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Is The PlayStation 3 Now #2 In Total Worldwide Sales?

For just a moment, consider the numbers.

Recently, a Sony financial report stated that 3.7 million PlayStation 3 units had been sold worldwide in the second fiscal quarter of 2011.

That brings the global total to 55.5 million units. Last month, Microsoft said they had shipped 57.6 million units of the Xbox 360 worldwide. Now, Sony counts its number as "sales" but it's tough to determine if they're referring to the actual sell-through number or the sell-in (shipment) statistic. As you can see, Microsoft counts the shipped numbers.

Therefore, even if we assume the worst and say Sony's 55.5 million is a shipped number, we have to consider a few factors: firstly, there's no doubt that the 360 has had terrible reliability in the past, thereby resulting in a whole lot of sales to the same consumer (I don't know anyone who hasn't gone through at least three 360s since 2005). The sales number doesn't change, of course, but in terms of new customers, it seems obvious that the PS3 has seen more.

Also, have we all forgotten that the 360 launched a full year before the PS3? Even if both are shipped numbers, that's 57.6 million 360s shipped in 6 years, while it's 55.5 million PS3s shipped in 5 years. Therefore, if we remove the first 360 year where it had no competition, the PS3 has indeed sold more in head-to-head competition. Interesting stats, no?

Tags: ps3, playstation 3, ps3 sales, microsoft, xbox 360, xbox 360 sales

11/2/2011 8:49:07 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (81 posts)

ulsterscot
Wednesday, November 02, 2011 @ 9:23:13 PM
Reply

yeah - also for consideration - im on my 3rd xbox - still first ps3 - with the rrod failure rate xbox should be selling more!!!

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BeezleDrop
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 2:46:34 AM

After the 2nd 360 how could you continue to support such garbage?

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 3:27:08 AM

hey i'm on my 3rd ps3 so be careful. my first 60 gb ps3 lasted about 3 yrs then ylod'd on me so i sent it off to sony. the one they sent back(it was not the same one i sent in) lasted all of 8 months before a blu ray drive failure. it stopped reading ps3 games and blu rays. the ps1/ps2 games and dvds still worked. ofcourse it was outside the 90 day warranty so i was screwed. i know exactly why those 360 users replace their 360's. the same reason i replaced my ps3's. i have too much invested in games to just walk away. i now have a gamestop refurbed 60 gb ps3 that came with a 1 year warranty. i picked it up in may of this year. at least i can take comfort in the 1 yr warranty.

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karneli lll
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 7:24:07 AM

"gamestop refurbished ps3"
I hope its not one of those scenarios where you buy a used game for $54 as opposed to spending $5 and getting a new copy?

As soon as my 3 year ps3 started showing signs of going towards the light guess what i did? Sold it to Gamestop, who probably just formatted the hard disc and slapped a price tag on it.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 8:00:24 AM

no the one i got was a factory refurb. it has a green sticker over the place where the black warranty sticker was and is refurbished. i would never buy a gamestop used ps3 becuase i know people have traded in their ps3s that were heading off to light as you say. the used ones only come with a 90 day warranty as well. i had to call multiple gamestops but i eventually tracked down a refurbed 60 gb model. no complaints. it was in prestine condition. i already tried sending off my 1st ps3 to sony but the one they sent back bought the farm as well. sony only guarantees their refurbs 90 says. gamestop 1yr so it was a no brainer.

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daus26
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 1:21:30 PM

Yeah, I agree with Excelsior1. Be careful with that PS3 ulsterscot. At this point in time, most of us are running with the Slims. You're very lucky! Not a lot of us can say that.

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sirbob6
Wednesday, November 02, 2011 @ 10:07:52 PM
Reply

Yea?

Unless there is a definitive take over in sales the xbots will never be convinced. And by that time they will probably claim it as irrelevant and ramble on about the glory of live.

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Mr Bubbles IGR
Wednesday, November 02, 2011 @ 10:12:46 PM
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Still have the fat motorstorm backwords compatible 80GB ps3 going. Its a work horse…very loud. :)

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tazdood1199
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 12:20:36 AM

I have the same PS3, and it's still going strong. Fan gets going pretty good sometimes, but never had any problems. Love my fat PS3.

Oh, by the way, my friend Matt is on his 3rd crapbox.

Last edited by tazdood1199 on 11/3/2011 12:21:20 AM

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anjpikapp3
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 5:04:26 PM

Same here....but once I heard the fan getting louder, I bought a slim just in case ;) I placed my Phat3 on early retirement so now just use it for movies in the bedroom.

I am on my 2nd 360 (which I bought when Circuit City was going under...last time I turned it on was for Gears 3 and I will probably never turn it back on. Now Uncharted takes Gears 3 place and hopefully my slim keeps on going :)

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Stabs88
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 10:55:55 AM

My fatboy just crapped out on me....5 months ago. Was sad to see...but its in the box in my closet. Idk how my PS2 is still working tho. First gen PS2...came out 2001.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 02, 2011 @ 10:19:00 PM
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I just talked game system replacement with my sister's boyfiend, he said he was on his 6th Xbox.

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Cesar_ser_4
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 5:18:38 AM

well if only you wouldn't keep hiding them from him, he'd probably be on his 5th xbox...

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 02, 2011 @ 10:25:12 PM
Reply

LOL! I've only been posting this comment for two years now! ;)

It's about time the media started to wake up to this. Pimping the 360 using Kinect as an excuse to buy a new system is a ridiculous marketing strategy. MS stopped gaining significant new customer numbers a year or so ago. Their XBL subscriber numbers certainly suggest that.

Regarding PS3 longevity; I have two 60GB Phats, one is a Sony refurb after my original original one died in the summer heat. My other is a 3 year old refurb done by a very careful guy that has/had a business reconditioning PS3s, upgrading them and then reselling them. Still going strong, as is one of the original wave of 40GB systems my son abuses regularly. Since we all game heavily in this house I really cannot imagine if we were each on our 3rd (or worse) 360....


Last edited by Highlander on 11/2/2011 10:27:32 PM

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godsdream
Wednesday, November 02, 2011 @ 10:44:19 PM
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It was just a matter of time. I knew it even before the PS3 launch. There goes 55.5 million slaps in the face for those fanbox's, Oh wait! they're shopping a new console because it broke again.

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Russell Burrows
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 12:01:50 AM
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Sounds good and PS3 sales are increasing month on month.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 1:01:20 AM
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no, it's still it's still technicly in last place. there's really no need to to try to spin it into second place. we all know the ps3 came out later and the 360's hardware failure rates were bad with the earlier models. don't get me started on hardware failure rates becuase i have had 2 ps3's die on me. one got the infamous ylod of death and the other stopped reading blu rays and ps3 games. so i'm on my 3rd ps3. i wonder how many ps3's sold are replacement units themselves. we really have no way of knowing, but i imagine it's higher than people might think. especially with the 60 gb/earlier ps3 models.

the ps3 may very well over take 360, but even if they do the amount of market share they have lost this gen has been tremendous. right around half of it. hard to spin that as a good thing. they should not be behind ms in first place considering the momentum they had going into this gen. the over all shift in the market has been pretty unbelievable when you think about it but it's that very fact that gives me hope for sony going into next gen. anything is possible. sony could reclaim their 1 spot next gen.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 11/3/2011 1:02:44 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 3:05:14 AM

So, even if a platform has more unique, or active customers, the fact that the other platform has sold X million defunct units means it wins? Great logic there....

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 3:45:52 AM

yep, we go by total console sales. that's how it works the last time i checked. the industry does not track defunct units or active, unique users. how we do track unique users? it's a cute argument, but ultimately they go go by how many units did each console sale. do the 2 ps3's i repaired/replaced count as a console sold? maybe/maybe not. how many of those 360 units were actually replaced? or were they sent off to ms and repaired? does ms count those 360's sent in for repair/replacement as a console sold? i have no way off knowing, total units sold are the only hard number we have to work with. the rest is just an educated guess.

okay the 360 sold 438,000 units in na in sept. the ps3 sold 372,000. are we trying to say nope that does not count becuase X amount of 360 sales were becuase of defunct units? it's still a console sold, right? it's a lot simpler just to go by the total number of units sold. i'm pretty sure that's the only numbers the industry cares about.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 11/3/2011 4:16:05 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 10:03:51 AM

Yup, here we go again. Excelsior insisting the PS3 is in last place and will always be in last place.

The industry doesn't count defunct units? Then what are all those sold:return ratios reported by retailers? It doesn't matter that there are simply more customers for Sony's product? Well, all right.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 10:47:42 AM

yes they are in last place. they have been this entire gen...as for always in last place. i did not say that. they may overtake the 360. a lot of that depends on if ms cuts their price i think. i will be a very happy person when and if the ps3 does overtake the 360 in total units sold. i'm not going to sit back and try to count broken consoles and subtract that from total units sold. it's impossible to do.

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 11:01:34 AM

Excelsior, your lack of knowledge not withstanding it's a known fact that the first 2-3 years of 360 production suffer a catastrophic failure rate, and that anything between 25% and 30% of them are currently dead. It's also a known fact that the couple of years after than production systems were marginally better, but still extremely prone to failure, resulting in more dead systems. A conservative estimate of the dead system count runs well past 2 million. Even if you simply analyze unit sales of 360s against the total number of XBL accounts (gold or silver), there is a huge gap. Remember the only way to update your Xbox to run firmware is to have an XBL account of some kind. So this should be very nearly a 1:1 ratio with hardware unit sales, and it's not even close.

I'm sorry, but you're trolling if you are honestly claiming that only hardware unit sales matter. What matters is the number of customers buying games. It doesn't matter if you've sold 57.5 million consoles compared to your competition's 55.5 million if there you only have 45 million actual customers, and your competition has 50+ million customers actively using the systems and buying games. That is the point, and demonstrates the complete fallacy of quoting hardware unit sales as the be all and end all. In a normal situation it might be, but when one of the competing products being compared has experienced the catastrophic failure rate the the 360 has in the past, looking beyond the bare units shipped number is important since that number masks the truth of how many actual customers there are.

BTW, in addition to units shipped to the retail channel, Microsoft also counts every unit that they ship as a replacement to a user as one of their shipped consoles. I'm pretty sure that Sony does not do that that since they count sales, not shipments.

Either way, you're intentional blindness is very irritating and in my opinion you've crossed the line from provocative, sometimes borderline trolling, to outright trolling in this particular topic.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 11:42:08 AM

okay. how about this? let me rephrase. total consoles sold are all that matters for me. i admit the 360's numbers are inflated. the day when sony overtakes the 360 in official numbers is the day i'll be happy. i will make note of everything you guys say though. i guess there is an asterisk by ms numbers so to speak. they are definitely inflated.

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xnonsuchx
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 3:39:25 AM
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Every 360 owner I know at work (about 10 of them) has had AT LEAST 3 units and 2-3 of them as many as 5 units, all due to hardware failures. I had the YLoD on my 60GB PS3 while it was still under extended warranty and the unit was repaired, not replaced. I only purchased a 2nd PS3 because I wanted to keep Other OS on the 60GB unit and kinda wanted a new slim model for regular use anyway.

Last edited by xnonsuchx on 11/3/2011 3:39:46 AM

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___________
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 4:02:40 AM
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on the contrary, im still on my first 360 but have been through well ive lost count how many ps3s!
several YLODs, 2 bluray lasers, and 1 unit for some reason would not pick up my move controller.
on launch of the move i cam home hooked it up and i could use it with my USB cable but once i took it out it lost the connection.
i rang $ony and as usual they were clueless.
i took it back to EB, and tried 4 others same problem.
so i rang $ony again and again they were clueless, the best they could give me was send it in.
so i took it back to EB since i had extended warranty and they replaced it for me.
my 360 though, she has not skipped a beat!
only problems ive had with that was some DLC issues codes would not redeem but that got rectified and to say sorry and thank you for putting up with us they gave me a month gold sub for free!
i dont see $ony giving me anything as a apology, i had to f*cking sue them just to get my freaking PSN account back!

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karneli lll
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 7:30:12 AM

OMG, I also have this unicorn that i have not replaced in over a decade. How did it last so long you ask? I never touched it

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, November 05, 2011 @ 9:47:38 AM

What an utter crock of sh!t.

I mean, this guy lives in fantasy land. None of this happened, stop insulting our time and intelligence.

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Qubex
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 4:29:14 AM
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Shows again, the underlying strength of the PlayStation 3. It is only coming into its own now... and the games seem to be getting better and better. Incredible really.

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Robochic
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 6:53:12 AM
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I worked for the xbox so i know first hand why I never will buy one had to quit that job couldn't handle it anymore.
I am on my 2nd Ps3 but like I said to Sony I played the Crap out of my PS3 I don't remember it being off very much the slim is great I want to get my fat one fixed but I think I'm just going to get a nice case for it so I can put it on display kinda like this i waited for in the cold wet snow for 4 hours :)

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 8:26:31 AM

ps3 60 gb fat. best console ever made imo. i even think it looks better. i'm not a fan of the slim's design. it strikes as cheap chinese knock off when compared to the shiny chromed out fat ps3.

i wonder how many here are on their second ps3's or more. i know you, bikersaint, blankline, jawk, highlander, world(maybe he mentioned having problems), xnon, kealan, and myself have all had at least 1 fail. what does that tell us? not much really except this has been a bad gen in terms of reliabilty. especially if you were an early adopter of hardware. i know those 60 gb are prone to ylod of death and blu ray drive failures but becuase of the bw compatabilty i keep replacing it. if another one dies on me i will replace it with the more reliable slim but i won't be happy about it.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 11/3/2011 8:30:44 AM

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 8:36:17 AM

I find it ironic that the same people that complain about Microsoft's inflated console numbers have purchased multiple PS3s.

I've had 2 RROD on my Xbox 360 and both times I simply sent it to Microsoft and they either fixed it or sent me a refurbished one (which I don't think would count toward total units sold). I still find it shocking that so many 360 owners would physically go out and just buy a brand new console after theirs craps out. Microsoft extended the warranty to up to 3 full years for the RROD. Why wouldn't you call them to get it taken care of?

So far my PS3 slim has been great. Besides a recent hard drive failure that cost me $80 to replace (320GB) it runs smoothly and I've had no problems.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 8:51:56 AM

@jimmy

i could not agree more.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 10:06:16 AM

Jimmy, that warranty extension didn't happen until the 360 had been on the market for 2 FULL YEARS. Up until that point, gamers had to pay $150 to get it fixed or chances were, it wouldn't be fixed and they'd send you a crappy refurbished one, which would be dead in a week.

And the manufacturer's warranty is only 90 days. Therefore, a great many people simply opted to buy a new console and hope for the best. Also, let's not forget that the reliability was at its absolute worst during those first two years, and I firmly believe the only reason Microsoft never admitted it and never did anything about it was BECAUSE people kept buying new systems to artificially inflate sales.

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 11:03:30 AM

Oh, that crappy refurb that Microsoft *SHIP* to the customer? That is counted by Microsoft as one of their shipments. So for every user who has had three replacements from MS, you can count 4 units, the original, and the three replacements - each counts separately in Microsoft's figures.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 12:39:52 PM

Ben,

I had purchased a 360 during the Fall of '05 and it broke the next summer. It was still under their one year warranty so I didn't have to pay a dime. What Microsoft did was extend the 1 year to 3 year for RROD-related problems. But its 3 years *AFTER* the new one you received. So my next RRoD came about 2.5 years after my first. I guess I got "lucky" for the timing of them, but I never had to pay anything out of pocket to get it fixed.

Highlander,

are you sure about that? Not to mention sometimes they fix the unit itself, like they did the first time for me. That surely doesn't count as a new unit. I also question them counting a refurbished unit as a new one.

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daus26
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 1:12:45 PM

Highlander, even if that's true, the fatty refurbished PS3s break down on people too. You'd have to be really lucky to make it last more than a year. There was so much report on this I just got myself a new Slim. That to me doesn't sound any better than refurbished 360s breaking down on people even if it's the first week. A console breaking down, is a console breaking down.

I don't care about the frequency of who breaks down more, but if its to the extent that it's "frequent" enough and notable, then it's a bit ignorant not to mention it when talking about broken 360s.

Quoted from article: "I don't know anyone who hasn't gone through at least three 360s since 2005"

This may not sound as bad, but personally "I honestly don't know anyone with an early PS3 model having to go through at least a second PS3 or bought a slim since 2006."

Not only that, a broken 360 is one thing, but a broken launch 60gb ps3? It's irreplaceable! Best console ever made thus far imo, and it doesn't last for many people. I thought mine being made in Japan would make a difference lol. This doesn't really relate to the article, but a broken original PS3 is more damaging personally in terms of cost, value, etc., if you know what I mean. A Slim is NOT a launch 60gb PS3.

I swear, the PS4 better not go through this again.

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 2:18:15 PM

Jimmy, if they actually fix your unit (very unlikely now) then no, they don't count it. But yes, they do count refurbs shipped as units shipped.

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 2:20:52 PM

Then I must be really lucky Daus, since I have 2, and only one of them failed after 4 and a half years of heavy use, before being replaced with a factory refurb. It's well documented that the failure rate of 360s is far higher than that of any other console on the market, the PS3 is not as reliable as the Wii overall, but is considerably more reliable than the 360, the two are incomparable in that regard.

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anjpikapp3
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 5:27:09 PM

@ daus:

just got 2 questions, 1) do you still have you phat3? and if so, does it still work? 2) do you own a 360 and if so, how many have you gone through?

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Kealan94
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 8:12:01 AM
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I am not sure what PS3 i am on lol. My first 40GB lasted 2 years it got ylod. then i got a slim games kept freezing on it. I got 3 or 4 more slims but they kept turning off, i got another but i broke it as i was frustrated with black ops lol. Slim i have now since january is working fine, ive been unlucky with PS3's though i shouldn't have broke 1. My m8 had PS3 60GB got ylod he got slim, but just last year he got xbox i dno why as he only plays cod4 on it, wen he could have just played cod4 on his PS3 lol

Last edited by Kealan94 on 11/3/2011 8:13:09 AM

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Dustinwp
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 8:29:28 AM
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Where's all the outrage about Microsoft reporting units shipped and not sold? If Sony reported units shipped, the nerd rage on the internet would be unbearable. I guess Microsoft gets a free pass for being a US based company. The bias in this country(USA)is downright embarrassing!

Last edited by Dustinwp on 11/3/2011 8:33:18 AM

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wiley_kyotee
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 9:26:13 AM
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It is a well known fact that the xbox 360 has had in its lifetime a higher fail rate than the PS3. Just because you personally are on your 3rd or 4th PS3 does not justify you implying that the PS3 has a similar fail rate to the xbox 360. I don't think I am far out on the limb in stating that more xbox gamers have purchased new 360s to replace failed ones than PS3 gamers have purchased new PS3s for the same reason. I can't prove it, but logic tells me that I am right.

It is also a well known fact that the PS3 sells better than the 360 except for in NA and the UK.

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BikerSaint
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 9:54:19 AM
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As both, Highlander & myself, have said in the past, the PS3 has had to have already surpassed the 360 in "actual" sales.

You have to remember that many 360 gamers are on their umpteenth machine due to RROD's, that M$ gave tons of 360's away at various shows, such as the Jimmy Fallon Show, Oprah, & the Ellen show, gave tons of 360's away at all the Girls & Boys Clubs of America, gave tons of 360's away at the Kinect launch in Times Square, plus M$ also did numerous contests, such as the huge Burger King contest where xbox's were also given away daily for months.

------------

As for my own machines.....
I never bought a 360 till I got the COD MW2 bundled 320 GB console, & so far it's still going strong(although it's fan sounds like a 12-passenger hovercraft at times), but it did came with a 3 year warranty, so I'll just ship it out for M$ repairs if it does start acting skittle-ish.

As for my PS3's, the first one I bought was just a "used" 60 gigger from GS & it lasted about 10 months before the disc drive started making grinding noises when taking the disc in or out. Since it was still under my optionally-bought 12 warranty, I just swapped it out for another 60 GB'er.

I believe this 2nd one died a bit faster due to all my constant marathon gaming sessions without any real breaks or cool-down periods, so I now consider that to be at least 50% my own fault
(This one was the one that the USPS postal gorilla's smashed, thereby rendering it useless, while in transit to GopherMods for a more minor $69.99 red blinking light repair).

Since then, I've bought a new 320 GB Slim Move bundle PS3(and slapped a 1-T HD into it, plus I've also added Sony's extra 2 years warranty onto this PS3 too, for a total of 3 years on it).

And I've recently re-bought myself another 60 GB Phat Mistress, but I learned my lesson about buying PS3's used, so this time, I bought it as a GS "REFURB" instead(FYI:GS no longer sells Sony-branded refurbs).
Plus I also added an extra 2 year warranty to GS'e original 90 day warranty(I've also swapped out this 60GB'ers HD with a phatter 750 HD too).

And just to make sure everything's good to go, I also added additional 2 year warranties on both of the HD's, themselves.


Last edited by BikerSaint on 11/3/2011 10:01:37 AM

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 10:36:28 AM

that "minor" red blinking light repair you mention is in fact a ylod. the first time you turn it on after a ylod it will shows a yellow light. subsequent attempts blink red. the light does not stay yellow for long. mine did the exact same thing. i noticed highlander says the "summer heat" claimed one of his ps3's. you say a"marathon gaming" session killed one yours. how many 360's were killed by summer heat or marathon gaming sessions? i'd argue a console that can't take the summer heat or a marathon gaming session was poorly built. you are on your 3rd ps3 if i counted correctly. so am i. you are wise to have extended warranties. especially if it's a fatty.

now this is just my small opinion but i too find it ironic people that have had multiple ps3s fail complain about microsoft's inflated numbers. i used to complain as well until i replaced 2 ps3's myself. after that i felt like a hypocrite whenever i would want to mention the 360's hardware problems. so to be fair i always mention my own ps3 hardware troubles when on the subject of hardware reliability.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 10:42:56 AM

Excelsior, the world exists beyond your own experience.

It doesn't matter how many PS3s YOU replaced. It doesn't matter how many your friend replaced. What matters is the overall numbers, as you tried to say above. Why are you saying it's all about the sales numbers and nothing else when it comes to giving Microsoft its just due, but won't go with the simple sold : returned defective ratios for the two systems?

The 360 is still around 20% for most retailers; that's 1 in every 5 360s that comes back dead. It was at a catastrophic 33% for four major retailers in the US during its first two years. The PS3 never got above 10%, and that was only in the first year; it has since been at a very normal 3-4%.

Stop trying to say the 360 is somehow just as reliable as the PS3. It has never been true and will never be true.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/3/2011 10:43:23 AM

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 10:55:04 AM

you are correct the world does exist outside of my experience. that's why i mentioned other peoples experiences here. we have 4 people on this small thread on a small gaming site that have admitted to being on their 3rd or more ps3!! i admitted that does not really tell us much except this gen has been a bad gen for reliability. at least it was for myself, but your are correct that's only my experience. well my experience and some of the others on this thread. it's not official or anything. it sure looks like an unreliable gen of hd hardware from a distance.

i never said the 360 is as reliable. you are putting words in my mouth. i just find ironic that people that are admittedly on their third ps3's are complaining about broken 360's. that's all. i am sure the 360 is more unreliable. i believe you when you say that. the 360 is much more unreliable. especially the early 360's.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 11/3/2011 11:14:49 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 11:07:49 AM

Biker, MS counts units shipped - including refurbs shipped to customers. Sony counts only units sold. I keep pointing out that the actual absolute number of XBL subscriptions lags Xbox 360 unit sales by more than 10 million. It should be a 1:1 ratio because you can only update the firmware on the 360 via XBL. That right there illustrates a 20% or so hole in the 360's shipment numbers. If the units are shipped and with customers, why do they not show up as XBL subscriptions? The clear and inescapable conclusion is that there are a lot of dead and banned units, plus a lot of 'ghost' shipments caused by counting refurbs shipped to customers. All in all, if I were a game publisher, I would be very wary of MS' quoted shipments and supposed market domination.

Excelsior, please take note.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 11:56:53 AM

1. i agree the 360's numbers are artificially inflated. 2. i agree there are more dead 360's than ps3's. 3. official console sales are what the industry tracks. 4. i will put an asterisk by ms's artificially inflated numbers but no i don't consider sony to be in second place until they officially surpass ms in total consoles sold. that's just how i feel about it. it may very well happen soon. 5. the 360 is more unreliable than the ps3. is anything i said there that bad really?

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 12:10:15 PM

Official consoles sales are what NPD and other self appointed market analysis groups track. The Industry tracks sales of games, consoles, accessories and subscriptions. The industry tracks these other things because they make their money on things other than simply console hardware sales, and because these other things indicate how active a console's user base is.

Industry watchers like NPD are not the industry.

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BikerSaint
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 4:28:07 PM

Excelsior1,
Nope, my PS3 never YLOD'ed, it went right into the red blinking light, which according to Goghermods repair shop is not the same as the much worse YLOD, hence the cheaper $69.99 for my repairs, compared to their more expensive $139.99 for the YLOD.

Anyways, I believe you missed my whole point on my 360 & PS3 repairs too.
Notice I said I bought the "NEWER" 360 that had the much smaller newer chipset & that's why I haven't had any problems with it yet(but the fan is starting to sound louder lately).
And I have no doubts had I bought my 360 when they first came out, I would've had to trash it long ago due to RROD due to it being a faulty machine , and with only a 1 year warranty.
And that's exactly why I waited soooo long in order to get a newer & smaller designed chip-setted 360

Also, you also seemed to neglect that I said I stupidly bought my 1st 2 PS3's "USED", therefore they could very well been neglected or abused consoles. and both had different problems, one just a minor grinding sound as the disc tray opened & closed, and the other machine, an actual red blinking light failure

Which was exactly why I bought a REFURB instead this time around, at leasr this one's been tested, and/or fixed & it's been certified as an A-OK machine
(And yes, I trust refurbs, as a majority of my gaming consoles are indeed refurbs & not one has ever given me a bit of trouble).

As for my marathons, some of them lasted all the way up to 36 hours without any cool-down periods or major breaks which started my fan to runs louder & faster as time went on, so like I said, it was partly my own fault of ignoring that which led to my red blinking light. And like I said before, I didn't know if the owner (or multiple owners) before me neglected or abused the machine before me either.

Soooo, all that has to be taken in consideration too, in my case.

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BikerSaint
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 4:33:17 PM

Highlander,

Oh, I know, & that's why I stated that I agreed with you in my first post(we are definitely on the same page here on M$'s misleading BS, LOL).

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wenezz
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 11:00:18 AM
Reply

i remember when i bought my second xbox it was the new slim one and i felt buyers remorse streaming in my veins.... because i didnt want to pay an extra $60 dollars for xbox live. So i decided to sell it along with all of my games for $220 on craiglist and it was sold in hours.
I got that money and put it toward a PS3. And though i didn't have any games for it at the time, i was able to go online via PSN and PS Home and play games from there.

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DjEezzy
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 12:15:20 PM
Reply

wasn't the failure rate for the xbox for the first couple of years somewhere around 40% to 45%? I could be totally mistaken but i swear i read that a couple years ago. That is just ridiculous and unacceptable in my eyes. I've yet to talk to someone who still has their original xbox.

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daus26
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 1:15:40 PM

I actually read that it was past the 50% mark if I remember correctly. Of course, I may be wrong. Either way, it is certainly ridiculous.

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 2:28:09 PM

The failure rate of the 360 was around about 33% for the first three years of manufacture. During the third year, MS grudgingly accepted that there was an issue and made some changes, that did practically nothing. The only thing that significantly helped system reliability of the 360 (prior to the Squat) has been smaller, less energy hungry chips. Funnily enough, MS did a typically sneaky thing when they extended the RROD warranty. They altered the system firmware to allow the system to fail in a way other than RROD depending on the cause. The number of RROD incidents dropped off rapidly, but E76 became a frequent search term....

Overall, the 360 got better in years 3, 4 and 5, but the first two and a bit years of manufacture were absolutely terrible. Depending on who you listen to, it was either criminal or at very least intentionally negligent.

The reliability of the PS3 phat systems is in a separate class compared to that, you can't even compare the two.

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daus26
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 12:54:28 PM
Reply

Out of curiosity, and please I'm not flaming... we all know the 360s had a really bad first year or two in terms of consoles breaking down (passing 50%?), but what about the PS3's third year and on, where a lot of us (including myself) who bought the original 60gb, had it started dying from YLOD? Why is this never talked about here?

I've read most of the posts here, and yes, the 360's number have indeed inflated much more than 360's, probably by a long shot, but I just feel a bit of a hypocrite knowing that the 60gb are being broken down and being replaced by Slims. I've seen it around where I live, all the forums I've been to, and even here. No, that doesn't justify the whole world, but usually when you start hearing it that often, it's something worth noting about.

Yes, the 360's number are inflated, but we can't go around saying the PS3's number aren't inflated somewhat too, even if it's very minimal compared to the 360. At least take a little note on the matter. In every one of the articles posted here regarding this matter, I never see it noted that the early PS3's are suffering in around the third or so year. Even refurbished fatty PS3s sent by Sony still breaks down. Can we all agree that the early PS3 isn't exactly as reliable as most of us want it to be, even if it is more reliable than the 360?

Nobody here may have said it exactly, but that's the vibe I'm getting from some of you. As a loyal Sony customer, I'm furious of having to dispose my 600 dollar machine. Aren't you too?

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 1:22:56 PM

hypocrite. that's exactly the word i used to describe how i felt about the matter. those fatties are unreliable. 10%failure rate my a$$. maybe the first yr only 10% of them died. extend out to three years and i'd estimate that number to be much higher. and yes even the sony refurbed 60 giggers will die on you. no it's not as bad as 360, but it's nothing to brag about either.

i think there is enough proof about the original fatties to warrant sony stepping up in a similar way ms did. that's just how i feel about it. cover the ylod on all fatties. blu ray drive failures too. odds are if you have a fatty you are going to get those problems. it's only a matter of time. i completely agree the early ps3's are not exactly reliable. that's a fair statement imo.

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 2:22:34 PM

You're both quite wrong, but I won't bother trying to discuss it as I can already tell from the tone of the comments - especially Excelsior - that your position in the discussion is firm and immovable, regardless of the truth.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 2:58:37 PM

There was nowhere NEAR enough of a problem with the fat PS3s for Sony to do ANYTHING. The defective ratios were absolutely tiny compared to Microsoft and not much above normal current electronics rates.

But as Highlander said, some people are just going to believe what they want.

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Excelsior1
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 4:24:03 PM

@highlander

you are probably correct. my position is pretty firm.i just have a problem calling out the 360 on failure rates when i myself on my 3rd ps3. at least i know i am not the only one that feels that way...there are multiple people on this one single thread that are on their 3rd ps3's or more. ofcourse that's totally ignored by you guys. i guess the summer heat or marathon gaming sessions offed a lot of ps3's for members of this site. we are just unlucky i guess. the early ps3 are unreliable imo.

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Highlander
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 5:37:39 PM

Excelsior,

The trouble then is that you are basing your opinion and belief on a single personal experience. I am basing my opinion on the documented facts and evidence of the last 6 years following PS3 and 360 about as closely as you can without actually being paid to do so.

I'm not ignoring any of those posters that you mention, but I am absolutely saying that as unfortunate as their personal experience may, or may not have been, across the entire population of 360s and PS3s, the facts concerning comparative reliability are not in question. And yet you are not simply questioning it, you're contradicting those facts based on your personal belief shaped by your personal opinion, and you take every anecdotal comment that supports you as a validation of your rightness. I'm not saying that your personal experience is somehow made false or invalidated by the overall picture. I am saying that your personal view is very much an exception to the rule.

As for early PS3s being unreliable. the only point I will concede is this, there are two areas in the PS3 phat that can fail over time. The HDD and the thermal paste/HSF. If your HDD flakes out, you have to replace it, and unless you realize that it's the HDD, you may think your console is dead and call Sony or a third party. If the system has been standing vertically for a long time, and operating for extended periods of time, the continual heat cures the thermal compound and it begins to turn brittle and much, much less effective. With the system stacked vertically there is more potential for very slight movement of the heatsink causing ineffective heat removal. If either or both of these happen, it's possible that the CPU and/or GPU will overheat. Cell can shut itself down before damage, RSX apparently cannot. So if this happens there is a chance that RSX could damage itself which definitely bricks the console.

The early consoles use much more energy hungry chips, however as was demonstrated multiple times, you could run the original PS3 in very warm adverse conditions without it failing. In the long term though, that thermal compound conducts a lot of heat and eventually wears down.

If a console fails after 4 and a half years (as mine did), some would say that was a reasonable life for a system used every day of it's life. Some would say that it wasn't long enough. However failing after 4+ years of heavy use is neither a manufacturing failure or a design flaw, it's simply wear and tear caused by use. On the other hand a system that fails within a year is not well made or has an inherent flaw.

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VampDeLeon
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 9:19:09 AM

I just find it odd how some of us are still bold enough to continually point out the 360's hardware flaw when the early PS3's had a flaw of their own, though it's not at large as how Xbox 360's was (and when it surfaced, it wasn't being ignored for over a year). But browsing through a lot of PS3 sites where there are support threads for YLOD and a lot of early adopters having to switch out for a new Slim.. I dunno it would seem hypocritical especially since one of it's pros was to be everlasting even longer than a gaming generation.

Last edited by VampDeLeon on 11/4/2011 9:20:16 AM

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Underdog15
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 10:11:06 AM

The problem is, you have to go with statistics, and not silly things like threads and personal experiences.

The reasoning is straightforward and simple, too. Simply put, how many people go online and start and join threads to talk about not having issues? People expect their hardware to work, and people only talk about it when it doesn't.

So, yeah, you will find a large number of people talking about failures. However, compare the number of posters to the number of systems sold. You could go to PS3's website, and find 10 thousand different posters asking about YLOD! Which may seem like a lot. But don't forget, that's only .05% of all PS3 out there. There are still over 50 million people who -haven't- posted about YLOD support.

You can't conclude the PS3 is obviously unreliable, just as you can't conclude the PS3 only has a .05% failure rate (When it's actually around 3-5%). Most voices are not heard. Less than a percent, in fact. Scanning forums are hearing your friends personal experiences doesn't help you formulate an educated opinion no matter what side of the fence you are on in regards to this discussion.

So forgive me... but Highlander makes the best points because he is the only one using measurable and un-ignorable evidence in this discussion.

you can call it "crotch riding" all you want excelsior, but until you are able to properly support what you think with actual measurable evidence without baseless accusations, I cannot, in good conscience, ever agree with you. Because.... you're just wrong. Name calling won't change that this time.

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Highlander
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 2:56:33 PM

@Vamp,

OK; "early PS3's had a flaw of their own"

Since I have two 1st generation PS3 60GB launch models, I'd love to know what flaw you think is there. The most notable thing about those early systems - apart from their dual personality as a space heater - is the massive HSF inside the unit. The main issue there is that the thermal paste can deteriorate and result in overheating.

If you're going to mention dry joints or reballing or reflowing, let's just be clear on one thing. The units were all tested at the factory in a soak test prior to shipment. All electronics manufactured have instances of dry joints, all electronics products will develop small flaws over time due to thermal cycling, the more heat, the more likely failure is. But to characterize failures of this kind after years of service as the results of a design flaw is vastly overstating the situation.

You can take steps to prevent that kind of deterioration, or extend the product life. ensure it's vents are clean, that it has adequate ventilation and isn't running for extended periods in a warm environment with the fan running in high speed mode due to the ambient heat. Then again, those are the same things that you tell a PC owner about extending/protecting the life of their PC.

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GGCAN
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 5:46:09 PM
Reply

I've still got my 80GB backward compatible PS3 (upgraded now to 320GB).

I run Folding@Home when I'm not using it and it's been on pretty much constantly from 2007.

Still works great !

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Rogueagent01
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 6:00:23 PM
Reply

Regardless of how the numbers are played the PS3 is still in third officially. I am one of the ones that will not say we are in second until we surpass M$ in those numbers. Xbots will not care but at least I will know it is official on that day.

I have 2 PS3s and one is an original 60 gig the other is a 160(both phatties) and they still work fine to this day.

I seen someone talking about there should be a 1:1 ratio for Xboxs. You are forgetting hacked systems, they are working fine but cannot be connected to Live so that accounts for quite a few of those numbers missing from a 1:1 ratio. Along with dead systems of course.

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Underdog15
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 10:13:46 AM

True... but when more than roughly 30% of Xbox's sold do not have an account to go with it, I have a hard time believing even half that number is due to banned consoles. That would mean there are over 8 million banned consoles at half that 30%.

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BikerSaint
Saturday, November 05, 2011 @ 10:15:36 AM

M$ did 2 big major bans of 360 accounts that I'm aware of.....
and both were between a million to 1.3 million bans each time.

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Deleted User
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 6:00:27 PM
Reply

I find it interesting that while PS3-only owners have deep respect for their investments and don't just shove it in a tight space in their crowded entertainment centre, most Xbots probably do the opposite. The system heats up in the tight space that is lacking air and it RRoDs or something.

I've had 3 Xbox 360s (launch-June 2006, November 2006-November 2007 and June-November 2010) and none of them ever broke. Why? It's because I kept them out in the open where they could be cool, unlike most lemming Xbots who shove a powered-on console in a tight shelf while they go online reading biased BS from so-called "game journalists".

I just ignore Excelsior1, guys. If he gets thumbs up, it's probably from trolls. After all, they always plead to the XBLPET after they have been banned that "Xbox is my life!". That means they visit every website, even for those promoting consoles they don't have. Lame.

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Fane1024
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 4:23:29 AM

My hatred of M$ is well documented here and I gave Excelsior a number of thumbs-ups, because I think he's being misinterpreted. Sure, he's been hopelessly negative about Sony's situation since the PSN outage, but I don't think he's trolling. For a while, I wanted him to give it a rest, but he's just a Sony fan who's disappointed that they're not doing as well as in the last two generations.

At least, that's how I read his comments. I don't generally agree, as I think he's overreacting, but I don't get why others are *so* down on him.

______________, on the other hand, spouts vitriol about Sony in nearly every comment. How he's avoided the ban hammer, I can't explain.


Last edited by Fane1024 on 11/4/2011 4:26:35 AM

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Excelsior1
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 12:23:39 PM

@fane

i was touched by your understanding. you describe me perfectly. it KILLs me that sony is in last place. that psn outage killed me as well becuase i watched sony take a beat down everyday and there was nothing i could do. it was like watching a loved one get into a bad situation and you could do nothing to help. very frustrating if you care about something...even if it's just a company. maybe i do dwell on it too much overreact as you say. i'm just venting i guess. indeed i am disspointed in sony's performance this gen. i can't see how anybody can call going from 1st to last place a good thing. people don't like to hear that but that's what happened this gen.

another thing that is very frustrating is watching all my friends and family go over to ms. my workplace is dominated by these hardcore 360 fans that i can't stand. they are so down on sony. it's so different from last gen when you could talk about ps2 games with your friends and coworkers. it's been tough for me as a sony fan this gen. a little lonely i guess. i wished more shared my enthusiasm for the ps3.

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Underdog15
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 1:30:13 PM

@Fane
I'm -so- down on him because he resorted to name calling after I respectfully disagreed with him. I don't feel like there is anything redeeming spewing from his boney typing fingers.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/4/2011 1:31:01 PM

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Excelsior1
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 2:18:24 PM

i don't recall ever calling you a name underdog. if you are reffering to the term crotch riding. that's not exactly calling somebody a name. but i am sorry for my use of that term if it bothered you. okay?

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Deleted User
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 5:04:54 PM

I'm sorry, but I have zero respect for Excelsior1. He believes in all the BS the gaming media feeds him, he still thinks the PS3 is in last place despite more active units and releasing a year behind the Xbox 360 and even the little things like having no avatar or cobbling up his posts in lowercase bother me. If I could ignore him here, I would.

People like him who blindly believe everything he reads on allegedly "unbiased" websites are one reason why my love of video gaming is waning.

Last edited by n/a on 11/4/2011 5:07:56 PM

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Excelsior1
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 7:09:11 PM

nope. i don't blindly believe anything. i just go by the official units consoles. i know ms numbers are inflated. so are sony's....but to a much smaller degree. i read a headline once about there being more active ps3's. i have no reason to doubt it.

i am okay with a few of you guys being down on me. mostly this is the most mature site i have encountered. members seem to be able handle a wide range of opinions. i have a lot of respect for my fellow psxe members. even the two who are down on me.

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Lotusflow3r
Saturday, November 05, 2011 @ 9:54:09 AM

So far, i don't see anything, at least here, that should warrant Excelsior1 with such hostility. I agree with Fane.

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Fane1024
Monday, November 07, 2011 @ 6:33:13 PM

I will say that I thought the "crotch riding" comment was over the line and gave it a thumbs-down.

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Teddie9
Thursday, November 03, 2011 @ 8:36:11 PM
Reply

Have had my fat 80gig ps3 since 2007 and it still runs fine ;)

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Deano34249
Friday, November 04, 2011 @ 12:08:29 AM
Reply

I dealt with the RROD 2 times before i made the switch to the ps3. I made the mistake of buying a 40gb refurb from gamestop; it only lasted a year until the YLOD hit (LA Noire Killed it). Now i am rockin the slim, however, my buddy is still on his fat that he bought at launch, thing is a beast.

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Leondras34
Monday, November 07, 2011 @ 11:30:15 AM
Reply

Still using my PS3 from 2006, the day after it came out. All I had to do was buy a 500 gb hardrive. :-)

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saintaqua
Monday, November 07, 2011 @ 1:24:53 PM
Reply

My 60gb died after four years and I replaced it with a slim.
I played the crap out of my 60gb though and admittedly stopped maintaining it properly.

I have a friend whose 80gb non bc PS3 recently died after over three years, but he never turned it off. It was his music player, movie player etc.
He even left it on over night.
Not to mention all the gaming he did on it.

How long can a 360 be left on before it fries? eight hours? Maybe a day?

My 360 sounds like a jet and has died once, but was revived by a guy I know...I never play it though...why would I with a PS3?

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