In Defense Of Reviewing Before Completing
View Large ImagePerhaps some of you have seen this: another site's probably ill-advised accusation concerning a Destructoid reviewer.
First of all, let me be perfectly blunt: I rarely agree with anything Jim Sterling writes and in fact, it's painfully evident that the vast majority of it is designed for gathering attention. And the site he works for...let's just say it isn't one I'd recommend. However, that being said, I will bite the bullet and defend Sterling in this particular case. This is beyond personal feelings; this is about the ongoing belief amongst the gaming public that a critic must complete a game before issuing a review. In regards to Final Fantasy XIII or other games that rely heavily on the story, perhaps there's something to this argument...one cannot anticipate how a relatively deep plot will emerge in the end and of course, that should have a significant impact on the overall score.
However, this is dangerously close to an issue I've often spoken about and one that may place me at odds with many readers. But the simple truth of the matter is that gamers want the impossible: they want in-depth, fully accurate reviews on the day of a game's release (even a week after is considered "late") and at the same time, they refuse to acknowledge the length of the product in question. Hundreds upon hundreds of games get released every year and even the biggest staffs simply do not have the time to complete every last title (ranging anywhere from 6-60 hours) before providing the public with a review. I've heard people compare this to watching half of a movie and then writing a review, or reading half a book or listening to half a CD. This is a terrible analogy. Outside of the story, there are plenty of things to evaluate in a game and just about all of them really won't change over time.
The graphics won't change. Perhaps the choreography of this cut-scene will be better than that one or maybe one environment will be slightly more appealing than the next, but within the first ten minutes of playing, you can tell how great the visuals in Uncharted 2: Among Thieves are, and how lacking they are in Jurassic: The Hunted. The same goes for sound quality (although you might have to play a bit more to judge the diversity of the music). The same goes for game control. A loose or sloppy control mechanic won't suddenly snap out of its funk halfway through the adventure. Really, it's only the story that can significantly change, although if some sources score depth as a category, that may require more game time. The bottom line is this: after reviewing games for all these years, I have almost never finished a game after reviewing it and said to myself, "man, my score was off."
Sterling gave FFXIII a 4/10. Now, that's just plain absurd regardless of the reasons. It's not Rogue Warrior bad. However, I will freely admit that neither Arnold or I completed FFXIII before giving you our reviews. I will freely admit that we often don't complete entire games before reviewing them, and I will further guarantee that other sources do the exact same thing. Look, we do the best we can. I think all sites do. We play as long as we can; we play until we believe we can write an accurate and reliable analysis for our readers. Will our final scores for FFXIII (8.7 for me and 8.1 for Arnold) change after finishing the game? Maybe. But I bet it won't be by much and we should remind you of this: who exactly is going to play for 50 hours if the other elements of the game are disappointing? Some are; some aren't. But that's the point; those other elements do matter, they can be judged before completing the game, and they do represent the majority of the presentation.
There are really only two of us doing reviews here at PSXE. And considering that, I think we pump out a gigantic amount of work. Our relationship with Sony allows us to give you huge reviews like Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, Killzone 2, God of War III and Heavy Rain the instant the embargos lift. We will miss other titles. It can't be avoided. We will never write a review if we think it would be unfair to the readers, in that we didn't play long enough. In the end, I'd like to say this- any critic worth a salt knows all of this. Please understand the reality of the situation and accept that sometimes, most times, a game will not be completed before the review. And if you compare the highest-rated games to the most beloved/best-selling titles of all time, I think you'll see that critics do a damn good job in this industry.
So please, don't complain too much. ...as ridiculous as a 4 sounds.
3/17/2010 Ben Dutka
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Comments (110 posts)
Wage SLAVES
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 8:15:27 PM
Though, I thought it was already a FACT that the ps3 was a superior console? Everything else is just opinion. Which is fine.
Facts:
Ps3=More reliable
Ps3=Raising the Bar of Games (Best Graphics from exclusives)
Ps3=HD gaming and HD standard media BD
PS3=Standard HDD
PS3=Rechargeable Controllers
Ps3=Free Online Gaming/Browser
Ps3=Best Visual/Audio in a console
http://www.youtube.com/user/Wip3ou7#p/u/13/JeY8Dzb-Vso
Do we really need to argue?
Anyways the only site that gets my attention, if that is worth anything, is PSXEXTREME!!! I know your reviews are always First Rate.
4 up, 1 down
to_far_apart
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:22:27 PM
Let's be honest, anyone who really wants a game, especially THAT one game you want, will get it despite whatever a review says. Now with that being said, those same people, like myself, will go to a trustworthy, no nonsense site *cough* notably PSXE *cough* lol, for insight of a particular game. Now, if it comes to a game where I like what i see but I'm still on the edge of purchasing it, then that's where a review becomes more important, what the strengths/weaknesses are, how the story is, graphics (doesn't bother me if the game is great), certain bugs like pixelation, repetition, etc, which do piss the hell out of me to be honest, any one of you would probably agree with me haha.
I feel that a lot of people take these reviews to seriously, if you will. What I mean by this is, some people, aka "fanboys" of a certain game, will take it personal if the review score isn't flawless. The fact is most people don't understand, with the exception of the PSXE crowd here in all honesty, that reviews are simply a tool for those who want to know a little more about a game or see another persons opinion. No review is without fault, despite all efforts, personal opinion in a broad retrospect, does influence a review. The beauty about the editors who do review (ie as exceptional as Ben and Arnold) is that they do provide a unique view, one which is generally neutral. That alone is one hell of a hard job, and i applaud you guys, you two are probably the best reviewers i've seen, along with you guys at PSXE. You guys always outdo yourself.
As for reviewing without completing a game, I definitely have no problem with that. People don't understand the time and energy it takes to review a game, and like you said, if you can narrow it down (iw graphics, music, etc) when you see the first hour of the game, if you will, and you know it's good, then it will generally be good throughout the game. With all the games and different deadlines you guys have to meet and even your personal lives, because i'm pretty sure you guys frequently take work home hahah, so to review games like GOW III, Uncharted 2, FFXIII, is an accomplishment all in itself. I think this in accordance with what i mentioned earlier, a review is a service to us if you think about it. If you don't like the review, or do no want to deal with the reality of the constraints, then deal with it and keep the comments to yourselves, or don't bother reading reviews at all. The analogy of CD and movie reviews is not even comparable to a game review. In my opinion, the amount of time one must take to review a game is mind boggling: discussing the atmosphere of the game, how the game utilizes certain changes from its predecessor, graphical techniques, ideologies/influences brought into the game, how the story is, the problems, the list is endless. If anything, we should consider ourselves lucky to get such insight to games, it really helps a lot when deciding on a game you're unsure of. Especially when the review comes from you guys at PSXE...simply FLAWLESS guys!
Honestly, people shouldn't complain, this is a unique service to the community, and like you said, they have been pretty damn accurate, so i don't agree with the complaining either. It's the reality of life, deal with it.
You guys rock man, keep it up!
9 up, 0 down
to_far_apart
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:28:24 PM
Hows everyone doing? Ben, Arnold, LV, Legendary, World, Highlander, etc???
2 up, 0 down
hellish_devil
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:26:51 PM
Reply
Last edited by hellish_devil on 3/17/2010 3:27:34 PM
1 up, 0 down
daus26
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:28:22 PM
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I have nothing against this, and it only makes sense.
Bty, a 4/10 does seem a bit absurd.
3 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:46:22 PM
3 up, 0 down
ed_winchester
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:28:50 PM
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One game that I felt was punished for this - and I dont mean by this webiste but reviews in general - was InFAMOUS. It had one of the best endings in a game in recent times but reviewers had made their mind up about the game before finishing it which meant IMO that the review scores were lower than it deserved
7 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:42:17 PM
I do agree that some scores for the game were low, though.
7 up, 1 down
ed_winchester
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:40:58 PM
Last edited by ed_winchester on 3/17/2010 5:41:38 PM
2 up, 0 down
piratedrunk
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:41:56 PM
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I tend to take all reviews with a grain of salt anyways so this isn't a huge deal for me. In fact they rarely make an impact on my purchase decisions.
6 up, 0 down
WolfCrimson
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:44:23 PM
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That being said, PSXe does seem to be understaffed when it comes to reviewing games. I've never seen a review by John Shepard here, so why not see if he's up for it? No pressure on him, though. Plus why not hire more people? Although I doubt there are many journalists out there of your and Arnold's degree of quality, honesty and non-biased-ness.
2 up, 0 down
Axe99
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:51:07 PM
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At the very least, my view is that any review not based on the full product has to disclose this or it is just plain misleading. I know it's not common industry practice, but if Sterling didn't do this, then he is at least partly at fault.
3 up, 1 down
Highlander
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:01:12 PM
4 up, 3 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:39:38 PM
As for Demon's Souls, same thing...the mechanics never changed. I was ready to give that game a high-8 in the first hour, honestly.
3 up, 1 down
to_far_apart
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:34:04 PM
0 up, 0 down
Oxvial
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:55:47 PM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:59:09 PM
Reply
May I just say BRAVO! Defending Jim Sterling is difficult at the best of times, and defending his score is even more difficult, but I think you pulled off this particular high wire act balancing the indefensible with the core issue. If a game takes upwards of 40-60 hours to complete even at 8 hours a day that's still 5 days solid for a 40 hour game. That's not practical, especially if your review staff is limited.
Oh, and by the way, for anyone about to complain that they should accept reader reviews or some such, consider this. There are many sites that accept freelance (aka reader) submitted reviews. Some sites (very few) try to at least proof and edit such reviews, however most sites do not. The result is often poor, cursory and downright amateurish reviews. PSX on the other hand maintains a high standard of writing and critical review by sticking to the limited number of reviewers - mainly Ben and Arnold. I personally appreciate that commitment to quality. It also protects PSX against the tidal wave of attention seeking style impaired reviews, that so many readers write, thinking that they are being smart or attracting hits.
So, let's cut reviewers a bit of slack when it comes to completing a game, especially a long one. Besides, how many times have each of us played several hours into a game and made our minds up about it? Do you need to play to the bitter end of a game that is simply no good to know it's no good? Nope, you know that a couple of hours in. Do you need to play a stellar game to completion to know it's stellar? nope, you know it within a couple of hours, although for a really good game that isn't weeks long, I could see many a reviewer deciding to finish the game because it's that good.
As for Jim Sterling, there are so many things to criticize him over, why would anyone in their right mind choose to criticize him because he didn't play FFXIII to the end before writing his review? It's a LONG game, and apparently one he did not enjoy.
Ben, thanks again for a thought provoking piece.
10 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:05:09 PM
It's just plain wrong.
6 up, 1 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:45:08 PM
0 up, 1 down
D1g1tal5torm
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:49:32 PM
3 up, 1 down
Highlander
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:54:54 PM
Well I do try...
It's not easy, but someone has to do it.
2 up, 0 down
Wage SLAVES
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 8:18:27 PM
Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 3/17/2010 8:19:45 PM
3 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 8:39:13 PM
1 up, 1 down
Snicket
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:06:44 PM
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My perspective is from someone in the Film and media arts program, so take this from someone who actually makes movies and games.
If the artists take the time to complete a full package, like a game or a CD then the person who does a review of something should invest some time to expearence the full package. I know of a reviewer who played Heavy Rain, but not the entire way though, in his review he called the game "slow", and it is, but only for the first parts.
If you write a review or give a game a score, and this is more the case when your opinion could help or hurt game sells, you need to take the time to be complete.
I know it takes time to play all these games, its hard to complete a 40+ hour game and give a review on release day. Look at Roger Ebert, the guy probably spends most of his day watching movies, its alot of time but people who do reviews are usually passionate about it, and he has been doing that for years and years. If I had to choose between a review of a half played game on release day or a complete review days or a week later, i'll take the complete version.
If this is a problem, then at the very least mention in your review that you did not complete the game, as to not give false impressions. Or if you cant play them all, focus on only a few titles.
7 up, 2 down
big6
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:18:12 PM
I mean, imagine writing a review for the movie,"Th Sixth Sense", after watching 90% of it?
I guarantee it'd be a lower score than if you were to see the whole thing, with the kick-you-in-your-face twist ending!
7 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:41:06 PM
3 up, 1 down
Snicket
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:05:23 PM
4 up, 2 down
fluffer nutter
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:54:06 PM
"Does this game make me want to save and go to something else?"
"Once I've saved it, do I really want to come back to it?"
"Why am I saving this game? I won't ever put it back in."
"I shouldn't be playing this game. I've got a presentation to complete which counts for 50% of my final grade!"
"Do these pants make my butt look big?"
These are the kinds of questions that may run through one's head while they are playing a game. If the game feels more like a chore, then I'm pretty sure that one can put a very low score for replayability.
Last edited by fluffer nutter on 3/17/2010 5:54:42 PM
3 up, 0 down
Snicket
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:15:09 PM
LOL, very true.
0 up, 0 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 4:36:16 AM
In 30 minutes of a movie you can determine whether or not the acting is good, does the music fit the type of movie, is the cgi good? If movies were 60 hours long no one would finish those either before reviewing them. It would be like saying reviews of star trek next gen released after the first season were unacceptable due to their being 6 more seasons.
The only thing that can't be determined by finishing a video game is how well the story rounds itself out. Ben is completely correct with this article and I support him on this completely.
@ Big6
As for The Sixth Sense, I'm a huge fan of M. Night, but I found that movie incredibly obvious. Go back and watch the opening scene, then consider what the plot of the movie is, I'm sorry it screamed obvious to me. I found some of his other movies very surprising though.
1 up, 1 down
DeejayDeez
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:12:48 PM
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And if what you are sayingis true, then what stops a publisher from also knowing this and simply taking a really crappy game (rogue warrior), that they probably knew was gonna be crap and just make the first 2-6 hours brilliant so that “the critics” give it rave reviews. Only those who play after the 6 hour mark will realize that the graphics suddenly got bad and there isn’t any sound anymore.
Sorry for the rant! Again, I am not referring to you all, just the article and the new info about reviewing only half a game. I just feel jipped! Whatever happened to the day when people completed their work before giving themselves a pat-on-the-back and saying “DONE”?
3 up, 2 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:43:50 PM
The point is, I agree with your work ethic virtue. However, it's tough to get a "pat on the back" when it takes you 50 hours to complete three or four games, and none of the reviews can possibly be out soon enough to satisfy the readers.
5 up, 1 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 4:42:42 AM
There is no way to allow multiple critics to critique a game at once. A dev not sending someone a copy of their game doesn't necessarily mean they don't want their critique.
0 up, 0 down
darxed
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:29:07 PM
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Now, I really, really, REALLY don't agree with Jim Sterling on this, and some of the backlash he got is well deserved IMO. He is obviously doing this kind of reviews just to get hits and attention, no more.
He did gave Assassin's Creed a 4.5, btw...
Last edited by darxed on 3/17/2010 4:30:36 PM
1 up, 0 down
JPBooch
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:36:01 PM
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I think it's imperitive to know how a game ends to critique it.
1 up, 1 down
WolfCrimson
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:04:06 PM
2 up, 0 down
SnipeySnake
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:05:23 PM
I KNOW! Is it that hard? They help so much when im stuck for so long. Sometimes or even most times, cheats can make a game funner/funnier.
0 up, 1 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 4:45:22 AM
Seeing the end is not the same as experiencing the game.
0 up, 0 down
WolfCrimson
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:04:07 AM
0 up, 0 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 6:15:53 AM
oh i agree that they are loads of fun, i definitely loved them on san andreas, but I don't think cheats should be used for reviews.
when I cheat I go all out, it becomes a very different game for me.
0 up, 0 down
maxpontiac
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:41:07 PM
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I do however have a major problem with someone who reviews a game and fails to explore all it has to offer. To someone who loves a certain game and has spent 50 hours plus in a title, it obvious that the reviewer is not doing any favors to the title, the fanbase, and especially the reader. Hopefully you keep yourself in check when it comes to your own ethics as a professional.
Get past the long paragraphs dealing with only certain features, and it's apparent the reviewer only played long enough to justify their pre-concieved notions and pre-judgements.
Bottom line is, certain titles demand more time being spent.
For example, it's painfully obvious that the a majority of reviewers failed to spend any decent time with Forza 3. If they did, they would have discovered a broken tuning system. They would have also seen the online features removed from Forza 2. I could go further. Instead, the majority of reviews all heralded it as the greatest racer ever created, 2 million copies were sold, and the fan backlash quickly followed.
It's the reviewers job (being key word) to provide the readers that trust them a fair, accurate, and well investigated game review.
Last edited by maxpontiac on 3/17/2010 4:42:22 PM
4 up, 0 down
Lairfan
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 4:46:22 PM
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Also, why are you defending this particular guy Ben? It sounds like he cares more about how many hits his site has rather than an informative review. It probably would have been better to defend a more well-respected reviewer who's done the same thing, rather than this idiot. I must say though, you did defend him really well; I just think the defense could have been better spent on someone who actually deserves it.
2 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:09:53 PM
2 up, 1 down
JackC8
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:05:17 PM
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I've played my share of games where my opinion of them was at least moderately changed in the last part. A good game with a terrible ending, or a game that took a long time to get going but finished up in fantastic form. Or an excellent game with a stupendous ending - I just finished one of those yesterday: Final Fantasy XII.
I generally agree with you - if you play quite a bit of a game, it's probably safe to say that the remainder of it isn't going to change your opinion much. But the fact that there are exceptions to the rule make it a somewhat risky proposition.
1 up, 1 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:09:22 PM
We play as long as we think necessary to issue an accurate review, and that's that.
2 up, 1 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 4:55:47 AM
Example: Oblivion
If I had only played the main storyline of oblivion I would have give that game probably only a 6/10. The story is incredibly short and would have left me with little knowledge of the depth of the game.
I'm just using this example to point out that Ben is saying that reviewers do need play the game until they have fully grasped the games content, not just play a certain amount of time.
p.s. I've never played a game that the ending drastically changed my opinion of it. For that matter I've played very few that changed my opinion much at all. While the stories ending may prove to have very good endings, they still will not change any feelings of the game other than the story.
0 up, 0 down
www
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:09:42 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
big6
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:20:06 PM
Reply
Don't save the best for last!
0 up, 1 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 4:58:24 AM
0 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:23:34 PM
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As much as I see jim sterling only as a reviewer wanna-be that just likes to stir up sh*t in order to get his 7 seconds of fame, I agree that you're defending him, and why(but just this once, LOL).
I think that this guy, "evan no-name what-ever" isn't any better than one of those scumbag paparazzi's who think nothing of rooting through a celebrity's garbage bags just to make up a headline.
Can you say internet stalker???
BTW Ben,
I was wondering if you or Arnold ever did a review on "Terminator Salvation" by Evolved Games????
I looked through the PS3 reviews here, but couldn't find one.
Last edited by BikerSaint on 3/17/2010 5:24:52 PM
1 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:08:25 PM
0 up, 1 down
darxed
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:32:41 PM
0 up, 0 down
Bugzbunny109
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:43:15 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
Mr Bitey
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 5:53:23 PM
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He has single handidly dragged down scores for Heavy Rain, Assassins Creed 2, FFXIII, etc, etc It just goes to show how flawed the metacritic process is.
8 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:08:42 PM
5 up, 1 down
darxed
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:35:54 PM
Last edited by darxed on 3/17/2010 6:36:31 PM
6 up, 0 down
NoSmokingBandit
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:48:35 PM
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 7:00:50 PM
1 up, 0 down
migabyte
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:46:40 PM
Reply
2 up, 1 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:03:38 AM
0 up, 0 down
NoSmokingBandit
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 6:47:25 PM
Reply
If he took points off because he didnt like the story then i would agree that it is unfair. However, if he took points off for the gameplay then the last chapter isnt going to change his score anyway.
Anyone else think this generation of gamers is the most whiny group of gamers ever?
1 up, 0 down
JackC8
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 7:06:35 PM
3 up, 0 down
Temjin001
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 8:27:01 PM
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And with my opinion on the "reviewing of a full game" matter. I don't feel strongly either way. I know, many times, I've ventured a good 1/4-1/2 way through a game and have come to a general conclusion about the quality of the overall product before having finished it. All I really want out of a review is getting a reliable analysis of somebody's impression they had with a game.
3 up, 0 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:06:27 AM
I have seen some of their reviews where they have completed the game and others where I discovered they only played the game for no more than 4-5 hours. (I know because I played said game and some of their claims were incorrect after that point.)
1 up, 0 down
JDC80
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:20:06 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
Deleted User
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:24:34 PM
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What does annoy me though is when this site writes previews of games that have just put a demo on the PSN!
Seriously, if the game is in the PSN I can play it myself! I don't
need a "preview" at that stage, as I imagine most people with an Internet connection don't...
Either preview it weeks/months in advance or don't bother, it kind of makes the site seem amateurish when you preview stuff that everyone is already playing.
Oh well... Peace in the middle east hombres!
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:39:05 PM
If you hadn't noticed, people tend to prefer hands-on previews over regular ones.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/18/2010 10:57:36 AM
2 up, 1 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:10:28 AM
Even if we can play the demo ourselves, we are not trained to make ourselves pay attention to all the tiny aspects Ben and other reviewers are. As I stated in a comment on a previous article, true journalistic critics notice things the common gamer does not.
I sometimes read something about a demo that I hadn't noticed, I find it useful as I can go back and look for that issue or whatever.
0 up, 0 down
I_defenestrate
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 4:34:46 PM
Makes perfect sense to me.
0 up, 0 down
I_defenestrate
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:33:27 PM
Reply
Knowing that you don't now doesn't change my opinion one bit because your reviews are very well written and even more informing.
I think the thing is, if a reviewer gives a decent scoring game a bad score and it's found out that they didn't complete the game, then they are going to be reamed for not completing it to give a good review. The question is, could the same be said for giving the same game a high score? Would that review even come into question? What if they gave it a similar score to other reviewers who did complete the game? Is their score less credible than the ones who did?
Bottom line, if you're a crap reviewer, you're a crap reviewer. Whether you complete the game or not.
Last edited by I_defenestrate on 3/17/2010 9:43:14 PM
3 up, 0 down
Gordo
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:34:38 PM
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I'm ashamed to say that many games nowadays I play on easy and maybe switch up to normal later. Uncharted 2 I have played through twice on easy.
Pathetic you may say, but I've got a wife, kids and job that limits the play time.
I can't spend a week playing something solidly until I'm good enough on crushing!
Also, my idea of enjoyment is a good challenge but not one too frustrating or limiting so that I don't want to keep going.
So gameplay is very important and just because a reviewer hasn't gotten all the trophies or even completed the game it's their overall impressions that are most crucial.
Also a reviewers "body of work" helps as well because we will then know how they rated similar games and what their subtle biases are.
Some reviews of Heavy Rain and Assassins Creed II for example, sounded like they only played for an hour. You can always spot reviews with style over substance.
Ben's review of Heavy Rain on the other hand, was one of the most stylistic, in depth and heartfelt reviews I have ever read.
Kudos to you guys here at PSExtreme.
4 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:38:11 PM
1 up, 1 down
SolidFantasy
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:42:05 PM
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In fact now that I think about you could probably make the same argument about all Metal Gears
0 up, 0 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:13:43 AM
0 up, 0 down
telly
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 9:46:12 PM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
Alienange
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 10:35:16 PM
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As nice as it is to have a great story in a game, if the game is crud, then that story is wasted.
That being said, if the game is 10-12 hours long, as the majority these days are, you had best finish playing it before broadcasting your review. That is not too much to ask and any less is just lazy.
1 up, 0 down
Scarecrow
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 10:47:29 PM
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I'm no pro reviewer BUT I remember playing Final Fantasy XII and going through it slowly....
No doubt this game has so much to offer, from hunts, to deep environment exploration, to quests (many town related :) ), to unraveling the License system, etc.
I know for a fact that one can grasp and understand the game better by experiencing everything it has as opposed to RUNNING through a straight line to finishing the game. In most games what has been SET from the beginning up to the mid point of the game is what the game is made off. The rest is just the lead up to the end. Halfway a game doesn't go all radical and change everything.
All GOOD gamers know what this editorial is talking 'bout. The game reveal themselves once they reach the midpoint*
0 up, 0 down
Milonakis
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 11:51:58 PM
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1 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 12:46:35 AM
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But now it's off my chest and you know the deal...and you still like us. So thanks. :)
5 up, 1 down
SvenMD
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 9:04:02 AM
The problem with the reviewer in question is that ALL of their reviews are completely biased...and the worse part is that they actually get incorporated onto more legit sites like metacritic, where people actually do respect the score - I mean the idea behind metacritic is to remove bias. But when it's blatantly this bad, it's kinda hard not to get pissed off.
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 10:57:14 AM
Places like Destructoid don't help the industry at all; I'll just leave it there.
2 up, 0 down
migabyte
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 1:11:55 AM
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0 up, 1 down
Deleted User
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 3:30:25 AM
My biggest pet hate about this generation other than the extremely annoying amounts of fanboyism is the conpletely ridiculous attitude that has developed among gamers that any less than a 9 review score is a travesty!
People going beserk on the IGN boards because GOW3 "only" got a 9.3..?!
What is going on?? Clearly someone went abit crazy at the beginning of the generation with their review score and that set a precedent that everyone feels obliged to along with.
When Resistance 2 (a great game) is being given scores equivalent to Super Mario 64 something is going seriously wrong...
I think PSXExtreme should write an editorial on this perhaps. I remember the days when a 9 blew my mind...
0 up, 0 down
ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 1:40:28 AM
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But allow me to clarify this much, there are a ton of games that I review that I'm basically 80-100% done with at the time the review goes up, because many publishers send me their games much earlier on, allowing me to play them on my debug PlayStation 3 unit. Games like God of War III, Uncharted 2, Street Fighter IV, Devil May Cry 4, Metal Gear Solid 4, Darksiders, Batman, BlazBlue, Call of Duty MW and MW2, Killzone 2, Uncharted 1, and the list goes on and on.
If you guys notice a review we have is late, that's because we took our time to play the game as much as possible - like Ben said, we won't deliver a review until we're absolutely confident we get it. So don't get us wrong, we're not playing these games for 2 hours and calling it a day (unless the game is that short), we'll put in considerably more time than that. And no, we don't complete every single game, but in many cases we are very close. And don't forget that these days, the average game is less than 10 hours long, so hours in most of us already see a giant chunk of the game and understand exactly what it's all about. So, in a way, it makes reviewing games today a little easier.
4 up, 0 down
I_defenestrate
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 1:55:46 AM
Last edited by I_defenestrate on 3/18/2010 2:04:33 AM
1 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 10:56:04 AM
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 12:37:30 PM
1 up, 0 down
I_defenestrate
Friday, March 19, 2010 @ 1:48:56 AM
I'm in no way a reviewer, but I started playing it today and while it does have a bit of a learning curve with the battle system, it has a lot of potential to be very fun. Not to mention the art style has already grabbed me. I'm a big fan of steampunk though so that may be a bit of bias. I've been playing for about 4 or 5 hours and the story is making no real sense to me at the moment, but that could very well change.
I borrowed it from work, but based on my initial play period, it's going into my collection.
In the first hour though, I experienced a town, a world map, AND npcs. Hmmm...
Last edited by I_defenestrate on 3/19/2010 1:52:36 AM
1 up, 0 down
___________
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 2:26:45 AM
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how can one review a game if they have not finished it?
there going to look seriously stupid if one reviews a game and complains about something not being in the game when it is they just did not get up to it.
for example dantes inferno, if you played only half the game you could say the enemies are the same they rarely change but if you played the full game you would find out that in the last few circles theres a good amount of new enemies.
or a game could be polished to a tee for the first half, than the second half is a utter mess.
now you would look really stupid to say in your review the game is well polished when in fact its not, you just dont know because you did not get to the part that isnt.
obviously not the side missions, getting 100% like GTAIV the story mode is only like 40% if memory serves me well. (which it dont)
what is the point of reviewing a game?
to give the user a idea, a window if you will in to a game so they can get a idea if they will like it or not.
now how can the reviewer give me a window into a game if he has not played it all yet?
0 up, 4 down
Snaaaake
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:02:31 AM
0 up, 0 down
___________
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 7:35:59 AM
no one should base a purchase off of reviews because as they say one mans garbage is another mans pulp puree!
if your unsure if you should buy a game, play the demo if available, if not the video store is your friend.
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 10:54:51 AM
5 up, 0 down
kraygen
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:30:45 AM
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With the way that video games are designed I have to pose a question to you. What do you consider finished?
Should the reviewer simply play through the story? Do they need to play the story and every side mission? Do they need to unlock every item? Do they need to get every trophy available or even more drastic, see every dialogue option?
What is acceptable? By your reasoning the game cannot be understood until you have examined every possible word, every decoration, every nuance of the game. That is preposterous.
It is a reviewers job to play the game until they understand what it offers to gamers and then give an unbiased, factual, review of the content of the game. It is not their job to tell you every little thing that happens. Once they have experienced what the game as a whole is about then they can relay that to us.
You do not have to experience every sidequest to know whether the gameplay is good or not. You do not have to hear every piece of music to know whether the music in general fits the tone of the game.
In the end what Ben has said is true. You can understand a game without discovering every last little thing that it offers.
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 10:34:53 AM
2 up, 0 down
spiderboi
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 5:31:13 AM
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1 up, 0 down
D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 8:12:17 AM
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Playability, and this could then be separated out from replay value.
0 up, 0 down
Milonakis
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 8:35:12 AM
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0 up, 1 down
DeathOfChaos
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 10:00:44 AM
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0 up, 1 down
Highlander
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 10:36:46 AM
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 10:53:50 AM
And I think you're vastly overstating the flaws.
3 up, 0 down
D1g1tal5torm
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 12:07:00 PM
Trying to appeal to 360 fanbase.
1 up, 0 down
DeathOfChaos
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 3:09:16 PM
I wasn't TOO worried when it came to be a multiplat, that was alright, though still shocking. Really wondered why they did that, but nothing I could do about it. Then the gameplay changed, I thought well, that's alright too, I guess...really hoped it stayed with the 2007 footage, but works. But what's really sad is one of the biggest things that hit me before it's release in America was its English theme song. Her voice is annoying, the music doesn't fit the way FFXIII feels or looks, and what was even worse is they nailed her name into the whole thing like she owned the title. Then everything else fell into place.
Needlessly to say, by the time it came out, all my expectations of the title that I was so excited for were melted away, and the only thing left was a single straight line. That was the end of me being excited. A whole image and excitement was stripped away and I was left with a game that, other than the spectacular quality in graphics and scenery along with the deep story, it felt like I was left with a cheap third party game with a song at the end that I leave the room while it plays. Or mute it...
Last edited by DeathOfChaos on 3/18/2010 3:09:46 PM
0 up, 0 down
Robochic
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 12:05:02 PM
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Reviews are only ment to be what you see and play in a few hours, honestly nothings going to change through out the game for graphics, sounds, mechanics ect. If it does no one cares or notices it.
I comes here for my reviews because of how well written and unbiased the reviews are plus Ben and Arnold tell you how it is instead of tip toeing around the issue and they never spoil anything.
1 up, 0 down
DeathOfChaos
Thursday, March 18, 2010 @ 3:11:13 PM
1 up, 2 down
Irievibes
Friday, March 19, 2010 @ 11:58:58 AM
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i remember companies used to put codes or made enhanced versions of the games for reviewers so they could skip ahead on content and check out differnet parts of the game and features without having to play thru the entire thing (A.K.A. Cheats, god mode, etc. )
i dont think companies do that anymoredo they?
although i realize there are some titles you just dont wanna spoil jaja, but would help you guys review all the other stuff you gotta review that you dont necesarily want to play ;)
Last edited by Irievibes on 3/19/2010 11:59:37 AM
0 up, 0 down
acdc
Saturday, March 20, 2010 @ 11:06:10 PM
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But the reality is that when you are forced to play games because it is a job, it becomes a grind and not quite as enjoyable.
I fully endorse putting out a review for a game without finishing it. But at the very least, let everyone know far you got into the game.
Let's face it, things like level design, pacing, and story may be very uneven throughout a game. The only way to gain a handle on the whole is to actually finish the game.
I'm fine with game reviewers playing a game just long enough to get a "good enough" assessment. But can they at least tell us how far they got into the game? Not putting completion percentage info in the review gives the impression that you actually finished the game. That is intellectually dishonest if nothing else.
Guess what, this site doesn't do it. Neither do most of the other "big name" review sites. Hmm. I wonder why?
There's a distinct lack of transparency in video game reviews on this area. Why give the impression that a reviewer finished the game and was able to review the game as a whole when that did not actually happen?
If every reviewer put the game completion information as part of video game review, the original editorial would have never been written.
Ben, I know you can't fix the review process on other sites, but you can fix the review process on this one. What do you say?
0 up, 0 down
stub3n
Tuesday, March 23, 2010 @ 10:10:18 PM
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If your too busy to finish games before reviewing, hire more people or don't write reviews.
That's my 2-cents and that's the same rules I apply to my blog and it's writers. iheartdestroy[dot]com - shameless plug. I like PSXextreme and they often have news up before other people. I have nothing against reviews before finishing games only in cases such as ff13 but the writer should CLEARLY state it's unfinished and there review only covers 10hours out of the 50+ hours in the game. 1 other thing it's ok to be have a bias opinion, everyone does but a lot of reviewers pretend not to until their readers find out for themselves and call em out.
1 up, 0 down
ace_boon_coon
Reply
Wednesday, March 17, 2010 @ 3:16:58 PM