Is FFXIII A Casualty Of Twitch-Gaming?

Over the years, I've noticed a disturbing trend: the increasing ADD-like behavior of gamers. They can't sit through a cut-scene longer than two minutes without having a nervous breakdown, they have to be mashing buttons 99% of the time, and they require the constant flashing and rapid-fire animations and cinematics throughout. I find this annoying trend hitting movies as well; the camera can't sit still for half a second and we're shifting at lightning speed between scenes. Obviously, this is a direct result of a generation that values speed of communication over substance and quality, and I think it's beginning to have a detrimental effect on games that are supposed to be deep and strategic.

Take Final Fantasy XIII, for instance. While it can easily be argued that we left turn-based behind because we now have the technology to make combat feel more "realistic and involved," I also think it's because people quite honestly can't sit still long enough, anymore. Have you noticed the almost complete termination of the RTS genre? Sure, it still exists, but the days of Command & Conquer and Age of Empires are long gone; it used to be an insanely popular genre and now, only the select hardcore play these games. Same goes for flight sims (even though they've always been few and far between) and really, many RPGs and strategy-based titles. I'm not necessarily saying the depth is gone or even less obvious...that would be inaccurate. But it seems developers want to hide it more; they want most of that to happen automatically and behind the scenes.

In FFXIII - you'll have to wait a bit for our review, as Arnold and I intend to dive in fully - we've heard the same thing time and time again: the battle is extremely fast and actually encourages you to use the Auto-Battle function. Read a few of the reviews that have already hit; you'll see what I mean. Yes, you have to make strategic decisions, but they have to be lightning fast and the existing stratagems are used automatically and manually selecting abilities is not recommended. That's just too slow. The bottom line is that it appears we're thinking a lot less during combat. Furthermore, as you really never talk to NPCs and the exploration is cut way down due to the linear progression, all we can really do is keep moving forward. In other words, the pacing is pretty damn fast; taking time to stop and smell the roses likely isn't in the cards.

Bear in mind that I'm not providing you with any personal commentary prior to our review. I'm not saying the game is good or bad. I fully expect it to be beautiful and entertaining, as all FFs have been. I'm a huge FF fan and always have been; the idea of passing on FFXIII is so foreign to me, it's not even worth mentioning. However, the distinct - and relatively abrupt - change in the style of this franchise is worrisome; the "twitch-gaming" boom that apparently wishes to leave calm, enjoyable pacing behind and continues to assault our senses at faster and faster speeds is beginning to chafe. It's one thing to have this in games that might actually benefit (action titles and shooters, for instance), but a role-playing game is something very different to me. Maybe others will feel differently, but I believe the disturbing "can't-sit-still" trend is having a profoundly negative impact on the industry.

At the same time, we still do have games like Heavy Rain, which are wonderfully mature and promote real storytelling, character development and actual thought. And it's doing well, too, so that's great. But shouldn't FFXIII be a little closer to Heavy Rain than to God of War?

3/4/2010 Ben Dutka

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Comments (198 posts)

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Highlander
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:04:20 PM
Reply

Thoughtful editorial, I await the review with interest. I agree wholeheartedly about this twitch-gaming boom and for me it's a bust. I understand that technology moves on and so on and so forth. However, markets segment as they grow in size, so what's wrong with the game market segmenting? Consider that if the total gaming market consisted of 30 million gamers at one point. Perhaps a third of them were RPG fans. Now 15-20 years later, with 120 million gamers, at very least those 10 million RPG fans still exist, but as a much smaller proportion of the total market.

And yet game makers like SE look at the 120 million gamers as one market and assume (falsely) that they should be able to capture the same proportion of that market as they did before. When their traditional games do not in fact capture more users but the same old audience they start to change things up to meet the needs of all those new gamers. Slowly but surely they get close to a tipping point where the cumulative change to their formula is sufficient to alienate their existing audience, but not necessarily enough to grab the new audience.

So, why do it? Why not make games for the existing audience and make different games for the new audience? Instead of expanding their audience they are shrinking it. Right now it's the so called twitch-gamers vs more traditional hardcore gamers - the gray beards.

I think SE's biggest mistake (and it's one that many game makers are making) is failing to see the new market as an emerging market and the old market as a stable market. They missed the segmentation and are trying to cater to the whole as if it were one homogeneous mass of gamers. Which of course it is not. The sooner this lesson is learned, the better.

BTW, I noticed that you used the word linear...tsk, tsk... ;)

Last edited by Highlander on 3/4/2010 10:13:40 PM

38 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:39:20 PM

Wow, good read. You wrote a bit of an editorial of your own!

17 up, 1 down

rogers71
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:10:56 PM

Educational as always Highlander. Great post!

10 up, 1 down

Natalisrubbish
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:23:49 PM

HEAR HEAR HIGHLANDER!

4 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:43:29 PM

This dude right here is our best poster. :)

And that says something, because we have a lot of them.

15 up, 1 down

Natalisrubbish
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:57:20 AM

@ Ben
Without a doubt Highlander is the best poster, so much thought and detail not to mention very fair.

4 up, 1 down

Highlander
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:00:02 AM

Y'all are making me blush!

9 up, 1 down

Banky A
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:04:41 AM

Awww that's cute Ben.
Highlander, you better not be modest. You're a legend.

2 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:10:39 AM

I doff my cap to you sir, well played.

4 up, 1 down

FullmetalX10
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:43:39 AM

yeah highlander, it's no wonder you have a lot of fans(including me) on PSXE, your comments are always fun to read and educational. Carry on, plz.

3 up, 0 down

Dante399
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 3:08:37 AM

Totally agree!!!!

2 up, 0 down

www
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 5:47:21 AM

Hey Highlander stole my fans ;)

7 up, 2 down

Cavan
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:02:20 AM

have no fear, civ 5 was annoucned for the autumn, turn based strategy at its greatest, what more do you want? lol

3 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:25:41 AM

I call bullshit.

Highlander for informing the public, me for the entertainment.

10 up, 2 down

OtisFeelgood
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:26:57 AM

lol @ LV

3 up, 1 down

D1g1tal5torm
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 8:12:47 AM

Good comment, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say..

looking at it from SE's point of view, the marginalised customer base they already have wasnt meeting it's targets in terms of forecasted growth.

It's not enough these days for a company to just stay in business.

So logically, what would you do?

You look at gaming trends, evolution if you prefer, and your current market exposure. You identify that making alterations to the gameplay may lure additional users, whilst still retaining your existing market.

How many of you FF fans really aren't going to buy this latest version?

And secondly you increase market exposure by going multiplatform.

It's a case of simple economics.

More sales = More Capital

Gamers never come first; they're going to only go down the pecking order in the future.

Last edited by D1g1tal5torm on 3/5/2010 8:19:43 AM

3 up, 2 down

Silent_J
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:43:37 AM

Nice going Highlander,very informative little piece you got there.Maybe Ben and Arnold should let you write some editorials for PSXE.

@LV
you are truly the entertainer because you always crack me up lol

Last edited by Silent_J on 3/5/2010 9:50:13 AM

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:55:14 AM

LOL!

@all

A man has to know his limitations, and I know mine. A commenter I am, and a commenter I shall be.

@D1g1tal5torm

Good counterpoint. In reply I'll just say that the point I am making is that SE and many other devs cannot serve both communities with the same product. I disagree about a part of the customer base being marginalized, that logic would mean that market segmentation never occurs and all that does happen is that non-core consumers become marginalized consumers who go un-served by the market place. That's a lot of dollars to leave on the table if that's the way people operate.

Game developers need to pay attention to the segmentation of the market. They have always had to recognize that the market did segment based on genre - fps vs racing games vs RPG. What is so hard about realizing that within a genre there is further segmentation solo fps vs multi-player fps, racing sim vs arcade racer, turn based vs real time based RPGs, and so on. As the pie get's bigger the slices become proportionately smaller. However I would rather have an eighth of a pie that weighs 4 pounds than have half of a two pound pie. I think that is the thing that some devs are utterly missing. In their drive to keep half the pie regardless of the size of the pie, they are missing the fact that a smaller fraction of the larger market is at least as lucrative as the larger fraction of a smaller market.

Last edited by Highlander on 3/5/2010 10:04:18 AM

3 up, 0 down

Bobby_Kotick
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:40:26 AM

Very well written my boy. I have a few openings at the company, would you like to come work for me?

2 up, 1 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 11:31:10 AM

Highlander is one of my favorites, too!

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 11:33:31 AM

LOL, I can't add! my math on pie slices is all off.

I was trying to say that a smaller fraction of a far larger pie was better than a larger fraction of a smaller pie. but an eighth of 4 is a half, and a half of 2 is 1, so my math is very poor. My apologies. Perhaps a better way to put it is I'd rather have 10% of 120 million customers than 30% of 30 million customers.

2 up, 0 down

piratedrunk
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:06:11 PM
Reply

I honestly don't think this was the case. I think they were going for something exciting but I don't think any twitch-kid could stay put through 10 hours of cut-scenes.

I love turn based games but I always look forward to the advances made in FF games. That said I would be stoked if the made a return to something closer to FFX some time that was not only turn based but about as fast as you could hope for if you were fast yourself.

3 up, 0 down

inkme101
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:07:08 PM
Reply

i never got into rpg's but i really want to! i just think itd be like learning how to ride a bike for the first time at the age of 80. games now a days just go to fast for me. i give most everything a rent because i crush it in like a few days time. i dunno. what would be a good easy going rpg to get me started?

1 up, 0 down

piratedrunk
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:09:57 PM

If you don't mind the graphics being dated you could always pick up FFVII on the psn. Regarded by many to be the best rpg of all time and a fantastic turn-based battle system. If that game doesn't make you an rpg fan for life I'm not sure what would.

6 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:11:03 PM

Depends on if you like jrpg or wrpg setting best. Dragon Age could be considered a nice starter wrpg. But why not just pick up FFXIII and jump right in?

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/4/2010 10:11:13 PM

5 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:23:45 PM

I agree with world - Since FF games are a complete story each new one is a brand new adventure. They have recurring themes which are nice to the loyal fans, but you won't have a problem jumping right into XIII... I might look up what a chocobo or a moogle is though. ;)

0 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:35:23 PM

And perhaps you could put some research into Cid. He's a recurring character...kind of.

4 up, 0 down

SnipeySnake
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:55:05 PM

The name is reoccurring, not the character.

2 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 5:43:26 AM

WorldEndsWithMe has a very important point: Depends on jrpg or western is your style. I love rpg's, however only western rpgs. I've tried japanese ones but they did not fetch my attrention or imagination at *all*. And as such I'd never reccomend a japanese rpg for a first time rpg'er.

Instead I'd say get either Fallout (if sci-fi/apocalyptic setting is of interest) or Oblivion (if fantasy/elves & spells are your cup of tea) if you want a RPG that's filled with loads of stories and are slow paced. In those two games you can pretty much decide the speed and intensity, and they are both good games.

0 up, 0 down

totozero18
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:42:09 AM

FF-VII, VIII, X, XI, IV,(stay away from XII) Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile, Persona, Tales of (Whichever you choose) Ar Tonelico. Golden Sun (GBA), idk, Valhalla Knights,There's lots of jrpg's to give a go to.

0 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:23:47 AM

Beamboom: Considering that most of those Western RPGs fail in the storyline/character development area - all in an effort to provide more "freedom" - they all feel more like action/adventure games to me. They also all have very similar combat mechanics, whereas at least with JRPGs, I get constantly varying systems.

Besides the Forgotten Realms RPGs, which are still just full of titles that are more like one D&D clone after another, I found all older Western RPGs intensely boring.

5 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:09:14 PM
Reply

That's the key isn't it, whether or not there is actual thought behind the strategy we use in battle. It seems from the little I have read that FFXIII is rather fast paced and in this sense it feels like a bit of pandering to the twitch crowd, which I suppose the 360 fans will like more than series loyalists. Not buying this game isn't an option of course, but I do worry about us gamers rewarding bad trends.

If too many concessions are made to the thoughtless, the automatic, and the flashy, I fear that genres will cease to exist and we will be left with one big pile of genre-less games that are all flash over substance. Nothing but sound and fury.

13 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:44:48 PM

That's exactly what I'm worried about. It's why I'm so happy to see Heavy Rain doing well. If that game had failed, I might've lost all hope...

10 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:54:46 PM

Your very right. I think most of us are so frustrated because we're hoping that somewhere there will be a turnaround back to how this genre was, but currently doesn't seem likely. I think we'll have to wait for ff 13 and versus 13 and maybe even FF14 to make a decision as to whether we can justify supporting Square-enix any longer...

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 3/4/2010 11:55:26 PM

0 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:05:17 AM

The past will never return, Shadow. That's why it became the past. However, judging from this site there is a large enough crowd who want their heavy rains and fallouts and so on.

Speaking of Heavy Rain, I got around to try the demo only yesterday, and even though I got confirmed that this game is not for me (I *hate* games where I am instructed what buttons to press, I feel like a monkey!) I'll buy this one just to support the uniqueness of Heavy Rain. It deserves every bit of support it can get, I realized that after the demo.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:16:37 PM

"The past isn't dead, it isn't even past"

-William Faulkner

3 up, 0 down

LittleBigMidget
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:11:17 PM
Reply

Stupid MS and their DVDs. I'm convinced that anyone still buying the game is denial. F*** MS and F*** Sqaure Enix

12 up, 8 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 8:27:47 PM

If you say you can remember the 60 & 70's, then....you certainly weren't there!!!!
~ My "Free Love" Generation ~

The future's over-rated
~ The Saint ~

0 up, 0 down

inkme101
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:14:41 PM
Reply

i remember watching my buddies play ffvii on ps1 back in the day. i wasnt into playing it but i loved watching it. the first time i saw the leviathon i remember thinking "wow look at these graphics, no way it gets better looking than this!" lol but what the hell did i know? it was the 90's i was prolly high!!! lolololol

10 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:36:40 PM

I essentially became a gamer because I watched my older brother play Diablo II and FFX.

3 up, 0 down

Natalisrubbish
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:54:28 AM

Haha epic post "it was the 90's I was prolly high!" That was great.

2 up, 0 down

totozero18
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:52:33 AM

Same here I used to watch a friend of mine play FF-VII, he could never defeat sephiroth thou. (Every character was a lvl-99)

Last edited by totozero18 on 3/5/2010 6:53:55 AM

2 up, 0 down

natho86
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:16:53 PM
Reply

I miss old school RPG games.

9 up, 0 down

Roach721
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:41:23 AM

Also RTS.

2 up, 0 down

Riku994
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:19:15 PM
Reply

"lightning fast" And her name is Lightning... I get it... On a related note, PTOM gave this game 5/5 stars.

3 up, 0 down

SnipeySnake
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:22:09 PM

PTOM?

Edit: Oh playstation magazine

Last edited by SnipeySnake on 3/4/2010 10:22:36 PM

2 up, 0 down

piratedrunk
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:24:22 PM

And Gamesradar gave it 10/10.

So stoked for this.

1 up, 0 down

SnipeySnake
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:35:20 PM

Though i dont really like gamesradar, i actually like there ff13 review, the random pictures are pretty funny too.

2 up, 0 down

darxed
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:36:36 PM

Yeah, good reviews are finally seeing the ligth... I really can't wait to play this!

Last edited by darxed on 3/4/2010 10:36:51 PM

3 up, 0 down

SnipeySnake
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:21:52 PM
Reply

Tuesday.....i really can't wait!!

Is it mostly like FFX?

5 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:23:47 PM

That is what the consensus seems to be among reviewers, except not properly turn based of course.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:22:46 PM
Reply

Ben,

I see just as many RTS today as before. The only difference is now there are far more FPS/TPS on the market so it seems like RTS have become fewer.

It makes sense that the majority of gamers would choose a game genre (fps/tps) that doesn't take as much time and dedication to excel at.

5 up, 0 down

Highlander
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:24:58 PM

They are there, but they release with far less frequency. There was a time when RTS games were all the rage. It wasn't just Civ and C&C, and it wasn't just strategy nuts that played them. You have a point as well, I do think that there is still activity with these games, but it clearly isn't as much as it once was.

5 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:27:59 PM

The problem with RTS is that they are really only for PC's. RTS's were my favorite genre growing up, but then I just transitioned over to consoles and had to leave the RTS behind.

Some PC loyalists say that you can't play an FPS without a keyboard and mouse...where I agree it's easier, you can quickly grasp the hang of it on the controller. However, RTS can really ONLY be done on a PC where you're able to drag and drop with multiple mouse clicks and hotkeys.

So I don't really think twitch-gamers hurt the RTS, I think the consoles did.

Also, command and conquer is just weird with all the live action stuff....

3 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:28:39 PM

My lunch table is full of RTS gamers. Honestly it's kind of hard to talk to them because that's the only genre they'll talk about. "Have you guys played Generals? It is so boss dwaaaam!" they say.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:48:27 PM

Limited: RTS sales are nowhere near what they once were, and you know it. The release of a new RTS was a huge deal when I was working at EB way back in the late '90s. Now, as I said in the article, only a very select few still play them.

RTS games would also be in the running for many GotY awards and nominations in any given year back then. That hasn't happened in God knows how long. They just don't have much of a place, anymore.

1 up, 0 down

Roach721
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:50:32 AM

Totally agree with you Ben,and it's a real shame. I think i almost like RTS more than RPG's.Back in the 90's RTS games were the whole reason for me buying a damn expensive gaming computer.Not only that but games such as Sim-Ant,Zoo tycoon and simulations are a thing of the past. What is this world coming too???

0 up, 0 down

Geobaldi
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:49:41 AM

The Company of Heroes series was fantastic and it won a number of GotY awards in '06. Of course strictly console gamers missed out on that terrific franchise. Also great were the Star Wars: Empire and War series. Age of Empires was great until AoE 3 came out. Just wait until Starcraft 2 releases later this year. That one is going to generate some serious sales. The first Starcraft is still the most heavily played game in Korea to this day. C&C 4 is pretty good too. I've been in the beta for that one for the past two weeks. So is Supreme Commander 2. Those are just three that are coming out this year. And the new Dawn of War 2 expansion hits next week also. I agree they aren't quite as prevalent as they used to be, but for the most part they are a lot better now than they used to be. But current times see a majority of the gaming community aiming at the shooters as it were. I am looking forward to Civilization V since it has been announced. And Facebook has Civilization coming to it also in June. The RTS crowd may have thinned over the years but by no means has the genre become stagnant.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:45:40 PM

Roach when haven't you "totally" agreed with Ben. Do you happen to have any opinions not based around attempting to pleasure ole Benny?

Ben,

My RTS kick has not diminished, you're right they no longer get the spotlight they once had but I just see it as a sign of videogames expanding to attract the majority. I still see the RTS genre alive and well. It's certainly going stronger than the JRPG business. ::frown::

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 3/5/2010 2:49:44 PM

0 up, 2 down

Highlander
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 3:40:32 PM

@sven

My PS3 has a keyboard and mouse combo thanks to logitech and bluetooth keyboard products. They aren't expensive, and I believe that the PS3 will happily take a USB keyboard and mouse (as did the PS2). So there is no reason why an RTS game on the PS3 should not support the standard keyboard/mouse controls.

2 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:57:17 PM

Highlander - I don't know if you'll read this....but I have a bluetooth keyboard and mouse too that hooks up to the PS3, which is great for the internet. But at this point, can it even be used for any games? I agree that it's possible, and I think it SHOULD be done. But it hasn't up to this point.

But I will wait till that day and then be VERY happy.

2 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:26:38 PM
Reply

Two words b*tches: Valkyria Chronicles.

7 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:30:47 PM

Two words: F*ck. Yeah.

I cried three time in that game: twice from sadness and once from overwhelming joy.

4 up, 0 down

Geobaldi
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:51:00 AM

That game deserves so many more sales then it has though :(

Last edited by Geobaldi on 3/5/2010 1:51:19 AM

4 up, 0 down

OtisFeelgood
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:38:44 AM

I bought that game and still haven't played it yet. So many good games out right now. >_<

1 up, 1 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:33:24 PM
Reply

The great thing about the God of War series is that you can twitch your way through the game if you want to, but the real enjoyment comes from mastering the combat system. The Challenge of the Gods/Titans taught me that.

4 up, 1 down

Jed
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:55:49 PM

The challenge of the Gods taught me exactly how hard you have to throw a PS2 controller to have it shatter into a thousand pieces.

13 up, 0 down

rogers71
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:13:04 PM

Here Here....I blew out my shoulder while finding out the compression ratio of a PS2 controller.

6 up, 0 down

geovanwitdakick
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:35:59 PM
Reply

Only being fair here, VideoGamer as well as PSM3 Magazine UK have given it 70's...

2 up, 1 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:37:15 PM

You negative nancy!

4 up, 0 down

geovanwitdakick
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:39:54 PM
Reply

It may be considered negative, your right. But I prefer the term "stating the facts".

2 up, 1 down

Snicket
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:41:14 PM
Reply

News flash!

FFXIII is getting great scores!! Oh No! I don't remember a game this gen that has gotten more flack pre-launch. Give credit to SE for completly re-inventing its game play with every new entry into the series. I notice that some FF fans are alot like Star Trek fans, they hate change. Even if the change is for the better.

5 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:47:14 PM

mmm, while I fully expect to enjoy the game, removing good elements from a series could certainly be argued as bad change.

1 up, 0 down

SnipeySnake
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:50:37 PM

How about removing a good element, then replacing it with a even better one?

2 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:46:39 PM

Great scores for a Final Fantasy are in the mid-to-high 9s. Not low-to-mid 8s, and that's what it's getting so far.

I don't want the game to suck and I don't think it will. This isn't "flak," this is more of a general commentary.

3 up, 0 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 5:58:25 AM

its gotten at least 6 scores higher than 90 and to be honest im sure it will get more

0 up, 0 down

Snicket
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:21:31 AM

@Ben

I was not saying that this article was giving flack, just the commentary in general that is floating out there on the internerts.

Some scores for FFXIII so far:
Lost Gamer: 9/10
EuroGamer: 8/10
Computer and Videogames: 9.2
Games Radar: 10/10

There was also a very praise worthy review in OPM.

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:06:56 AM

Newsflash!

As a Trek fan I find the new movie shallow, pointless and crass.

1 up, 3 down

Snicket
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:35:51 AM

Yeah that's how I pretty much feel about all Trek movies.

3 up, 1 down

Scarecrow
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:43:47 PM
Reply

I blame FPSs

1 up, 1 down

rogers71
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:55:58 PM

You could take that one step further and not only say FPS's are to blame but the advent of Broadband internet and Online Multiplayer is as much a creator of the 'twitch gamer' as anything. 2 words.....Instant Gratification

8 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:05:22 PM

I agree

3 up, 0 down

Geobaldi
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:53:57 AM

Broadband internet and Online Multiplayer FPS's.

1 up, 0 down

kokoro
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:31:43 AM

I blame the superficiality of modern "civilised" culture.

4 up, 0 down

Qubex
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:10:23 AM

Kokoro... are you sure we really live in a modern civilised culture? ...sometimes when I look around I really do wonder.

Q!

"speak to the droid"

Last edited by Qubex on 3/5/2010 10:10:52 AM

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:18:10 AM

Instant gratification and entitlement society. Blech!

One of the worst gaming moments of this generation occurred when Burnout Paradise went the way of the entitlement generation. The plan was that there would be in-game competitions and you could win special cars or skins by competing in events. As a foretaste the boys at Criterion were running a few events and decided to let their community leaders test drive one of the prize cars early. Sadly the reaction of entitlement minded gamers was so intensely negative to this single test, that they decided to scrap the whole thing and gave the car to everyone. Yes, they scrapped all the planned events, everything. All the work that had been done on event planning and software modification to drive the planned events was scrapped. Thank you entitlement gamers.

Entitlement gamers are the ones who can't stand the idea that a game might have locked content that you unlock through play. They are the ones that demand instant and easy access to everything right away. So heaven forbid that the 'ultimate' sword is in the game but only available if you play a particular way on a particular setting and get things just right. The entitlement gamer with their instant gratification problem will demand that the ultimate sword be made available immediately with no effort required.

7 up, 0 down

main_event05
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:59:12 PM

As always, I have my fingers pointed at Microsoft.

Just look at what they are doing to Metal Gear.

2 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 10:57:20 PM
Reply

IGN can't review FFXIII because apparently no one in the entire building owned a PS3 Slim :P

7 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:04:46 PM

I wouldn't expect any less

Now it's Gamespot's turn to wow us

4 up, 0 down

Highlander
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:05:57 PM

A one day outage is enough to stop them? Wusses!

7 up, 0 down

Alienange
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:00:17 PM
Reply

It is definitely a disturbing trend. I love a good fps, but most of my fondest gaming moments were had while playing an rpg. To take away depth and strategy in order to cater to a "twitch" crowd is akin to dumbing down games to cater to motion controls. Devs have gotta know that there are many gamers who like to think while they play.

6 up, 0 down

rogers71
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:07:33 PM

You are gonna blow peoples mind when you create a sentence that has the words 'think' and 'play' used in conjunction with each other.

Can't believe I am saying it but, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Gamers these days just do not know what it is like to sit down with a game and have to actually think their way through it. I blame the creation of strategy (walkthrough) guides. Ever since those became prominent, gamers don't do anything for themselves.

2 up, 0 down

Alienange
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:21:20 PM

We're all here because gaming is a passion of ours. We're never going to agree all the time, but there's never any hate.

Believe it.

8 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:41:37 PM

Dattebayo!

1 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:05:23 AM

I agree as well. Heck with this generation. Even when we were playing sonic and mario, the farther you got the more thinking you had to do and we all turned out fine. Okay, well most of us did. ;)

2 up, 0 down

Gordo
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:06:14 PM
Reply

Pretty tough choice. After buying Heavy Rain, I've only got enough cash for either FFXIII or GOWIII.

Was totally swayed to God of War, but that Final Fantasy does look like a pretty one and does seem to have more value for money.

Arghh, the agony of choice!

0 up, 0 down

rogers71
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:08:46 PM

You can do like me and a friend. I am gonna buy one and he is gonna buy the other. That is the cheapest way around the 2 game conundrum.

5 up, 0 down

FullmetalX10
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 3:03:59 AM

exactly rogers, me n my friend do that too, saves another 60 bucks.

0 up, 0 down

just2skillf00l
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:20:49 PM
Reply

Yeah Alienange, couldn't agree more. I don't mind a twitch every now and again, a nice quick twitch fix (QTF). However, the best experiences I've had with video games have solely been with RPG's. Heck, I can go as far to say that the reason I bought a PS3 in the first place way back when was specifically for FF13. Just imagine you're a innocent naive kid again and you couldn't wait for Christmas. You were anxious for the presents but catching Santa Claus in the living room was at the top of your list. It's midnight, you go into the living room and see your father dressed up in Santa's costume devouring cookies and kissing on mommy. This is exactly how I feel about FF13...utterly disgusted...and let down.

4 up, 2 down

Alienange
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:26:26 PM

Thanks for the lol.

I really hope FFXIII doesn't let you down THAT bad.

1 up, 0 down

wakkaoaka
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:21:35 PM
Reply

Im a methodical thinker most of the time and enjoy my games as such... so ffxiii's battle system seems like a bit of an uh oh... but if the story is anything like FFX i will be glad I preordered the collectors addition a month ago. I totally agree with you Ben. I reckon having quick camera movements in tv programs and movies means that they can slack off in the details of things such as fight scenes.

I love being in New Zealand, it means I get Final Fantasy XIII first :D 9am nz time tuesday

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Thursday, March 04, 2010 @ 11:29:23 PM

The quicker the camera movement and quicker the cut, the less time the viewer has to notice imperfections in eh scene, or make-up, costume, set dressing or even effects. It's a great technique for injecting pace where there is none as well, makes up for lazy writing.

7 up, 0 down

Banky A
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:07:57 AM

Hey bro', I'm in New Zealand too! FTW, I could've bought FFXIII for the Xbox 360 yesterday haha (didn't see a PS3 copy). But my neighbour is waiting for his Collector's Ed.

There you go again Highlander ;)

0 up, 0 down

Qubex
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:13:35 AM

I hope to join both of you in New Zealand, within... 2-3 years... looking to immigrate to Middle Earth and set up home in Hobbiton... by the way it's a great sheep farm, I visited the set a few years back...

Put simply, New Zealand is a spectacular country, and I cannot wait to move there :)

Q!

"speak to the droid"

Last edited by Qubex on 3/5/2010 10:14:13 AM

1 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 11:56:43 AM

FF 7 had addicting camera movements in battle. Wonder why they never brought that back for future installments? For some reason I feel like gradual decline of turn-base plays a part...

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:00:47 AM
Reply

Off topic for a sec...

PSN has put 2 new demos out(DL'ing them now)

Just Cause 2 (1439 MB)

MotoGT09 (1781 MB)

We now turn this regularly scheduled program back over to our loyal reading audience members.

3 up, 0 down

Banky A
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:09:18 AM

Thank you, our off-topic field reporter, BikerSaint.

3 up, 0 down

Ayane
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:02:00 AM
Reply

In the case of FF13, I think it has been blown a little bit out of proportion...
Admittedly the first few (early, intro) battles might make one go "crap, this is too fast wtf???, in fact I felt that way.
But that was only for a very short time, as the game progressed slightly further and the all the battle fuctions are available, the battle speed (and battles themselves) feel really well balanced and very enjoyable, a great mix of speed and strategy. You even have to option to select a slow(er) ATB.
It is rather linear as a whole, compared to previous FFs, but I love every bit of it nonetheless, and at so many points in the game, the sceneries, etc are so breathtaking I stopped to gawk at them before moving on.
I take FF13 as the first step towards an even better future FF.
That's my two cents of course.

1 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:14:18 AM

For every FF fan's sake I hope we can find something that keeps us in touch with the franchise as you did. Ultimately we can all listening to good criticism or bad criticism from people that have already played this game, read reviews and/or research ourselves. The deciding factor will come when we have FF13 in our possession and experience it 1st hand.

1 up, 0 down

Irievibes
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:03:02 AM
Reply

i kinda like having to actually DO stuff, you know? play? cuz if all im doing is hitting the x buttton at x time on x whatever, and after that all i get is a 15 min movie and then another x mashing fiesta....then im not really playing much am i?

kinda like having some automation but sounds a lil "too" automatic form me, dunno guess il wait for your reviews

i guess i agree with your whole twitch gaming argument , personally , i blame the endless iteration of MW/gears clone games that are coming out this generation and m$ , has spawned a whole army of couchzombies that have the attention span of a nanosecond.

0 up, 0 down

Robochic
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:22:33 AM
Reply

I started getting into RPGS due to KH's. Unfortantly another KH maybe just a big dream for me. When it comes to final fantasy franchise i tend to watch not play. I have heard good reviews on FF13 but from the xbox side not really the PS3 side so we'll see...

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:37:56 PM

funny since the box version is confirmed as markedly crappier.

2 up, 0 down

kraygen
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:49:32 AM
Reply

I couldn't agree with you more Ben. Frankly I'm glad to hear someone say what I'm sure most of us turn-based rpg lovers have been thinking.
I remember the first time I played ffvii. Every battle I took the time to experiment. I'd ask myself, what is this creature strong against, what is he weak against? How often do I need to heal, can I wait one more round? It was all strategy and thinking things through. I'll never forget it, it was my first rpg honestly.
I remember when I purchased my ps3 and I played mgs4 the first time thinking how wonderfully in depth the story was, each cut-scene felt as if it was emerging me in what it was going on. Then I remember how shocked I felt reading players say that they couldn't stand how long the cut scenes were. How ridiculous, what's the hurry? I bought this to enjoy, and how can you say you enjoy something that you're trying to end as quickly as possible?
Personally all the news about ffxiii was worrisome to me, no towns, no mp, but the most frightening thing to me that I read was that there was an auto-battle option and that we you were encouraged to use it. What? Have we really come so far that its either mash buttons or watch the screen as the console plays the game for you, but shows you fantastic, colorful, flashy scenes to keep you occupied? Seriously?
I hope there is more to ffxiii than that, but more than anything I want to sit, to think, to enjoy, every minute of my video game.

2 up, 0 down

godsman
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:56:33 AM
Reply

Anyone saw the video comparison between Xbox and PS3 FFXIII? I didn't believe the Xbox version was significantly worse until I saw the game in motion.

1 up, 0 down

Roach721
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:59:47 AM
Reply

Whats the word on this new Civ game coming to PS3? Is it going to be more like Civ4 or Civ Revo?Know anything about it BEN?

0 up, 0 down

Geobaldi
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:59:16 AM

Haven't heard of a new Civ coming to PS3. Where did you hear this news? The only one I know is Civ 5 coming out at the end of the year on PC. And the Facebook version in June.

Last edited by Geobaldi on 3/5/2010 1:59:33 AM

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:54:05 AM

If you own a computer capable of using Office2007 I can't fathom why you'd be interested in an a civilization for the PS3.

3 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 4:34:47 AM

I guess I just assumed it would come out on the PS3.Thats a shame...
@ LVertigo My computer is from 98 am still running XP home edition. I really don't use it for gaming anymore since it can't runn much and I just put my car in the shop to get fix it will probably cost me about 2,000 bucks so aam straped for cash right now.Thats why I keep hoping Starcraft2 and Diablo3 will come out on the PS3.*I can dream right*

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 4:59:46 AM

A 12year old computer...right...what are your specs since you've said you're running XP on that 12year old computer?

They're never coming to PS3, I'll let you know how much fun I'm having with them when I buy them on Day1.

0 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 5:25:53 AM

It's actually from "03" pentium4 at 2.53ghz,512mb,128mb DDr ati Radeon9700,60 gig Hrad drive.But still the last 2 games i bought it wouldn't run them, theres room for upgrading but really the only games I'd like to play are those 2.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 5:33:42 AM

I knew it wasn't from 98 once you mentioned XP.

Well Blizzard is a lot like Valve. They design their games to run on almost every computer ever made. With those specs you'll be able to play both SC2 and Diablo3 so I suggest you try the open betas (when made available) or the demos and see for yourself.

0 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:06:34 AM
Reply

Playstation 3 Final Fantasy XIII confirmed as the better version.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-final-fantasy-xiii-face-off

I didn't notice a send in news tips option so I'm posting it here.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:22:37 AM

You can send them info and links in the "About" section. :)

0 up, 0 down

piratedrunk
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 5:04:06 PM

Also from your user control panel.

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:23:47 AM
Reply

I don't mind cut scenes. That's why i play Final Fantasy. My bots complain about MGS4 cut scenes. Ha! Like its a surprise. MGS has always had long cut scenes.

I agree to an extent that FPS's are what helped move the industry in this direction. When i saw the headline i immediately thought of what FFXIII's director said about FPS influence the how they told FFXIII's story. Namely the genre's fast paste story telling. A succession dramatic or plot filling events.

Blagh!

1 up, 0 down

Geobaldi
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:01:39 AM

I don't mind cutscenes either. I remember Xenosaga catching so much flak due to the length of it's cutscenes. But I really enjoyed all of those. They really drew you into the story in my opinion. And one of the better RPG stories to come round in a while.

Last edited by Geobaldi on 3/5/2010 2:01:50 AM

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:08:30 AM

haha i said "fast paste"..oh wth.

Geobaldi, i never played Xenosaga, but i agree. Cut scenes are fine by me if they aren't boring which Final Fantasy's have never been.

2 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:13:49 AM

"mind" cut scenes? Back in the day they were the highlight of a PS1 FF!

3 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:40:11 AM

We've all become just a little spoiled with what some devs are doing with their in game engine this gen. *cough*gow3*cough*uncharted2*cough*

Ha.

3 up, 1 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:03:17 AM

there were cutscenes, then there were xenosaga cutscenes, wayyyy too much of them and they were long and boring

0 up, 4 down

SmokeyPSD
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:30:54 AM
Reply

I think ur smack on with this article. I'd go even further, I think FFXIII is a casualty of the mainstream gamer as a whole.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:43:34 AM

At least Square didn't completely hold back because of the 360.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-final-fantasy-xiii-face-off?page=1

:)

1 up, 0 down

OriginalSin
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:56:26 AM
Reply

I will wait for the full review on PSX to see what Ben and Arnold have to say.

I will get FFXIII either way. Just want to get a better idea of all the "good" and "bad" sides of this new direction FF is going in. Then I will give it a go and see if I enjoy playing it.

In the end it's about how much fun YOU have playing a game and not what someone else thinks. But having a good guide (review) to let you know the technical side of things are great...

4 up, 0 down

FullmetalX10
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 3:15:29 AM
Reply

We'll see how it turns out, I too will be anticipating the review, too me it's already a bit of a relief that the ps3 version is better.

0 up, 0 down

Ergi
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 5:10:41 AM
Reply

I'm really looking forward to this review. I remember how hyped i once was for this final fantasy. Now i'm not exactly jumping up and down, though i do consider it a must play. I feel like i owe it to myself to buy this asap. But with GOW3 and heavy rain also out there, who knows. I sincerely miss turn based gameplay. The industry does seem to be abandoning it and moving in that direction, all fast an twitchy.

0 up, 0 down

www
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 5:52:29 AM
Reply

Well it sucks that its fast-paced now, but things change, times change, all we can do is adjust and get along or used to it.

Anyway FFXIII on PS3 has been confirmed as the better version by a mile.

0 up, 0 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:06:15 AM
Reply

i think people expected the second coming of god with this title and what we got instead is a damn good rpg, no game of the century but still great.

This game may just be the most hated on game before its release by fanboys, i hope its treated fairly in reviews

1 up, 4 down

LimitedVertigo
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:31:40 AM

The 2nd coming is six feet under with a corncob in his mouth.

2 up, 6 down

SmokeyPSD
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:35:35 AM

an rpg, with wallpapered straight lines of dungeons. the arguments are sincere and founded Aaron, I'm not purchasing XIII because in this case, the absolutely magical CG cutscenes can not distract me from the glaring flaws in the gameplay and what should be in a final fantasy title in the RPG genre.

5 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 6:55:59 AM

FFXIII sounds like FFX with a few more CGI scenes, I don't see the problem. Honestly, all you FFX lovers, I'd love for you to explain where your hate for FFXIII comes from.

3 up, 1 down

Irievibes
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:16:53 AM

@LV

there is ACTUAL stuff to do in FFX
i dont care if you hate blitzball and the chocobo races, the monster arena, it all gave you STUFF TO DO

what im not liking about what ive heard about this new FF, is that its simply fights, A cgi marathon, and the story, no towns, no exploration , no sidequests minigames, or all that stuff that i actually liked about final fantasy's , still waiting for the reviews though, but i dont want a "pretty story with pretty cgi's and pretty music" ...im paying for a game not an overdone failure within movie.....

2 up, 1 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:52:24 AM

smokey, last i checked the flaws weren't located in the gameplay ( been said to have one of the better battle systems out there for a jrpg ) so im not seeing where you are going with that

1 up, 0 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 11:37:45 AM

I think Square Enix had difficulty enough fitting all the cgi on multiple dvd9 discs as it is, for the 360. Therefore, they had to make the game linear, because further fitting an open world across those discs (which would require disc swapping or install) would have made the port impossible. So what did they do? They made the game somewhat open-world-like towards the end, on the last disc.

Naturally, many ps3 owners are disappointed, but I still think it will sell considerable across both platforms.

Last edited by Shams on 3/5/2010 11:38:23 AM

1 up, 1 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 11:47:30 AM

And guys, can I make a humble request? Although I'm not a Christian, I am a Muslim (not a terrorist), and do believe in Jesus (not as being God but as divinely sent Messenger). So I rather not hear about religion, faith, or whatever, than to hear it get abused. Do you think we can come to some kind of agreement? I know Ben has banned it from the forums or everywhere, so I figured i'd just leave my request and reminder here.

Last edited by Shams on 3/5/2010 11:54:26 AM

3 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:20:01 PM

We try to keep all religion out of PSXE entirely. I can't promise we get everything, but we do try.

4 up, 0 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:59:34 PM

Thank you, Ben. And believe me, I wasn't doubting that. I was just asking a few unnamed well-loved members here, who happen to be notorious for it. I understand Psxextreme is a community for everyone, which is why a mutually understood protocol should be abided by to ensure respect and healthy conversation for everybody. Hey, I know not to take myself too seriously, and I can appreciate humor, and I can excuse or tolerate disregard to a healthy level, but after a while certain slips just become old, and hard to ignore as anything but inflammatory.

Just as many people can get understandably annoyed when people talk smack or trash about this console, or that game, I'm sure it can be easily understood that people can get the feeling of being unwelcomed, or even disrespected, when matters even more important are insulted. Not just out of self-amusement, but out of hate. So again, just a humble request and a friendly reminder.

Last edited by Shams on 3/5/2010 1:00:49 PM

3 up, 2 down

aaronisbla
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:37:15 PM

perhaps i shouldn't have mentioned it the way i did, i think "best thing sinced sliced bread" would have sufficed, because im the same way as you sham, there are things i believe in that i would rather not see brought up when i talk about video games lol

5 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:38:39 PM

^

lulz

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:48:40 PM

@ Shams

I worship JRPGs and your bashing of them as of late has offended me greatly. I'd appreciate it if you showed my faith the same respect you're suggesting I show yours.

Thank You

5 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:36:45 PM

i am deeply offended by your thin skin and how eager you are to accuse people of "hate" who don't agree with you or see things your way. Your trying to silence speech you dislike.

Shams, im happy to talk about games all day long on this site even with you. i agree with you, Ben and everyone else that this isn't the place for religious discussion but you should try and lighten up a bit. if you don't like it, ignore it.

Last edited by Jawknee on 3/5/2010 7:42:20 PM

4 up, 2 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:44:21 PM

You tell'em, Jawknee ;)

0 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:52:00 PM

I was talking to you my friend. :) don't let what we think bother you. People everyday say things that are offensive. It's up to you how you let that affect you. No hard feelings.

4 up, 0 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 8:06:56 PM

Yes, Jawknee, I did understand that.

And believe me, I'm all for discussion. But, talking trash, and friendly intellectual discourse are two entirely different things, based on two entirely different intentions. Some are unable, or rather, unwilling to make the distinction, which is why Ben thought it necessary to close down a certain forum for good, and forbid it for good.

I'm sure you understand. Isn't it why you refused to answer a certain question I had asked you?

0 up, 2 down

tes37
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 8:30:03 PM

Lol

Shams, you should lighten up. This place is big enough for us all. I believe in God, but I don't believe it is productive to get offended over someone else's opinion or jokes for that matter. LV made a joke and you brought religion into it by showing offense to it.

2 up, 0 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:29:37 PM

Nah, Tes. LV wasn't just telling a joke, as I'm sure he will agree. He wasn't just telling you what he 'believes'. He was rediculing a belief. But I wasn't just talking about that comment, in particular, and I'm sure your memory isn't that short.

When your ancestor, or loved one, is falsely called a pedophile, and that you are a supporter for terrorism, or an apologist for it, perhaps you can take that lightly. But, I doubt it, especially if it continues to no end. You would complain at first, then probably ignore it as well as the person for as long as he continues that 'humor'.

So, if you tell me to lighten up, please pardon me for taking that advice as a little disingenuous.

Last edited by Shams on 3/5/2010 9:34:55 PM

0 up, 2 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:31:22 PM

Oh, I forgot to add, "lol".

0 up, 2 down

tes37
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:54:25 PM

Take your eyes and your mind off of his words if they offend you. You only do yourself an injustice when you let something as meaningless as this bother you.

2 up, 0 down

Shams
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 11:21:10 PM

OK people. You have made it clear that my request was unreasonable.

And once again, Tes, thanks for the advice. I tell myself that QUITE often.

1 up, 1 down

Shams
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 2:38:49 AM

Oh, and just for you, Jawknee boy, I should probably clarify that I was being sarcastic in my last comment.

And LV, uh, formulaic response was only expected from you, so my response was in the comment you were responding to.

I'm glad to see the people who were 'unnamed' identified themselves by responding to the request, even if they entirely ignored it.

0 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 4:33:07 AM

Shams,

Are you going to stop bashing JRPGs or not? I'm tired of your hurtful comments regarding my beliefs.

0 up, 0 down

Roach721
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 4:38:40 AM

You actually have beliefs.lol could've fooled me.

4 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 4:56:32 AM

Typical ignorant assumption. You assume that a person lacking a spiritual mindset must lack beliefs. I believe your comments hold zero credibility. There's one belief for you.

2 up, 2 down

Roach721
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 5:16:51 AM

Lol,hahaha ah poor baby.Are your fellings hurt?

2 up, 5 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 5:37:40 AM

Of course not. My correcting your ignorance is not a sign of my feelings being hurt. Another ignorant assumption on your part.

I've noticed this has become a trend with your posts as of late. The internet is great when it comes to commenting. You have plenty of time to think about what you're going to type. I suggest you use this time more wisely in the future.

5 up, 1 down

Shams
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 1:09:59 PM

Besides the little spat that occurred during Christmas of last year, when and where did I 'bash' anything regarding JRPG's, or what your likings are, what you hold dear, or what you believe in? Please, inform me.

See, LV, unlike some, I don't feel the need to bash or ridicule someone else's personal beliefs in order to validate my own, or under the guise of 'entertainment'. No. But as you can very well understand, if some one else does, I won't always keep quiet.

Are my feelings hurt? Well, yes, I am disappointed, LV. I gave you simple request. And rather than saying, "Fair enough, Shams/Aftab, I acknowledge your request, and I as an adult will stop leaving deliberately inflammatory remarks, especially regarding certain things that you promise not to bring up, and that have been banned from discussion anywhere on this site", you, instead, chose to further ridicule that request.

0 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 1:57:36 PM

Shams,

My original comments and all my comments on this thread have had ZERO to do with your faith or your god. My original comment regarding corncobs and depths of 6feet was a joke, an obvious one too. You're the type of person that tries to find offense at anything and everything.

I make a generalized joke about the "2nd coming" which could very well have been in regards to Keanu Reeves character from the Matrix and you jump on it and spam this thread with your typical "me me me, my faith is being ridiculed".

It's not about you, never has been stop trying to play the victim, it's annoying as hell and the last time you pulled this crap you got banned for a week.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 3/6/2010 1:58:47 PM

5 up, 1 down

Shams
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 3:58:25 PM

Of course, it is not just about me. It's about you. It's about everyone. It's about mutual respect that promotes healthy atmosphere. And ridiculing (or 'joking' as you put it) about other people's beliefs, which is off-topic and banned, there by not allowing others to defend themselves, does not promote that. More over, it is cowardly act.

I know whistle-blowing is 'annoying'. I don't enjoy doing it either, which is why I made the request for an agreement: You stop, and so will I. Simple. But apparently, you take it as an infringement of your right to be clown. So, then never mind. Carry on.

2 up, 3 down

Shams
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 4:14:03 PM

And for the future, please, don't bullsh*t me. Maybe you figure with your dissembling you can at least fool some hypothetical audience who could possibly be interested enough in this annoying thread, but you can't fool me.

Goodbye.

0 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 4:19:52 PM

I didn't joke about anyone's beliefs. You're attempting to make a big deal out of nothing. I can't be more clear about it, if you're going to choose to be narrow minded and act like a big baby than so be it.

You took a comment made by me which was completely unrelated to religion and have flooded this thread with your typical outpouring for religious tolerance.

If you can't even handle some random comments on a videogame site I suggest you move to Antarctica.

2 up, 2 down

Shams
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 5:52:58 PM

Your commentary is anything but random, and won't be missed anymore than my whistle-blowing. Off-topic, yes. Random, no.

But, ha, I like the Antarctic joke. I get it, where there's no internet. See, your funny (sometimes), which is the only reason I can think of why Ben & Arnold keep you around.

1 up, 3 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 8:01:43 PM

I thought you said goodbye. As ALWAYS you keep coming back for more.

I wasn't joking about Antarctica. I strongly suggest you move there so you can live in perfect harmony with nothing but yourself since you've proven anything else is intolerable.

I imagine they keep me around like quite a few others because I offer an interesting discussion on videogames. Seems you're far more interested in continuously hijacking threads for your own social/religious agenda.

So are you going to finally mean that goodbye or should I expect yet another reply from you showcasing your strong lack of ability when it comes to GETTING THE POINT.

3 up, 1 down

Shams
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 11:44:37 PM

For a guy who insults everything under the sun, you take yourself WAY too seriously.

1 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Saturday, March 06, 2010 @ 11:57:04 PM

For a guy that said goodbye hours ago you're still here whining.

Oh and just a heads up, there is no correlation between insulting and seriousness. Don't worry, given your comment history on here I would never have assumed you'd know this.

0 up, 1 down

Shams
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 12:32:24 AM

Sure, LV. Whatever floats your boat.

0 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 12:36:31 AM

Reality and Logic for me.

Your boat,(a rather small one I might add) seems to barely stay afloat on restrictions and wishful thinking.

2 up, 2 down

Shams
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 12:52:22 AM

Now, that's what I'd call a little wishful thinking on your part. But it's a good wish, nonetheless.

0 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 1:12:02 AM

Since you've given up attempting to come across as intelligent a long time ago I'm going to actually do what you said you'd do but never did.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 3/7/2010 1:12:49 AM

2 up, 1 down

Irievibes
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 10:57:07 AM

shams , i think you need to find a hobby or something

seriously, the guy said " the second coming of god" as a joke as a way to say that people's expectations with this game were a wee bit too high, yet you seem to think that anything containing the word "god" in it its automatically challenging your religious views and beliefs..

please, if you need validation for your faith or beliefs , then thats cool, but you cant expect other people to be so ...shall we say, uptight? ....about it like you are...

your beliefs are your beliefs and i will respect them, but please, stop acting like a spoiled brat craving for attention, those comments had NOTHING to do with YOUR,OR ANYONE ELSE'S religion, stop trying to act all important and hurt, no one cares if you worship god, alah , or circus monkeys, i personally couldnt care less, no one took a crack at your religion, jsut you seem to act like we did....

w/e your request is NOT unreasonable, but you exploded as if people were openly insulting your religion and/or God , you sir, need to CHILL!

3 up, 0 down

Shams
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 11:32:23 AM

You're a little late to the 'party', and have evidently missed the past few months of hate-spamming that I'm actually referring to, so I'm not gonna blame you.

1 up, 2 down

JackC8
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:52:59 AM
Reply

On a side note, the only television advertisement I've seen for this game would lead the average viewer to think that it's only available on the Xbox 360. Hey, good job with that Sony!

2 up, 1 down

Scarecrow
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:26:53 PM

Sony knows this is an average game

They're rather be advertising a masterpiece like GOWIII

2 up, 3 down

Buckeyestar
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:53:20 AM
Reply

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who has seen "twitch" gaming taking over. I've felt that way for some time, and the Xbox has made things worse by catering to these players. That's why I can't get people to try Heavy Rain or Uncharted 2. One guy actually told me he was bored by Uncharted because he had to jump and climb around. Apparently the average male gamer in the U.S. only cares about constant killing, which is why so many of them got hung up on MW2. I will give some of my coworkers a bit of credit, a couple of them have moved on to MAG now. Though they both seem to think Killzone 2 sucks. But mostly all they care about is online shooters, they actually feel that any game without online multiplayer is not worth their time.

0 up, 0 down

www
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:54:54 AM
Reply

Haha Edge gave FFXIII a 5, bloody nutters!

2 up, 0 down

Bobby_Kotick
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:28:49 AM
Reply

I love twitch gaming. It sells well.

2 up, 5 down

coverton341
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 2:03:47 PM

I gave you a thumbs up because you're Bobby Kotick and well hell if I don't do it you'll never get one. Now go back to destroying good franchises.

BTW are you and Wada somehow related?

3 up, 0 down

CH1N00K
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:00:22 PM
Reply

I couldn't stayed focused long enough to read all of this. Anyone want to paraphrase?

I'm Kidding!

The way things are going, soon all you'll have to do is go to a store, slap down your money for a game, take it home, open the case and you'll see a note that says:

"Congratulations, Achievement unlocked, you've beat the game 100%. Thank you for your money, you A.D.D riddled monkey."

I guess we should have seen this coming though. What do you expect from an entire generation raised with the concept of "We want it all and we want it now? Screw the costs!"

That's the reason when you go and buy an EA game on release day, you can get home and download all the unlockables. I mean really, who wants to actually play the game? Who wants the challenge of having to start out at the bottom and work your way up? That's ridiculous, that's like life or something!

Myself? I'm going to look into investing in Ridalin, Athritis medication and Carpal Tunnel. Because in 15 years or so when I'm looking to retire, all the ADD affected button masher are going to make me rich!

I just wish there was a way I could invest some money and get rich now....does EA have a download for that?

Last edited by CH1N00K on 3/5/2010 12:02:49 PM

8 up, 0 down

main_event05
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 12:53:06 PM
Reply

Ben, you owe me a quarter for the ADD comment.
or I'll just settle for that Blue PS3. XD

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 1:38:15 PM

Good luck, no such thing exists.

3 up, 0 down

main_event05
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 5:12:49 PM

lol, i know.
Also Ben, keep your quarter, I feel like I should be paying you for guys for this great site.

3 up, 0 down

nogoat23
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 4:00:16 PM
Reply

As well as being interested in your review, I think it would be interesting to see rebuttals on a few of the other reviews that are already out there.

0 up, 0 down

Oyashiro
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 4:27:23 PM
Reply

Seeing as how they already said that FPSs where an influence I would say, Yeah.

On another note, Why are so many news site not covering the story of the 360 version leak over the internet?

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 4:54:58 PM

they might as well remove the copy protection that eats up half the DVD, it's freakin useless.

2 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 7:26:54 PM
Reply

Has anyone seen the latest FF 13 advertisement? F**king ridiculous. If anything why wouldn't Square enix just advertise it as a multiplat game? I think Microsoft is getting anxious because they're starting to see that its getting harder to keep there promise to Square enix of having more FF13 games sold on the xbox 360 than on the Playstation 3.

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 3/5/2010 7:27:43 PM

0 up, 0 down

tes37
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 9:02:31 PM
Reply

I pre-ordered FFXIII, then canceled it, and then pre-ordered it again. Amazon loves it when I do that, so I may fix em' up in a month or so with another fit of uncertainty.

I'm going to give SE a chance and I hope they don't disappoint.

Last edited by tes37 on 3/5/2010 9:05:17 PM

0 up, 0 down

sirbob6
Friday, March 05, 2010 @ 10:28:49 PM
Reply

X-play just gave the 360 version a 4/5

0 up, 0 down

just2skillf00l
Sunday, March 07, 2010 @ 5:05:50 PM
Reply

Yeah, what's up with these mixed FF13 reviews. Perfect scores from some sites, then atrociously low scores from other sites. Maybe the twitchers gave this game a perfect score because there is no way in h*** this game would get a perfect score from a FF franchise lover. I am in complete awe at this entire FF13 situation.

All I know is that I pre-ordered GOW3 and I'm getting Resonance of Fate because so far, the only negative thing people have pointed out about the game is that the gameplay is very complex and challenging. IMO, that's good news! So while all the other FF13 hopefuls purchase FF13 in a frozen state of anxiety, I'll collect my JRPG the following week with my head held high...along with GOW3 of course.

0 up, 0 down

SilverLion
Monday, March 08, 2010 @ 2:13:12 PM
Reply

Personally, from all I've heard I'm going to rent this one. I'm pretty sure I won't get it. I feel like an idiot for getting X and X Part II based on my past history with the series. I tried playing X three or four times but I just couldn't get into it. The plot was a letdown and the linearity of the story was very discouraging. To hear that XIII will be even more linear... it would be like playing Dragon Quest Swords for the Wii.

Although I'm an old-school gamer, I still love games like Dragon Age, Fallout, Oblivion. The main issues I have with the real-time aspect of these games is when the actual interface gets in the way of controlling the game. With the turn-based games of old, a small bug can remain a small irritation. In a real-time game a small bug can make a game unplayable , especially when its in the combat interface. I can't wait to see FF XIII, but I'm ready to be disappointed.

The return to a more linear interface is what concerns me the most. I always thought the point of role playing was defining your own role. Once you're hand-fed a storyline and personality (a la FF X) it becomes more like a graphical adventure with combat and leveling (like the old Quest For Glory games). The great thing about Fallout and Dragon age and other WRPGs is that you decide who you want to be: good, bad, neutral. Just like in the old paper and pencil RPGs.

The other aspect of classic RPGs that we lose with the linear gameplay is the exploration aspect that appeals to completist gamers with a touch of OCD. I want to get that whole map. I want to find that hidden area. Check out this cool easter egg!

I hear a lot of you saying that buying FF XIII is an imperative because of your tie to the series. I've gone through every FF (through IX) at least twice. I must have played through the original FF at least 5 times. Before the American versions of the "missing" FFs were ported I played the translated ROMs. Then I played them again when they were brought over by Square. But I think there was more to that series than great graphics (which the originals didn't really have). It was the world, the characters, the creatures, that you could interact with. I think the more recent forays into the FF universe have not been up to the standards set in their predecessors.

On a side-note, I think the FFX plot was a half-hearted attempt to recreate Cloud's story in FF VII. The whole "who am I" aspect seemed too familiar, even a bit contrived.

0 up, 0 down

GamerO1
Tuesday, March 09, 2010 @ 9:27:11 AM
Reply

Absolutely Right On Ben !!!
To rebut D1g1tal5torm's comment:
Since SE began converting from True Turn Based, way before FF VII, they have been determined to make these Action games. I was talking with the SE Developers at the E3, and they were totally adamant that this game was Turn Based. Yeah Right !!!
Okay, I'm getting off the subject... D1g1talStrom would be right if the amount of gamers never increased over the years, but it has, and the original customer base, plus many newbie's have stayed true to Turn Based Gaming. So his idea is sadly incorrect.
How many people won't buy this version he asks... Way more then you can possibly imagine. If you read all the articles SE has been publishing you will see they are extremely nervous.
I personally own every FF game, including imports, prior to FF XI, and plan to never buy another one. And I know for a fact of many others that have been turned off as well.
Can't see anyone wasting their hard earned money for something they won't play.
FF X (International was a little better), was still enough Turned Based to be Fun...
FYI, Vandal Hearts #3 DLC on the PS3 is a True Turned Based game, and although extremely "old school" and easy, it's a whole lot of fun.
The PS 1 Vandal Hearts was probably my favorite all time Turned Based RPG. This is "not" the same game...

0 up, 0 down

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Is FFXIII A Casualty Of Twitch-Gaming?

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