: Ben's Week In Review: October 16

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Ben's Week In Review: October 16

Some great games already in for the fall, many more to come. Prepare yourselves!

This focus on the realistic and the gritty is hurting JRPGs

You know, we've spoken at length about the demise of the JRPG this generation. Recently, I've blamed critics for being biased against the sub-genre, thereby resulting in lower-than-anticipated sales, which in turn causes developers to second-guess the production of more JRPGs. However, if you look at the biggest (and best) games in the world right now, they tend to be either realistic or gritty or both. The success of colorful, inoffensive, mostly nonviolent games seems to only work for Nintendo these days.

Of course, there are exceptions to that rule (Ratchet & Clank, for instance), but the industry trends are very clear. If it isn't realistic/gritty, it's more sci-fi or darker in general; i.e., BioWare's productions like Mass Effect and Dragon Age. These bright, non-bloody JRPGs with younger-looking anime characters just seem to be falling by the wayside. So when I see Ni no Kuni commercials, or I hear about the Tales series, I keep thinking they just don't fit anymore.

Stop freaking out about the length of Uncharted 3

I almost didn't post the story because I knew what would happen. Firstly, gamers would immediately forget that both of the first two Uncharted games weren't longer than 12 hours; many gamers finished them in around 10 hours. Secondly, when you hear a critic or journalist give a length estimate, it is always on the short end. Always. Reviewers were saying Heavenly Sword was like 5 or 6 hours long, for instance, and that was crap. It was easily an 8-10 hour game for all normal players. And it's not that reviewers want to lie.

But it's the only number they know. All they know is how fast it took them to finish; they can only speculate how much longer it would be for everyone else. And many times, it's really hard to tell. When you're going fast and you just need to get it done, you'd be amazed what you voluntarily skip. You'd be amazed at what your brain automatically dismisses as unimportant just for the sake of progression. 8-9 hours from that sort of source? It's a 10-hour game. At the least. And that's hardly any different from previous iterations, so don't start freaking out.

Personal gaming update

As you might expect, I haven't had much time for myself, so I haven't even been able to finish RAGE or Catherine. The only good news is that I'm close to the end of both (I think), and nothing else is on my plate...yet. Batman: Arkham City arrives this week, of course, and that's hardly the end of things. I also have to deliver a review for PAYDAY: The Heist, and I have The Sims 3: Pets sitting here...although I'm debating on a review. I'm just not sure anyone will care about it.

Plus, we've got The Cursed Crusade, Okabu, The Lord of the Rings: War in the North, Sonic Generations, and GoldenEye 007: Reloaded to deal with. So yeah, it'll just keep getting busier. But thankfully, it only goes until Thanksgiving and then I can finally get a break.

10/15/2011 Ben Dutka

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Comments (77 posts)

bigrailer19
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 9:39:07 PM
Reply

I think uncharted 3 will end up being a leNgth no one can complain about. With that said, I just wanna say both my save files for uncharted 1 and 2 are upwards of 12 hours. That's me playing the game normally and piling up treasures as I go, but not constantly backtracking and looking for them, but just enjoying the pace of the story. If Uncharted 3 takes me 8 to 9 hours playing the same way I will be a little upset.

Also I never ever rush through games except for trophies, heavenly sword I believe took me around 8 hours so... Yea reviewers rush through games.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/15/2011 9:39:48 PM

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Jawknee
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:23:03 PM

Excessive thumbs down? Wth? There is nothing wrong with what this man said. If you are going to thumb him down atleast challenge what he said instead of hiding behind the thumbs like a coward.

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Douchebaguette
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:28:48 PM

Those cowards are running from the battlefield! SHAMEFUR DISPRAY!

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Killa Tequilla
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:58:15 PM

I wouln't worry about a review for The Sims 3, Ben. Just sit back, relax and finish RAGE and Catherine.

EDIT: this wasn't supposed to be a reply :)

Last edited by Killa Tequilla on 10/15/2011 10:59:57 PM

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Gordo
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 3:32:46 AM

Call me a noob but Uncharted 1 took me 11 hours and Uncharted 2 14 hours for my first playthroughs...

I would call that good value for money! Since I then instantly restarted them both and played through a second time that is special as I rarely do that anymore.

Played through the campaign of Killzone 3 four times. Played through Uncharted 2 four times.
Traded LA Noire and Crysis 2 half way through them both.

I know which ones I would call good value for money!

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kokoro
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 9:52:38 PM
Reply

I don't think you should bother reviewing the sims.

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Dreno
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:09:51 PM
Reply

Firtsly, Ben, are you talking about jrpg's as its on sub rpg genre or rpgs in the complete genre?

I only ask because of the rpgs I've seen on the current gen are mostly realistic/gritty. But for jrpgs for the mosy part, I think keep the tradition "younger hero" colorful world and monsters setup that's been the selling point for that genre, jrpgs. I mean look at wkc 1&2. Colorful worlds, younger heros, magic etc...

But if you look at the flip side you get games like fallout, kind of the elder scrolls games, and dragon age. Yes I view dragon age as not being a jrpg.

Anyways, to me it seems like the jrpg sub genre of the rpg genre is still there. Although not as much as it used to be, look at what ff used to be as opposed to what ff13 is.
While I think the creators of great rpgs want to cater to the casual gamer I know that there are still those devs out there making jrpgs that are keeping what I believe to be what an rpg needs to be, alive. For that I'm grateful.

I say keep giving us the rpgs of yesteryear, give us the ff7,8,9 and 10s, give us the kh's, give us the chrono triggers and so on and so forth. Let the causal gamers get they're jollies with the fps's and action games. ( nothing wrong with the fps's and action games ) but keep the rpg genre what it should be.

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Lawless SXE
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:11:01 PM
Reply

It's sad that there aren't more games with the look of the likes of Ni No Kuni and VC. They are simply so absorbing and really act to stand out from the norm of dark, dull environs. But then, it is also the gameplay that stands out, so I'm left wondering, are the two linked in some way? Do offbeat graphics work better with genres that are less popular... Hmm.

I'm sure that Uncharted 3 will be of a decent length. What I find strange is that people seem to attack the nine hour statement then turn around and say ten hours is fine. Is it a double digit mentality, or are people just funny like that. I'm predicting that it'll take me ten and a half hours first time around on normal, and I'm okay with that. If it takes eight and a half, I'll be extremely disappointed, but c'est la vie, I'll just play over it again on Hard and enjoy it all over again.

PU:
Haven't made much progress with Paradise, but I'm getting through it slowly.
Finished Dante's Inferno yesterday, and it has issues, but it isn't a bad game. Just not a great one. Now playing Uncharted: Drake's Fortune and damn... dem grafix iz daaaated. Rest of the game still holds up well though from the half hour that I've spent back in that world thus far.
Been having trouble getting to sleep lately, which means that I've been cracking out the PSP to help me nod off. Made some more progress on FFIV!
Peace.

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PasteNuggs
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:14:40 PM
Reply

If even if UC3 is only 8 to 9 hours it will be the most amazing nine hours you haven't ever spent in front of your television. I think it will take me a bit longer though because I probably won't use that fancy new sprint button they've added.

As for JRPG's I see this as for so long all everyone seemed to talk about was pushing graphics. Making it look more real, better animations etc. That's why I think the best games from generations past were cartoony and non realistic looking. Developers knew they couldn't make stuff look real yet and they made it cartoony to make things look smoother.

PGU:

Working through Rage right now with eleven hours clocked. Does anyone know how long it takes. I really wanna get it and R&C finished before Battlefield but Rage keeps dragging on and on.

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Jawknee
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:29:34 PM
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"So when I see Ni no Kuni commercials, or I hear about the Tales series, I keep thinking they just don't fit anymore."

I say who cares? I'm just happy we're finally getting some colorful, turn based JRPG's on our PS3. I absolutly cannot WAIT for Ni No Kuni. It's my most anticipated game of 2012.

In not worried one bit about Uncharted 3's length. I have always wished Uncharted games were a bit longer but 8 to 12 hours seems about right for their stories.

PGU: Since the GT5 update its been GT5 and RAGE.

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Underdog15
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 10:02:22 AM

If gaming -actually- wants to be considered a legitimate entertainment avenue and be taken seriously by people... and remove it's stigma as something male high-school drop outs or social failures do in their parent's basements...

Then we -NEED- variety and some form of artistic expression in games. If all we ever get is dark, dirty, gritty, and controversial... then gaming will eventually lose interest with mature adults and maintain it's negative stigma.

Yes, we need games like CoD, Battlefield, and Mass Effect... but we also need our White Knight's, Ni No Kuni's, Tales of, Heavy Rains, and Uncharteds. Without them, gaming will never evolve beyond the technical.

Rather... it will cease it's evolution. Because let's face it... gaming has been doing amazing things the last 2 decades. I would hate to see it lose momentum just because some people have a limited outlook on what dictates quality.

The industry needs more money placed into development so variety never suffers. (Can you imagine how much greater CoD would be if even 10% more of the billions made were placed back into it's own development?!?!)

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SoulController
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 10:40:29 PM
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Its so funny that you say that about JRPGS Ben, as I have been trying to get back into anime lately. I was watching Death Note earlier tonight and thought of the Anime & Japanese art style, why isnt it as popular and how much I miss it. Without over thinking it or beating a dead horse, I really think it all boils down to the simple fact that nothing last forever. In all forms of media, nothing stays popular and on top forever.

For example, I'm a fan of funk music and Funk was at its height in popularity in the 70s and 80s and only lasted that long because of Prince taking it to another level. At the end of the day, thats what Japanese devs and artist need to do. Go up a couple more notches. They've done it before..

I think everyone, especially playstation fans have a lot of anxiety about Uncharted 3. We all want it to be great and average a metacritic score of at least 90. I have complete faith in Naughty Dog and know they wont let us down on the length, gameplay etc...

PGU: Dark Souls is crack on a blu ray!One of the best things about Dark Souls are the fans and its community. All of my friends who have it and a few of my PSN friends, were always helping each other and giving each other tips. I really believe its part of why the game is so popular.

I platinumed Ghost of Sparta last week & finished Dead Space extraction and now I cant wait for DS3.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:06:53 AM

Ironically, I've never been into anime despite my love of JRPGs. :)

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:35:33 AM

Neither have I Ben. The closest to anime I have ever gotten is Akira, Ninja Scroll, Fist of the Northstar and Dragon Ball.

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kokoro
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:54:51 AM

Death note is incredible. A masterpiece.

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Looking Glass
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:44:06 PM

Interestingly enough, anime is actually more popular now than it's ever been and it's popularity continues to rise.

As for while JRPGs are simultaneously not as popular as they once were. Well that is a good question that I myself don't really have the answer to.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 11:12:06 PM
Reply

Not worried about Uncharted 3. I'm having some fun with Atelier Totori (turn based combat and anime goodness), so much so I'm putting WKCII on the back burner. But I've also got Dead Island and Catherine to play and my time is also very short. Got to make a little headway in Crysis as well, that game both impresses and disappoints me.

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Jawknee
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:58:41 AM

I'd like to play those Altier games but I'm not a fan of the cardboard cutout story telling.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 1:02:57 AM

I'm not either but you deal with it, it's not nearly as rampant as it is in Ar Tonelico.

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Looking Glass
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:46:02 PM

@ Jawknee

The "cardboard cutout" thing you mention is actually better known as the Visual Novel style of presentation.

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Highlander
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:41:58 PM

@Looking Glass

I think that is a great illustration of the problems we face here. Jawknee sees that story telling style and uses the characterization "cardboard cutout" which, like it or not, has negative connotations. Rather than seeing the Visual Novel style for what it is, it's characterized in a negative manner. Just as so much else about the JRPG is - in the west - characterized in ways that have negative connotations.

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Beamboom
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 8:32:04 AM

Isn't the "cardboard cutout" style also used in western games like inFamous, not just jrpgs? Or am I misunderstanding what you guys mean here?


Last edited by Beamboom on 10/17/2011 8:33:13 AM

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Looking Glass
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 10:46:28 AM

@ Beamboom

No. The style that you're referring to with games like inFAMOUS is the Motion Comic style. The Visual Novel style is something entirely different.

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Beamboom
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 10:53:48 AM

Oh! Alright. Thanks for clarifying, I had a feeling I was wrong. :)

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JDC80
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 11:27:13 PM
Reply

PGU: Just finished off "Spider-Man Edge of Time" and "Dead Island" kinda surprised the final boss wasn't that hard considering the horde I had to fight through just to get the roof to face him. So the plan now is get Batman Arkham City and a few weeks later get Uncharted 3 when they ship on the 31st.

Got a question people are asking me what I want for Christmas I already said NHL 12 but I'm not sure about NBA 2k12 from the things I'm hearing the players and owners are light years apart on agreeing on a new CBA. So I'm not sure I would want a game where the season doesn't happen. I already got most of the rookies that were in this year draft class in NBA 2k11. So should I still get it and hope the season starts at some point or ask something else?

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StubbornScorpio
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 11:30:36 PM
Reply

Current generation hardware is the real culprit here because of graphical limits. Realism breeds believability, and why WOULDN'T people appreciate that? Still, seeing a game like Ni no Kuni using the PS3's power to churn out a beautiful anime-like aesthetic is sooooo damn refreshing.

For Uncharted 3, people just have high expectations and it's a matter of self-control to preserve the game's magic.

PGU: I finally got around to finishing ICO & Shadow of the Colossus. These games have had such a profound effect on me, easily moved into my top 10 all-time favorites list. Now onto the Portal 2 Peer Review co-op with my sis :)

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Alienange
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 11:31:51 PM
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I'll be honest, I think the UC franchise suffers from linearitis. People know full well that there's no real exploring, side quests or other distractions in the game. It's a linear action adventure. So if someone can get through part 3 in 9 hours, well... that's 3 less than the last game. You can't sit here and say, "yeah, but that's because he just ran through the story" because the story is all there is.

Am I to think that the mp will add longevity? If that's the case then where are the adds? Where is the publisher's backing saying "hey, this is fantastic mp!"

It's not there. And that makes me think twice about spending that kind of money on a short adventure.

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bigrailer19
Saturday, October 15, 2011 @ 11:39:29 PM

What you said about the linear experience and "the stories all there", isn't always the case. You can run through a linear experience. Here's an example I believe the first time I played GoW it took me probably 10 hours. But in the HD collection there is a trophy for beating the game in under 5. So yes even linear games you can run through, literally by-passing the story.

But I'm with you on some level. I think somewhere in there I get that if Uncharted 3 is a couple hours shorter than the first 2 then that will be a little frustrating. I know for me it will. But I will still enjoy it! ;)

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/15/2011 11:44:11 PM

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Alienange
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:02:59 AM

Enjoy it? No doubt in my mind about that. Disappointed in its length? That's a whole different thing. I would have much preferred to hear that the game had 20 or even 25 hours of gameplay.

But who knows, maybe the mp will be fantastic and will make it all worthwhile. We'll see what the critics say.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:10:30 AM

I don't like the implication that just because a game is linear, it takes everyone the same amount of time to finish it.

It insinuates that these games are somehow lesser in quality - which in my experience, is rarely the case - and it also makes far too many assumptions about any supposed "universality" of gamer tendencies.

Some people might want to try and get all the hidden treasures. Some people might play more defensively because they don't like to die as often. Some people might cut CGI scenes short. Some people might find particular situations and bosses more difficult than others, thereby increasing play time.

Open-endedness and freedom is not the be-all and end-all of interactive entertainment, regardless of popular belief. And just as easily as someone could normally finish Uncharted 3 in 8 hours, someone else could take 13. That's a huge difference.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:13:02 AM

And as a further comment on length: there should be no length "milestone" any game has to hit in order to be considered "good." That's like saying a book needs to be so many pages in order to be worth reading.

It's an entertainment experience and if the vision of the artist(s) in question can be satisfied in two hours, and it doesn't feel rushed or tedious, than two hours is the correct length. Whether a game is 5 hours or 20 hours, we still have to take the exact same elements into account.

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StubbornScorpio
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:30:19 AM

Ben you put that perfectly. Honestly I wanted to make a response to Alienage as well, but you've said it better than I could have hoped to put it.

People seem so focused on numbers; the quality of the game shouldn't be impacted by the length of its campaign. ICO was one of the shortest (if not THE shortest) game I've ever played, yet it had the strongest emotional impact out of any video game I've ever played. I put huge value on that.

I mentioned it in the other article concerning Uncharted's length that basing your gaming habits on another person's play experience is fruitless, no two gamers will play exactly the same way. That's the beauty of it.

Last edited by StubbornScorpio on 10/16/2011 12:32:58 AM

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Beamboom
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 5:47:46 AM

@Stubborn: I don't think Uncharted works as a good example of a game where "no two players will play the exact same way".
Generally speaking that's exactly what you have to do: You *have* to move to a certain spot, have to take down the guards in a particular order to succeed, you have to step on those specific stones to climb the wall, you have to unlock that door to get to the next stage etc. Generally speaking players have to play the same way. That's the principle…

Let's use another game as an example of the opposite: Fallout 3. There you can start talking about "not two gamers" etc. They probably don't even look the same, or have the same skills. I spent an insane amount of time just to explore and figure out small things that often even were nothing. You just don't have these things in games like Uncharted. Therefore the playthrough of Fallout 3 can be something between (oh I don't know, picking random numbers here) 3 hours and 130 hours.

now I am not implying anything negative about linear games here. I am just pointing out an objective difference.

I think this is part of what the point Alien try to make too. He's not saying that the experience is any lesser in quality because of that. And it's not. It's just a property of these kind of games.

And with a "cinema experience" like Uncharted, why complain over 8-10 hours anyway? That's one hell of a long movie!


Last edited by Beamboom on 10/16/2011 5:58:34 AM

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StubbornScorpio
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:11:50 PM

@Beamboom: Alienage uses the word "linearitis" like it's some sort of plague on the game world. He seems to be making the argument that he wants more than story in the Uncharted games, more features the expand the length of time of the quest. Also, if you live here in the U.S., Sony is definitely pushing Uncharted 3's multiplayer with the Subway deal, FULL access to the multiplayer feature of the game.

I can see you make valid points for the way gamers play and how it's limited in linear games. But still, some players take longer on a certain puzzle or enemy firefight while others will just fly through the sections. It isn't just about the objective, it's HOW players get there.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:12:57 PM

Beamboom: You must not have read my post. We're well aware that everyone has to do the same things. But how we approach those things, how difficulty they are for certain people, and how people play the game (offensive vs. defensive) can have a drastic impact on game length.

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Lairfan
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:54:04 PM

Alienange, have you even paid attention to anything ND's said about Uncharted 3? If "this is going to be the go-to multiplayer experience on PS3" and the Subway promotions for MULTIPLAYER aren't enough promotion for the multiplayer for you, then I doubt anything will ever be.

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Beamboom
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 7:47:21 AM

@Ben: I replied to Stubborns post and his claim that not two players will play the same way. I believe they do, generally speaking.
I did read your posts too, just didn't comment on them.

Of course your skill and offensive/defensive style will affect game length. Isn't that obvious? I just think that it will mean noteably *less* than in less linear games. I believe that is the point Alien tried to make. That's all, really. :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 10/17/2011 8:37:38 AM

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Underdog15
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 10:13:04 AM

@Ben
I half agree with out about length vs. quality. I definitely agree that using length as a factor to a good score only really affects replay values. If a game is good, it's good.

But I do think a game can be too short, regardless of the production values.

However, with Uncharted, based on my experience with the past 2 Uncharteds, I know that even if I beat it the first time in 10 hours, I know I'll go back for more. I know I'll want to beat crushing, and that I want to find all the treasures. I know it will get me something like 25 hours or more of playing bliss. So, for me, I don't see it as a 10 hour game.

However, if I wasn't into all that, and just wanted to play for the story, then yeah... 10 hours might be all I play. And then, it would be too short for me to make an early purchase. It would wait, no matter how good. I try to keep my gaming purchases budgeted by dollars per hour spent. I'm will to play a great game for $3 per hour. Anything from pretty good to less, I'd better get $2 per hour or less. So, if Uncharted 3 only gave me 10 hours, regardless of how good it is, I would be paying $6 per hour for a $60 game. I wouldn't get it until it cost $30.

But based on previous Uncharteds, I know I'll get 25-ish hours guaranteed, if not more. So I can warrant a $60 day one purchase.

I bought ICO/SotC day one this year, but it had a great price point to start. I also got WKC2 and MLB11 the show day one. MLB got me near 80 hours this year and WKC2 has already gotten me 50 or so hours this month, as it's been my exclusive game of choice...

Know what I mean?

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DazeOfWar
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:03:54 AM
Reply

I could care less what the length is on U3. I'm buying and will enjoy the hell out of it no matter what.

PGU: I just platinum'd inFamous 2 today. Really enjoyed the game. I started playing a little Ico and have enjoyed so far. I plan on starting something else which was going to be RAGE but now I kind of want to start Yakuza 3. Last but not least I can't wait to pick up Batman Tuesday. The game is going to be awesome.

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dmiitrie
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 1:13:17 AM
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While I'm sure that UC3 will be just as good as the previous two, I do wish that it was longer (as I wish that the first two were longer).

And as far as JRPGs go, I don't see why they and gritty realism need to be mutually exclusive. Now, I understand that not everyone is a fan of that and I'm glad that there are alternatives out there for these people, but when I look at my favourite JRPGs of the last 4 gens (FF6, FFT, FFX, and Lost Odyssey), I notice that they all have things in common that are absent from today's games (I'm going off of reviews and screen shots as none of the more recent JRPGs have interested me enough to purchase. If I'm overlooking any game, please feel free to correct me): lack of the anime style, the main characters are adults, they have complex and mature themes, and their overall tone is fairly gritty.

Once again, I know there are people who like the things I dislike, and I'm glad they have games. But surely I'm not the only person who would enjoy something that looked and felt more like L5R and less like Innuyasha.

PGU: although I came back to DA:O briefly today, most of my free time (rare though that's been lately) has been spent with TW: Shogun 2. And once I've had my fill of that, I'll probably go to Dawn of War and then Dawn of War 2.

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Snaaaake
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 1:25:32 AM
Reply

Well anime-like games don't have to JRPG, look at Bleach Soul Resurreccion(which I'm close to Plat) and Ultimate Ninja Storm 2, felt like playing and watching anime at the same time.

Ni No Kuni is already looking like a contender for RPG of the year aside from Mass Effect 3.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 2:59:36 AM
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I find Uncharted to be quite colourful; both in terms of visuals and the story. Sure, there's always some sort of dark undertone, but really, theres nothing too sinister. I reckon the game could pass as a 13 rating rather than a 15, minus the few curse words.

About the length - why do people even care? Unless its un-reasonably short, theres nothing to complain about; it takes as long as it takes. I honestly never notice how long a game takes. That said, when going into the stats screen on Uncharted 2 after my first playthrough, I was at 13 hours. I actually though I had played more than that; I'm pretty sure I spent atleast half an hour on each chapter just walking around, admiring the landscape. Its actually a bit scary looking at that stat; I finished the game in 1 and a half days - that means I spent roughly 13/36 hours playing a game. :0

PGU: Stopped playing the UC3 beta as I'm enjoying it too much (lolwut). I want to experiance it first hand in the real game. Also, anyone else going to re-play Uncharted 1 & 2 before they play UC3? I am :D

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Lawless SXE
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 3:46:22 AM

Definitely going through the earlier UC games in preparation. I'm amped.

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TheCanadianGuy
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 10:05:16 AM

i'm getting so damn pumped for UC3 xD i just finished replaying UC 1&2 in preparation. for it.

PGU decided to celebrate GTA III's 10th anniversary (Next saturday) by replaying it so started that on my ps2 lastnight. 10 years later its still a blast to play holds up so well today.

Last edited by TheCanadianGuy on 10/16/2011 10:14:50 AM

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Gordo
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 3:36:06 AM
Reply

I've still got Eternal Sonata in my collection. It is a beautiful game. Definately takes me back to a more innocent time!

Doesn't seem like jRPGs are keeping up evolutionary wise in this generation. I'm not sure if people have the time or inclination for a nice, traditional, cerebral, turn based adventure anymore...
(present company excepted)

Last edited by Gordo on 10/16/2011 3:36:40 AM

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Highlander
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:50:43 PM

Huh?

"Doesn't seem like jRPGs are keeping up evolutionary wise in this generation. "

Why do any games in any game genre have to keep up with the 'evolution' of games in any other genre? That very comment betrays your own thinking that somehow JRPGs are behind the times, less evolved, less advanced. You know, once you get something right, it's 'evolution' tends to slow down - drastically. I don't see the need to 'evolve' here at all. Just about the only thing JRPG fans wanted out of this generation was higher definition graphics in the same styles that they were already happy with, and longer, bigger games that take advantage of the power and storage of the system. So far, very few have met that expectation. Ironically, WKC2 is one of the few that has.

So, what it the need for evolution, and how have JRPGs not 'evolved'?

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R3ZR
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 4:23:18 AM
Reply

in my personal opinion, the Uncharted games were both paced well, and the length of each were both perfect. why? because they are both storytelling games, the reason i played each was for their stories, and if a story is too long it gets boring, tedious and sometimes repetitive. i think ND makes brilliant
games, but i wouldnt want an Uncharted game to become tedious and tiring because the story doesnt seem to be progressing..thats just my peraonal opinion tho :)

PU: i have both nba2k12 and fifa12 that ive been going away at. both are rather solid sport sims if i could say. ive also replayed uncharted 1 and going to go through 2 this week..other than that just waiting for Batman to show up :) camt wait :)

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Beamboom
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 5:31:36 AM
Reply

Regarding the jrpg discussion I would like to point you all to two very interesting articles published this last week:

1up: Why we play japanese games
Discuss the differences between wrpg and jrpg and their history.
http://www.1up.com/features/why-we-play-japanese-games

IGN: The Art Styles of Japanese & Western Games
A summary of the panel discussion at Comic Con hosted by Square-Enix.
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/120/1200401p1.html

They are both very good reads.

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Vivi_Gamer
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 6:47:58 AM
Reply

You haven't completed Catherine! How could you start it and not finish it! Seriously, The story is so engaging, I could not put it down until I at least got gold on all of the stages.

Catherine could be the suprise hit of this gen. It has everything, an engaging story, a puzzle gameplay system which never gets frustrating (Even if you die a lot.), a great cast of characters with superb voice acting. A soundtrack with variations of classical themes. Even a co-op mode which seems a sin for this gen as all multiplayer HAS to be online. This game just gets everything right, I'll post my review on the forum later.

Last edited by Vivi_Gamer on 10/16/2011 6:48:18 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:13:55 PM

Well, I have other things to do. :)

Besides, it takes me a while to finish some of those puzzles; I'm not very good at it.

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Danny007
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:15:50 AM
Reply

Me + My PS3 + Tuesday = Batman: Arkham City + Payday: The Heist + Rocksmith = Excitement :)

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frylock25
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:58:01 AM
Reply

tueday is a one day sale on amazon. all video games gold box starting at midnight pacific time.

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Danny007
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 2:23:07 PM

Oh yes, I just read that in my email. I hope they have some good stuff this time. The last one wasn't that great.

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Kevin5
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 8:05:36 AM
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I've been playing Dark Souls & i am loving it! Talk about a challenge, it's exactly the type of game i can easily dig into. It's cruel & unforgiving but i have a glutton for gaming punishment.

I am also trying very hard to avoid any spoilers & new gameplay videos on Uncharted 3 which isn't an easy task to do. I want to enjoy that game in it's entirety without some flog who rushes through the game in 8 hours ruining it for others just so he can say "i beat the gaem first lolz & it rawks!" I had to suffer that sh!t with Heavy Rain when some forum punk ruined it for me.

Uncharted 3 is a game that i am going to need just to chill out in & enjoy after all the fury & anger that Dark Souls causes.

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burnedknight
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 11:53:03 AM
Reply

I'm not really worried about uncharted 3 length either as looking for treasures and if you want to platinum it you'll need multiple playthroughs so length will be fine.

PGU after picking WKC2 i've been playing the first one before I start the second and I gotta say i'm enjoying it. Don't really see why the reviews were so bad.

Ni no kuni is now on my radar after seeing more video's. Level 5 looks to be jrpg king now

Last edited by burnedknight on 10/16/2011 12:00:56 PM

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Highlander
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:51:23 PM

Ecellent, perhaps we will see you online soon then...

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sirbob6
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 12:16:26 PM
Reply

Dark Souls finally arrived Tuesday after I pre-ordered it in May. I have been playing it constantly ever since.

I'm enjoying every minute of it but something is really bugging me. The game seems way too easy. I went into the first five boss fights without dying once(I died in between the bosses though). The hardest thing in the game seems to be how aggressive all the normal enemies are.

Overall though I am loving it. The general enhancements of everything is fantastic. I love all the new attacks, moves, abilities, etc. And the enemy variety is amazing plus all the new weapons and armor is fantastic.

The online is an enormous improvement on a system that was already excellent. The addition of covenants was a stroke of genius. All the different perks they give you is so fun to play with.

Overall I love it and I will be playing this until Christmas and most likely a while after that.

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rell
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 1:46:08 PM
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I know uc3 will be good, actually i think people shouldn't freak about the length. Uc gameplay is always fun. Next month skyrim is one of my biggest game of this year next too wkc2. November will be a busy month for us gamers.

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rell
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 1:57:20 PM
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OT: @Ben did u ever reveal that tru blue game? Also Ben do u know when The Journey is coming out?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:14:28 PM

I don't know what "tru blue" game you're talking about.

As for Journey, it's early next year, I believe.

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Looking Glass
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 7:52:47 PM
Reply

There you go again Ben. Talking about the "demise" of the JRPG genre and whatnot.

True. The genre is not as popular as it once was. But it's far from dead. It's alive and well and that isn't showing any signs of changing. I hope you're looking forward to Tales of Graces F, Ni no Kuni, Atelier Meruru (hopefully that's going to get localized too), and perhaps to a lesser extent Neptunia Mk2.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 8:18:59 PM

If you read more closely, you'd know I'm not talking about the "demise" of anything, not in the literal sense. I'm talking about the JRPG's greatly lessened popularity this generation due to changing industry trends. That's hardly anything but fact.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/16/2011 8:19:29 PM

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Looking Glass
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:12:42 PM

Well in that case you're really not using the word demise correctly. No matter which way you cut it the word demise refers to death. Not decline or anything along those lines.

Last edited by Looking Glass on 10/16/2011 9:16:00 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:29:13 PM

It is a death. It's the death of the genre's popularity and it hints at the ultimate death of the sub-genre. Demise is exactly what it is because it seems inevitable and irreversible.

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Looking Glass
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 6:38:35 AM

I wouldn't call it a "death" of the genre's popularity. More like a decline in popularity. But it might simply depend on your point of view.

Inevitable and irreversible you say? I think not. I'm not entirely sure why you seem to continue to believe that the JRPG genre is doomed to die in spite of evidence to the contrary. But then again I guess there's no point in debating or arguing the point because I think it's a safe bet that time will tell which one of us is right.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 9:55:41 AM

There's no evidence besides sales numbers and review scores, all of which are much lower this generation for the JRPG genre. ...if you want to play the ostrich and not see that, that's your business. Those of us in the industry can't really avoid it.

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Looking Glass
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 11:14:51 AM

The review scores alone don't matter. In the end the most important thing are the sales numbers.

And whether or not a game is a commercial success depends on if it actually makes a profit. And whether or not it makes a profit depends largely on how much money it's makers spend while making it. A JRPG may not sell like Call of Duty but depending on the budget it may not need to sell like that to be successful.

A good example of such a game is probably Hyperdimension Neptunia. That game got a lot of lackluster review scores but it was still financially successful. The trick is making a good game, or at least a reasonably appealing one, while keeping the budget relatively low. And by the way this is something that Gust Inc in particular is very good at. And sure enough Atelier Rorona has been a commercially successful game too. And while it might be too soon to make a definitive call with Disgaea 4 so far NIS has said that the game's sales have been going okay.

Or simply put, different games and different kinds of games have different standards of success. The loyal JRPG fanbase may not be particularly large but it doesn't need to be for the genre to survive. And I get the impression that a number of JRPG fans are learning not to care what reviewers think (no offense intended Ben) if Hyperdimension Neptunia is any indication.

I'm not saying that all JRPGs are necessarily doing well sales wise. But all things considered I firmly believe that the genre in general is doing well enough to survive, and maybe even thrive in some ways.

But, as I indicated before, time should tell which one of us is right.

Last edited by Looking Glass on 10/17/2011 11:20:42 AM

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BikerSaint
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 8:33:58 PM
Reply

For me almost all game seem to take me at least & 1/2 the hours to finish, than what length is usually stated for them, so no worries for U3.
Anyways, I'd rather take my time moseying right along sightseeing through most games, if I can.

As for my PGU, haven't been gaming much as I've just finished up my gaming safari & I've been too busy doing my pain-in-the butt cataloging of everything I just got on this trip.
I've added a few more colored PSP's into my collection,
Hannah Montana - metallic lavender/lilac?
MGS - Camo green
MGS - metallic hunter green
Monster Hunter - metallic brown w/ dragons(Japan Import w/crossed x&o buttons)
G.O.W. - metallic red(this was one of the 2 ebay items that I had to harass the seller into finally sending, but after having to resort to veiled threats, he's finally sent it & given me the tracking #) Damned A-hole!!!

I also picked up a GS refurbed 60GB Phat Princess to replace the one the gorilla package bunglers smashed, & I promptly put a 750 GB HD in her, so she'll be quite the ever-loving glazed donut w/extra sprinkles eating fattie now.

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BikerSaint
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 8:44:37 PM
Reply

HIGHLANDER....HELP ME (PLEASE)

I bought a 1T HD & a 750 HD for my 320 Move bundled Slim, but for some effing reason she won't allow me into the XMB screen with either of them, & not even with trying the 60GB HD out of my 60 gigger, saying that I have to update to FW(which I had done as soon as it came out).

I even did a quick re-format, and then also popped each of the new HD's into my older 60 & did re-format's with them in too, with no problems. but when I re inserted each one back into my Slim, I keep getting the same " you must update to the latest FW, which of course was already done. But when I put it's original 320HD back in, she's wonderfully OK with it & everything's back to normal(plus she shows that she was updated to the current FW).
GRRRRRRRR!

So now since I'm not tech-savvy, I don't know what else to do, so I've hit the longer full format button & my god, that's going to take 18 & 1/2 hours long just to do a full re-format.

So now I'm just sitting here for almost 2 & 1/4 hours in, and I'm beginning to steadily curse away because it's only at 11% done so far & I've got another 16 hours & 12 minutes to go before it's finished & then I can try swapping HD's out for another whole day wasted once again. "Yipee for me"

Any tips or Ideas why my new 320 slim isn't accepting another HD, when my older 60 phat princess will accept every since one, including 640, 750, a even a 1T HD(I've tried Toshiba, WD, Seagate, & Samsung, so I'm thinking that the problem is with my PS3, & not the HD's themselves)???????

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Highlander
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:29:34 PM

The only thing I can tell you is that it may well be the formatting of the drive. Every replacement drive I've ever put in a system I ran the 'full format' option. If you don't there is a chance that the PS3 might see the drive as already formatted, and expect firmware to be on it. If you put the 1TB drive in the other system and allowed it to boot to the drive, the 320 might see that disc as coming from another PS3 and require that full format.

If I remember correctly, the full format option will put enough of the firmware that's in your system ROM on the drive to allow it to boot. Because there are elements of the firmware that reside on the HDD, I think that the system will want a full copy of the firmware downloaded and installed to ensure that the elements that reside on the HDD are valid. That will generally mean the latest revision is required.

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BikerSaint
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 1:14:59 AM

Thanks Highlander,
I've never did a full format with my Phat 60 gigger, just popped the new HD in, & it went right into XMB screen & which then asked for the smaller "quick" format.

I certainly hope the full re-format works, especially since it's 18 & 1/2 hours long to do it. Any reasons why it takes that long?

As I said before, I tried all the new HD's in my slim "first". And only then once none of them worked, my bright(or not so bright???) idea was to try formatting them through my 60 GB PS3 & hopefully that way they'd all show my slim that the 3.72 version was on them(BTW, they all registered their available GB's just fine on my Phat 60 gigger).

But once in my 320GB Move bundled slim, it won't even open up into the XMBscreen(or asking to do quick re-format).
Yet, if I put the original 320GB HD back in it, it zooms right into XMB, no problem t'all.

With this new slim, it won't even open to any screen, just a couple messages that lead me down the path to this final set.....
"If system can't be re-started, the system partition of the hard disk must be re-formatted & you must use the system software".

And then this....

"Connect storage media that contains update data of version 3.72 or later, then press start & select together"

Sooooo, I also went ahead & D/led the same 3.72 update once again, but this time onto a USB stick. But since I can't even get a screen with the 1T HD in it, how can using the USB stick even work???(but I will still give it a try after another 11 hours & 42 minutes are finally over with on this full formatting(if that dosen't fix it)....

Anyway, I'll keep ya posted on my results, I think this formatting should be finished somewhere after 2PM.

ARRRGGGHHHH, I'm so glad my hair's already gone to all grey!



Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/17/2011 1:21:37 AM

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 @ 12:28:50 AM

OK,
here's the results of doing the 18 & 1/2 hour long "full" re-format.

Nada, ziltch, waste of time, nothing....
..it didn't do anything to help at all.


But..... the good news in this whole story is that here's the super-easy fix for it....

1. Just D/L the newest update from the PSN onto a USB stick,

2. Then stick your USB stick into your PS3,

3. Then hook up your controller's charging/data cord up to the controller & the PS3.

4. Press the "PS" button on your controller

5. Once the screen prompts you, hit "Start" & "Select" at the same time

6. Then follow the "format" instruction prompts on your PS3.

AND YOU'RE ALL DONE!
BTW, Once you've inserted your USB stick into the PS3, the whole procedure should only take about 10-15 minutes from start to finish.
-------------

FYI, This whole situation certainly was a trying time for me these last 2 days, so I hope my own fiasco will at least help anyone else who get's into the same HD upgrade problem with the newer PS3 "slim" models as I have too.



Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/18/2011 12:30:56 AM

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Highlander
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:21:48 PM
Reply

Ben,

Are you turning in your JRPG fan card with this comment?

"These bright, non-bloody JRPGs with younger-looking anime characters just seem to be falling by the wayside. So when I see Ni no Kuni commercials, or I hear about the Tales series, I keep thinking they just don't fit anymore."

Seriously, if these bright, cheerful, non-bloody JRPGs no longer fit, then I can hang up my controller. I don't think that you can say they don't fit. It might be fair to day that the RPG genre has a new sub genre or two that encompass the dark, bloody and/or sci-fi RPGs. But the day that bright, non-bloody, cheerful JRPGs with their your cutesy characters and whimsy no longer fit in the RPG genre is the day that gaming dies to me.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 9:28:07 PM

Oh, no. That's just a general industry-related comment. Even if they don't ever "fit" again, I'll always want to play them. :)

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Highlander
Sunday, October 16, 2011 @ 10:01:06 PM

Perhaps - as I have said for at least three years now, the industry is missing a huge opportunity there? The generations of gamers that love the JRPG are older, they are not really the target of the gaming industry. The gaming industry seems to target younger male gamers. Games are - in my opinion - more aggressive, violent and action laden than ever before.

So, why is the industry not segmenting and targeting that rather large group of gamers that are 30+ and have been gaming for 20+ years and like some of the genre of games that are less well catered to? You can't treat the entire gaming population as a single market, when you do you target the lowest common denominator. That leaves a lot of people out.

The JRPG is a genre that to me, seems particularly susceptible to the impact of this inability to see other market segments and cater to them. 'evolving' the JRPG towards the lowest common denominator moves it away from it's core audience. It effectively sacrifices the known audience for a potential audience that may not want JRPGs at all.

The other point that comes to mind is that JRPGs still fit very well in Japan. They might not fit so well in the western markets that are absorbed by their love affair with gritty, realistic, violent shooters and action games with dark or sci-fi themes. Seems like once again the western love of violence takes a victim.

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Beamboom
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 8:26:44 AM

Guys, the only thing we know for sure about trends is that they shift.

And High, I believe the point you are making about generations of gamers are spot on, and thus the industry will change with it. Just look at other, older entertainment markets, like movies, there are plenty quality movies made for more or less all generations and preferences. I expect the same to happen with video games when the industry "mature".

We are just the first generation gamers, so we are "on the fringe" of the market in that sense (I assume you are more or less in my age category).


Last edited by Beamboom on 10/17/2011 8:28:03 AM

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Underdog15
Monday, October 17, 2011 @ 10:21:03 AM

All I know is that I would be willing to part with far more money on the industry the generation if more games I felt deserved my money were released. As is, I wait out for most of my purchases to drop. Most of my purchases are -NOT- day one... or even week one.

If there were more top notch jRPG's like the PS1 and even PS2 days, I would be spending more money on games. I guarantee it. I know my personal circle of friends isn't the best case study to examine, but I can promise you the same is the case for them as well.

I'd like to think there are many more like us holding out... for.... something....

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