: Final Fantasy XIII-2: What We Want

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Final Fantasy XIII-2: What We Want

This should be fun. The rumors concerning a Final Fantasy XIII sequel don't have much merit to them, but it's still fun to consider: what do we want to see out of FFXIII-2, if it actually existed?

The only other sequel in the franchise is Final Fantasy X-2, which exists in a love/hate relationship world amongst the fans. Personally, I had no problem with it, although I certainly do believe FFX was better. I wasn't the biggest supporter of the story in FFX-2 but I loved the new class system (Dress Spheres), if only because it sort of reminded me of Final Fantasy Tactics. The rest of the gameplay was plenty solid and entertaining and if Square-Enix wanted to take a similar route for Lightning's return, I wouldn't mind at all. But of course, that isn't going to happen, because even the remotest version of turn-based is dead on consoles.

Still, it's not outside the realm of the possibility to think they'd change a great deal. I would prefer them to stick to the structure that arrived after we reached Gran Pulse in FFXIII - and I seriously doubt I'm alone on that - because it affords more freedom and makes it feel like an actual RPG. I would also want them to slow the combat down and re-implement some semblance of strategy. I keep thinking the system from FFXII would work extremely well; it's basically the same system we see in other hardcore RPGs, like Dragon Age. Then again, they could try something entirely new; lest we forget new forms of character advancement is something we always expect from every new FF. Maybe they could take a risk or two and give us something we've really never seen before...

As for new characters, I suppose that'd be okay. The cast in FFXIII wasn't one of my favorites, but I think they really can do a lot more with many of the main players. In fact, most of the characters were just starting to get interesting in the latter stages of FFXIII. But hey, I want Cid to be playable. I think the last time he was a party member was in FFVII; he's long past due. So, what do you want? If you were standing in front of the design team, what would be your ultimate directive? What ideas would you want to try?  And try to be nice to the S-E employees.

1/7/2011 Ben Dutka

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Comments (82 posts)

Jawknee
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:24:57 PM
Reply

They should just remake the game with a proper battle system, side quests, towns, NPC,s etc.

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totozero18
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:30:19 PM

Couldn't agree more with you jawknee, just add a couple of sidequests, 2 or 3 mini games, I'd even take multiplayer battles like Crystal Chronicles

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Qubex
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 11:53:32 PM

Yhea, just going to say, most complain about the dumbed down battle system, probably the biggest problem that needs fixing.

I can understand why fans want to retain a more "detailed" RPG experience when looking at the battle system in particular... where is the challenge if tactically your freedom to make choices is curtailed, or somewhat automated, to the point where you lose the "integrity" of what it means to have thought of and executed a strategy that gives you a convincing victory.

Where is the satisfaction of a "job well done" if abilities to make critical decisions are removed to the point where there is little satisfaction in winning anything.

Still baffles the mind why they took a perfectly balanced model, and changed it so drastically... to appeal to more Western gamers?

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 1/7/2011 11:54:29 PM

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kraygen
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:17:56 AM

but then they wouldn't be able to give it to the xbots without selling it in a 100 disc sleeve of some kind. =)

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godsman
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:28:26 PM
Reply

I want my level-up system back. One of the MANY things I hate about FFXIII is that the higher crystal levels won't unlock until you progress through the story. You can't grind more than you are allowed to fight the next boss.

No level-up, no armor, no towns. Does it still count as an RPG, maybe... but a AAA not really.

What I want more is the Final Fantasy PS2 Collection. I completely missed the PS2 era. I enjoyed it so much when God of War Collection came out.

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Snaaaake
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:36:28 PM

No level system ain't no problem, FFX did it very very well.
I grinded till I can easily OVERKILL any boss, by the time I reach the Calm Land, my Tidus already learned Blitz Ace.

That's how you do stats upgrade!

Last edited by Snaaaake on 1/7/2011 9:37:04 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:03:05 PM

That's because FFX let you advance the sphere grid at your whim.

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shadowscorpio
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:09:32 AM

Right World

The sphere system did everything the level system did, just in a different equation - same results. FF13's growth system was restricting and limited.

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Snaaaake
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:28:42 PM
Reply

One thing I want is NPC interaction.
To me, FFXIII is just a turn-based action game.

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godsman
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:32:17 PM

It was pathetic. It didn't feel like a Final Fantasy world. I didn't even bother talking to anyone even if there were NPC. I just walk right pass them.

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Snaaaake
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:33:20 PM

FFXIII was sushi dipped with BBQ sauce instead of wasabi, it tastes horrible to both east and west.

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Jawknee
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:41:34 PM

LOL!

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godsman
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 12:59:11 AM

@Snaaaake

Great analogy

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shadowscorpio
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:15:15 AM

LOL!

Honestly, I don't think any Final Fantasy has gotten this kind of critism for this long. Square-Enix needs not to say we don't understand it and instead say, "Okay, we tried something and it simply just didn't work". At least go back to a traditional formula for the next iteration and brainstorm new ideas for what comes after that one.

Football is NOT basketball. Don't try to change the dynamics of football to cater to the basketball deographic. period-

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Underdog15
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 9:37:53 AM

@Snaaaaake
I appreciated that analogy! ^.^ lol

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 12:41:40 PM

big thumbs up scorpio

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LittleBigMidget
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:34:46 PM
Reply

I want it to actually be a Final Fantasy.

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Jawknee
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 9:41:11 PM
Reply

Proper weapon selection as well. Did anyone else notice each character only had four weapon designs to choose from? All of them were reused with new paint. Just like the monsters.

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kraygen
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:21:47 AM

Your comment reminded me of something. Final fantasy games are some of my absolute favorites, but they have always gotten their amazing graphics by having everything pre-rendered, which for the most part is ok, I guess.

However I like to have a variety of armor as well as weapons and even on ff's with armor options, they never show up in game. Wish SE would do that for once.

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Lawless SXE
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:09:12 PM
Reply

I wouldn't be nice at all. Slowing down the combat is essential, as is the removal of the auto-battle option. Opening up the environment, further diversification of the enemy types, allowing control over all of the characters, even if through something akin to squad commands, rather than simply choosing the Paradigm. Retain the paradigm system, but add more attacks and abilities to it. Get rid of the Crystarium. Offer a selection of attacks and abilities from a menu, which you can pick and choose at will. Make the Eidolons more powerful, but also make the player work if they want to be able to summon them.

More sidequests like the one in Oerba, and change up the hunting quests. Oh, and a real villain. On the other hand, I might just tell them to give up, finish Versus and Agito, then get cracking on a FFVII remake, before looking to FFXV.
Peace.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:09:17 PM
Reply

PS3 EXCLUSIVE. Why? because SE finally admitted they had to slice and dice the game for 360.

As such, towns, NPCs, more varied enemies (not palette swaps) and side quests shouldn't be a problem on a blu ray.

The FFXII battle system was pompous, FF is all about a different world and battle screen. XIII got that much right, but they need to slow it down now like you said and allow for more micromanagement. Rebalance the game so you don't just give up when your leader dies. Let you control all characters in battle.

Send Hope home for good.

Ummm, armor, enough gil to actually buy things, and STORES!

Hell, nevermind FFXIII-2, just add everything I said into FFXV and glory will return to the ailing series that I've had a love affair with since I was a wee lad.

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Oxvial
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:49:15 PM

They actually admitted with some degree when they said aboutthe plans for dlc but the xbox live was a problem to them, and you know it's unfair to 360 owners to not have the same things PS3 owner has.

Last edited by Oxvial on 1/7/2011 10:49:55 PM

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Temjin001
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:13:42 PM
Reply

I want less Gran Pulse. More hallway maps. More combat action. I want a jump button DANG IT! and more femme'y males.
=p


=p (in case you missed it)



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Lawless SXE
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:30:31 PM

Nothing wrong with Femme-y males in Japanese games... I mean manly men are reserved for Western games, aren't they? >.>

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Scarecrow
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:29:56 PM
Reply

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better characters.

Priority number 1 for me.

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Oxvial
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 10:43:37 PM
Reply

Actually I would prefer if it ends being a total action game that we can beat in 8 hours, with proper action battle system and level design for it.

I just don't want want to see this taking too much time or see this cast of characters on a rpg game again.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 11:05:20 PM

If they do that and call it "Final Fantasy," somebody at S-E is gonna get hurt.

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BikerSaint
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 1:38:46 AM

Yeah Ben, throw Wada in a tree!!!

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Oxvial
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:20:35 AM

They already did wrong with the FF name at the MMORPG's getting numbers, I don't mind FFXIII-2 being an action game, now FFXV needs to be like the past FF games.

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:59:33 AM

Leave any new genre attempts for full spin-offs. What you refer to could be FFGhostXIII (Starcraft just sprang to mind for some reason). Any numbered games, or direct sequels to them must remain RPGs. Even S-E should know that you do not mess with tradition that severely. But then we look at Front Mission.
Peace.

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PorkChopGamer
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:17:18 AM

erm, Front Mission Evolved wasn't the first Front Mission to NOT be a turn-based strategy game. Front Mission: Gun Hazard is a great side-scrolling shooter. Uematsu's soundtrack is old school MIDI awesome.. And then there's a MMO third person shooter and a REAL time strategy game. They are as legitimate a spin off as Crisis Core, hence, why they are not numbered...

Last edited by PorkChopGamer on 1/8/2011 3:19:45 AM

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:21:57 AM

Maybe not, but it is well established that those Front Mission games that you mentioned were spin-offs. The same may be said of Evolved, but, to my knowledge, it has been treated as more of a reboot from the beginning.

Last edited by Lawless SXE on 1/8/2011 3:25:52 AM

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hehateme
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 11:05:22 PM
Reply

level up bring in an ultimate weapon, TURNBASED, towns everything old school about the game

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Snaaaake
Friday, January 07, 2011 @ 11:43:23 PM
Reply

But before I forget and before I want FFXIII-2 first, I want the goddamn friggin' Versus XIII to come first.

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godsman
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 1:03:07 AM

Isn't Versus XIII supposedly the XIII-2 already?

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kraygen
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:24:35 AM

It's supposed to take place on the same world supposedly, but in a different time period, as is agito xiii.

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___________
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 1:11:10 AM
Reply

all i want is a neir type gameplay & story but with FFXIII style world and graphics.

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:03:00 AM

Would you settle for Demon's Souls styled gameplay, an Elder Scrolls styled world, and with FFXIII story and graphics?

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kraygen
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:26:01 AM

I think lawless just made my dream game, well as long as it has the armor, weapons, and entire leveling style of the three combined as well.

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___________
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 7:58:04 AM

nope.
hated oblivion found it as enjoyable as watching Oprah!
as for demon souls its too hardcore to suit a FF game.
plus DS is a dark gritty dungeon styled game, set in medieval times.
realistic weapons, realistic enemies.
FF is completley different, set in the future, set with futuristic environments, bright colorful graphics, unrealistic enemies, unrealistic weapons.
if it was like demon it would be nothing like a FF game!
but than that would be no surprise, because, well, that fits FFXIII to a T!

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Ayane
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 1:31:53 AM
Reply

What's up with the "we"? It should be "I".
Gotta be careful, because not everyone agrees shares the same tastes.
Dead horse and all, yeah, but it wouldn't be PSXExtreme without the occasional FF13 related laments.
And so as not to be off topic,
what I want is for Square to just focus on the next FF or Versus, because 13 was perfect the way it is. FF7 with it's 20 million spinoffs is bad enough.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 1:48:29 AM

It's hard not to bring up FFXIII when talking about developers taking games in a bad direction this gen.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:10:20 AM

"because 13 was perfect the way it is"

pfthahahahaha! No it was not. Not even close.

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FM23
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:25:35 AM

I wouldn't call FFXIII perfect, but I enjoyed it. but you can see why a FF fan would hate this. I don't have the same feelings of love or hate towards this game in general...but I did enjoy it.

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Jawknee
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:30:16 AM

I just started a new game of Final Fantasy XII. Barely just finished the into and already I am enjoying myself way more than all the 60 hours I spent on FFXIII.

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PorkChopGamer
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:46:36 AM

You mean, like the maybe 5 or 6 instances where a game has changed a bit? Seriously, the numbers don't back up the claims of this massive exodus from the 'norm' you guys are always on about.

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:18:47 AM

'We' generally refers to the PSXE writing staff of Ben, Arnold and John. Not the members of the site.

FFXIII, for what it was, was good, but even so it could have used minor improvements. When looking at the rest of the series, it was quite the departure.

PorkChop,
Castlevania, FF, Front Mission, RE, arguably, Burnout, DmC, SSX and Splinter Cell, among others: there may not be all that many, but most of those franchises that are going through the largest changes are some of the most well-loved, if not necessarily most popular, that have ever been made. And changed a bit? The only ones that even come close to changing only 'a bit' of that list is Burnout, FF, and we must yet reserve judgement on DmC and SSX.

That's why many of the older gamers complain. The franchises that they love are being changed into something that they were never meant to be. It's not like every game is changing, and most people will admit that.
Peace.

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PorkChopGamer
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:37:37 AM

Like I said, it's only a handful. But this constant droll of so many games and genres being Call of Dutyfied isn't really backed up at all. And being an older gamer myself who's played all of those titles from the beginning, I have no problems with the changes, but then I don't complain much...

And to answer your message from above, Square Enix just released the game. Never did they imply a new era in the Front Mission series. It was people who had know idea that there were other spinoffs making a big deal out of it, jumping on the SE hate train.

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:52:05 AM

In which case, I am mistaken in thinking it was a series reboot. Okay.

As for the others. Yeah, there may be few, but the changes made to them are, in most cases, not minor. It can't be denied though that almost every genre has suffered some extent of being bred out of its individuality, in general. RPGs are now focussing more on speed than tactics, action games are becoming more reliant on that sole factor, rather than diversifying with platforming elements. The 2D platformer is almost dead. Many racing series are employing more realism. Perhaps Call-of-Duty-fied is an incorrect terminology, but these changes are happening, and they cannot be denied by anyone but the blind.

Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, as it potentially awakens more people to the potential of these other genres, but the unique spirit is most certainly dying.
Peace.

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PorkChopGamer
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:28:36 AM

So you're saying an RPG is no longer an RPG? Based on FF13? There are great games like Atelier Rorona staying true. So are the Disgaeas. And these MANY racers you speak of going to realism, that's what, 2? SSX and? Last year there were 3 arcade racers released with Motorstorm on the horizon... As far as the 2-D platformer, that was pretty much done last gen, I still love them, so that's why I have a Wii.

This is my point. No one is being remotely accurate with this stuff. Everyone is preaching doom, but the numbers say otherwise. You speak of these changes being so prevalent but you can't seem to articulate them. I'm not trying to be a jerk, Lawless. It's just that we have these incendiary articles, which I definitely enjoy because it spurs some serious debate, but I would just like for someone to put it in plain English. Because I'm not seeing gaming's demise on my shelves.

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 5:22:07 AM

I remember you saying in a previous thread about the strategy not really being present in RPGs. But many of the older games had some vestige of it. In FFXIII it is largely gone, Elder Scrolls is more about bashing your way through enemies, as is Demon's Souls. I haven't yet gotten around to Dragon Age: Origins, but it too seems more about brute force. Perhaps I'm thinking too much of Western RPGs, as you're right in saying the Japanese are still catering largely to their same audiences.

In realism I mean not only graphical style, but also physics simulations, so I'd include NFS in there, the driving aspects of GTA, and to a lesser extent Midnight Club. Hmm... Perhaps I am overstating that, but maybe it's just because there seems to be many more semi-realistic racers than pure arcade racers. Motorstorm, Ridge Racer and Burnout are vastly outnumbered by the likes of DiRT, GT, Shift, the NASCAR games, Forza and the V8 games. This may be due to the current consoles being more capable of producing realistic physics calculations, but there really are fewer arcade racers now.

I know you aren't trying to flame me, or anything of that ilk. I do have to sort of agree with you that perhaps actually taking the time to think about what there is and is not has brought to light just how quick I was to occlude reality from my sight. That being said, only doomsayers are predicting the ending of gaming as a result of genre blending or oversimplification. However, I haven't yet seen the light. I maintain that thought and strategy is dying out.
Peace.

EDIT: Also, RPGs are still RPGs, I never said that. So far as I'm concerned, they are defined by the micromanagement and story set-up. The brute force assault that is so commonplace is what I feel is wrong with them.

Last edited by Lawless SXE on 1/8/2011 5:25:52 AM

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Underdog15
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 9:42:51 AM

@Porkchopgamer
I agree with your point about Front Mission: Evolved being a spinoff. The fact that it doesn't have a number indicates a spinoff.

But FF13 is no spinoff. It's a brand new mainstream FF title. So people aren't going to be as forgiving about leaving out such key elements like NPC's, towns, exploration, and uh.... control... over many things... like how fast I want to level, or uh... maybe even the characters I fight with. lol

Other disappointments for me about SE are things like putting DQ9 on a handheld. Dragon Quest/Warrior 1-8 were all on main systems (although not all made it to NA). I hear DQ9 is great and all, but that fact alone is a degeneration of an established franchise.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/8/2011 9:46:10 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 10:37:00 AM

PorkChop, let me set you straight on a few things:

Firstly, there's nothing "incendiary" about the article. Nowhere in it did I say I had a problem with FFXIII, nor did I say anything about a sequel having to "fix" the problems in FFXIII. It's very clearly just a "what we want to see" if there were a FFXIII-2 piece. I never once mentioned CoD, either, and few, if anyone, did in the Comments until you brought it up.

Secondly, your "numbers" are flawed. You can think all you want that games aren't becoming faster and flashier for the sake of mass appeal; that doesn't change the facts. Of course they are; it's an industry that has moved into the mainstream and with the majority of participants being basically the same people who crave the flashy, substance-less summer blockbusters in theaters, developers have had to adapt.

I've been an RPG lover for nearly 18 years. You think it hasn't changed? You think the survival of the Atelier and Disgaea franchises mean nothing has changed? Right. Where's Suikoden? Legaia? Dragoon? Wild ARMs? Mana? Breath of Fire? Saga Frontier? How about a half-dozen others I could name in the same breath? BECAUSE they were slower-paced, and BECAUSE technology now says they don't need to be, and BECAUSE the majority want in-your-face all the time, they really don't exist anymore.

We always had the Diablos and the Baldurs Gates and the Icewindales; it's true. And games like Elder Scrolls are just modernized versions of those; hack 'n slash with a lot more depth. And that's a natural progression and one I don't have an issue with. The games that require thought and had pacing that wasn't a gallop? Disappearing. How about Splinter Cell: Conviction? They completely destroyed the backbone of that game for the sake of a faster-paced, more accessible third-person shooter setting.

Final Fantasy XIII is the FIRST FF to feature a combat system where you can't pause to assign fresh commands and issue items - and if you think that isn't a big deal, you don't know RPGs - and the FIRST one that allows you to hit a button over and over WITHOUT ever having to see what you even selected as a command. This was done for only one reason, and I already explained it. Get it?

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/8/2011 10:37:59 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 12:46:15 PM

Ben, unlock my thumbs up button so I can give you more than one.

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PorkChopGamer
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:57:31 PM

I think you're playing to the people here with more and more FF13 articles where people end up spouting the same things, thumbing up the same old tired "Final Fantasy 13. Garbage." statements.

You criticize Final Fantasy trying to be more accessible but one of your favorites games this gen, MGS4 did the EXACT same thing. You can now run and gun through a Metal Gear game. Never been done before. And you don't gripe about that with nearly as much fervor. The simple fact is just like FF13's auto-battle, the run and gun is completely OPTIONAL. And like I've said before, it's not the first RPG to do this. I know enough about RPGs to know that most will have an entirely NEW battle system and I take it on a game by game basis. If it works for the context of that particular game and not entirely broken ( a few flaws are acceptable)I'm good, not shedding tears for systems of old.

Phantasy Star introduced me to RPGs and I loved that series. When it went to an MMO format, I was probably one of the most disappointed gamers out there, but I also understand that no matter how many games falter or shift with the changing winds of the masses, there will always be another to take it's place in some way, shape, or form. Maybe it's just having a more robust experience in this industry than you. I've seen genres disappear and be reborn two gens later. Not being arrogant here but, by your own admission, you didn't explore many genres when you first began gaming.

I don't understand on one side you have this disdain for the popcorn flick crowd, but then proclaim Uncharted 3 may be one of the best games of all time. Or even GOW3, which didn't have as much depth as it's predecessor, but boasted unbelievable graphics. Somehow those flashy graphics you abhor, sucked you in. And MGS4? Come on... Vexing, to say the least. In fact, you do more promoting of the hyped blockbusters than some of the lesser known RPG exclusives that the PS3 has. Yes, Atelier is an example of this.

Now onto the 'missing' RPGs. I don't think they are gone, moreso they appear on more than home consoles now. The ecomony for Japanese gaming has taken an undeniable hit. It costs money to produce a great looking, lengthy, diverse RPG. Why is NIS able to stay true? Besides the fact that they stay true to what they do best, I believe it's also because they aren't out to make pretty rpgs, just good ones. But most people need graphics and in the end, they cost. Why else would a guaranteed hit like Dragon Quest be relegated to portable? Ecomomics. Anyways, games from Japan have been slow this gen, but you act if it's the same amount of games, only it's shifted to action instead of RPGs. That's just untrue. It's all in the numbers. there are some great RGPs on the DS and PSP. I won't list them but they are certainly there. Like I've said before, people are looking in the wrong place,IMO. Used to be you could own just a PS1/PS2 and all RPG needs were satisfied. Not anymore. If you want some stuff that's off the beaten path and unique, handheld may satiate the appetite.

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Underdog15
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:21:48 PM

If I have time, I might reply in full later. There's a lot wrong with your post. But for starters, GOW3 didn't change it's mechanic. Nor did Uncharted 2. (And I doubt 3 will either) Also, the auto-commands are not optional nor is the run and gun mentality. There is no setting that allows me at any time to pause and micro manage each character. But please... if I'm wrong. Enlighten me: How can I change the settings to allow me to decide the actions of ppl aside from who I decide is the lead character?

"If it works for the context of that particular game and not entirely broken ( a few flaws are acceptable)I'm good, not shedding tears for systems of old." While this is true, I do not have so much forgiveness for a system that merely runs itself. You barely even PLAY the game...

Phantasy Star Universe is hardly a critically acclaimed and established franchise. They should have changed it (and the mechanic didn't change, fyi) because it wasn't an overwhelmingly popular title like FF... It's not really fair to even compare the two.

Lastly, since I have to help my wife prepare for a family dinner, I think we're all aware that making DQ9 portable was a cost effective option. The point is the fact that they had to do that is a sign. And it isn't a sign detailing any sort of decline in quality. Anyways, not enough time to respond to a post that dealt with so many different things.

But there's almost nothing I agreed with.

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:44:39 PM

You said yourself that the autobattle of FF and run and gun of MGS are optional. What you don't mention is that the fundamental play style of FF has changed to something incredibly fast paced. Even setting the options to slow still leaves the ATB gauge feeling too fast. The whole game has changed, not merely added elements.

The quality of certain titles can't be denied, and FF is one of them. But Uncharted 2, in spite of its very nature is a brilliant game. The thing is, it was designed from the very beginning to be more fast-paced, and have these big moments at fairly regular intervals. The story is still a large focus, but its core focusses, to an extent, on the 'twitchers'. It's the other games that are traditionally more slower paced trying to cater to this crowd wherein lies the problem. They aren't designed for it.

This also lies in your argument about the graphics. It isn't the pretty graphics that is the problem, but rather the way in which they are utilised. The OTT action sequences, as opposed to taking things more slowly, and using them to their greatest effect in allowing us to feel along with the characters.

Besides, Ben has stated several times that the PSP is the new home of the RPG. It is sad to see that that is the case. When RPGs have traditionally been played on home consoles, the sudden shift is slightly saddening. He clearly desires a return of his favourite genre to consoles, with a return to their glory days, then see them remain forevermore on the handhelds. Here's hoping that you are right and we see a resurgence next gen.
Peace.

EDIT: Underdog, I think that he refers to the ability to choose commands as not being autobattle, and that I agree with, but as you mentioned, the lack of control over the other party members is not enough for the diehards.

Last edited by Lawless SXE on 1/8/2011 4:47:23 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:55:37 PM

I put up articles I think people will want to talk about. That's my job. Don't like how they're responding? That's your problem.

If you really can't tell the obvious difference between MGS4 and FFXIII, I thank God you don't review games. Konami made MGS4 more accessible by adding the OPTION to run and gun, if you so desire. IT DID NOT STRIP ANYTHING ELSE AWAY. If you wanted to be super stealthy, you could. You had all the gadgets and abilities (and then some) that we had in other installments. Conviction, in stark contrast, did nothing of the kind. It ELIMINATED the option to play stealthily. MGS4 kept the core of the franchise while still managing to add more mainstream appeal.

No towns in an RPG? Since when? The combat system in FFXIII completely discourages you from taking any sort of time to determine strategy. You are encouraged to use Auto-Battle because by completely eliminating any semblance of turn-based mechanics, the faster you go, the better. This is entirely new to Final Fantasy and makes a significant difference in how we interact with the game. And it's also the first FF to restrict control to one character and one character only THROUGHOUT COMBAT. This, as I'm assuming you can guess, is a trait found in non-RPGs, like action and shooters. It made selecting and building a party that much less immersive, and that much less IMPORTANT. You claim to know "enough" about RPGs but the fact that you missed this makes me think you...well, don't.

Furthermore, it was hardly a perfect system. I would often have to do a Paradigm shift at the start of tough battles, just so I could get the animation out of the way. Why? Because while my characters had to go through their silly posing, the enemies could KEEP MOVING. Flaw. Also, the Eidolons were essentially useless unless you're fighting something super strong (and usually optional) and in the end, I was basically only summoning them so my party could heal up. ...that's not the purpose of that system, and hence, it doesn't work very well.

I also dislike your elitist assumption that you've somehow had a more "robust experience" in gaming than I have. I played no RPGs from 1982 to 1995, but I guess that 13-year span means nothing. I only really stuck to RPGs in the PlayStation days and even then, I'd still play Twisted Metal, Medal of Honor, Castlevania, Resident Evil, etc. You don't know my history. But you sure as hell make a lot of assumptions.

Nothing is "taking the place" of the lost RPGs we had. Yes, there are plenty on handhelds but that's hardly the same thing. They're not full console productions and are inherently limited because of that.

I don't "hype" anything. I love great games. Uncharted, God of War, and MGS are great games. If there were RPGs that were worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as those games, that'd be one thing. But besides ME, which I don't particularly like, and maybe Dragon Age, the console RPG genre is woefully lacking this generation.

Uncharted marks a revolution in interactive entertainment, in terms of how storytelling and adventure aspects come together. Heavy Rain is another revolution, which, if you've already forgotten, got co-Game of the Year 2010 here. I also never said anything EVER about "abhorring" flashy graphics. When I talk of "flash," you obviously don't understand what I'm talking about, so I won't define it for you.

I know about the Japanese industry. I know there are less games. But you seem to think the Japanese aren't trying to cater more to Western gamers, when not a single Japanese developer hasn't mentioned they're trying to do EXACTLY that in any given interview. Thought you would've caught that. If they perceived things to be the same, we'd still get the same ratio of RPGs in this country. They perceive we don't want them; they have more and more limited resources, and they know the Western side is taking over. So, they make something they hope will appeal to those outside Japan, and keep most of the niche RPGs within its borders (the Tales series, for instance). Last generation, it most certainly would've come here.

You want to claim everyone who disagrees with you is wrong, but you might notice that that's just about everyone. ...that's off. I also find it interesting that this somehow came out of the above article, where nothing negative is mentioned about FFXIII. Nothing. YOU are the one who always thinks we're talking about the same thing, and I get the feeling you read nothing that's actually written.

I've asked you before to cut the sh** when it comes to picking fights and confronting everyone with stuff that isn't even related to the article. You accuse a lot of people of a lot of things. And that's going to stop, one way or the other.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/8/2011 4:58:25 PM

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PorkChopGamer
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 5:20:33 PM

@ Ben

I don't think I ever said that FF13 wasn't a stray from the norm. I just think the game is good for what it is. My apologies for offending you. Even though we disagree sometimes, I don't know another game site I enjoy more. I call a truce. No more complaining. Unless it's RDR related then...you know. ;)

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 5:34:01 PM

...I have a problem with RDR? Do not. ;)

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Temjin001
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 8:32:37 PM

A nice read guys. And I'll just throw in my 2 cents about MGS4. Loved it. IMO, it's exactly how a game should expand if they want to widen the audience. Nothing lost, nothing taken away (and if there was I didn't notice). It appeases the existing fans and may draw in new gamers at the same time.

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wakkaoaka
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:14:13 AM
Reply

i loved ffx. so i would like characters you can really connect to and feel for them. a storyline you just fall in love with and just cant get enough with. beautiful and artistic environments.

a slow battle system as well, because i like to think forever and ever, if i want quick thinking games i'll just play killzone.

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kraygen
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 4:28:13 AM
Reply

Most important 2 things they could do.

1. Slow it down.
2. Remove Auto Attack

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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 5:11:09 AM
Reply

Even though i really enjoyed Final Fantasy XIII, i don't want another one, I just want a new world now, FF should not have sequels, part of the charm was when getting a new FF game you got a completely different experience with fresh settings, characters, story, gameplay and so on.

But, if they did here are afew things i would like.

- Keep members of the 1st games cast in the 2nd, If you start with a whole new cast it will jsut appear to be a spin off.

- Keep the combat system, Yes, i know many hated it, but it would just be completely inconsistant if we sudden had an old turn based style like Lost Odyssey. Just please don't make it like an MMO, i don;t want to be bored in combat.

- Towns, yes it would be pleasent to visit more towns and enviroments at our own will.

- Structure, One thing XIII got right was the structure of the story, Something was always going on, i was always really engaed with the story events. XII you could just go through new areas and nothing would happen, i gave up ... well i hardly cared to begin with actually about the characters and quest.

- A better weapon system, i didnt like the weapon system in XIII, it was very tedious to get a new weapon, i rarely did it tbh. Also sort out the Gil rates managment, everything was far to expensive.

Other than that, i'm not bothered, aslong as they don't go immature like X-2 or Stupidly epic like the end of Dirdge of Cerberus, i'm happy.

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Genesis_Angel
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 5:58:06 AM
Reply

i couldn't agree more well the FFXIII combat system is a mix of action and clasic it is extremely goof well if they change the way the bar fills to do something and ade more super atacks like ultima/flaire/supernove (i missed those atacks from ffx-2) then it would make some
diference cuz ffx-2 had better gameplay than ffx but as u said lacked in story

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Temjin001
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 10:00:44 AM
Reply

As a generalized response to some of the bashing. I thought FF13 was awesome. Yes, it strays pretty far from what's conventionally been FF--making it something of a different beast, or spin-off. But it's still awesome. And I love the battle system. It's just, after 2000+ fights happening one after the other with brief moments of story it begins to wane a bit.

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Beamboom
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 12:10:07 PM
Reply

What we want is less articles about Final Fantasy... *shrugs*

/me points at FF fansites

Last edited by Beamboom on 1/8/2011 12:11:02 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 1:33:58 PM

Yeah. Obviously, nobody wants to talk about it.

'rolls eyes'

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Beamboom
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 5:35:35 PM

I guess there are more ff-fans on this site than one should expect.
I guess you're right and I am wrong. That's nothing new, if so. And I don't say that ironically - I have had a tendency of being a minority of my own around here. However I'm fine with that. :)

It's just an observation. At the moment Final Fantasy is the game title with most front stories on psxextreme, and has been so... I'd say more or less steadily for more than a year now. You don't see that on other gaming sites, not even on rpg sites. It could be there is a reason for that.


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/8/2011 5:42:05 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 7:50:20 PM

BS. I do at least one editorial every week and sometimes two or three. I count about a half-dozen in 2010 where FF was the topic.

You do the math. It's called a ratio, if you need to know the term.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/8/2011 7:50:51 PM

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Beamboom
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 7:57:59 PM

I do not mean only editorials. I mean all (news, editorials, previews, postviews, whateverviews) that is found listed on the front page where FF is the main or at least a significant part of the content.
What was the total number of FF-stories were released in 2010? Can't you seek up that based on the articles tag? I bet that number surpass any other title, and not just by a few numbers, for 2010.

Not that theres automatically anything wrong in that. I just find the balance to be a bit strange.

Last edited by Beamboom on 1/8/2011 8:03:51 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 9:00:42 PM

No, as a matter of fact, FF isn't even close to the top. In fact, it's Uncharted by a long shot.

And if you hadn't noticed, FF is relatively big news every year a new one releases. We report the news. If it's all about monster truck racing, it'll be all about monster truck racing.

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Beamboom
Sunday, January 09, 2011 @ 7:55:24 AM

But why is it not "FF-week every week" on IGN, 1up, gametrailers, gamespot & co, since there's continiously *so* much hot news about FF... I just feel this is a bit too much "truck racing" compared to what other races that's out there.

But I won't beat this dead horse further. I just voiced my opinon. It is no big deal for me to read a bit about FF now and then. After all, who am I to demand that every single news item should be tailored just for me?

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MattS
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 1:17:24 PM
Reply

1. The crystarium is far too linear, redo that completely so we have more control over the characters we create and where their strengths and weaknesses lay.

2. Make the maps less linear so we have more freedom to explore and battle.

3. Let us have more control over our character selection, don't wait till we are over halfway through the game before we can build our own parties.

4. The weapon upgrading system was by far the most complicated and ridiculous thing to understand.

Thanks SE, I look forward to the sequel within the next 2 years with the above changes made.

;-P

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Alienange
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 2:06:36 PM
Reply

The combat in FFXIII isn't bad at all. The problem with the combat is that it doesn't start getting good until you're at the very end of the game. Playing for 30 hours before things "get good" is just a bad design choice.

Letting us run loose on Gran Pulse only to find out that you can't possibly beat 95% of the enemies until AFTER the game ends is just nonsense as well.

Add to that a story that only makes sense in the final three hours of gameplay and you've got a game that SHOULD be out of this world fantastic, but ends up boring or confusing the grand majority who try it and hence gets left by the wayside.

And why the HELL are my teammates talking while out of ear shot?? How annoying IS that?

If there was a FFXIII-2, I'd honestly want a more coherent story with a true main character. Someone with bigger issues than a hippie sister.

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swapnilgyani
Saturday, January 08, 2011 @ 3:11:47 PM
Reply

1. Quit handholding. Unlock all features within the first hour of gameplay.

2. Let the player have at least some degree of control over other party members in a battle, such as the buff / debuff lineup, etc.

3. Make most of the game world like Gran Pulse - open, optional missions, loads of stuff to do.

4. When my characters power up, let me have a visible effect of it in battle.

5. If I've got 6 party members, I want ALL of them in a battle together!

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Gordo
Sunday, January 09, 2011 @ 4:36:49 AM
Reply

I liked FFXIII a lot as it has amazing production values and story.

It can do with a lot of improvements though:

1 hour tutorial instead of 10 hours.
More diverse levelling up.
A sensible weapon and armour system. I honestly never changed weapons through most the game.
A few branching storylines. It was very linear. We don't need Dragon Age Origins but some choices would be better.
A game plus option that allowed playing the game again without the first 10 hours.

I liked the graphics and characters. Its a good game but definately could be improved.

We are saying these things because we care, not to just be negative (which I think is the majority view on this site!)

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DrRockso87
Sunday, January 09, 2011 @ 9:17:16 AM
Reply

I have a feeling if we do see a 'Final Fantasy XIII-2', it won't be for consoles, it'll be for the PSP, PSP2, or 3DS. Square-Enix definitely seems to care more about handhelds this generation than consoles.

I can't blame them though. Handhelds are cheaper to create games for and more convenient to market. I hope that's true. I'd rather see them work on a remake of 'Final Fantasy VII' than dump their time into making a sequel to XIII on the PS3/Xbox 360.

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qwerty__91
Sunday, January 09, 2011 @ 9:19:04 AM
Reply

My main problem with FF13 was the lack of control over your other party members. Sure they seemed to react well anyway but it took away the skill. I don't have a problem with real time battles (the battle system in FF12 was brilliant) but I would like a little more control. Also I felt that the story was quite weak which I was disappointed with as that is one of the main reasons I love the ff games so much

In addition I saw a comment above that said GOW3 and Uncharted 2 didn't change and that's what made them great (something to that effect)

But Final Fantasy is all about reinventing itself with each iteration! That's why it is still going

Last edited by qwerty__91 on 1/9/2011 9:24:32 AM

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Beyond13Jigsaw
Sunday, January 09, 2011 @ 10:49:14 AM
Reply

Am I the only one (I haven't read all the comments) that found themselves yelling at the screne in a boss fight coz the player wouldn't move???

I mean who in their right mind would just stand there while a huge eidleon (I prefered aeons but I liked that you could fight with your eidleon) ran at them with a huge attack?? I think that if your going to have a battle system like FFXIII you should be able to run around an enemy to attack a weak spot or something like that... also I miss the side quests like in FFX and FFXII and the ability to grind for hours on end just to be sure that you can win the next boss fight only to find out that there is no boss fight then a few minutes of gameplay later after you underleveled BAM a boss fight...

AND what's the point in having a medic to revive your people when if the leader dies its game over? or that the medic dies waaaaaaaay more then anyone else? Its mind boggiling

Its not that im angry with FFXIII I think the grapics and sound qullity was excellent but its mainly the battles and lack of exploration that sunk my boat but I seriously hope they fix these problems for FFXV or FFXIII-2

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qwerty__91
Sunday, January 09, 2011 @ 11:33:47 AM
Reply

I never had that problem but I remember being on the phone to my mate when we bought ff13 and him screaming at Fang to move. (not quite that polite)

A major thing for me actually was that the Eidolon system was terrible!

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Beyond13Jigsaw
Monday, January 10, 2011 @ 2:57:56 AM
Reply

Lol, im the final fight on FFXIII I was literally yelling my head off at Lighting and Snow to move out of the way but alas they didn't and I died for the 100th time... so then I gave up and came back to it after I had punched the cr*p outta my punching bag and won =P

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