: Is Sony Catering To Casual Gamers With PS4?

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Is Sony Catering To Casual Gamers With PS4?

If there's one thing that has always been true about the PlayStation brand, it's this- It's not meant for the casual gamer. Casuals are welcome, of course, but PlayStation has always been a haven for the hardcore.

Xbox is the casual gamer's platform of choice. We all know this. And as the vast majority of gamers these days can be identified as "casual," maybe it's no surprise that Sony wants a piece of that ever-growing pie.

I like what I've heard concerning the PS4. I completely understand Sony's approach. Furthermore, I have no doubt that we'll get plenty of games that are specifically designed for the hardcore gamers out there. However, given the fact that the new console emphasizes accessibility and social medial elements, one has to wonder if Sony is making a definite transition. Then we have to wonder if we'll see any of those niche titles PlayStation has been so well known for over the years; i.e., JRPGs, for instance, which are pretty much dying, anyway.

On top of which, we have to consider the following- Maybe the market can no longer support a device that purely targets the hardcore. Maybe the only way to survive these days is to appease the masses, which game makers never had to do before. Maybe Sony's new direction wasn't about choice...maybe it was a necessity. I suppose we could be optimistic and say the PS4 will satisfy both the hardcore and casual crowds equally, but I have a feeling that may not be the case...

2/22/2013 Ben Dutka

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Comments (116 posts)

Highlander
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 10:43:10 PM
Reply

Ben, re-read your editorial, I think you have the emphasis wrong in this sentence; "Maybe the only way to survive these days is to appease the masses"

I don't think there's any maybe here, and I don't think this system will appeal to the older generations of hardcore gamers.

Sony, well SCEA, certainly has behaved in a way that supports this statement "Then we have to wonder if we'll see any of those niche titles PlayStation has been so well known for over the years; i.e., JRPGs, for instance, which are pretty much dying, anyway."

I don't know that the genre is dying in it's homeland. As NISA has proven today, the JRPG continues to exist in the land of the rising sun. It's just that outside that home nation, there seems precious little in the way of support for it. As I said in a comment to another article this week, perhaps it's time to give the WiiU a look? Or perhaps the Vita will take over for the PSP and become the JRPG's new home?

What I do know and feel is that this PS4 is designed for western gamers and western developers with the heavy emphasis on social BS and a system architecture that caters heavily to Western developers. It seems that Sony has decided to look west and ignore what made it great.

I don't know what the future holds exactly, but without a huge drop of titles in genre that I am attracted by, there is zero reason for me to buy a PS4 at launch or even a year from launch.

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Cesar_ser_4
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 10:55:41 PM

Come on Highlander, lighten up. All this rage against SCEWW is not going to do you any good and it certainly isn't going to change the PS4's architecture. One can only hope since this gen isn't going to last as long as last gen did, Sony will go back to the drawing board. Like I said before. As of right now, Sony isn't in the business of investing millions of dollars on new "groundbreaking" technology. What they want to do now is just catch up. Rake in as much cash as they can.

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Highlander
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 11:23:49 PM

I don't expect it to change a thing. Are you saying that if something is a forgone conclusion that means no one should criticize it? That's pretty much what you're telling me. If I follow your advice I go silent and my silence conveys what exactly? Tacit approval?

Why should I not criticize what I think needs to be criticized? I've said before that I will always support Sony, and I likely will, however that support is not blind. When I feel they deserve a critical word I let rip, as should everyone.

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Cesar_ser_4
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 11:41:35 PM

There is a difference between criticizing it and this thing you're doing. Highlander, you're being a bit too harsh on them. Nowhere did I tell you to shut up (which is the way you seem to take it), and you're certainly entitled to your own opinion. But come on man. You're taking it too far.

Last edited by Cesar_ser_4 on 2/22/2013 11:41:52 PM

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Knightzane
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 11:52:45 PM

Man i remember when you were a happy guy. At least from what i could tell by comments. Now you seem all well... Angry. If you don't like the ps4 don't buy it. I get where your coming from but Sony has to appease the NA's just as much as their homeland. Face it. People here love Facebook games. What better way to make the 17 million users of facebook come over to a console?

Its a smart tactic. I remain confident that just because they are trying something new that their not going insane either. Maybe you should try and open your mind a little bit, just a bit and think how things could get 'better' Because theres good in bad. You just have to find it. No offense Highlander. But i miss your older comments. Not this teenage angst-ish comments.

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Highlander
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:45:10 AM

knightzane, You'll find one day that expressing how you feel is not teenage angst, it's "life's too short so why sit on my hands?"

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:02:58 AM

Eh, let him alone, he's our tech guy so we shouldn't ask him to only be positive in the tech realm.

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Hynad
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:41:34 AM

How is the architecture catering more to the western developers than the Japanese ones?

This argument is really puzzling me.

And Highlander, "life's too short so why sit on my hands?"...

Complaining and expressing yourself is hardly something indicating you're not sitting on your hands. Talk is cheap. Acting is what you mean. But most people who complain don't act.

As for Ben's article, I think he's jumping to a strange and obviously hasty conclusion. The reveal showcased almost exclusively hardcore material.

Yeah, they improved the social aspects and made sure the console would be a simple one to use. How is that making it more casual? Being better connected with your hardcore gaming friends makes it casual? -__-

Sony also specifically said that they worked hard to make sure that the time between the moment you turn the system on and the moment you play is diminished as much as possible. Making sure you do the hardcore gaming you crave for as quickly and hassle free as possible.

So how is improving the interface and streamlining the UI an indication that it's to cater to the casual market?

Must things be overly archaic to be hardcore? That's ridiculous.
Ease of use isn't what makes a console casual. It's the content that it has. And the content that was revealed doesn't indicate anything casual. Deep Down, Drive Club, Killzone 4, Diablo III, The Witness (if you've played Braid, you know that John Blow isn't about casuals), Bungie's Destiny (Bungie don't make casual games), Ubi's Watch Dogs, inFamous: Second Son...

I don't see anything casual there. Not even a glimpse.

Last edited by Hynad on 2/23/2013 7:54:06 AM

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SmokeyPSD
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:00:56 AM

The Witcher 3 has also been confirmed by CD Projekt for the PS4... I don't buy the idea to just palm off the system as catering to "casuals" either.

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TheAgingHipster
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:01:30 AM

Gotta agree with Hynad here. I don't see the PS4 as being any kind of "casual" gaming machine. It has a new streamlined interface, and gives gamers the option of working with social media components, but it's no more a casual machine than the PS3 was. Hell, you don't drop 8 gigs of DDR5 memory, a high performance dedicated GPU, and a custom AMD processor into a casual machine--the specs alone put it up there with some of the better PC gaming rigs I've built.

In short, new UIs and media outlets do not a casual system make. The thing has "mass appeal" written all over it.

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xenris
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:36:57 AM

Well it doesn't help you any that you decided to avoid the best JRPG to come out this generation ;)

As for him being the Tech expert, I personally put my faith in Temjin in that realm. I've had many great conversations about tech with him and he explains everything well enough without taking an elitist stance due to his knowledge.

On the complete other end of the spectrum Highlander can moan and whine all he wants. I did it with ME3 and I will still do it if anyone challenges why I feel that way towards that series, so on some level I can relate. Heck the whining actually got something accomplished there...however I was not one of the people who went overboard saying they were going to kill casey hudson or anything like that.

I just still don't understand what exactly he is upset about with the console. Yes it has some of the parts that a mid range PC would have in them, BUT it is a console, and dedicated to gaming. I know mid range laptops would not be able to get games running looking like KZ:Shadowfall does, because aside from my gaming PC I have a mid range laptop and it can't produce those quality graphics.

Plus it has a ton of dedicated super fast memory, something PCs from my understanding aren't really harnessing yet, plus a low resource operating system.

Here is an actual question for highlander. What would YOU have made the PS4 into? What parts would you have used, and what price range would you charge people? I want to know what you think you could have done better. When I complain I almost always have a part where I express what I would have done differently, which I did numerous times with ME2 and ME3.

Last edited by xenris on 2/23/2013 9:38:44 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:37:17 AM

Uh...if "the thing has mass appeal written all over it," that would be the epitome of a casual gamer's machine in my eyes.

And who said anything about Western and Japanese, Hynad? Why do you think all Western gamers are casual and all Japanese are hardcore?

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Hynad
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:43:34 AM

Hum... Ben? Did you read the actual discussion here? O_o

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:45:42 AM

Hynad: Yes, I see. Highlander tends to focus on that.

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Simcoe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 10:02:15 AM

Sure Highlander's stance won't help the PS4 but perhaps it will for PS5, because you know that once PS4 launches the Sony people will start thinking about PS5. Especially if the PS4 ends up being a shorter hardware cycle.

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TheAgingHipster
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:34:56 PM

@Ben, perhaps you misunderstand me. Having "mass appeal" does not mean "limited to casual market". The PS4 is clearly designed to be a machine for everyone, whether you're a hardcore gamer who's all about the $60 experience, or an occasional pick-up-and-play type who's more interested in the multimedia and social aspects of the unit. It's a console designed with both us AND our mothers in mind.

So, in this context, "mass appeal" does not mean "casual"--it means being so robust as to be desirable to a broader audience while retaining its core gamer roots.

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Gordo
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 4:17:56 PM

Highlander. Thanks for sticking to your guns!

I come here for educated and informed debate and this wouldn't happen if every one had the same opinion.

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Highlander
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 6:39:35 PM

I focus on that Ben, because the majority of western developers make *nothing* that interests me.

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Akuma07
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 8:02:05 PM

Honeslty, don't expect the PS5 to be different in terms of scale from the PS4.

Sony gambled with the cell processor and bluray, they packed a lot into the original 60gb PS3, and they were LOSING money on every console they sold for a long time. They had to do it, to make sure they had an edge on the Xbox 360. It paid off in the long run, but I doubt Sony want to spend the next 3 years doing the same thing.

I have said it SO many times, a lot of people have, even Ben, but people need to stop and listen to what the developers are saying.

@Highlander, We get your point, the PS4 is a piece of crap low-end rubbish PC with the Sony label and aimed at Western devs. The funny part of your arguement, is that you have never once said anything about the developers! Every developer who has spoken about the PS4, has spoken about how awesome it is and how it is a huge improvement on the PS3. Also, like Xenris said, what would YOU have put in it? and how much would you charge people for it?

To the people who are worried about the PS4 not being much of a graphical improvement to the PS3, let me just say one final time, the developers who were responsible for the most graphically incredible games in the current generation have all expressed their total excitement and happiness towards the PS4. Isn't that enough? I mean, the co-founder of Guerilla games went on national TV and said that the PS4 was an incredible machine and was a huge improvement on the PS3, he even called it a "supercharged" machine.

Last edited by Akuma07 on 2/24/2013 8:06:26 PM

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frostface
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 10:47:34 PM
Reply

The PS4 is made for the 'hardcore' crowd but with some bells and whistles that might attract the casual crowd too. During the current gen we've seen our consoles turning into multi-media boxes rather than straight up dedicated 'games' consoles. The vibe I got about the PS4 the other night was that it was all about the games. Nothing casual about what we seen in that department and although there was a lot of talk about social networks, I think we're all kinda evolved to that now in our every day lives away from gaming, so it's a natural evolution that it would be integrated into the next gen. That's not catering to the casual crowd exclusively, that's catering to everyone since we're practically all connected any way.

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Axe99
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:46:39 AM

This - you don't put 8GB of GDDR5 into a casual gaming box, that'd be insane - but you do make sure the box will work for casuals and the hardcore. Plus, the young 'uns really dig the interconnected stuff - even the hardcore young 'uns.

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TheAgingHipster
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 8:53:59 AM

Precisely.

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SmokeyPSD
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:02:46 AM

You hit it right on Axe99...

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Hynad
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:39:01 AM

What more, making sure the console has these social aspects and ties to existing widespread social networks like facebook makes it so we, hardcore gamers, don't need to get away from our gaming as much as if they weren't included.

You can do it all from your console, and most of it can be done while you're still playing your games!!

Last edited by Hynad on 2/23/2013 9:40:55 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:44:14 AM

Every system is "all about games." When a new system comes out and the only new features on display have nothing to do with better GAMES but with the "user experience," then of course the console is automatically more casual.

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TheAgingHipster
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:36:29 PM

"When a new system comes out and the only new features on display have nothing to do with better GAMES but with the 'user experience,' then of course the console is automatically more casual."

It sounds like you're equating "more casual" with "less technical".

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Axe99
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 5:14:46 PM

@ Ben - 8GB of GDDR5 is a new feature, and it's all about high-performance for gaming. Video uploading is also a feature that's big with the hardcore competitive communities on relevant games. Sure, they made a big song and dance about the social features, but they also spent a good amount of time showing us games that looked plenty 'core' (KZ, Deep Down, Watch Dogs). If you look at how long, in minutes, the conference focussed on stuff, there was plenty of time either talking tech specs (a decidedly un-casual thing to do) or showing core games (again, non-casual).

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 11:07:56 PM
Reply

To survive and to be relevant you have to bring everyone in in a big tent philosophy, but it's not as if all Sony's developers and reliable multiplat devs are going to start making simple casual games all of the sudden. The new architecture won't stop any of the JRPGs or other Playstation goodies to stop flowing our way. The social stuff just makes sense, it's a way to proliferate media and ensure success. There's nothing to gain with an exclusionary mindset.

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:17:58 PM

Stop making so much sense, dammit. This is the internet, here!

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Fane1024
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 7:51:25 AM

This point, I think, undermines Ben's starting premise. PlayStation has *never* just catered to the hardcore audience. They're the systems that brought gaming to the mainstream.

Neither is the 360 the system for "casuals", unless you define "casuals" as people who play COD every day, which is frankly a misuse of the term. And that characterisation hardly reflects the totality of the 360-using population.

The Wii was the system for casual gaming, if any console was. In reality, only the iDevices are really built for "casuals".

Last edited by Fane1024 on 2/24/2013 7:56:42 AM

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Kiryu
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 11:22:10 PM
Reply

social meaning sharing video and have ur own profile page with a gaming network not casual games for casual gamers.
GAMES ARE ALL ABOUT HARDCORE!
Dont bring up articles like this pls i beg you

Last edited by Kiryu on 2/22/2013 11:22:41 PM

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homura
Friday, February 22, 2013 @ 11:52:02 PM
Reply

Sony 's PS4 is still console with power, it's the developers decision to make their games cater to casual or hardcore. Those "social" stuff is just an add-on to go with the flow in what people of today are into now, (Facebook, Youtube, Video sharing, etc.) and if the PS4 can do it, why not? It's just a little disappointing that Sony didn't go for pioneering new technology, which Sony is known for, this time. But if this'd safety move is there only chance to stop the bleeding, then it still good for me. And the fact that those games previewed is fantastic nonetheless, so it still looks like it's going to be an amazing PS4 Generation.

As for the JRPG's, it's not dying. Three NIS games are announced. And the games like Tales Of Xillia, New Atelier. And I think Project X-Zone is coming to PS3. Bravely Default and Fire Emblem if you include 3DS. Tri-Ace, Level-5 and of course Square-Enix (FFXIII is still an amazing JRPG, and that's a fact, what? because it doesn't compares to other FF, suddenly it's not JRPG anymore).

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Draguss
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:08:30 AM
Reply

Seems more like they're adding a couple of things to try to attract casual gamers.

On another note, "Xbox is the casual gamer's platform of choice." What a strange thing to say. If that were true, the PS3 would've never caught up in sales. Most casual gamers I know go for a Wii or just stick to their phones.

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BTNwarrior
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:27:10 AM
Reply

Just looking at the 2 confirmed launch titles (Killzone, and Watch Dogs) I would say that no it is not going casual. If the launch games were Canival Party 16 and Petz Horse's addition than yeah I would see it as a casual cash in.

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maxpontiac
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:37:34 AM
Reply

The development firm I am employed with has a saying that fits this particular situation quite well.

"Running a company is all about adapting to factors out of our control."

Now while this generally applies to cost of materials and subcontractor prices, it's an excellent philosophy for any business.

Sony has adapted to the current global financial situation by using a PC type system, which will only help those who build our entertainment software. Not everybody is Naughty Dog afterall. Plus, they have as made their new system attractive to people who enjoy a more social lifestyle which as all of us know, will only help expand the Playstation brand.

For gamers like us, we should all find peace in the fact that the PS4 is the most capable system to bear the name "Playstation". This tells me that Gran Turismo (for example) will only better. Insert your game in "for example" parenthesis if it helps drive my point home.

Log Live Play...

Last edited by maxpontiac on 2/23/2013 12:40:42 AM

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:14:16 AM
Reply

I don't really understand the basis of this article, although I appreciate the scepticism implied. One should always ask questions, try to look at things from different angles. We need that. These are the kind of articles I want to see on a mature Sony fan site.

But I don't see how the presentation of this machine had an emphasis on "accessibility and social medial elements". An *emphasis*? I does of course depend on the eye of the beholder, but what I saw was a machine that had a focus on *gaming*.

I assume we here talk about the possibility to record, edit and share video clips, and the possibility to stream your gaming session to others. But I see those features as just an extension of gaming. It's not like there is a Facebook app with Facebook chat and picture gallery browse functions, and virtual pets for your living room. Now *that* would be a machine with a casual appeal and "social media focus".

On the PC gamers have been recording and editing gameplay videos ever since the computers were able to do so. This is historically *not* a casual gamer activity.

And the professional tournaments with live broadcast of gaming sessions, and the live streams of gaming sessions on the internet now with the best players having a host of viewers, if that's not rooted in hardcore gaming then nothing is. So if anything, the new Playstation picks from *that* sphere - the hardcore gamers sphere - more than the casual sphere.

You know, the more I think about what we now know about the PS4 the more excited I get. Sony has blown me away with their clear sights. I'd call this a hardcore gaming console of this generation. That's a more suitable label to put on it.


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/23/2013 1:32:00 AM

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daus26
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 5:36:44 AM

Agreeeeeed.

Yeah, to me, we are having too much of these discussions. I don't know how much more there is to talk about. The presentation by Sony is pretty much the rumors that had been accumulated, only better, and we've only been worried and talking about it every week. Rumors suggested social features, but for whatever reason, it's taken as social "focus."

I mean what did Sony need to do to convince everyone that this whole social thing isn't a move to abandon the hardcore? Are we not liking that Sony is opening their welcoming arms to the casual gamers? I personally saw the greatest range of gaming that I possibly could see. We had showings of shooters, platformer, future rpg, racing, family, action/adventure, and even puzzle.

For a show that was suppose to be about the reveal of the PS4 console, I thought it was excellent and well balanced. It's not like they showed us 90% move games. In fact, only one. I don't need them to show me 50 more hardcore games to convince myself because I know Sony still has their first-party developers. I also still know that third-party developers like Rockstar, Ubisoft, Activision will continue to produce games for the hardcore.

And really, it's already been pretty much confirmed that we won't be forced online to play our games. Don't like social features? Then just turn it off. None of it is forced. Now that that's out of the way, and as long as there's great games, which I think would be silly to not think they're coming, why worry so much?

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SmokeyPSD
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:05:52 AM

How on earth is live streaming your play session a casual feature? The entire subculture of streaming which that is very popular is just another world to me...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:40:45 AM

Beamboom, you're not getting it.

Look at basically every single new feature in the PS4. EVERY one is either about playing with other people or ushering other people into the experience somehow. Every...single...one.

It doesn't boast the huge hardware leap Sony has always been known for, which is what some people are complaining about. Hence, that sounds like LESS a focus on the games themselves and MORE a focus on the ACCESSORIES of games; i.e., gimmicks, multiplayer, and social media things.

That's my point. Again, I don't have a problem with the PS4, as you know. But that entire system is just screaming "casual" from start to finish due to the NEW features it's bringing.

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Hynad
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:07:03 AM

Wait... Ben, what is your definition of casual gaming?

You mentioned multi-player... That has me a little worried about what you call casual.

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:20:39 AM

Well, if at first we are to talk about who's "not getting it" (although I dislike saying that to others), I'm afraid that's you Ben.

I think you have to realize that you have become a bit outdated. You are an adult now - a new generation hardcore gamers has taken over.
When you talk about "hardcore" I believe the word you really are looking for is "old-school".

To play with or against others is not in itself "casual". It's just not "oldschool", it's not how hardcore gaming used to be.
Fact is that much of the most hardcore gaming that takes place today, takes place in multiplayer games. Like it or not - that's how it is.
If you are to cater to the hardcore gamers of today, you must - MUST - deliver a good multiplayer framework. It is, today, a requirement from the current generation *hardcore* gamers. They want to see innovation in those areas. You don't, but that's cause you are an old-school gamer.

And there's definitely nothing casual about bragging about your gaming achievements. That's hardcore gamer behaviour right there. Casual gamers don't give a sh*t.
It's the hardcore gamers who care about platinum trophies, strategies, item stats and how to best take down this or that boss - and love to brag about it.

YouTube, Facebook & co is the "school yard of today". It's hardcore gamers who want to post a video on Youtube showing off how they were the first in the world to do a quadruple barrel roll over a pass in the next Burnout Paradise.
Again, causal gamers don't give a sh*t.

This stuff here are features aimed at the current generation hardcore gamers, Ben. It's those who Sony cater for with the PS4 - not the OLDSCHOOL gamers.

Us oldtimers must just realize we are not at the front any more. :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/23/2013 11:42:09 AM

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:19:21 PM

Hynad, you shouldn't treat generalized statements as if they were specific examples.

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xenris
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:29:28 PM

Dota 2 is played with other people and is multiplayer. Yet it is one of the most hardcore games I have ever played in my life.

Also the share feature seems hardcore to me not casual. Being able to record stuff in real time and pop it online on your youtube channel would be awesome but casual gamers probably wont even touch the feature, or they might not even know it exists.

I think the social features are a byproduct of the current generation of gamers. Facebook, is huge, steam is huge, and I think sony just added features that would cater to people who were into that sort of thing. But those features don't make the console seem casual oriented to me. Especially considering there was a graphical leap even if some people wanted it to be a bigger one.

If they wanted to make a real casual console they would have released a console with the power of the Wii for 50$ and made the games 99c.

I think they have a strong launch title list, and those titles seem anything but casual to me. Maybe there are some casual games in there but still, I wouldn't call the system casual just because it offers social features.

Sony was in a position to literally put everything and the kitchen sink into this console and I think they did. They didn't want to leave anything out, that is why it has the touchpad on the controller, the six axis, the rumble, move support, that camera thing, the dedicated internet drive thing(sorry dont remember the name) and pretty much everything that is "current"

But of course no one can know if it is catering to casuals until we start seeing what kind of games start rolling out. If they are mostly 99-20 dollar digital social games then I think we have a problem. Until then I think they just built a system with EVERYONE in mind, hardcore and casual.

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MyWorstNightmar
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:00:30 PM

Really good points.

And I think it would help to know what Ben considers casual. If it has social aspects to the game, does that make it casual? Demon Souls has social aspect to it. White Knight Chronicles?

I thought Ben loved Journey. It doesn't get more casual and accessible than that game. And it has multiplayer too.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:49:15 PM

I'm aware that everything has changed, Beamboom. I'm not entirely sure why you think I don't already know everything you said in that post.

But my point is very simple and very logical. Let's try it this way-

In the "old-school" days, as you put it, essentially anyone who gamed was hardcore. There was no such thing as the dude who played a quick game of whatever after work, primarily because most anyone who was old enough to work didn't play video games. We were all hardcore because it was a primary hobby for all of us.

Now, the mainstream and casual gamers rule the market. 25 years ago, it wouldn't have mattered if there was a Facebook or YouTube. Gaming wasn't mainstream; it was only niche, and hence, would have absolutely no reason to embrace mainstream trends like social media. It's the emergence of a MAINSTREAM audience that dictated the vast majority of new features we're seeing in the PS4. I'm sorry, you can spin it however you see fit, but that much is a fact.

I never said it meant we'd get lesser experiences, nor did I say hardcore gamers wouldn't want the machine (I want it, for instance). I merely said this new console was inspired far more by the mainstream, the masses, and the casual gamers more than by the niche hardcore group. That's just truth. And it's the right thing to do, as that niche group now constitutes only a tiny percentage of the overall gaming population whereas some decades ago, it was the ENTIRE population.

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:37:29 PM

Clearly, Ben. Yes.

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bigrailer19
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:48:56 AM
Reply

I dont know. Theres a lot of things pointing to the direction that the PS4 caters to the casual. But I consider my self at least a little hard core (if theres such a thing) and im all sorts of excited for the PS4. Theres so much more about this console than I imagined. The games just seem to be awesome, and despite what some say, the professionals in the industry seem to be all about this machine, and that excites me.

Some of the games like DriveClub appear to be very social and that would - to me - lean more towards a casual crowd in a way like a facebook or phone app game would. But the hardcore gamer in me is super excited about how deep the experience appears to me. Then of course KZ, well there didn't appear to be anything casual about that. MM's presentation seemed accessible, in fact that was a focal point of their demo. But then I realized I had a huge grin on my face the entire time I was watching not only because it was awesome, but because just like LBP there is so much potential in a very deep way.

You ask me, Sony found a balance we never could have hoped for. Kudos to them, because Im super excited amd everybody should be.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/23/2013 1:52:32 AM

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The Real Deal
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:50:24 AM
Reply

Jack Tretton went on record saying that PS4 games will range in price from $0.99 - $60.00. This means they will be selling pint size version games many of which will just be ported over from the mobile market, but some of them will take up the recourses of Sony. It is safe to assume, that there will be less hardcore games released this generation then any other. More emphasis will be placed on the casual market, period!

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:05:50 AM

I don't think that is safe to assume at all.

What's wrong with casual games now and then? Is it so that if you call yourself a "hardcore gamer" you are disallowed to be enjoyed by games like World Of Goo? What kind of snobbish attitude is that?

There's *plenty* of great games out there, across all genres and complexity. A good game is a good game, and giving the indie scene access to this platform is just great. An indie developer today is one of the big guys tomorrow.


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/23/2013 2:06:51 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:30:53 PM

Hynad: It absolutely is. You may notice that ONLY hardcore gamers typically complain about the length of campaigns, and that's because the majority of casuals tend to only care about the multiplayer and social elements of a game these days.

Again, I'm not making sweeping generalizations. I know there are exceptions. I'm only talking about the majority percentage.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:05:30 AM
Reply

Today's gamer is different from how it used to be for us of the pre-8bit generation, it's not like we are getting cut out of the mix, we just have to live with the fact that gaming isn't an exclusive little club any more.

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touchyourtoes
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:41:56 AM

Beautifully put. As a former Intellivision/Coleco/Commodore 64 user I still like gaming, I just don't like where it's been going.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:41:43 AM

I already get that. It's not about being in an "exclusive little club," though. It's about the single-player falling in favor of constantly connected entertainment.

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Hynad
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:09:44 AM

Ben: So, if I get you right, single player is part of your definition of hardcore gaming?

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:20:37 PM

lol he means it's about the individual having to fall into constant connectivity.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:06:04 PM

You don't even have to be connected to the internet to play your PS4. The hardware so far won't dictate if single player dies, the software will always command that fate.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:57:59 PM

And yet, every last new feature on the PS4 has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with single-player anything.

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Fane1024
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 8:17:34 AM

...which has nothing to do with being targeted at casual gamers.

Single-player does not equal hardcore...multi-player does not equal casual.

Angry Birds is a single-player game.

And, I should note, I'm with you. All the new features do nothing for me, since I'm a single-player game enthusiast. But I'm not at all an old school gamer; when it comes to difficulty and the types of games I enjoy you could call me a casual gamer, if you used "casual" as an antonym of "hardcore" (meaning "old school").

Last edited by Fane1024 on 2/24/2013 8:18:54 AM

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Nas Is Like
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:28:31 AM
Reply

On a completely random note, now that we have the official PS4 controller revealed, you can stop using that fake image, Ben. :p

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:42:27 AM

I have the Dual Shock 4 image. I'm not going to use the PS4 controller pic when I'm talking about the entire console...that doesn't make much sense. :)

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/23/2013 9:42:47 AM

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Fane1024
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 8:20:41 AM

Every other site is...and looking a bit ridiculous.

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Akuma07
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 8:11:03 PM

Why not use the offical PS4 logo then? :)

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Zeronoz
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:57:58 AM
Reply

INFAMOUS: SECOND SON is the only thing in my head right now!

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Clamedeus
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 10:41:35 AM

That, and Killzone Shadow Fall for me. :)

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Xzer0
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 3:18:13 AM
Reply

Some offtopic: I just have read on one of the biggest european electronic store webpage (euronics.ee) that ps4 will launch in europe 2013 on holydays.

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___________
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 8:05:57 AM
Reply

is the pope retiring?
do cows go moo?
is the sun hot?
bloody oath $onys catering to the casual crowd!
no there not catering them, thats why they have the new share button, facebook and other social media crap there!
thats also why they showed off knack and the move clay modeling demo.
not to say there not catering to the core crowd, attention seems to be the same as last gen.
a little of this, a sprinkling of that, a dash of this, and a slice of that.
as a cash revenue for them its great, i just hope there not loosing resources on it!
core always has, and always will be where there revenue is from!
i hope they dont forget that........

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:49:10 AM
Reply

Really, for those who disagree, I have a challenge for you-

Find me one - just ONE - feature on the PS4, one we didn't have with the PS3, and tell me you couldn't label it either "social," "multiplayer," or "gimmick."

And then tell me this system isn't more about appealing to the masses.

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Cesar_ser_4
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 10:17:45 AM

Got two features for ya. 4k Res, USB 3.0, There I win, I shall take my prize in the form of a gift card :p.

Hey Ben, I know you don't normally do this type of thing but, will you be doing a video review of the PS4 once you get it?

Last edited by Cesar_ser_4 on 2/23/2013 10:21:08 AM

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___________
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 10:45:21 AM

being able to download a portion of a game, than start playing it while the rest downloads.
thats neither of the 3.
another example downloading updates and FW updates in the background.
or the integration of GAIKAI.
thats souly for now a way to play previous generation games.
or the simple ability of multitasking, ie playing a game, than opening the web browser to find a game guide, then jump onto the store and download the weeks new content, than jump back into said game.
its not fair to say all the new features on the ps4 are focused on social, multiplayer, or gimmick.
theres some much appreciated much needed features there.
and most of them the core gamer will appreciate most!

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homura
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 10:46:03 AM

Answer: GDDR5 8GB

Hehe, everything now is for share.

Somebody got a platinum trophy. Like or Dislike?
Somebody just finished Chapter 1. Like or Dislike?
Share, Tweer or Upload.

Lots of people love those gimmicks. And in the future, people can't live anymore without the Playstation. Just now the PS4 will anticipate and automatically download what you want. Muwahaha! Sony world domination.

Accept it, we are now Dinosaurs, The Ancients. Hahaha!

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:22:06 PM

Dudes, those features promote accessibility. :p

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xenris
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:41:28 PM

I think _________ has valid points and Cesar also so aside from the points they listed I agree with them both 100%

However I would say that it IS meant to appeal to the masses. But this is just a trend that has been happening for several years now within gaming genres.

I hate to beat a dead horse but ME1 was an RPG with little itty bitty shooter elements. ME2 flipped that to be a shooter with negligible RPG elements. This goes beyond Mass effect into other genres, like Survival horror, shooters, RPGS, JRPGs, and heck even adventure games. All of the genre merges have been done in order to try and pull in that lard demographic of gamers that like maximum stimuli versus maximum input and control. It is just the way things are going, and personally I have been kind of bummed about it for years now.

But back to the PS4, they kind of needed this, Sonys financial situation made it so they can't take too many risks. So instead they built a powerful..ish console and loaded it with social features that would appeal to all those facebook users, social gamers and casual gamers.

BUT they also put in features that casual gamers wont touch. Do you really think people who only play CoD like once a week and that is the only game they play are going to care about any of those features? Probably not, heck they probably wont even know they exist.

TL:DR

So the bottom line is, yeah they are trying to appeal to more people, but this has been happening in the industry for at least 6 years, we just haven't seen it done with a console before. But the features are there less to cater to casual and social gamers, but to include as many types of gamers as possible.



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Beamboom
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:23:31 PM

The problem with that question Ben, is that it implies that multiplayer and social components are _only_ for the masses - not for the hardcore. And that is *wrong*.

It's like if I should first say that all Sony exclusives are casual cause they contain a single player campaign, and then prove that by asking if you can name me one - just ONE - PS3 exclusive that didn't have a single player campaign. The premises of that question becomes wrong.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:29:36 PM

Again Beamboom, you're missing the point. I didn't say those features were ONLY for the casual. I said they were casual in ORIGIN and they are.

I ask again- What did the PS4 ADD that is NOT on the PS3 that implies hardcore gaming? It ALL implies casual gaming, even though it's obvious that both crowds can get plenty of entertainment out of it. That's my point.

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:55:14 PM

I don't see the making of videos of your ingame actions particularly casual, neither do live streaming of game sessions appear very casual to me. Nor do competing with friends and rankings and charts and whatnot. I don't see them as casual activities at all. They might however also appeal to casual gamers.

And if they appeal to both groups, then how can you make a case of this being to cater just for the casual? It's *you* who are so eager on making a distinct difference between casual and hardcore here. I don't even like that separation to begin with - I think it's artificial.

To me it sounds more like what you are really asking is, "what did the PS4 add that EXCLUDES the casual gamers". But that is a different question!

There is one feature that might cater primarily to casual gamers: The Gaikai streaming service. A hardcore gamer wants to run their games locally, no latency, max effect. They don't like streaming services like this. They don't trust them.

But the rest? I see them as additions that caters to GAMERS. Period. None excluded, but non favoured either. If you see what I mean?


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/23/2013 2:02:18 PM

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MyWorstNightmar
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 6:34:16 PM

Ben, when the PS3 was announced, what feature was for the "hardcore" gamer you keep talking about?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:51:41 PM

No, Beamboom, they cater to a new generation of gamers who want a different experience. And ONLY that generation has casual gamers. We didn't have any when I was younger.

Refer to my reply to you above, please.

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Fane1024
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 8:28:36 AM

I'm from an older generation than you, Ben, and I used to go to the arcade every now and then. I some played PC games and sometimes hooked up my 2600, but never owned an NES or SNES (etc.). I was by any definition a casual (video) gamer until I got my PS2.

Every one of my friends (table-top RPGers) was pretty much the same. There were plenty of casual gamers. Hell, my uncle owned an NES and (I think) just one or two Mario games.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 2/24/2013 8:31:41 AM

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Highlander
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 6:41:10 PM

with you all the way Fane, except I dipped my toe into consoles with PS1, before that it was Atari 2600 and PCs (with a liberal dose of table top RPGs and some 8-bit home microcomputer gaming love too).

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PSTan
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:14:09 AM
Reply

You don't like these features? Don't deal with them! Simple as that.

Ben, you must have such a negative view on the mainstream masses. I swear, they're people too, you know.

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Hynad
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:16:32 AM
Reply

Hardcore gaming is first and foremost about getting skilled/pursuing the skills to excel in the games you play. Be it a single player game, multi-player game or any other types in-between.

It has nothing to do with the types of games.

Most people here, I'd wager, are in fact casual gamers. Going from one game to the next without ever mastering any of them. Going for the experience, most often than not the emotional or narrative one, rather than for the pure technical mastering of the game mechanics.

Hardcore gaming is about the dedication you put into your games. It's in the attitude of the players. You can be hardcore at Wii Sports, if you dedicate yourself into mastering its game mechanics.


Last edited by Hynad on 2/23/2013 11:17:56 AM

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:23:11 PM

I'm a completionist myself. I like to thoroughly complete games I enjoy before moving on.

But I reject the idea that that is what makes me hardcore.

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xenris
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 12:45:30 PM

I'm a hardcore gamer Hynad. Put all the games on hard mode, I love the Souls series, and I play some of the hardest PC competitive games on the market right now(Tribes:Ascend, and Dota 2)

So I know what your talking about. I know that hardcore transcends genres, and that a hardcore gamer is someone that plays games to master those games. Do I master all games? No, if I am playing a game for its story and it isn't designed to be hard then I wont really master it.

But yeah, hardcore gamer is a tough thing to define. Some think its how much you play games, some think it is how good you are at games. I think it is a blend of being good at games, mastering games, and spending most of your free time playing games :P

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Hynad
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:16:37 AM
Reply

Hardcore gaming is first and foremost about getting skilled/pursuing the skills to excel in the games you play. Be it a single player game, multi-player game or any other types in-between.

It has nothing to do with the types of games.

Most people here, I'd wager, are in fact casual gamers. Going from one game to the next without ever mastering any of them. Going for the experience, most often than not, the emotional or narrative one, rather than for the pure technical mastering of the game mechanics.

Hardcore gaming is about the dedication you put into your games. It's in the attitude of the players. You can be hardcore at Wii Sports, if you manage to master its game mechanics.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:50:15 AM

Yup. If a game takes the effort to get me immersed in a game, I will take the time to appreciate all of the mechanics and visual artistry. I honestly don't believe in just playing a game once or three times; you will NEVER be able to appreciate everything. Especially now when so much goes into creating a game.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 1:27:27 PM

That is NOT the definition. Casual gamers are the majority of the population, those who just di** around with some smartphone or tablet games every now and then, and who might own a game console that is more used for movies than anything else.

It's also absolutely true that multiplayer is far more casual than single-player, as multiplayer always implies a social element of sorts, which is great for parties, friends getting together, etc. Of course, there are plenty of hardcore multiplayer fanatics but when a casual gamer goes to play a game, chances are these days, he or she wants to play with someone else.

That's the current trend, which Sony is correctly targeting, I think.

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Beamboom
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:52:08 PM

"It's also absolutely true that multiplayer is far more casual than single-player, as multiplayer always implies a social element of sorts, which is great for parties, friends getting together, etc."

Now come on man, if you seriously mean that you need to expand your horizon when it comes to multiplayer.
How large share of multiplayer gaming that goes on across the world today do you estimate are played in a casual setting like you describe above? For what you say to be true it has to be a significant share and that is simply not the case.

Multiplayer games are not primarily a social thing, it's a *competitive* thing.

Likewise, there's tons of casual single player games. Look at any listing of the "casual" genre on mobile stores or Steam, the single player games are *completely* dominating.

You can't draw any casual/hardcore line between those two.

Last edited by Beamboom on 2/23/2013 2:54:57 PM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 5:49:22 PM

I don't know about that Ben. I've always been driven to multiplayer because of the competitive nature of it, rather than any kind of social one. As said above also, there is a lot to master when it comes to multiplayer as you have that human element. I think Multiplayer has brought a lot to hardcore gamers in that regard.

However it is true that casuals will be driven to it for the 'social' aspect. I know people that use multiplayer games purely as a catch up on what's been going on the past week, or will only play in parties with friends.

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bigrailer19
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 6:04:36 PM

Theres some things that can casual when playing mp, like LBP. But to consider mp casual because theres social elements seems weird.

Take Borderlands 2 for example, sure you can play alone, but the raid bosses are meant for more people and taking down a raid boss isnt abiut being social, its about strategy, powerful players, patience, and its just plain hard core. To call theplayers in the mlg playing CoD, Halo and so on casual also seems weird. And by your definition Ben thats what they would be. I disagree.

I do agree however that there are those who only play online, but I still dont think that necessarily makes them casual. I guess we need a better definition here.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/23/2013 6:05:08 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:56:33 PM

Beamboom: It doesn't get a significant share? No?

My friend, Call of Duty is the biggest name in the world of video games. It's the biggest name three times over. And it's ONLY the biggest name three times over because of multiplayer. 99% of the reason. And what percentage of Call of Duty people do YOU run into online that you would dub "hardcore?"

"Competitive" does NOT translate to "hardcore." It really, really doesn't. It never has. Not in my mind, anyway. The vast, vast majority of casual gamers would rather play with other people than by themselves. Take a poll yourself if you don't believe me.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 2/23/2013 7:57:02 PM

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bigrailer19
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 1:27:10 AM

Well to be honest, im with you on that considering the mlg hard core. Only because sure anyone can be competitive in gaming. Im sure anyone who plays CoD for ten minutes could compete because that game is accessible. But throw in KZ2 or Uncharted and its a different story.

But these players are not the ones who play occasionally. And I only use CoD and Halo because they are the 2 most popular for competitive gaming.

But why does playing with people relate to a casual experience? It doesnt for me. Sure I like to play single player games, but take DS3, it was the same experience but I played with a friend and it was not acasual experience. Same with Borderlands 2. Thats why I used it as an example earlier. Its a better experience with friends but not because of the social aspect but because it uses the mp aspect to increase the difficulty, increase the strategy and ultimately create an experience that can be expanded on further. I just dont see that being casual.

And please keep in mind I am a sp advocate. If Uncharted ever adopted a co-op experience for the sp campaign I'd be pissed. That goes for many other games as well. But some games truly benefit from the addition and its not based on any social aspect or casual gameplay.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/24/2013 1:34:13 AM

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Beamboom
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 1:48:18 PM

Ben,
Really, I meet a lot of what I would call hardcore gamers in games like COD. I do. They are just too young for me to really enjoy playing with.

But anyone who sit for 12 hours straigh in the weekends playing a game is *not* casual. Anyone who invest hundreds of hours in a game just to get better and better and practise and compete are *not* casual. That is simply not how the common man would use such a term.

If you really think they belong to the "casual" bag, well then we just have to conclude that we have radically different definitions of "hardcore", and that I really do believe you actually, without knowing/admitting it, in reality are refering to "old-school".


Last edited by Beamboom on 2/24/2013 1:49:07 PM

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CrusaderForever
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 2:10:24 PM
Reply

To answer your question Ben, no. The PS4 presentation radiated games. This was for the hard core gamer. The social aspects only give the hard core gamers a means of communicating in more ways. Sony will win the next gen because they continue to push the envelope with exclusives and care about the hard core gamer.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 4:33:07 PM

Right, this is like hey did digital music cater to casual music lovers? Maybe so but it proliferated the media better and eventually strengthened the industry.

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Fane1024
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 8:39:10 AM

It totally didn't strengthen the industry.

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Fane1024
Tuesday, February 26, 2013 @ 9:26:18 PM

On the off chance anyone reads this thread:

The music industry has dropped from $38 billion to $16.5 billion since 1999 and the advent of digital downloads.

I didn't have the stats on Sun.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 4:32:01 PM
Reply

It depends on if you mean to ask if Sony is catering to the casuals OVER the hardcore market, and that somehow this is a zero sum game and adding that stuff will take away from what WE want. Obviously they are being catered to with these additions, but does that mean our form of gaming is doomed to die?

When MS went almost Kinect exclusive that was a zero sum game, when Sony added the Move and never made a decent game for it that was heavily targeting casuals.

I don't see the PS4's new features which effectively eliminate the need for vidcap and youtube and other time-costly gaming extravagances costing us our hardcore experiences. Especially since those things are already a part of the hardcore experience, they just aren't integrated.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:54:11 PM

Like I've said many times, I know why Sony did it. They HAD to do it.

Doesn't change the fact that they had to cater more toward the mainstream to do it, and the mainstream is dominated by the casual gamer.

Hardcore will do fine with the PS4. However, THEY did not benefit nearly as much with the PS4 as the casual gamer did.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:56:06 PM

I think that remains to be seen.

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Deleted User
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 5:03:41 PM
Reply

I respect the opinions of Ben and Highlander. However, a company that has been losing money every year for awhile can not risk trying to create another revolutionary machine that could fail. It's a matter of economics at this point. I feel Sony has created a machine that will cater to everybody and I am really excited for the PS4 after seeing Wednesday's presser. The bottom line: if people can play the PS4 like the PS3, who cares if it's a social media machine?

Sony needs the PS4 to be a success, otherwise, there won't be a PS5 in 2018. Call them sell-outs if you wish but this is a matter of surviving and making some headway in the U.S. and U.K., where Microsoft dominates.

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 5:08:20 PM
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Why is everyone in this thread acting like the system has to be either hardcore it more casual. It's both.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 5:40:59 PM

But is it in equal measure? From the conference, I'm afriad is weighs more towards the latter. I don't think anyone here is trying to say that it's going completley casual with a full focus on the 'social' aspects that come as a result. It's just...

Okay, this might sound a little bizzare, but elements of the conference reminded me of how Microsoft do things - and I really don't like how Microsoft do things. How they talk about things only barely related to gaming, and have a massive focus on that, like using GALKAI to upload, take over control (incase *shock horror* someone faces a challenge), or how the only features of DriveClub mentioned were the social aspects. I know, Sony aren't Microsoft; a good portion of the conference was about games and things directly related to gaming. But I still got a sense of the casual push that I haven't seen before...and I don't like it.

And that's because, no matter what anyone says, that 'casual push' WILL have a detrimental effect on how Sony provides for the hardcores. You know the saying: You can't please everyone.

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:07:12 PM

I guess I'm not worried because there was nothing there to indicate I -have- to be more casual.

Actually, a few of the features I think will advance my experience. A few of my good friends and I are spread out all over the globe now. And we are like minded gamers in our choices of games. Sharing would be nice additions. We alreadtalk about it over Facebook. Now we can literally show. That's neat.

I'm not sure any of us would play for each other. But that's ok since we aren't forced to. (actually I can see one of my friends asking me to help him. He already gets me to help him when I'm at his house. Lol)

Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/23/2013 7:08:16 PM

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bigrailer19
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:15:56 PM

Not "everyone" I said Sony found the perfect balance. And its true. They've done well with the PS4. I dont feel like im any more casual or any less hard core about games than a week ago when I knew nothing. And ill be honest a week ago I was worried, today Im not.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/23/2013 7:16:34 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 7:53:18 PM

Ludicrous: Exactly correct.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 8:04:37 PM
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I think they said "Hey here are all these new features you can use, and by the way your console will now function more like in the old days where it's instant gaming no waiting"

as opposed to

"We're going to make casual games from now on"

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Underdog15
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:39:44 PM

This is exactly how I see it too.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 9:50:09 PM

Never said anything like they'd only make casual games from now on.

I just said every addition and upgrade they made reflects a mainstream/casual audience's influence.

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fatelementality
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 10:06:42 PM
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You guys are acting as if there will never be a PS5, 6, etc. I believe that this is just a gap that Sony is bridging. They have to test the waters once in a while in order to see what works and what doesn't. Raw power and a lack of strong games really hurt the PS2 & PS3 during their launches. With this new strategy, they will gain sales momentum immediately and therefore will have more to invest in the next generation.

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Highlander
Saturday, February 23, 2013 @ 11:09:07 PM

I don't think that there will be a PS5. By the time they ar ready for that the risk of investing in a new hardware platform will be too high, streamed gaming services will be entrenched, and all the trends present with the social aspects, casual and mobile gaming, remote access, etc... will have strengthened all the more to become the core of the experience. The need for a dedicated platform will no longer be great enough to justify the expense, and instead we will have games running inside virtual machines on certified hardware. Basically a home console version of PS Mobile.

You can kiss the next generation of PS hardware goodby right now, because the PC4 is the last one. Actually, In my personal opinion, the PS3 60GB launch system is the last real Playstation we will see, it was capable of running every Playstation home console game that existed (give or take a few). It was the Zenith of the PlayStation brand and hardware and it's like will not be seen again. The PC4 is a toothless tiger by comparison.

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Ultima
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 1:57:39 PM
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Ben:

> Find me one - just ONE - feature on the PS4, one we didn't have with the PS3, and tell me you couldn't label it either "social," "multiplayer," or "gimmick."

I have a better question: WHO CARES?

Who cares what features added were intended for whom? Surely it's what the developers do with those features that matters.

This entire article reeks of myopic revisionism. Sony was the one who brought gaming to the masses in the first place with the PS1. The PS2 was not just a casual machine, it was THE most casual machine of all time (you don't become the no.1 selling game system of all time by catering only to hardcore players); the hardcore machine of choice back then was not the PS2 but the Dreamcast. How did that work out for Sega? The PS3 is Sony's only true "hardcore" machine by default because it was so goddamn expensive out the gate.

Also Ben, your definition of "casual/hardcore" needs to expounded upon, since you seem to be confusing it with "single-player" and "multi-player", among other things. Have you ever played a competitive game in your life? As a (retired) competitive Street Fighter player, I consider the most hardcore of hardcore players to be the ones who play multi-player (albeit they prefer to do it in person; online is generally unreliable due to lag), not the ones who stuck to single player games or even the ones who mostly play the single player portions of their multi-player games. The most hardcore (i.e. competitive) Street Fighter players have never even touched arcade mode if they didn't have to unlock characters with it. But that may just be me. Yeah, I've done marathon sessions on JRPGS (my record is 40 hours on DC Skies of Arcadia), but I consider that nothing compared to traipsing across the country in order to compete.

Seriously, this article is an embarrassment.

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Ignitus
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 5:11:46 PM

Yeah, the article sounds like it was written by a grumppy old man that is getting behind the times.

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Deleted User
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 9:49:01 PM

I've always considered myself a hardcore video gamer but in a different light. I love playing games on the Atari 5200, Colecovision and Intellivision as I do on the PS3 and PC. Most people would see more of a serious historian of the industry, though.

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Akuma07
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 9:44:41 PM
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John Carmack:
“I can’t speak freely about PS4, but now that some specs have been made public, I can say that Sony made wise engineering choices,”

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Deleted User
Sunday, February 24, 2013 @ 9:51:22 PM

I'm sure many other celebrity programmers would echo his sentiments. I'm glad there won't be any "I can't program a game for the PS4. It's too hard." crud.

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Alcaeus
Monday, February 25, 2013 @ 12:56:09 AM
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I find this whole talke of "casual versus hardcore" ridiculous, it's just how you see yourself as a gamer. How does adding some social features mean that the PS4 will be "casual"? People who question wether a system will still be hardcore enough for them need to get a grip.

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