: Final Fantasy VII Is Still Amazing

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Final Fantasy VII Is Still Amazing

Call it nostalgia, call it overstating, call it a failure to recognize flaws due to fan bias. Call it whatever the hell you want. Final Fantasy VII is still freakin' amazing.

Thing is, all that great technology (which I absolutely do appreciate) hasn't only changed the way we see our video games; it has changed the way we play them, too. You just don't see games like this anymore; they're not made the same way. And you can tell Squaresoft put a ridiculous amount of time and effort into mastering the formula game makers (and specifically RPG creators) used back in the day.

It's not just turn-based that we don't have anymore; we don't have this fantastically paced, endlessly interesting and imaginative, character and story-driven RPG that isn't trying to give you more choices or freedom, that isn't trying to involve other players, and that isn't introducing elements of other genres. It's doing what Square always did best: it's telling a story, keeping you involved, and spinning it all out in a breathtaking, engaging world full of life, mystery and adventure.

People can say they don't like the first five or six hours, when you're "stuck" in Midgar and don't yet have access to the world map. But after playing through it again, I'm reminded of just how much storyline and character development is involved in that introductory section. And furthermore, look at what you do: you explore slums and a market, dress up as a girl to get into a playboy's mansion, invade Shinra HQ, and escape on a motorcycle that even involves a mini-game.

There's never a dull moment. The pacing just blows my mind. Look at the outside- from Midgar to Kalm (a huge part of the story) to the Chocobo farm to Junon to Costa del Sol to Corel the Golden Saucer to Cosmo Canyon to Nibelheim...no two places are even remotely similar, no two places have you doing the same thing, and every single design, story, and gameplay element just seems to work. Factor in the strategic aspects of the Materia and your growing party, and this is a true-blue addictive masterpiece.

I just don't know why they don't make games like this anymore. I'm not saying we don't have great RPGs; I'm just wondering why this particular format and style had to die. Too slow for the twitchers? Not flashy enough? Those answers don't make much sense; Skyrim may not be turn-based but it's hardly CoD; patience and diligence is a definite virtue, and that game shipped 10 million copies. Besides, can you imagine what some of the cut-scenes in FFVII would look like with modern graphics? Or the Summons?

I guess I just don't understand why this had to die. I may be a fan but I quickly notice games that don't age well, that just aren't the gems they were way back when. I notice them all the time. But FFVII withstands every test of time I can think of, save one: the control. In any 3D world, the analog is just always better to have. Not having the option and having to determine exactly what is up, down, left and right in parts of FFVII (like in Junon) can be just a little frustrating.

But beyond that...damn. 'cries'

12/16/2011 Ben Dutka

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Comments (98 posts)

Warrior Poet
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 9:37:16 PM
Reply

A game that was great once will always be great regardless of the new technology. A game with great art will always be pretty. I agree with you. FFVII has awesome pacing and it is a lot of fun! It did have some problems like the ridiculous writing, but I keep listening to the music. It's really good music.

I don't think it's fair to say that these games have died, since they're as great as ever and more accessible and affordable than ever...But they certainly aren't growing like they used to. I would like to see more games like them for sure.

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Oyashiro
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 9:58:01 PM
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Out of all the games I have played in the 23 years of being alive. I have yet to play a game that was a great as FFVII. And no, It was not my first FF, and I beat VI before playing VII.

People often use the "Nostalgia" excuse as if they are saying there is no way a game made in the 90's could best the ones made today. I say BS to that!

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Dancemachine55
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 10:05:40 PM
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Without a doubt, the finest game ever produced. Only game that successfully brought a tear to my eye at one moment. (You fans know which one)

Best of all, no online, no updates, no forced Facebook, the graphics were amazing for it's time, the FMV's are still amazing to this day, it was just you, the player, and the game!

Final Fantasy VII and Metal Gear Solid rate amongst my favourite games of all time, next to Heavy Rain, Mass Effect 2 and Skyrim (on PC)

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Dancemachine55
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 10:16:45 PM

Speaking of online and Facebook, just letting you know, DON'T GET ORIGIN!!!

I purchased Back to Karkand expansion FOUR TIMES in an attempt to get it working. No update, no activation, no downloads, nothing!!! Even after buying it FOUR TIMES it still said I needed to buy it to play online with friends.

I've emailed EA support about it, given them my details, credit card info, even a screen capture of my bank statement showing the four purchases of the same item!!! An online service SHOULD NOT do that!! What happened to purchase trackers?!?! Immediate updates?!?

Origin is the worst online service I've experienced. I'm gonna stick with Steam or consoles. All the effort put into playing the PC version of a game is not worth it, just for slightly prettier graphics. I'll stick with my consoles.

Anyone else run into similar problems with Origin?

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BikerSaint
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:30:51 AM

Dancemachine55,
Yes, Origin is a total mess.

As I just stated in a previous thread, BF3 has just has a tri-folded insert that tells you to go to Origin to get the D/L manual.
But the site map was totally useless & it took me about an hour to hunt around in there & find it myself. And only after I D/L'ed it, I found out it was for the PC, even though it stated it was the PS3 version.

So I said eff it & Googled the info I wanted.

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johnld
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 4:02:41 PM

theres two games that got to me to the point of tears final fantasy 7 and valkyria chronicles.

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Rogueagent01
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 6:35:42 PM

Same here John! FFVII was the first to get me to shed a tear and scream at the TV, however Valkyria Chronicles was the second. At a certain chapter with a certain character I was thinking this game is great, and then I jumped it up to EPIC when that certain thing happened. I showed that part to my friend and tried my hardest not to cry in front of him, and he just sat there and said nothing. I wasn't even able to talk as it would have given away the fact that I wanted to cry.

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SolidFantasy
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 10:16:29 PM
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You're damn right it's still amazing!
The nostalgia is down right overwhelming but when you look back on 97 this game was so far ahead of it's time. It just blew our minds and help prove what games are really capable of. As soon as I finish off FFIX on my PSP I think I will DL FFVII to play on the road.

My ring tone for my phone is the victory song from FFVII. Just like Loz's from Advent Children. So when ever someone calls me I momentarily get sucked back to my aunts house when I was 10 or something and watching my cousin run around on the World map.

SO MANY GOOD MEMORIES. It just never gets old.

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chilker
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:29:01 AM

My ring tone is that fanfare too, from the soundtrack! And my text message sound is the sound you hear when you load a game in FF7.
Man, that game is so fantastic. I'm playing it through again right now. I just saved Corel and Fort Condor on disc 2. I love Final Fantasy VII so much. I continue to be amazed by it as I'm playing it on my PSP whenever I travel or have some down time. The story keeps you engaged. There's no REASON to have all the random side quests so prevalent in modern RPGs. Why would I want to do pointless things on the side when I have a planet to save!? Though it's not really urgent, the game makes you feel every action is urgent and that the world is going to end if you don't do something RIGHT NOW. Of course, I really could just go and raise and breed chocobos for 20 hours and nothing bad would happen but, like you said, Ben, the pacing is brilliant and... I love this game. I can say without a doubt that Final Fantasy VII is what pulled me into gaming.

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johnld
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 4:05:21 PM

i got the final fantasy fanfare ringtone in preparation for final fantasy 13, which it turned out wasnt in the damn game at all. my text message sound is snakes codec.

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Riku994
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 10:31:27 PM
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PS1 games that need a full blown HD remake:

FF7-9, Legend of Dragoon, Chrono Trigger (never played, it would give me a damn good excuse to), Resident Evil 1-3, Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation.. There's surely a ton more, but these ones are at the top of my list.

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cLoudou
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 10:55:31 PM

I have no faith in Square Enix to allow them to make a full blown remake. They are just gonna eff it up in the end trying to appeal to the Western Twitch gamers .

Last edited by cLoudou on 12/16/2011 10:55:57 PM

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Temjin001
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 11:10:26 PM
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I think that's the great thing about our favorite games. The games that manage to step outside of the collective of gaming and are attached to us in a special way. Many of my favorite games still feel great to me. Whether it's classic FFVI, Street Fighter II, or NES Ninja Gaiden. The magic I felt for them yesterday is still felt today. It's like I wear a different set of eyes when playing them. I think we all have those games that feel perfect to us. I think a reason for that is because it's those special games that seemingly felt perfectly entertaining that represent a source of what drives our passion behind gaming to begin with, where that feeling is sought again from the newer games. That next big game that can make us feel just as entertained.

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ZenChichiri
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 11:25:08 PM
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Aw shucks you're making me want to play FFVII again. Maybe this time I can revive Aeris...even though I tried so hard using all those wonky internet guides and they all failed me!

You know what's fun to do? You name RedXIII "Nanaki" so that when you find out his real name in Cosmo Canyon they're like "Wait...Nanaki is Nanaki?!" like it's some sort of revelation. I was entertained by that ;)

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 11:49:17 PM

I name Red XIII Nanaki every time I play. ;)

And I remember you could get Aeris back with a Gameshark back in those days, but it could cause problems with the game.

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:41:15 AM

He was foreshadowing things to come...

Number XIII was red.... like a warning of things to come.... Scarred and decorated with a headdress to appeal to the masses. He appears to be experienced and old, but he's actually very young and immature in comparison to his species longevity.

His very character, despite being awesome, has some stark contrasts to the title FFXIII!

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ZenChichiri
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:40:34 AM

haha yah my friend used the gameshark to revive her but then permanently damaged his game. There was a black square blocking his path where you are climbing the rubish in Midgar at the near the beginning of the game.

It's nice to see her again, but knowing it's not part of the actual story is simply torture :(

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burnedknight
Friday, December 16, 2011 @ 11:33:39 PM
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That's why it's one of my favorites it's a great game that still is just as good today as it was back then

Thanks Ben now from all this talk of FFVII i'm gonna have to play it again

Last edited by burnedknight on 12/16/2011 11:41:01 PM

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maxpontiac
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:31:38 AM
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I honestly don't see it as anything more than the same reason Pong went the way of the dinosaurs. Just a simple evolution of the hobby we call gaming.

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:41:55 AM

So you were never big on FFVII? I just assumed since you just compared it to.... pong.

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Beamboom
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 5:16:31 AM

I don't think being compared to Pong is any insult? That game is one of the major milestones in the history of gaming!

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maxpontiac
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 9:49:10 AM

FFVII was a classic, and my reference to Pong was simply to say that great games of the past feature outdated gameplay even though they retain superb pacing and storytelling.

Plus there are plenty of games right now that do all three.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:01:18 AM

But there's nothing outdated about FFVII's gameplay. It's just different because we killed it off.

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maxpontiac
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 2:39:59 PM

Turn based gameplay may not be outdated to you and a select group of gamers, but as a whole it is. The action RPG like Skyrim is the way to go nowadays.

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 2:46:45 PM

Why is it outdated?

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daus26
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:15:24 PM

Well, that's the tough part really. We don't really know the exact reason on why it's outdated but it's pretty clear most developers have pretty much gone real time on their battle systems now. The only pure turn-based modern rpg I can think of that's still popular today worldwide is Pokemon. Can you imagine the reaction of people if Pokemon became real-time? Honestly, I wouldn't be sure which case (FF or Pokemon) is gonna suffer more backlash from its old fans that really likes the old turn-based style if that were to happen.

I think it's simply a natural evolution to gameplay, and this is just one, ultra-rare case where it can be regarded as unnecessary to many of its hardcore fans, for it to be completely abandoned. Usually, a natural evolution is something we have no problem leaving in the past. This is something different, obviously.

The only way to know for sure is to ask the developers themselves.

Last edited by daus26 on 12/17/2011 3:16:34 PM

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Warrior Poet
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 4:31:21 PM

There is no evolution in video games. Everything is by design - human design - and everything is either to make art or make money. Usually both. Turn-based can't be outdated any more than real-time can - in fact, games like Pong, Space Invaders, Defender, and Joust were all real-time games. It's silly to say an entire class of games are outdated because the computers can do more. The computers have always been able to do more...there were real-time games before there were silicon chips, man.

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maxpontiac
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 9:33:59 PM

Again, I am not saying the demise of turn based gameplay is a good thing. All I am stating is that outside of PSXE (others as well, I am sure) the support for FFVII systems is not what it used to be.

Lets take a look at Skyrim. It's an amazing experience with real time combat that is a financial success. It also sets the bar for what RPG's in 2011 and beyond should be. You know as well as I do that SE has noticed it, and I would be willing to bet that a FF in a setting similar to Skyrim would be one to remember.

It has to happen and it will happen. I for one am excited over the possibility, and why not?

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:50:26 AM
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Even my CoD-nut friends think on FFVII fondly.

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Teddie9
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:48:11 PM

that's nice, all my cod nut friends have never played an ff :(......

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Snaaaake
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 2:30:32 AM
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I think it's one of the best JRPG and perhaps, one of the best game ever.
FFVII was way way ahead of it's time back then.

Strange, how can a company gone from making revolutionary games to making good games.

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Naruto Uchiha
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:31:08 AM
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Couldn't have said it better myself! *cries with Ben*

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Jed
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:49:16 AM
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FFVII was the first Final Fantasy I ever heard of (I know, blasphemy). But a demo was on the sampler disc that came with my original playstation. I played it once and wasn't too impressed, but after trying it a few times, I loved it. It was cool because you could use all kinds of magic and summons right off the train at the beginning.

After playing through the demo several times, I knew I had to own the game. I can't imagine how much time I put into it, but I really loved it. It was my first taste of an RPG, let alone a JRPG. I saved up allowance money and whatnot until I had the fifty dollars to buy it, and it was the most I will ever get for 50 smackers.

To me, it is truly a masterpiece and THE greatest game of all time. I will never forget how I felt playing through that game. I really wish a quality HD remake with no changes to the gameplay would happen, but lately it seems that I am more likely to win the lottery than that happening. At least I can always play it on my PS3 or PSP whenever I lose track of what gaming should be.

GOD BLESS FFVII!

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ryu
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:58:54 AM
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for real this story comes up at least once a semester or something

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:02:10 AM

In about ten thousand articles, I've never once done one dedicated to FFVII.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 4:18:33 AM
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Sorry for this guys, but theres no hope in the hell that any game is better than MGS (as a series).

Anyone disagree? :P

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SolidFantasy
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 7:46:46 AM

It's close. For me it's a tie. As FFVII will always have a special place in my heart I could also give a seminar on why the Metal Gear series is the best of all time. They are both revolutionary in there own respects.

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 8:12:15 AM

I disagree

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:02:43 AM

Sorry, too many issues with basic control and a little bit of convoluted storyline for MGS to compete with FF in its heyday.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 2:26:17 PM

Well, let me clarify that I think MGS4 was the best of the series, so I'll use that to explain my points.

I think now that I've iterated that I'm talking specificly about MGS4, you probably want to take your comment back about control I imagine? ...yah, thought so xD

In regards to the "convoluted story", I don't quite see what your getting at - sure, it CAN be overly-complex, especially when some cutscenes last over an hour, but it isnt like the information is thrown at your for no reason; it all comes together at some point or another. And that's comming from someone who hadn't played a MGS prior to playing MGS4 (I'll admit I was lost at certain times, and not just the times when refrences were used). But in general, the story is (almost) perfectly narrated, and while perhaps contrived & cheesy at times (Meryl & Johnny at the end on the ship...*shivers*), I wouldn't go as far as to say it was convoluted.

I, personally, can't compare MGS and FF - I've only played the former (My first comment was purposfully naive, hence the ':P'. Just saying, some people on the internet sturggle to see these kinda things).

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evilmunkie
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 4:58:39 AM
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Damn, it feels like I got the game staring at me from the shelf now. It really is a great experience for anyone that invests some time with it. I mustve beaten it 3 times with each play through being 100+ hours because I wanted to try 100% it even though Emerald always was my brick wall. I thought VIII was also a great Final Fantasy even though I liked just about everything about VII more. After IX though I've always wanted to play another new Final Fantasy that had a black mage in the party. The only thing I never really got the hang of was the card games, more so on 9 than 8. Thinking about all of this again makes me want to see a 7 remake. I know there was alot of negative things being said when we read the news that SE would redo it with changes. Ben, you should make a list of what we that have played these games would consider as acceptable changes and send it to SE.

I would ok- armor actually changing a character's appearance. Summons having more than one animation or better yet more than one attack which have to be unlocked. Maybe one more limit break per character before they learn the original extreme limit breaks. Make the Gold Saucer even bigger keeping the original game room and adding a new one on the side. The arm wrestling, basket ball, 3-D fighting, and that crane games in the Gold Saucer should be given more depth so I'd want to play something else besides the bike, snowboarding and submarine games. More Gold Saucer prizes. Better visuals for the Fort Condor segments. Wouldn't mind a new island with new monsters.

Keep- Original music(atleast give a choice to use original music if new music is recorded), ATB system, amazing story, mood, everything else.

Call my comment blasphemous if you will but thats all I can come up with. That is more than amazing when you take into account that I am talking about a 1997 title.

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evilmunkie
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 5:03:45 AM
Reply

Nolan North as the voice of Cloud, one more thing

Last edited by evilmunkie on 12/17/2011 5:04:08 AM

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Douchebaguette
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 5:46:17 AM
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I actually preferred the still camera angle / one eyecatching backdrop and the ability to move our character anywhere within the page as opposed to the new "follow the player with your right analog to view the scenery" for J-RPGs (maybe the world map could do with a R analog stick for viewing and panning); if I developed a game nowadays, I'd give the player a choice. If possible, I'd give a choice for turn based or action based, too.


The town part you mentioned got me realising why FFVII has the upper hand over the other FFs. Because of the mixture of Dystopian, cyber-punk and post-industrial settings, this allowed the more currently familiar cultures around our own world to be implemented within the FFVII towns. Therefore each town could have a totally different theme without you scratching your head. This allowed the pacing of travel to be a ton more interesting (along with the music and the whole Sephiroth goose chase and what-not).


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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:11:33 AM

Completely agree about the camera angles, I don't think it is necessary to control the camera in an RPG like FF, FFX was in 3D and there were no problems at all with the camera... ever. Also I know time has gone on, but I cant help but miss pre-rendered backgrounds.

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Douchebaguette
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 6:04:16 PM

Same. If only there could be a developer for PSN games willing to make an epically large and detailed title yet with such beautiful graphical & audial simplicities, they'd shock the world.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 6:59:48 AM
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I agree.

But games like this still occasionally get made. Ni No Kuni (yes, again) is EXACTLY the same formula complete with a plot on the same level. A few games on other systems attempt such formulas too, albeit with slight alterations such as Lost Odyssey, Dragon Quest lX or to an extent, The Last Story.

I don't know why some here overlook what's right in front of you....again, looking at the brightest example - Ni No Kuni, is it because it isn't "grown up" enough for you? A misjudgement as i can vouch for how dark and intelligent the story gets. Not that being a more childlike game would be bad at all, if anything it would add more charm. Plus....this game is goddamn Ghibli. Is it the non-turned based system? It ain't too far off that and is, according to others, one of the best active turned based systems they've seen. Is it the Imajjins? Just a summon on a smaller scale, really.

I miss the early FF days just as much as the next fan and become emotional thinking back and enjoy being nostalgic every once in awhile too, but i also take full attention to anything that attempts that formula again but with an up-to-date engine and celebrate it because quite frankly, Ni No Kuni looks, to me, as the biggest competitor FFVll has ever seen and the perfect example of a modern golden age game. A NEW all time classic FRANCHISE (you read that right ;) ) has been born. So saying they're no more is simply not true.

Support them and they'll get made again. Some developers are risking an awful lot putting modern golden age games out for you in an age where you get criticised for not spending 100 million on your game or for not making it gritty and realistic enough.

However, in essence, i understand the empathy. Games like this are still rare...in ALL genres and it is a crime. One of many reasons this generation has been mixed for me.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 12/17/2011 7:09:26 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:06:45 AM

Ni no Kuni's real-time mechanic completely changes things for me. And yes, I'm sorry, as beautiful as it is, the presentation makes it look like its for kids.

I don't have a problem with it personally, but FFVII, despite what people may say today with all the super-mature gritty games out there, was designed as an RPG for hardcore fans, regardless of age. And there was a seriously dark theme as well.

I haven't played Ni no Kuni so I can't say for certain, but I have a feeling that, much like the Atelier franchise, it's just going to FEEL like something for kids (or girls). Again, it's not a negative implication as to the quality of the game. But it DOES have an impact, and it could potentially impact my enjoyment, being 33 years old.

You mention emotion. I will still get emotional at the events in FFVII. ...I find it hard to believe I'll get too emotional at anything in Ni no Kuni, because it appears they shy away from anything too grown-up in the way of sensation and emotion. It just doesn't take itself seriously enough.

I'm only going by what I've seen and heard, that's all. We have to admit that visual presentation, theme, and style have a huge impact on how we perceive our adventure.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/17/2011 10:07:34 AM

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 11:34:02 AM

The presentation has no effect on how deep the emotion will be from the game. That is only ones preference that i personally can't understand.

As i said, Ghibli make very childlike films and do they shy away from raw emotion? They're some of the most character driven, moving pictures of all time. What's more, they're involved with Ni No Kuni. Now, i'm not saying you have to find it emotionally impactful, we all have tastes, but that doesn't mean the game is going to be perceived in such a way elsewhere. If one doesn't find a Ghibli film moving due to it's childlike nature, that's just you, but i'd tell you that you're limiting yourself.
Atelier is not a good comparison because that is a game that's very tongue in cheek and is not on a scale as large as Ni No Kuni. Ni No Kuni is a grand scale RPG using that old FF formula and modernising it. Also, it DOES take itself seriously and as i said, it can be fairly dark just as much other Ghibli work can be too. The notion of having to be a "grown up" concept to be emotionally engaging is, to me, a flawed logic.
Me personally, i prefer any kind of presentation. Anything that makes me feel, i will remember forever.
However, with Ni No Kuni playing into a childlike mentality, it captures my imagination like no other. The game is sweeping with heart warming imagination that taps into the purity of being young and innocent and my own personal nostalgia of my childhood.

There are many cut scenes available online which depict raw character development and heart warming sentimentality. Stuff that's completely missing today in almost ALL games.
Even the character concepts can warm the heart such as Oliver's neighbour Maru - a youg girl who, in reality, is bed-ridden with a deadly illness, but in the land of Ni No Kuni, she is a very acrobatic warrior. A beautiful cutscene is available online which includes a moving moment between her, Oliver and her father.
Viewing it, i rendered feelings not felt in an RPG since an early FF.

During the golden age, there were many kinds of this classic RPG and not all were liked equally by everyone. Writing Ni No Kuni off because you fear certain mechanics does not mean it isn't still that kind of game. A Tales Of game could be hailed like an FF game back then, but i dislike the battle system in Tales and didn't really get into it, but i know full well that that game is one for the RPG history books.

There's a reason many are up in arms about this game and it's because it's what many RPG players have wanted to see happen since the generation began.
Ni No Kuni is designed for the hardcore gamer, but can also please a much larger demographic. It is the 1st modern golden age JRPG on our system. It's Level 5 taking the torch from Squaresoft and continuing on and thus hammers home my original point, these kinds of games aren't gone.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:45:46 PM

I think you're being blinded again by something you prefer and ardently defend, but that's okay.

Setting and theme absolutely have an impact and always will.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 7:02:52 PM

lol errm... you sound defeated. Didn't even argue against any of my points, but instead, chose to assume and get defensive as usual, "but that's ok".

I never said Setting and theme don't have anyhting to do with engagement.... i said the opposite and that if done correctly, any theme can engage you. You're saying that if it's a certain theme...it can't...OK, mate.

To quote you...try reading before discussing. ;)

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Shepherd Book
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 8:36:03 AM
Reply

LotusFlow3r, that was well said. I don't know if Ni No Kuni has be released in the states but it sounds like something that I might like.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 11:39:07 AM

Thanks. Ni No Kuni is pencilled in as early 2012.

I expect Ni No Kuni to get the usual JRPG treatment from the press in the west (although i hope to be surprised) and make the game become an under looked classic like say, Lost Odyssey because the times are different, but let the hardcore tell it for you. There's going to be many hardcore RPG players raving about it come the time.

I'll be writing a review for it, but not until it's complete and settled.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 12/17/2011 11:39:40 AM

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Geobaldi
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 8:55:23 AM
Reply

I still prefer FFVI but that's just me I guess.

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JohnnyGold
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 9:13:22 AM
Reply

Ben, I'm really not trying to sound like an ass... but get over it. Every week on here there's an article in the "news" section talking about how much you love final fantasy 7, and how there will never be another final fantasy 7.

to quote jay-z, from "on to the next one:"

"...want my old sh*t? Buy my old albums."

the game is a decade and a half old at this point. i agree that it was great, and it clearly resonates with you on a very personal level, and thats cool. you should play it every few years and let it take you back to that place in your life where you first played it.

for me, that game happens to be star tropics on the original nintendo. a game like that will never be duplicated again. not because it couldn't... it's simple 8 bit technology... but because, well, why bother? the medium, and life, moves on. i can play star tropics whenever i want, i don't need it remade, remastered or rebooted.

maybe someday ff7 will be remade. or maybe it won't. but it's not like you can't play it RIGHT NOW if you want to. it also doesn't mean that games that are out today aren't fun. and somewhere out there, there's a kid RIGHT NOW playing a game like arkham city, or uncharted 3, or even black ops, who in 15 years is going to be looking back fondly wondering why they don't makes games like that anymore.

but really man - it's time to move on. as a journalist, honest to god bro, it's time to move on.

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maxpontiac
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 9:54:28 AM

Don't know if that was intentional or not, but that "Right Now" reference was very Van Halen.

Awesome.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:11:14 AM

JohnnyGold, shut it. I am SO sick of people making accusations that have no foundation whatsoever.

Cut the sh** with your "get over it" crap. I HAVE NEVER WRITTEN ABOUT FFVII ITSELF. NEVER. Not in thousands upon thousands of articles in four years.

There were articles about an FFVII remake, but there has been a grand total of TWO in 2011, and that has NOTHING to do with the game itself. Not ONCE have I written an article that is essentially a retro-review of FFVII.

I don't want anyone to ever post anything in a Final Fantasy thread again about it being something they've seen before, when IT'S NOT TRUE IN THE SLIGHTEST. STOP.

Honest to God, "bro," do some research for once.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/17/2011 10:26:05 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:17:50 AM

You shut up

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Excelsior1
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:28:05 AM

Nothing like MR.adminstrator telling people to shut it. Notice the guy got 5 thumbs up.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 12/17/2011 10:29:10 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:40:23 AM

When people are completely in the wrong and make baseless accusations, I'll tell them to shut up every single time.

It's also obvious that Johnny didn't even bother to read the article, as the comment makes it sound as if this article is about a FFVII remake, which was never mentioned once.

Maybe if people would learn to read before spouting crap in the comments, those people could be more accurate.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/17/2011 10:41:37 AM

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Yukian
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 11:15:33 AM

Is this a plot to destroy Ben's site and/or credibility? 'Cause it sucks...

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:35:02 PM

@Excelsior
Because votes are a way of discerning validity? Well, I prefer reason, personally.... but I'm strange all.... up and his grill, and all that, favoring facts. So he can go tell that word which is up to his mother and come up with some points that are worth a g-unit or two.

That's rah-eet dawg.

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:42:16 PM

@Excelsior

Notice also World's thumbs up... that is... if you want to continue to use your method of measurement.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:48:01 PM

It's like any time someone sees the title "Final Fantasy" in a headline, they think it's the exact same article. And I can't stand the insane exaggerations.

Never once have I addressed FFVII the game in a dedicated piece as if it were a retro review. Never. Four years. I don't mind civil-minded critique but when the critique makes no sense whatsoever, I get annoyed.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/17/2011 12:48:32 PM

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Yukian
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 1:54:04 PM

@Ben, I don't think they even READ the title of the articles, they go by the images you link them to. lol

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 2:40:20 PM

I don't pull any weight around here officially, but if someone needed to shut up it was that guy. What a tool. This site's methods or choices for editorial content aren't for wanna be critics to review.

If I judge a site to be biased or no good or mired in a bad pattern of thought I just don't go there any more.

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daus26
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:30:49 PM

Well, definitely incorrect accusations there. However, while there haven't exactly been specific articles alone about FFVII itself, there has been quiet a few articles where the game is referred to. Perhaps he might be thinking about that instead. What's pretty clear is that long time members here would probably know Ben's love for FFVII is very, very strong, and when's something's that clear and obvious, I guess accusations like this will eventually happen and imo, should be expected somewhat.

Also, I would be able to relate to this. If I were to post more often, it would become pretty evident to everyone how much I adore Gran Turismo, and I like to believe that I always bring it up whenever I see the chance. I think Ben is this way with FFVII.

Then again, there's nothing wrong with that. Imo, it gives the site a special vibe that it's run by a pure gamer and enthusiast, that strongly appreciates and also believes in what he likes.

Just my say.

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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 9:19:02 AM
Reply

I never felt being stuck in Midgar as a chore, I still find it to be one of the most expansive citys in a game. This game does not need a remake as I agree with the article, the game just has so much to offer. The stories pacing is superb I never once felt bored playing Final Fantasy VII, I only recently played VIII and I was hooked,even after 10+ years.

I personaly thought FFXIII solved the problem XII had with its pacing, the story was frequently updated and the characters brought charsima back. As I said before I hope this time XIII-2 doesn't hide everything within a data-log and give us a REAL antagonist. That's something which has been lacking ever since FFX.

Last edited by Vivi_Gamer on 12/17/2011 9:19:39 AM

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JohnnyGold
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 10:57:19 AM
Reply

Ben,

Im not "spouting crap" in the comments, I come to this site first and foremost for my playstation news, and very rarely comment. I just can't help but notice that you flood the "news" page with op-ed lamentations of final fantasy 7.

Maybe you've "NEVER WRITTEN ABOUT FINAL FANTASY 7 EVER," but one doesn't have to go back very far... say.. yesterday, to see you lead an article with a line like this:
"I'm playing Final Fantasy VII again. ...just wait, that's relevant to this article, I swear."

Even you yourself can admit this journalistic obsession you've developed. I just think it's time to move on.

Check out this article on skyrim, published on grantland.com of all places:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7290527/one-night-skyrim-makes-strong-man-crumble
a deep op-ed piece about how the story telling mechanisms of skyrim need to be overhauled to tell a more engaging story, and how going forward, bethesda should be influenced more by demon souls instead of tolkien. In other words: a relevant article about where video games stand TODAY - not a weekly love letter to 15 year old game.

i'm not trying to rip you, flame you, or anything else. I'm just saying you're gifted with 2 things: an ability to write well, and connections in the world of video games (specifically, SONY.)

tackle issues like why me and my wife can't have 2 psn IDs signed on at the same time to both be earning trophies when playing rockband, instead of how square enix wont remake a 15 year old game. write for the good of the people not for the good of yourself!

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:35:45 PM

-comment pending moderator approval-

I'm guessing it's a link to some past Ben's articles... and it'll likely prove Ben's point. Should be good.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:53:01 PM

You're not even going to acknowledge that you're entirely off base? Fine. Let me use the database to try and help you out.

About 2200 articles in 2011. No more than 10 that have Final Fantasy VII in the headline, and that INCLUDES any pieces about a FFVII remake. And zero that address FFVII as a game itself, or ANY Final Fantasy.

Get a calculator. Do the ratio. Then see if what you're saying is making any sense whatsoever.

There's a psychological phenomenon you should be aware of. It's when you're looking for something specific to prove a point, you categorically - and subconsciously - ignore anything else. So any time you see a Final Fantasy headline, you completely forget that it has been about three MONTHS since there has been one, and they all run together in your head.

You forget there were several HUNDRED other headlines in between. Can you understand that? Oh, and you obviously didn't even read the article, as you clearly thought I was talking about a remake. And that only further proves my point about knee-jerk and baseless reactions to "all these" FF headlines.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/17/2011 12:55:50 PM

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daus26
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:48:06 PM

I don't think Johnny is just talking about the headlines. If that was the case, his argument would be mute because his point here is from an article that has the headline about forced social gaming. Technically, that's an article that doesn't talk about FF, or does the tile have FF on it. Basically, I don't think he's specifically talking about you writing articles with FFVII on the title headline, or articles itself that's about FFVII. I think it's just all the small references from all the different articles that eventually adds up.

Again, I don't see anything wrong with this. If I have to say one thing, it's just an opinion of one individual and that really shouldn't get you too involved with this argument. Just keep on doing what you doing.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 4:48:50 PM

He's wrong there, too. FFVII is almost never mentioned anywhere, ever. Especially not in news pieces. I'll go through literally thousands of news articles and never see it.

I'm sorry, it's just an incorrect over-exaggeration and always has been. If it were anything else, I'd freely admit it.

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Beamboom
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 4:52:41 AM

Oh come on, cut the guy some slack.
If you search for "FFVII" on this site and filter out the forum posts you get no less than 13 500 hits. For the first few pages of hits it's even found in the title of the articles.


Last edited by Beamboom on 12/18/2011 2:16:20 PM

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Underdog15
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 @ 4:00:17 PM

Beam, you have to filter out the comments. People like me and Ellejuss bring it up all the time. This article alone probably has a few hundred of your FFVII hits.

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Beamboom
Wednesday, December 21, 2011 @ 3:19:41 AM

That is incorrect, Under. Type this search string: "ffvii site:psxextreme com" with a dot before com, and see for yourself. This is Google we talk about here. They rate user comments extremely low.
You'll see the context of the words in the search result so it's quick and easy to browse.


Last edited by Beamboom on 12/21/2011 3:21:46 AM

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 12:40:55 PM
Reply

As if people are bemoaning an opinion piece which admires a timeless classic. It's not a SE hate article, it's not even validating the "twitch" gamer argument... in fact, it shuts that down in the process.

This is a pure love affair with a timeless classic. The man should be applauded for his appreciation of our favorite hobby. Not only now (as he said, "all that great technology (which I absolutely do appreciate)"), but the appreciation for our gaming history. FFVII was a work of art that helped propel gaming in one giant step forward.

Who wouldn't appreciate that?


Oh... wait... I know who...

People who didn't read the article.

FYI, folks, there are over 25 unique Final Fantasy titles ever made... Just because it says "final fantasy" in the title, doesn't mean it's the same thing.


I half expected some of you to complain about MORE FF news in the FFXIV pieces or the FFX remake pieces.

Oh wait.... some people did.

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Vivi_Gamer
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 1:41:29 PM

I honestly do not know how people could complain at a re-release of Final Fantasy X.. but as you said, they manage...

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Excelsior1
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 2:03:05 PM
Reply

The official gadfly of FF and all things square.

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eLLeJuss
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:53:53 PM
Reply

ff7 remake will come. i know it

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Rogueagent01
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 7:38:25 PM
Reply

FFVII is pretty much the game that got me into RPGs. I had played several of them before that but none of them made me hunt for other RPGs or made me truly appreciate the genre including The Legend of Zelda. As soon as I finished FFVII I hunted down and bought several of what became my favorite RPGs such as; Star Ocean: The Second Story, Wild Arms 2, Persona 1 and 2, FFVIII, Legend of Dragoon, Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen. Of course not immediately as a couple of those had yet to be released but I looked for them because of my experience with FFVII.

Though I prefer FFVIII to VII I would have never played VIII had I not played VII. I appreciate what that game did for me and still like playing it from time to time.

The only gripe I ever had with the game was the way you saved. I believe many of the newer games got this right, allowing you to save whenever you want too. Or at the very least making sure a save point is never more than a few minutes away. The developers back then forgot that gamers also had responsibilties and lives in general and it showed with that save system.

Last edited by Rogueagent01 on 12/17/2011 7:42:43 PM

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Gordo
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 7:43:20 PM
Reply

I got FFVII for the PSP last year after everyone on this site raved about it.

Couldn't get into it unfortunately. After getting attacked by random enemies shaped like houses and the eternity between save points I realised that my attention span and expectations have changed since 1997.

I can understand the nostalgia (a bit like your memories of your first real girlfriend) but it's a bit bewildering to us "non-devotees".

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Underdog15
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 12:47:08 AM

The saves issue you have makes a lot of sense to me. Auto-saving was pretty much impossible back then, though. We did, afterall, have memory cards... lol

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JohnnyGold
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 8:31:01 PM
Reply

are you kidding me?

do you honestly delete the posts that contradict your talking points, and those that agree with it, to frame your posts in such a manner as to be irrefutable?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 8:34:32 PM

I deleted it because the of the extra long links you put in; I couldn't even see them in the Approval Bin.

And you honestly don't get the point, anyway. Trying to say FFVII should never be talked about because it's 15 years old and flat-out refusing to deny obvious mathematical facts isn't helping your cause. Even when everyone else is saying you threw false accusations at me, you still don't get it. So just drop it.

In the future, here's a thought- don't like the article? Don't post. Not a tough concept to grasp. Everyone here seemed to enjoy themselves with the discussion until YOU showed up.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/17/2011 8:36:27 PM

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Underdog15
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 9:46:46 PM

"Everyone here seemed to enjoy themselves with the discussion until YOU showed up."

Actually, that part's true. Even Excelsior didn't come in with his misguided smokescreening until he posted.

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JohnnyGold
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 8:52:31 AM

Ben,

"flat-out refusal to deny obvious mathematical facts" is a BIT of an exaggeration on your part, and, as i said, splitting hairs. in the past week, there has been this article (1) an article about forced socialized gaming with a picture of final fantasy 7 as a thumbnail (2) a story about someone creating ff7 with the unreal engine (3) and no ps1 remasters coming to the ps3, which means no remastered ff7 (4.)
thats FOUR references in a week to a 15 year old game! in the NEWS section of a site about a console thats 2 generations past that!

thats NEWS??

how far do i have to go back to "prove" that you talk about final fantasy 7 too much for a "news" site? you are very clearly defensive about this matter. my simple point is, its not "NEWS." the game is not NEW - its 15 years old. i can 100% appreciate your love for the title - i love it as well, and have beaten it many many times. but it's not, and i can't emphasize this enough, NEWS.

in my personal opinion, it's getting to the point of doing yourself, and this site, a disservice. there are so many great games out right now, and so many issues to talk about regarding video games. give us 5000 words on "gamification." move the discussion forward, talk about something new.

and deleting posts that disagree with you is sycophantic behavior and highly, HIGHLY alarming for someone who wants gamers to be viewed as a "mature" bunch.

whats more mature: open discourse, or surrounding yourself with fanboys who tell you its ok to write weekly love letters to games that are more than likely older than they are?

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Lotusflow3r
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 9:40:13 AM

Ben aka administrator...you sound incredibly hostile and completely off the mark, regardless of whether a member is wrong or whatever.

This happens every other day with you, someone doesn't agree with you or points out an error and you become arrogant (or rather, an apparent insecure), never admit you're wrong, insult and thus becoming hypocritical by breaking your own rules.

Do you know that people quote your over the top comments on other gaming sites now and then (one owner of a site is even here, Chris F) and make you a laughing stock via nothing but quoting you? It all began on that Killzone 2 day that nearly destroyed this site.

LET'S RELAX. NO ONE IS HERE TO HARM YOU. It's called a community, they help you with opinions and observations, wrong or right.

You can't even have a normal discussion with me without calling me blinded when i provided a deep post challenging you....instead of learning something new or actually constructively telling me how i might be off the mark on something (and considering my post was about having a positive outlook to future games...you'd think a reader would appreciate that too...), you get defensive and insult. You claim you enjoy in-depth comments.....yeah, not when they disagree with you and you can't win.

I am here because i enjoy some of the community and it's simple. Why ruin it?

You'd probably find something wrong with this comment too.

P.S. I was enjoying my discussion until you called me blinded. Maybe check yourself first?

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 12/18/2011 9:46:09 AM

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VampDeLeon
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 11:19:02 PM

I feel like this 'opinion piece' should be in PS1 Reviews.. FFVII is still entertaining today yes... but so is majority other older titles. As a frequent browser it is off putting to see over appreciation of classic titles outside the Remake game articles in a current gen News section.

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VampDeLeon
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 11:19:22 PM

I feel like this 'opinion piece' should be in PS1 Reviews.. FFVII is still entertaining today yes... but so is majority other older titles. As a frequent browser it is off putting to see over appreciation of classic titles outside the Remake game articles in a current gen News section.

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Underdog15
Tuesday, December 20, 2011 @ 4:02:00 PM

lol @ Johnny

All four of those articles don't make Ben's poitns less potent.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/20/2011 4:02:35 PM

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Warrior Poet
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 12:48:44 PM
Reply

There are games I like better - Super Metroid and Valkyrie Profile are examples - but FFVII is in many ways the example of a game we can look at and say "This is what a game should be." It didn't do much new other than FMV, but it was the execution that mattered. The story was interesting and sometimes emotional, and the gameplay was solid - and the music. The music, man. It's awesome.

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Gravelight
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 3:26:57 PM
Reply

Resident Evil & Final Fantasy VII are the two games that turned me into the gamer I am today. Although I loved the oldest consoles in my spare time, (nes, snes,sega, atari, gba, etc.) I never got hardcore until the release of Sony PlayStation. That system kept me indoors when I would usually not be. And with titles like I mentioned above in a 3D environment, emersion was total domination. But I do miss games like FFVII, haven't played one like that since before last gen's consoles were released. It's something that definitly needs to make a comeback.

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Liquidus319
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 3:37:52 PM
Reply

Okay, so, from what I have read, everything on here seems to be purely oppinionated. Well, if one thing throughout the history of man rings true, its that oppinions can and should be argued.

Now, as ffvii has come and gone it seems right that it should be left as a memory. I love the 60's but there is NO CHANCE i can experience them years. However, with the rise of Ni No Kuni we are being given THE CHANCE. Sure, it appears much more cute and maybe that is something that isn't for a 33 year old man. BUT, the chance to experience something you miss is going to manifest itself in a title called Ni No Kuni. It seems hard for me to understand how someone could be so blind as to not see potential here.

PERSONALLY, I think we should look at the potentials on the horizon, not at the games that have gone.

You're an administrator, adore the notion of a discussion.

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Rogueagent01
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 5:42:51 PM

@Liquidus
A history teacher would probably flunk you for a comment like that. Ignoring the past is a mistake in any field. Not that it should be dwelled on, but you are supposed to learn from it. And though you cannont physically go back to the 60s there are tons of festivals out there that relive that decade every year. And you shouldn't argue about opinions we should discuss them, there is a huge difference between the two.

I agree that we should look more to the future of gaming but acknoweledging the past is important as well. What I take from your comment as well is that you never play a game a second time. Now I hope that is not true but that is how it comes off to me.

@Ben
I just think you should try to avoid commenting on certain posts that you know are going to get you heated. Just don't let the people bait you, even if they are wrong many of the members here will take care of it for you without you having to even get involved. I love that you come in here and post after you write the article many journalists would never even consider doing that. I know that you want to reply to those certain comments and I am guilty of it myself, but I "try" to avoid commenting on posts that are just gonna lead to an arguement. I enjoy debating and love having conversations, but I hate argueing especially on something that is subjective(though I know for sure I am guilty of it).

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Liquidus319
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 6:18:51 PM

First off, a discussion is a contest of opinions. Thus, an arguement.

Second, you are right, we should learn from our past. But, not once in my comment did I say that we shouldn't, I simply meant the past cannot be the present. But, that we had the chance to experience something similar.

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Lotusflow3r
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 6:43:25 PM

Wasn't too hard to understand Liquidus's argument, really, was it Rogueagent01?

I agree Liquidus. I am all for nostalgia, but writing future games off and calling this formula dead is a disservice to the developers who're risking it all for US....and for that, i can let things be a celebrated memory and also celebrate these extremely promising new games.

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Beamboom
Monday, December 19, 2011 @ 5:37:35 AM

That was a very wise advice you left for Ben there, Rogueagent. That's how I too believe these discussions would best be handled.

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maxpontiac
Sunday, December 18, 2011 @ 6:49:47 PM
Reply

Wow.

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