: Ben's Week In Review: July 7

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Ben's Week In Review: July 7

I really despise the heat. Give me winter any day...well, winter without giant massive blizzards.

Of course Quantic Dream's games are "games"

I've actually heard that ridiculous theory before; the idea that games like Heavy Rain and Beyond: Two Souls aren't actually "video games."

It's utterly ridiculous, and I have absolutely no issue with David Cage dismissing the subject. He has probably heard it way too many times already, and I imagine it has long since grown irritating. Just because we're not shooting a gun or in constant control of the on-screen action suddenly means it's not a game? What is it then? If anyone says it's a "movie," I'll just scream. I always wanted to scream when I heard that idiotic statement concerning some of the Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy titles in the past. Just because they have lengthy FMV/CGI sequences. Of course, no FF had more than a few hours of combined non-interactive scenes, and the actual gameplay length would be upwards of 30 and 40 hours, but somehow the "movie" label stuck.

It's just ADD syndrome. People who can't take their fingers off the controller for more than two minutes or they start to get bored. People who have no interest in the artistic side of gaming, which is exactly what studios like Quantic Dream really attempt to emphasize. You are interacting with a drama; you are determining what happens. This is nothing but digital interactive entertainment; i.e., video games. If we want to progress at all, we need to leave behind archaic principles as to what constitutes a "game."

That Sony boss hit the nail on the head

Microsoft has reversed their used game DRM and 24-hour online check-in policies for the Xbox One, but that hasn't exactly resulted in a sudden love-fest for the machine. In fact, many are just as annoyed as ever, primarily because they believe Microsoft showed exactly who they were right off the bat. What they first announced really was the console they fully intended to release this year. It essentially proved that they A. don't know anything about the core gaming public, and B. don't give a damn one way or the other. They really believed everyone would just suck it up and accept those ridiculous policies. After all, it's Xbox. It owns the US. Everyone in this country buys Xbox because we have a lot of sheep as consumers. And while that sadly remains true, they completely misread the hardcore gamers.

So what if they recanted? As Sony boss Fergal Gara said this week: In business, what you do first reflects what you plan to do for the customer. What you do second is for you. The "take back" was damage control, pure and simple, and MS actually had the gall to celebrate it. As if to say, "Look, we listened!" No, you didn't. You saw what was happening and realized that maybe, just maybe, Xbox wasn't invincible, and you had to act fast. Just freakin' admit it already.

Personal gaming update

Just so The Last Of Us would endure for a bit longer, I decided to run through Castlevania: Symphony of the Night again. It has reached the point where I can unlock all 200.6% of the map without even looking at the map to search for secret rooms. I know where they all are. I also have a cleared game file on the memory card, so I can get all sorts of cheating goodies... It's why I end up walking around with the Crissaegrim, Fist of Tulkas, Wizard Hat, God's Garb, and two Rings of Varda. LOL However, I have to say, I have no idea why it takes so damn long for the Fire Demon to drop Marsil. I don't even use the sword; I just like to have it in my inventory when I play through. And it seems to be a rarer drop that the Ring of Varda!

Anyway, Deadpool was mildly enjoyable but it just had too many mechanical issues. And that character was just juvenile and aggravating to the nth degree. It's too bad, too...the game was kinda fun for a while. You should see a review for NCAA Football 14 this week, and I'll try to get to Hotline Miami as well. The latter just looks so retro cool!

7/6/2013 Ben Dutka

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Comments (71 posts)

WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 10:37:05 PM
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I just beat Deadpool for a review and it was tons of juvenile, random, ridiculous fun despite the mediocre quality and basic PS2ness. The game actually get's a LOT better in the second half, both gameplay-wise and comedy-wise. High Moon flexes some better scripting events in the later parts especially when DP starts messing with the X-men. I had no clue who Deadpool was but now I'm a fan; Nolan North really has range. It was like a western Suda 51 Grasshopper Manufacture game.

Plan to move onto Remember Me soon. Also I bought Mortal Kombat for $5 on PSN sale, what a riot, feels like I'm a teenager again with that game. The Last of Us goes on the back burner until I get in some kind of serious mood.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 7/6/2013 10:50:37 PM

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xenris
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:19:12 AM

Not sure if you have gotten far enough in the last of us but Nolan North plays a character in that game and I had no idea it was him until the credits told me it was him.

He has way more range than I thought and I hope that the reason he wasn't playing Joel in TloU is because he is working on the next uncharted already :P

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:59:25 AM

Troy Baker is good at what he does but he really let me down as Joel, his Texas accent is going in and out all the time and it drives me nuts.

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Akuma07
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:52:50 PM

World. Dat avatar....

But hey, Troy Baker sounds like he is a perfect match for Delsin in inFamous Second Son.

He also plays Yamato and Pain from Naruto. Which bumps him WAY up my list of favoured voice actors. Yamato is awesome.

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CrusaderForever
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 10:42:57 PM
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QD is an amazing dev and shouldn't be worried about what other jealous people say.

Awesome, loved what Mr. Gara said! He sounds like a cool guy and Sony is just doing everything right.

PGU:
Still massively enjoying The Last of Us. I am 60% through it and taking my time. I have been playing Hotline Miami on my Vita and loving it! The retro feel and music rocks! Also playing LEGO Legends of Chima Laval's Journey on my Vita and it's an amazing original LEGO game which I highly recommend. It's strange that it isn't available digitally. It's the only retail Vita game I own.

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WARxWOLF
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 10:53:30 PM
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"Look, we listened!" No, you didn't. You saw what was happening .
true but sadly sheep will buy it no matter whatever MS throw at them.
they are microvirus(MS)to gaming since they entered the gaming world in my opinion.
call me Fanboy , thumb me down all you want ,i guess that what happened when you say your opinion on things.

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Knightzane
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 11:25:43 PM
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Sony is going to rock this generation. I'm pretty excited to see what they plan on doing. Nintendo will catch up eventually but they won't rule anywhere. MS isn't going anywhere without a fight. I expect the same stunts they pulled last gen with the 360. Hand them out for free in certain areas, and so that youth/people will want their friends to get one too. Its genius strategy.

I finished FFx and ff9. Yuna did 56k while auron was doing 99k in low hp. They two shot sin and almost one shot Jecht. 9's music reminds me so much of when i first played it. I was so young i didn't understand half of what i was doing, but the music always kept me going back. Grown up-ish i appreciate the game even more.

Going to start on FF Tactics now and FF6. I don't plan on getting GO'd by chocobos again.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 11:37:47 PM

Makes it even sadder to see how Final Fantasy has retrograded from any semblance of grown up themes.

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Knightzane
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 11:25:44 PM
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Last edited by Knightzane on 7/6/2013 11:25:58 PM

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Knightzane
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 11:26:08 PM

it double posted, sorry!

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Temjin001
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 11:47:25 PM
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I don't view Heavy Rain as much of a game in the conventional sense. It is since you can actually win and lose. The meaningful logical components that would constitute the game in this case are that of interaction in the narrative rather than tangible visible objects. It's an interesting approach and I'd like to see Cage continue doing his stuff. Unfortunately, when it comes to narrative driven play too much of the motivation becomes contingent on the theme and plot of the story, something I wasn't a fan of in HR, and not how the game play interacts with the progression of that story, ultimately making it a turn off, and ultimately making it a poor game in the conventional since. Conventional in that Cage's stuff is dramatically different in design relative to the norm. People can have an aversion to Cage's stuff and not have ADD and can also be an artist, Ben ;)

I'm not a fan of the way MS does business. I envision them as looking at a board game, like Risk or something and they're scheming in their minds, "how can we artificially draw boundaries and procure competitive resources to both stiff that competition while we boast of our own genius in the process? " It may or may not be true. It just seems to me the way MS wins things is not by winning with the best product. Rather, they win through acting like a bad politician in the market space.

PGU: It's been a very busy school quarter up until this weekend. I got to relax with some awesome gaming favorites. I played Virtua FIghter 2, Daytona USA (while singing along... crappily mind you). I'm telling you, faceted polies with just bitmaps and flat lighting has such a unique look and feel. I love it. I also played some Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge, Xenogears, WipEout HD, and Sonic Generations.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 7/6/2013 11:48:26 PM

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Temjin001
Saturday, July 06, 2013 @ 11:58:31 PM

oh yah, I spent some good time with GT Academy 2013. It's very awesome stuff. I think I'm going to have to find a way to get GT6 on day one =)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:15:05 AM

I think Ben's basic argument is that the folks who are quick to deride something like Heavy Rain do so mostly or entirely on the basis of an abundance of cinematics, where the "ADD" types simply can't be away from gameplay for any length of time. I hear about people skipping all cutscenes and paying no attention to stories and it makes me physically ill.

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Temjin001
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 1:06:04 AM

I don't doubt there's game players who don't like or want story in their games so I wont disagree there.
I think in general, the arguments against HR aren't so much in sitting through cinematics. Much of us are used to that in many AAA games. I think it's that those who aren't necessarily in gaming for narrative driven game design boil the game play down to nothing but a string of QTE's and the sluggish steering of a game character. It's the number one complaint against Cage's stuff. At least what I've seen. Those who don't accept the logical interaction between the player and the narrative will only see it as QTE's and restricted more linear feeling play. This isn't just random forum idiots. No, also some critics. I remember, I think from last year's E3, a Gametrailer's guy was commenting on his 'hands on' with Beyond Two Souls. Several times he semi rolled his eyes saying "yet, again it didn't take long for the game to follow with ANOTHER qte. A little while later another QTE" acting so disinterested in the game play.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 7/7/2013 1:06:52 AM

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Temjin001
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 1:08:50 AM

oh to complete what I was saying. Games that have lots of story, like MGS, or Mass Effect, or whatever, also have a large abundance of central game playing components that aren't necessarily tied to narrative interaction. Beneath FF's cinematics is a tactical, used to be turn-based, strategy game. At the foundation of MGS is stealth action etc. A gamer can see when it's being a game and a story. There's more of a clear divide.

Last edited by Temjin001 on 7/7/2013 1:09:45 AM

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Temjin001
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 1:38:29 AM

hey, so does it actually make you 'physically ill' World? I mean if you said ill I wouldn't have thought different than it being a figure of speech. But to specify physically has me a bit concerned haha

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 9:11:39 AM

When I was younger, there were some games that I skipped through cutscenes or simply didn't pay attention. This lasted for a while and as a result, I barely progressed through the campaign. For example, Syphon Filter. It was a game that I couldn't get past the part where you had to diffuse the bombs. I believe it was bcase I was too young to understand what was going on. So I would just play the same part over and over again. This also happened with the game Driver and Diver 2. I had no idea that there was a story to the game until way later when it was free for android devices a while back, it was then I realized that there were missions. So I would just drive around in free mode just avoiding cops until I I was brought to justice. I would rinse and repeat.

I can't quite remember how I broke from that curse, could of been Fall of Man on Ps3 that broke me free, because the story progressed by itself. But then again I can't say because that wasn't too long ago. Maybe it was with Pokemon, had to of been. That was before I had a ps3, BTW. So at least I'm justified in the matter! Or maybe not because I didn't pay attention to the story.

Anyway...

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Beamboom
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 11:42:38 AM

You pretty much hit the nail on the head in regards to HR, Temjin. While I will always insist on that Heavy Rain were an important release, the actual *game* underneath the story-layer left something to be desired - for some.

So it's not a question about suffering from ADD or whatever other insult one might come up with against those who dare criticise Heavy Rain, it simply is just a view from *some* gamers. QD themselves called Heavy Rain an "interactive movie" - and for good reasons.


Last edited by Beamboom on 7/7/2013 11:43:53 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:10:28 PM

So why doesn't an "interactive movie" constitute a "video game"?

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Beamboom
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 1:36:34 PM

I'm not saying it's not, World. None here is. I don't think anyone will say so except those with a bipolar disorder (since it's so popular to use mental disorders in this discussion).

What we talk about is the "game" part of this release. If we take away the "movie" part, what are we left with?

I've earlier said that this game stand or fall by the story's ability to interest the gamer. Without that connection there's pretty much nothing left for the gamer to enjoy. So if we pictured a dial with "movie" to the far left and "game" to the far right, this game would land somewhere on the left side of the scale.


Last edited by Beamboom on 7/7/2013 1:44:05 PM

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:01:07 AM
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I liked Heavy Rain quite a bit for the unique experience it brought to the PS3 but I agree with Temji. It's quite lacking in the conventional game department. Didn't deminish the experience at all considering I knew what I was getting myself into.

Still playing the Last of Us. Only have the Hard+ and Survivor+ trophies to get in the single player. Almost done with my Suvivor + run which will score me both trophies. This will have been my 4th play through. I see no signs of bordem either. This along with MGS4 and Skyward Sword is likely going to be one of those games I play through more than a dozen times in the coming year or so. After this current run I'll move onto the MP to get the final 4 for the Platinum! For a game with gun play its oddly more fun using melee attacks then going in a gun a blazin'. Playing multiple times you learn new and interesting ways to approach situations.

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2013 12:15:30 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:16:30 AM

How long is 1 playthrough of TLoU if are moving at a medium pace?

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:34:17 AM

Ummm, its averaging me about 20 hours or more. My first play was about 26 hours. The rest have been just over 20.

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bigrailer19
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 1:42:39 AM

On hard I was right around 20 hours. Thats awesome for a game like this.

Jawknee-

Whats different about survivor+? Less ammo, more difficult ai?

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 2:10:18 AM

Survivor + is the same as Survivor you just get to carry over your stats and upgrades. There's less of everything and I can't say if the AI is more intelligent than Hard as I've only played Normal and Survivor but it does seem a touch smarter than Normal. You also take more damage when hit. I've had to rely much more heavily on melee, stealth and other none firearm weaponry in Survival than in Normal mode. Especially fisticuffs. :P I've also had to just sneak through a few areas without killing everything as I would have been overwhelmed had I been spotted.

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bigrailer19
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 3:03:41 AM

I found myself sneaking through areas a lot on hard. By choice. Games that give you this type of freedom/choice are awesome. Its like should I sneak through and make ot to safety, safely? Or do you risk it all and hopefully make it out with supplies? Good stuff really.

Thats good, on Hard I was actually very suprised that ND made supplies as scarce as they were, I really enjoyed that aspect. Later in the game though the drop rates seemed to increase atleast a little.

I dont know how often you fail in the game but I also noticed the game assisted me in some ways if I continually struggled on a section. Is that just me or did you experience that and does it still exost in survivor+?

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 3:23:18 AM

Yea, I struggled to stay supplied on my Surivivor play but my + play I'm doing a lot better since I have been hoarding what I do find and relying on bricks, bottles and melee.

If you die continually or restart the encounters enough in certain areas it will give you a few extra rounds. Other than that I haven't noticed any over assistance unless you're completely dry of ammo it will begin to drop a round or two or three here and there. I've been most reliant on my other projectiles besides guns(trying to be vague to avoid spoilers ;) Such an excellent game. Ill probably jump on MP here in the next day or so then start a new game when I go out of town here in a few weeks. :)

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 9:20:14 AM

Took me 13 hours on hard. Might take you 18-20 hours like Jawk said.

BTW Jawk, the MP is so much fun. It might be hard for you to get the two gold trophies because people are better at the game now. Once you understand what's going on, you'll see it might be a challenge.

I got those out of the way ASAP after my first play through. I can focus on SP now, I just haven't had time to play to attempt to plat, but I will soon.

Ooh, and make sure to bring buddies online. Best advice you will ever hear(read).

Last edited by Killa Tequilla on 7/7/2013 9:20:41 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:58:11 AM

jeepers.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 4:59:37 PM

That's interesting actually. How many times did you guys die on your first playthrough? I died 18 times, mostly at the hands (or...mouths...) of the clickers. Never noticed the game giving me more ammo or anything like a dynamic difficulty adjuster. But god dammit I really sucked at the first, like real first encounter with them- I think we all did lol. Then, when I finally figured out a suitable tactic (i.e don't get spotted and send them all in a frenzy), I killed them all stealth-like, I just thought "that is some incredibile design work".

Btw Jawk, this game really reminds me of MGS4 in that, it just has that 'replayable' quality to it. Not once was I bored in this game; I only ever quit because of the intensity. Gunna wait a few more weeks, let my experiance blur a little bit in my mind, and go through it on survivor.

Tequilla, never was a truer thing said lol. Even just taking one person you can actually rely on to not completely screw you over when you need them most, will save you a lot of fustration and near-mental collapse, lol. I probably take it a bit too seriously at times but damn, you don't half meet idiots online.

I've had people - my own teammates - throwing smokebombs at my feet, obscuring me from getting *that* headshot. I'd be downed, and I'd have one guy run along, act like he didn't even notice, and then another come and try and revive me. Ofcourse, he d*cks about first, turning in circles, equiping different weapons, you know the drill, until I'm near-death.

He then frantically tries to revive me, but he's trying to hit me with his f**king melee weapon! I'm like "DUDE. THE TRIANGLE BUTTON? YEAH. PRESS - HOLD". But alas, he continued in his attempt to revive me with his shiv-enhanced 2x4. I don't get how people can have the cognitive ability to operate a controler, yet still do stuff like this! lol.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 6:01:41 PM

Best thing to do about Clickers aside from sneaking by is to toss a molotov at one, it'll make noise that causes all nearby clickers to run into the flames and burn to death.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 6:13:47 PM

But the scene I was talking about, it was just begging to be stealthed through. I also used the molotov tactic, but instead threw a brick to gather them in their firey death.

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 6:31:41 PM

Liam, if you restart an encounter enough times certain areas will drop extra ammo. Not much better a little. And yea, I'm not bored with it yet either. This will give me my money's worth and then some.

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Underdog15
Monday, July 08, 2013 @ 8:44:41 AM

On hard, I was finished in 14-15 hours. I felt like I was being extra cautious and slow. On survivor now and moving along more quickly since I'm not creeping around slowly in areas I now know there are no enemies. Lol

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:35:31 AM
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Oh I also started playing Project X Zone on the 3DS. Pretty cool strategy RPG with a ton of characters and cool battles.

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Pandacastro
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 2:01:20 AM
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Didn't saw a article so I am posting it here.

Tales of Xillia 2 comming to the west.
http://gematsu.com/2013/07/tales-of-xillia-2-coming-west-in-2014

3 vita games are also comming to the west.
http://gematsu.com/2013/07/demon-gaze-coming-west-in-early-2014

http://gematsu.com/2013/07/danganronpa-trigger-happy-havoc-coming-west-in-early-2014

http://gematsu.com/2013/07/sorcery-saga-coming-west-in-early-2014

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VampDeLeon
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 2:50:44 AM
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Quantic Dream's games are indeed games. They also fall into the 'Interactive Movie' category, in the politest form, since unlike say the Metal Gear series, you aren't allowed to skip or just sit back and watch during the cutscenes. Doing so results in failure, or costly mistakes.

I've finished playing the last day of FFXIV's closed beta, and looking forward to replaying during Open Beta. Also, ever since the interest from Kojima in remaking MGS1 again, I've gone back to replaying MG1 & 2 (It's so cool to see where certain chase scenes and similar bosses from the later released games came from) before going through MGS1 again (lost count on the amount of times, but it never gets old).

Last edited by VampDeLeon on 7/7/2013 2:52:24 AM

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___________
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 4:45:48 AM
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i dont see the problem with trying to differentiate them, in fact its actually a good thing.
games are about the gameplay and having fun, QDs games could not care less about how fun a game is, how easy the controls are, how engaging the gameplay is.
there fore its not a game!
interactive media is a far more accurate and fair description.

the reversal of how xbox one will work is the prime example why we never see anything new in this industry!
people bitch and whine till their blue in the face that no one bothers to innovate, than when someone does have the balls to try change something again they bitch and whine till their blue in the face!
so what do you expect them to do?
as the saying goes, damned if you do, damned if you dont.

so hate the june/july months it just gets so boring with no new games to play!
started replaying saints row 3 last night so ill probably try and plat that the last few trophies i get left than really want to finish CLoS

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Akuma07
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 11:27:04 PM

The Xbox One's DRM wasn't an innovation. Those things already exist in the current world. Innovation is trying something new that hasn't been done before. If you were to exclude the Wii U, then the PS4 is the console with the most innovative features.

The DRM features were about bringing about a new standard for digital media. It was the first step towards an all digital gaming industry.

Consumers don't want a digital only industry just yet. For many reasons. One of them is the lack of widely available stable internet, which was proven to be a major problem for a lot of people. The outrage over the Xbone DRM is proof of what many people have said for years, we are nowhere near ready for an all digital future.

Last edited by Akuma07 on 7/7/2013 11:28:07 PM

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___________
Monday, July 08, 2013 @ 9:04:40 AM

so bringing features which have never been on offer is not innovation?
sure, whatever.

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Simcoe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 7:28:56 AM
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MS tried to pull a "new coke"/"coca-cola classic" move, and while it worked for coke, it back-fired on MS.

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 9:21:39 AM

What did cocacola do?

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KidPresentable
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 9:34:51 AM

'New Coke' didn't work for Coke. Maybe next time, huh?

Edit: Ah,you meant the switch back. lol. That did work for them. time will tell if it works for MS. The internet and the first couple of months in a ten year console life span is a piss poor gauge.

Last edited by KidPresentable on 7/7/2013 9:38:05 AM

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Simcoe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 11:57:50 AM

Killa, back in the 80's, Coca-cola introduced "new" Coke, it was hyped up, new packaging and everyone rushed out to get it once it was released. Problem was "new" Coke was replacing the "old" Coke, so the old Coke would no longer be available. Well everyone (well maybe not everyone) hated the new stuff, especially the coke fanboys and fangirls, though they weren't called that back then, just coke "enthusiasts". So the "enthusiasts" raged (well as best anyone could in an aged without social media) at Coke and how they thought they could just remove the product they loved and they wanted their old coke back. Well eventually Coke announced they had "listened to their customers" and that they would bring back the classic recipe and call it "Coca-Cola Classic". The fanboys and fangirls rejoiced (well as best anyone could...in an age without social media), and praised Coke for reversing their decision. The reaction to the news was swift and Coca-Cola Classic went on to have record sales and make a lot of money for the company. Afterwards some thought that it was all a marketing ploy by the coke big-wigs. Take away something that the customer likes and then when you give it back to them the customer will reward you with even more dedication and brand loyalty.

So it worked for Coke, but it seems like for MS a lot of people these days aren't quite so forgiving.

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Killa Tequilla
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:17:30 PM

Hmmm.... I see. Good to know where the "Classic" in cans comes from.

Last edited by Killa Tequilla on 7/7/2013 12:18:15 PM

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xenris
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:49:26 AM
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I wouldn't say that quantic dreams games aren't games but I feel like there should be a subgenre or something to help consumers know what they are getting into.

I would call that type of game interactive fiction or something. Because gameplay wise if you took everything away, presentation wise, and just had basic graphics representing things like say cubes, well the gameplay itself would fall flat and be uninteresting. BUT when you have everything, the story, the graphics, voice acting etc it all comes together to make you feel something that movies usually can't do and most gamey games can't do either.

I still consider it a game, but I can see people getting it and saying this isn't a game because of how the gameplay itself is, so maybe a special way of identifying those types of games would be helpful to consumers.

PGU:

Finished The Last of Us, and was happy with the ending but surprised about one element which I wont spoil. My overall impression with The Last of Us is that it is a great game but definitely overhyped in my opinion. I don't see it as the Citizen Kane of gaming or a revolution at all, why, because nothing about it to me was like OMG I haven't seen this before or omg I wasn't expecting that or holy cow this is new gameplay. No it is a TPS, with heavy stealth elements, amazing animations and voice acting, a decent story(I had some movie science problems with it) great charcters and a scavenge mode that to be honest felt out of place to me because of how it was presented.

So before people explode it is a 9/10 for me still I liked it, but I will explain where it loses points and these are objective points that everyone playing it should be able to see.

First the AI is very spotty friendly and enemy. It really took me out of the game when Ellie would sprint around in front of a clicker in a stealth section, or she would just wig out when I was in combat. The enemy AI did one thing I really liked, they would stay behind cover and try and flank you, it wasn't like Uncharted where they pop their head up every so often, sometimes I just sat behind cover and the enemy wouldn't move at all and that was cool, it showed that some AI slightly cared about their own wellbeing, more of this would be welcome because then you get the goons who charge you will their fists or molitovs and didn't care about themselves.

So AI was my main issue with the game, and it wasn't like it was the worst AI I had ever seen it just was what I expected from this generation and that is mostly predictable and stupid, which in Naughty Dogs defense is kind of needed in a stealth game to not make the stealth impossible.

Story was good and I loved the characters but I had some movie science issues at certain parts of the game. They weren't deal breakers but they had me thinking about them a lot, which maybe was a good thing?

Lastly the gameplay, the gameplay was solid, the shooting worked, combat worked, scavenging worked etc. However I feel like all of these elements were very streamlined aside from the shooting which admittedly was not the emphasis stealth was.

Hand to hand combat looked very good but it was a one button thing with triangle thrown in here and there. I wish they had have got the extra mile and made it a bit deeper, thrown in some combos, and maybe some ground work in there, make it look sloppy and brutal but I dunno I was very unsatisfied with the hand to hand, it wasn't bad it was just very basic.

Upgrading your guns felt a little out of place too, I think they put that in later on because it feels very under developed. Scavenging generic gears to upgrade your guns just felt weird to me. I would have much rather there been pieces hidden around the maps, and that the guns would look more makeshift, not as crazy and zany as Dead Rising but something more along the lines of that.

Upgrading his skills worked fine but it felt there as an afterthought, you can go through the whole game and not upgrade your skills once and you will be fine, I know this because I went through over half the game without touching it and when I did upgrade things like health it didn't matter because I wasn't being touched at all due to my mad ninja skills.

TL:DR

Quantic games should be classified as games but have a special genre label to help consumers.

The Last of Us was a 9/10 for me but I had problems with the AI, some plot point elements, and certain gameplay features felt underdeveloped.

Multiplayer is a riot though :)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 11:06:06 AM

The AI definitely let me down a lot, I felt it was the Uncharted AI only bogged down by running too many cognitive routines. It came out only marginally better than the AI in Crysis 2.

I also thought the gameplay was essentially too shallow for a survival game.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 7/7/2013 11:08:38 AM

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KidPresentable
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 12:25:11 PM

The Oregon Trail. Still the ultimate survival game.

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xenris
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 4:19:36 PM

Glad there are people who understand what I'm saying. Most people freak out when I say that there are some things wrong with the game, like the AI and some elements feeling underdeveloped.

I look at it like this, if I got rid of all the flair and graphics of the last of us and just had 3D cubes and no voices or any production value well then the gameplay would be quite boring and definitely not revolutionary.

I think they put a bit more effort into the story characters and all those elements than they did with developing a game that without its story or voice acting would be really fun to play.

Now I don't think the game isn't fun because I said many times I love the multiplayer but that is because you have to play the game way differently than you do against the AI, humans are unpredictable.

However I still think that the actual combat left something to be desired, and I go go into huge detail of what I would have done to make the game better in the gameplay department but I will wait until someone asks :P

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bigrailer19
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 5:38:09 PM

While I dont agree with anything you said about the game, there shouldnt be any hostility towards your opinion from others. Usually Ill stick up for a game if its warranted (like with The Last of Us) but people have their opinions. And thats fair.

I agree the combat didn't do anything revolutionary, im not sure anyone said it did either. But what it did do was utilize a super solid gameplay mechanic and that combined with the story telling makes it one of the best games ever. The AI isnt perfect either, but it certainly isnt in most games, and while I think KZ2 has the best AI in gaming, the AI in The Last of Us isnt far off. Far superior than most we have seen this generation. Sometimes the friendly AI is nerve wrecking. There were many times I thought they would blow my cover but more importantly they are utilized in a very good way and they actually provide support. Cant ask for much more.

All this combined with the stellar acting and spectacular story telling makes it what it is. To some that may not be the same image I have but its the best game Ive ever played.

I think ultimately (and this doesnt mean you guys in particular) that most people either had there hopes set super high and were expecting something they didnt get or people are looking in the wrong place and unable to see why this game is so damn good. I mean not just 9/10 good, I mean easily this generations best overall production good.

Personally I only watched the very first trailer for it, never read news I thought would ruin anything story related and ultimately kept an open mind because I really had no idea what to expect. That paid off huge for me. The whole game for me was an "omg" moment, and I was very emotional through out. The game certainly takes you on a roller coaster ride and that helps make it special.


Last edited by bigrailer19 on 7/7/2013 5:40:52 PM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 5:58:59 PM

Just gunna have my say...on what you said...not shooting anyone down or anything...but you'know......HERE WE GO! lol

"So AI was my main issue with the game, and it wasn't like it was the worst AI I had ever seen it just was what I expected from this generation and that is mostly predictable and stupid, which in Naughty Dogs defense is kind of needed in a stealth game to not make the stealth impossible"

I've said this before, but the only thing that is obviously predictable about the A.I is enemy routines, when they circle areas or go to a sound source. When you make a mistake in stealth (easily done), then this is where the A.I kicks in. I've had situations where, like you say, a guy is camped behind cover, not really doing anything. Then I realised I'm being flanked by another guy. In my experiance, they were never predictable; this is why the game is so intense.

As for the movie science issues, I think I know what you mean (by scene). Games ask you to do a little suspension of belief, and it's easy to do when the world is as grounded as it is.

"Hand to hand combat looked very good but it was a one button thing with triangle thrown in here and there. I wish they had have got the extra mile and made it a bit deeper, thrown in some combos, and maybe some ground work in there, make it look sloppy and brutal but I dunno I was very unsatisfied with the hand to hand, it wasn't bad it was just very basic."

Combos? Dude that isn't Joel at all lol. He just wails on a guy until he stops breathing. Brutal and simple. That's why it works so seamlessly - you add all the complicated stuff you're asking, and you loose that great 'moment-to-moment' flow it has. Like that guy I talked about, who flanked me, when I'm in the moment I just mashed square, took him out, ran away and transitioned back into stealth. Very satisfying for me. Also, despite what I just said, the game lets you do more complicated stuff if you know what you're doing. Like, you can throw a brick, hitting someone, knock them down, then you get a free auto-aim headshot. Or, get a free hostage. It can be as deep or as basic as you want.

"Upgrading your guns felt a little out of place too, I think they put that in later on because it feels very under developed. Scavenging generic gears to upgrade your guns just felt weird to me. I would have much rather there been pieces hidden around the maps, and that the guns would look more makeshift, not as crazy and zany as Dead Rising but something more along the lines of that. "

Again...suspension of belief and all that. Small feature - you can ignore if you so please.

Also "scavenge mode that to be honest felt out of place to me because of how it was presented". It fits with the theme of survival, and gave more purpose to the exploration. Could you elaborate on why the scavenging was out of place?

I respect you had issues with the game, but beyond some -SOME- A.I quirks, those complaints...well...

"However I still think that the actual combat left something to be desired, and I go go into huge detail of what I would have done to make the game better in the gameplay department but I will wait until someone asks :P"

...consider it asked. lol.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 6:13:57 PM

The more careful you are in the game the less you experience the AI trouble. Get a bit risky and both enemy and friend start to lose their marbles and behave rather ridiculously.

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 6:28:38 PM

I honestly think you guys are nitpicking. Like when you see the hype surrounding a game and assume something revolutionary must have been achieved but that's not what it set out to do. It wanted to tell a story about two people struggling to survive in a fallen civilization that wasn't your typical zombie cliche. It also sought to keep its audience on an uneasy edge with some of the brutality required to survive. And it largely accomplished all that and that's why it received perfect scores from over 74 different reviewers out of 108 reviews. Games don't need to do something new or revolutionary to receive the accolades the Last of Us received. It just needs to do very well what it set out to do. Look at games like Mario for example. Mario Galaxy's are two of the highest rates games of this gen yet its just Mario.

And I honestly don't understand the issues people had wit the AI. No it wasn't perfect but its far better than most games we've played this gen. There's only so much that can be done with the current tech. I found the human foes to be much smarter and unpredictable then most games. My only issue is sometime's Ellie would be in clear view of someone patrolling and they wouldn't see her. But that's likely a design a choice. How frustrating would it be if Ellie was giving away your position at every turn?

As for shallow game play? How can you claim its more shallow when the few survival games we have to compare it with are Resident Evil and Dead Space? Doesn't get much more shallow than those two. I assume some might compare it to Fallout? I couldn't say since I haven't played it but I think I can say they're wildly different games. The hand to hand combat is some of the best I've experianced in a game like this. So much better than Uncharted's. It isn't a fighting game. There's no need for elaborate combos when you have fists, bricks, bottles, bats, pipes etc at your disposal. I think you'd be hard pressed to name a game that set out to so what the last of us did but did it better.

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2013 6:33:39 PM

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Jawknee
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 6:51:49 PM

Liam, in regards to the AI, what I found excellent was there were times I was either running from a guy or chasing him into a house only to be startled by another guy hiding in waiting on the otherside of the doorway when he tackled me into the wall. Also experianced being flanked several times not only by humans but by stalkers as well.

I'll also add that the hand to hand combat wasn't just about smashing square. You want combos? Throw a brick at a guy then grapple him and hit square to either give him a knee to the face or throw him on the ground for a stomp to the face or beating him with the butt of your gun. You could also chuck a brick and charge in with a melee weapon or fist. Or simply beat him with a brick. There's lots of ways to experience the hand to hand in more forms than mashing square.

EDIT: just read Liam that you can brick then auto aim a headshot. I didn't know that. See, still learning things about this game after 3 and a half play throughs. :) I usually rush in and beat the guy or grab him as a hostage after stunning them with a brick or bottle.

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2013 7:20:28 PM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 7:32:12 PM

(slight spoilers ahead...not really though)

lol, I know Jawk, I just panicked. This was in the QZ with Tess, my 2nd/3rd gunfight, so I was surprised and I sorta just went ARGH squaresquaresquare runrunrun, lol. (That wasn't the last surprise either; the A.I continually surprised me through the game.) When you are able to craft melee weapons and become accustomed to bricks, there's a multitude of options and you can strategise your way through.

I agree, you can create really unique situations that happen naturally. Like when in the sniper shootout, I was in one of the first houses on the left side. I threw a bottle in the doorway, and strangled the first guy who came in. Then I went upstairs and I was figuring out a route to the sniper's nest, when a guy starts shooting me from behind, alerting the rest of the group. Then I have this epic stand off from the top of the stairs with like 4 guys in the doorway. Can't shoot them because they won't come out, can't go down because I leave myself open. So I go back and craft a nailbomb and throw it, and problem solved. All this happens naturally within the gameplay, with one mechanic flowing to the next.

This is not shallow gameplay! God...during my playthrough, this is not the thing I was expecting people to say. Like AT ALL. What ridiculous moments are you talking about World? Are we talking isolated ones e.g What EVERY game can have due to the complex nature of A.I, or more general in the way they react? If it's the latter, please explain.

Yeah Jawk, you throw the brick, hit them down, then aim. I think this is how you start the 'beg for their life' sequence. I remember they wouldn't reveal how the A.I reacts, but I guess it's pretty obvious how.

(SPOILER): The moment they sense your hesitation, they rush you with what ever weapon they have with a "you mother fuc-".

Last edited by Ludicrous_Liam on 7/7/2013 7:36:17 PM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 7:50:16 PM

(...this comment system...really gets annoying when it doesn't want to work.)

I'm learning new stuff all the time. Like I never knew you could

(BIG BIG SPOILER STOP READING IF YOU HAVENT PLAYED)

dig through Ellie's backpack while playing as her. Damn I missed so much there, it's the only time we see Ellie away from Joel. I never even SAW a stalker lol, if I did I probably just confused it with a runner - they all look the same when you're blowing them away with a shotgun.

I never used the bow; I messed up all my intricate stealth tactics (I never restart encounters); there's loads of things you won't get to do/see in a single playthrough. The game is huge.

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xenris
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 7:51:23 PM

@Bigrailer, I actually didn't watch any trailers period because I wanted no spoilers at all. I didn't have high hopes. I think that I have played a lot of games and lots of mods and indy games and when I played this game I dunno it just didn't feel that revolutionary. Which yes there were people saying that this was the citizen kane of gaming and that it was revolutionary. Some journalists say its the best game of the generation and maybe ever etc, colin moriarty from IGN in a spoilercast said something like that. I respect that you can respect someone elses opinion though because I still really enjoyed the game I just don't think its this generations best, but then again I don't know what I think this generations best is :
@Liam

AI wise I meant more that my AI bugged out a lot, I would shoot a guy and he would just stand there sometimes, or I would choke out a guy right beside another guy and the sound alone should have alerted the other dude but it didn't, things like that. I redid certain sections on hard mode a bunch and the AI would repeat patterns, not saying that is a flaw but I felt like in some cases they were predictable maybe they were semi scripted scenes?

When I say combos I mean this. I'm tired of games letting me mash square to get things done. I would have loved less enemies but more intimate encounters like in the original prince of persia games. Really I just wanted something like, blocking and maybe a guard break. I was impressed with the brutality of the combat but 10 hours in and I was bored with it, that is just me though. If I had it my way I would have stripped down the encounters with humans and made the fighting look just as brutal but have more grappling elements where you were in control not just contextual environmental moments. Maybe some ground work that looked like sloppy jui jitsu etc.

Scavenge mode felt out of place because you were using gears to upgrade guns in ways they couldnt be upgraded. Its nice to have RPG lite elements but I would have wanted it to be more meaningful, like I said above it would be better if there were peices you have to find to make crude upgrades to your weapons, like taping a flashlight to the gun(doesn't apply for this game) or a silencer made out of something like a pillow or whatever.

I know I can ignore it but it doesn't mean I didn't notice it in the first place or don't think it could have been handled better or differently.

I think the gunplay was done well, it felt weighty and there was recoil, I have no issues with the gunplay it was done the best in my opinion.

I think it just needed more survival elements, like more intimate fights with less bad humans, more meaningful scavenging, and perhaps puzzles that didn't always involve boosting someone up to get a ladder or board, or jumping into the water to get a raft, a raft that looks the exact same each time its used i might add ;).

I think they could have gone some cool places with the puzzles, maybe had some areas where you had to scavenge some supplies to make a bomb to get passed a certain area or finding an axe to break down something, or crafting an axe or something.

I have just played so many games, have friends who are working on indy games, and I myself have been working on a game with a friend too, just basic stuff. So I am always looking for ways things could be different or better etc.

In this game I definitely see areas that could have been improved but left the way they are they are still solid mechanics, I just wanted something with a bit more depth to all of its systems, especially the melee combat. Mashing one button got boring for me, I was waiting for it to open up or there to be a counter system or something.

As usual in person it would be much easier to have a discussion about this so I hope my thoughts got through to you without sounding like an ass(if I did I didn't intend it) or that they make sense. Sometimes I'm not the best at putting my ideas and thoughts into text :)

Still a 9/10 though :P

EDIT -

@Jawk

I understand those moments happen in the game. Just for some reason everything started feeling the same to me in the hardest mode. It started to feel shallow to me. It is nitpicking and it is nitpicking because I got the game a week later and everyone was saying its the best game they ever played, and I strongly disagree with that statements for myself. Its a great game but not the best one I have ever played nor do I think its the best game of the generation, not sure who gets that award Ill have to think about it.



Last edited by xenris on 7/7/2013 7:58:01 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 8:14:22 PM

I avoided all media on the game as well.

Like Xenris said all the upgrades amount to almost zilch, Tomb Raider did survival a lot better in that respect. The encounters with humans were a bit too straight forward, the concepts behind the unfinished I Am Alive had a better, more creative and realistic approach to urban survival in that respect.

edit: my opinions, not facts.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 7/7/2013 8:15:15 PM

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bigrailer19
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 8:25:10 PM

Xenris and World-

Yea, thats why I said I wasnt speaking particularly towards anyone in this thread. I was just speaking generally about what Im getting from people when they seem to have something negative to say about The Last of Us. That generally theres a misunderstanding of what the game is.

I know a lot of people are claiming it as the best ever. Im with that group. So I know and get why those claims are made. We all played the same game and when many, many people (developers included) are praising this game, theres a reason why.

Jawknee and Liam-

You guys nailed it. Im with you guys 100 percent.

I didnt know about the auto aim after you knock someone down either. Although I suppose I should have figured it anyways. The one thing I agree the most on is the AI. Im constantly in a struggle to outwit them. Claiming bugginess is a cop out if you ask me, because thats a far cry from how good it actually is. Its not the best, but considering the situations and confines of the game it works and it certainly helps in the games claim to be the best.




Last edited by bigrailer19 on 7/7/2013 8:25:47 PM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 8:26:34 PM

Okay, just skimming through what you just said (I will read it lol), I can already see something. You're wanting the game to be something it isn't. Beamboom had the exact same problem with Uncharted.

Dude I'd love to talk for real with you, cause I'm really passionate about this game and I jus...can't see where you're coming from lol. But I shall try in text form:

"or I would choke out a guy right beside another guy and the sound alone should have alerted the other dude but it didn't"

Yeah, I remember this happening to me as well! But you just gotta think about the whole suspension of belief thing I talked about. The game senses you're trying to be quiet, and there IS the possibilty he didn't hear it. ND can easily edit their systems so that guy COULD hear you, but you know what? That wouldn't be fun- that would be fustrating.

"Really I just wanted something like, blocking and maybe a guard break". You gotta understand how this wouldn't work in this game. Again you're wanting it to be something it isn't. I understand you want your street fighter game made with these production values and everything, but this isn't it lol.

"Scavenge mode felt out of place because you were using gears to upgrade guns in ways they couldnt be upgraded".

I'm sounding like a broken record here but again, suspension of belief. Those aren't gears you're picking up - they represent parts. What the hell are parts? You can use them to upgrade your guns. That's all Joel needs to know, therefore it's all the game needs you to know.

I thought the gunplay was awesome, the weight and power of the gun is really felt. I love how it sways about, making you think about each shot. Atleast we agree somewhere lol.

"I think it just needed more survival elements, like more intimate fights with less bad humans, more meaningful scavenging, and perhaps puzzles that didn't always involve boosting someone up to get a ladder or board, or jumping into the water to get a raft, a raft that looks the exact same each time its used i might add ;)"

They are intimate though? The enemies in this game are alive a hell of a lot longer than in other games. You don't mow your way through them like in Uncharted. Just compare the average enemy from those two games. I always felt motivated to scavenge, as I always needed bullets lol. As for the 'puzzles', they are suppose to be simple and satisfying. The reason raft's look the same is a design choice: You're stumped at an obstacle, you think how you progressed last time - the raft! You look for the raft, and how it looked last time will resonate for you here. But yes, puzzles have never been a strongpoint.

"I think they could have gone some cool places with the puzzles, maybe had some areas where you had to scavenge some supplies to make a bomb to get passed a certain area".

Maybe, but like I said above, that 'puzzle' happens in the gameplay, where I had to craft a nailbomb to get out of the situation, y'know?

(ran out of space apparently LOL)

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 8:31:05 PM

"I have just played so many games, have friends who are working on indy games, and I myself have been working on a game with a friend too, just basic stuff. So I am always looking for ways things could be different or better etc."

"In this game I definitely see areas that could have been improved but left the way they are they are still solid mechanics, I just wanted something with a bit more depth to all of its systems, especially the melee combat. Mashing one button got boring for me, I was waiting for it to open up or there to be a counter system or something."

That's cool man, I want to do something like that one day as well. But this game is doing different things. The BIG thing that it does is building tension purely through it's, as you say solid gameplay mechanics. I've seen how they are inspired by No Country For Old Men, took THAT kind of tension and re-applied it for games. ND deserve a lot of credit here.

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bigrailer19
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 8:46:50 PM

The upgrades do not amount to "zilch" it really depends on how you use them. I didnt upgrade my health until the end because the game is a survival game. Less encounters means keeping yourself alive, right? Right. But theres a need for it for those situations you need to encounter enemies to possibly replensih supplies. Theres also a need for longer listening distance (unless your Jawknee), because this helps tremendously when you play the survival role.

I mean weapon sway is another huge skill to improve. I had a hard time at the beginning of the game and as soon as I improved it, any gunfight I got in, my chances for survival greatly improved. Shiv master is just plain a necessity, I dont even need to explain that one. So really it just depends on how you are playing.

The weapon upgrades are also a must. If youre going to try and tell me that the hunting rifle is as good with no upgrades as it when you upgrade its reload speed and power I will tell you, that I dont think you used it. Because going from 1-2 shot kills depending on accuracy to 1 shot kills 95% of the time (radius for kill shots widens) is a big deal. I mean really its the same for every weapon. "Come on man"!

As far as the gears go, this represent parts, parts of weapons to use as upgrades. Simple as that.

Edit: oh I see Liam explained this. Carry on Liam, carry on.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 7/7/2013 9:10:03 PM

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 9:17:36 PM

Nah I'm all talked out man, you take over. Talk some sense into them xD

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KidPresentable
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 9:33:51 PM

There is A LOT of romanticizing of The Last of Us gameplay here. If you want to see how the combat should have been done, then it's the Condemned series, namely, Bloodshot, since it's the most refined of the 2 games. Basically, the melee system is the same with punching and weapons with a certain shelf life of use. But you can't just keep banging on square and beat a person down. You may punch a person but sometimes they'll come right back with an attack you have to quickly block. You know, like a real fight, maybe? No one is asking for Sugar Ray Robinson combos just a realistic human struggle, as the game and its supporters profess it tries to convey. As it stands, there are only two enemies you cannot punch out in the game. And the fact that there is nothing to differentiate the others is not something that should 'define this generation'. And if you do say it's the best game ever, I support anyone who believes that, but you also cannot say things 'Well you can't compare it to that.' Saying it's the best GAME ever opens up that can of worms.

About the weapon upgrade system. Most games take the time to at least give you a different model for an upgrade or, at the very least, an incentive to do it. The Last of Us doesn't have either of those, besides the upgrade of the melee weapons with scissors.

The AI in the game, it's already been said it's a bit lacking. And I wonder why the game's enemies have been dumbed down from doing lifelike things. If you watch the E3 2012, enemies were rifling through drawers as you were climbing in the window. But in the final game, they don't do any tasks outside of actively looking for you or walking routine surveillance paths. Then you play a Metro 2033 or Last Light and you see people doing all types of tasks or actions, not just waiting to get killed.

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Ludicrous_Liam
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:08:20 PM

(again...slight spoilers)

You can't just beat up on any person in TLOU either, often there is more than 1 and you'll get gunned down by the others pretty quickly. And it often is a struggle if your using your bare hands.

"The AI in the game, it's already been said it's a bit lacking. And I wonder why the game's enemies have been dumbed down from doing lifelike things. If you watch the E3 2012, enemies were rifling through drawers as you were climbing in the window. But in the final game, they don't do any tasks outside of actively looking for you or walking routine surveillance paths. Then you play a Metro 2033 or Last Light and you see people doing all types of tasks or actions, not just waiting to get killed".

Hmm, well, maybe it's because we didn't know anything about the Hunters going into the 2012 demo. When we see them there, they just look like a faction going through the hotel, trying to find supplies, like everyone else in this world. Except in the final game we learn that they actively look for tourists - i.e YOU - for your clothes, and later in the game, for well...y'know.

That was just ND trying to throw us off. They did it in ALL the trailers, made us think incorrectly of character/faction's motives. Like above with the Hunters, or for another example, from the trailer, where Joel is torturing that guy, and you hear "We don't have to do this. You know that, right?". And we all know that is NOT what joel said, lol.


"About the weapon upgrade system. Most games take the time to at least give you a different model for an upgrade or, at the very least, an incentive to do it. The Last of Us doesn't have either of those, besides the upgrade of the melee weapons with scissors".

Wait, what are we talking about here? What model? The upgrade system is fine...nothing special. You seem to make it into a negative even still.

Why am I needing to do this? I thought this was the kind of site that appreciates a great game. I agree so much with Jawk; some of you guys are just insanely nitpicky.

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xenris
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:10:58 PM

I agree with kids comments about the AI and comparing them to the metro games. Also how he felt the combat could be compared to condemned would have been what I was looking for.

@Liam

I wasn't looking for it to be like street fighter, but I'm a martial artist in real life, have been since around 4 years old. So I get really particular with my melee combat. It didn't need to be combo heavy like street fighter, or even god of war. I just would have liked it to be less of oh I hit him first square square sqaure maybe triangle square.

I would have liked the enemy to maybe block something, and counter me, and then i had to block and counter or dodge. It could have been a very simple system, and it would have made me believe the gritty survival world they were trying to show even more.

I've been in fights both real and in a ring, and if there is one thing its that humans can take a huge beating...well that or one well placed punch can KO a massive lumber jack ;)

But my point is I just wanted something more, and wanting something more is my fault and my issue but again when something is getting praised from everyone I expected to see something more innovative on those fronts.

I mean I respect the game and liked it a lot again 9/10 from me, because I understand what it was trying to do, I understand they succeeded in what they planned. I just think it could have been something really different and innovative had they not gone the streamlined route and expanded on all of their systems, except maybe the gunplay, gunplay was great. Now it could have turned out terrible but I really think if there is a studio that could have given us something like what I'm imagining in my head its definitely Naughty Dog because they got so close(for me) with the last of us.

Anyway its nice getting other perspectives on the game, and I can see why you guys like it so much, I just am not quite there :P I do however love the multiplayer and I thought I was going to pass on it :P

I think we all sound like broken records at this point though so I'm going to step out and see what other people have to say :)

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Akuma07
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 11:02:57 PM

Haven't read the whole chain of comments, it was too long :) but I disagree with the part about the human body being able to take a huge beating.

In my city, there have been many stories over the past year, of teenagers who go out clubbing on weekends, then either get into a fight, or get beaten up for no reason, and end up dead.

Happened to a kid last year, was walking down the main strip with his GF, only to be king hit by a complete stranger for no reason, the kid fell to the ground and hit his head. He was dead minutes later. One punch......

Last edited by Akuma07 on 7/7/2013 11:03:24 PM

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Underdog15
Monday, July 08, 2013 @ 8:56:38 AM

TLOU is an excellent example of why I'm a gamer.

Stellar experience.

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xenris
Monday, July 08, 2013 @ 10:13:30 AM

Akuma I would attribute to the fact that I said you can one shot someone.

But not only have I been in fights, real and ring fights, I have a friend who is a nurse and humans with gun shot wounds, stab wounds etc, all just fight to stay alive almost every organism does.

I know there are cases where people die from what seem to be petty things, but in my experience when the person you are fighting knows that you are fighting like it isn't a sucker punch or a sneak attack the amount of blows people can take is kind of astonishing.

I too have heard stories of someone rolling out of bead and dying from hitting their head, but those seem to be the exception because I have read stories of people getting stabbed multiple times and keep fighting, I have seen fighters kick each other in the face with insane force and the other fighter keeps going.

I will agree to disagree with this but those are just my expiriences with it.

My main point was that I wanted blocking and counters in the game, and maybe when you took someone to the ground they would go into a defensive position and try and kick to if you went in to finish them and you had to avoid it and then there was a struggle to execute them or something like that.

I just have a vision of something in my head that takes what naughty dog did and pushes it to the next level in my minds eye.

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Underdog15
Monday, July 08, 2013 @ 4:04:07 PM

That's great to think of how else to raise the bar. But compared to the rest of this generation, it's clearly a AAAexperience and worthy of praise. Highest praise.

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Akuma07
Sunday, July 07, 2013 @ 10:57:33 PM
Reply

Don't usually do PGU's but I bought Final Fantasy VII on my PS3 last night, started playing it and geez, I never realised how powerful my nostalgia of that game was. It was like I was transported back to the first time I remember playing it. Was such an awesome experience. I can't wait to play more of it.

I also bought Final Fantasy IV on my galaxy s4. It is the 3D remake they did for PSP. Doesn't have the same feel to it as the original does, but it was nice to hear Cecil and Kain's voice for the first time.

All of this old school Final Fantasy playing I am doing at the moment has made me truly understand the effect that those games had on people, and the gaming industry. The level of story telling in those games was incredible, and you still can't even find it in most games these days. I remember how much I loved FF IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX. I STILL love those games to bits today and will cherish them for the rest of my life, and I haven't really found many games at all that I feel that way about in the last decade.

EDIT: It also highlights how crap Squeenix is now. Every FF game from 1 to 10, was amazing. Absolutely amazing. But FFX wasn't as good as the others, and that seems to be the start of that trend, because every FF since hasn't come close to the originals. How can one company not see the writing on the walls?

Last edited by Akuma07 on 7/7/2013 10:59:48 PM

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