: Anita Sarkeesian Got What She Wanted

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Anita Sarkeesian Got What She Wanted

This has gone far enough.

I am a huge proponent of the advancement of video game journalism. I knew, as we all knew, that gaming and women clashed for decades.

There are indeed examples of sexism (both against females and males, I'd like to add) and I can point to several examples of how video games haven't been remotely fair when including members of the fairer sex in such adventures. I can also point to many examples of developers taking the necessary strides to fix the problem, and just how far this industry has come in the past five or six years.

Anybody who wants to produce intellectual, thought-provoking articles on this topic, and anyone who wants to delve beneath the surface and ask challenging questions, has my immediate respect. For the record, Anita Sarkeesian has never been one of these people. I was three minutes into one of her first YouTube videos when I said to myself, "Well, she's doing this for attention and she's bound to get it. She doesn't actually know anything about the industry and she refuses to do an ounce of real research but hey, that's why she's on YouTube and not writing for the Times or the Atlantic."

And of course, such publications would never have produced print versions of her presentations because they're poorly presented and critically flawed. She's not a journalist. She's not a doctor. She's not an expert on the subject at hand. She's just another YouTube personality who got precisely what she wanted: Attention. She was angling for that from the start and every time she's confronted with the legitimate facts, she ducks and evades. Eventually, we should all just accept that she hasn't really produced anything worth discussion.

This isn't helping gaming. It just tells other journalism professionals that someone like Sarkeesian can be one of our most visible - and supposedly important - personalities. Well, that's about all she is: A personality. I don't begrudge her one ounce of the fame and attention she has received but I won't for one second believe she had any other ulterior motive.

10/31/2014 Ben Dutka

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souljah92
Friday, October 31, 2014 @ 10:00:50 PM
Reply

Some of these chicks need a good solid backhand to the face

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frostface
Friday, October 31, 2014 @ 10:16:05 PM

You're an idiot.

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Rachet_JC_FTW
Friday, October 31, 2014 @ 10:52:19 PM

y is he just curious as to ur reasoning

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souljah92
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:19:52 AM

your mother's an idiot

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johnld
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:29:25 AM

i dont see anything wrong with what he said other than using "chicks". he shouldve generalized it, use these people instead. it should be common sense that context is important but sadly most dont have that sense. the comment was on an article about people who try to get attention under the banner of something important but lack the facts to argue their cause. in this case, anita. ive seen her videos. i did because i wanted to see if she could prove her case intelligently. this wasnt the case. it was a one sided lecture on feminism in games with only things that support her arguement at the same time ignoring important facts that go against her arguement. i believe she made it sound that females are always the damsel in distress and there are no strong female characters but clearly ignoring facts such as samus is a strong female character. when faced with such clear facts, she just dodges them. i would watch videos just to see if it could start an intelligent conversation but those videos are clearly targeting that specific audience.

if thinking that people who present a case where facts are ignored in order to get themselves attention deserves to get hit, then i guess im an idiot as well.

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Clamedeus
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:37:50 AM

Exactly John, well said.

And no John, you're not an idiot. You pretty much hit the nail on the head with that analysis. I have seen this as well, she is only using points that support her arguments. We all know that's not how this works.

You don't go into doing your research that supports what you say. It's completely backwards. And when you point this out to her, she blocks you.

I understand that attacks shouldn't happen to the persons character for having an opinion, but her "Facts" or "Research" don't hold up. Opinions and Ideas should be challenged and fact checked to make sure they withstand the analysis and rigorous testing to back it up. But this isn't the case here.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 11/1/2014 1:47:11 AM

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Underdog15
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:54:46 AM

Facts aren't ignored, though John. Everything she brings up absolutely happens. I don't even believe she's purposely ignoring anything. I just think, for the most part, the issues are far more complex than she realizes.

As for Souljah's comment, I know how to make it better, too. As you say, instead of "chicks", say "these people". Then replace "of these" with "times I feel like". Then replace "backhand to the face" with "debate with an intellectual. So not me".

My reaction was the same as Frosty's, actually.

@Clamedeus
Her facts do hold up. They absolutely happen all the time. What she doesn't have is her own research. Just experience based on a small sample size.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/1/2014 1:55:42 AM

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souljah92
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 2:02:39 AM

whatever helps you sleep at night big boy

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Beamboom
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 4:37:52 AM

Why is this guy even at this site?

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johnld
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 5:39:46 AM

im not arguing about whether theres sexism though. i know there is. its has been a male oriented industry buy landscape has definitely changed. sure there are more females in gaming but you really cant blame creators like shigeru miyamoto because they started way back. when ask why his games are male oriented, his answer was he never really thought about it. he justcreated fun games to play. as for the community, cant really do anything about that. its the internet, idiots are everywhere protected by anonymity. i tried going on pshome one time and used a girl avatar. guy started hitting on me but got mad after he found out im i guy. i thought the name john overmy avatars head was a dead give away. then they started hitting on my friend while she tells me that their talking trash about me. in battlefield 3 too, guy hits on my friend while he talked trash about me not knowing that she was telling me everything. point is, idiots will be idiots, its the same everywhere, not just gaming.

my biggest problem with her is that she brings up a subject that would incite a discussion but as clam said, she would ban/delete intelligent comments that goes against her. her presentation of the material is completely onesided, omitting certain facts that goes against her. while watching her videos, i found myself correcting her with actual facts i know. the video she put up was aimed towards the people who dont know much about videogames. which means she can omit stuff to make her case and noone would know other than the people who are involved in videogames, and of course those passionate about gaming will get pissed. so yeah, i have a problem with her presentation, not the cause. im always open to have an intelligent conversation but if youre going to approach me with half assed information, its not worth bothering with. when i said youre, its more of a general thing and not aimed at a certain person.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 11:00:46 AM

souljah: Sounds to me like you're the one who needs a smack.

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souljah92
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 5:21:09 AM

tell me how naughty i am while you do it

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Bio
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 9:26:57 AM

Nice to see there are at least a dozen PSXE readers who actually think a woman needs to be hit for having an opinion.

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Underdog15
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 10:00:07 AM

@Bio
I am thoroughly shocked, actually. And disappointed.

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Bio
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 10:19:27 AM

I'm not shocked at all. Sexist articles about sexism tend to attract sexists.

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Underdog15
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 4:48:02 PM

Didn't really find the article exist, personally.

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frostface
Friday, October 31, 2014 @ 10:19:18 PM
Reply

I think she had every right to share her opinions on female representation in gaming, regardless of whether or not she's active in gaming. Whether or not I agree with everything she says is irrelevant. I think this article reeks of as much attention seeking as is claimed against her. The great things about opinions is that you're as entitled to yours as much as she is of her's and I am of mine. Because you don't agree with her you're dismissing her opinion as attention seeking. In my opinion, you're attention seeking.

Last edited by frostface on 10/31/2014 10:23:38 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 12:07:27 AM

Great that you pop out of the forums long enough to have a problem with something I wrote. Really, what else is new?

You didn't even bother to read the article, or you have a serious reading comprehension problem. Never once did I say I disagreed with what she said. In fact, that's not even the point. The point is that she presented reports on facts with little to no research, and acted like an authority on the subject of sexism in the gaming industry with seemingly zero knowledge.

Nothing what she says is her opinion. These aren't op-eds. They're reports. She's making what she believes are factual statements; these are not opinions. They're basically news features. That's how she presents them and that's how we're supposed to take them. And in that respect, they're terrible; beyond amateur-ish. That's the problem I have. And you'd know that had you read a single word I wrote, or had any inkling what an "opinion" actually is.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/1/2014 12:15:57 AM

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souljah92
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:23:44 AM

"I think she had every right to share her opinions on female representation in gaming, regardless of whether or not she's active in gaming."

You're some kind of moron aren't you

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DemonNeno
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 4:20:59 AM

I hope you don't vote for politicians.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 9:05:27 AM

Frosty I see what you're saying, you think Ben is riding the coat tails of this personality to get some press. The thing is, whatever is in the news is fair game for editorial content.

As far as attention seeking goes, I think it's a fair assessment that (I've now done some research) she doesn't seem to have even the most basic knowledge of the industry as we do, her motives of being seen by using a bandwagon speech are more plausible than any consideration that she is an informed commentator that anyone should pay attention to.

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frostface
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 2:18:42 PM

Once again Ben I think you've missed my point but I think World gets it.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 6:41:02 PM

I didn't miss your point. You said some garbage about me disagreeing with her; the standard BS crap about me not letting people voice their opinions.

It's not opinion. Whether I agree with her or not is completely irrelevant.

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Bio
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 10:24:31 AM

You don't have to be a "HARDCORE GAMER" to see the obvious, that this industry is horribly misogynist. Sarkeesian doesn't need some in depth knowledge of videogames to notice that most female characters are grossly underdressed and more often than not simply objects to be won.

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Rachet_JC_FTW
Friday, October 31, 2014 @ 10:53:11 PM
Reply

i kinda thought that might be the case but i wasn't sure so thanks ben for the new info

happy gaming

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Underdog15
Friday, October 31, 2014 @ 11:42:15 PM
Reply

I have a couple thoughts...

On the issue of how women are treated online in gaming communities, both over the headset and on many webpages, she has always had a point. Even on this website, you don't need to look any further than the very first comment on this article to see how easy it is to locate a complete idiot. On the other hand, you don't need to look any further than the first responder to see that most people know they're idiots. But Ben, even you in a recent article bemoaned the gaming community. Beamboom had faith it could change in a weird sort of role reversal with you, but you have to admit it's easy to find.

On the issue of sexy characters in games, I find her approach to be a bit of a waste of breath unless you're willing to address sexism in movies, music, pop culture, and basically everything else about our culture that over-glorifies impossible sexuality. People would argue in her defense saying at least someone is doing it, but I don't think it comes close to understanding the core principle at stake here. I also think it's infuriating to talk about female sexuality in games without also identifying overly perfect male prototypes we see in all games. Admit it... Nathan Drake is one fine piece of man meat! Hubba hubba, amirite, ladies and an estimated 5% of the male population? Or even worse... overly muscular and impossibly agile structures in gears of war characters.

Finally, as for criticizing her for "wanting attention", I don't really buy into that too much... I haven't commented much here recently because I just started up my own business. I got into it out of a really good place... wanting to provide recreational programming for youth. (It's not fair that you can't play a sport you love, for example, just because you couldn't make a cut.) Obviously, I'm advertising, interviewing on radio, and basically doing my best to get the word out there. And yeah... I'm totally doing it to get noticed so my business can be as successful as possible. But that still doesn't undermine the original reason of why I got into it. (I started going in as a non-profit, but there's so much infuriating red tape, if I take a business approach I can actually control the programming.) I think you can apply the same theory to her... I fully believe she's passionate about it for the right original reasons. But she'd be daft to not also use it to make her place in the world.

And I wouldn't hold that against her for a second. We all do that, and anyone not passionate about what we are can see that in us easily.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/31/2014 11:44:30 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, October 31, 2014 @ 11:43:57 PM
Reply

I dunno who she is or anything but I assume she's being stupid about the portrayal of women in games.

Ya know what, people buy a fantasy product because it delivers to them what they want, which is often oversexualized images and characters.

That's the product for consumption, it isn't the business of game developers to equalize or normalize portrayal of the genders fairly unless that is their artistic goal.

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Underdog15
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 12:00:17 AM

I saw her tonight on the Colbert Report. lol. I've heard her before, too.

Basically, she's tackling a huge concept under the itty-bitty wing of gaming in regards to how female characters are perceived. A little naive for the very reasons you stated.

The one area she has a point about, though, is the community at large online while playing or commenting on the internet. But that's nothing new, and even that I find hard to believe is only in gaming.

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Clamedeus
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:34:41 AM

@Underdog15

It's definitely not just in gaming, you can see this in Anime, Manga, Movies, TV Shows. Heck, even Music. Basically anything really that has a community.

You can get a very bad community in any environment. The few, but very loud minority seem to be the only ones who get the spot light, but people never focus on the good that comes in that community.

Last edited by Clamedeus on 11/1/2014 1:36:29 AM

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Banky A
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:47:12 AM

She is being stupid. I didn't watch any of her after having a look at one of the first vids.

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Underdog15
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:58:23 AM

@Clamedeus
"It's definitely not just in gaming, you can see this in Anime, Manga, Movies, TV Shows. Heck, even Music. Basically anything really that has a community."

That's exactly what I said above.


"You can get a very bad community in any environment. The few, but very loud minority seem to be the only ones who get the spot light, but people never focus on the good that comes in that community."

Yeah, but that's no fun. :p Sometimes, I do wonder how small the minority is... or if it's even a minority.

@Banky
It's unfortunate you aren't able to 'eat the meat and spit out the bones' so to speak.

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Clamedeus
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 2:21:46 AM

You can blame social media for that.

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Banky A
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 2:38:46 AM

@Underdog

Sorry to sound up myself but I actually like to do that often with things. Her material was not enjoyable for me to sit through.

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johnld
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 5:48:26 AM

her material isnt supposed to be entertaining though banky, its to get people to start a discussion. but sadly she failed in that respect because she shut down people who actually had good points against her view. basically closing the discussion before it even starts. which makes me think that shes just riding the wave to get attention. ban and delete the people who are just attacking her character, thats fine.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 7:06:02 AM

I like anime because of its portrayal of women. It is presented in the same manner of British gothic and romantic fiction of the 18th century, a once popular form of novel I enjoy. That's the product, a fantasy world where sh*t ain't fair, it's appealing to a certain mind. Granted most people think that kind of mind is sick but whatever, I never cared what people think of me anyway.

Using gaming as the whipping boy is my problem. So it's alright for Beyonce to be a feminist by showing her ass everywhere I turn but I can't enjoy a jiggle from Kasumi?

The treatment of females by fully voiced online communities and multiplayer games is a real thing that could use a discussion, I'll give her that.

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ethird1
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 1:58:25 AM
Reply

BOOBIES!

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Underdog15
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 2:02:01 AM
Reply

Basically, she makes a few good points, but lacks the ability to address the core root of any of the issues.

Also, while some points are good, none of them are her own ideas. That's the part that bugs me about her. This whole "gamergate" crap makes people think this is some sort of new issue....

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Cesar_ser_4
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 3:11:20 AM
Reply

I've always wanted to know Ben's POV on this matter. For some reason my brain cannot comprehend WTF is going on, I read ARS Technicas's articles, which seem to be on the other side, and this still goes over my head. It's like I start reading this and my brain shuts down in fear that I might catch the ignorance virus or something. All everyone else seems to be focusing on is how she is always getting threats left and right.

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Beamboom
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 4:50:01 AM
Reply

She's hardly the only amateur on YouTube. I rarely see anything but.

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Beamboom
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 6:47:13 AM

Oh, she's a feminist author or something. I really should stop commenting on local American heroes I've never heard of before. :)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 9:00:24 AM

She's not an American Hero. Our heroes are in dark rooms with PTSD considering suicide. We need to change this nation to something more like the greatest generation.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 11:11:20 AM

Exactly what World said.

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Deleted User [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 11:42:18 AM

Racism, fear, blindly following government, and the wholesale killings of non combatants? Greatest generation? Bah. We've yet to reach that in this country.

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Cesar_ser_4
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 12:53:26 PM

In this day and age anyone can get PTSD, just like how people who cant get over some mundane thing suffer from OCD, etc. Yep, this is the world we come to live in...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 2:56:01 PM

Kid: It was known as the "greatest generation" because of certain philosophies and ideals, despite the problems. These are philosophies and ideals we desperately need to embrace again, by the way, if we have any interest in halting the REGRESSION we're currently experiencing.

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Underdog15
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 4:26:33 PM

"In this day and age anyone can get PTSD, just like how people who cant get over some mundane thing suffer from OCD"


Just.... wow.... Where's that facepalm emoji....

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 9:00:35 AM
Reply

I wanna be a video game personality.

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JonnyR
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 11:55:56 AM

Here's some easy steps;

1)Take an aspect of pop culture (video gaming) and apply a strong ideology to it.
2)share your opinions online (for quicker results portray your opinions as facts)
3)wait for angry public decent
4)when public decent is at an all time high, show as many people as possible how horrible everyone is being to you. (if you have a patreon or kickstarter nows the time to tell people about it)
5)await sympathy and press coverage from journalists with similar ideologies/agendas.
6)let that snowball roll, baby!

If anyone's offended, this is sarcasm (and a great deal of cynicism) and was not an intended attack on anyone's sensibilities.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 12:18:49 PM

haha, thanks man that was funny. I do appreciate the folks who like my articles but it'd be fun to have that notoriety (like this sad woman finagled but I'd want to be legitimate)

Actually I have created a persona and was working on a site for it until I got this new job. I gotta finish that sucker, it really is a fun site project.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 11/1/2014 12:20:14 PM

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Deleted User
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 11:38:11 AM
Reply

I'm not sure how anyone can claim with any degree of certainty what her actual motivations were. Like all of us, she wants her opinion heard and to feel they matter, but one cannot take that and make the claim that her entire argument is disingenuous. Seems like a bit of envy is running rampant through the boy's club that is video game journalism.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 12:20:59 PM

motivations are deduced from the content of actions.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 2:53:16 PM

I'll make the claim all I want, and I will do so with all sorts of certainty.

If you put yourself in the public eye and don't actually put out the requisite amount of effort to be considered legitimate in ANY capacity, you are only doing it for attention.

End of story.

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Underdog15
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 4:28:07 PM

On the Colbert Report, I watched him ask her 4 or 5 times to name a couple examples of games. She tried not to, and after much pestering, her only example was GTA.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, November 01, 2014 @ 6:42:09 PM

She's clueless. Any avid gamer, even those who don't want to admit it for fear of sounding sexist, knows it.

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Bio
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 9:05:14 AM
Reply

This is the dumbest thing that has ever appeared on this website.

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ulsterscot
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 1:52:00 PM
Reply

Never read her article - but she's certainly easy on the eyes ....

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gamer4lifexxx
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 4:14:51 PM
Reply

this story further gives her unnecessary attention. ..you realize that right PSextreme? if we ignore her babbling maybe she'll eventually give up and go crawl into a hole and die.. or maybe someone can just pay her to shut up and leave

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Bio
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 4:55:51 AM

Why should she shut up? She's absolutely right.

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JDC80
Sunday, November 02, 2014 @ 11:43:22 PM
Reply

There's a old saying: Don't feed the trolls and some people are sending McDonald's and pizza to the troll's house. Every time someone send her death threats or call her nasty names it boost her profile.

If you want to have a discussion on video game violence or how women are represented in games that's one thing. But I saw her Hitman video and it seems she doesn't want to have a honest debate

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Jakintosh
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 8:16:31 AM
Reply

I know I've never been active in the comments, but I've been a reader here for years now. I just wanted to say that this is the last article I'll be reading here, and that I'm disappointed that you are spreading ideas like this as a person with a platform of any real size. It's ideas like this that discredit cultural critics like Sarkeesian, and convinces people that gamergate is okay, or worse, justified. Her critical analysis is from a feminist point of view and is specifically about pointing out common tropes, which is why she gives such a "shallow" analysis: she's not trying to give a fair review, she's giving a detailed analysis under a specific critical lens.

I hope you can reflect on how cultural critics like Anita are important, and that games as "art" won't always be analyzed in a balanced consumer review format, but also under critical theory lenses.

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Underdog15
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 8:57:31 AM

I think it's more disappointing that you don't really understand the article and are incapable of engaging it through discussion.

I've always been disgusted by the way women are treated online and in forums. (and by the way, if you were an avid reader here, you'd know all the writing staff have been, too) The article isn't about not allowing her to have a voice or about saying inequality doesn't exist at various levels.

The point of the article in short (editorial, by the way) is that it's frustrating that a voice is given to a person who doesn't understand the medium well enough to give an accurate or helpful critique of the issue. I'm quite sure the writer of this article would have been fine if it had come from someone who knows the industry and was able to give an accurate picture of the issues. As is, she's wearing a mask publicly as if she understands all that the industry offers and does the public a disservice by not knowing the issues. What's more, she doesn't even seem to be aware of the double standard at play here. And then finally, she is inconsistent on what "gamergate" is! (Make up your mind.... is it about scantily clad women or about how women are treated by other gamers?? I don't even know anymore, myself!)

My issue is that many of the common "tropes" fail to point out the even more common "anti-tropes", if you will. She does little to promote positive change, and instead, does more to cultivate a sort of gamer witch-hunt in a society that already likes to blame whatever ills that society on gaming population! (They already try to blame American gun violence on video games, for example)

So, in short, I'm a little disgusted by your lack of ability to really discuss the issue. Your reaction is "I'm gonna go and never come back!" as opposed to understand the deeper, underlying principles the author of the article takes issue with. And for me, that is a more silencing attitude than the one you are trying to abhor.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/3/2014 9:06:15 AM

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Bio
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 10:06:18 AM

Underdog, pretending that she needs to possess irrelevant knowledge about gaming in order for her observations about sexism to have any merit is ridiculous, and it is absolutely just an excuse to dismiss her opinion rather than acknowledge the problems she's pointing out. That is why this op-ed was so damn stupid.

Sarkeesian doesn't have to prestige in Call of Duty or hit the level cap in Borderlands 2 or any crap like that to notice that women are hypersexualized and objectified in games. If anything, her being an "outsider" gives her observations more credibility, not less.

Crap like this article is just one of the ways that 'GAMERS' try to pretend that there isn't a serious problem with the industry.

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Jakintosh
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 11:12:16 AM

Underdog, I understand the article 100%. I get that Ben isn't trying to silence her, but I'm disagreeing with his two claims which are:

1. Anita is only doing this for attention, and has no other motive for her work.

2. Anita isn't qualified to talk about the subject.

Both of these viewpoints are sexist in their own right, and are used to discredit her work. As a game developer, I back Anita and her work and applaud her bravery for continuing to put herself in harms way to bring attention to a topic that is important to the game industry. Did she get attention? Yes. Why? Because the issue is important and polarizing. Just because she received attention, does not mean she had no other motive for her series.

The second point, that she isn't qualified, is ridiculous. You don't have to be a "hardcore gamer" to be able to apply cultural criticism to a medium. In fact, it would probably add bias to your critique if you WERE a hardcore gamer. Anita doesn't have to be accepted as a true gamer for her critiques to matter; she's a feminist critic with an interest in games who is applying her knowledge to critique her hobby. I honestly wish there were more outside voices giving their thoughts and critiquing games from other points of view, because it would only help the industry mature even faster.

Basically, I found this article to be reactionary, misinformed, and defensive. Those are not the kinds of qualities I'm looking for in my news sources. "Anybody who wants to produce intellectual, thought-provoking articles on this topic... has my immediate respect." Maybe Ben should follow his own advice.

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Underdog15
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 12:04:15 PM

I'm curious as to what point in any of my posts I might have indicated she must be a "hardcore" gamer, whatever that even means, in order to have insight... Again, you've missed my point (as well as the article's).

Bio and Jak,
Being an outsider does less for her, I believe. Here's why:

What sorts of things do you think typically make headlines or are heard by the general public not involved in gaming? I can guarantee you that people aren't talking about the positive things going on in Journey or Last of Us with grammy award winning composers, quality writing getting acknowledge by writer's guilds, top quality acting performances, appearances by well known talents like Ellen Page, Willem Defoe, or Kevin Spacey. They aren't talking about how impressive it is to see artists on 3D art boards creating what they do. And perhaps worst of all through all of this, they aren't talking about excellent female lead characters like Ellie, the new Lara, Aveline (or other female characters in the AC series like Bloody Mary), Chloe and Elena in Uncharted, and the countless other solid female leads that have been around for years! Heck, look at a character like Aerith from FFVII back in 1997. We've had games with strong female characters for years. How it's possible for even an "outsider", as you call her, to not know basic information like that without at least a very minimal amount of research is beyond me.

Anita is unable to comment on any of the strides gaming has made. She is unable to do more than complain about the negatives. A strong argument COULD be made to help her points by pointing us back in the direction we have already made positive strides in. Instead of saying "this is bad", she should be adding to that, "but we can and have made progress... let's continue in that direction". But she is incapable of doing so. She can't even provide examples beyond the obvious, "GTA is bad" schtick we all know.

And it weakens her point. OBVIOUSLY. You know it does. Already, gamers who KNOW all the good things I mention ignore her because they quickly see she doesn't fully know what she's talking about. And in any avenue, most of being about to provoke thought or change INCLUDES knowing your audience and how to talk to them. You can't rely on people to see good things and ignore the bad (it's a rare skill, unfortunately). If you're glaringly unknowing about a sizeable amount of proof against your point, it is difficult to garner respect. And that's the issue she's faced with. (ask a doctor what they think of the anti-vaccine crowd. It's difficult to argue with people who don't even understand the science behind their own points let alone the real science of it all.)

What's worse, is that she reinforces the traditional stereotypes to the public unfamiliar with gaming that gamers are still adult children living in their parent's basement. These folks already know of things like Grand Theft Auto and Call of Duty. They don't know about the other stuff.

In short, she does nothing to educate those who know nothing about gaming and she does nothing to begin a healthy discussion with those that do know.

Jakintosh:
As for your points on 1... Whether you want to admit it or not, it is for attention. Her motives may come from a good place. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I got into my business because I want to provide better recreational opportunities for youth. When I advertise, sure, I want people to be more aware of the lack of programming out there, but I also want them to pay attention to my business. The same applies to her. She wants more attention for her cause. And while the cause may be honourable, to pretend that this isn't to her own personal benefit is extremely naive. At the end of the day, while I'm passionate about youth programming, I'm advertising because I want my business to succeed. She and I are the same, the difference between us and other "selfish people" being that we're both fortunate enough to work in a field we're passionate about. So it's personally -REWARDING- work in a variety of ways, but it's still also a means to our ends of success seeking.... Don't forget..... it should strike you as odd for her to attempt a platform without giving it more thought. It would not have taken much research for her to have done this in a FAR more effective way. The way she did it served her own purpose far better than the cause, and I think that's what resonates with the author. That's not sexist. That's how our capitalist society works.

As for 2, how in the WORLD is that sexist? She isn't qualified to touch on gaming. End of discussion. It's not like Ben made those comments about Jade, or something. You know... a woman of success within the actual industry?

In conclusion, it would be fine to have outside voices. That's not the issue. The issue is outside voices allowing themselves and presenting themselves as experts on the topic without even understanding it in it's entirety. She doesn't even know how to make an argument or commentary on where things should go! All she can say is "it's bad". That's it! When asked, she says generic things like "Maybe the woman shouldn't be the damsel!" without thinking "hmm... are there games out there that DON'T require rescuing a damsel?" or "are there games where a man needs to be saved?" Heck, even Call of Duty sports a female US president....

And that's my issue. My issue is that she is just noise because of the way she's handled this. That isn't demeaning to her pro-feminist message. It isn't an attack on her values or her as a woman. It's my frustration with her inability to offer the gaming industry with anything tangible to help it move in the right direction. She doesn't help anything. All she's done is locate a soapbox to preach a pro-feminist message (which is fine), but does so while crippling any actual progress that might have been made by ignoring it and reinforcing negative stereotypes placed on gamers at large (which is irresponsible and not ok).

That's just the way it is. She's done nothing to help the issue. But she certainly has garnered a greater following for herself. That is what the article is talking about. No one has benefited but herself (whether intentional or not is irrelevant). That is what the author sees. And that is why you do not understand the direction the editorial is coming from.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/3/2014 12:21:07 PM

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Bio
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 12:22:59 PM

There's absolutely no reason why she needs to mention the positive stuff in games. She doesn't need to appease or appeal to "HARDCORE GAMERS". People like you will ignore her no matter what, so it's a waste of time trying. She's focusing on the larger crowd of people who casually play, because they're the demographic that brings in the cash, which means their prevailing attitudes will dictate future development.

Frankly, anyone who ignores her because she doesn't have some frivolous 'in depth' knowledge of completely unimportant things is oblivious, and probably part of the problem. Anyone who understands how rampant misogyny runs in games and would like to see that end should applaud her efforts. She gets death and rape threats instead, from the very people who expect her to be a "HARDCORE GAMER". Frankly, "HARCORE GAMERS" sicken me.

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Underdog15
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 12:32:44 PM

I really wish you'd stop putting words in my mouth. That's 3 times now you've responded to what your head imagines I have said.

I didn't say she needs to appease "hardcore gamers". I said it's difficult to get respect from people when you make it obvious to them that you don't understand the issue you're addressing. (Even my wife thought so, and she plays ZERO games ever.) You don't need to be "hardcore" to know a lot of games have solid female leads. You don't need to be "hardcore" to know that most people know how to be kind. And you don't need to be "hardcore" to know there are redeeming values in the industry.

I also didn't say I ignore her, nor did I say she has no points of value.

If we're going to start hurling around insults with generalized "people like you" comments, being "oblivious", etc., then I have to say I feel the same way about your over-generalization of "hardcore gamers" sickening you because of a couple idiots who send death threats. I also find it offensive that you are treating her as if she is above reproach or treating her like a damsel in distress in need of saving from the "evil hardcore gamers".

Get a grip, Bio. The point is she could have done this in a MUCH more effective manner, but she didn't. You can't possibly expect everyone to respect her point of view because... well... I'm not sure why you think she should be above reproach, actually...

In fact, just stop responding to the imaginary things I've said. For once, try to respond to something I actually brought up. It would make this discussion much more straight forward.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/3/2014 12:35:19 PM

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Underdog15
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 12:44:07 PM

And yeah, I'm sorry, but I do think if you want to tackle an issue that you believe is facing the largest multimedia industry in the world, you should do at least a tiny bit of preliminary research.

I would.

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Bio
Monday, November 03, 2014 @ 12:46:46 PM

I am responding to what you're saying. I just think you don't like the response. You keep saying she needs to bring up the positive things in gaming, or that she should mention there are strong female leads in games (I can think of maybe 1 or 2 strong female leads that are also not hypersexualized, whereas I can think of a few hundred female characters who are nothing but mindless sexpots).

You're basically saying she has to stroke your hobby's ego if she wants to criticize it at all, and that's asinine. Again, she's not even trying to convince you. You were never going to listen. Dutka was never going to listen. She's trying to reach the larger audience, and she has. Society at large is now having a discussion about sexism in gaming, it's something that's in the New York Times, on Colbert, etc. Because she, and people like her, have started speaking up.

She's having an incredible impact, and her message has been very effective. The death and rape threats have helped as well. The more neckbeards retaliate like that and prove her points for her, the more normal people will realize how effed up this industry is.

I think you, and people like you, are just pissed because she's not a fan of your hobby. The thing is, you can really like something AND admit that it has problems.

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JROD0823
Saturday, November 08, 2014 @ 4:12:17 PM
Reply

Still doesn't change the fact that she is nothing more than a sock puppet with no real opinions of her own.

Her boyfriend Jonathan McIntosh is the puppet master with his hand shoved up her ass, writing all of her carefully crafted scripts.

She isn't even a gamer, and if you think you can argue otherwise, you best click this link first before you make a fool of yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW-69xXD734

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