: Editorial: Do Games Need To Be More Emotional?

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Editorial: Do Games Need To Be More Emotional?

Here's the thing: when developers first attempted to institute realistic emotions into video games, it was amateur-hour for quite some time. We all remember the cheesy and downright painful and although the industry has taken great strides since, I'm wondering if everything is still too one-dimensional...

As advanced as games have become, the writers still haven't managed to really push past the predictable and even cliched. Perhaps the Metal Gear Solid franchise and a few RPGs here and there are the exceptions to the rule, but considering all the technology and voice talent designers have at their disposal, I'd like to think we could explore more of the human condition through video games. At this point, it seems inevitable that games will continue to inch closer to movies in terms of realistic special effects and CGI and all that, but artistic drama will be left far behind. For my part, I expect feeling to be a part of my entertainment experiences; I've long since grown bored with new and flashier ways to blow something up. Unfortunately, this adolescent emphasis seems to have rubbed off on the video game industry.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for technological advances, but when we have to sacrifice the emotional IQ of the characters we see on screen, the production loses a great deal of appeal in my eyes. When I go to the movie theater (which is rare these days), I want to see some substance, but I'm starting to wonder if I'll have to spend more time at stage theaters. The good news is that I've seen fantastic potential in games and I freely admit to having cried at certain video games in the past. When Aeris died...? The end of MGS3...? C'mon, if you didn't have a few tears in your eyes, you were either braindead or a robot. But how come I haven't had more experiences like this? Given the rapid rate of advancement in the industry, one would assume I would've had many, many more. Perhaps we just need better scripts. Perhaps developers need to realize that the performances are quickly becoming crucially important; almost as important as the gameplay, graphics, sound and other technical categories.

I just hope there are enough gamers out there who will reward someone who eventually produces an intensely emotional game script. Because one day, someone is gonna try and if they're not rewarded, we'll just be stuck with more over-the-top action titles and FPSs. Not that that's a bad thing, per se...I'm just saying.

8/14/2009 Ben Dutka

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Comments (88 posts)

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:13:45 PM
Reply

I would agree with you, but Valkyria Chronicles was amazing. I'll admit, there were a few moments i got a little teary. VC had the perfect amount of everything.
It does seem, though, that only RPGs focus on character development enough to evoke any kind of emotion.
Keep in mind that good feelings count too. Little Big Planet always leaves me with a huge grin when i'm done playing.
And as far as "over-the-top action titles" go, God of War does a good job of bringing Kratos to life during the cut scenes.
A lot of games are emotionless, or are just absolute wrecks (gta4), but the few that get it right do such a good job that i dont care.

Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 8/14/2009 11:15:29 PM

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556pineapple
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:53:03 PM

I have to disagree with you just a tad. Although GTA 4 wasn't as good as it could have been in this respect, it was leaps and bounds better than any of the PS2 GTAs. Even though the gameplay got a bit boring and repetitive, it was the story that kept me going. To be honest, I still haven't finished Vice City because the story really wasn't that engaging for me.

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furbiesmustdie
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:02:10 AM

yeah but the whole "emotion" thing needs to be used a little bit more ressponsibly. like in killzone 2 trying to make us give a crap about our generic allies. and gears of war 2 going all "wherz moi wife" on us. it's rubbish!

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Nerull
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:46:01 PM
Reply

Completely agree, except for the MGS part. Only played 4 but the cutscenes were practically torture to sit through, not at all because of their length, but because it was the cheesiest acting I've seen in a game since shaolin monks, and that was supposed to be cheesy. Most overhyped game since Halo.
I'd love another legacy of kain though.

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Scarecrow
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:56:16 PM

Legacy of Kain?

Um...you sure you're sober?

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Dridion
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:37:05 AM

Dude, you've only played MGS4 so I'm going to cut you some slack but this is the reason why you should NEVER jump over every other part and just play the last cause of HYPE. NEVER get caught in the hype bro. It's sad because this game is FAR from cheesy. In fact this game has a better story than most Hollywood movies and better voice acting than animes out there today. By playing the previous 3 it conditions you on what to expect. You should do it. Just saying.

Last edited by Dridion on 8/15/2009 1:38:29 AM

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phantomMenace
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:43:12 AM

Sorry but I have to completely disagree with you I understand if MGS wasn't your thing but considering you have almost no backstory to it doesnt help your odds of sitting through the cutscenes. And Unless I just missed it the 5 times I have beaten the game, I don't remember the acting being bad. In fact as Ben said, it was quite good.
Though I do agree with the need for better scripting and more emotion hopefully EA has completely redone the script for Army of Two and fired the old writer who only knew three words aparently. This was one game that I could hardly stand to play.

Last edited by phantomMenace on 8/15/2009 1:44:48 AM

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mackid1993
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:48:44 PM
Reply

noooo, boss, snake, why????? waaaaaaah!!!!! :(

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556pineapple
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:50:17 PM
Reply

The MGS series, I believe is among the best at conveying this, although on more than one occasion the voice acting left a bit to be desired. But that doesn't matter too much because the storytelling is phenomenal.

The more emotion conveyed, the closer into the story you are drawn. If they add some real human emotion, you began to either relate to them more, or hate them more. That basic aspect of human emotion can do so much for the game. I was talking to an employee at Target when I bought Red Faction: Guerilla, and we got into a discussion about games. I mentioned MGS4, and he said "No way I'd pay that much for a movie." I shook my head and said "Really, you're missing out on a fantastic experience." Without the cut scenes, cheesy though they may be, MGS4 wouldn't have been nearly as good, imho.

Not all people are going to be impressed with character development and emotional depth, but for me, it's what separates a good game from a great game. Let's hope the industry gets better at it.

Last edited by 556pineapple on 8/14/2009 11:56:06 PM

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Scarecrow
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:55:03 PM

Have to agree
As much as I love FFX, Thousand Arms, among others MGS far surpasses them.

Less predictable, and just more perplexing overall. Really deep stuff.

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Scarecrow
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:54:08 PM
Reply

Rpgs...
Oh how I miss them

Just imagine a REAL next-gen rpg which not only looks good, but uses technology to really show more emotion and substance in their story lines.

It would be great to have ps1-ish rpgs made in ps3 technology. It's weird how I still consider past rpgs more engaging in terms of emotions and overall substance than most current rpgs.

There's nothing like situations where characters actually have a reason to laugh, a reason to feel pain, or even affection.

That's the difference between humans and animals. When media(v-games) push our emotions there's no way you'll ever forget that game<------very important

Where here's the good news: Heavy Rain
Just hope to see more rpgs going forward

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556pineapple
Friday, August 14, 2009 @ 11:59:32 PM

I am SO looking forward to Heavy Rain. I'll probably play through it 15 times to try to explore as many outcomes as possible.... well maybe not literally, but I'd like to think I will.

Last edited by 556pineapple on 8/15/2009 12:02:17 AM

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The_R0gue_Ninja
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:04:09 AM
Reply

I agree that more FPSs and over-the-top action games would give less variety to our gaming choices, but I'm sure some of those titles can pull some emotional heartstrings.

Call of Duty 4 for instance. That game's ending, even though it was simple, really stuck with me. There was a real bonding for me with Gaz and Capt. Price that no other FPS has matched.

The story of Kratos' past in the first God of War really struck me too. It wasn't so much a feeling of sadness, but of true hopelessness. No other action title has achieved that feeling.

Can anyone think of other not well known titles that have deep emotional qualities to them?





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The_R0gue_Ninja
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:06:11 AM

...... um, not that CoD4 & GoW aren't well known. :P

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sunspider13
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 4:54:08 AM

I would have to agree that the first GoW really had that feeling of hopelessness and desperation that had me from when I pressed start.

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Alienange
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 11:17:19 AM

GoW is a roller-coaster of emotion. It's what made the game so fantastic. One moment you're grabbing a key and kicking an innocent off a boat, the next you're seeing how he lost his family ... it all adds up to one wild ride.

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Godslim
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 3:57:48 PM

games that made me feel an emotinal bond to them r

cod4- as rogue ninja said most would just say its only an fps but i found the ending to be emotional as i grown to luv cpt price and gaz :(
mgs4- obviously lol just the end of an epic journy and i always had the hope snake didnt die
FFX- absouluty epic story and so emotional
god of war

i luv the adding of a great story and making people connect with it emotionally and wish more games did it

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:09:57 AM
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Yeah things have been a tad shallow so far this gen but hopefully some of the 2010 RPGs will fill in the gap.

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Fatcat3788
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:12:25 AM
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All I have to say is... "The Last Guardian"

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:59:15 AM

Looking forward to it.

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Kai200X
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:32:39 AM
Reply

I'm a pretty emotional guy, so if there are emotions in the game, I'll get emotional too. I don't know about you guys, but when I play a game, I always become the character I play. I was pretty emotional when I play games such as MGS4, Ico and SoTC just to name a few.

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BigBoss4ever
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:51:26 AM

i assume you will again be touched by the music and immense scale of the last guardian :)

with u fully on that

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sunspider13
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 4:57:48 AM

I got a small lump in my throat when I saw the trailer for The Last Gaurdian, I must admit. I hope there is a happy ending for the "a boy and his mutant dog-like-thing" story.

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Kai200X
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:06:11 PM

I definitely got emotional when Aeris died... you guys probably going to laugh at me, but after she died, I visit her gravesite (the lake) so many times I lost count, and when I heard there's a way you can save her, I tried my best to find out and hoping it was real... but one thing strange did happen. I went to to the church one day and I saw her picking flowers! I was so happy but I can't interact with her, so I just stand there and just watch her.

PS: I am so looking forward to The Last Guardian

Last edited by Kai200X on 8/15/2009 12:08:14 PM

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BigBoss4ever
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:45:10 AM
Reply

i am totally with you on this Ben.

The impact of the sadly beautiful ending of MGS3 will forever stay in my head; likewise, the beatifully written dreams in Lost Odyssey had me in total obsession and ecstasy for months. However, how many these kind of games we have experienced in today's industry or in this gen? Going back, the emotions delivered by the musics and stories of Chrono Trigger, Cross, FF7 etc were never matched in today's gaming world.

Endless FPSs, endless button mashers, and to a even larger scale, the entire gaming and movie industry have gone flashier but shallower and emotionless. Such is the loss of whole generations of gamers including us.

Give 1000 points for bringing this topic up.

Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 8/15/2009 1:49:37 AM

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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:05:29 AM
Reply

I blame the popularity of FPS and the rise of these games with these thick armored bulk brutes like in Gears of War.

Though i do have to say i think its what is ruining Tekken,its having to much plot and in general making the characters look silly. i remember on Tekken 2, Kazuya had such a dominant atmosphere, i never felt that durning T5, in fact i found Jinpanachi or what eve hes called rediculous. i much prefered Tekken with just and intro and ending, the ambiguity left might have left space for me to fill something in or it could just be the style of the 90's being superior to nowadays.

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BigBoss4ever
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 4:05:55 AM

"...I blame the popularity of FPS and the rise of these games with these thick armored bulk brutes like in Gears of War." -- very well put, there is no more fitting words than wut you just wrote.

Also Tekken 2 is one of the best, so is Soul Calibur 2, GT2 etc.

P.S. If the industry stop making FPSs at all(not even one) in the entire coming year or two, i will still not miss them or beg to see them by then. The entire stock of released FPSs alone is already more than enough for this generation of consoles in my opinion. nothing further to say.

Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 8/15/2009 4:20:46 AM

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LowKey
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:18:27 AM
Reply

I got pretty emotional when Gaz got shot. I welled up like New Orleans. but yeh, most games are really crappy when it comes to trying to catch the the player up in any emotion. I say stop trying so hard to capture emotion and base it off somethig happy or sad from your life. I believe it would come to the Devs if they just remembered how they felt at that one moment, in thier life while trying to get the game to ooze mushyness.

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___________
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:54:19 AM
Reply

i think im emotional enough thank you.
you dont want to know how many DS3 controllers ive broken, and 1 guitar hero guitar.
in fact the only thing i havent broken is my TV...... im surprised its lasted this long.

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ed_winchester
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 3:39:54 AM
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Ben you my friend are an idiot. It may be hard to beleive but not everybody has completed Final Fantasy 7 and I for one have managed to stay away from any and all spoilers. Thanks for just throwing it out there without a heads up

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:25:54 AM

Shut it. If someone hasn't played FFVII by NOW, they have no INTENTION Of playing it.

And if that's the only comment you can make based on that entire piece, don't bother next time.

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Alienange
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 11:22:02 AM

Yeah, BIG FF fan there just got blindsided by an article about emotion. Hasn't played FF7 and hasn't seen FFAC. Maybe he should spend more time playing games than commenting on a news site?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:11:43 PM

Yeah, seriously dude that cat is out of the bag, I am skeptical that you didn't know as well, I think you just wanted to be a douche.

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ed_winchester
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 6:18:51 PM

@Ben, apologies for the name name-calling, I realise it was a bit harsh
@alienange, so Im not a die-hard FF fan, get over yourself
@World, I usually like what you have to say, but do you really find that so hard to believe? I genuinely didnt know. FFX was my first FF game and I like a lot of people I know are currently playing through 7 for the first time since it was released on PSN.
I realise Im speaking to the wrong crowd because I know theres a lot of RPG fans on here but each to their own

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Mornelithe
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 3:45:26 AM
Reply

We need a mix of both. Too much non-stop killing desensitizes the human mind, from what we're actually doing. This is not to say that they don't have their place, however, I do like a game that can make me feel. MGS4 is a GREAT example Ben. That was the first time I'd ever played an MGS game, and I frickin cried at the end. No bullshit. And it's good to get sucked into a storyline like that every once and awhile. No matter how long the game is, having that effect on you, really is a testament to the ability of the designers.

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Bugzbunny109
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 5:17:18 AM
Reply

"crying is okay here". Really? I have so much to cry about. Where do I start? XD

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Sir Shak
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 5:52:50 AM
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Go to David Jaffe's blog and read the latest post . It's called " You can't teach a dog to sing " . I agree with him to quite an extent about emotions in gaming .

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:27:49 AM

I read it. Dave is the MAN but he and I disagree about certain things.

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Gone
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 8:03:05 AM
Reply

Games are missing emotion because Sony removed the Emotion Chip. j/k

FFVII was emotional, especially when Sephiroth killed Aeris.

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BigBoss4ever
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:11:29 PM

"Games are missing emotion because Sony removed the Emotion Chip". LOL thats funny, but maybe there is some truth to it. ;)

Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 8/15/2009 2:12:23 PM

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 8:16:43 AM
Reply

Silent Hill 2 is the most emotional game in history. Nothing has come close since.

It is the most geniusly thought out storyline in game history and tops that of most cinema, im sure those who have experienced it will concur.

From music to cam shots to motion capture, Silent Hill 2 is the ultimate in emotional experiences in game.

The only "problem" was that it went over most heads, it was one for the more art-house lovers, not one expecting a straight forward plot.

So, yes, i think we do as it was the emotion in certain games that turned me into a hardcore gamer and will have people looking at "games" in a more mature way.

We peaked a long time ago though, we have yet to deliver a more emotional game than 2001s masterpiece and Heavy Rain has me excited....even though it would be criminal to compare it to Silent Hill 2....i should give Heavy Rain and all following games the benefit of not expecting another ground breaking art piece.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:27:18 AM

I played SH2 and while it was good for a standard action game in terms of emotion, it really can't touch many RPGs I've played. I'm assuming you don't play RPGs...?

If not, and the story in SH2 really took you, I suggest you start. ;)

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 11:34:47 AM

*MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SILENT HILL 2 IN THIS POST*

RPG is my fave genre.

my most wanted game is WKC.

Ive played all major RPGs from beginning to end.

Not one is on the level of Silent Hill 2. (a none action game btw, it was made as an experience)

Silent Hill 2 is different that's why, but strongest on all points.

It was things like discovering Angela was a victim of incestuous child molestation through symbolic references i.e. her dad being the shape of a bed with a disgusting dark blanket over it and a figure that bobs up and down and the fact that this Angela's dad/creature is found in a room which looks like flesh with holes in the walls...and a cylinder type object going in and out of them (did i just say that?), just before you enter this room, Angela screams for her daddy to stop something, or like the scene on the fiery stairs in her "house" and there's a picture on the wall of a configured female body with blood coming from the crotch section, all the while she's crying and calling you her momma....and she is not the least bit surprised you can see the fire on the stairs surrounding her too...confirming the worst for the player (if you followed the plot to this point).
She then slowly trots up the stairs through the flames.

Here's the video to that scene:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyaLoaUbExk

Look at the way its shot, the character dialogue and how its spoken (almost monotone, dreamy, as if they are drugged, as if darkness doesn't scare them...ala David Lynch), listen to the beautiful and discomforting music, feel the pace and pay attention to the scenery.

One of the most astounding scenes in game history....if you understand it. The game is loaded with it all and i have never seen anything as well thought out and as clever as it.

...and don't get me started on the ending and the shocking realisation....again, never been topped.

it was a perfect example of art in game and character development and personal discovery.
The other Silent Hill games (1-4...please ignore the butchered american versions Origins and Homecoming)) were done in similar ways but, 2 was different...a tragic love story told in a unique and beautiful way.

RPGs are the next best thing but, it will mostly be straight forward and generic. Character development is where its strong point is.

Not one other game compared to Silent Hill 2s emotional impact.

As a side note, why this game escaped censorship is beyond me....may be because...well, people may not get it! lol

I understand why some wouldn't get it of course, its just like a David Lynch film...

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 8/15/2009 12:01:48 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 11:55:57 AM

I guess. I think you're reading a lot more into SH2 than what was actually there, but whatever. In no way can SH2 compete with certain scripts I've seen for the best RPGs, although "emotion" is a very subjective thing.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:08:13 PM

Im not. The plot to Silent Hill 2, even though still being analysed to this day, has mostly been figured out with members of the team confirming a lot of it as they frequented the Silent Hill forums.

ive edited the previous post but, the point is very clear, Silent Hill 2 is to me, yet to be topped but, as you said though, it's all subjective.

Btw, look at the comments to the video link i have posted above, anybody, They share my view very strongly.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 8/15/2009 12:13:50 PM

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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:14:26 PM

Oh Silent Hill can definatly match the quality of story/plot and characters from RPGS, Silent Hill 2 was by far one of the best games last gen, probaly one of the only games that terrifies, sometimes i have to stop play because i makes me feel depressed lol.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:23:49 PM

*MAJOR SPOILERS FOR SILENT HILL 2 IN THIS POST*

Absolutely Ultima.

The "game" looks at the darkness of mankind, the darkness in everyone's hearts...the sub-conscious mind.

There are so many points i could make to point out its genius...again on Angela, she is only around 17 in the game but, they made her look much older to symbolise her mentality due to childhood rape. (Im refraining from talking about the main plot of the main character because it really is INCREDIBLE and those who don't know of it should check it out one day).
Silent Hill has the ability to make the grotesque and macabre beautiful.

James has to be the most interesting main character for a game i mean, its entirely plausible that all of the characters in Silent Hill 2 are different aspects of James' personality. Angela is his emotional torment for what he did to Mary, Eddie is his anger and frustration, and Laura is his innocence. Laura was the most vital character for James in the end, because she held the truth of everything.

Its things like this that i have spoken about TOO much in these posts lol that just seal it for me.

Whilst the game is very beautiful, it's also very grotesque and shows the worst of human kind. This is why I absolutely love it though, it is just so emotional.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 8/15/2009 12:39:20 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:40:06 PM

But that's my point. Because emotion is so subjective, it all depends in how you view SH2. The writing is hardly impressive in the slightest, and that's really the only objective part of a story.

If it gets to you, great. But beyond certain choreography and a mood setting, there isn't much of anything there that I would consider to be professional in terms of plot. The viewer is left with a lot of theories and possibilities, but that's not necessarily a good thing ALL the time. I loved SH2; don't get me wrong. Its theme and attitude is awesome. But I'm not about to say it's memorable because I honestly don't remember what happened.

On the flip side, certain RPGs (and I won't name them) remain forever branded in my brain.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 8/15/2009 12:41:08 PM

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:58:00 PM

well ben, thats because simply, you didn't understand it and you prefer the more straight forward (not a bad thing).

But, this does what a David Lynch film does, would you dare say the same about that?

Silent Hill 2 is the most well thought out story in game. Everything else feels a tad lazy compared to it...bar some.

This is backed up by, not only game critics but, many outside have expressed love and admiration for it too such as movie director Del Torro of Panz Labyrinth and Hellboy fame.

For me and many others, its the most memorable game ever and certain scenes will haunt me to this day. Its hugely inspirational.

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BigBoss4ever
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:15:19 PM

while SH2 is the best in its series, it does not even come close to some of the less emotional RPGs (they are still quite emotional nonetheless), let alone compete with the ending of MGS3 or the script in Lost Odyssey, which are some of the most emotional ones you can find in video games, just to name a few.



Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 8/15/2009 2:19:54 PM

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Scarecrow
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:32:07 PM

I have every Silent Hill to date (except the crap that Homecoming was)

And yes, SH2 is very emotional, but at the same level of say FFX or FFVIII? Not really

It was a great experience with a GREAT storyline, but in terms of emotions it doesn't top the best rpgs.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 4:31:06 PM

i'd be repeating myself if i were to fully reply to you guys.

Art is subjecttive and so is emotion.

Silent Hill 2 is highest on both of them. If the Hill spoke to you, it will have you in the midst of its beautiful poetic masterpiece of a world. If it does not, generic storytelling is for you.

Silent Hill 2 spoke to me and im an art-house lover, it is the most emotional ive ever witnessed and my gaming library consists of the FF's, xenogears, chrono, legend of dragoon, vagrant story gta, mgs, the broken swords, all the way to Shenmue. Nothing on Silent Hill 2.

of course there are games with a more 3d approach to storytelling and they tackle themes, world issues and are more profound ala mgs and most jrpgs but, its not on a lynchian Silent Hill level. This is something that is targeted at a very specific audience who will understand it. its unique and innovative.

Many people play Silent Hill as a survival horror looking to get scared....thats why they miss the point.

My previous posts say it all.

When i find a game with more depth, art, emotion, atmosphere and attention to detail, i will let you know.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 8/15/2009 4:38:15 PM

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Scarecrow
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 4:41:56 PM

Well I have every SH, so I do not play it to get scared or for survival horror purposes.

I do see its depth and understand/try to understand its plots as much as possible.

I guess it's all personal preference then. It's like the difference between genres, comparing metal to ballads will get you in trouble.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 5:35:47 PM

Yeah, i agree its down to preference totally.

I just have trouble with a person who doesn't prefer that type AND criticises it. So, i was just pointing out the fact that it is what it is and should be recognised for that whether its their preference or not.

I'll tell you something what is undeniably emotional though! Seeing Team Silent (Silent Hill creators) have their creation ripped from them and passed to a western developer and having it commercialised and butchered....just because they didn't want to continue the series nor commercialise it...

Now that is a heartbreaker.

DAMN THOSE MEN IN SUITS!!

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 8/15/2009 5:36:32 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 7:05:00 PM

Lotusflow, it'd be a terrible idea to think I didn't "understand" SH2. I don't brag about a damn thing but my literary comprehension has always been superior. I enjoy taking time to discuss novels like "The Magic Mountain" with Thomas Mann scholars. I've written reviews on everything from books to movies to games.

To assume I didn't understand something as unbelievably adolescent as SH2 isn't a good idea. As much as I love storytelling in games, there has never once been anything in this industry that is beyond my comprehension. It's still far too in the way of amateur.

Literary skill is evident in the masters. You can believe what you want, but there isn't anything remotely masterful about SH2.

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Vivi_Gamer
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 2:43:46 AM

Lol this reminds me of the scene in Woody Allen's Annie Hall. Where Alvys in the theatre line irriated by the teacher in line pontificating on movies Alvy loves, The teacher then backs up by saying his knowlegde on a certain guy, Alvy then pulls out the guy from no where and he owns the teacher.

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Lotusflow3r
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 4:56:08 AM

Ben, i'd be repeating myself again.

You can be a critic or what not but this doesn't change a thing, many critics fail to understand certain things, Twin Peaks (ironicly, the movie Silent Hill 2 mostly gets compared to) was hacked when it came out but, today, now that the public fell in love with it and the fact it needed to have a long digest, it's considered an all time movie masterpiece by those critics...critics are not inhuman, they miss points too. Having said that, and as ive previously stated, many critics have shared my view on Silent Hill 2 and many outside of the gaming industry have shown their love and admiration for it...Isn't that what we are also talking about here? Emotional impact, the importance of it and how the "game" is viewed outside of just gamers. Well, Silent Hill 2 was 2001 (the 1st 1998!) and they did what games like Heavy Rain are just beginning to do (bar the original Silent Hill's lousy voice acting).

Ben, i don't have much of a problem with your views (hence why im here!) but, what you said about Silent Hill 2 is laughable. It was groundbreaking and innovative in the storytelling aspect for games.

You could write essays on what Silent Hill 2 means to not only yourself, but, its statements on humanity and the darkness we seem to not resist, each characters reason for existence, why you see what you see, why certain sounds are used, certain camera angles are used, music, clothing, why the "creatures" are what they are and whether they're really there...You would literally be there for weeks writing away and STILL would not touch the bottom of it....could i do that for Final Fantasy VII? no. Not that that is a bad thing, Fantasy VII is just a great straight forward plot and therefore wouldn't require so much analysis. But, it's a number one at what it does and one of my ultimate games. I'm stating a point, Silent Hill 2 is deep and articulate, like an artistic novel, like an artistic movie and like the painting you just can't stop looking at.

Watch the making of Silent Hill 2 for more insight. It also gets hailed a complete work of art in the same documentary.

To take Silent Hill 2's importance for granted is not a good look...

Anyway, i appreciate your views and enjoyed this conversation, Ben and the others.

@Ultima, lmao! Great movie.



Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 8/16/2009 5:01:32 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 9:22:42 PM

I just don't think you're getting it. I GET all that. It's not HARD to get all that. In fact, it's painfully evident. Do you understand what I normally read...? I'm sorry, but as I said before, I KNOW SH2 had a great story...for VIDEO GAMES. You can't call it masterful by any stretch of the imagination. And as there was basically no real dialogue writing, that's a major lacking, no matter how you slice it. But you're certainly welcome to like it, and think it's more than it is...we all have to be entertained, and we all have to enjoy that entertainment. I'm glad SH2 meant so much to you.

Ultima: Annie Hall is my mother's favorite movie. I like it, too, but not to the same extent. I do remember that scene, though. :)

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 8/16/2009 9:23:48 PM

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tes37
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 8:30:59 AM
Reply

I got teary eyed in Heavenly Sword and anyone who has played it knows which scenes and characters got me choked up. Didn't want to be specific so as to avoid any spoilers. Valkyria Chronicles got to me also.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:26:21 AM

Yeah, that's true. Heavenly Sword was great...severely underrated, IMO.

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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:14:53 PM

She still have the voice of a bloke though

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Scarecrow
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:35:01 PM

Such a beautiful game!

Any person who actually plays this game all the way through INSTANTLY becomes a huge fan of this game.

There's no way you can't enjoy the storyline in that game. The characters are so out there, and every one of them with their own little charm.

For me it's all 'bout that cutie, Kai! She's so awesome <3

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coldbore
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 8:44:40 AM
Reply

emotions is probobly what made the metal gear series so popular. So yes the gaming industry could use a little more emotions in it's games

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A2K78
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 9:39:49 AM
Reply

Do games need to be more emotional? In a word NO, but what games need to be is MORE FUN because these days FUN seem to be taking a backseat to the ridiculous things developers have been force-feeding.

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Phoelix
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:10:29 AM
Reply

WHAT? Aeris dies?!

Just kidding. I know she does.

I think it's kind of hard to cry during an FPS where the entire story revolves around kicking tail. The only emotion I get during FPS stories is rage (end of CoD4, end of KZ2, etc.). I think they're doing an okay job with that portion.

RPG's give me a much better variety, but those games are more story-based and less shooting-based.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:15:41 PM

Rage at multiplayer goons "Shakes fist in anger"

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pavlovic
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:48:45 AM
Reply

Actually when I finished KZ2 I really had this awful feeling about Rico... son of...

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Phoelix
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 10:53:03 AM

That's what I was talking about. So, at the end, there is almost no closure AND we get pissed off at Rico.

Hence rage.

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Alienange
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 11:34:18 AM
Reply

Well I don't know about all this crying because of Aeris, but certainly emotions play a huge part in making the gamer relate to the characters on screen. I was more like "I'M COMING FOR YOU SEPHIROTH!" than "Booo Hooo Hooo." Either way it's emotion and that's what drives many gamers to keep playing. To take out emotion and replace it with run-and-gun would be a huge mistake. Sadly many devs don't have good writers.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:16:34 PM

You sir have a hollow tin chest ;)

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Alienange
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:55:27 PM

I'm more of a jaw-dropper than a cryer.

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Solid Fantasy
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 11:34:52 AM
Reply

I fully support any attempt towards emotions and story lines in the gaming industry. I know a lot of people who know very little of the gaming world and just assume that every game is just a mindless blood bath. These people clearly don't even know what RPG stands for or have heard of the MGS series for that matter.

The stronger the story, emotions, acting, and etc influence there is the more respect we can get from a broader general of people.

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LightShow
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:25:04 PM
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just like anything in any media, theres a time and a place. i think if the games story based, emotion has a place. if its gameplay driven, i.e. COD or something similar, i'm pretty sure i'd want the focus elsewhere.

plus, i dont want my game turning into a old-lady-romance-novel with a lead character named Juan. there will come a line with the emotion, and i guarantee somebody will cross it.

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bebestorm
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 12:33:49 PM
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ITA There's really nothing outside of jrpgs. I think Heavy Rain will fill the void,maybe others will follow. I wish the writer of of Kaim's dreams would write a story for new game.

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BigBoss4ever
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 1:27:41 AM

"I wish the writer of of Kaim's dreams would write a story for new game." -- that will be an instant classic right there, and the deepest

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 1:18:40 PM
Reply

I mentioned to some game illiterates how the soldiers behind Six Days in Fallujah wanted to tell their story, and one of them it like "Tell their story through a video game?" I was disappointed, people still think there are no storylines or memorable characters in games.

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BeezleDrop
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:13:35 PM
Reply

Heavy Rain is suppost to evoke all different kinds of emotions, thats why I want the game!

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Qwarktast1c
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:27:31 PM
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wow.... no mention of FFX??

i thought that was even more emotional than FFVII

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Scarecrow
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 2:56:56 PM

It was imo
Personally I find FFVII to be a bit overrated

Heck, FFVIII was more emotional in my opinion

Well, if anything they all have that in common, they all use emotion and deep story lines.

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Qwarktast1c
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 4:29:09 PM

i agree

one thing that actually made FFX more emotional was of course the voices. it really made the characters seem more believable.

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BigBoss4ever
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 1:30:03 AM

if u saw my previous posts a while ago, you know i am with you that FF7 is probably the most over-hyped game of all time by today's Square business practices. It was fine back then when it was released on its own, with that said, i am not saying this is not a great game, just over-hyped.

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Kai200X
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 2:59:02 AM

I got emotional when I play FFX as well, but I really don't think FFVII is in any way shape or form overrated. I guess because I am a sucker for love stories and you definitely get love stories in FF VII, VIII, and X. Anybody enjoyed X-2? I think it was alright.

Last edited by Kai200X on 8/16/2009 3:00:31 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, August 15, 2009 @ 7:05:54 PM
Reply

Don't bother responding to Drithe. He's gone again.

We don't accept idiots.

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JMO_INDY
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 2:55:03 AM

You accepted me back. Thanks btw, o and my two cents on this whole emotion thing, I still love My MGS2: Sons Of Liberty, gotta love that scene with Raiden and Snake after the whole sword battle, but, if your looking for emotion, look no further then MGS, and yes, MGS 3 is amazing to, the whole monkeys from Ape Quest level, that was epic. but im getting off-topic and im rambling, so ill stop now.

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ShadowRunner
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 3:04:44 AM
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Max Payne was my first emotional gaming experience, it rocked

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maxpontiac
Sunday, August 16, 2009 @ 8:02:01 PM
Reply

This article is one of the reasons why I continue to come here daily. I have only cared about a few of the video game characters I "used", with the most recent being my character from Fallout 3.

I am a huge supporter of the bringing more drama into video games, and agree that games have begun a shift to more and more brutal violence.

I my book, inFamous was a perfect setting for an emotional rollercoaster.
- The city being forced into chaos.
- The moral choices.
- The love interest.
- The relationship with his friend.

Plenty of subject matter to explore in a deeper context.

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Snaaaake
Monday, August 17, 2009 @ 5:37:58 AM
Reply

MGS3 was damn emotional.....
The Boss' sacrifice was too damn sad though I didn't cry but I do however felt it.
The one that really made it emotional was probably when Big Boss was listening to EVA's recording like:
"Yet no one will know what she had done"
or
"People will brand her as traitor and future generations will....."

Ok, I admit I forgot what EVA said but I do remember it was sad hearing those words so if you know what was wrong with my quoting of EVA then correct me.

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BigBoss4ever
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 @ 1:59:05 AM

that ending was probably the single most emotional or saddest moment in the entire gaming history to date, not to exaggerate

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