: Gaming Journalism Mirroring Internet Stupidity

Members Login: Register | Why sign up? | Forgot Password?

Gaming Journalism Mirroring Internet Stupidity

In many ways, the Internet has been the death of intelligent, informed reporting and civilized reader interaction. It's hardly akin to a few intellectuals discussing the New York Times Book Review on a Sunday (and yes, I'm aware the Times is online). The point is, we've admitted in the past that online gaming "journalism," such at is, doesn't really qualify as pure news reporting because there's almost always some semblance of opinion infused into the articles. And this is because most sites are trying to build an interactive community and readership, which is quite different from the old-fashioned form of reporting in newspapers.

So we admit that. But something else appears to be happening. We all know about the rampant idiocy typically found in many a gaming forum online, and while most members will say it's "all in good fun" and "doesn't mean anything," there's just something wrong in the fact that you can't post in certain places for more than two minutes without seeing some insecure, socially useless individual calling someone else a fanboy or a flat-out idiot. It has gotten to the point where most such "communities" are uninhabitable for fun-loving gamers who don't have a vendetta against the world because they freeze up around girls in real life. Now, it appears as if many so-called "journalists" and gaming websites are mirroring this behavior; there seems to be an influx of "shock-jock" reporters and random hostile gamers writing over-the-top pieces of worthless trash for the express purpose of attention and traffic.

The latter fact is, obviously, yet another negative facet of the online reporting world. It's sad that such articles get any attention whatsoever but when you see the type of adolescent whining, posturing and insulting going on everywhere online, it isn't difficult to understand. But where will it end? Perhaps the bigger sites like GameSpot and IGN are now immune to this - they won't hire such people and they won't publish such pieces - but there are hundreds of other sites, and many seem to be microcosms of the aforementioned Internet stupidity. I hate to admit it, but I'm more than a little embarrassed to tell journalists I used to work with what I do...because I'm afraid they'll go online and see what "gaming journalism" is, and unfortunately, has become. The writing quality is at an all-time low, too. But I suppose nobody cares.

I would've hoped that as the industry aged and gamers aged, the journalism would conform and age as well. And I'm not saying there aren't quality, adult reporters out there; I'm merely saying they're being overrun by the smaller and medium sites, all vying for valuable traffic by trying to run an even more ridiculous article with a more eye-catching title. The "eye-catching" part wouldn't be so bad if so many gamers online didn't let their eye be caught by junk. What, you think we don't know that "PlayStation 3 Rules and You Suck" articles wouldn't get us more traffic? Sure, you'd get a lot of haters (and rightfully so) but as Gene Simmons said, there's no such thing as bad publicity. And we've done attention-getting articles in the past. But the result is highly disagreeable to us and to our community of unusually intelligent people.

Looking at it from afar, it's a little depressing. There are plenty of civil gamers out there, and plenty of capable journalists who could simply do their jobs. Opinion and thoughts of one's own may be necessary to keep an interactive readership alive, so that will indeed differ from that of traditional reporting. But beyond that, as "articles" start to look more and more like the usual forumite ranting, the less chance we have of any other journalist for any other industry taking us seriously.

7/23/2010 Ben Dutka

Put this on your webpage or blog:
Email this to a friend
Follow PSX Extreme on Twitter

Share on Twitter Share on Facebook Share on Google Share on MySpace Share on Delicious Share on Digg Share on Google Buzz Share via E-Mail Share via Tumblr Share via Posterous

Comments (112 posts)

Kangasfwa
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:17:45 PM
Reply

Well that's why the community loves this site and its editors. It's like a haven for the avid gamers who want to have real (non-flaming) discussions. We know it can be hard to maintain it, but that just makes us appreciate you guys even more. Thanks for all your hard work staffers of PSX Extreme.

Agree with this comment 25 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:29:05 PM
Reply

This is basically the only site I enjoy. Even sites like Gameinformer and GamePro which I ADORE. Love those two mags have a community that let's just say is not the kind I'd like to associate myself with.

Few gaming sites are actually authentic and all 'bout news reporting.

Kotaku is probably the worst thing you could ever come across.

It's great to have psxe, here discussions for the most part are civilized and educative.

It's also a cultural issue. The West admires idiocy

Not everyone does mind you, but a large majority instead of shunning these kind of behavior actually encourage it.

Sadly it's a cultural issue at heart.

Agree with this comment 14 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:36:41 PM

Kotaku is worse than Destructoid?

Agree with this comment 8 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:17:16 AM

Close

Agree with this comment 4 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

tes37
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:32:37 PM
Reply

I think some people are just hard wired for the extremely stupid and weird. I'm glad there are places made for them. It eases the burden on you Ben. Although I do pop in sometimes.

With articles as well written as this, you should invite your journalist friends to read your writing before they see the other stuff. That way they get a taste of what true gaming journalism is about.

I don't ever make time to read sites that post nonsense. I just read from a couple of different good ones, starting with this one.

Last edited by tes37 on 7/23/2010 10:37:08 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Luiscosmo2
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:37:13 PM
Reply

Welcome to the new generation...

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Deleted User
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:45:34 PM
Reply

Honestly, I've never had much respect for IGN's editors. They can come off as jerks, too. Heck, pretty much every site is filled with either jerks, egotists, fanboys, attention whores, incompetence and/or powder kegs. Today, you have the likes of Tina Sanchez at 1up, who uses her so-called "attractiveness" to snare little boys who have never been kissed to suck up to her or Jim Sterling sounding like your typical teenager hopped up on his version of liquid courage (Mountain Dew), spewing his worthless views of the industry.

I miss the days of Electronic Games, where the journalists were professional and took their jobs seriously.

I'm proud that PSX Extreme has followed suit and lives up to the Electronic Games style of journalism. This is how it's supposed to be done.

Last edited by n/a on 7/23/2010 10:49:49 PM

Agree with this comment 10 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

REDZONE
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 6:17:50 PM

I agree with you.I never had much respect for IGN or 1UP.Tina is one of the biggest fan persons I've seen in a while, and she actually shows her favouritism blatantly towards the xbox when she writes her reviews or previews.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Deleted User
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:24:51 PM

Well, her Xbox bias doesn't bother me as we have plenty of ardent Xbots online posing as "journalists". I'm more angry at Tina over her piss-poor performance as the 1up Community Manager. It's disgusting to see what goes on there. You have to be subservient to her and her gang of idiots to get into her clique. She bans people without warning and she's turned off people with her "Look at me! I'm hot!" attitude.

Worse yet are their top bloggers, who act like they are a big deal. Most of these people are absolute snobs and phonies.

It's a terrible place. 1up needs to die.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

GuernicaReborn
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:59:10 PM
Reply

I guess being a gaming journalist seems to be a double-edged sword. As cool as your job is,you have to sift through this crap looking for the most recent gaming news.

Thats why you're here, though. To sift through the stupidity, so we don't have to.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

556pineapple
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:00:55 PM
Reply

This is exactly why this is my main source of Playstation News. Every article I've read here that somebody may try to claim as "fanboy," has been thoroughly, and intelligently presented, explained, argued, and backed. I'm sick of seeing articles based purely on opinion being passed off as fact, or simply old information that's no longer relevant.

I don't remember the details but last year I read an article on MSN that did reviews of the consoles, and they didn't recommend the PS3 based on old, outdated, and untrue information. Now I know they're owned by MS, so I wouldn't expect anything less, but I saw similar articles on both less reputable, and more reputable sites, and I was just astonished.

I think people are used to posting anything they want under the cloak of anonymity, and if they post something online with their real name on it, they just forget, or don't care to represent themselves with any intelligence.

I saw somebody post on Facebook today "The end of humanity began with cheeseburgers." I think the culprit was not cheeseburgers, but the internet.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

GuernicaReborn
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:06:01 PM

People blame everything on cheeseburgers. I'm sick of it, man.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

kraygen
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:08:02 AM

Well they do cause cancer. ;)

Agree with this comment 1 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

fluffer nutter
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:11:45 PM
Reply

I think you people should head to the forums. Quick. Go look. Hurry...

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:19:14 PM
Reply

The internet: cause and solution to all of life's problems.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

GuardianMode
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:26:24 PM
Reply

I feel the same way. Other online sites have evolved into flamebait wars. Mostly one or 2 editors will say something like the 360 can do this better or the PS3 is L33T. After that, its like a bomb. "BooooM"
Frankly I stopped posting on other formus unless it is a really,really good post. Every now and then someone writes a great article or viewpoint on one of them. Yet they are over shadowed by the 90% Flame Wars that pop on daily. Thank goodness for this site. I wrote my peace..thank you.

Last edited by GuardianMode on 7/23/2010 11:27:32 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:29:50 PM
Reply

Ben, the power of the Eye or Moron continues to spread.

The Eye of Moron being the collective stupidity, immaturity, hatred, negativity and complete ignorance of the Internet. Imagine a billion minds, unfiltered. Imagine how much stupidity, immaturity, hatred, negativity and complete ignorance that represents. Remember the symbol of the disembodied "Eye of Sauron" in The Lord of the Rings. It represented the will and focus of Sauron.

I often feel like the collective stupidity, immaturity, hatred, negativity and complete ignorance of the Internet is a kind of mass consciousness and it acts independently from the individuals that form it. The group consciousness that is the Eye of Moron can be seen and felt across the web. But occasionally it will focus one one thing or another, and you can feel the atmosphere change as the minions of the Eye attempt to flood the place with negative, inflammatory, ignorant, hate ridden comments.

The world of technology in general is very prone to the attentions of the Eye of Moron. The console wars over the last few years have facilitated the Eye's presence among the community, and as time has passed and more and more commenters fell under it's influence those running forums and new blogs began to change. Over time the had to become even more inflammatory, biased, vulgar and plain ignorant in order to attract and maintain their audience.

That is one of the things that makes PSXExtreme unique. We may have our bias towards Sony, but we are thankfully free from the influence of the Eye of Moron - so far. I hope we can continue to be free of it, because it's influence is purely negative.


Last edited by Highlander on 7/23/2010 11:35:27 PM

Agree with this comment 12 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:01:21 AM

I have one more thought to add.

We in the US, and to a lesser extent other countries like the UK, prize our individuality. We instill a strong sense of the individual in our children. But I have seen this change from being a great thing to be questionable at best. Generations of kids have been raised believing that they are the only ones that matter, that their rights trump everyone and everything else. They believe that they are entitled to everything, and have the right to say whatever they want without consequences or having to take responsibility. Thoughtless, inconsiderate, hateful, selfish and abusive speech are the norm. Thinking is overrated, and intellectuals (aka people who think) are denigrated for taking time to think and consider things.

The things is, that is how they behave in the real world. Online these negative aspects of the sense of individuality are magnified several times over. When you combine this wit the whole Eye of Moron thing, you can see where things are headed, and at warp speed.

:(

Agree with this comment 12 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:32:21 AM

This two comments are probably the two best comments I have read this whole year.

They truly signify a lot of the things I've observed/thought for years.

In fact I was actually talking 'bout the very same thing to a college friend of mine a year or two ago. The fact that the individuality America/the West instills into everyone can be a double-edged sword. In many instances it can create individuals who live only for themselves in every way possible.

Basically they're raising a lot of immature independent kids who act like idiots at any given time.

Not everyone is like that though. As always there are exceptions. But in general one has to take off those patriotic glasses and think about it.

What's amazing is the levels game communities and 'news' sites take this kind of idiotic/irresponsible behavior. Truly legendary levels.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:32:24 AM

Is there any possible way I can live without the Eye of the Moron? Pretty sure it's the bane of my existence.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:51:33 AM

I wish there was Ben, if ever I find a way, I will be sure to let you know. In the meantime I tell myself that come the revolution, they'll be first against the wall along with lawyers, politicians, bankers and insurance executives.

I have to admit, after I first realized that the Eye of Moron really does exist, it has at least helped me deal with the existence of it. Perhaps it helps to be able to categorize/ label the thing so it's no longer a nameless tide of nasty.

You know, there has been talk of a kind of internet II based on IPV6. A new version of the basic internet protocol that allows every device in the world to have it's own, unique and difficult to spoof address. IPV6 is designed to be far more capable and secure than the existing TCP/IP address and protocol standards. Coupled with that ISPs have talked about being able to use IPV6 to make individual users traceable. Perhaps the thought that they will no longer be protected by the illusory anonymity and the Internet will keep the Eye of Moron and it's individual parts bottled up on the old Internet while everyone else moves on up to Internet II?

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:59:41 AM

I think I want to go back to before the cell phone.

And I also think that if the Eye of the Moron seems to have an addictive quality to it...like if you look at it, you'll be under its control. It scares the crap out of me.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 1:55:21 AM

Yep, it has the ability to paralyze and absorb you. I have seen relatively mature and sane people sucked in to it. It really does act like a malevolent force. It's an interesting and worrisome phenomenon of the group mind of the Internet.

You must actively maintain your standards and contacts and interests outside the Internet, and *never* tolerate the Eye of Moron in your midst.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 2:01:52 AM

The Eye of Moron. Curiously, it's true. The hivemind mentality of humans is frightening in and of itself, but when you picture that working in concert to spread the negative thought processes of individuals... truly scary. Unfortunately you are also right about it becoming its own entity, separate from the parts (individuals) which form it. An unstoppable beast.

As for the individuality and independence of people in the modern age. You're right, it goes both ways. It imbues them... no, us, with a sense that we can do anything we want, and achieve anything. However, is this really worth the cost of inter-personal relationships? Is the drive to accomplish something, worth the death of an accumalatory (I don't think that's a word... Well, it is now) knowledge of the human race? That is what the internet should be. A base for all knowledge, not the pit of hostility and pornography that it is today. Thinking about this is getting me down.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 2:20:29 AM

Lawless,

Don't let it get you too down. We are here talking about this in one of the corners of the Net that is a safe haven from the Eye. You, me, all of us need to remain vigilant and keep our brains moving. By doing so we can successfully avoid and resist the Eye of Moron. At least that's the way I see it. I won't give in to it, I would rather leave the 'net and find a cave to live in than join the Eye of Moron.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 8:50:15 AM

The Eye Of Moron is a great way to describe this dark and sinister force lurking about the web.

I think its overall influence is greatly underestimated, so much so... that Joe Soap doesn't know when being influenced or degraded by it... It is a pretty scary force to deal with... I see the result of it on my computer screen daily, and wish I could take a cloth and wipe it off my screen... But alas, to no avail...

Upon arriving at PsXeXtreme... the cruddy crap of the web umniverse is no more. I can smile again, read again and be stimulated postively again... Thanks to Ben and his team...

Q!

"PsXeXtreme, It's the way the web should be!"



Last edited by Qubex on 7/24/2010 8:52:05 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Fane1024
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:40:36 AM

I guess that would make PSXExtreme the Shire and Ben and Arnold are the Rangers of the North keeping us safe.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 11:36:22 PM
Reply

The internet has started the slow, but inevitable death of intelligence. That's it. People no longer seem to care about carrying a conversation. As many have stated here before, the modern age is one of instant gratification, and as a result, it doesn't matter whether what you say makes a shred of sense, as long as it is flaming someone else, you get a buzz from it, and it makes you feel good. It grants you a feeling of empowerment. It's a crying shame.

If you want an example of bad journalism, take a gander over at 411mania. On the other hand, such a setup could be construed as working well. They split up the news, and present it as is, while having opinionated articles seperate. I don't really like it though.

Online journalism is entirely different from what it is in print. Online, it can reach everyone, everywhere in the world provided they have an internet connection (Government censorship aside). Print cannot. Print can only reach a select audience, whether that be local, state or national. It cannot reach the entire world. So it is that the reporting is far more formal, and they don't need to attract a base, it already exists.

Compare this to what it is online and suddenly, the writers and editors need to appeal to people. They need to offer something that can garner an audience, and so, opinion is needed. The problem with this is that the aforemention opinion is usually presented as fact, and as a result the readers adopt the bias of the writers. It then continues in a circle with the whole show becoming less professional, until it devolves into a cesspool that anyone with a shred of decency would not want to enter.

Lament for the future, for the end is nigh.
Peace.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:34:37 AM

Your first paragraph is why I remain convinced I was born like 125 years too late. There's a reason my favorite authors are Eliot, Wharton, and Tolstoy.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Shams
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:06:36 AM
Reply

It really is quite the sanctuary, here, at psxextreme. And it's because of a continued and devoted effort over a few years on your part, Ben. And, for that we thank you. And I hope you don't get too glum. I'm sure there are one or two peers you can keep in touch with, besides, of course, the regular Psxextreme staff, God love'em, that should keep you optimistic of other possible oases in this epic sea of idiocy permeating the internet.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:33:33 AM

Well, those peers know me for other reasons besides PSXE, so they base my reputation on that. It's just that these days, people will routinely ask why I'm "wasting my talents."

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:41:46 AM

I wouldn't say you were wasting your gifts Ben, but I understand what you're talking about.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 8:57:44 AM

Ben, one day you should decide to write a book, your story... that pulls together the best of what you have read, absorbed, studied... A life's work about Life in the internet age, with a quirkry title.

Maybe a work covering, "Journalism, For The Internet Age". It would be an interesting read about the state of journalistic affairs and how the internet has, is and will cause journalism to change... for better or for worse...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 7/24/2010 8:59:25 AM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

kraygen
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:13:18 AM
Reply

Well I can honestly say this is the only site that I comment on at all because I've yet to find another that wasn't full of mind numbingly ignorant comments and endless name calling.

Every other site I've gone to, even if there was a half decent article, the comments section is full of ppl flaming others with ridiculous comments that have no basis in reality. Sadly there are plenty of ppl to respond to these ludicrous comments and it always becomes an endless and meaningless debate.

Thank goodness for psx, because even when we don't all agree here, we all seem to be able to discuss it like humans, instead of acting like the creatures we kill in most of our games.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Cowsick
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 1:16:47 AM
Reply

This is the most intelligent and unbiased sites i've visited, even though its a Sony centric website. There is a difference between your editorials and the garbage they have at Kotaku or Destructoid. You put in a lot of thought into what you write. You deserve the journalist tag more than those muckrakers. Kudos to you and to PSXExtreme for having a sensible community.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

faraga
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 1:22:30 AM
Reply

And that is the reason why this is my main source for gaming news. Everyone is mature, the articles are well-written and there is little trolling and arguments (except for some minor political arguments, mostly started by Jawknee).
(No hate intended.)

Last edited by faraga on 7/24/2010 1:23:43 AM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

StangMan80
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 1:25:52 AM
Reply

Thats why I come here. This site is so much more welcoming and truthful. You can't find another site like that. Heres to many more great years here at PSX!!!

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 2:38:03 AM
Reply

I find it interesting that it's gotten to the point that if you are treated with respect, it's because that person treating you well is a regular. Non-regulars are often really mean!

For a recent example, WorstNightmare has the ability to disagree with me while staying 100% respectful. I admire that quality in people there. (WorstNightmare, I only use you due to how recent it was. :p)

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

sirbob6
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 3:54:03 AM
Reply

I have to say this is one of the few places with quality articles. It is also one of the few sites that has been a truly fun place to be and that has very few trolls, the other site being an alt-history site.

I enjoy how the relitivy small community is courteous to one another (usually) and will contribute greatly to the subject rather than degrading into a fight. A tight ship and a happy ship often go together.

Last edited by sirbob6 on 7/24/2010 3:56:06 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:20:05 AM
Reply

tis why i dont listen to them anymore.
the day GTAIV got a 10 was the day i stopped listening, and the day games like halo ODST, crackdown 2 and MW2 get 9s was the final nail in the coffin!
halo ODST gets 9s, where heavy rain gets 7s?
WTF?
which games better, ODST or heavy rain?
that ones quite obvious, asking that is like asking whats better a Ferrari enzo, or a Suzuki swift!

i use to think Xplay were pretty good, i normally agree with them.
but than they gave singularity a 3 and crackdown 2 a 4!
a unique game with a strong story and great graphics gets a 3, and a game that takes 2 levels and repeats them 10 times, has poor story and poor graphics gets a 4!
WTF????????????

only reviews i bother with now are good games, there normally really good, they normally hit the nail on the head and are quite critical like me which is good!

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Alienange
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:32:16 PM

The grand majority of critics gave Heave Rain 85-100.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 7:54:31 AM

yes, but a few did not.
not to mention most sites gave infamous a 7 even though its one of the best games released this gen!
besides the graphics infamous was nigh on perfect.
the story, character design, level design, the city, everything was near perfect!
if infamous does not deserve a 9, than nothing does!
same goes for R&C ACIT, most sites bagged it for being so similar to the series but WTF did they expect!?
of course R&C is going to be so similar to its predecessors its a famous series, insomniac would have their head bitten off if they changed it!
the clank levels, control of time and space missions, not to mention side missions were not enough change?

R&C ACIT and infamous are 2 of the best games released this gen, yet there 2 of the lower rated games this gen.
not saying a 7 is bad, because its not!
but its no where near what both of those deserve!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:28:29 AM

No, it's really not.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Wissam
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 6:24:27 AM
Reply

Good read. and there are hundreds of stupid gaming sites around the net.and what are you saying is the pure truth. nice job ben.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Axe99
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 7:10:42 AM
Reply

Aye, you're spot on Ben, I sometimes go for a 'wander' away from my four main news sites (here, PS3attitude, Joystiq and IGN - although IGN is a distant fourth), and most of what's out there is rubbish - really badly written articles that, even if they were well written would be pointless and lacking in logic, perspective and often a basic understanding of the facts they're writing about (or the gaming industry in general).

PSX Extreme continues to have high standards, and is my favourite 'read' of my four main sites. Although if we're talking about quality of writing, I should mention there's a tiny grammatical slip in the tenth line ;).

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

frostface
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 7:30:59 AM
Reply

“You should respect each other and refrain from disputes; you should not, like water and oil, repel each other, but should, like milk and water, mingle together.”

-Buddhist Quote

Why I choose to come to this site, to mingle with people who know the meaning of respect and journalists that reward that respect with unbiased commentary. Anything else is not worthy of my time.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Qubex
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 9:08:40 AM

That is a great quote FrostFace... and true too. Yes, I do feel similarly...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

JackC8
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 7:35:38 AM
Reply

Print journalism is just as guilty of infusing opinion into stories as anyone else. Good grief, just look at the whole Helen Thomas mess if you want an example.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Alienange
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:02:38 AM
Reply

Internet journalism is the evolution of print journalism. Survival of the fittest, right? If print is being outdone by the internet, and the internet is awash with opinionated "journalistic" writing, then by gum, it MUST be better than what's in print.

Friggin' evolution explains everything.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:12:20 PM

Evolution or devolution? I'm not sure that print journalism has evolved is the likes of Destructoid and Kotaku care examples of Internet journalism. Devolved perhaps.

Evolution was supposed to be about the survival of the fittest. The trouble is that just as in nature a form of life that is in fact 'fitter' could become extinct because of encroachment on their habitat by others. As a *perfect* example, look at the introduction of Kudzu in the South of the US. This horrid vine/weed arrived in the US as an ornamental plant prize because of it's sweet smelling blooms. It was initially thought that fast growing kudzu would be a great forage plant and help prevent soil erosion. However, as it began to grow and spread, it became clear that Kudzu was in fact a threat to the entire region. A kudzu vine can grow anything up to 60 feet in a year and will grow over anything it touches, trees, power poles, fences, everything. It's been found that certain herbicides actually promote Kudzu's growth while most others have little effect on it. Kudzu now is recognized as a threat to the landscape and habitats of the southern US. When Kudzu takes hold of an area, it smothers all other play life. and provides very little in return other than a green blanket of cover.

When you consider the Eye of Moron, and the wave of negative, classless, thoughtless, hatred that has swept across a lot of the Net. Even carrying previously respectable journalism away with it. Then you can see the parallel between Kudzu and the phenomenon on the 'Net. Just like the real kudzu there is very little that can stop it and many attempts to weaken it actually strengthen it since it thrives on conflict.

The Eye of Moron is dangerous.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dante399
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:16:39 AM
Reply

I believe that the Internet is still in its infancy, and, this is just a normal phase; it may be called the reign of adolescence. The evolution of communication in this era is just the start of what life will be in the future. I believe the problem in the video gaming world is that most of the gamers are actually teenagers, therefore the level of awareness and intelligence is naturally low. This is with the absence of adults who play video games -there are many but cannot compete with the majority of adolescence- this is true at least in this age. However, I think that those teenage gamers will be tomorrow's adults, they will rule the Internet in the future and they will have bigger minds and deeper thinking. They will grow up just like the Internet will. Knowledge is cherished by many countries around the world nowadays and its fruits will soon ripe.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:30:52 AM
Reply

Thanks for the all the support everyone. We appreciate you more than you appreciate us, believe it or not. :)

I've been just a little bitter lately, that's all. I suppose the solace comes by knowing if you place this article at most any other website, the comments section would look like kids laughing at something intelligent adult said; then they'd all run off and mock you while trading baseball cards and gum.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Alienange
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:58:01 AM

Wow. I don't know... I think there's quite a large number here who REALLY appreciate you Ben. If you appreciate them MORE than that... well, that's definitely saying something.

And hey, we all get bitter once in a while.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

fluffer nutter
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 11:02:39 AM

Especially if you're canadian. Nyuk! Nyuk! Nyuk!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

frostface
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 11:33:30 AM

@ Ben...Dude, PSX forms like Voltron and you just happen to be the head! :)

Last edited by frostface on 7/24/2010 11:33:51 AM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Scarecrow
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 11:39:31 AM

Thank you Ben

A lot of us do respect the effort psxe puts into their articles. It's all genuine.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:13:12 PM


Respect.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Fane1024
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 10:51:56 AM
Reply

I used to visit nearly a dozen sites on a regular basis, including IGN, GameSpot, GameSpy, GamePro, and PS Fanboy/Joystiq, mainly because I wanted different opinions when it came to game reviews.

That number has now dwindled to one, as I became frustrated with the bias and idiocy present on the other sites...and that was before most of those sites even added comment sections.

I still occassionally check other review scores and I listen to some other sites' podcasts for the entertainment value, but I get all my news right here.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

CharlesD
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:25:08 PM
Reply

One of the things that makes this site great is not only the honest opinions and accurate review scores, but the community involved. Most other sites seem to have the requirement of being a moron to post a comment or talk in the forums.. god forbid intelligent conversation..

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ergi
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:25:34 PM
Reply

Great article, this is one of the many reasons I love this site. I know it's hard to remain hopefull that things will improve, but as long as PSX keeps up the good work I am satisfied.


Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 12:36:19 PM
Reply

I'd love to see some links at the end of this article, as examples of what you refer to. It must be said that I do not read a *lot* of other gamer sites but of those I do read I've yet to encounter anything even remotely on the level of the average internet craptalk-teen...?

Edit: When I think about it I don't wanna see these "journalists" scribblings anyways. I prefer to keep living happy unknowingly. :)

Last edited by Beamboom on 7/24/2010 12:57:18 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:07:31 PM

Trust me. Ignorance is bliss.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 2:59:34 PM
Reply

Late to the discussion as always.. but this place really is special Ben. I don't always agree with some the reviews, but as a whole this website is a perfect place for Playstation adults to come and visit.

I enjoy reading all the articles, reader comments, and posting along the way. This place has an intelligence vibe going on, and I love not seeing the trash articles written here.

This place really is without peer guys.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Fishdude
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 3:36:25 PM
Reply

First off, I've been visiting this site for a long time and I generally enjoy the articles you post.

I know I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but I can't help but think it needs to be said. I won't name any names (because you know very well who I mean), but I've seen editors at other sites say similar things about what you write.

I understand this is a playstation website with a degree of loyalty to the brand, that's why I come here, but whenever I read articles like this my heart dies a little inside. Every now and then, in between most of the insightful editorials and articles you write, you'll write something like this that is a little hypocritical. You're well known to write with a Sony bias. The only difference between a fanboy and you is the amount of effort and cordiality you put into your writing. You don't openly bash other systems, instead you claim to be impartial and that what you say (generally regarding PS3 superiority) is merely fact.

Sometimes, I also feel as if you are afraid or unwilling to have a proper discourse, because I've seen insighful comments of dissent to your articles go missing.

Obviously I'll continue to visit this site, but it is a little irksome to think that my favorite editor is a hypocrite.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 7 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 3:46:44 PM

I am not speaking for Ben, but I will speak up for him.

Your statement about Ben is incorrect. For example, in this sites review of Dragon Age Origins, it was recommended that the 360 version be picked up over the PS3 edition. Would a fanboy site do that? No.

Certain facts regarding the PS3 can't be considered disputable. Take Blu Ray. No negative argument can made to dispute it's superiority that is based on logical conclusions. It's as simple as that.

When it comes to logic, that's all I have ever seen him do. It's why this place is my home. It's devoid of the Internet Stupidity that he speaks of in this article.



Last edited by maxpontiac on 7/24/2010 3:52:39 PM

Agree with this comment 8 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

kraygen
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 3:55:54 PM

There's a difference between ppl who disagree with an article that Ben writes, then maturely comment about their feeling and those who disagree and begin spouting foul, abusive, hateful, and lude comments because they don't agree.

I've seen ppl with hateful and aggressive attitudes be removed, but never anyone who was willing to debate in a mature manner.

I think Ben does what he can to keep the material here unbiased and fair. The ps3 is a better machine, it's not fanboyism it's fact. Calling Ben biased for speaking truth doesn't hold much merit.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Fishdude
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:00:29 PM

I don't think he is a mindless fanboy. He won't deny obvious truths, such as certain issues with multiplat games such as Dragon Age. On the other hand, I hate to remind you about the relatively embarrassing psuedo-diatribe he launched towards Edge over Killzone 2.

The thing I primarily take issue with is the rather holier than thou attitude of this article and numerous others (as well as many of the comments). Yes, we all think we are mature, reasonable adults, but do we need to announce it? It shouldn't be necessary. Doing so paints a picture of insecurity. He prefaces these sorts of articles by painting a picture of himself that I don't feel is necessary or entirely true.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 8 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:15:24 PM

First of all, the only messages that disappear are from obvious trolls who sign up, call people idiots, and insult us. There's no "intelligent dissension" involved.

Secondly, I know many editors of many sites. The only ones who have a problem with me are trash. If they DIDN'T have a problem with me, if I were one of their ilk, I'd be depressed.

Thirdly, we all apologized for the Killzone 2 thing from over a year and a half ago, and here's the exact definition of "hypocrisy:" base an entire website and a journalist on one article you choose not to forget, all the while choosing to forget the hundreds - or at this point, thousands - of other articles that go against your own belief. It's also the definition of insecurity; you can't bear to be proven wrong, so you ignore the almost countless pieces of evidence that would rail against your bias belief.

Lastly, the problem with you - and others who want to turn everything personal - is that you somehow believe this article is about me. It wasn't even about PSXE. You didn't even bother to address the entire point of the article, which you know in your heart to be true; you just hate the fact that I said it...me, who you apparently don't like very much. And that's okay. You don't have to.

But don't claim that anything about this article is about me or this site. It's an observation on the state of online journalism and that much is clear to everyone who thinks logically and rationally and doesn't assume that every last journalist has some sort of personal insecurity or vendetta. You know who those people are? The ones I'm complaining about in the article, with the annoying "look at me" syndrome.

Oh, and as for not "announcing it," I would agree with you if we were GameSpot, and this article would immediately be in front of ten million readers. But we're not. So rather than draw attention to ourselves the way other smaller sites do - by being as stupid as humanly possible - we're going to try to separate ourselves by maintaining a different outlook. Yes, it needs to be said. SOMEONE has to say it.

But believe what you will. The only one "holier than thou" in this entire thread right now is you. It's fairly obvious in your tone and attitude that you want to make something personal that isn't. ...standard protocol for trashy forums.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/24/2010 4:18:32 PM

Agree with this comment 12 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:15:41 PM

Ironically, I don't see Ben projecting himself as holier than thou. Since you do, I believe it would be fair to state the problem you have comes down to your own personal issues.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:17:43 PM

@Max,

As I remember it, they also recommended the 360 version of Bayonetta if you had a choice.

In fact if anything I get the feeling that while Ben leans towards Sony and recognizes their products positively, Ben is lamenting the failure of Nintendo to offer meaningful competition, and lamenting Microsoft's inability to participate without trying to buy their way to the top or rip off customers with shoddy products. I generally get the feeling (and I agree with him on this) that the industry would be healthier without the open acrimony between Microsoft and the rest of Gaming, and healthier with three equals competing with each other.

But that's my take.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:24:11 PM

It's all ridiculous. Nobody reads a word of what I write; only titles and the name of the site. Of course we recommended Bayonetta 360. Of course we said the PS3 had a slow start and the launch was abysmal. Of course we've written articles questioning Move.

But it doesn't matter how many I write. It couldn't possibly. If I wrote 100 negative Sony-bashing articles and then wrote 1 positive one, certain idiots would instantaneously discount the 100 as if they never happened and laugh about the 1.

Perhaps this is what makes me bitter. Rampant stupidity, not just for the sake of being stupid, for the sake of immense egoism that is designed to maintain a feeling of superiority and correctness at all times.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:26:58 PM

Highlander -

I actually forgot about that one since I didn't play Bayonetta. I remember the Dragon Age review, and actually went against the PSX review. after seeing them both.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:29:36 PM

Ben,

Nobody? Are you sure? There is a comment section of people here praising you and PSXExtreme *because* of what you write.

Do not let this get to you, this is how the Eye takes it's victims.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:32:19 PM

Agreed Highlander. The writing done on this site by the staff and the readers is why I continue to make this place my home.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:57:19 PM

No Highlander, I know. I can always count on the PSXE community to actually READ. It's the only reason I'd even hazard articles like this; I would never bother at another site.

Don't worry. The Eye won't take me. I continue to hate it with every fiber of my being.

Agree with this comment 9 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Cabalavatar1
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 11:00:05 AM

Ben, you needn't worry too much about most of your readership. It's quite clear that those of us who consistently read this site believe you're nearly above repute. I say nearly because no one is. The fact that you write for PSXE is always going to cast doubt on your journalism; unfortunately, you may have to accept that.

But don't get dismayed or frustrated quite so quickly. Regardless of whatever impression you may receive from outsiders to the site who base an opinion on the name of the site and the title of an article, you write honest reviews. That is why we come here. Recall Modern Warfare 2. This site's review was the most honest out there. And 8.9 was high still in my opinion but lower than most.

I could question your use of semi-colons, but I couldn't question the integrity of your articles.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Fishdude
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:22:03 PM
Reply

Woah, calm down. I never said I didn't like you. If fact, I specifically expressed I was a fan. Defensive much?

You spent a lot of time writing about who I am based off of what, three comments? You are clearly the expert, so from now on I guess I should defer to your opinion.

You didn't appreciate when I apparently made things personal (I was intending to comment solely on the tone of this article, and others like it), so why are you so quick to do the same thing? Are you actually a hyprocrite? I expect more from you.

For one thing, I never based my opinion on a single article. I merely mentioned it as a counter example to the one kraygen provided.

I spent some time mulling over this article, and it comes across as more than just an observation on the state of online journalism. That little "observation" says little more than "we don't do that, we are better". You are patting yourself on the back, whether you realize it or not.

It isn't necessary. You know what I think would help make this the best gaming website ever? Instead of going around announcing your impartiality and denouncing other websites, you should focus on what is important: gaming news, reviews, and editorials.

Maybe patting yourself on the back is a good thing. Its important to support yourself when you are stuck on top of Mount Olympus with nothing but your fellow gods to keep you company.

Chill out man.

Last edited by Fishdude on 7/24/2010 4:30:35 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 8 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:25:58 PM

Nowhere did I insult you. Nowhere did I say anything even remotely aggressive. You didn't bother to read a word of it, you didn't address the points I made, and in all honesty, this post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. For the record, you can't call someone a hypocrite and then say, "oh, but I like you so you can't reproach me for it."

Please, go back from whence you came. As if I didn't know.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Fishdude
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:36:43 PM

Where the heck did I accuse you of insulting me? I was just responding to the way you seemed to understand exactly what I was thinking, which wasn't true. And yes, I can call you a hyprocrite (I do it to people I like all the time), but you are equally capable of responding in kind. I'm not trying to stop you. If you want to prove me wrong, go ahead and do it. There is nothing wrong with properly defending yourself.

Also: there are a lot of points I didn't address because, believe it or not, I agreed with them! I apologize if I wasn't inclined to pat you on the back whilst hastily defending myself.

Last edited by Fishdude on 7/24/2010 4:42:40 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 4:56:03 PM

I already addressed every last one of your points. You chose not to reply and instead said something about "chilling out," as if my response was somehow angry or aggressively driven.

It wasn't, and you need to admit that. If you choose not to reply to my response, that's your business. I've already said everything I needed to say...it's okay if you think I'm a hypocrite but I explained in great detail why I wasn't. I'm only perceived as one if people CHOOSE to ignore my full body of work.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/24/2010 4:58:14 PM

Agree with this comment 6 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 6:19:51 PM

Fishdude, I just want to point out that it's a little difficult to believe you about your loyalty to this site and being an avid reader... Today and this thread is the only time/place you have ever commented on anything at this site... And we can all see that just by clicking your name.

Also, you have to take some ownership of the things you say. In the real professional world, you cannot say something offensive then follow it up with an "I'm not trying to be offensive" statement and expect everything to be ok.

Additionally, I think if you truly did read the comments at this site on a regular basis, it would be painfully obvious to you that while (surprise surprise) a Playstation site might favor Playstation software, this site is fair on a number of instances. I can recall countless times this site has questioned Sony's decision making, cited 360 versions of games the better version (Bayonetta is an example), questioned Move's future popularity, and more!

In the first post you made on this thread (and consequently, this site), everyone who jumped to Ben's defense are very much regular posters and PSXE community members. Many members here are fans of multiple platforms. Some even prefer a system other than Playstation.

But here's the difference... Even though some people regularly disagree either with each other or occasionally with what is written by Ben, those regulars still find not only civil ways of disagreeing, but with substantial thoughts to contribute to the forum. It is RARE for regulars to this site to be at each other's throats, and in fact the only time arguments get ugly, are when people who either have never posted or rarely posted add to the discussion.

Why do you think that is? It's because when people are on the internet, they have limited filters. (There are a number of psychological studies to back this up. Some focused on the usefulness of internet dating, but similar rules can apply here.) People barge onto this site completely unaware of the community within and start screaming at the top of their lungs as if they're the next Martin Luther King Jr.

So in short, I have to agree with Ben and others in that I think you missed the point of this article. Additionally, I would love to encourage you to spend more time on this site reading what the comments section has to say. Sometimes the best parts of these articles are the discussions that ensue. It truly is unlike most every other gaming website out there in that the community within is what gives it it's shape.

Need more evidence? Check out the User Reviews sections. Some wonderful stuff there courtesy of the very same PSXE community I am referring to.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 7:16:22 PM

Our community definitely speaks for itself. We're so unbelievably proud of our regulars.

And the site does continue to grow; not at the rapid insane rate that would occur if we let everyone in, but at an even steady rate that sees only quality members in the ranks.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Axe99
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 6:09:04 PM
Reply

Fishdude, I've been reading almost _every_ article at PSX Extreme for a couple of years now (I know, I should get out more ;)), and I really don't see your point being supported by the facts, so don't be so surprised if you receive negative reactions to your comments.

Particularly if you go calling someone who makes a lot of effort to do a good job of balanced reporting a hypocrite ;).

I read a lot of gaming news on the web, and articles like this are _so_ needed - the percentage of quality to trash is pretty low right now. Indeed, as per Ben's article, I'd reckon it's at an all-time low (I've been gaming since before the internet, so have been around long enough to say this ;)). Suggesting that this article isn't a useful addition to this site's content is going to put you in the minority of people around here, and in my view rightly so.

Further, the whole 'pat themselves on the back' thing is hardly borne out. Sure, there's some recognition that this site doesn't do resort to the usual rubbish (something which even the big sites like IGN and Gamespot do from time-to-time), but the focus is on the state of gaming journalism as a whole, and the reference to PSX Extreme's nature is balanced and reasonable.

Most importantly, Ben entered into a reasoned discussion with you, raising the points you mentioned and countering them (quite well). This type of discussion is great for resolving things - if you really want to make a point, then follow the logic - if yours holds up, you'll see in the end, if it doesn't, well, you get to learn from the experience. But not even engaging in a proper debate/dialectic is just a cop out.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 6:23:15 PM

It's true about the cop out, for sure! That's probably why so many people resort to name calling or debating ad-homonim. I mean, how do you logically counter the comment, "You're a moron" or similar? It's just hurtful and non-productive. It doesn't make the person calling names look like he's smart, intelligent, or raising a good point.... it's just mean and adds nothing to the conversation.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/24/2010 6:23:35 PM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Saturday, July 24, 2010 @ 8:49:00 PM
Reply

Ben,
We may not always see eye to eye on everything here, but I definitely respect you for having your own view on things(unlike some other mindless sheep sites, that enjoy spewing out their own brand of yellow dog "Kibble& bits journalism").

And for that, I'll stand behind you 150 percent!

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Borderline
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 12:31:03 AM
Reply

I'm fairly new to the site and have only posted a few comments. For the reasons all have mentioned quite eloquently, I will keep coming back. I haven't been "flamed" for any comment and I find, unlike most comment sections, that there are valid discussions and/or debates rather than childish name calling. It is a refreshing change from the type of site Ben mentiones in this peice. Great editorial Ben and keep up the great work at PSX extreme.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 12:55:32 AM

Always nice to have new members, especially if they appreciate what we're doing here.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 12:56:40 AM

Thanks for commenting Borderline. It's this comment and those like it that completely validate PSXExtreme's existence and philosophy. Every time I read a comment like this, I know that Bend and his crew are happier, and I know we have to keep up the good work as community members

Welcome.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Cabalavatar1
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 10:50:20 AM
Reply

A number of people have already said something akin to what I'm about to write, but no matter.
I believe we all have a choice in whose reports or editorials or reviews we read. I came to this site first because I read part of a review elsewhere, a review to my mind different from the rest. I came second because it's partial to the PS3, as am I, though with my own skepiticism, much like the journalists here. BUT! I stay here because I firmly believe that Ben and his ilk are some of the best gaming journalists I've read.

It's rare when I read a review that someone goes through it with a sort of literary analysis. As an MA-English student, I truly appreciate this type of thoroughness.

I've read far too many problems with this site's forum, but it's a problem that extends to whichever forums I read online. Here, at least, it's NOT the journalists.

Lastly, and this is mostly for Ben, if he reads it, what you're complaining about with regard to Internet stupidity is just something I think we have to grow accustomed to. I'm not so sure that it's stupidity but immaturity or incivility. For some reason, gamers seem to get so passionate about their games, to the point that they're impelled to quarrel about console stats or how much better one game o' the year game is than another. I know I succumb to this nonsense far too frequently. Other stupidity I can't necessarily account for. Out of all this, bear in mind that videogames (and all of the media that appertains) boil down to money and capitalism, which means that their purpose is to appeal to the widest market in order to make money. So, if gaming journalism is going downhill, it's to my mind less likely the result of the journalism than it is the result of the gamers. Maybe the causality goes the other way too, but idk.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 11:17:03 AM

@Cabalavatar1

I wish it were as simple as that. the Internet Stupidity, immaturity or incivility - aka The Eye Of Moron - is something that is, very unfortunately, NOT unique to gaming. I have seen it in every corner of the Internet I have looked. I used to think it was merely a product of the semi-anonymity that the Internet affords people, but I think it goes beyond that. It's as if all these millions of people are communicating without the benefit of the filters and inhibitions that make civilized like and communication possible. All the immaturity, ignorance, classlessness, hate, anger, pettiness and fear that exists in these minds comes through in a totally unfiltered manner. The thing is I don't think it's accidental, it's willful. It's not a case of these folks being unable to help themselves, far too many actually take joy in being total morons and jerks.

I've seen this kind of behavior on Usenet long before The Internet went truly mass market, I've seen it on forums as wide ranging as NFL fan forums and even collector forums like the ones my wife uses for he doll collecting. Movie forums, tech forums, tech news sites, Amazon reviews, every political and religious forum and the comment sections of every newspaper with an online presence, the list is virtually endless. I dare say that there are angling forums out there where the participants have fanboy wars over the latest reel from Shimano or which lure is best for catching large mouth bass in a lake setting.

Ignorance, hate, fear, immaturity, pettiness and downright nastiness are not limited to fans of video games. Get a group of geeks together and see how easy it is to get them at each other's throats over the relative merits and evils of Windows, Linux and The Mac.

The Eye of Moron is easily the most seductive and dangerous phenomenon of the Internet. and the thing is it's not something that anyone created. It's the product of a group mind like no other. If a brain is a collection of billions of neurons connected together and communicating continuously. The internet is a collection of perhaps a billion individual minds connected together, communicating continuously. The Internet is to some extent a group consciousness. I find it amazingly discouraging that the result of that gestalt is so very negative and angry.

It's funny though, if you react angrily to the Eye of Moron, you do in fact become that which you hate - literally. So the only effective way to combat it and it's influence is to recognize that it's there, and to ignore it as far as possible, maintain a separation from it, and remain as clean as possible from it's presence.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 7:51:52 PM

Cabalavatar: I think Highlander is right. Unfortunately, this type of behavior isn't unique to gaming, and I think it's actually starting to leak into society.

I'd like to think it can be fixed but at this point...

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PS3_Wizard
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 1:49:47 PM
Reply

Man...I am SO sorry I missed this discussion. Now some of you remember me from over 2, going on 3 years ago when I was a regualar everyday commenter and active PSX contributer. At those times I saw about 97% articles from here geared mainly towards gaming news. But as the months passed, more and more editorials that had nothing to do with gaming began to spring up.

And it seems for the last year or so (even though I wasn't commenting anymore, I still read every article except for the month I was locked up), that more and more articles are springing up that has nothing to do with gaming, or is geared toward the poor handling of other sites.

Now going back to me bringing up how long I've been a part of this community, those who remember me MUST know of how much I love the ps3 and this site. But things are turning pretty bad. A primary example is with this fishdude guy. All he tried to do was state what he thought wasn't right with this article, and I SOMEWHAT agreed with some of his post.

@ Ben-
You really need to slow down with editorials like these. We are well aware (because of you reminding us) about how incompetent other gaming journalists are. But u can't dismiss all that fishdude said.

"I understand this is a playstation website with a degree of loyalty to the brand, that's why I come here, but whenever I read articles like this my heart dies a little inside. Every now and then, in between most of the insightful editorials and articles you write, you'll write something like this that is a little hypocritical." -fishdude

Now he clearly said that MOST of your editorials are insightful and highly relevant, as I agree...but lately I've seen many like this. Artiticles geared as an avenue for you to release some steam and and in MY OPINION, to attract some praise for your efforts...much like self-praising hero, except your do it discreetly. For example:
A man calls the news station and all of his neighbors over to farmer Dan's farm, before he attempts to save little Johnny.
Now there is nothing with the fact that he wants to save the kid, but I have a problem with how he wants the praise for doing it.


Now Ben, instead of you calling all of us to give you praise for your undoubtly hard work, you already have a reliable cult following of thousands of community members ready to tell you how much better you are than other sites. And before you and other members of PSX jump down my neck, go toward the top of the comments where a few members were talking about how Tina at 1UP has mindless little drones ready to worship the ground she walks on and defend her like ants do their queen.

Now read from where fishdude comments until now. Do you not see a sort of resemblance? Now I know none of us are as immature and stupid as tina's manslaves, but to a certain degree we do tend to be a little biased towards Ben...whether he's right (for the most part he his) or wrong (I don't thinks he's ever wrong per se, just doesn't uses his gift of writing for all the right reasons every once in awhile.), we all tend to take ALL that he says as the unrefutable truth. Because we all know he is highly literate and educated, we often don't see or ignore his rare miscomings and slip-ups. To me its easily comparable to how Tina has her underlings believe and defend her till the death. Except we do it with a LOT more intelligence.

And concerning this comment Ben wrote:

"But it doesn't matter how many I write. It couldn't possibly. If I wrote 100 negative Sony-bashing articles and then wrote 1 positive one, certain idiots would instantaneously discount the 100 as if they never happened and laugh about the 1."

I have to say that you write FAR more engaging and wonderful comments than you do these questionable ones, which is why I continue to support you and love PSX. But I think what I'm trying to instill in you is to get back to the basics. Go back to what made this site the pennacle of all things gaming and why I never EVER left this site without a smile on my face or more knowledgeable of video games. Tone down on these editorials that point out the flaws of other gaming journalists and their sites. Ignore them! Or if you absolutely can't ignore them, then atleast find a different avenue to vent your fustrations without doing so here. I mean ofcourse its your site and I can't stop you, but it will make us look SO much better.

Sorry if I made any spelling mistakes. Only use my blackberry to post now.


Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 2:26:36 PM

Good thoughts!

The only part I thought differently on was the comment comparing us to Tina's folks and the reference to Fishdude's comments.

I checked out the list of people that came to Ben's defense, (myself included), and I know for a fact that every single one of those people defending him have at some point have disagreed with Ben in the past. The difference is, they disagree in the form of meaningful discussion (as you said), but I really don't believe there's a cult following going on here. That would suggest blind loyalty, but that is hardly the case here. Flutter, Jawknee, myself, Highlander, yourself, Kraygen, WorldEndsWithMe, BikerSaint, MaxPontiac, Alienage.... all of us... have good minds of our own. And I can guarantee you that none of us agree with one another on everything and none of us defend anything Ben says until we've read it ourselves and made our own assessment. Additionally, I can promise you that every one of us have disagree with something at one point or another.

Other than that, though, I agree with most of what you said.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PS3_Wizard
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 3:11:35 PM

All of the names you listed (and a few you didn't) are among some of my favorite community members, including yourself, for all of the insight and brightness you bring to the table day in and day out. And I kno with all my heart that we all have a mind of our own. I was merely trying to bring our behavior to the table.

With the case of fishdude, he was ONLY directing his concern towards Ben, and a totally different member jumped in to his defense before Ben could even say anything. I wouldn't have a problem with this if the fact of the matter was fishdude didn't have a few valid points...if you take the time to think of it.

But there are a few members that I have noticed that do "cockride" a bit too hard, and/or say a few negative things about xbox fans. I've seen xbox fanboys get banned for saying things about the ps3, that some ps3 fans of this site say that I think should atleast be severely warned.

All I ask is that we take the time to read between the lines, and even if someone's opinions conflict with ours, learn to accept the parts that obviously have some meaning to them.

@Ben-

Don't be too mad at me. You still remain one of my favorite journalists. Just wanted to address the only real flaw of this site.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 7:44:14 PM

PS3_Wizard: I'm not mad. But I would like to point something out that essentially invalidates your entire argument.

http://www.psxextreme.com/scripts/misc/spec.asp

This is a list of most all the editorials I've done in the past 3 years and more. There are hundreds. Now, by my count, I think there are exactly three, including this one, that address gaming journalism as a subject. The last one was on February 13. The one before that was November 29 of last year. I can't seem to find any others. Bottom line? I can't "tone down" something that barely exists.

I would like you to scan that list, please. I would like you to read the titles of all those editorials and tell me if there's an abnormal percentage of pieces relating to your apparent "noticing" of more articles written like this one. I'm sorry, but I believe you are a casualty of the most common, very much unrealized trait that afflicts most of us: we only recall the things that stick out most in our minds.

It's what I said above. I've written hundreds of editorials and literally thousands of articles at PSXE. About 99% of them (probably more) are entirely benign. But we forget those, don't we? Look at that list. Do you see how many editorials are there that you likely don't remember? See how Fishdude mentioned the Killzone 2 editorial (which we even apologized for) and never once admitted that the hundreds of other editorials aren't remotely similar?

I'm not mad, man. You should come back, too. But I think the reason you say what you said, and the reason you think members here are quick to defend is because they see things the way they are. I think they get just as annoyed as I do when someone new simply assumes that one editorial is reminiscent of an entire body of work, and the long-time members point that out (as you can see). Do you understand what I'm pointing out here?

Lastly, all the great members of this site have disagreed with me more than a few times. They've even proven me wrong a lot. But they do it in a civil, laid-back way, which is why we so highly value them. Because of this, it's really easy to spot those who are one-track minded when they sign up; with a clear intention of making everything personal, turning everything into a drama, and pushing their own supposed superiority.

You don't qualify and as you've seen in one comment, people here respond well to normal, civilized posts, regardless of the content. They respect you for respecting them. Right? Oh, and for the record, Fishdude wasn't banned. He didn't say anything that was ban-worthy; he simply didn't respond.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/25/2010 7:52:40 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PS3_Wizard
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 2:21:59 AM

Yeah you're right. I recant my argument. But I think you misunderstood what I was indicating. It was the gradual increase in non gaming editorial, as I've stated at the beginning of my first post on this subject.

"At those times I saw about 97% articles from here geared mainly towards gaming news. But as the months passed, more and more editorials that had nothing to do with gaming began to spring up. "

But it my fault for being so brief about what I was referring to. All I've been using to post lately is my blackberry and its a bit of a pain being painstakingly specific, haha! My thumbs were killing me these last few posts.

Ofcourse a few non gaming editorials are great (really helps to break up the monotony). As long as they aren't TOO frequent and on subjects as touchy as this one. Because not only will trolls come lurking, but the vast denizens and supporters of rival gaming communities might catch wind and come start drama.

Oh. And I know you didn't ban fishdude, where did u get that from benjamin button?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 10:19:55 AM

Actually, that last comment about Fishdude wasn't directed at you but to anyone who might think we ban people just because they disagree with us.

But I do understand what you're saying, and I have written a few more editorials lately that aren't expressly related to the games themselves. All I can argue in my defense is a lack of new ideas...sometimes, I just can't think of anything new to write. Think about how long I've been doing it and about how many different topics I've already discussed. ...kinda tough to always be fresh, you know?

But trust me, I hate the trolls and useless lurkers just as much as anyone else here, and we DO have to keep the focus squarely on gaming, so don't worry. As you can see by that Feature list, we will keep the focus where it needs to be. :)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 11:07:33 AM

I've only been a consistent poster in the last half hear or more or so. But I'm sure if Ben checked the records, you could see I've been a subscribing member for a couple years. I used to just wait for the weekly newsletter and read the stuff that showed up on that. Now I'm a bit more active.

Anyways, I typically find it's late spring to summer that we're less likely to see video game centered news for the sole reason that this is not typically the time of year we see lots of great titles. March and holiday season are the most frequent times we see good games. Sometimes in September too.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PS3_Wizard
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 2:41:58 PM

Oh I can understand where you're coming from. I can't imagine how hard it must be trying to come up with different topics everyday Benjamin Button. Especially during these slow summer months.

But I must say...I did enjoy those articles you wrote about those dates you went almost a year ago. My idea is for you to include more editorials like that, giving us a PSX an inside look at your life (or special events that happened in your past). Just as long as it isn't TOO intimate.

I know you already made a "get to know arnold and benjamin button" article. But maybe you can give us a look at other stuff that's been happening?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, July 27, 2010 @ 12:29:52 AM

Those editorials didn't seem to be popular; there were a vocal minority against them.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 4:41:37 PM
Reply

Glad to be a part of this community :)

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

kraygen
Sunday, July 25, 2010 @ 11:51:34 PM

Me too and I think Ben's a great writer, but I'll still disagree with him about Just Cause 2 until he changes his mind.

It might not be the best made game and the story sucks for sure, but it's gotta be one of the most fun games to come out this year.

I just felt like jibing him on that one. ;)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 12:03:00 AM

I like some semi-broken games that are still super fun...Just Cause 2 is just TOO broken, IMO. ;)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

JDC80
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 12:25:01 AM
Reply

The only real gaming sites are go to is PSX, the PS3 section over at Gamespot and the video walkthrough over on IGN. But when I want to know what's coming down the pipe for the PS3 I come here and another perk about this site I get to see what other PS3 fans think(plus I get a kick of the avatars).

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Robochic
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 2:02:32 AM
Reply

This site is and always will be the only place I read and get my info on all gaming :) community is amazing as well..

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

snypa_69
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 8:09:24 AM
Reply

Yo dudes!! I'm pretty new to the site. This is my 3rd comment I think. I joined this community because it seems that everyone has a decent opinion of things. But i gotta say one thing there is a hell of a lot of "man love" flying about over this post!! Get a room!! lol.

Last edited by snypa_69 on 7/26/2010 8:09:56 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Highlander
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 10:56:54 AM

Ironic considering the comment directly above yours....

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 10:57:35 AM

Insecure, much? lol

I'm married (to a woman... I am in Canada, afterall). I'll dish out as much bro-love as I want. lol ^.^

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

snypa_69
Tuesday, July 27, 2010 @ 4:13:33 AM

Not insecure Underdog, was just trying to lighten the situation :-) Nothing wrong with a bit of a bromance!! lolz.
Highlander ("there can be only one") Just wondering where the irony was?I may be being stupid but just cos someone is chic doesnt mean they are a "chick". I prefer the term "bird" anyways! ;-)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Tuesday, July 27, 2010 @ 9:11:30 AM

A little off topic, but related to bromance, there's a really awesome vid on YouTube where someone does a spoof on Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance" and the spoof is entitled "Rad Bromance". It's flipping hilarious.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

SirLoin of Beef
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 11:34:51 AM
Reply

Though the 360 is my console of choice*, this site is my favorite of game-related news because of the steps the admins take in keeping trolls and such out as well as the numerous articles about my favorite hobby, playing video games. Heck, the community's pretty good too, though there are some I disagree with pretty much all of the time.

(* By "console of choice", I don't mean to imply I think the 360's a better machine. It's just the one I play most of my games on. I'm quite happy with my PS3 and all the cool things it does besides having some pretty stellar games.)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

cr67
Monday, July 26, 2010 @ 11:49:29 AM
Reply

I'm a little late to reply but I felt I had to put my 2 cents in. I thoroughly enjoyed this article, as I do most of Bens work. You absolutely nailed it on this one Ben.
At 43y/o, I'm not the avid gamer I once was due to work, family, etc. But this is the one site I know I can come, to read great articles and get excellent reviews, while not having to deal with all the ignorant fanboys and flame wars that exist on so many other sites.
I remember back in the days of the internets true infancy, logging on using a 4800 dial up when the internet was mostly text. I would frequent the CompuServ message boards and chatrooms and have intelligent conversations with intelligent people. The internet back then wasn't over-run with adolesents and lonely old men with nothing better to do than bad mouth someone they don't know while hiding behind their monitors. I've watched over the years as the internet has grown and it's become increasingly difficult to have an intelligent discussion on ANY site whether it be a gaming, political, news or even food sites.
This is one of maybe a dozen sites I frequent on a regular basis. And while I don't post that often, I continue to come back because of the great writing, editorials and reviews that Ben and the rest of the staff here at PSX offer. Keep up the good work Ben! There are those of us out here that still appreciate great writing and intelligent conversation.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Leave a Comment

Please login or register to leave a comment.

Our Poll

What do you think of the Destiny beta?
It's awesome! Can't wait for September!
It's only good, but I'm having fun.
Eh, it's okay, but I expected more.
It sucks, period.

Previous Poll Results