Final Fantasy XIII Hate Unfounded?

THE-GAMER
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 9:35:35 PM
Reply

Haters are the most stupidest people i met , especially wen they hate a game that is awesome but never played it lol

6 up, 18 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:09:21 AM

Contradictory statement my friend.

An awesome game, that people hate, but hasn't been released yet.

Your proving that they shouldn't hate it yet, but you also prove at the same time, that you cannot say it is awesome.

Even if you HAVE played it, doesn't make the game 'awesome'.

14 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:48:49 AM

lol @ "most stupidest," oh the irony.

25 up, 2 down

Kiwi of DOOM
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:32:43 AM

If i want exploration i'll play an MMORPG. If i want a good story i'll play a console RPG. SE promises a good story for FFXIII, i'll be there to buy it.

2 up, 1 down

Kain81
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:43:27 AM

I dont hate FINAL FANTASY, but the idea behind FINAL FANTASY 13...man they have cut half the Game content, so it would fit in a Freaking DVD.
IF YOU AS A GAMER, WANT A CUTED VERSION OF A GAME? AND THIS ONLY TO MAKE SOME BUCKS MORE...
go to Hell WADA go to HELL

Last edited by Kain81 on 1/23/2010 4:44:31 AM

9 up, 2 down

THE-GAMER
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 6:07:51 PM

@ Akuma : yeah your right , i never thought of it like that

1 up, 0 down

camaro300zx
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 10:15:40 AM

All those who are whining and crying about how Square "Edited" the game need to be quite. For all you know Final Fantasy II thru XII, could've been longer or more side quests, more of "this" or "that". You don't know 'cause it was never mentioned. Yes Square needs to learn to keep certain subjects from the public, like the editing process. But really what if FFVII included alot more than it did I bet reviews and memories would be a whole lot diffrent than they are. But we'll never know.

Stupid whiny babies.

"What If's" Don't Exist!!!

This is still a day one purchase for me. I'm getting the Collectors Edition along with the Limited Edition Guide. So There.

1 up, 7 down

Banky A
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:07:19 AM

And the fact that is costs money. Of course.

:D

3 up, 1 down

Kiwi of DOOM
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:34:16 AM

Well said.

0 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 3:42:54 AM

Also the fact it went to M$.Thats my only negative on the game. Which is BIG for me.

4 up, 0 down

Banky A
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:15:21 AM

S..E..X..ual intercourse now costs money? :(
*cries*

4 up, 3 down

fluffer nutter
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:08:08 AM

Time is money.

1 up, 0 down

michiganfan1983
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 9:53:36 PM
Reply

I have had my conserns but I never hated on the game and always said I would get it, maybe not day one but I will get it.

I agree with Ben that XII didn't have the best of storys but I loved the battle system, ability to set up predetermined comands and still be able to control everyone in the heat of battle if needed was awesome. The LP map was a little funky but not bad, just different.

1 up, 0 down

therabbitkinge
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 9:54:03 PM
Reply

Well Ben thanks for saying something about this because I've been bugged by the bad hype and have said a lot in this still unreleased games defense! I look at this game as a slight change in the FF series and a welcome one at that so everyone please just holster your negative tounges until we know more about something that's actually bad about the game and until then... REJOICE DAMNIT ITS F**KIN FINAL FANTASY lol ^_^

1 up, 3 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:12:13 AM

Im one of those people, who don't believe its a welcome change in the series.

Im a HUGE fan of the earlier FFs and desperatly wish the series to return to its roots....to my dissapointment.

I will hire the game, if its awesome, then im sure ill buy it at some point, but until then, i have my reservations and dissapointments.

3 up, 0 down

OtisFeelgood
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 9:57:17 PM
Reply

I hate that Square-Enix took extra content out so the ps3 version can be on par with the 360's. ;\

17 up, 1 down

sunspider13
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:00:32 AM

That's my main thing about it, that and Wada's an idiot.

Last edited by sunspider13 on 1/23/2010 12:00:56 AM

7 up, 1 down

Kiwi of DOOM
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 1:55:19 AM

I admit, i dislike that too however you can hate it all you want, but if you like final fantasy then boycotting it like many people intend to do will lead to only one thing- less final fantasy.

2 up, 2 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 3:48:32 AM

SE taking stuff out does'nt bother me much.Them making it for M$ DOES.
For me FFX was awesome i had great moments in that game and the story was so good Still remember most parts and all the cutscenes were excellent i actually like cutscenes gives you a chance to just sit back and watch. Like an awesome cartoon.

5 up, 2 down

Snaaaake
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:00:41 PM
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I'm getting this game, so what if some content was cut, the game is still gonna be awesome.

I'm having no problem with all the bad hype except the "No town" rumour which is bothering me.

5 up, 1 down

WolfCrimson
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:36:21 AM

I'm in the same boat as Snaaake here, The game being linear like FFX is not a problem for me, there being no towns at all is a major disappointment, AND the fact that i was cut out so that FFXIII can go multiplat. I'm not gonna get on day 1, but I'll wait for PSXe's review. Please PSXe, in your review address the negative rumours currently out there, my purcase of FFXIII depends on it.

Last edited by WolfCrimson on 1/23/2010 4:58:26 AM

6 up, 0 down

iGraves1
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:01:57 PM
Reply

I don't have a lot of interest in this game, it just didn't grab my attention like past FF games. But that doesn't mean i'm gonna bash it, it seems most people who do haven't even played it and are just fallowing the dumb crowd.

Even if the game does have issues, i'm sure the overall experiance will be great. Really looking foward to Final Fantasy Versus 13, the art style of the games trailer got me interested.

Last edited by iGraves1 on 1/22/2010 10:06:27 PM

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:03:18 PM
Reply

Good to hear your counterpoints Ben, but I think what really has some gamers in a tizzy for this iteration is the stuff that was cut out, no matter what anyone says we area always going to assume it was because of the 360 version. Add that to the reports of there being little in the way of towns to explore, and the fact that you SHOP AT A MENU and I understand the anger.

I too have loved all the FF's but going back to what works best (a battle screen with actual commands) is not a step back, it's a step over that messy pre-arranged tactics battle format of XII.

I personally can't wait for XIII, but I understand the angst. Usually tend to play my FF's in a rather linear fashion anyway, though I would have expected a return to the world map and at LEAST the ability to go back to old maps, I can probably tolerate whatever is in store. I really hated those snakey sinewy dungeons in XII anyway. They went on forever and ever. And well, in that case the backtracking was both necessary and unfortunate.

12 up, 1 down

www
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:31:38 AM

Same thing World, I must admit I always loved to advance, I hated backtracking. Though the main gripe over here is, everything shoulda been intact, nothing cut out because of 360, that's just the point.

0 up, 0 down

mbg77
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:33:53 AM

I have to disagree with you here World.

If (and I say if because i haven't played the game) you really are in control of just one of the party members (the others are controlled by the PS3 and you can only change how they behave: attack, defend, heal) how is it any better than FFXII or the earlier iterations.

And if it's true that any given moment you have just the party members that you see on the battle screen (no switching members during battle) where is the strategy or tactics part - you have to fight with what you were given at this point in the game.

I like to wander around the FF world and level up a lot before I go into serious battle. In FFXII I was usually 20 or something levels above what the FF guide suggested for that point in game. If in FFXIII I cannot go back to previous maps and I'm stuck only to go forward than how will I be able to level up like this - unless the enemies respawn.

That's what grinds me gears about FFXIII.

Take care.

PS: I will most likely buy the game. But it for sure won't be a first day buy. I'll wait for Ben's review.

Last edited by mbg77 on 1/23/2010 5:37:33 AM

2 up, 0 down

Mystearica
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:19:43 PM
Reply

Well - being me... I'm NOT a fan girl - so I actually listen to BOTH sides. There are people who undeniably say it's the best thing and bash anyone who says anything bad about this game and there is the opposite side too.

From what I have been reading - this game definitely seems to have flaws story-wise and game-play-wise. I read the game play issues and while a few points are indeed disappointing (and you really can't deny it unless you're a fanboy), it also has got some redeeming points too. I did NOT read the story commentary 'cause I want to keep that as a surprise. But from my understanding the characters of focus is not who we though they were.

Either way, I AM getting this game without a doubt - I may even get the limited edition (depending what it comes with... yes I know there is a leaked post on here but I want confirmation). Personally, I do have a feel that I will be somewhat disappointed with this game but being a long-time FF fan, I commit myself to playing each and every game I can get my hands on. From here on I just hope for the best.

EDITING:
From what I hear:
- Almost no towns (kinda disappointing... but I'll survive)
- Almost no NPC interaction
- You shop from the menu/save (that really sucks... sorry but I can't help it)
- Very linear (aren't they all... kinda?)
- Battle is primary button mashing (I don't mind this I guess)
- You only control one member of the team and if he/she dies it's game over (this REALLY sucks... I guess this is my biggest issue with the game so far and AI aren't exactly smart... by this I feel like I'll be just be a button masher during regular fights and a healer during boss fights)
- If the mobs decide to gang up on the person you are controlling high chance it's game over
- HP completely healed after battle (not to fond of this)
- Spend most of the time running through dungeons and battling (most RPGs are like this anyway)
- No actual mini-games that FF are notorious for having (just some hunts... again with the hunts/battling.... I like hunts but I do WISH they added a mini-game of some sorts).

The truth is... the good old square soft FF is gone. I don't mind any of the points listed... except for the only one person in the battle... and the shops maybe. Apparently people are saying the story is not as good as they thought it would be and they are somewhat disappointed with it (possibly due to super high expectations) - but I'll be the judge of that.

Last edited by Mystearica on 1/22/2010 10:29:25 PM

9 up, 0 down

DIsmael85
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:36:28 PM

Heyo, Im gonna take a shot at some of your points if thats ok, some I do agree with, some I dont:

From what I have played in the 34 hours Im in:

- Healing after Battles: Thankfully they do this, because more times than none you will find yourself in battle after battle, and some of them are so hard you will be glad they do this.

- Battling is semi-button masher: You still have to use a deal of strategy in battle, and your AI partners are not as dumb as you would assume. They know when to heal, and they know what to do just as long as you set them up to do so. I have found myself surviving the toughest of fights as long as I knew what Optima changes to use. Trust me, you'll get the rhythm real easy.

I do agree that NPC interations are not there, there are a few places that you do, but it's nothing that really impacts the game. So I understand the traditional town stuff is gone. As for the item/save point thing, it can go both ways, it helps that you can upgrade weapons etc etc, at save points as it helps you prepare for those challenging boss fights.

The game is really tough, and it'll be a challenge for all of us RPG'ers, but I don't think it's the worst game out there. You'll have fun.

4 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 3:55:17 AM

@DIsmael, but do you think it's a great game?

How about the fact you can only control the main character tell us your opinion on that.

1 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:23:12 PM
Reply

Despite all the naysayers out there, FF has managed to sell millions upon millions of games with most every release.

Maybe people complain because, at one time, the RPG genre in terms of breadth has expanded over the last 6 years on the console side of things. FF, at one time, was the hallmark of console RPG greatness.

Now, after the post Bioware/Bethseda/western style RPG etc., we see a PC to console convergence that has brought on a cultural-gaming clash in ideals. These days it's JRPG's and RPG's.

I'm glad FF has stuck to it's heritage and continues to be what has made it so popular. I can't go anywhere else and get the sort of artistic greatness, and superb production values in any other RPG.
I've been playing through FFVII on my PSP while I wait to get a new PS3, because my launch model gave up the ghost, and the nostalgic trip back has made me even more excited for FFXIII.

0 up, 4 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:04:03 AM

I disagree that FF has "stuck to its heritage." It is far from it in fact.

8 up, 1 down

Hitch
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:26:23 PM
Reply

I'm pretty sure all the hate is coming from the loyal Sony followers who feel betrayed by the fact that Xbox 360 fans will also get to enjoy this excellent game.

Kind of an unofficial strike against the game it seems. So everyone is trying to piss on the game and find reasons to not buy it or like it.

Last edited by Hitch on 1/22/2010 10:26:37 PM

3 up, 13 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:04:45 AM

you clearly haven't been around here lately then.

8 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:20:08 AM

No, you got us all wrong. We love it when the best franchises are limited by inferior hardware when the PS3 is capable of so much more.

15 up, 1 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:21:11 AM

Hitch, just doesn't seem to be a very objective person.

Sounds alot to me like a 360 fangirl

9 up, 3 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:49:01 AM

I don't know about you guys, but I bought a PS3 so I could play mediocre Xbox games. Not all the PS3's great exclusives. That's why i was ecstatic when FFXIII was announced for the 3sh!ty, eeer..I mean 360.

DVD9 FTW!

;)

16 up, 2 down

DIsmael85
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:29:50 PM
Reply

Thank you Ben for posting this. Damnit it needed to be said. I don't understand the rising hate for this game either. I have been playing it. Literally. The CG sequences are not long what so ever, and there is a lot of gameplay and tons of challenging battles. I would go as far as saying it's the toughest Final Fantasy I have played in a while. No where near pushover. My opinion of the hate is because it's no longer an exclusive title.

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:05:37 AM

lol, you literally have been playing it?

1 up, 1 down

Mystearica
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:32:00 PM
Reply

^PS. I should have proofread my writing. It sucks - full of grammar mistakes. Sorry. Anyway, I know quite a few of you will bash me because of my post. But I'm just looking at both sides here and like I said - I will buy it, play it and be the final judge of it myself.

Last edited by Mystearica on 1/22/2010 10:33:19 PM

4 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:02:44 AM

On the subject of grammer.I think us Americans are geting so bad with grammer,well i mean the younger generation. Texting is at fault, I belief.

1 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Thursday, January 28, 2010 @ 9:35:18 PM

I'm trying to decide if Roach's many errors were intentional or ironic. I'm leaning toward the former.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 1/28/2010 9:36:58 PM

0 up, 0 down

SnipeySnake
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:33:09 PM
Reply

Don't care if content was cut out, im still getting this. The main reason i play games is for story.

2 up, 1 down

nogoat23
Monday, January 25, 2010 @ 3:53:10 PM

Whenever I watch the deleted scenes from a movie, I always think, "That was dumb. I'm glad they cut it out." Is that the situation with FF13? Or did they legitimately cut out good stuff?

0 up, 0 down

CH1N00K
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:33:34 PM
Reply

What ever happened to Versus XIII, I haven't heard anything about it in awhile. Did it just drop of the face of the earth?

And any more news on XIV online? Since I missed XI, I've been kind of more interested in more news on XIV over the other two.

I'll probably still invest in XIII at some point because when it comes down to it, it's still a Final Fantasy, but I was kind of disappointed in XII so if I'm disappointed in this one, I'll be thinking hard about whether to buy the next one or not.

0 up, 0 down

DIsmael85
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:39:23 PM

Actually from what I have played, I can see a connection with Versus XIII, but I will not say for spoiler reasons. I'm sure they know people have picked up on it, and I'm sure it's still in development.

0 up, 1 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:07:15 AM

Versus, is going to be EPIC....

Thats all i can say =D

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:07:59 AM

Me too Chinook, if this one disappoints, XV will be a late cheap buy and I will cry over FF's grave.

1 up, 1 down

Mystearica
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:43:13 PM
Reply

^So there is a connection... that's good to hear 'cause when they mentioned all three FF would be linked I had a hard time imagining it when I read the story synopses.

2 up, 0 down

geovanwitdakick
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:44:11 PM
Reply

I think people are not mad at FF, just Square Enix. & since people can't do anything about Square Enix...well, they release their anger on the game. By not buying it.

2 up, 0 down

Oxvial
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:48:58 PM
Reply

not going to buy this game until last quarter of year.

GOW 3 pandora box gonna left me with little resources and there's a game that need more help.. Yakuza 3 .

Last edited by Oxvial on 1/22/2010 10:50:32 PM

5 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:49:59 PM

Exactly, too many great games coming out.
I'll definitely rent this when I can though

3 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:49:23 PM
Reply

Ben, here I completely disagree (which is fine)

Many of the things I don't like from what I've HEARD, READ, and SEEN:
-No towns
-Can't change main characters 'till the end of the game
-They decided to cut out a "WHOLE GAME'S WORTH OF CONTENT"
-Graphics were dumbed down so that it could be ported to the 360 (unconfirmed, but there are comparison screens)
-Horrible character designs (this is a personal issue for me here, has never been a problem in ANY FF until this one)

By the way, I loved FFXII's story. Vaan sucked, but you can't tell me Balthier and the others weren't great heroes.

Last edited by Scarecrow on 1/22/2010 10:51:40 PM

7 up, 0 down

Highlander
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:23:32 AM

For me the main problems are that the elements I like in a Role Playing game are the exploration, the NPCs, the side quests, towns, shops, skill systems, and battle systems that require more than one button to operate. I like to be able to backtrack through parts of the game.

I perfectly understand Ben's points, and to some extent I agree with the sentiment behind what he says, but if you take an RPG and strip out the towns, shops side quests, exploration/back tracking, most NPC interaction and so forth, you do end up with a very, very linear game. Sure all story based games are going to be linear at a Macro level, FFXIII appears to be linear at the micro level, linear in the same way that Uncharted 2 is linear.

Too linear.

9 up, 0 down

Oyashiro
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 1:01:23 AM

My feelings as well. Everything that I have grown to love about RPGs are the things they took out of FFXIII.

Towns, NPCs, Sidequests, An actual world, grinding, exploration.

And this is particularly sad for me as Final Fantasy is the series that shaped my love of all that.

6 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:32:20 AM

I also love FFXII am still actually at the point where you must open the Huge door with your summoned creature, I forgot the name. The area with the mist I kind of got stuck there, then i stoped playing. I got into other games and never got back into it. Then when i swapt my hard drive I forgot to save my PS2 stuff, so i lost my saved file. Haven't played it since. Yesterday I bought part 7 and 8 from the PSN store thought I'd give those a try.

0 up, 0 down

rogergent
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 10:51:32 PM
Reply

This game in no longer an RPG its an action game 20hrs in and its still kill tubes very dissapointing i imported the jap version.i think SE has been talking to capcom and taken hints from RE5's book

7 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:12:30 PM
Reply

My problem isn't with FFXIII. I can get over long cut scenes and even a linear design. Im upset with Square and their quest to "westernize" their games. It's resulted in the dumbing down of thier best brand to dip in to the 3sh!ty market.

Half the content being cut, using that crappy song by that Lewis woman and not giving us the option jap audio simply because the 360 can't handle it is what's driving my disatisfaction.

20 up, 1 down

Hitch
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:24:53 PM

Please don't start flaming. Let's try to keep this discussion intelligent. Why are you resorting to the same kind of dumbing down that you vehemently have a distaste for?

1 up, 18 down

Jawknee
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:33:24 PM

WTH are you talking about? Who's flaming who tool?

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/22/2010 11:34:57 PM

15 up, 1 down

Hitch
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:38:14 PM

Yeah calling me a "tool" isn't flaming @sshole? I'm talking about the derogatory comment you made about the 360. I do not feel like having to read a bunch of bash posts from the 360 fans.

3 up, 19 down

Charger7302
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:40:16 PM

I loved the international trailer with lewis's song, I think it captures the emotion of the characters very well. It also hyped me for the game and I'm not really an rpg fan. That "westernizing" wada was talking about is definitely present in the international trailer when you compare it to the TGS trailer.

0 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:44:42 PM

Hey guy, you didn't have to respond to my comment if you didn't like it. So again, who's flaming who moron?

@charger, I'm sorry, but I fail to see the connection. That song stinks.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/22/2010 11:45:46 PM

11 up, 4 down

Hitch
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:50:03 PM

whatever imbecile

0 up, 24 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:01:54 AM

Hitch, you just insulted someone, who you previously asked not to flame others.

Hypacritical much?

Please stay off the comments unless you have anything intelligent to add.

16 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:06:50 AM

Ha!

12 up, 2 down

Kowhoho
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:08:43 AM

Right on Akuma, spread the love.
Hitch: Should you be insulting someone you tell not to flame other people? Negatory, catwoman.

...the air feels like jello.

6 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:15:03 AM

If you don't like people upset at the negative effects the 360 has had on their favorite hobby or a favorite series than you'll probably have to go live on an island or something.

14 up, 1 down

Oxvial
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:19:42 AM

thanks Jawk's this was a good lulz!

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:23:52 AM

Happy to entertain even if unintentional.

9 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:48:50 AM

Damnit, NO. Hitch, you started it so SHUT it.

Others, you should know better than to flame back at a potential troll.

15 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:52:59 AM

Sorry Ben. :)

6 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:05:38 AM

I was just havin' some fun :)

2 up, 1 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:53:03 AM

lmao,hahahah.Funny stuff. Hitch is a bit too wound up,go smoke something. Take a chill pill.

0 up, 0 down

eLLeJuss
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:18:14 PM
Reply

Probably cause of culture diffs. Western gamers usually like shooters. And japanese/asians are more into story driven games and animes and stuff.

0 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:15:57 AM

No, there is a massive FF following here in the west, and a very healthy jrpg following as well.

6 up, 0 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:27:58 AM

HAHA look at a pic of my anime collection.... =D

0 up, 0 down

Vitron
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:30:38 PM
Reply

The game does not need to be hated, it's those who made it.

1 up, 0 down

AStiffyIffy
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:31:10 PM
Reply

"Yes, I know people don't want a "path" these days but the linear aspect doesn't really impact the gameplay."

Linearity doesn't impact gameplay? It's obviously part of the gameplay. I'm sure if any game was linear it would get bashed, but no. Not the precious Final Fantasy XIII.

0 up, 5 down

Kowhoho
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:11:55 AM

Quit using the word linear like it's an insult. Heavy Rain is pretty damned linear and I'd bet money that it'll average 90 or higher on metacritic.

9 up, 2 down

AStiffyIffy
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:16:30 AM

That's a whole different genre though. You think linearity in Final Fantasy XIII is the same as linearity in Heavy Rain? That makes no sense whatsoever. As far as I know, it's almost like RPG's should have exploration. If you think it's the same thing then you must be dumb or a fanboy.

3 up, 11 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:27:27 AM

I think Squeenix has blurred FF's genre.

Its moving more and more towards an Action/Adventure RPG.

3 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:52:12 AM

Sypho: Calling people names for not thinking exploration adds much of ANYTHING to a game is pretty narrow-minded. So knock it off.

10 up, 1 down

AStiffyIffy
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 1:41:14 AM

Honestly, it seems like every Final Fantasy XIII article on this site is super-fanboyish stuff. Like everything that FFXIII is doing is right and whatever it removed should have been removed. This was taken from Wikipedia (I know people have problems with Wiki, but if anyone's a fan of RPG's they'll most likely agree with what is said):

Exploring the world is an important aspect of all RPGs.[1] Players will walk through, talking to non-player characters, picking up objects, and avoiding traps.[1] Some games such as NetHack or Diablo randomize the structure of individual levels, increasing the game's variety and replayability.[1] Role-playing games where players complete quests by exploring randomly-generated dungeons are sometimes called roguelikes, named after the 1980 computer game Rogue.[6]

The game's story is often mapped onto exploration, where each chapter of the story is mapped onto a different location. Unlike other linear games, RPGs usually allow players to return to previously visited locations. Usually, there is nothing left to do there, although some locations change throughout the story and offer the player new things to do in response. Players must acquire enough power to overcome a major challenge in order to progress to the next area, and this structure can be compared to the boss characters at the end of levels in action games.[1]

"Whereas the player must complete a linear sequence of specific quests to complete the game, RPGs often allow the player to seek out optional side-quests. These quests are typically found by talking to a non-player character, and there is no penalty for abandoning or ignoring these quests other than a missed opportunity. There is usually a reward for completing a side-quest, although quests in some games such as Arcanum or Geneforge can limit or enable certain choices later in the game. Quests may involve defeating one or many enemies, rescuing a non-player character, item fetch quests, or locational puzzles such as mysteriously locked doors."

So, Ben, with that out there, how is it that removing exploration from a game series which has had exploration from the beginning a GOOD thing?

5 up, 11 down

AStiffyIffy
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 1:52:55 AM

Crap, I misquoted. Quotes should begin at: Exploring the world is an important aspect of all RPGs.

The end quotes are fine though.

2 up, 8 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:58:25 AM

@ Sypho, still no need to insult people because of their opinion. Were all just to passionate about our games thats all.

1 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:30:27 AM

I was going to apologize but I realized that my opinion probably isn't the problem here.

1 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:38:06 AM

Sypho, don't freakin' quote Wikipedia to me. I've likely been playing games for longer than you've been alive, and I've probably played more RPGs than you've even THOUGHT of. I KNOW what an RPG is. I could've written a far better example of a video game RPG than what is posted at Wiki.

The vast majority of RPGs up until only a few years ago were NEVER based around exploration. We simply didn't have the technology. And now that it's here, I can easily compare it to before and it does NOT add much depth to ANYTHING. It didn't add any depth at all to FFXII as far as I could tell, and there's a reason for that. To believe that larger environments automatically gives a video game more "depth" is WRONG. I'm not saying it can't; I'm saying it usually doesn't so to believe otherwise is just current propaganda.

11 up, 3 down

Akuma07
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 12:00:20 AM

Ben, your last reply to this comment is a bit well, unprofessional.

Bringing the high and mighty 'i've been doing this since before you were born' thing into it, is well completely unnecessary and possibly untrue.

You are ment to be a gaming journalist, you need not prove yourself to anyone, the fact that your job title is what i just said, kinda proves that you should know what your talking about.

You SHOULDN'T belittle anyone else, ESPECIALLY a member of this website.

2 up, 3 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 12:31:22 AM

I reserve the right to "belittle" anyone who calls all our FFXIII articles fanboy tripe. He's lucky he's not instantly banned for violating the flaming policy.

I also take it personally, as this is my job and I work hard at it.

Finally, experience matters in every industry. Someone who just started playing games this generation isn't an authority on anything, as far as I'm concerned, which is why it's always relevant in any argument.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/24/2010 12:33:15 AM

4 up, 1 down

Akuma07
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 10:34:21 PM

I understand and agree with all that.

I just honestly don't think Ben Dutka need explain himself to us.

We look to you for the answers after all.

0 up, 0 down

Akuma07
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:43:29 PM
Reply

I can honestly say im a little peeved about this article Ben. Its pretty much a slap in the face to myself, and fellow forum members who discussed our dissapointment for FFXIII in a recent thread.

How can you say the hate is unfounded?
The hate is the personal opinion of that individual, based upon that individuals likes or dislikes.
Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to flame them because they don't like the look of how FFXIII is turning out?

My personal opinion and in my experience the hate is moreso centered upon squeenix for the overall step backward they have taken in developing this game, in an attempt to 'westernise' it. Plus all the content that has been removed to accomadate the 360 version.

It seems as though this article is meant to say "if you don't like FFXIII, then there's something wrong with you"

Last edited by Akuma07 on 1/22/2010 11:55:47 PM

11 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:17:42 AM

He merely posed the question "Final Fantasy XIII Hate Unfounded?" Then gave his opinions, I will respect them as such and disagree where I choose, as evinced by my own post.

I think the article is instead meant to say "if you don't like FFXIII, then you should probably play it before you form an opinion."

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/23/2010 12:19:11 AM

6 up, 1 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:22:18 AM

But what is wrong with not liking how something is looking?

I never said surely that it will be crap, it will most likely be a good game.

I have my personal opinion, that is all, and i cannot wait to play the game myself, to find out the truth.

2 up, 0 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:26:26 AM

I can understand that the article is just an opinion of a gamer, with his counterpoints.

I dont think their should be flaming, on EITHER side! thats my opinion.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:42:40 AM

Well that's the point isn't it, to elicit our comments and opinions?

1 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:50:17 AM

What are you talking about? I'm specifically referring to those who have denounced the game only for the reasons I listed. If you don't like it, that's your deal.

I don't care if people like it or not; I care about slamming on a game for supposedly not "progressing" when "progression" is often very subjective.

4 up, 3 down

gumbi
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:50:15 PM
Reply

I haven't played it yet... so I can't justifiably say for or against. This game could still blow me away, I'm just disappointed that it likely won't be what it could have been, and I've had to wait unnecessarily long for it. As for this whole content removal fiasco, well there's only one way Playstation fans are going to look at it, and it ain't positive.

Last edited by gumbi on 1/22/2010 11:51:59 PM

2 up, 0 down

Akuma07
Friday, January 22, 2010 @ 11:57:28 PM

Thats exactly what i think too, the game COULD still be awesome, but i personally dont think so.

Due to the above reasons.

1 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:03:11 AM

Dude, you just poked me in the eye. What the HELL.

2 up, 0 down

gumbi
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 8:28:43 PM

haha. take that roach! don't worry, it's just an eye. and the gods saw fit to grace you with a spare ;)

2 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:10:17 AM
Reply

All I know is that watching the FFXIII trailers brought me back to a truly magical time when FFX was new to me. Nearly brought a tear to my eye.

6 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:21:07 AM
Reply

Whichever side you are on, I think we can all agree that the fate of Final Fantasy in the future rests on a knife's edge.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/23/2010 12:21:22 AM

6 up, 0 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:22:33 AM

I do agree with you on that.

2 up, 0 down

Akuma07
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:30:39 AM
Reply

the current FFXIII deserves to be a spin-off game HAHAHAHA =D

0 up, 0 down

napoleon85
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:33:19 AM
Reply

Personally, in terms of quality, SE has never let me down. In fact FF is the only reason I bought a PS3. Yes, there might be many great different titles but it just so happens that I don't have enough time to play them all (with a few exceptions). Despite all the negative critics I'm really looking forward to play this game.
Btw, I just finished FFVIII and although the junction system is a little odd, I thought the story was simply great (even better than vii). I played it back in 1999 but my english was very poor and hence I couldn't understand the story well lol... sorry, I just wanted to share that :P

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:44:37 AM

The expectation of FF and other jrpg greatness was a main reason I picked PS3 too, well that and quality products.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:52:33 AM
Reply

Ben, I understand and agree with the sentiment and even some of the thought behind your counterpoints. However here is my take on the whole Final Fantasy XIII thing.

If I look at games like FFVII, FFVIII, Star Ocean 2 , Mana Khemia, the three Xenosaga games, Breath of Fire III, Cross Edge, Enchanted Arms, and other JRPG games I find many things in common (with most or all of these games):

Linear story
Non-linear exploration
Backtracking
Towns
Shops
Side quests
Mini-games
Skill systems
Upgradeable equipment
Item synthesis (some games)
Turn based combat often with chained attacks
Multiple characters in battle

The linearity in Final Fantasy is not the kind of linearity that all these games share in their story. The linearity in FFXIIi is built into the game in the level design. You are corralled from one battle to the next. Funneled through long straight maps from one battle to the next. I've seen the maps of about the first half of the game, it is almost entirely absolutely straight linear.

Turn based combat is about the strategy during battle and adjusting for the foes in the battle. You must decide attacks, spells, special attacks, attack order, boosting, attack chaining during combat. The Final Fantasy XIII system has you set up your battle 'strategy' in advance by assigning your characters roles during combat. After that when you enter battle, apart from your single controllable character, everything is automated.

The removal of content is a pretty bad sign when the game is nearly devoid of towns and other incidental elements that a more target focused player might describe as fluff.

I have no idea if the visuals were downgraded, that hasn't been an issue for me. But the things that make a JRPG a JRPG are not limited to that certain Japanese flair that JRPG designers bring in their art. The things that make a JRPG game what it is are all the extras. All those towns, incidental exploration, side quests, pointless mini-games, odd NPCs to talk to, skill systems, upgradable items, item synthesis, all the customization you can handle and more. That is what is wrong with FFXIII for me, the game has been stripped back to it's most basic elements.

It's like if someone took a Mercedes SL-600 with every toy known to the automotive industry and stripped all the toys out, replaced the body work with fiberglass panels, re-tuned the engine for racing, installed track suspension and tires and finally replaced the driver's seat and dashboard with a racing seat and a rev counter. No longer a SL-600, the car is now a Le Mans racer. It's still a Mercedes, and it's bloody quick around a course, but you wouldn't drive it to the bank. All the comfort and pleasure has been removed in favor of performance alone. I'm sure we'd all like to drive a race car around a track once, but 99.9% of us will be satisfied with one attempt at this reality and gladly drive home in our luxury street car.

That's how I view FFXIII. All the 'fluff' has been removed from the game, all that's left is the nuts and bolts of a RPG with a very direct story, and game map. I'm certain it will be gorgeous and that the story will be engaging. However for me, all that incidental stuff, all the customization and the like is what builds my emotional investment with the characters in the game.

15 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 1:05:45 AM

Oh, I've heard the bad things. I know I might not like this one. I was merely referring to the overreaction to a few new features that may or may NOT be problematic.

Trust me, I have my reservations.

8 up, 1 down

Highlander
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 1:12:29 AM

I think I understand.

I think the overwhelming feeling I have about this game is a hugely empty sense of anti-climax. I was so looking forward to this game originally, and as time has passed I became apprehensive. Now it looks like that apprehension was appropriate.

To quote a Star Trek TNG reference (bonus points for those that get it)

Shaka, when the walls fell.

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:02:36 AM

I hear ya Highlander, even though we don't have it in hand, it SOUNDS like it just isn't all it could be. Especially with the hardware it was intended for and the freakin time it took to make it. That's why I have my reservations as well, but even though a very few FF's have disappointed I still hold out hope this one won't with me.

(Sorry, the Star Trek reference only rings a bell, can't place it)

0 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Thursday, January 28, 2010 @ 9:50:52 PM

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:53:30 AM
Reply

And the next person who uses the word "linear" as if it's some kind of plague or curse on games without sufficiently backing up such a ridiculous claim, is gonna get it.

EDIT: I would also like to add that FFXIII could indeed be a huge disappointment for me. The point of the article was most certainly not to suggest that if you don't like it, there's something wrong with you. It's more of a commentary on how people think these days.

The mere fact that there are no towns may be enough to screw it up for me. There are MANY aspects of the game that might not resonate with RPG fans. I'm well aware of that. However, I take issue with those who say it's going "backwards" just because we don't run around big, bland, meaningless areas and and there might be more of a focus on story. That's all.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/23/2010 1:07:38 AM

4 up, 2 down

Highlander
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 1:16:27 AM

Right. The game hasn't gone backwards it's evolved. It may simply be that many of us do not like the new evolution of the game.

Perhaps they (SE) felt that progression meant losing a lot of the cliches that populate the JRPG landscape, such as towns and sidequests. I don't think I am ready to go down that evolutionary path just yet.

3 up, 0 down

Kiwi of DOOM
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:01:07 AM

You know what, i hope there's a huge focus on story. I loved FFX because of the story and for that reason alone it remains one of my favorite games of all time. It wasn't because of the exploration (or lack thereof) nor did it have anything to do with gameplay, graphics, or any minor technical things. It was, all in all, because of the story. Personally i thought the game, as a game and nothing more, was pretty good but not amazing. In my personal opinion however it remains in my top 3.

Besides that, i welcome the change. SE has brought change to us many times over that has supprised us. Maybe we'll like it, maybe we won't, but at least give it a chance.

I miss the time when a character died in a game and you felt sad for the loss it meant in the story not for the loss it meant in the fact that all your good equips were on that person and they were a critical part of your party.

Last edited by Kiwi of DOOM on 1/23/2010 2:05:02 AM

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:11:10 AM

Not a curse on games, I can't wait for the side quests in GOWIII! </sarcasm>

But yeah, it can be a pooper for JRPGs to have no freedom at all. I know I won't mind it much because I always got so hooked to the story that I just followed the maps like they were tubes anyway, but some folks do like to go off on wild level grinding expeditions for rare items they don't even need.

If it affects you at all Ben, it might be in the sense that your completionist mentality won't be of any use because you don't have to search for a single thing. Or rather, you can't.

Fark it, my preorder stands. You wanna fight about it?

1 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:34:17 AM

One thing I can promise you: just going through the game and "following the path" will NOT get you everything in FFXIII. ;)

5 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:50:01 AM

Lets hope so old man.

1 up, 1 down

Bigimpactpooch
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:11:28 AM
Reply

Blame it on Microsoft...for giving SE the idea to westernize it.

11 up, 1 down

Banky A
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:12:16 AM
Reply

Well it depends what those people mean by linear? If it's just a linear story that is epic, then that's awesome and fine by me. But if that means less mini-games and cool bonus stuff, later sidequests then that's obviiiously not good.

:D

2 up, 1 down

daus26
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:18:39 AM

Agree for sure.

I certainly don't mind a linear story, but gameplay shouldn't be too linear in an rpg game. By linear gameplay I mean action games like God of War and Uncharted.

Anyway, backtracking, exploration, sidequests, is what I've always enjoyed in a rpg game like FFXII and DragonQuest 8. I just hope FFXIII will have that element.

3 up, 0 down

Banky A
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:16:09 AM

*Jamaican accent* Ya' mon'.

2 up, 2 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:18:24 AM

I too am a big fan of exploration and side quests.I tend to put a lot more time on those aspects than the main quest.

Usually the main quest goes so quick,before you realize it the game is over. At least for me it's the side quest,exploration, and items that keep me coming back also fighting cool monsters in the process and/or rare monsters too.

4 up, 0 down

Kiwi of DOOM
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:13:11 AM
Reply

Forgive me for saying this (and i'm not arguing what you saw because i know you're right) but what is, say, God of War?

walk/battle/walk/battle/boss/walk ect.

That game(s) was still great no?

I've got to admit, i'm more than peeved about the lack of many things in FFXIII but it's just not enough for me to see why people would give up so quickly.

0 up, 3 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:18:46 AM

Yes but it's only 10 -20 hours. FFXIII supposed 50-60 hours. If God of War was that long, it would get old.

0 up, 0 down

Kiwi of DOOM
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:29:18 AM

True enough.

That's where we hope for an amazing story. For me, that's 70% of what my hopes for this game rest on.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:13:27 AM

I hope so too.

0 up, 0 down

mbg77
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:35:40 PM

I agree about GoW with you Kiwi. But that is a hack'n'slash game and not an JRPG.

2 up, 0 down

www
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:42:49 AM
Reply

I'll still get this game anyway. Its like there's no running away from it, FF is mandatory.

0 up, 0 down

Banky A
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:17:19 AM

&& Compulsory . .

0 up, 2 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:22:11 AM

Compulsory?????? lol. OK,ha. You better axe somebody.

0 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:35:07 AM

It's the same thing WWW said.

1 up, 0 down

Banky A
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:57:22 PM

Which is why I added the two full stop-dots to indicate my sarcasm..

:D

0 up, 2 down

Roach721
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 4:54:01 AM

Is that what thats suppose to mean,ok. I did'nt know that. ;)

0 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:20:02 AM
Reply

I've felt compelled to post my first comment. Been around for a few months reading articles though and for the first time I really disagree with you Ben.

To me, an even less open-ended FF is a devolution of the series. More depth should be being added to the experience, not taking away. A lot of people call Final Fantasy X a milestone game, and it might be, but it's no masterpiece. I feel exactly the same for FFXIII.

From the demo I looked at, and what I've read, it's a very impressive accomplishment but the concessions to the genre are pretty glaring. What your left with is dungeon crawling, cutting edge visually, but really the depth just isn't there. I want to feel the world breathing, I want to talk to people in cities, shop, explore the plains, find out interesting knowledge of the world and cultures around me.

In short, I think it's unfair to say the hate that is being put towards XIII is unfounded. There are quite a lot of questionable choices SE have done with this installment. I think it's more unfounded to shower it with unconditional praise.

10 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:32:12 AM

I'm glad you signed up.

But you're making a classic mistake: you're automatically assuming "open-ended" or added exploration somehow adds to the depth of a game. This is an idea that is very popular in the industry today but also crucially flawed.

I got no extra sense of depth from exploring the large maps in FFXII. Most of it was just barren, as it is in many RPGs that feature lots of so-called freedom. It doesn't really add anything to the game. What's the difference if I took a direct path through those huge areas or ran around to every corner...? The only difference is I might find another item, or something. It doesn't add to the storyline - the central focus - it doesn't add to the core gameplay (combat), and it really doesn't add much to the atmosphere.

The only thing you can say it does is offer more in the way of realism. ...but I checked, this is "Final FANTASY." ;)

5 up, 1 down

Kowhoho
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:39:25 AM

Final Fantasy?
...
...
THIS IS SPARTAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

3 up, 0 down

www
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:57:23 AM

Kowhoho, you forgot to kick the guy off the edge

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 9:51:34 PM

The thing about the exploration that most JRPG games feature is that it's not exploration that is generally relevant to the story. It's generally speaking an exploration of the map to find obscure items, mini-games, and of course random battles when you are needing to grind a level or two. Don't get me wrong, I like this. When these things are implemented in the game world in a way that integrates into the setting, it makes the game world feel more like a living and breathing world. Shops selling utterly useless items that you buy merely to buy them for example, are just the kind of fluff that some loathe and some love. I love that kind of thing.

But if you deconstruct the JRPG and simply remove the fluff and connect the story together chapter by chapter then you end up with a very direct game with little in the way of deviation. I see this a lot when someone posts a ludicrous play-through time of a dozen hours or something and then you find that they did no side quests, and ignored everything except the 'critical' path through the story.

FFXIII at the moment looks to me like a game designed for that kind of player. It's still a JRPG, but it's not the kind of JRPG that I personally prefer, and I suspect I'm not alone. But having thought and written about this a lot now, I do think that we do at least need to understand that this evolution of the game takes it in a new direction and that for many players this may be just their kind of game.

Kinda sucks if you are a fan of the series but not this approach to the game.

5 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:24:42 AM
Reply

I thought this was the next generation of gaming,oh well so much for Blu-Ray.

0 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:28:36 AM
Reply

Good luck trying to fill a disc that holds 6 terabytes SE. They can't even handle a Blu-Ray. Let alone this new disc that sony is suppose to be working on.

0 up, 0 down

Geobaldi
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 5:39:50 AM
Reply

I never understood how people complained about the cutscene lengths. People complained about the lengths of the Xenosaga cutscenes also but those were some of the best story cutscenes ever to grace a game besides the Metal Gear series. I don't mind taking a break from gameplay to watch a story unfold. Assuming the story is good. And that's an area Final Fantasy has never failed in. And I get the feeling that most of this hate is aimed more particularly at Square/Enix than Final Fantasy XIII due to this generations business practices. I have no problem with S/E personally, every business goes through changes in the attempt to generate more revenue. Not everybody is going to agree with those changes however. And some people just will not except change no matter what. Just like almost, if not all, Final Fantasy games have had negative feedback since every game in the series changes something so it plays somewhat different that the previous entries in the series. Content being cut out of a game is nothing new. There's no telling just how much content is ommitted from most games seeing as how most companies don't talk about that aspect in depth very often. S/E could've cut the content so the game could be the same for both systems. They could've cut it for other reasons also(not fitting with the story, dull areas, not enough time, unfinished, etc.) Or a combination of al those things. Either way, I still believe that more people will enjoy and praise the game than those that don't.

2 up, 0 down

tes37
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 6:53:31 AM
Reply

I am disappointed by all the things being said about FFXIII and it is having the most impact in my decision to pass on getting it. However, this is my favorite gaming site and if the majority of rpg fans in this community say it's good after they play it, I may change my mind.

1 up, 0 down

JackC8
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 7:39:27 AM
Reply

Reminds me of the days long ago when I used to post on political boards LOL. Start by labeling those who disagree with you as "haters", even though a better description would be "not too excited about it". Then engage in exactly the same behavior you're criticizing them for, i.e. making prejudgments about something you know nothing about.

Whatever. I'll wait until it comes out and see if it's something I might like or not.

2 up, 0 down

Lotusflow3r
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 7:53:21 AM
Reply

Missed the point.

This is, if what we have heard is true, a piss poor representation of a JRPG and a FF. FFX was still good despite it's linear toan. It still had side quests, towns and tons to work with....FFXlll apparently does not.

therefore i am not interested...and if i want a good story, i would certainly not go for a FF game lol i'd watch a movie by Park Chan Wook or something!

But, as im over the 100 comment mark, no point me elaborating, no one will see it.

FFXlll remains an insult if all is true.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 1/23/2010 7:54:03 AM

3 up, 3 down

Kowhoho
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:41:15 AM

Don't worry, I see you ( not in the Avatar way). I think it's unfair to cal XIII an "insult" just for being different.

2 up, 0 down

therabbitkinge
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 8:36:41 AM
Reply

Man some of us here would make for the worst jury in history lol persecuting the accused before they've even taken the stand lol ^_^

All in all I think while it may not be something we were all looking foward to, it may very well be a great FF game and given the effort that was put into it we should embrace it just a tad more... there has to be more then a few people here looking foward to this title...right?

And yeah I get the arguments
1- removing parts of the game so its on par with the 360
2- "linear" gameplay and plot outline (which I'll honestly say isn't all that bad especially if the game has a story it wants to tell and wants to drive you through that story all the way)
3- the fact that it came out on the 360 at all.
And all the other points argued in truth do not take much from it being a good game, maybe not a great new FF game but a great game in the FF series... that's all im trying ti say ya'll ^_^

1 up, 1 down

LightShow
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 8:53:22 AM
Reply

so i'll prob rent, then buy a year from now when the price has dropped to acceptable levels.

the fact that enix didnt even think to make the PS3 edition a "directors cut" of sorts, keeping in the content that they had to cut from the 360 version, kinda breaks it for me.

i said a long time ago that if enix cut from the game to get it on the 360 this game would go from a day one purchase to a rental. i just dont have the coin nowadays to buy every game that might be awesome.

unfortunately for enix, i have to prioritize, and their decisions have knocked them down quite a few notches on my priorities list, and probably lost them a sale.

3 up, 0 down

Buckeyestar
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 9:18:49 AM
Reply

Let's see, Microshaft drops the moneybag to take away the exclusivity that might have made for a more impressive game. Then nearly half the content is cut to make it fit on 3 DVDs to appease the 3fixme crowd, thus robbing us of content. What's not to hate?

5 up, 3 down

tes37
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:17:49 PM

The ps1 FF games had 4 discs, and yet somehow the xbox 360 is too good for that. 4 dvds on the xbox 360 would have allowed ps3 owners to have more content.

1 up, 0 down

DeusExMachina
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 9:35:09 AM
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I agree with you 100% Ben. I also like my FFs more linear and story centric with a semi explorative in the latter half of the game, bit Ive heard from importers the main complaint about FFXIII is there is NO BACKTRACKING AT ALL and there is NO INTERACTIVE AIRSHIP IN-GAME (one in the cutscens and storyline though). Although, thats what Ive heard, so I cant say for sure. Im still getting though, Im really looking forward to it.

0 up, 1 down

JPBooch
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 9:57:55 AM
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The last Final Fantasy game I played was 1 and 2 on the GameBoy about 20 years ago, lol.

I'm excited for this game, I know nothing about the story lines, characters, or even how the battle system works. Am I in for a bumpy ride? I love traditional RPG's, but the last jRPG I played was I guess the rain slicked precupices of some bull shit...I really didn't like the combat in it, aside from the game just being raunchy.

From what I read, the xbox wasn't the reason why the content was cut. The game takes up 39GB on the Blu-Ray, plenty of space for the extra content. My guess is that they cut it for DLC. (I had a few comments with Jawknee on the last article about this. The artivcle I referenced said FFXIII maximized the BR disk, but in reality it looks like it just came down to it being the biggest game released so far.)

1 up, 1 down

Kowhoho
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:33:53 AM

Wow, that's awesome (playing FF 20 years ago). If you're interested in other FFs, go find FFX. It's my personal favorite :p. I know other people would say that FF7,8 or 9 are the best so I'll just tell you that those are worth it too so they don't have to. :)

Last edited by Kowhoho on 1/23/2010 10:35:34 AM

0 up, 0 down

www
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:01:12 AM

"From what I read, the xbox wasn't the reason why the content was cut. The game takes up 39GB on the Blu-Ray, plenty of space for the extra content. My guess is that they cut it for DLC"

JPBooch, you think they'll ever say the truth that 'Oh the 360's to blame'??? That statement made by that Square guy that 'volume bla bla' gives you a hint. They'll never admit DVD9s restricted them.

3 up, 2 down

CH1N00K
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:04:30 AM

lol, why not just tell him to go find as many as he can and get playing, I never really got into FF until FFVII, so that one always holds a place in my memories, but I had a roommate once who swore by V and VI so when they redid them for the PS1 he ran out and bought them. So did I.

Now my FF collection includes everything except for XI, because online didn't interest me at the time, (You know because of my anti-social nature from being a gamer :D)but I am highly interested in how XIV is going to turn out.

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 7:50:41 PM

The size of the blue Ray isnt problem. Especially now that they've increased the size of blue Ray discs. Believe what you like, but its MORE likely the content was cut due to DVD9 limitations. Not Blue Ray. That article you posted on the previous thread did indeed claim the game was 40GB, but that conflicts with what Square said just weeks before. Google it. They said it would ship on a duel layer blue Ray and take up about 25gb+. So I don't know. Either Square is lying(which is likely) or that article is(also likely).

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/23/2010 7:54:04 PM

2 up, 2 down

CH1N00K
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:58:36 AM
Reply

I know this will probably get me burned by a few people, but I've been looking at the comments on the linear problem. Aren't all video games ever made technically "Linear"?

Sure there are little side quests in some games ,commonly known as RPG's or Sandbox, but in the end you are still following a pretty linear path to finish the main story as the main story very rarely deviates. Even with a the addition of the Karma system into games now, when you replay the story as good or evil, the storyline doesn't change all that much.

Even MMO's have a pretty linear storyline, it's just how you choose to get to the end result that changes.

Now I've been playing a bit of Crisis Core on the PSP which seems to be close to what the issues with FFXIII are going to be, I'm only a little ways in but so far it's been.

No shops(shopping is done at save points)
I only play as one character, no deciding battle plans for anyone else.

No deviating from the road to go explore, you follow the path laid out for you.

While I've played CC, I've been thinking, sure the game is fun, for a handheld game. It would even be fun on the PS3, but it doesn't feel like an FF game to me.

I'm going to try to keep an open mind when XIII releases, but if I'm not feeling it..there's nothing I can do about that.

Something that's been nagging at the back of my mind though is that with these latest installments, with different battle systems, if Square-Kleenex does decide to do a remake of FFVII, what battle system will they use? If they use their new system, the internet is going to burn up with comments about how they've ruined the game.

I for one kind of miss the old days when in the heat of battle you had to hurry and try and decide what you wanted you party characters to do instead of having the computer decide for you.

But that's just me, and I'm not you, so what do you think?

Last edited by CH1N00K on 1/23/2010 10:59:55 AM

1 up, 0 down

komotaya
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:01:04 AM
Reply

i have no issue the the cut scenes they are part of any game and i always look forward to them, the only thing i mad about is what a few people b4 me said, and that is the fact that so much content got cut to accommodate xbox and that is enraging, since ff has always been for PS and i feel as if the price should be dropped only because they know they didn't put all the content into it that they were suppose to

0 up, 0 down

Chrasilis
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:04:00 AM
Reply

You PLAY games. You READ books. You WATCH movies.

I love to read. I love movies. I love video games even more.

Still, why not complain if a video game isn't as fun on the gameplay side? Or even more, in this day and age, RPGs should not be so linear.

This generation of gaming has pushed technology far and beyond anything before it and, as such, games are evolving more and more into freeform experiences with more places to explore.

Now, don't get me wrong here, there are plenty of linear experiences. Gears of War, Uncharted and, for the most part, even stuff like inFamous and Prototype can be considered quite linear. But to be honest, all of those games still offer varying degrees of optional exploration and things to do. Final Fantasy XIII does not. It's THAT linear.

Sure, it's Final Fantasy, but that has no merit. Those stories have always been generic when compared to other series, with a slew of cliche characters that can be found in nearly any standard anime out there. I've completed every single one of the major Final Fantasy titles over the course of my life, as well as Final Fantasy Tactics and it's sequels, and of them, the only ones that really mattered in my own opinion were the 8 and 16-bit titles, the original FFT excluded. After that, everything felt like 3D rehashes with failed attempts at making the gameplay more "innovative." The original FFT is the only part of the series that genuinely has a unique story with a cast of complex characters that really matter. Plus, the job system and complex combat of the SRPG genre made it a lot more fun to PLAY, but without sacrificing any quality on the story side of things.

So, what am I getting at? Fanboys will be fanboys. People like Final Fantasy because they've been blindly devoted to the brand forever. If you remove all bias and play around with other (better) JRPGs, it becomes obvious that Final Fantasy simply isn't as good as it used to be in most cases.

Bottom line: If you're not a fanboy, FF13 wont be very fun. If you are, you'll love it because it's Final Fantasy. The story is boring, the game is far too linear, the audiovisual experience is not above anything else we've seen this generation and the character depth is highly lacking. Top that off with a big case of "not enough extra stuff to do" and you have a recipe for a long and drawn out experience that just doesn't cut it.

</my 2 cents>

1 up, 4 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:25:06 AM

I'm not going to get into this, but I sense something I often sense from veteran gamers: elite old-school-ism.

I've seen it many times before. The inane belief that somehow the Final Fantasies on the SNES were actually BETTER than the ones after. I've played them all, too, and the 16-bit FFs were wonderful for the time but downright silly and archaic even by PlayStation standards. There's no exploration at all (direct paths through EVERY area), the world map allows for really only ONE direction at any given time (future parts don't open until you trigger them in the storyline), and the freakin' dialogue was written by a 9-year-old. Oh, and you couldn't GET more cliched characters for a fantasy adventure.

I loved them. Still do. But to claim they're somehow a better - or more pure - example of role-playing than the "3D rehashes" that came after it isn't opinion...it's just wrong. It's rose-colored glasses of nostalgia. There were NO rehashes. If you actually could've played those games WITHOUT the bias towards the older titles, you would've realized that not a single one played like the one before it. The changing up of gameplay mechanics through FFX, along with the constantly changing character advancement techniques and systems (from Materia to Junction to the Sphere Grid), always made them feel fresh.

I've played just about every other JRPG, too. And no, most of them don't provide any better gameplay systems - in fact, none do, and no franchise is always endlessly inventive as FF has been in terms of how our characters get better and how we prepare for battle - and almost none provide better stories. Of course there's nothing fantastic about FF plots in comparison to good books and movies; no video game can stand up to that comparison. But relatively speaking, there are few RPG series that can compete with the depth of most FFs. Only Suikoden comes to mind.

And these days, most JRPGs are so over-the-top anime-ish with their childish and incessantly annoying voices, RIDICULOUSLY cliched and over-done characters, and just a bunch of flash over the same ol' same ol' gameplay systems, they're almost not worth buying anymore. I'm sure you'd be one of those people who might support Last Rebellion...I know someone who has already played it and I know what it is...mostly, a disappointment.

I'm also hoping you've actually played FFXIII. Because that judgment you just passed can't possibly come from someone who has only read information on the game...if it did, it's worthless.

5 up, 4 down

CH1N00K
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:33:10 AM

I think people that aren't fanboys will still enjoy this game, because if you're not a big fan of the Final Fantasy series, chances are this may be the first FF you'll play.

When I read your comment a strange thought hit me. Who did SE make FF XIII for? Ever since the PS1 and FFVII, they've always had their Sony fans, when they switched to Sony, there were a lot of Nintendo fans who were disappointed to be losing the series, but most got over it.

Now, SE is trying to draw in the MS fans. Who as the numbers show are majority American. Who also, for the most part, have only shown slight interest in JRPG's. And who, for the most part, will be playing a FF game for the first time ever. This game and it's mechanics weren't necessarily designed for the long time fans of the series, because the few fans that SE will lose when the game releases will pale in comparison to the many new ones that will be jumping on board when the MS gamers play.

And years down the road you will have people remembering back fondly on the FF series as 13 being one of the best games they ever played because it was their first, just like many of us now remember VII being their favorite, or whichever one you played that got you hooked.

SE is taking a gamble by trying to appeal to a western audience which may or may not pay off, but if it does pay off, imagine how many people will strongly consider buying a PS3 when Versus XIII launches.(if it remains exclusive)

2 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:52:01 AM

I hear ya, my elite old-schoolism has become a massive club foot I keep trippin over.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/23/2010 11:52:26 AM

2 up, 1 down

reryan
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:18:07 AM
Reply

Im a big final fantasy fan. But having been a gamer for about 15 years or so, I have noticed that every time a new concept is being introduced to a game series, gamers are very resistant to change, and they bemoan the loss of 'old-school' game values. Example: Legend of Zelda Wind Waker was an example of shiny new cel-shaded graphics, and fans were rabid over it because it was different than Ocarina of Time. Only later was Wind Waker recognized as one of the best games of the series.
In terms of final fantasy, people complained when turnbased combat went to ATB battles. And they complained when ATB battles went back to turnbased in ffx. I played FFXI online for 3 years and I used to read whole forums of complaints every single time there was an update or change to the game.
My point is only this: its impossible to please everyone, and in having played every final fantasy from III-XII, Kingdom Hearts 1-2, FF tactics advance, crisis core, and so on for seemingly endless hours throughout my life, Square knows what they are doing in making games. They always deliver on quality, they always deliver on fanservice. We don't owe them fanboy-ism, but we do owe them a chance by playing FF13 with an open mind and an open heart.

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 11:49:36 AM

I remember the hoopla about Wind Waker. I was one of the few who was actually excited about the new design. Wind Waker and the handhelds that followed remain some of my favorite Zeldas to date.

0 up, 0 down

CH1N00K
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:38:22 AM
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Oh and Kudos Ben for writing another article that has definitely got the comments section lit up. Good amount of traffic on this one. ;)

1 up, 0 down

REDZONE
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:00:38 PM
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i'm a fan of all the ff games,and from the looks of 13, i don't think i'm going to be too disappointed

Last edited by REDZONE on 1/23/2010 12:01:05 PM

2 up, 0 down

hehateme
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:33:59 PM
Reply

they needa stop all this world of warcraft battle system and go back to what made this franchise THE franchise....i use to level up for 6hours at a time!!!!! and focus of the GF's and the OLD battle system

0 up, 2 down

Nerull
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 12:44:24 PM
Reply

I was never that interested in XIII. I'll always love tactics and I loved the mechanics of XII but I'm just not into JRPG's much anymore.
I don't mind a linear game, I just can't stand the characters anymore when theres other options. If its true how much they cut out, then all the more reason to pass.

1 up, 0 down

maxpontiac
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:14:11 PM
Reply

Well Ben, look no further then the very piece you wrote on the subject, and my guess is, the very things you wrote about provide a good "foundation"..

http://www.psxextreme.com/feature/507.html

Quoting you -

"Let's just face up to facts: you simply can't jam as much information onto a DVD (dual layer or no) as you can in comparison to a Blu-Ray disc."

"But now, we're starting to think about what we're missing"

"This doesn't really concern me; what concerns me is the following thought: what if the developers were allowed to cut loose with the PS3? What if they were allowed to generate plenty of open environments with a certain visual quality the 360 simply couldn't handle?"

"An open letter might read, "Dear Microsoft, thanks for wrecking FF." Perhaps that's a bit too drastic but at the same time, I might formulate another, maybe more accurate, letter-"Dear Xbox 360, thanks for holding the PlayStation 3 back."

I was going to explain my feelings on this subject, but decided not to. I felt you answered your own questions perfectly..

3 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:51:59 PM

Entirely different topic, even if the same game is involved.

2 up, 5 down

maxpontiac
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 6:04:31 PM

To me, it's not. Why? All of these issues are one piece of complete puzzle.

Us PS3 fans will never know what FF13 would have been like if it was given the same treatment as a PS3 exclusive. The very idea brings on endless possiblities.

We all know the what putting a game on the 360 means, and I won't go into it any further then mentioning the Blu Ray and HDD in evey PS3 for the sake of sanity.

To me and others, this very reason is why FF13 will recieve heat, and continue to do so. Some of the issues are without merit, and your article rightly critizes them.

However, take a look at MGS4, Uncharted 2, and Killzone 2. Now imagine how much "content" would have been removed and "corners" cut, if these titles were multiplatform?

My point can be taken even further by examining GT5 with the features and content that we know are coming, and then running a comparison to Forza 3. There is a big difference already, and GT5 hasn't even been released yet.

7 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 7:33:24 PM

I'm well aware of all that. It's why I wrote the first article.

My point in this one is to target those complaining about other aspects of the game that might not be as troublesome as believed.

1 up, 3 down

maxpontiac
Monday, January 25, 2010 @ 1:09:32 PM

I hear you. As always, thanks for replying to me.

1 up, 0 down

Alienange
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 2:51:44 PM
Reply

Ben... I simply cannot remain quiet about this article any longer. It is by FAR, one of the best articles I've ever read on this site. Your passion for gaming is evident in every sentence and it is to be commended if only by no one else but a fellow gamer.

*standing O*

6 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:51:43 PM

Thank you. :)

3 up, 1 down

Nlayer
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 3:40:07 PM
Reply

Very well said Ben! You are absolutely right!

2 up, 1 down

Gamer Girl Gemo
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 3:40:48 PM
Reply

Kick some ass Ben! The best part of video games, aside from either the constant action or the interactive gameplay, is the story! The storyline is one of my favorite things in video games! So, which are you going to remember more? The each and every battle encountered, or the storyline? Hm... I'm gonna go with, obviously, the storyline! We don't sit around talking about our battle experiences, who's head we chopped off, or which weapon we used (Although the case may be a little different for GOW lol), we mainly talk about what's going on in the storyline!
I haven't played Fallout or Killzone, but don't you think constant action can get a little annoying? Get involved! Cause who doesn't love a good story? And aren't games interactive movies?
Anyway, I agree with you 100% Ben, all the way!

1 up, 1 down

Douchebaguette
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 6:03:08 PM

I beg to differ. With games like Final Fantasy the three main features that give you that Final Fantasy "trancy vibe" are:

- Nobuo Uematsu [melancholic music].
- Design [those pwetty pre-rendered backgrounds].
- Presentation [of chacracters, script].

...hmm...ok, obviously those 3 ^ features merely decorate the main structure [the storyline] but if you imagine stripping them away from previous & popular FF titles, you'd pretty much get a flawed & possibly cringeful nutshell of a plot. My point is storyline isn't everything; with games like FF it's about everything you do within the game and how it makes you feel.

2 up, 0 down

Gamer Girl Gemo
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 3:22:10 AM

@Douchebaguette

I see what you mean and everything, but without the story everything's just completely dull and boring... Sure, the fights are essential to move things on in the game overall and to make us more interested and interactive in the game. And I know this is true with the FF series. But the backbone that fuels everything is storyline, plot, and character development... Well, more or less of that last one, but anyway...
I was just making a point that people should appreciate the story more rather than just the battles and such. But I do, nonetheless, agree with you.

0 up, 1 down

Gamer Girl Gemo
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 3:56:47 PM
Reply

And why does it seem that there has been so much drama and hate within the comments for this one? The comments area has always been a civilized place so.... What happened?
If you don't agree with someone's opinion, that's your problem! And, if you just have to say something, just do it politely. We've been one of the most civilized gaming sites (That I know of, anyhow), so why ruin it now? Just keep the peace coming...

0 up, 2 down

Roach721
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 5:12:37 AM

I think everyone has been pretty civil.So far.

2 up, 0 down

AceTatsujin
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:45:57 PM
Reply

FFVII -- best FF.
FFVI -- unique FF.
and FFX -- beautiful FF.

The rest of the FF's were complete utter garbage. XII was an MMO.

Last edited by AceTatsujin on 1/23/2010 4:46:27 PM

0 up, 11 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 4:51:25 PM

No, XII was not an MMO. That's a retarded statement.

7 up, 1 down

Ultimadream
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 6:18:24 PM

Lol obvously he's just talking about the gameplay... (and lack of story)

With FFXIII issues, i will still get it, At least with it being linear the story shall be more structured, though as FF is meant to be the icon of RPG's it should really act like one, but i guess i'll have to wait and see how it turns out.

Last edited by Ultimadream on 1/23/2010 6:18:41 PM

1 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 7:31:52 PM

Even the gameplay isn't MMO-like and theresn't a "lack of story." There was more story than in most any other RPG, as there is with any FF.

2 up, 1 down

kokoro
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 10:18:42 PM

you obviously have not played FF8-

0 up, 4 down

mbg77
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 6:25:17 PM
Reply

I want to say something about LINEAR because i think a lot of us is missing the point.

A game needs to be linear if it is to tell a great story.

At the beginning of the game you as the main character are setting yourself a goal and from that point on the game becomes linear. You're doing everything to achieve this goal. There can be many paths to do this. But it is a line.

And you can't have a non linear game with great story. Because non linear would mean that you can say 'OK, I'm not going anywhere. I'm good just as I am.'. And if you do not tend towards your goal then the story ends then and there.

Take care.

Last edited by mbg77 on 1/23/2010 6:29:05 PM

5 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 7:31:01 PM

Exactly correct.

4 up, 3 down

herukuti
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 6:58:15 PM
Reply

ive never been a fan of final antasy; and the only sqenix game like it that was good to me was chrono trigger.objectively ff13 gets hate because its new and different from other ff titles, so different in ways that people hate it.

1 up, 1 down

orangpelupa
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 7:46:08 PM
Reply

bah the usual FF series is linear, too much video etc etc and so on bla bla

but that IS the reason i like FF series.

I even remember in PS1 and PS2 days, i always copy the FMV (video) data from my game disc to my pc.

after end the game, it really good to be able to see the FMVs again, remembering things.
the dance scene in FF 8 is good. And many FF X FMV also good.

btw, in any FF 13 news why i always see a comment blaming x360....

Last edited by orangpelupa on 1/23/2010 7:49:25 PM

1 up, 0 down

therabbitkinge
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 9:22:08 PM
Reply

MAN I LOVE THIS SITE! Nowhere else can I get such varied points of view from some of the most conflicted minds in gaming! The insight I get here on my games on a daily basis is miles beyond what I'd get before I discovered PSXE!
(Sorry for the fit of jubilation but damn these comments are always a thrilling and educational read ^_^)

11 up, 0 down

Akuma07
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 10:35:33 PM

This is the biggest comment section, I have seen in ANY article on this website ever.

But then again i havnt paid that much attention.

0 up, 0 down

___________
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:04:33 PM
Reply

every single review i read the complaints are exactly the same.
the game is far to linear, its suppose to be a open world game with cities a world map to explore.
thats the whole point of a RPG to be able to explore.
imagine fallout 3 but your stuck to the vault you cant exit that one area.
even my cuz who is a final fantasy fanatic says its the worst in the series.
when $e said in no way has porting it to the 360 effected the ps3 version of the game i kinda believed them, i thought they would just dumb down the graphics, sound and such.
i never thought they would turn a RPG, a open world game into a linear action game.

1 up, 3 down

sazzrah
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:17:55 PM
Reply

Call me a simpleton, but when people started comparing this game to FFX I was quite happy. I would welcome another FF game that was more like FFX - it was the FF game that brought me into the fold after all.

I shall reserve judgement until I play the game; so far I haven't read anything that makes me particularly worried.

0 up, 0 down

Fresh
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:54:15 PM
Reply

I registered just to say a few things.

First of all I understand where some of you are coming from saying there's no towns or npcs and stuff..But gee hmm lets use our brains for a minute shall we? Why the f**k would fugitives waltz into random towns like they own the place and buy stuff from merchants? Or even talking to npcs? They are WANTED it would make no sense for towns them to be going in to towns with no repercussions. This simply isn't the game for that those types of things. Granted they could disguise themselves or something along those lines to enter a town but from what I understand, it would be simply illogical? They have a goal in mind to complete and they aren't going to spend it wasting time. FF games have always been heavily based on story and based on the way they designed this game, it seems that hasn't changed.

Also the whole linearity aspect really is dependent on who you are as a gamer..but lemme say that FF13 is far from being the first linear game. In the series itself 10 was linear, and there a lot of other games that are linear.

1 up, 3 down

Highlander
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 12:58:03 PM

Here's the issue with your post, and it started with your first sentence.

Final Fantasy is a RPG video game, and you cannot - absolutely cannot - expect any RPG, especially a JRPG to follow the logic of reality. No fugitives in reality are likely to lay low and avoid towns. This isn't reality it's a video game, a JRPG, and above all a final fantasy game. You simple can't use real world logic to say that having NPCs and towns would be inappropriate. In JRPGs it just doesn't work like that. There are certain elements that make a RPGs (and JRPGs in particular) what they are.

Last time I will use the word linear to describe this game, here goes. The story is always linear, that's kinda the point of an RPG - to tell a story, however the game itself doesn't have to enforce the nose to tail chapter by chapter telling. You can have lulls in the story where the player can pause to play some minigames, complete some side quests talk to silly, pointless NPCs, shop, remake the party, re-equip and level up as needed. I probably spend as much or more time doing these things in a typical RPG as I do following the story. Including those kinds of additional elements provide additional paths through the game with some items and skills only available through side quests. It lets no two players have exactly the same play through. It adds variety. FFXIII offers the basic gameplay without the extras, you play straight through the story without pausing or deviating. That is the kind of linearity that people are worrying about.

5 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Thursday, January 28, 2010 @ 10:10:01 PM

I can't agree with the idea that "tradition" should trump "logic" with regard to anything, fantastic or not.

That said, I'm with those who are skeptical about these particular design decisions. It really does seem like a regression rather than a progression.

I will, however, withhold judgement until I know more.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 1/28/2010 10:16:57 PM

0 up, 0 down

pillz81
Saturday, January 23, 2010 @ 11:59:06 PM
Reply

Well MY hate is based on the Japanese fans response. And they played it. It is the sum of its parts that seems to have soured many people.

Last edited by pillz81 on 1/24/2010 12:01:30 AM

3 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 7:50:54 AM

Haters are always more vocal (and louder) than the rest.

For your information, Final Fantasy XIII, even with all this "loud" hate from those Japanese gamers (¬_¬), was still voted 2nd best game of 2009 according to Dengeki. Second only to Dragon Quest IX. A game series that has always been more popular than Final Fantasy in Japan.

^_-

Last edited by n/a on 1/24/2010 7:52:37 AM

1 up, 0 down

Crabba
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 1:50:37 AM
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Great rant/editorial Ben!

"If you want something like Fallout go freakin' play it. Stop believing that one type is somehow superior or "more advanced" than the other. And above all else, stop believing that everybody wants the same thing!"

Couldn't have said it better myself, and that could be said for a lot of games, not just Final Fantasy XIII!!

0 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 10:37:33 AM
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FF 13 is why people play mmorpgs now. They want a consistant world to find things, to explore and make THIER OWN STORY WITHIN THE MAIN STORY, or even just make thier own story altogether.

The old RPGS you had to level and prove your strength, thus the level grinds. I mean in the original FF you actually got to change classes and you felt like you did something and all the grinding was worth it to do so. But now all RPGS are nothing more than DIGITAL BOOKS that you play. You have one path that leads to one outcome. Sure SquareEnix adds alot of bells and whistles, but you are playing THIER STORY and in no way are YOU in the story, you are basically just along for the ride ........ just like reading a book.

In this NOW AGE too many whiners hate the grind or just dont have to time. All they want are characters and something to kill to keep the story going. No accomplishment of getting stronger or working hard to get it. Just go to the next part of the story.

There is nothing wrong with FF 13. It is a game. A good game. This game will sell well. But old schoolers like me dont like FF anymore and stopped liking it at 10 or later on.

Bah. Im just ranting. But this is why I love the strategy games like FF tactics, Vandal Hearts, Vagrant Story, and Fire Emblem so much. You have to make your characters stronger through leveling and getting better stats to fighting and learning your enemies. Just seems to me that less playing and more WATCHING entertainment is coming and that is not really for me.

But that doesnt make FF 13 a bad game. Just that FF has shifted it's focus to trying to reach a larger audience for better profit and if that means making a FF where we just watch it instead of playing it ..... then they will.

I would rather play the new Vandal Hearts on PSN than FF 13.

End of Line.

3 up, 3 down

Highlander
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 12:59:39 PM

"Just seems to me that less playing and more WATCHING entertainment is coming and that is not really for me. "

Excellence is rewarded with thumbs UP!

3 up, 2 down

Setsuken
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 10:42:45 AM
Reply

I agree with you on the fact that Square-Enix focusing more on story again is a GREAT thing. I loved all the old FFs which did do this, and I wasn't a big fan of FFXII. I do not LOVE games like Fallout (although I liked Obilivion cause it was in a Fantasy Setting of sorts).

Games that have stories intrigue me a lot (MGS, FF, Heavy Rain) but there has to be good gameplay to backup the story.

The issue for me with these complaints is that FFXIII is not being as much of an FF as the old past iterations.

FFVII, VIII, IX and X had side quests, Towns, NPCs, Extensive Battle systems, leveling up systems, skills to learn. Sure, it was never the emphasis, and the reason you played the games was for the story, but the battle system was still deep and fun.

The fact that FFXIII is losing a big part of the FF series, and focusing SOLELY on JUST the Story and battles... makes me real sad =/

2 up, 0 down

b3mike
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 4:22:08 PM
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Ben this is a direct contradiction of your previous article!

2 up, 1 down

Temjin001
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 5:14:13 PM
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--thats the whole point of a RPG to be able to explore--

nameless person,

Who defines the RPG? Do you think that when the creators of FF sit down to discuss their new game they spend much time trying to rigidly adhere to a subjective set of ideals that define a RPG? If you're not interested in the direction that Square-Enix, or any developer, is going with their game you'd do well to accept it and find creations from others that are better suited for your interests. Of course you can speak your mind, and perhaps your voice may have influence, but don't assume that any dev is obligated to first serve your perspective over theirs. Square-Enix draws in millions of sales with every major FF release. They know their market, and have done well to keep their franchise alive, even after 13 core games.

0 up, 0 down

just2skillf00l
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 5:32:34 PM
Reply

There have been lots of views flying in from many-a-readers. Some saying they harbor hate for this FF game, others content with the straight path, and some are simply disappointed with the series of unfortunate events that led this game to being the way it is. I find myself fitting in with the disappointed group.

Now this disappointment isn't unsound or unfounded. Yes I can say that I haven't played the game. However, it has already been confirmed that content from the game has been discarded from the final release. This discarded content was important to me.

Included in that discarded content are towns and side-missions. These two elements alone add a bit more to the game which some people may not appreciate. Exploring towns, thus meeting town's people, lead to conversations about the current in-game situation. With more exploration of towns one may find mini-games that may be annoying and insignificant to some, but to others, memorable experiences that add a different pace and somewhat installs a sense of culture into this particular final fantasy world.

I like combat of course. Who doesn't? This is the determining factor in buying a game for me. Yes it even outstrips story which comes in a very near second. If the combat system blows, then you can expect 90% of your gaming experience to be more tedious and less enjoyable than calculating the steps it takes to walk up a flight of stairs at a certain amount of steps per area walked.

I'm not gonna say this game will suck, because well I haven't played it and two well that's as subjective as everyone liking different foods. But I will say that I'm disappointed that a piece of an RPG has been thrown into the abyss. Although it may not be that important to everyone, although some people may not appreciate the small things in life, it doesn't mean that everyone doesn't.

I'm not that guy who complains just to complain. It's just that when you look forward to something for a long time, especially from the Final Fantasy franchise, you expect a full package. To me, an RPG puts you into a completely different world, and all the elements of a complete one (to me) include towns, side-quests, mini-games, and even those generic characters that populate those small towns and villages.

Me, I'm not one to hate, I'm simply disappointed. It may be true that side-quests aren't necessities, along with towns, mini-games, and those non-playable characters. However, when did the small things in games become insignificant.

Thinking back to dead space, wasn't the zero gravity basketball mini-game pointless, I mean related to the story, it had no connection. It was there however, to show that before the necromorph epidemic, there were human beings who cherished more than just work and there jobs. They needed to have fun as well. This actually builds upon the story of the crew in the spacecraft.

So when they discarded this content from FF13 I felt like they took out some of the story as well. Maybe not tied to the main story of discrimination and fighting for freedom, but what the cities and towns were like before everything went downhill.

It's an opinion. It's just my honest opinion. The game may be great when it releases. But before now or a few articles ago, I had no doubt in my mind whether or not I would purchase Final Fantasy 13. It was a no-brainer, for me, and I'm pretty sure many others out there had the same opinion. But now, I'm gazing at a world lacking the extras that I've known to love in an RPG and I find myself, not angry, not furious, just simply disappointed.

It may be my own fault, not being able to let go of the past so that I can move on to a different future. Not accepting something different than the norm usually has this affect on people. I'm still willing to give this game a chance but I'll check this site first before I make any rash decisions.

I'm looking forward to the review of this game.
Ben, are you handling this one?

1 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 7:03:41 PM

It might be a dual review. Not sure yet.

1 up, 1 down

DeathOfChaos
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 6:07:27 PM
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I have to say, all the reasons you brung up have nothing to do with some of the dislikes I have with the game. People who say it has too much story is stupid, that's what I play a Final Fantasy for in the first place, lol. But my main concerns about FFXIII are things like the theme given for the NA release...most annoying part of the game yet, lol. Also, the content they've left out just ruins it for me. And about the whole FFX thing, it is a lot like FFX, too much like it. Especially the plains area, seems WAAY too much like FFX to me, lol. I seen a video of a side boss, the junbo cactuar, which was like the only thing that got me excited about the game since the 2006 trailer showing the oh so much better gameplay. Anyway, the way the game has come out to be, I would rather wait for the Greatest Hits or an internation PS3 only edition that includes that amusment park with the zoo, Lightning Home, and the NORA secret base, cleverly hidden just like the Avalanche lair underneath seventh heaven. I think I wanna wait till an international version, lol.

0 up, 0 down

just2skillf00l
Sunday, January 24, 2010 @ 11:38:37 PM
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Dual review possible, huh? Well I'll be looking forward to whatever is released. I've read some other articles from rpgland, and rpgfan(this one was really good I thought) and a bunch of other articles from other sites addressing FF13 reviewing many aspects of the game. This site's review however, will tip the scale to either a purchase or a rent, maybe. It's a must play for me, but a keeper, I'll just leave that up to you. Honest reviews FTW!

0 up, 0 down

nogoat23
Monday, January 25, 2010 @ 4:13:56 PM
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I've read the love. I've read the hate. Now all that's left is for the game to come out and for me to make up my own mind.

2 up, 0 down

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Final Fantasy XIII Hate Unfounded?

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