Ben's Week In Review: August 1
Deus Ex: Human RevolutionWell, Monday is my birthday but...well, you stop looking forward to birthdays after 30. ;)
Deus Ex: Human Revolution not getting enough respect
Granted, we haven't seen any gameplay just yet and one can argue the series has only gone downhill since the original became a big-time phenomenon on the PC. But I've very much enjoyed all my Deus Ex experiences and the upcoming Human Revolution looks and sounds fantastic. It's great to hear the developers are holding tight to the "core values" that made this franchise so damn good to begin with. I must also refer you back to the debut trailer that really got me psyched. Yes, we most certainly need gameplay footage before we can pass further judgment but the concept alone is enough for me to be very, very excited. Many have likely forgotten the days when the name "Deus Ex" immediately evoked a smile and a "man, that game was awesome" reflection, or if they haven't forgotten, the feeling has faded.
I accept that. But while there are plenty of potential masterpieces slated for 2011, you really shouldn't ignore Human Revolution. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it ended up being one of the best games of next year.
L.A. Noire has a lot to live up to
I only say this because we've waited quite a long time, and Team Bondi has been making some fairly bold claims in 2010. Most recently, we've heard more about the Motion Scan technology they're utilizing for L.A. Noire, and it sounds pretty damn impressive. The part that struck me is the interrogation aspect of the gameplay; the fact that Motion Scan will allow you to read the "tells" of a suspect to see if they might be lying. How cool is that? We all know what Heavy Rain has done for the industry and if the developers do their jobs correctly, L.A. Noire might be another step in the realm of interactive story-telling. Obviously, it won't embrace the revolutionary "no game over" philosophy in Quantic Dream's game, but the more designers can immerse their audience in the virtual experience, the better off we'll be. I still have my reservations for Team Bondi and this game here, but it could very well be excellent. And maybe, just maybe, something special...
Personal gaming update
I finally started playing Super Mario Galaxy 2. I might do an article when I'm finally done with it (or far enough along where I can make an accurate assessment) but for now, let me just say this- firstly, as I don't own a Wii and I'm really only used to playing the best of the best, I didn't realize how spoiled I was - visually - until I started SMG2. I mean, I was expecting like Joe Danger quality in terms of HD color and style. But I sort of forgot the Wii isn't much more than the GameCube. So that was sort of jarring. But anyway, I got involved in the game and it works out well; I like it a lot, and the endless imagination of the developers is what stands out. You just never feel as if you're doing the same thing twice. That's absolutely great; I love continuing freshness and creativity.
...I guess I just don't get how it's a 10 or even a 9+ game. I mean, I'm sure it is, provided we're only counting the Wii's library. But if I have to compare this to Uncharted 2, MGS4, Heavy Rain, Killzone 2, Gears 2, God of War III, etc...I mean, you can't even make that comparison, IMO. It's like one set consists of games from today and the other is a freshly styled version of the way video games were 15 years ago. And that's not necessarily a bad thing, either. I just think it needs to be said.
Might get Alan Wake for my birthday. If I do, I'll have to put SMG2 on hold to play it...don't hold it against me if I don't back to SMG2. ;) I probably will, though.
7/31/2010 Ben Dutka
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Comments (88 posts)
fluffer nutter
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:04:15 PM
I kid! I kid!
0 up, 1 down
TEG3SH
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:11:55 PM
0 up, 1 down
Akuma07
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 3:29:40 AM
Check out Resident Evil 0 and 1 on gamecube. They were fantastic!!!
Plus MGS: Twin Snakes (the gamecube remake of MGS1), looks nearly identical, possibly better than MGS2 and MGS3.
0 up, 1 down
Lawless SXE
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 9:55:13 PM
Reply
I am very much looking forward to LA Noire, as I have stated in the past, and the MotionScan tech does indeed sound sweet, but it has to be up to the player to be good at reading people. If they aren't well, I don't think they'll get the same WOW factor from it.
Human Revolution also seems very interesting. I haven't played any of the earlier games, but reading about how Bioshock is similar to Deus Ex, and what I've heard about the customisation systems and the ability to play through the game without killing anyone, it's got me interested. I wouldn't discount this games ability to push the envelope and continue down the path that we have started to see with Heavy Rain, and L.A. Noire. I hope to see more games announced that make use of a solid, engaging storyline that makes you care about a character, and doesn't necessarily ask you to kill a couple of hundred people between intensely emotional cutscenes.
Personal Update:
Well, I wrote all of about two hundred words this week. Really annoys me when I run out of inspiration to finish off a scene. I'll get there sooner or later.
Didn't read much either, everyone at work was too excited for Friday night, which sucked. Yeah, I've only been reading on my lunchbreaks at work. Makes for very slow progress.
I still haven't gotten around to finishing Valkyria Chronicles. I'm on the last chapter though, and hope to have it finished sometime tonight... or this week.
Happy birthday Ben, and peace to one and all.
1 up, 1 down
TEG3SH
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 9:56:07 PM
Reply
2 up, 7 down
NeoHumpty
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:09:13 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
TEG3SH
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:23:00 PM
3 up, 3 down
Pandacastro
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:49:32 PM
1 up, 1 down
TEG3SH
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 12:16:19 AM
Last edited by TEG3SH on 8/1/2010 12:20:09 AM
2 up, 5 down
fluffer nutter
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 12:40:09 PM
6 up, 1 down
Pandacastro
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:58:44 PM
1 up, 0 down
Scarecrow
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:21:19 PM
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With only GOWIII standing up to it and inevitably GT5
1 up, 7 down
TEG3SH
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:35:48 PM
2 up, 7 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:43:49 PM
Look, it's a great game. ...for the Wii.
11 up, 2 down
Temjin001
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:34:37 PM
Reply
In regards to Ben's comments on SMG2. I've often thought about how games are, or should, be measured. I've noticed on more than one occasion where Ben suggests certain games, usually Wii games, can not by compared to many of PS3's heavyweights. From what I can perceive, this is inherently due to the lack of the Wii's hardware abilities. As suggested in the editorial above, SMG2 lacks the kind of assets that would define the PS3's standards. Are the very best Wii games always going to be inferior to the very best PS3 games?
A few questions of mine arise from this:
How should games be measured?
What are the tangible qualities that define a game?
And what would be a good grading rubric for games?
The popular argument is that gameplay matters most.
If I were take God of War 3 and strip it down to work on PS2 hardware, how much about the game would be forced to change due to hardware constraints?
The graphics, sound, and vastness of some locations would obviously be slimmed down, but couldn't the bulk of the game-play still be preserved?
Assuming that it can, does God of War 3 have any right to obtain a GotY award if it's essentially a more visually impressive version of it's predecessors? Has anything about the gaming experience really changed outside of it's higher fidelity?
If SMBG2 had an HD-facelift would it become eligible to set among PS3's finest?
Maybe some of you believe it does.
Is there something else at play?
I'm curious to observe peoples' thoughts on this.
3 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 10:49:48 PM
For your God of War question, while the gameplay could indeed be retained if you stripped off the glossy veneer, you would lose part of the experience. As much as the Wii crowd wants to say graphics don't matter, the realistic have to face up to facts. What we are interacting with is moving pictures in front of us; the more we believe in those pictures, the better our experience will invariably be.
Furthermore, it requires extra hardware power to pull off certain gameplay mechanics as well. Certain boss fights in GoWIII might look amazing, but the team at Santa Monica will say that they require the sheer PS3 power to make them PLAY the way they do. If they could've done something like the Colossus fights in GoWII on the PS2, they would have.
And no, if SMBG2 was in HD, I still wouldn't say it's elite level. These days, the elite includes things like professional voice acting, professional orchestras and licensed music contributing to soundtracks, extra mechanical depth, storyline/plot construction, script writing, character development, etc. Now, how much of that is even IN SMG2?
The bottom line is that when I sit down to review RDR, I have to consider about a dozen MAJOR features that simply aren't in SMG2 or other Wii games. It's really like comparing "now" to "then."
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/31/2010 10:51:41 PM
5 up, 0 down
SvenMD
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:03:08 PM
My answer - NO
As someone who owns a Wii and has played both SMG 1 & 2; I can say that the game is HIGHLY repetitive. Sure the levels change, but the goal is still the same as it was 20 years ago...get to the end of the level and get a star.
Games today on the PS3 have MANY different facets of development; graphics, gameplay, story, level design, character development, immersion, replay value....among others.
We said that SMG2 has great level design...I wont deny that...some of the levels are just ingenius with the inverted worlds or the play on gravity. But as Ben said...the graphics on the Wii are barely better than they were on the gamecube. And to me that does distract from the game slightly when the other games I'm playing are Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2.
As for gameplay...most of the time it's good, but at times it can be complete crap and feel totaly unresponsive. They do this thing where Mario doesn't immediately start running when you move the stick...he has to kinda "gain momentum" and it really just feels like he's glued to the ground.
As for story...there is none. Save the Princess. We talk about crappy stories in games...well this has to be not only the worst, but the most OVERUSED story in VG history. And to say that you should even be considered for GOTY when that's all you're bringing to the table....Hell no.
The game does have high production values for a Wii game. It is developed well, and it hits the mark on everything that it set out to do. So if running through some interestingly designed and colorful levels collecting stars is your cup o' tea then this game is for you. But looking at the game compared to everything else on the market....
Graphics - sub-par
Gameplay - adequate
Story - non-existant
Level design - top-notch
Character development - none; in fact if you somehow didn't know who Mario was, you sure wouldn't at the end of the game.
Immersion - Ha...I not once felt like I was a plumber
Replay Value - Considering the whole game is a repeat of SMG 1, I guess they get a little credit....but I will NOT go back to get the comet stars.
So it's a great game by Wii standards, but could it ever contend for GOTY among the PS3 finest?
Not in my book...not EVER.
EDIT: DAMMIT Ben, you beat me to it while I was typing...
Last edited by SvenMD on 7/31/2010 11:04:45 PM
4 up, 2 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:20:16 PM
3 up, 0 down
Temjin001
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:48:12 PM
SvenMD, I identify with many of your points.
But what about those games that don't attribute themselves to cinematic story telling?
Gran Turismo, online FPS, Madden and fighters (Street Fighter etc) etc are very sophisticated, yet, none contain many of those elements that a RDR, or other story-telling games, would have, or would need to. Is a story narrative crucial to the quality of a game? I would say that Gran Turismo doesn't need a story, and I'd probably be bothered by it if it tried (reflects on RR: Revolution)
To pick on Street Fighter (or insert any fighting game), it's story can be thrown away (I imagine stories are there to placate those who want a little more substance than just the complex fighting), completely optional to what motivates it's core players.
Even without their current-gen facelift, fighters have evolved quite minimally, especially Street Fighter.
From this site, the game still reviewed a 9.4 from John Sheppard (thee John Sheppard?! =p.. sorry)
I would imagine, in this case, the score represents the genre, not the gaming platform.
I'm beginning to think that relativity should be confined within the genre. Like Ben mentioned above, what is relative is all we can go on. But if that's so. Ratchet aside (I think it's more like 50/50 shooter/platformer) wouldn't Mario be the "best" pure platformer on the market? I can't think of another game in it's genre that really compares.
1 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 12:47:58 AM
As for the others, they don't have as many elements as the other games; sports/racing games and fighting games are always pretty straightforward. But even so, better hardware allows developers to do far more things; the Wii hardware wouldn't allow for Gran Turismo 5 or SFIV, regardless of the fact that the genres haven't changed much. What HAS changed is what the categories of games are capable of and again, that's due to hardware capability.
I just don't think the Wii should be compared to the PS3 and 360; the overall experiences are too crazy different.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 8/1/2010 12:49:26 AM
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Highlander
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 1:19:20 AM
There are currently 4 video game platforms of note, in no particular order they are;
HD gaming (360/PS3)
SD gaming (Wii/PS2)
Handheld console (DS/PSP)
Multi-function device (iPhone, Android phones)
PCs really are not part of this discussion, with the exception of a few 360/PC titles, the PC gaming market doesn't intersect with console gaming.
So there are four platforms. The point is that you cannot compare the games of one platform against the games of another platform with any degree of equivalence.
A typical iPhone game is not in any way comparable to Peace Walker, Chains of Olympus, LBP, GT, Soul Calibur, or any of the other PSP experiences you can have. The devices are too different, and intended for two different purposes. You can't do a direct comparison with the sole exception of older games that have been ported or are running inside an emulator. But really, are these the kinds of cutting edge games that we want?
The DS/PSP comparison is difficult too, because Nintendo persisted with a very inferior hardware platform. However even with the disadvantages it has the DS manages to keep going, OK it won't have a game like Peace walker or Chains of Olympus, but it does do very many games that only a dedicated handheld gaming device like the PSP and DS can do.
With home consoles, again it's nearly impossible to compare games on the SD platform. The graphics are just too different, and as several people have pointed out, it's not just the graphics, the entire game is missing elements because the hardware is simply not there. So there's no point comparing the version of Madden on the Wii/PS2 against the one on the 360 or PS3, they're just completely different games now.
As for the HD platform, the fact that the 360 is saddled with DVD instead of havig BluRay causes some issues, but fundamentally speaking both the 360 and PS3 are roughly equivalent in terms of mainstream 720p games. Both consoles can do things that no other console can, so games contain richer experiences that are only possible on these elite consoles.
But instead of openly talking about gaming in terms of this market segmentation, the industry and media continue to spin it as if Wii is totally on par with the 360/PS3. It's not and it can't be. I don't care how good the new Mario game is, there have been something like 18 trillion predecessors, so you'd have to hope tha by now the game mechanics, design, characters and sounds have been nailed at the level of perfection. At the end of the day, it could be the very best Mario game, but it is what it is, they best Mario game running on an SD platform. You can't compare it directly with stellar games on the PS3 or 360, it doesn't stand up at all. If the latest Mario had been done on the 360/PS3 then it could be so much more. OK, perhaps it wouldn't be, perhaps it would simply up-res in which case I'd have to hope that it would get shredded by the reviewers for being lazy.
But we have to start seeing and recognizing the segmentation of the gaming market. Gaming is so much bigger than it used to be 5, 10 or 20 years ago. The single market view of 20 years ago doesn't work now. Not only is there platform segmentation, but there is genre and demographic segmentation to consider too.
Until the industry, the media and we consumers start thinking about gaming that way, we are doomed to false comparisons of games, poorly targeted games and games written for the wrong demographic of gamer for the genre in question.
We have to become more sophisticated, or the gaming market will undergo a contraction of sorts. hen again, that might not be a bad thing, it might concentrate a few minds.
4 up, 1 down
Temjin001
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 1:27:07 AM
I suppose, for me, my core values for gaming is rooted differently. For example, I think Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 is a better playing game than God of War 3 ( I love both games). When it comes down to the precision and the sort of elements that defines it's play, NGS2 will always be my pick.
Even if GoW3 bests in graphics, epic'ness, story etc.
Perhaps that's the difference between favorite games and best games... but anyway, I'll ponder this more some other time.
2 up, 0 down
Temjin001
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:18:28 AM
For the record, I play very few Wii games. I started Metroid 3, and despite it being good, I just didn't want to keep playing it. I started Mario Galaxies and stopped playing it some ways in.. maybe 2/3s. Outside of some group games (Guitar Band, Mario Kart), that's about it. Well, actually, I played like an hour of the Twilight Princess... the wretched, oh, so wretched visuals I just couldn't tolerate. And I've observed some of SMBG2 in play and I was able to recognize many of the series trademark creativeness and excellence in design that is characteristic of the games.
The whole purpose behind my original post was not to defend the Wii and Mario Galaxy 2. Hence, my analogy of digressing GoW3 onto PS2. Rather, to delineate the elements that makes gaming great. If GoW3 scaled itself back, hypothetically, to PS2's abilities how would the game measure then? And when observing games like Sf4, with enough down-scaling, the gameplay can be captured similarly. Just look at SF3, for example. (Please don't get hung up on the specificity of this statement).
Rather, I'm coming to understand the motives of gamers and what interests them in play and the sort of criteria that gives cause for praise. I believe I've come to know Ben's values well enough.
In discussions with others I find varying perspectives on the matter of great games. It's interesting hearing people's "bests" in gaming. Just look at the varying GotY awards that are doled out each year.
Something that I can sustain is that gaming is a broad, broad road of entertainment that motivates and intrigues a wide variety of people. Thankfully, I've come to know what I value most from the games I choose to engage in.
2 up, 0 down
Shams
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 3:43:26 AM
But Temjin brought up an interesting point with his GOW3 and NGS2 comparison. While both are HD, one game sports production values comparable to something out of Hollywood, while the other clearly doesn't, but has a stronger emphasis on action and core gameplay.
Personally, I found while GOW3 was more of an exciting experience the first playthrough, I found myself spending many more hours addicted to NGS2 (roughtly 130 hours vs 30 hours), and that's just counting the sp modes. And I'm still playing it!
Ben has said he isn't particularly the most diehard fan of the hack'n slash variety of games, so it makes sense that he'd be more impressed by GOW3's total package than, say, the intense challenge and action that is to be found in NGS2. But what is weird, is that I, as an apparent fan of the hack'n slash, and not particularly the biggest fan of shooters, have enjoyed and been enjoying Uncharted 2 more so than either game. And I enjoyed it more than a game like Heavy Rain which arguably has raised the bar in production-values higher than any game before it.
So what does this mean to me? It's a tender balance. While games are ultimately about gameplay, other element such as story, production values, music, graphics and sound are becoming increasingly non-peripheral just as the technology and our appetites are growing for them. Uncharted 2 is an example that does everything in proper proportion which why it epitomizes gaming to me. Having said that, I am still having a wicked goodtime with Demon's Souls. Having all these games (and many other personal favorites of mine like Wipeout, Ratchet, inFamous, LBP, GTA4, MotorStorms, and soon GT5) is why PS3 is the one-stop place for all my gaming needs. I don't need a PC, 360, or a Wii, because I have too much on my plate as it is, and unfortunately more than I'll ever get too fully ingest.
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JackC8
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 6:56:39 AM
3 up, 0 down
Temjin001
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:59:18 PM
Yes, even ninja's need to repent of their sins =)
Thanks for your input Master Shams.
Mario is closer to Ratchet than Echochrome. It's the heavy shooter element of Ratchet that distinguishes itself most significantly from Mario. (I haven't played Braid)
I like the curious observation you pose by contrasting your preference of NGS2 to GoW3, yet, you prefer Uncharted 2 to either of them.
It's the game mechanic that drew the hours into NGS2 despite the superior production quality of GoW3. Yet, in Uncharted 2's case, it has trumped both games.
Often times I find myself observing games from the critic in me and then also the gamer in me. The critic must take into account the gaming conventions that represent their perception of greatness independent from personal preference. Hence, the term being objective. A checklist of criteria must be evaluated including the influence of less tangible qualities that may be weighed in as well.
Whereas, the gamer cares little for what the software is doing to evolve the understanding, or boundaries, that define gaming entertainment. This gamer simply indulges in the joy they obtain from engaging in a given title. Whether it's the detail of combat action, or aesthetic vibe a game generates, the gamer indulges in their appetite for it.
An example of this is found in online shooters. Tactical competitiveness is very attractive amongst the online CoD and Halo folk.
1 up, 0 down
Axe99
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 5:24:38 PM
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spiderboi
Monday, August 02, 2010 @ 10:49:11 AM
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TEG3SH
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:02:03 PM
Reply
3 up, 5 down
Pandacastro
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:14:40 PM
6 up, 1 down
tes37
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 5:48:56 AM
4 up, 1 down
Pandacastro
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:20:04 PM
Reply
Go to: XMB [PS3's Menu] from there go to > settings > accessory settings > audio device settings > input device > press the triangle button > settings > set echo canceller. Now, follow the instructions on screen.
Does anyone know what it does?
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:20:59 PM
8 up, 0 down
Pandacastro
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:47:33 PM
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Highlander
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 1:22:04 AM
Funnily enough, I googled PS3 echo cancellation and the first hit was an article from PSXExtreme.
http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/5753.html
0 up, 0 down
JackC8
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 7:06:39 AM
2 up, 0 down
kraygen
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 11:29:51 PM
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@ Ben
I was doing some internet searching and I was wondering why no news on Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2? The first one was a ps3 exclusive and it seems you guys didn't review it and now the second one comes out late september and I have seen no news about it here.
I know it wasn't uber popular, but that is sad because it's my favorite fighting game this gen. Even if you don't know anything about naruto the fighting in it is super fast paced and awesome.
Sadly it seems the 2nd one is on 360, but as long as the ps3 version is still in HD it shouldn't effect the gameplay.
Anyway, I'm playing Star ocean first departure right now, it's pretty good. Only about 10 hours in and there is so much to figure out with this game, combats pretty easy tho.
0 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 12:48:46 AM
0 up, 2 down
kraygen
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 6:49:01 PM
I have high hopes for the second one as well. As long as the kept the fighting the same, but added some new characters and new abilities I'll love it for sure.
The first one's story was pretty much the same as the beginning of the naruto manga and it looks as tho the second one will have to do with Shippuden.
I'm not a big fan of fighting games, but Ultimate ninja storm was a blast.
Edit: I'd also like to add that it's metacritic score was a 75 which is pretty good for a fighting game and it's user score was a 9.0
Last edited by kraygen on 8/1/2010 6:50:43 PM
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Highlander
Monday, August 02, 2010 @ 9:37:24 AM
1 up, 0 down
hellish_devil
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 12:38:30 AM
Reply
Last edited by hellish_devil on 8/1/2010 12:39:10 AM
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Temjin001
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 1:48:43 AM
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WolfCrimson
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:46:03 AM
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hellish_devil
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 9:18:10 AM
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CharlesD
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 12:39:38 AM
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Anyways, I am very very interested in Dues Ex Human Revolution and agree that it may very well turn out to be one of the best games of next year. Looking forward to the experience as I have not played other Dues Ex games and from what I've seen from the trailers the concept and potential feel of this game could be quite new and exhilarating for the PS3
3 up, 1 down
Kowhoho
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:00:17 AM
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Lawless SXE
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:38:45 AM
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I'm probably a bit out of my league here, but I think that what should account for the highest fraction of an overall review score is how much fun it is. That is the barest essential of gaming, and yet it seems to be oft forgotten. A game can have ridiculously good technicals, it can have photorealistic graphics, it can have true sound and it can have a story on par with the greatest novels ever written, or the greatest lives ever lived, but if it isn't fun, then what is the point of the game?
Okay, I understand that these other factors must be taken into consideration in the modern day given how far video gaming has advanced from its humble origins. However, looking at other entertainment mediums, they are still looked at in the same way they were before. Sure, you can argue that they haven't needed to evolve, and get more complex as games have, but that's a moot point, because gaming requires evolution to keep up with modern standards, which music and movies have not, aside from the proliferation of certain genres in certain time periods.
You might think me an advocate of SMG2 being a perfect ten game, but that's not true, because I do believe that story plays a large part of it. What we must remember though is that Mario has always been about simplistic fun. The character has never had an amazingly well detailed and crafted out story. It has always used very basic musical tracks, but it has always been fun. Time and repetition has perfected Nintendo's ability to bring what the masses want, and just because there is a swing in opinion to the hardcore gamers, the vast market recognises Mario for what it was, and what gaming should be about. Something that is lost on the modern generation and the swing towards violence and hate: The ability to hearken back to younger days, when all you cared about was fun.
I've gone all tangential here. I think what I'm trying to say is that if you want to compare SMG2 against the best of the best that is available today, of course you will find it lacking. But if you want to look at it from a fundamental point of view. If you want to sit back and ask yourself, "What is gaming?" before looking to review it, you will undoubtedly come away thinking that it is near perfection.
Like Highlander wrote, it isn't really fair to compare cross-platform, because they are all so different with their own strengths and weaknesses. At the same time, it really isn't right to divide them up, because all these platforms are designed to offer the user with an experience that is very similar at its basic stucture.
I personally have not played SMG2 as I do not have a Wii, but were I to do so, I don't think I would be able to look at it as favourably as professional reviewers have, because it is their job to differentiate between the platforms and the experiences they offer. As a gamer, I look for something that I can immerse myself in. I look for a world that exudes realism in the face of reality and makes you believe in it. Mario has never done that.
I can't give you an answer to Temjin's original question because it shouldn't be compared games like God of War, or Killzone. If anything, it should be compared to LBP. Ask yourself what kind of a score you would gave to LBP, then ask if SMG2 is better than that. That's all I've got.
Peace.
Last edited by Lawless SXE on 8/1/2010 2:40:28 AM
2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 3:05:22 AM
You were talking about the big Mario game and you're right, if it's a great game, it's a great game. That should be the largest proportion of it's rating. If we're doing a cross platform comparison of two games in a similar genre, say Mario vs Ratchet. If both games have equivalent scores for fun, then on an absolute scale they are both very fun games. But, comparing the two games the Mario game on the Wii is obviously lacking in terms of the graphics, perhaps it's game mechanic isn't as complex or flexible as Ratchet? Perhaps the voice acting and story aren't really up to snuff. But it's still a really, really fun game. So, what do we do? Mario has such name recognition that a Mario game would have to literally be the dregs of the universe before it got a crap review score from most reviewers (Ben and a few others excepted).
Now,if both our stellar platforming games, Mario and Ratchet get a 10 out of 10, is the Mario game really as good as the Ratchet? It has inferior graphics, potentially the game mechanic may be less deep, the presentation may suffer because of the lack of hardware power. So, clearly it can't be as good as Ratchet - all other things being equal, because it has deficiencies. Do you ever see anyone in a review state that? Generally the review will wax lyrical about Mario and nostalgia and paint over the cracks in the game with that big old fat brush of nostalgia paint.
Anyway, the thought I had is regarding playing an old game that was/is considered to be the best of it's kind, perhaps even the GOAT. You play that game, but you have 15-20 years of gaming since you last played it. It's a rude awakening. I played Elite on a BBC Micro in 1984 and it was the best game I had ever played. It's still right up there in my mind along with Uncharted 2 and some other huge games. But, I played it again recently, and you know what? The controls were not as refined as I remembered, the graphics were sparse, the game play was not as deep as I remembered, it simply wasn't as much fun any more. Now, at the time it was released, Elite was absolutely a 10/10 game. No questions. But today, if that exact game were released as it is, on modern hardware, but identical to how it was in 1984. That game would be lucky to hit 5/10, in fact it might not even get past 3/10.
That is kind of part of the point. The Wii is yesterday's technology. Just like my beloved Elite, it's time has passed, and it's games, as good as they are, do not compare to the PS3. But, that doesn't mean they're bad games or not fun.
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Lawless SXE
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 4:38:06 AM
The problem is the hardware limitations of the Wii. I mean, yes if it had the capabilites of the PS3, and SMG2 was as it is, then hell, it shouldn't deserve more than a seven because of all of the other elements. It really makes you wonder what the developers would be able to pull off on a more powerful system, or whether in the future they will continue to rehash the same mechanics and story that is all we've had thus far.
I know the feeling of going back to an old game and feeling let down by your memory. Mine is Sonic on the Sega Mega Drive. I can't remember which one it was, but my sister and I would quite literally spend days trying to beat it. We saw the Sega Mega Drive Ultimate Collection in the store one day, and looking at the games included in the compilation were all of those classic Sonic games, and we were stunned. Here was a chance to play back over that old game that held our attention for a ridicuous amount of time way back when.
And yes, it still is fun, but not as much as once it was. Graphically, it looks like a flash game, it feels far too simplistic. The whole game was really a disappointment to me. It really opened my eyes to what nostalgia is.
Again, you're right; these older games, as great as they were, simply don't stack up by todays standards. The Wii and its games do fall under that same umbrella, regardless of the innvoation it brought in motion sensing. The technologies are simply not good enough to be competitive on any real scale. And that is unfortunate. Here's to hoping that Nintendo can gauge that real gamers want a more fulfilling experience and save the next Mario for a new, more powerful system, which can give it the same production values as Ratchet.
Peace.
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Temjin001
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 5:55:23 PM
Thank you for taking interest. I thought I was going to lay this topic to rest, but the well thought out responses were too compelling.
The concept of fun is an important one.
If gaming is to be entertainment it better be entertaining.
I made a reply to my original post above that separates the purpose of a critic and a gamer.
Something I want to make clear is that these two classifications don't have to be separate entities, because I believe the critic has to be a gamer to be legitimate. Look at those old Hollywood farts trying to critique gaming as an example of someone who offers their opinions without having the experiences of a gamer.
So, ideally, the gamer is wearing the hat of a critic when his purpose is to review.
When I observe the concept of fun I come to a few thoughts.
The idea here is that games display imagery and audio: sense data. A person's mind is going to interpret that data and have accompanying emotions with it. I don't want to delve deeper into this other than as the gamer inputs commands an expected reaction occurs. If the game triggers enough positive exchanges, at this point, the game becomes fun.
The problem with fun is that in the eyes of the critic. Fun varies between gamers, even the same gamer in different circumstances. In fact, I would imagine outside influences can impact the fun-factor of a game. Not getting enough sleep, being stressed, or sick may hinder one's enjoyment of a game. So, if this is the case, fun is an ever moving emotion that isn't static like a gaming convention can be. If God of War 3's graphics are amazing when it launched, they will still be amazing until some other games topples it. Just as Uncharted 2's many many strengths are observable conventions of content. I doubt when Ben sits down to do a review one of his review criteria is "fun."
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___________
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 3:15:10 AM
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FUN!
ive had more fun playing MG2 than i have had playing uncharted, uncharted 2, GOW3, MGS4, heavenly sword, resistance, resistance 2, motorstorm, motorstorm 2, KZ2, LBP and mod nation racers put together!
the reason why wii games do so well is because they focous on the most important thing.
FUN!
they dont give a sh*t if the game is a technological marvel, all there interested in is making the game as enjoyable and entertaining as humanly possible!
and frankly thats all that matters, because at the end of the day games are a form of entertainment, there job is to entertain us, not to show of what a silicone chip can do!
as for desus ex i dunno, i mean quite a few sites did name it best of show E3 2010 so i dont think thats called lack of respect.
people are not jumping up and down over it like a 7 year old on red cordial because we really have not seen anything on it yet!
as for LA Noire, its going to be worth the wait thats all ill say!
guaranteed GOTY whenever it releases, its that good!
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NoSmokingBandit
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 8:51:12 AM
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Shams
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 1:53:20 PM
But I definitely wouldn't go as far to say it is more fun than the rest of my library, which is therefore replaceable by it. If I'm in the mood to tap into my inner-ninja, or to take back Empire city, or pawn some noobs with blinding speed on a futuristic race track, or play some exciting co-op in the beautiful corners of Shangrila, or defeat the next unknown challenge around the corner in Boletaria, or climb Olympus again, or check out the latest inventions by the LBP community, or relive the terror on the Ishimura, then of course, I will have to play other games.
I think that's what so awesome about the PS3. There is so much fun, variety, and quality, and something for everyone. And you don't have to wait 2 years of the next big hit.
But I'm an open-minded person. If there are any Ratchet & Clank fans (or Qwark fans) here that can tell me SMBG is in an entirely different class of fun of it's own than even of Ratchet's, I'll give it a try, then.
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___________
Monday, August 02, 2010 @ 7:51:03 AM
still one of my favorite games though, because its so much fun, and has so much to do be it extort shops, contract hits, favors, or just driving around wreaking havoc!
R&C is a poor comparison to mario because it plays so differently.
thats what makes mario so appealing, theres really no game like it!
though R&C has and always will be my favorite series!
the ps3 versions were good, ACIT is far better than TOD but the ps2 versions particularly up your arsenal was my favorite!
scrummaging those sewers for those pesky crystals was so much fun! plus the R.Y.N.O was so freaking powerful, the most powerful in all the R&C games!
3 shots with that baby and the final boss was dead it was that powerful!
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SolidFantasy
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 4:34:17 AM
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Deleted User
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 5:33:39 AM
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personal gaming update
this past week was all about star craft 2 and ncaa football 11. i beat star craft 2 friday night on easy and let me tell you this game has one of my favorght ending this year along with mass effect 2 and infamous. this month i think i will buy kane & Lynch 2, Madden NFL 11 and Mafi 2
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Snaaaake
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 5:42:41 AM
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And of course I have to update the firmware to the latest but just in case, I googled to see if the latest update got any problem and apparently some people said that their PS3 CRASHED after the update or 99% completed for the update.
Is this just their luck or is firmware 3.41 really that dangerous?
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Qubex
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 9:15:34 AM
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
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Snaaaake
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 10:00:59 AM
Does that mean it's something to do with the hardware instead of the update?
I don't dare to update my firmware.
Damn Sony sometimes giving us a console-killing update......
Last edited by Snaaaake on 8/1/2010 10:01:46 AM
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Roach721
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 1:56:13 PM
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Snaaaake
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 6:50:07 PM
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Highlander
Monday, August 02, 2010 @ 10:34:53 AM
I think Sony is trying to push out a version of 3.41 that's a full update, not an incremental, in the meantime people need to obtain the full 3.40 firmware. That is a full update, so no incomplete incremental shenanigans to bother your upgrade/reformatting.
3.41 once installed is quite stable.
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NazzyQ
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 6:13:50 AM
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JackC8
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 6:41:01 AM
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Deus Ex is one of my more highly anticipated games as well. Then I finally realized is being published by Square Enix - it's like meeting a really hot babe who likes you, then finding out she hit her last boyfriend over the head with a hammer. Well, I just hope that all they're doing is publishing it, and not messing with it in any way, shape or form.
LA Noire, I dunno. I was pretty excited about it at first, but then it went multiplatform. Now the release is pushed back right into the middle of a huge slew of games I'm really excited about. It's really looking like a bargain bin purchase for sometime next year. If it gets spectacular reviews, maybe I'll reconsider.
I've got a bit of a confession to make - I've been playing Fallout 3. Yeah, the game I griped and complained about until everybody was probably sick of listening to me. What can I say, after 15 hours of Final Fantasy XIII, even games I didn't like before seem fabulous to me now. Only have a handful of trophies left before I platinum it. I also downloaded the Broken Steel add-on so I could continue leveling up past level 20, and continue playing after I get to the original ending.
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Lucifer
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 12:50:27 PM
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Zorigo
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 6:45:04 AM
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As for LA Noire, i still have no idea but nearer the time i'll be paying a lot of attention.
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Kokushi
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 11:54:03 AM
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Personal gaming update:
Working on my first platinum with Uncharted 1 (only two trophies left, beating the game in hard (so far in level 13) and crushing.
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piratedrunk
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 1:47:00 PM
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Shams
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:05:54 PM
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StangMan80
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 2:50:46 PM
Wii games are like 5/10 compared to PS3 games if not less, You can't compare the Wii with the PS3 the PS is on a much higher level.
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Axe99
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 5:26:16 PM
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Highlander
Monday, August 02, 2010 @ 10:32:24 AM
Anyway, review scores matter to me in the following way. I look at the aggregate score at Metacritic, and look at the distribution. If the scores predominantly cluster around a given score, I'll believe it. If they vary greatly and there are low scores coming from sources other than tiny slightly loony gaming blogs, then I'm wary. I tend to ignore user reviews at Metacritic because they are so openly abused.
I do look at user review scores on Amazon. I like places that will give you a visual of the score distribution, it makes it easier to see whether a game is generally good of a love-it/loathe it affair. The new 5 star system on the PSN is a nice addition to this.
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Pandacastro
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 8:22:25 PM
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MyWorstNightmar
Monday, August 02, 2010 @ 11:53:23 AM
Mine is August 4th. Birthdays were cool...until you turned 25. Car insurance discounts kicked in. Now? All that kicks in are aches and pains.
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Alienange
Reply
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 9:42:49 PM
There's nothing worse than Nintendo's constant refusal to get with the times. First it was refusing to go CD based, then it was the refusal to have online and now it's HD graphics.