: Killzone 2/Edge Upheaval: Snuffing Out The Flames

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Killzone 2/Edge Upheaval: Snuffing Out The Flames

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First of all, I would like to thank Arnold for his editorial in defense of my stance and character. I certainly didn't ask him to do that, but I definitely appreciate it. Now, I understand the author who has sparked such a firestorm should step up and respond to the backlash, and that's exactly what I'm doing. I believe the readers deserve it.

However, before I do that, because I care far more about this site than I do about what people think of me, let me echo Arnold's insistence that PSX Extreme is not - and never has been - a "fansite." I won't defend it with words here because it needs no defense. Simply sift through any and all content you wish, stretching back a week, a month, or even a year. Go for it; I'll wait. We pride ourselves on delivering up-to-date and reliable news each and every day, and you can even check our review section if you like. We are typically at or even beneath the typical scoring curve for PlayStation platform titles, and above all else, the readers can count on our interaction. Our ever-growing Comments section and freshly rejuvenated forums are indicative of the fact that we always interact with our readers. We appreciate them more than they'll ever know.

So please, don't condemn the site for one article that got blown out of proportion. Take the time to peruse everything we have to offer, and then make a decision. I will personally hand you a bagful of cookies if you can find sufficient evidence that we are in any way different than other popular game sites in how we present our content. Well, the writing may be a bit better. ;) Now, Arnold is also correct that I have never been a "fanboy" nor do I have any intention of becoming one. I do own a 360 and I've been trying to get Arnold to get one, as he stated. I loved Gears. I love the Halo series (I've got 'em all; they're sitting right behind me). I had the original Xbox, too. I handled all the content for Xbox Nerds until we opted to focus entirely on PSXE. I would never have even bought the PS3 on launch day if it weren't for this job. As far as I'm concerned, if a game is good, I don't give one flying fu** if I have to play it on a toaster. Platform loyalty is counter-productive.

As for editorials I've written in the past, again, judge for yourself.

"Will The PS3/360 Become The Best Combo Ever?"

"Game Franchises You Will Always Play"

"Editorial: The Fanboy Never Wins

"Metal Gear Solid 4: A Revolution And A Revelation"

I am most proud of that MGS4 piece, but this is just a sampling of what I usually write for PSXE, and I doubt people will have a problem with any of it. As for the Edge piece, there are two very important facts to consider: 1. I'd say about half the people who slammed us for it didn't even read it. They simply saw the headline and the name of the site and made a snap, rash assumption. 2. The entire point was missed by most. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, and while I was taken to task by Variety and other sources for not actually citing anything concrete in their review, that wasn't the point.

2/12/2009 Ben Dutka

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Comments (136 posts)

N a S a H
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:00:37 PM
Reply

"PSX Extreme has, and will continue to be, your #1 source for the best in PlayStation content."

No doubt.

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wasim
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 8:31:00 PM

EDGE should be perma banned by SONY

sooo much hate

Gears 2 - 9/10
Ninja flop gaiden 2 , viva crap, banjo crappor got 8 from EDGE

On the other hand

R1 -7/10
R2 - 6/10
KZ2 - 7/10
Flower also got 7/10 from that MICROSOFT EDGE

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Qubex
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:17:21 PM

I will buy Flower just to spite them... idiots!

Q!

"i aM hOMe"

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Totalz
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:53:33 PM

I bought flower today and actually liked it...but the same mark as Killzone 2? come off it!

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www
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 4:18:16 AM

LOL Wasim.

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N a S a H
Saturday, February 14, 2009 @ 7:15:01 PM

They're pretty ridiculous but you can't BAN them from reviewing games. They'll still be included as a reviewer if they chose to play a game and review it. People could just ignore them. That's what I do.

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Digital Pimp
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:01:45 PM
Reply

"If I can't learn what "offensive" is, I shouldn't bother posting."


-- Ben was here

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/12/2009 4:25:47 PM

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N a S a H
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:30:31 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt8j6o_ZGC4

OWNED ;)

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infekt
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:41:12 PM

Lol. KILLZOWND!

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www
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 5:26:50 PM

HA! KILLZOWNED...I like that word!

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AluShady
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:04:36 PM
Reply

Good piece.

Honestly this is just one more thing that's going to blow over in due time.

I'm glad you said what you said. I could tell eventually it was frustrating you in the comments section though. People most of the time don't understand text as well as face to face verbal communication. Maybe something was lost in translation.

I'll still be frequenting the site. It's the best I've come across.

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Wage SLAVES
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:31:25 PM

Welcome. With time you'll see what a treat it is.

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CH1N00K
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:06:18 PM
Reply

I love playing games on my toaster!! Bread goes in Toast comes out...fork goes in..New Hairdo Bonus Round! It's fun for the whole family! Hey what's that smell?

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Qubex
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:19:03 PM

I made 2 slices of hot toast yesterday, and spread a thick layer of Nutella chocolate spread on them... heaven... and then I went back and played on the PS3, just to top it off!

Q!

"i Am hOMe"

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Akuma07
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:30:28 PM

theres a secret level aswell..

"toaster in the bathtub"

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Aftab
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 11:07:22 PM

LOL! And a trophy: "There is no 'fry', just do."

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Reynono
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 7:38:58 AM

do they have any DLC for the toaster?

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CH1N00K
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 1:11:19 PM

There was going to be some DLC for the toaster, but Microsoft bought a timed exclusive on it, so we may never see it..., Doesn't matter though, it was just a crumb tray add-on and a bagel slot.....

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Fatcat3788
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:09:06 PM
Reply

I still enjoy it here Ben. I believe a lot of people do. I mostly do because I believe you and I have similar tastes and I think that you say it how it is. I am not even going to mention the article in question, except that I agree with what you wrote. Keep up the good work. End Comment.

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TroubleMaker
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:14:36 PM
Reply

Ben, my respect for you increases with each article you write, your writing style is legendry and i have never doubted your opinion. Without you Ben this site wouldn't be the same and i think Arnold and alot of readers would agree with me on this. Ben is not a "fanboy" like many claim, he's just doing what's right by telling the reader not to judge KZ2 by the EDGE review because it did NOT provide enough reasons on why the gave it a 7. I support your opinion Ben and keep up the good work and PSXE is one of the best sites out there because of YOU.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:16:50 PM
Reply

PSX EXTREME, Ben has played this thing out so well i respect u guys even more... even though i feel like u did nothing wrong in the first place the fact that these idiots dont get what u were trying to say about the edge review, and keep hating on you, and u guys just shrug it off like u should, or maybe not shrug it off completely but let people say what they say and keep your cool is exceptionally noticed, Everyone should be happy we can post comments and put in our sense about the matters, and have ben and arnold respond cus theres not many sites that interact with there fans, subscribers, readers, or what have you! so for them to take this criticism as well as they are i just wanna say keep doing what your doing i love it!

You guys do a better job than most sites in providing new info. everyday and its interesting, and truthful and thats why myself and everyone else comes here, as for the people who are hating, your still here too or maybe just showed up and obviously theres something about the site that pulls u in to... why your upset i dont know u keep saying people have opinions well Ben spoke his OPINION and in no way was it even criticizing EDGE. Simply Ben pointed out there review didn't coincide with the score which it didnt!
Thanks Arnold & Ben for letting us post comments on your amazing, brutally honest, up to date, and worthy site!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/12/2009 4:21:13 PM

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Joe_III
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:19:51 PM
Reply

i love the pic on pg2. now a part of my photobucket.

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aaronisbla
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 2:08:08 AM

Im actually considering making that my avatar on all of the websites i visit, its awesome

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wano
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:25:21 PM
Reply

i think im going to puke.... :-)

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Qubex
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:20:08 PM

Qubex gives Wano a vomit bag :)

Q!

"i aM hOMe"

Last edited by Qubex on 2/12/2009 9:20:16 PM

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Wage SLAVES
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:30:22 PM
Reply

THIS sums up the whole missed intent:

"The only purpose was to stand up for the consumer; for the people that would e-mail me and say, "hey, I just saw that Killzone 2 got a 7 from Edge...I thought it was a must-buy for me, but now I'm thinking twice...""


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Aftab
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 11:09:25 PM

Agreed.

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Phoelix
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:33:37 PM
Reply

I finally broke down and actually read the review. I believe it's both well- and poorly written. It has some sweet imagery about the game, but it mostly ignores everything that we actually WANT in a review.

It's a shame that you're having to prove yourself as not a fanboy. I think it says more about us readers than you the writer, Ben. And really, it's probably also a product of the poor quality of a lot of gaming journalism today.

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chilker
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 7:12:03 PM

Yeah, I read it too... but that was back when it originally came out. So I don't remember specifics anymore, but I really thought that the number 7 didn't match up with the text. I could read it over again, and see if I remember that correctly. But I was really surprised by the 7. The review did not sound like it was reviewing a 7 game.

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Phoelix
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 9:23:15 AM

I agree.

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NightHawk17
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:33:49 PM
Reply

All people who post here religiously will agree with me in saying that this is the best site to come for information, the atmosphere here is great and the editorials and articles are also spot on. Ben keep doing what your doing d(^_^)

Last edited by NightHawk17 on 2/12/2009 4:40:42 PM

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keaton
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:36:38 PM

yeap can't disagree with you on that, the atmosphere is great and the interaction between fellow readers and writers are excellent...

there is little bias within the readers, and I believe Ben has done a great job to keep the biasness out of this site

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NightHawk17
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:43:13 PM

Yup People can debate W/FACTS without going into frenzies and a lot of us are good friends on the PSN network

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JasperLoons
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:40:59 PM
Reply

I'll still be coming to the site. I started frequenting this site specifically because you seemed to have a positive view of the PS3 without crossing into fanboy territory. That's a difficult balance to strike.

Anyway, I've been visiting plenty of other gaming websites and haven't seen any backlash to your article. I'm sure it will blow over before long.

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infekt
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:44:17 PM
Reply

Does anyone read Edge these days? I mean seriously? I haven't read anything from them in years..

Last edited by infekt on 2/12/2009 4:44:31 PM

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Qubex
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:22:21 PM

Nope, niether have I. Last time was many years ago... when I actually picked up the mag in the stores and paged through it... I don't waste any money on print media anymore... I save it and get my 2-3 AAA games a year, and a few titles from PSN... and that is it!

Q!

"i Am hOMe"

Last edited by Qubex on 2/12/2009 9:22:39 PM

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Aftab
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 11:11:48 PM

Nope. Not me. Though I did read the Gears2 review after coming to hear about the KZ2 review. Very little substance even there. If they are not a biased site, then they haven't done much to debunk that "misconception".

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dlte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 2:50:45 AM

I haven't even heard of them til now

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I_defenestrate
Sunday, February 15, 2009 @ 10:47:50 PM

Hell, I hadn't even heard of Edge until this business..

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Dustinwp
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 4:49:23 PM
Reply

Thank you Ben, for taking so much crap over an editorial that we all felt necessary. Everyone I know thought it was about time someone said it. Thanks bro!

Last edited by Dustinwp on 2/12/2009 4:49:51 PM

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FLYING_APE
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 5:00:46 PM
Reply

If gears 2 got a 7 then the xbox owners will get pi**ed and rightly so great game.

The kz2 edge review read like a rant, it really didn't tell you much about the game. GRAPHICS SOUND?

SUCK IT EDGE... DO IT

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 5:03:56 PM
Reply

Again and again I come here for the quality of the site, I've come to learn that 2 or 3 people even respect my advice and when you are a writer of any significance you have a goddamned duty to be respective to all who intellectually review your material. It became a fiasco for reasons that are behind the internet public, not Ben's integrity as a journalist. One day if everyone holds it together there is, I believe, a possibility that gaming journalism will become at least tolerated if not accepted.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 5:41:31 PM

Man...one can only hope.

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Troy Powers
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 5:20:33 PM
Reply

Man, when was the last time a video game had the internets aflame like this?

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Joe_III
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 5:29:03 PM

Resistance 2 over at metacritic

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aaronisbla
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 2:10:08 AM

it did? it somehow went over my head, i blame little big planet

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The_R0gue_Ninja
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 5:39:49 PM
Reply

I think it's funny that so many people took Ben's editorial, exposing the falsehood that is Edge's KZ2 review, the wrong way. If any of those people had actually read the piece, it would have - let me rephrase that - should have been evident to them that it was not, in any way a fanboy written article. I commend Arnold and Ben for defending their site as not being a "fansite", which it certainly is not.

As for Edge's review bringing down the overall score on Metacritic and Gamerankings, I would hope most people notice that it is a statistical outlier, and judge their purchase on the other scores.

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food86
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 6:22:26 PM
Reply

oh man my respect for this site and ben and arnold and the entire staff at psxextreme gets bigger everyday, nice to see that people will come out and help and appreciate ben for what he is a great writer. Seriously people need to read things before commenting. this is the reason why we see so many problems on the web. people just don't do enough research. Thankfully sites like psxextreme have us covered with extensive news and well defined articles that provide us with unbiased news,articles, and stories that we as gamers want to hear on a daily basis. kudos ben. as long as psxextreme is around you guys have my support.

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jdt1981
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 6:25:28 PM
Reply

I read Ben's original edge article and these follow up articles and I don't get what all the fuss is about. Has anyone complaining about Ben's article actually read Edge's "review"? I read the review which is more like a rant. Most of the review was complaining how bad a certain character is and how weak the story is. So you think the characters and story in KZ2 are weak? Fine but does that need to be the dominating content of your review? Things like gameplay, graphics and sound were barely discussed in the "review" in the span of one or two paragraphs. If you're going to give KZ2 a 7 that's fine but put some actual content and details in your written review that explains why one of the most hyped games deserves an average rating. That's what the real problem is with the edge "review" and I believe that's what ben was trying to say in his original article about this.

It's like they settled on a score first and then slapped together a "review" to try and support that score. The thing is the review lacks allot of content and details and anyone who actually reads it can see how poorly written it is. The problem is in this day and age of metacritic most people don't bother reading reviews they just glance at the overall score and then use that to weigh their decision to buy or not.

The edge review IMO was nothing more than a publicity stunt. All they did was come up with a score that they knew would turn heads and then slapped together a rant,... I mean "review" to go along with it.

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bamf
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 6:39:28 PM
Reply

All the haters of this site are the xbox fanboys. They'll get on Ben's case over the Edge review articles because they practically wanted KZ2 to fail. Very much like the 'Hilter hates KZ2' vids on youtube, very funny. All the xbox fanboys have ignored all the top scoring reviews that KZ2 has recieved and are using Edge's review as evidence to why KZ2 sucks.
How would the xbots reacted if Gears 2 got a 7 from Edge? The same way the rest of us in here perhaps?

Last edited by bamf on 2/12/2009 6:39:59 PM

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LCF
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 6:42:02 PM
Reply

Since the start of this gen of game consoles, you see alot more "FANBOYS" screaming on the net then as before. The net has become so easy to access for people to voice their opinion and with this anyone can start a gaming site or blog.

Reviews IMO should be done by people that love the genre(Yes that means hiring more people). They also must own all consoles of the current gen. Make no mistake this is a JOB and if you want to be a reviewer you must own all. Unless you are a dedicated site.

To make my point from above about specific people for specific genres. If a reviewer was playing a action/adventure game and enjoyed it and gave it a postive review. I can tell you when he reviews a FPS he will still be thinking about how much he had fun with the action/adventure game and look at the FPS with those eyes. So he'll nit-pick to death and miss anything no matter how small that might actually be an improvement within the FPS genre. This can be applied to all genres.

Or come across a reviewer who has little exp. with the genre. So when he reviews that game a couple of things could happen. Like he could think that it was the most innovated thing since toasted bread and did not have the exp. to fall back on to know it was done before. On the flipside it could of not been innovative but has been polished so well that his inexperience made him miss it.

Then there is the "FANBOY". But most if not all are just inexperienced people that just blindly follow fads. 1st time I exp. "FANBOYS" was with the cabbage patch dolls during the 80's. Everywhere you turned it was in your face. Thank the lord that died. Would you pay $5,000 for one of those dolls that only took $4 to make?. Who could not forget tickle me elmo?.

I have my reasons(many of them) not to support microsoft and are real legit reasons with proof to back it. My console of choice is Sony's PS3, does that make me a fanboy? No it doesn't. I have stated many times at this site as to why I don't back microsoft. In my professional opinion I feel microsoft is hurting the gaming industry, just like everything else they touch. If the X360 was made by some other company I bet you would not see so many problems as you do today. Yes all companies have problems...but not this many, EVER!.

To recap. IMO game sites that do offical reviews should have specific people for specific genres. Would you want a mechanic to be your doctor/surgeon?. They basically do the same thing. However they only good at what they do specifically. Thats how reviewers should be with genres.

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 5:20:31 PM

Touching all bases and I cannot argue with anything.

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xnonsuchx
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 6:44:35 PM
Reply

I too am sick of the "innovative" REQUIREMENT some people seem to have. If something is GOOOD (or great) as-is, rate it on its own merits. If everything new had to greatly innovate over past things, then some 98% of them should be rated avg at best. Does EDGE require ALL games they review to be very innovative to get above a 7 out of 10? I think if you examine their history of reviews, that would hardly be the case at all. And I believe if that's the case, it's called HYPOCRISY.

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The_R0gue_Ninja
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 6:59:32 PM
Reply

That is something I've been noticing with Game Informer lately. Not hypocrisy, obviously, but more emphasis on what is "innovative". Now, I love it when a game comes along that completely renovates a gameplay style, or a genre, but I do not consider a game as a flop if if it does not hold such characteristics. If a game does what it was developed to do, and it does it well, I consider that a success.

I used to, and still mostly do, agree totally with Game Informer's reviews. However, I have been noticing that they do, somewhat, give a game a little negative edge (no pun intended) if it does not innovate.

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Fatcat3788
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 7:03:39 PM
Reply

Ben... You better know by now that people come to this site because you interact with us. Don't back out on interacting with us. We like to read your opinions and we also like to see our opinions being acknowledged. I hope you realize that. When the dust settles the people who want to be here will be here and the ones who don't will be elsewhere.

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jerocarson
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 7:23:41 PM
Reply

thank GOD!
if every gaming sites could follow this ideology, gammers wouldn't have problems, gammers wouldn't be seen as piece of sh@t
to say that Edge has completely lost it's conceicence, credibility and purpose is to say the obvious.
Ben, i know i could always count on you, you are not baised, concidering the fact that this is a playstation community, you still desplay that sense of maturity.....
i must not fail to commend your efforts, together with that of Arnord. psxe happens to be my favoutite..
'when u see what's wrong, it is very important to correct' you have done just that.
cheers.




Last edited by jerocarson on 2/12/2009 7:27:33 PM

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xnonsuchx
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 8:08:30 PM

Don't bring my gammer into this...she's 88 and can't defend herself here! ;-)

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apofisboricua
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 7:34:07 PM
Reply

Hey Ben:
Ive been visiting this site for tha past year and never registered before so this is my first post. Excuse my writting Im from Puerto Rico and English is our second language.

To the point: Im an old gamer. Im 32 years old. Ive played almost every console since the Atari 2600. Last gen I bougth all the consoles and this gen I have bougth the PS3 and the xbox 360. I prefeer the PS3 just for its exclusives wich I feel are all underrated. I also like mi 360 but it has been more of a headache to me because it has died 3 times. Anyway I always enjoy reading your article because I as a gamer can see that you speak with the truth and aint no fanboy.

I respect that in any writer but I enjoy most of your articles because I believe you are more mature than other writers that are just starting their carrer and didnt love the games just the brand of the console. I saw your post over the internet an d saw these types of people complaining and sometimes insulting you for telling just the truth.

Keep the good work man...this industry specially the press need more people like you. In a side note I visited Ars Technica site and I cant believe that the posters there are a bunch of fanboys who think they are samarter because of the site "more technological" aprroach to games. Really; I enyoyed the wars in the genesis and SNES era...but that time they were more friendy and less shamefull...THANKS BEN!

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:06:22 PM

You're welcome, and thanks for registering. Welcome. :)

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/12/2009 9:20:46 PM

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 9:49:17 AM

I love puerto Rican Woman...latino fever!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 6:54:24 PM

welcome, I stink at other languages so I commend you sir. Your English is good.

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jerocarson
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 8:02:21 PM
Reply

to say that Edge is Dumb! is an understatement.

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Scarecrow
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 8:07:42 PM
Reply

What? EDGE has beef with psextreme? Oh hell no!

Edge should back the hell off, those bastards are a diservice to v-games as a whole.

If anything psxextreme empahsizes that fanboyism from either side is not good.

They emphasize truth whether it hurts a console or not.

Sony's advertising sucks, the price of the console is still kinda high, no backwards compatibility, etc.

Here at psextreme will tell it like it is. But when we go out and say that 360's RROD garbage is insane which it is we're just stating the truth.

In fact there isn't a gaming site in the web I respect more than psextreme, not even psu when it comes down to it.

If anything Edge should be apologizing to the whole gaming community!

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Doosharm
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 8:28:27 PM
Reply

I've been reading this site for years but have never been moved to join the community until now...

To be honest with you Ben, when you first started writing regularly for PSXExtreme, I didn't like you. To me, you kind of came off as being an Xbox fanyboy. You seemed to be too hard on the PS3 and it kind of pissed me off. Then I saw that you were also writing for the Xbox sister site and I thought it was all part of some crazy conspiracy. I couldn't believe Arnold ever hired you!

But, after the initial shock, I actually started to listen to what you were saying and it made a lot of sense. I learned that you weren't the fanboy, I was. In fact, I would list you and your articles as the main driving force behind my purchase of a 360 and my open-mindedness towards other platforms with your recent article on the PS3/360 combo reflecting my current views exactly.

With the line between being honest and getting attention becoming smaller and smaller and more and more game magazines/sites seemingly in the pockets of the publishers this is the one publication that I feel I can actually trust to provide honest and accurate game reviews. And even if some feathers do get rustled every now and again, at least you guys haven't sold out. 'Nuff said.

Thanks Ben and PSXExtreme,
DJ

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GuernicaReborn
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:02:30 PM

That brought a tear to my eye. Good stuff Doosharm.

Last edited by GuernicaReborn on 2/12/2009 9:02:45 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:05:37 PM

That was awesome, thank you. Believe it or not, I never for one second - before this mess - believed I really had any impact on anyone. I just did my job and that was that. I WAS in the public eye more when I worked for the papers; I thought coming online would make me completely anonymous. I really didn't think I'd "help" or "hurt" anyone.

But now I've realized how much of an impact my words can have. It's good to know what I said helped you, and I'm going to have to be careful with my words in the future.

And if this isn't a testimonial to my completely unbiased approach to gaming, and how I handle the news for PSXE in a non-skewed way, nothing is. :)

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 5:25:08 PM

Wow. Yes Ben, your words have more of a personalized zing to it. You don't come off as a robot behind a screen.

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fuk u
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:03:13 PM
Reply

i love the info about the PS3! on this site, along with the games... Just dont become a bitchy this bitchy that site, thats all i got to say.

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jerocarson
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:28:08 PM
Reply

ben,
beleive it or not, you have made alot of impact on a lot of people, and i happen to be one of them.
sumtime i just wish i could see or have a personal chat with you. m not flattering, i am speaking reality straight from my mind. i realy love psxe.
we always count on you, dont EVER let us down.
stay put.


Last edited by jerocarson on 2/12/2009 9:31:20 PM

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Akuma07
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 9:39:50 PM
Reply

The more i interact with readers here, the more i realise, the regulars, are more like a PSXE family these days.

With Ben and Arnold being our parents. =]

hahahaha.

I personally, have learnt to take a more open-minded approach to gaming over the last couple of weeks, through the forum here.

I was even the one trying to expose a possible RROD for the ps3 =]
which for those of you who dont read the forums, is nothing =]

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ps92117
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 10:17:10 PM
Reply

jeez ben people are going out of there way for you, says alot, though I have not been impacted as much, I think you killed a bit of my fanboyism(if only just a bit) and realy psx is simply better than all the other sites I visit and trust me I visit a hell lot of them. by the way I am not allowed in the forum, why did I do something bad?

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PSN _HAITIAN_JB
Thursday, February 12, 2009 @ 11:32:15 PM
Reply

Like I said before PSXE RULES
Ben & Arnold are the man
and today I finally get that RROD fear out of my chest and I bought a 360 Elite with a copy of GOW 2 but I haven't get the XBL yet now I'm broke but later on this week I'll have a Tag but just hope I don't get that rrod cause I'm going to play the hell of that machine.

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Fabi
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 12:55:15 AM
Reply

Awesome job Ben, I know I'm just one of the many readers who love reading your words. I might not always agree with them, but I always have a feeling that you truly stand behind what you say, and aren't just saying them to have something to write about.

You and Arnold keep up the good work, as long as your community respects you and knows what you're about, that's all you need. I don't post as much as I used to, but believe me, I'm a Psxextreme addict! I'm on it at home, at work, and on my G1.

Keep bringing us that PSX flavor!

Last edited by Fabi on 2/13/2009 12:55:39 AM

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Deleted User
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 1:06:31 AM
Reply

Ben & Arnold should be proud. They exposed EDGE Magazine as the frauds they are. I'm glad there are still people who believe in integrity and honesty on the Internet in regards to video game journalism.

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englishgolfer
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 2:51:37 AM
Reply

this is, and will always be, the first game site i turn to when cranking up the internet. keep up the work ben!

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convergecrew
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 2:52:38 AM
Reply

I just came back from playing 18 holes and everything is in meltdown! Wow...Maybe Ill just head back to the course until this passes over and try to shoot under 100.

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soli
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 3:08:07 AM
Reply

hey ben, been following this site for 2 years now..this is the 1st time ive decided to comment on anything..
Am with 100% on this.Just know that you have a lot of people backing you up =)
As for EDGE i dont think they even deserve any more attention..

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theturk
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 3:26:00 AM
Reply

Well said my friend

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ceedot
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 4:18:31 AM
Reply

It probobly wasn't the article, but the irrelivant comments that put YOUR community down. Calling them adolescent and wrong is not a way of support. You went overboard and there is really no excuse.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 5:39:29 AM
Reply

It's all a bit handbags at dawn.

Edge are incorrect in their review. Flowery content and a low score - there's no substance to their review, they should be ashamed of the editorial.

By the same token, psx should not really have risen to the bait.

Comments are fine because it's the community talking, they are only reacting to the original articles. therefore, it's upto the original journos to present consistent lines throughout articles.

To me, seeing all this pan out has been most amusing.

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HighLife
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 6:05:47 AM
Reply

Ben I hope this doesn't change they way you write your articles nor what you write about.

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chicko1983
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 7:35:57 AM
Reply

I totally agree with the original article and hopefully the people who have slammed it have come back and read, actually read and understand this time, this article as well as Arnold's.
Personally though, I think PSXE is one of the best sites for news, previews and reviews of anything ps3 related and that is what keeps making me come back here - not the editorials.

Last edited by chicko1983 on 2/13/2009 7:36:53 AM

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Kingharris
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 7:40:05 AM
Reply

So, Littlebigplanet got 100/100 and they're GOTY and you guys label them 'Microsoft Fanboys. Bit of a novelty, no?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:26:16 AM

I didn't label them anything.

And on average, Edge scores PS3 games 30% lower than any other source.

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Skatejimmy5
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 8:06:28 AM
Reply

"PSX Extreme has, and will continue to be, your #1 source for the best in PlayStation content."

Yes, thank you very much. :D

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Sir Shak
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 8:48:07 AM
Reply

Ben you just got vindicated . The House of The Dead: Overkill on the wii got an 8 from edge . When asked about it, the developer of the game said he "skipped on his way home." Then went on to say how much effort was put into their game and how awesome it was to be rated higher than Killzone 2.

Thus, proving Ben's point that a bullshit numerical score does have an impact on the market.

And might I dare to add that a zombie game is no more of an innovation than an fps , the thing Edge bends over for while reviewing games.

Last edited by Sir Shak on 2/13/2009 8:49:04 AM

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 9:51:46 AM

lol Wow.

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 5:28:47 PM

!!!IMPORTANT!!!
People need to read that comment above!!!

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pyro117
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 9:46:28 AM
Reply

I am new to the site and just wanted to let Ben know that the articles didn't chase everyone away. I found it to be refreshingly honest - something I don't see very often in gaming journalism anymore.

I did review Ben's initial aricle, the Edge review and the 2 subsequent articles. I do agree with what Ben was trying to do in his first article and still agree. I also applaud Ben/PSXExtreme for actually repsonding to the chatter in such a professional manner.

Thanks and keep up the great work you guys are doing.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 9:57:40 AM
Reply

Everyone might not be posting on this anymore, so it may fall on deaf ears, but here's my two cents. It doesn't matter the score they gave. I love looking at reviews as much as anyone, I recently came back to video games after a 3 year semi hiatus after buying a PS3 and I am more into it than ever (maybe cause I am kinda bored these days). SO I go to alot of video game sites. I came across some review for an X360/Wii game about some bikini killers or something. Apparently gamepro didn't like the game and they said it sucked. There were all these people enraged about the review and calling them bad journalists and unprofessional. Despite that a reviewer should try to remain objective, video games are so subjective. Here lies the rub, it is nearly impossible to remain objective. There are so many components and everyone feels that different ones are worth more weight. So who cares if edge game KZ2 a 7. If you like it, and you play it, it doesn't matter. Mos people who buy games (or systems) don't go to metacritic, only the dorks like me, and probably a lot of you. It's not going to sell systems on the metacritic mark, it will on the commercials however. Just forget about it and let them have their opinion. I was sickened at the vile remarks these people that thought this game should be good had for the gamepro reviewer. Leave it alone.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:20:07 AM
Reply

@migabyte

<b>video games are so subjective</B>

Games might be but reviews shouldnt be.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:20:35 AM
Reply

Although it's kind of funny to read the remarks on the gamepro review:

http://www.gamepro.com/article/reviews/208812/onechanbara-bikini-samurai-squad/

Kind of makes me think of some of these guys:

http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-top-7-stereotypical-gamers-we-hate/a-2008032410612871091
the games radar guys are funny, I like their articles.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:22:33 AM
Reply

@Digital Storm

The games are what the reviews are about.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:25:51 AM
Reply

There are a lot more components in a game than say a movie. There is performance, enjoyment, and value. All these components can be broken down into any number of sub components. All which have different weight depending on the reviewer.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:30:09 AM

agreed - but when reviewing - it is up to said reviewer to maintain a consistent stance.

Thereby eliminating the games are so subjective comment.

This is what "enraged" som many people about the KZ2 review.

You cant effectively base a total score on the story and originality. You might as well be reviewing a movie.

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Norman D
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:34:29 AM
Reply

wow, there's already alot of comments on here, but that's a good thing :)
thanks again for being a shining light in the world of videogame-journalism Ben
it's good to have at least one site where things are just "said like it is"
it's hard these days to not pick a side but it's just growing pains for the industry, most of us are still getting out of our moody teenage years (no matter how old we are) and some are already grown up. I honestly don't believe that most reviewers know what they mean when they say they wwant something in a game, for example: innovation? it's not in very many games in the past couple of years, what we have is technological innovation and not as much gameplay innovation but still, there's more subtle innovations happening in every game....just look at the high-rated games of late, hoe much "innovation" is in them?? not much, if any

to use a paraphrased quote as an analogy "you got to be good-looking 'cause your so hard to see" keep being good-lookin Ben

Last edited by Norman D on 2/13/2009 10:37:20 AM

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:44:38 AM
Reply

Ya,
I glanced at "the review". The thing is no one would even see it if it weren't for metacritic. I was a PS1 fanboy before the stupid word existed (I pioneer I like to consider myself, a pioneer of a evil race of dorks). But I grew up, got a job (many), had kids (no, just kidding). I love games, and love looking at the sites and stuff, but I just don't care, and neither should you. I probably won't even buy KZ2 (RE5 is more my fancy), and a lot of people who were angered by this probably won't either. It's not worth your anger. In summation: Being a fanboy won't last forever, just enjoy what you have, and hope that others do as well.
P.S. I never want to type the word fanboy again, I hate that stupid word.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 10:51:17 AM

I disagree.

Everyone who was going to buy KZ2, still will. People know more about the game than to take edge's review seriously. tbh honest I think the press KZ2 is ghetting recently will probablysway the marginals in favours as well.

(PS I'm not a fanboy - i own a pc - doenst everyone?)

(NB: I too had a PS1, etc..., and I have 3 kids in addition (no kidding))

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:10:38 AM
Reply

Then we agree digital, it has no bearing on anything. Thank you for proving my point (not sounding smug, no hard feelings).
P.S. Yes we all own PC's, but probably not ones that can play decent games (I could never get into PC gaming, wrong card this, wrong RAM that).

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:15:00 AM
Reply

smugness? you need to read your post again!

(not sounding smug, no hard feelings)

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:16:31 AM
Reply

"Proving my point"
Kinda smug, no?

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:18:17 AM

Stop being pedantic

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:17:13 AM
Reply

I direct you towards your comment...

"and a lot of people who were angered by this probably won't either"

Why should this be the case?

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:18:19 AM
Reply

Anyways, read that Gamepro liked I posed and read the people's thoughts on the review. The world doesn't need that. Also the only people who notice these score are people who love their Xbox's and hate PS3's, and the exact opposite. No normal people care.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:19:33 AM
Reply

Are you saying "normal" people dont read reviews or take even a base interest in review scores?

Last edited by DigitalStorm on 2/13/2009 11:20:00 AM

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:21:57 AM

apols - I was being pedantic.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:21:09 AM
Reply

I stand by that statement. It's (word I shall not type) getting all riled up.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:23:26 AM
Reply

I'm not saying that they don't read them, they just don't discern between a 94 and a 92 meta. It's good, or bad, that's usually what I do for movies.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:26:51 AM

eh?

to all intents and purposes 92 and 94 are the same.

92/93 and 70 - now there's a difference!

Anyways got to go home - better things to do.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:24:51 AM
Reply

You cared enough to post?

If it wasnt for community discussing/arguing/flaming as we all do these sites would exist. They rely on all of this rubbish. That's why they write as such...

...to initiate discussing/arguing/flaming.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 12:36:58 PM

WRONG. And if you think we either rely on it or will even TOLERATE it, I would suggest leaving. This is NOT a system wars forum so please, spare us the drama.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 1:09:39 PM

Ben,

Both of us know sites like psx, meta, edge rely on advertising revenue.

Who are you advertising to?

It would be a lack of foresight to realise this, and if you want to ban people from making comments - then go ahead.

You are meant to administrate/moderate not incite.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 1:12:59 PM

Our advertising campaigns don't rely on what you're talking about, so just drop it. We have a purpose at this site, and it has absolutely nothing to do with adolescent sensationalism. Seriously, look around.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 1:22:05 PM

Oh come now ben, grow up.



Last edited by DigitalStorm on 2/13/2009 1:22:57 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 2:05:07 PM

I think we all know who needs to grow up.

Insist on arguing and flaming on any part of this site, and you will be gone.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 4:29:34 PM

Another human failure.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 6:45:03 PM

Jes,

this thing has hit you hard hasn't it?

I'm not arguing with you - you were the one to wade in giving it the big I am.

I haven't flamed you - but your tone with me on the other hand...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 8:41:20 PM

Right. Telling me to "grow up" isn't flaming in the slightest.

...you spend too much time in certain places to understand the concept of civility.

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ceedot
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:21:50 PM

Ben, you tell people frequently that they are adolescent or need to grow up.

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DigitalStorm
Saturday, February 14, 2009 @ 8:34:51 AM

ceedot - I wasnt going to mention it because he hadn't realised...

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:27:46 AM
Reply

Game reviews have become so inflated anyways. So many games get like 90's these days. The whole review industry needs to come back to earth. Maybe that's what Edge was doing. 70% ain't bad. I have never played Gears2 but the idea I get is that it's similar to part one, and with a corny story (kind of the same things that are being said about KZ2). These are pretty big knocks, and both games (although I have never played either), should not be 100%. That's just what I think.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:33:19 AM
Reply

But it only effected the meta score a couple points, how many people really care about edge mag....I've never even heard of it before last week.
Ya, your right, I did care enough to post, but I am not a normal consumer. I like games more than most average people. But The gamepro thing kind got me riled up, people should relax about review scores. But music is my other relax about passion, and if someone gave radiohead a 50%, I would be mad, but I would also think "who cares, they are stupid anyways".

Anyways, nice debating with you, I guess we agree to disagree (But I kind of still think that we agree).

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 6:45:50 PM

yep - sort of.

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 11:34:17 AM
Reply

"other relax about passion"
reads
"other passion"

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Nynja
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 12:49:54 PM
Reply

HAHA! Love that pic!

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Trarman
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 1:09:02 PM
Reply

If I were to rank review sources much like they rank the games they review, I'd give PSXExtreme 9/10 easily. It has been my most trusted resource for Playstation news since the PS2 era.
Just wanted to express my thanks, and kudos to the fine authors of this site.

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big6
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 1:54:46 PM
Reply

Well, to argue "innovation" is pretty weak. I mean, how many games have come out in recent memory that are totally original and innovative?
I'd say a handful, and none of them sold as well as ones that were rehashes of popular titles.

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Robochic
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 5:19:18 PM
Reply

I have been coming to PSXExtreme for many years but took me awhile to register (needed the feel of the website and the people on it) and i have to say I LOVE IT HERE! the articles are great and interesting and you meet alot of nice people for the most part. I have friends who come on this site just to read reviews. It's hard to find a nonbias review now a days and i believe ben and arnold deliver that. BTW i come on to this website 3 times a day ;) i'm on mat leave and when i have the free time when my daughter is sleeping i use it on this website :)

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 5:33:47 PM

Kew, milf gamers. lol j/k

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 2/13/2009 5:34:29 PM

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jerocarson
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 6:02:49 PM
Reply

@digitalstorm
you are hopeless, arrogant, plain, dull, dumb unassuming and unintellegent.

Ben, great work!
1luv.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 8:43:19 PM

No flaming. Simple. It includes everyone including jerocarson...so everyone knock it off.

Digital, I know you're only here to cause problems. ...let's see how long that lasts.

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DigitalStorm
Saturday, February 14, 2009 @ 3:38:55 AM

Not at all - I had a perfectly valid point that sites rely on traffic for survival.

Advertising is intrinsically linked to traffic.

It's what makes the web go round.

Whatever you think about my comment re discussing/arguing/flaming - it still stands as a valid point. You just picked out flaming without giving credence first two items; both of which are perfectly acceptable traits in a personality.

If you don’t argue, then I'd classify that as unheathly and downright weird.

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DigitalStorm
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 6:46:34 PM

see Ben - this is flaming.

Gonna stand for it?

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migabyte
Friday, February 13, 2009 @ 9:04:05 PM
Reply

Innovation isn't everything, but it is important. I can't speak about KZ2, I haven't played it. But for me GTA5 didn't deserve such good reviews. I own the game, and while I had some fun with it, I ultimately got bored and never beat it. It's the same as it's always been, which is good for some, but it's not for everyone(like me). I hate the way characters move in GTA. People can say the same about RE, but your not running around the city for half the game, your constantly in action. Why do characters in GTA jump like that, it's so silly! GTA 5 should have been a 85-90% game.

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BikerSaint
Saturday, February 14, 2009 @ 3:06:00 AM
Reply

Ben,
Keep on standing by your guns, bro!

You, Arnold & the rest of the staff is what make this site so great!

Don't ever let the bastards wearyou down!

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homer4
Saturday, February 14, 2009 @ 1:38:52 PM
Reply

Ben,
Though I understand your point of view I simply disagree with it for a few reasons.
Edge scores on average are lower. Look on their statistics page on Gamerankings; they review, on average 12.3% lower on the games they review compared to everyone else. 7 in Edge's review system isn't the definition of an average game; its a good one. So to compare their score as like for like is silly in my opinion. Their isnt a standard unit for Opinion whatever gamerankings may think. If you did try to standardise an EDGE review , a 7 would be about 8 which is, though below average, is hardly an outlier.
Also, Opinion is opinion. If the writer is frustrated by this game for whatever reason it is their opinion. Do you think a writer should give something a higher score just because he believes he needs to be part of a critical consensus. Now that would by lying to the consumer. And before someone suggests the reviewer should be completly objective, just think what that means. Though its important to be free of bias (which I'm sure such a long running and well respected multi format magazine is), a review is still inherently an opinion piece. So to suggest that a person shouldnt put their opinion in a review, that's just doesn't make any sense. If they don't think its a must buy for their average reader, that's their opinion.



Last edited by homer4 on 2/14/2009 1:40:19 PM

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