that appeal in the first place, even if it did work.

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Beamboom
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 10:43:30 AM

Delsin;
If your connection drops I don't think it is fair to blame the Vita for that. A drop of connection very rarely has anything to do with the connected device, but rather the quality of the signal.

A live stream requires much better quality connection than for example browsing the internet or downloading mails. So even if other network activity seem to work just fine on that floor it doesn't mean it's good enough for transmitting a steady stream of large chunks of data.


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/18/2014 10:45:08 AM

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Killa Tequilla
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 11:04:31 AM

What beamboom said. The PSVita remote play is extremely good. It is almost flawless. Check your connection.

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Temjin001
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:05:33 PM

I second the remote play thing, so as long as it's on a local network. It's a very nice feature, and making it a standard offering apart of the PS4 and Vita, coupled with Vita's appropriate control interface, makes it a winner. But doing remote play through the net has been miserable in my experience.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 1/18/2014 12:06:38 PM

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wiiplay
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 4:38:26 PM

I've actually had little problem using remote play over the internet, though I wouldn't want to make a habbit of it.

My main gripe is with the Vita itself, and the virtual button orientation. I can't even count the number of times I accidently threw a grenade in Battlefield 4, all because I touched a part of the touchpad assigned to the grenade button. (R1 or L1, can't remember which)

For shooters, or games that rely on the trigger buttons, remote play isn't a viable option. It's too cumbersome to work properly.
Though, remote play works amazingly well with Resogun and Contrast. I also suspect that it'll work fairly well with Drive Club, as you're more aware of the controls, and their intended functions. Accidently accelerating or braking will be an annoyance, but not a game breaking function.

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Amnesiac
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:13:23 AM
Reply

I bought a PSP GO because of Remote Play.
I was a fool who was swindled by Sony and their false advertising committee. My reason was simple so I could stream movies and music from my system to my PSP while at work.
After long wasteful hours of reading forum after forum I called Sony customer service and was told flat out that I was mislead.

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Amnesiac
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:26:45 AM

This pertains to the article:

Nintendo's approach to the current market is going down a road that I feel is similar to Blockbuster video.
Adapt or die
innovate or die
Blockbuster should have EMBRACED change and pioneered what eventually became Netflix instead of relying on OUTDATED business models and eventually getting passed over by new advancing technologies.

Nintendo is stubborn. They are in an Echo chamber and refuse to listen to the consumers or their loyal fanbase.
The tidal wave is coming Nintendo...





Last edited by Amnesiac on 1/18/2014 2:28:31 AM

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___________
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:14:55 AM
Reply

of course people are surprised, they have been anti technology, and churn out the same sh*t for the past few decades, and it flies off the shelves!
its worked the past few deccades, so why not now?
why has it taken all this time for people to wake up and finally smell the coffee?
the fact that ninty seriously underestimated the requirements of next gen game development, hell even iwata said that himself, they had to take people off development to help get the wiiu out on time and that caused delays in games.
hell look at the amount of FW features which were suppose to be available on launch which missed, same thing thats now happening with ps4 and xbox one.
wiius suffering because they brought a next gen system which is only slightly more powerful than the last, and really does not add any advancements.
wow a tablet controller, thats SOOOOOOOOOO amazing!
had the wiiu done what the wii did, bring in a new amazing way to play games like the wii did, it would of been fine.
or if it had just gotten rid of nintys obsessive hatred of technology and given us a true next gen system, it would of done even better!
hell ive been having allot of trouble with my net lately so i had someone from telstra here today and he said to me WTF are you using WEP?
oh because the wiiu does not support anything else, he didnt believe me i had to show him the emails between me and ninty support he was so astonished a 2012 device does not support a standard which became standard YEARS ago!
ninty seriously needs to drop the wiiu, say ok sorry we f*cked up, and give people a TRUE next gen system!
either that, or shut up shop and let your studios flourish properly by turning it into third party software instead of restricting your artists to the gramaphone!

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EMax
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 6:48:26 AM
Reply

I'm not sure what's going on here. I normally refrain from commenting because we normally have really great discussions. Different people with different views, positions etc.
Still though, we should keep the respect guys.

Last edited by EMax on 1/18/2014 6:49:15 AM

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stealth
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 7:29:00 AM
Reply

A playstation site really?

They have no right to say anything considering Vita is selling worse globally than Wii U ever did
and PS3 sold 50 million + less than ps2.

Sony is in a much worse positio than Nintendo.

Last edited by stealth on 1/18/2014 7:29:39 AM

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Underdog15
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 9:17:16 AM

"They have no right to say anything considering Vita is selling worse globally than Wii U ever did"

The opposite is true, actually.

If you're going to compare consoles to handhelds, then it would also be fair to remind you that the Vita is outselling the Wii-U. It's important to get your facts straight. Vita is at 7.3 million to the Wii-U's 5.3 million. Personally, I don't see either as a failure. Just not industry leaders.

Just food for thought. I'm not sure Sony is in a worse spot. Seems to me Nintendo has a hold on the handheld markets while Sony is taking the console world by storm.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/18/2014 9:20:17 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 12:02:30 PM

If it helps you Ben also recently asked on Facebook if Wii U or Vita would tank first?

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stealth
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 7:30:29 AM
Reply

"Even the 3DS is slipping."

No, no its not, its still selling 10+ million more than the next best thing on the market.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:15:40 PM

Trimmed expectations from Nintendo for the 3DS.

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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 8:01:51 AM
Reply

I for one invested in a Wii-U, I see it as a great secondary console to the PS4. It has a lot of unique games going for it that will never appear on PS4 or Xbox - Which long on a basic level are a bit to similar this generation coming.

It's still early days yet, in 2014 we have games like MarioKart & Smash Brothers appearing for the system. However what I am looking forward to is Xenoblade 2... it is single-handedly the reason I bought the console. The first game on Wii being my favourite game this gen by a long short, even if it was on limited hardware the game itself was huge in scope and delivered everything I wanted from a JRPG which the PS3 did not deliver on for me.

Also, another bonus is backwards compatibility, I can play my Wii games with no issues and it is wonderful - i still have a lot of resentment for Sony removing the PS2 backwards compatibility as I can no long play my PS2 games on a HDTV. I still have many Wii games to play through so the feature is an important one.

The Wii-U cannot compete with the PS4 or Xbox, that is obvious and third party developers which are rarely exclusive these days will no doubt choose the other two similar more powerful consoles over the Wii-U. But having the Wii-U as the alternative console is very appealing and it fits in well being in 2nd place in my household.

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Ninja_WafflesXD
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 8:40:30 AM
Reply

Poor Wii U! Seems doom and gloom articles are all about the place...

But it's to be expected. Less than 4 million? That's pretty abysmal.
But I'm not that worried, because what big-name exclusives have dropped for the Wii U yet?
People are still waiting for the new SSB to drop, and then the new Zelda...Which we know nothing about.

I'd say when the actual AAA software hits, then sales will pick up. (Out of my entire class, which is full of "gamers" btw, on me and 2 other people own a Wii U - yet, everybody's excited about who's next revealed for the new SSB *shrugs*).
I mean, you buy a Nintendo console for THEIR exclusives. Anyone buying it for any other reason would have to be a bit...misguided I'd say!

And just wondering how people can see the Wii U as a rehash of the Wii - which relied on "gimmicky" motion controls vs. the asymmetrical gameplay that the Wii U offers.
And also an easy thing to overlook, but being able to play your games on the gamepad while someone else watches TV, is more satisfying than I thought it would be!

(On a side-note, where's my Metroid Nintendo?!)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 1:50:45 PM

Another franchise they just take too long making new entries for.

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Bonampak
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 4:41:38 PM

@Ninja_WafflesXD - Actually Nintendo has sold well beyond 4.5 million units, not less than 4 million like Ben said.

Ben probably saw the 3.9 million number at Nintendo's site. But that number only covers how many systems were sold up until September 30th, 2013. It doesn't include the numbers they made in November and during the holiday season.

Even at 5 million units sold, that's way below their 9 million sales target.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:26:25 PM
Reply

I'm going to explain this one last time:

When someone says something retarded like, "oh, another one of 'these' articles," it pisses me off. The percentage of 'these' articles, mathematically, is about .02%, if that. Thousands upon thousands of articles, editorials, features, etc., and if there are even two or three about something people don't like, they somehow imagine that that's the only thing I write. It happened with Final Fantasy (yeah, ONE editorial about that in 2013...ONE, because people freak if I do more) and it's happening with Nintendo.

I get the pyschology of it. If a particular subject affects you strongly, you remember that and blot out all the other ones you didn't bother with. It's how memory works. It's why, if you get stuck in a traffic jam for two hours and it's 85 degrees outside; a few years later, that becomes five hours and 105 degrees outside. You might actually believe it, too. It's how memory operates.

Doesn't make you right. In EVERY SINGLE news article related to the Vita for basically the past eight months, I've said Sony needs to do something because the portable is sliding badly. I've called them out dozens - yes, dozens - of times. I've asked on Facebook and Twitter many times, "how long do we think the Vita will last?"

It is not my responsibility that everyone reads everything. It is, however, THEIR responsibility to be knowledgeable of what I write if they're going to make claims ABOUT what I write. The past ENTIRE GENERATION, I think there were maybe four or five articles pertaining to Nintendo, THREE of which were praising them for what they did with the Wii.

These are facts. I'm not annoyed if someone wants to imagine that Nintendo never makes any mistakes (and the fanboys obviously believe that). Go right ahead if that's your belief. I DO get annoyed when they make false claims on my work and then pretend I'm the bad guy for proving them wrong.

Got it?

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/18/2014 2:27:08 PM

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Killa Tequilla
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 4:21:38 PM

Yes, Ben, I got it. Everything above could of been avoided if you changed your tone a little bit, or written something similar to what I'm replying. There was no need to be aggressive, even though I understand how it would feel to receive feedback such as, "oh, another one of these articles". I was THIS close to removing my belt to try and control you a little bit better. A spanking goes a long way.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 5:45:13 PM

None of it would've been "avoided" because I didn't start any of it. Everyone could've done the requisite research about my work here, NOT made baseless claims about it, and I would've said nothing.

How is that anything but common sense?

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 6:10:17 PM

When you write something as silly as the "Wii u is dying" in your tagline then follow with one of the most self aggrandizing editorials I've ever read on the subject, disclaimers or not, expect push back Ben. My point in bringing up the Vita was that you would never see this kind of vitriol directed towards it from you. Yes you've been critical of the Vita, but never once have you written an almost gleeful, pat on the back post about its obvious failure. The Wii U has sold just as many units in half the time but it's singled out by you while you make excuses for the Vita. As Beam pointed out, you called people haters when they point out its obvious flaws. But when it comes to those of us who see things differently in regards to Nintendo, were all just a bunch of stupid fanboys who have no business defending a company we enjoy. That's bias Ben.

I never once claimed to be an "objective observer". Of course I'm biased but that doesn't stop me from admitting the obvious. Of course I concede the Wii U isn't selling what I'd like to see or Nintendo would like to see. It's not even close. I've been clear from day one it wouldn't carry the weight the Wii did. But you ignore all that so you can continue to project your anger and bitterness onto me while accusing me of belittling other people as you do exactly that to me.

Time to grow some thicker skin. No one is questioning your body of work. I am however questioning your stubborn inability to admit your bias when it's clearly there.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/18/2014 6:23:23 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 6:17:30 PM

Jawknee, you're arguably the most biased poster here, so you hardly have a leg to stand on. You didn't question my body of work? No? What was that jab at the end of the very first post? Besides being grossly inaccurate, which you won't even admit...?

That's the problem, my friend. You can't ever admit when you might be wrong. Never once have you even accepted the possibility that you could be wrong about something. That's not a debate. That's you browbeating everyone into your way of thinking and if they don't agree, shove off.

The article explains why I said the Wii U wouldn't succeed from the get-go. I was right. I'm obviously right. I have the same reasons then as I do now. Of course, all you can do is just go "oh, you're biased" and imagine that you've won an argument.

You've yet to even address the points in the article. Not once. And why? We know why...nobody can say anything against your precious Nintendo or you freak out, as you did. I said I love Nintendo; obviously, I'm lying, because if I had a bias, I couldn't say that. Unless, of course, you just believe some things I write to satisfy your agenda, and completely ignore other things I write.

Oh wait, you DO do that.

Hey, Jawknee, is Nintendo at all to blame for the Wii U's crap-ass performance? No, of course not. It's the developer's fault. Give me a BREAK.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/18/2014 6:22:12 PM

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Beamboom
Sunday, January 19, 2014 @ 3:42:56 AM

Killa is correct here, Ben. And there have been numerous attempts to tell you this before: It's the tone of your posts that is the entire problem, not the message itself. It's not *what* you say, it's *how* you say it.

But you've never understood this. After all these years with your blow-ups accumulating hundreds of down-thumbs, you still don't seem to realize why.

As soon as you get annoyed by something you turn into a teenager with a testosterone level totally off the charts. It's not a question of "who started it", Ben. It's up to you how to end it. And when you in all your furious anger do mistakes you still can't ever admit it but just keep on rolling at full steam.

I remember a while back on the psxe forums when the topic was "Sony fanboys" on the main site, you asked everyone to just "let fans be fans".

I'd like to forward that same advice to you.
Just like the Sony fanboys will rage whenever they see a critical article about Sony, claiming "media bias" and whatnot, let the Nintendo fanboys keep their adoration for a sinking ship by themselves. Let them defend it. Let them even get annoyed by this repeated message we see all over the gaming media these days.

Their toes are sore now, just like the Sony fans toes were really sore during the first half of the PS3 period.


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/19/2014 3:57:15 AM

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Masszt3r
Sunday, January 19, 2014 @ 6:02:17 PM

I agree with Beamboom and Killa.

Ben, you should really try to change the vocabulary you use on your posts. You could easily scare off first time posters or readers, being the primary writer/editor you know.

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VODKA_wizard
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 2:37:33 PM
Reply

Any more crap like that and i will have to ban you.

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Norrin Radd
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 4:05:34 PM
Reply

The Wii U is in bad shape. It's not selling. At all. Expectations for sales for 2014 have been lowered by a staggering amount.

What went wrong? Why does it not have greater appeal?

1. Value proposition: it is exceedingly expensive for what it is (a video game console whose hardware can compete with the LAST generation). It costs more than a new 360 or PS3 and has abundantly fewer games available to it than either of those consoles. It's library is anemic. Yes - it has some fantastic games - but way too few.

2. The giant controller sucks. Tablet gaming sucks. There were two very good examples of controllers that most gamers liked (360 & DS3). MS & SONY were smart enough to use those for the inspiration for their new consoles.

3. No 3rd party support. I know - you buy Nintendo to play Nintendo games. Yeah, but if I do, I want it to play everything else too. Why? Have you seen how expensive consoles and games are? I'd rather just have to buy one. And I'm tired of having my entertainment center look like a server farm. And these consoles nowadays CAN do just about everything you need. Look at the Xbone - you can even run your cable/satellite through it. Necessary? No. Convenient yes! And you can even just talk to the damn thing! (No , I do not own one and will not, but that does not mean that I can't recognize it's strengths).

4. A dumb idea to launch it without a new Zelda or SSB game. Those games are system sellers. When are they coming? Way too late. They needed to be out before PS4 and X1.

5. Did I mention the controller? Do you know who really struggles with it? Small kids. I have 3. They are 10, 8 & 6. All of them said the controller was too uncomfortable. We were going to get a Wii U. They so wanted Rayman legends! But that giant controller....... (I doubt I'm the only parent who discovered this/reacted that way). Now we'll get it for PS4.

It's sad what's happened with the Wii U. Very sad. Wind Waker is one of my all-time favorite games. Wanted the HD version, but I'm going to have to pass. Sad.

Last edited by Norrin Radd on 1/18/2014 4:08:17 PM

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xnonsuchx
Saturday, January 18, 2014 @ 6:06:47 PM
Reply

I wonder how many of these accounts defending Nintendo (like a battered wife defending her husband) are new accounts???

No, the WiiU isn't a piece of crap, but Nintendo just completely failed on marketing for it, which led to the "people think it's just an upgrade for the Wii" thing. Nintendo got a bit defensive about that and tried to correct it, but then this past Xmas season, I only saw a few TV ads here and there for it that didn't really explain it and referred to it as an "upgrade."

The only critical things I'll say about it (besides the well known lack of software) are that the GamePad feels like a cheap toy (to me) and that it does seem like they were just 'playing catch-up' to the 360/PS3, so invokes somewhat of a 'too little, too late' feeling about it.

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richfiles
Sunday, January 19, 2014 @ 3:02:50 PM
Reply

Guys, I almost CANCELED my PS4 pre-order to get a Wii.
I am 100% serious.

I could easily list a half dozen titles I'd pick up on Wii U without even considering the future releases, and I can't name more than 3 or 4 titles on PS4/Xbone that get me nearly as hyped up... COUNTING announced but unreleased titles.

I KNOW the PS4 will be my main system, just as my PS3 was in the past, but that did not devalue my Wii? If I had not had catastrophic car issues (as in, the shop refused to service the car on safety issues), I'd already have a Wii U by now!

Will the Wii U stand up against a PS4 or xBone... No.
Will it stand up on it's own... Yes.

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MRSUCCESS
Monday, January 20, 2014 @ 1:03:30 PM
Reply

I read more than I post but never have I read on this site so many grown men argue about petty things. Yes, we are all passionate about the gaming industry but it's not that serious.

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Kryten1029a
Tuesday, January 21, 2014 @ 1:49:59 AM

The internet is serious business!

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PharaohJR
Wednesday, January 22, 2014 @ 1:20:59 AM
Reply

1st comment said it best. never thought the current numbers would be the outcome in this period of time. thought it hold weight in asian market but wouldnt in U.S. & Eur with Xb1 & Ps4 release. crazy.... almost picked 1 up but not seeing exclusives Donkey Kong, Cruisin USA, Rush, Clay Fighters name a few got no reason.... dont think its phasing Nintendo they got gameboy money sitting around. if they create a division with refreshing or classic games that utilize wii u for serious gamers it could see some numbers.

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stealth
Saturday, February 15, 2014 @ 9:10:29 AM
Reply

That doesn't change the fact that this article is poorly conceived.

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