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Kitase: Run For The Hills, FFXV Might Be An Action RPG

Well, of course.

According to what Final Fantasy XIII-2 producer Yoshinori Kitase told Edge, the next main installment in the epic, long-running franchise could be an action RPG.

Kitase said that action RPG's are "becoming a trend" and "one you ignore at your peril." He added that the nature of Final Fantasy is to present something new with each entry (which I agree with, as each new iteration has been distinctly different), but the global market sees gamers moving away from turn-based systems. FFXIII featured a modernized turn-based approach, if you're wondering.

Therefore, there's every chance that Final Fantasy XV will be labeled an "action RPG."

"Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2‘s battle systems have those elements of speed and action that are the key words for us, though that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re going to stick to the same route in our next game."

I suppose I could say that gamers weren't moving away from anything, and that instead, they were forced away from turn-based because developers stopped freakin' making the mechanic, but I think Square Enix stopped listening a long time ago. Yeah, we "moved away" because we didn't have a choice, so you ignore this forced trend "at your own peril."

Whatever.

Tags: square enix, final fantasy, final fantasy xv, final fantasy xiii-2

11/16/2011 9:54:50 AM Ben Dutka

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Comments (120 posts)

Underdog15
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:10:34 AM
Reply

Chances are, they'll do fine on whatever new fans they bring in. If it's good, of course I get it, but it is disappointing that the series is no longer a title I await with bated breath. In other words, if my backlog continues to grow, I might not be buying this until it's on the cheap.


Still waiting for a near flawless turn-based game this gen... White Knight Chronicles was good, but I'm looking for something truly great... something of the quality FF's used to bring to the table.

Should be interesting to see how Japan handles the switch.

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:53:39 AM

Considering how they reacted to FFXIII, it won't go well. People there bought the game on name value, but there was a major case of buyer's remorse and customer dis-satisfaction with the game.

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:22:24 PM

yeah, i saw news on that too. week final fantasy 13 came out people bought a whole damn lot. by the time the second week came there were a whole lot of used games being sold at close to bargain bin prices. not to mention the outrage by japanese customers on the internet. all i can say is that thanks to the long localization period, i knew what to expect. now final fantasy for me is not a must buy game anymore.

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FatherSun
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 3:40:52 PM

My Japanese friends are disgusted with the changes and many in their circles feel the same way. Can't wait to heart what they have to say about this.

They have been abandoned. Orphaned by the industry and hoping that someone.. Anyone can filll the gap. SE should "LISTEN" to their true fanbase. We understand the need to grow and expand but not at the cost of those who got you to the legendary status in the first place. So sad.

SE should just make 2 types of FF games. Action, puzzle, horror, heck make a racing game for all we care. But also make the RPG we know they are capable of. Make it Japan only if anything. Many will import if it means they get that old school feeling back.

P.S. What of VERSUS?

Last edited by FatherSun on 11/16/2011 3:44:19 PM

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Vivi_Gamer
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:16:33 AM
Reply

This is what we get for people binge whinging about XIII's battle system, S-E now feels bad from the reaction and are discarding it. I personaly liked XIII's battle system, The focus was more on switching to the right paradigm for the right moment in battle. I found myself changing all the time. I found it a fresh new way for menu activated combat. But if this and the industry is anything to go by I am sure Final Fantasy XV will be more like Nier or Fable.... Which is a shame.

From what I have seen of XIII-2 I am already concerned that it seems too action orinated. Whith its quicktime events and multiple endings. I am a little worried for it, still only a few more months and it'll be in my hands.

What I really want to know is if FFXV will be on the PS3, I want new styled FF on the PS3, sure versus is different but its still linked to XIII (somehow) What was great about the PS1 FF titles was there variety. You have IX set in the past, VII replicating modern times and VIII themed in a futuristic manner. I want a new world and new characters and a new story. If this is not for the PS3, that means the only FF on the PS3 will have been XIII... which While I like unlike most people I speak to... its just not enough.

(Yes I am aware about FFXIV coming to the PS3, But as an online game it is a completely different experience and with a monthly charge, to me is irrelevant.)

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:26:35 PM

multiple endings? if that true then i'm really done with final fantasy, if i wasnt before anyway. i couldnt be bothered to replay final fantasy 13 and that only had 1 ending. i wonder though, how hard is it to include a turn based mode in a game as big as final fantasy? they can make a slider in the options menu on how fast they want battles to go. like a full bar would be standard or the way they meant the game to be played then the lower you go, the more it becomes standard turn based gameplay.

Last edited by johnld on 11/16/2011 12:27:04 PM

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Vivi_Gamer
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 2:06:35 PM

This is something that concerns me too. X-2 was torture to playthrough and when you reached the ending, oh wait you did not complete all the miscellaneous task to get the 'True' ending, one I heard that I just stopped playing the game altogether.

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dmiitrie
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 2:17:12 PM

@Ultimadream: If you were any more wrong about the reaction to 13, I'd swear that you actually worked for Square-Enix. In short, people complained, quite explicitly, that it was too actiony. We didn't get this because people didn't like 13's combat system, we got it because Square-Enix is either ignorant of, or is willfully ignoring, the desires of their core fanbase.

So to blame this statement on people who were unhappy with 13 would be like seeing an ice cream shop that starting to only sell chocolate ice cream and blame the people who complained about there not being enough vanilla.

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:04:28 PM

didnt mind the "true" ending part in x-2, i actually liked the game. i got the true ending either way because i usually play the hell out of a final fantasy game to make sure i did everything before i ended the game.

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Godslim
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:21:06 AM
Reply

Run to the hillsssss!!! hehe iron maiden!!
noooooooo i dont want a action rpg even ff13 combat system i didnt like
i prefer FF to have a combat system more like 10 or 12.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:25:29 AM
Reply

I gotta add another comment... as a passionate long time fan.

When did the traditional turn-based system stop working for them? When did that start failing? What caused them to think that they need to completely change what the games are all about and have been about for 20 years?

Nothing... They've always had success with their turn based element. FFX was seen as a staple for the PS2 and nothing rivaled it for years. And everyone thought so!

And don't give me that BS about how it's because we didn't have the tech to give a high quality action game. It's just not true. Look at the God of War series. Yet Dragon Quest 8 and FFX came out for the same system to incredible critical acclaim...

So, when they finally remove the one element that has been the foundation of the franchise's 20 year gameplay and score a meta average full point lower than other entries in the series.... they believe it's because... the games before XIII weren't good enough? The ones that were successful from critic, user, and monetary feedback?

It just doesn't make sense...

Have they just run out of ideas for turn based? I know they say they always change their games, and that's true... they have... but until now, they've always been able to mix it up with variety while maintaining that turn based foundation! FFX-2 was fairly fast paced, and that battle system was fantastic! (Even if you hated the dialogue of the game, that battle system was top notch!)

I mean... if they had stuck to their guns and kept their turn based elements where AUTO battle isn't necessary... and THEN it had incredible backlash and a lack of success... then yeah... they would have a right to believe they need to make their games more actiony to keep up with the times.

But the traditional approach hasn't failed them... it's their new attempts that are failing them.

It just.... doesn't... make... sense. They haven't even given their 20-year established approach a -chance- this generation... not even a -chance- to succeed! How can they conclude it's not what gamers want...

I mean, really! They have always been a guaranteed success. ALWAYS. But lately, they've made FFXIII and FFXIV. The latter of which is a disaster, and the prior, while good, could not keep up with past titles. By a full 10% in meta critic averages! Should that not be a sign that drastic change is NOT working for them? That maybe, they should return to a working formula? Apparently not!

I really hope Ni No Kuni sells like mad....

Arg!

/rant/

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/16/2011 10:31:26 AM

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main_event05
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:34:40 AM

*Cough, Microsoft

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daus26
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:47:46 AM

Yeah, I hope Ni No Kuni will sell loads. Just maybe, it'll make SE re-think their thoughts. At this point, I doubt it. They'd have to hire a new chairman, at least.

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:52:38 AM

I'll be buying Ni No Kuni, as will my wife.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/16/2011 10:56:36 AM

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:02:30 PM

Well warranted rant Underdog15 and so damn true.

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:30:52 PM

i think its more about greed than turn based failing them. turn based games was basically a niche market back then. there were more than enough fans of the system to keep square enix going. then they saw call of duty success, which i think square enix publishes in japan, and decided they want more. granted the games production value is as high as they usually make final fantasy games but they just completely ignored their long time followers with final fantasy 13.

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FatherSun
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 3:51:53 PM

There is a SPECTACULAR flaw with your comments.

They are based on LOGIC. Something SE seems to have lost in this generation.

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main_event05
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 8:10:17 PM

To be fair to M$ I kinda place the blame on Kingdom Hearts. KH and FF12 came out at bout the same time and I kinda think that because KH was so successful with the Action/RPG elements that became the norm. However, I think that SE failed to realize that, at the time, KH appealed to a much larger demographic that FF did, not that FF12 was a flop, but still. That's my take on it.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:26:01 AM
Reply

I guess we should have seen that coming, what a crock of sh*t. People wanted them to go BACK to what works, not follow lame trends. This would be like Elder Scrolls ditching open world or Gran Turismo ditching simulation.

The only thing they ignore at their peril is the fans. FF can only tank further on this path. Let Versus and other spin-offs handle the action RPGs.

"Alas poor Final Fantasy, a thousand times it bore me upon its back, and now how abhorred in my imagination it is. My gorge rises at it." To paraphrase a certain someone.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 11/16/2011 10:34:46 AM

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daus26
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:33:47 AM

"Gran Turismo ditching simulation."

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Eek!!

It's that bad huh? That's serious. If this is how you guys really feel about SE ditching old school gameplay, I pray for you guys that there will be other developers/publishers to deliver even a better experience. I'm so sorry guys. :(

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Quincho
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:18:21 AM

yup, thats exactly how we feel! it doesent make sence! WHYYYYY!!

Last edited by Quincho on 11/16/2011 11:18:30 AM

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:34:39 PM

@world

if i'm not mistaken, arent you buying final fantasy 13-2 day 1? does that change you mind about 13-2 or even ff14? as for me, the final fantasy franchise has dropped off my must buy list. it was probably sitting on my #2 spot right behind legend of zelda. if final fantasy games are leaning towards action now, then i dont want a final fantasy 7 remake. we all know they're not gonna listen to fans anyway so let that die already.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 1:39:06 PM

I am, I'll be getting it for $24 after using some rewards. I do have a massive beef with the changes to the series, but although XIII wasn't what I wanted it was still a very good game and XIII-2 has clearly demonstrated that it has overcome most of the issues XIII had. As much as I prefer the old school play you still have to roll with the punches in these dark times.

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FatherSun
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 3:59:58 PM

Little Johnny LOVES PIZZA , sooo... Lets give him cake.. What? He hates cake.. Ok.. Give him salad. What? He hates salad too. Ok.. Lets give him some potatoes... No... Maybe somthing else.. Getting worried.. Johnny is not eating.. What to do?

Hey SE .. How about you give the kid some PIZZA!

Last edited by FatherSun on 11/16/2011 4:00:33 PM

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dmiitrie
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:37:01 AM
Reply

Almost despite myself, I held out hope that Square-Enix would somehow find a way to put out a good, quality title like they used to with such regularity. But after the disappointment of 12, the travesty of 13, and now this, I think it's time for me to throw in my towel.

Oh well, I got 20 years out of Final Fantasy. That's better than any other series.

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:51:53 AM

My personal sentiment has shifted a little, I am still mostly in the; "So who the hell are SE? Oh, that's right, they're dead to me." school of thought. But part of me says f**k them, they're a$$h***s. Yes, even I think with words like that sometimes.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/16/2011 10:55:37 AM

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Beamboom
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:37:08 AM

"Oh well, I got 20 years out of Final Fantasy" - I like that way of thinking. Keep the good memories and move on!

Nothing last forever, right? And 20 years is an amazingly long period! Think about all those who only get 2-3 titles in a franchise they love!



Last edited by Beamboom on 11/16/2011 11:38:51 AM

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:42:48 AM

Not helping Beamboom, not helping.

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Beamboom
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:07:03 PM

lol -ok sorry :D

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:39:08 PM

you have to say though, quality wise square enix on top of its game. i loved X-2 and 12, although i didnt like the political crap that tied 12 together. they just got greedy and believed that all the fans they lost with 13 will be replaced with new fans. i guess when squaresoft merged with enix, they stopped being a game company and started becoming a corporation. they didnt make games to make games anymore, they made games for profit and nothing else. i think thats why most of the people who were the key players of squaresoft are leaving square enix.

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dmiitrie
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 1:45:00 PM

@johnld: That all depends on how you define quality. It's never been in question that Square-Enix has always been one of the best developers in terms of production value. For all the things I hate about it, 13 is one of the best looking games I've seen.

But I, for one, am relatively unimpressed with production value. Don't get me wrong, it's important and games should definitely always look as good as they can, but it really should be a secondary objective.

Nothing trumps gameplay. If a game is fun to play, a whole host of lesser issues can be forgiven. Bethesda routinely gets hammered for flaws in their games, but people still buy them because, at their core, Bethesda makes fun games. Likewise, despite all of the things they do exceptionally well, I believe that Final Fantasy will eventually see their sales go down significantly because they've abandoned a gameplay mechanic that they core audience values very highly.

So, to refute your point a little more succinctly, no, Square-Enix is most decidedly NOT on top of its game and hasn't been for nearly 10 years now. 12 marked the most dramatic shift in mechanics at that time, and was relatively poorly received. The common complaints being that they tried to make it too much like an MMO. And then came 13 and now this announcement for 15. Each game being a cumulative abandonment of the style of game that attracted their core fans to begin with.

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FatherSun
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 4:10:05 PM

What I dont understand is why they made drastic changes then act surprised by the backlash. If I make a killing on selling something, would I stop selling it completely to sell something else. No, I would experiment with the new product to see if it sells. Maybe then will I diiscontinue the old product.

SE is brilliant. But they seem lost. Hopefully someday they will regain that magic. I wish them luck.

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main_event05
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:39:09 AM
Reply

This is a non-issue for me. I'm not even considering thinking about the decision of whether or not I should even make the choice ignore any future Final Fantasy.

Fun Fact #315: I have yet to finish FF13, and I'm really not that torn up about it.



Last edited by main_event05 on 11/16/2011 10:41:10 AM

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daus26
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:43:02 AM
Reply

I don't believe it. It's not that I don't see it coming, but I can't believe it's really going to the point where a non-spin off, full-fledged FF title is going to be action oriented in gameplay.

And I agree. That one statement is just ridiculous. How is it moving away, if we never had the choice in the first place. Are they looking at Western RPGs and how well they're selling? Are they looking at JRPG scores from critics? I guess it's pretty clear that they're definitely not looking at the perspective of the hardcore fans.

This also reminds me of how annoyed I am on how my native, asian country have been really westernized. The majority pretty much uses english, and they use songs that are from the U.S. in their movies, commercials, etc. I mean do they not have their own culture and language? Is Japanese gaming going in the same direction?

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:49:41 AM

I sure as hell hope not Daus. I for one love and have loved that Japanese flare and culture for decades, the influences it brought to gaming have been the most valuable aspects of gaming to date. If those things are washed away in a wave of westernization, or Americanization, it's not just a tragedy, it's a crime. If Japanese culture is overcome by Western/American culture, it's nothing less than a crime against humanity. I'm sick of the cultural imperialism of America, much of which is not even consciously sought, but rather happens as the result of the financial impact of the US in the World economy.

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Quincho
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:10:51 AM

Globalization sucks!! we should celebrate our differences not erase them!

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Jawknee
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:17:31 AM

So if Japan wants to be more like the West it's America's fault?

Right....

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:19:11 AM

Considering the Americanization of The UK and Europe as well, YES.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:41:53 AM

I was just in Europe for a month and it didn't seem Americanized to me. In fact I felt very far away from home in 99% of the 15 plus countries I visited. If another nation choses to be more like the US that's their choice. No one is forcing them. Blame them. Not America. I felt the most home in the UK but it was still very foreign.

Not sure why you always try to make your adoptive country the boogieman when it comes to this topic. If Square feels they need to appeal to the West(as much as I disagree that they do) that's their own folly and their own choice. Don't libel 300million of your fellow countrymen as being imperialist's just because you're pissed off at Square for making stupid decisions.

And please don't take this as me trying to pick a fight with you. If you or anyone else are going to shoehorn in criticism of the US into your rant about a video game company, I'm going to defend us if I feel I need to. I personally don't see how one has to do with the other. Japan is free to make their own decisions about the direction of their culture as well as Europe. Reserve accusations of imperialism for when it counts. Like when Japan tried to take over Asia and England tried to take over Ireland and did take over Scottland.

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:45:11 AM

Jaw, I won't debate this in this thread. All I will say is that as a native of the UK and Europe, I see the distorting effects of American culture everywhere. You may not, but then your perspective is utterly different from that of Europeans.

And, do not imagine that I am trying to shoehorn criticism of the US into any comments. I chose to live in this country, I love this country as much as the next person, if not more. It's not somehow anti-American to recognize the cultural power of the US. If you read my original post in this reply, I said very clearly that the cultural imperialism in "not even consciously sought". The impact of the US is disproportionate to it's economic size and population, that is a fact, but that impact, or influence is not consciously directed, but it is a fact.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/16/2011 11:48:29 AM

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Jawknee
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:53:49 AM

My point is these Europeans you speak of are free to chose. They make the choices that change their culture. We're not making them. As I said, I spent a month in Europe. I talked with a ton of people from all over the mainland as well as the UK. None of them seemed to present the kind of Anti-American attitude you claim they have. They loved it that we were from the states and could not hear enough about where we came from. Especially the one from poor more oppressed nations like the Czech Republic and Croatia.

You're using the wrong word then in describing this "not even consciously sought" imperialism.

Imperialism.

1.
the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.
2.
advocacy of imperial interests.
3.
an imperial system of government.
4.
imperial government.
5.
British . the policy of so uniting the separate parts of an empire with separate governments as to secure for certain purposes a single state.

Like it or not when it comes to world economics we're all in this together. Otherwise the fallout in nanny states like Greece and Italy wouldn't have a direct affect on our markets like they do.

Last edited by Jawknee on 11/16/2011 11:58:25 AM

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Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:39:05 AM

As a Canadian (Canada being a Commonwealth country), I want to add that it's mostly to our benefit that we are apart of that commonwealth. In 1867, we had our Confederation which officially made us our own country separate from Britain, but our relationship is still very strong. Over time, more provinces joined in.

Not arguing one way or the other here. Just saying....

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:44:56 AM
Reply

Who did you say? Square who? I'm sorry, I've never heard of this bunch, they must be some obscure has been company that screwed over their fans and abandoned what had worked for their previous several dozen games. But No, I don't know the name at all, it's almost like they're dead to me or something.

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Quincho
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:08:38 AM

Im pretty shure they died, I think I read it some where... or maybe It was a dream... good enough for me...

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Lotusflow3r
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 2:42:16 PM

Mentality = Correct.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:46:04 PM

Wada and Co killed the company, not Final Fantasy XIII.

Square's mentality and new direction killed the company, not FF XIII.

Adapting to mainstream formulas rather than evolving your own unique ones are what killed Square Enix, through Final Fantasy XIII.

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Zemus101
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:46:38 AM
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I'm a long time FF and RPG fan in general. However, I'll reserve my opinion on this until I finally get to play FF Versus. We'll see how it goes.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:51:55 AM

That game still exists?

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:54:33 AM

Only when they figure out how to get it on the 360, along with FFXIV of course.

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Zemus101
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:37:33 PM

Well... FFXV is far from existing. At least we've seen extensive gameplay of FFVsXIII

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Jawknee
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:54:31 AM
Reply

Complete bullsh!t. I hate this company.

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Quincho
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:07:14 AM

they are the worst!! I used to love FF, now it feels more like the new CoD than an acctual FF...

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:43:44 PM

my list used to be zelda and final fantasy fighting for top spot. now zelda wins hands down even with the motion controls crap in skyward sword. wheres final fantasy, its nowhere in sight. it might actually the first franchise that went from top spot of my must buy list to bargain bin game in one game entry.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:38:46 PM

If Wada and Co accepted their mistakes and told us they were going with FF classic game machanics again, FF XIII's mistakes would be forgiven.

But they haven't listened, they clearly don't care about the old fans. Their aim to tap the CoD audience has made their reputation worse than fans being upset with one game entry alone.

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Quincho
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:05:03 AM
Reply

way to go square Enix!!! you guys shure know how to destroy a perfect franchise!! makes me sooo angry! they are sooo dumb!! AAAARGGGG!

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Highlander
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:17:58 AM
Reply

You know, Square Enix strike me as a kind of Video Game version of Marie Antoinette. Gamers are loking for simple bread, and all She can say is "Let them eat cake." I want bread, you brain dead cow, not cake.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:36:02 PM

I want Final Fantasy, not an action RPG.

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AnonymousPoster
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:27:48 AM
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SE is dead creatively. They want the mainstream, they want the twitch gamers; let them have them. We have other options. Stop pining after the bloated corpse of what was once good in the past. It will only disappoint you.

Up with Level 5! Up with creativity and fun!

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 7:05:30 PM

...and Atlus.

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godsdream
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:29:03 AM
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We didn't move away. They ran away from us. Enough said.

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Cole
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:38:32 AM
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If I had a time machine I wpuld go back and stop myself from buying FFXIII. What's more, I would loan said device to any disgruntled FF fan who wanted to do the same. Then hopefully the game would tank in sales and SE would wake up and smell the coffee.

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Fabi
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:39:22 AM
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I used to love FF, but I look at it as something from my childhood that isn't made anymore. Simple as that. I don't care what they do, I most likely wont play any of them anyway. The last one I played was FFX and loved it.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:34:37 PM

I got FF XIII, played it for half an hour, never played it again. Too many better games came out around the same time.

I will pick up a Final Fantasy when they make a REAL Final Fantasy game, not some action RPG game unworthy of the Final Fantasy title.

Like Ben said, it was a good game, just not a good Final Fantasy.

The FF franchise has a level of expectation and quality that hasn't been seen since FF X (and FF XII which I actually really liked). Turn based combat, magic, controlling an entire party, not just a single character, big open worlds, levelling and ability unlocks and upgrades for all characters. Nothing is automated unless you choose it to be in the options menu.

That is why I loved Dragon Age Origins so much!! It gave you the choice to play it as a hardcore RPG or as an action game!

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Draguss
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:46:21 AM
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Like we didn't see this coming...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:50:14 AM
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I am SO gonna rant about this later.

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godsdream
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:54:06 AM

What do you mean?? I don't know if you are joking or if indeed you are a little pissed? rant about comments, or rant about if it really happens that the franchise turn even more "commercial"??

Last edited by godsdream on 11/16/2011 11:56:18 AM

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Jawknee
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:00:29 PM

Please do it for all of us. :)

Godsdream, hes talking about the article. Hes annoyed just like the rest of us that Square has decided to finally kid their longtime fans to the curb.

Last edited by Jawknee on 11/16/2011 12:01:13 PM

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Jawknee
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:06:55 PM

*kick

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:14:07 PM

Oh please do Ben, please do. I honestly believe we're alll pretty pissed off at this. Pretty sure we all have a rant in us right now.

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godsdream
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:14:31 PM

Oh ok, I'm relieved. Then I expect a full rant article like a review, explaining each point and such, and also the good(rant) the bad(rant) and the ugly(rant). Good.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:28:32 PM

I wanna rant. But what's the point if Square Enix won't listen?

I'm on the verge of just giving up on the Final Fantasy franchise altogether. They've really destroyed their reputation, not just with one game, but with executives and Wada continuously reassuring us that they are listening and will change FF into a more action-based title.

Who on Earth are they listening to?!?!?!

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Lotusflow3r
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:16:42 PM
Reply

Meanwhile Level 5 and independent developers are making games to fill the void or to keep the root alive and do new things too.

Ni No Kuni being the prime example of an RPG akin to a SquareSoft one and even looking better!

Don't ignore what others are doing better than Enix today folks.

I'm beginning to think some just like ranting about Enix rather than play the games they supposedly really want to see that are being released by others.....enough Enix headlines about it. Just move on, they aren't relevant to RPGs anymore.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 11/16/2011 12:19:43 PM

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:24:52 PM

Valkyria Chronicles, Xenoblade Chronicles, heck, even Demon's Souls were all superior RPG's to FF XIII.

I even prefer Dragon Age Origins and Skyrim over FF XIII. Those two games had more RPG elements in the first hour of playing than FF XIII did in its entire game!!!

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Lotusflow3r
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 7:14:59 PM

I agree.

The thing that bugs me though, is that some people moan about those SquareSoft mechanics i.e. world map, towns, mini games, secrets, turned based battling, eccentric creativity, emotional soundtrack etc, not being here anymore.

But when a company releases/announces just that, they ignore it or continue to rant about Enix.

As said above, Ni No Kuni is prime example. It is THE game the RPG fanatics have yearned for. How about celebrating that fact? (There are others too that are SquareSoft esq productions, but they are on other consoles i.e. Dragon Quest lX or The Last Story but nonetheless should be celebrated)
However, Ni No Kuni is getting considerable attention as of late, but it should be SquareSoft game attention standards seeing as though it's straight from the golden age. About 30mins of unbelievable game footage, and im talking UNBELIEVABLE footage of Ni No Kuni was released by Level 5 a few days ago, further proving it's a modern day golden age RPG, and it got few headlines. But mere comments from Enix get plenty.

If Ni No Kuni was Enix, it would, unfairly to Level 5, get unbelievable praise and hype and Enix would be hailed as kings of the game world again in an instant!

Less hate.
Move on.
...And celebrate.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 11/16/2011 7:23:30 PM

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Underdog15
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:27:58 PM
Reply

I posted this article on Facebook. My friend Brandon sent me some wonderful insight in a message. I'd like to share it with you. (I've also been trying to convince him to join this community... he'd be a great addition, as I'm sure you'll see in the following post:)

Brandon:
I thought the goal of any genuinely talented game developers was to make a game that stood out from the pack, not to follow a mold designed by other companies.

The first Playatation game I ever played was FF7. It left such a lasting impact on me, that I am essentially a ps "fanboy" because of it. It was different. I had Been playing Mario and Zelda that had whatever I played been in a similar vein, why would I change? Why would I play, what would essentially be the same game, somewhere else?

If SE wants to sell games, and think if they make a game that is similar to one that has already sold MILLIONS of copies, that market is tapped. I am so astounded at how a great company like SquareSoft can lose its mind because of a merger. SquareEnix must have obliterated the entire decision making staff of the old company when they merged because no way they would continue making so many terrible decisions.

Opportunity exists where a product is needed, not where there is already an overflow. If I want to make money selling my apples, I go to an orange orchard. I offer something different. I don't go an apple orchard and sell more of the same. Only an idiot would.

/Brandon/

I thought it was pretty insightful, anyways.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:30:28 PM

By the way, he's an incredibly accomplished businessman making fantastic money. He's been "top salesman" for 2 different companies for entire regions...

He has an idea how to sell stuff.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/16/2011 12:31:18 PM

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Clamedeus
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 1:03:46 PM

You should ask him to join, I enjoyed reading that. :D

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:20:09 PM

This Brandon guy sounds like a smart apple ( yes, pun intended, :) )

He is absolutely right though, why change your game to an action RPG and sell it to action audience? They've already experienced action!!

Make a hardcore RPG with turn-based elements and sell THAT to action players!!

The fact that FF was so different to games like CoD, Uncharted or Mass Effect was what made it so incredibly good. Then FF XIII dumbed down the RPG and went for more action, and destroyed their reputation while not gaining many CoD fans in the process.

Everyone is talking about Skyrim and MW3 right now, and both games could not be anymore different. That is what people want, different experiences, not the same experience across both games where both hold your hand throughout, both have automated battle sequences and both are more simplistic and dumbed down than the competition.

FF and CoD are becoming too similar, and I doubt the same number of CoD fans would buy FF VS XIII as the number of FF and Square fans of the past.

FF XIII sales were by name alone, simple brand recognition. I know this sounds mean, but I hope FF XIII-2 tanks in sales. It would be the greatest wake up call to SE in years.

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:02:15 AM

Perfect. I hope a developer like Level 5 catches on to the concept that your friend Brandon capitalized on. People have been saying for this entire gaming generation that we don't need japanese style games to Westernized. That market IS tapped and SE used to really stand out with something that we all used to love.

I've seen Ni No Kuni and the more I see , the more I fall in love with that game. Level 5 is doing a lot and its almost evident that JRPG fans are going to migrate towards them and devs that take the same route.

"If I want people to buy my apples I'm going to sell them at an orange stand not an apple stand. Only an idiot would do that".

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Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:49:31 AM

You know what game they -can- afford to take chances with?

Dragon Quest.

Plus, it's a franchise that is even more hardcore turn-based than Final Fantasy. So you REALLY can't change that one.

I'm willing to bet a console Dragon Quest of the same quality of Dragon Quest 8 would do well. Would be nice to see...

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Ultimate_Balla
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:43:06 PM
Reply

"Opportunity exists where a product is needed, not where there is already an overflow."

Daaaaaaaaaaamn. I'm jacking that motherfxxker right there!

Ben, you're in a high enough position to send this to someone @ SE, aren't you?

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:10:24 PM

All I heard out of that sentence was:

"Rather than cater to the millions of fans we've established, we want to cater to the new ADHD generation of CoD audiences, a market who have never played a Final Fantasy before"

Yeah... nice way to shoot yourself in the foot there SE.

BTW, I'm not buying FF XIII-2, and will wait for user reviews of Vs XIII before buying. I miss Squaresoft. :(

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johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 12:46:27 PM
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hmmm... how much does it take for squaresoft to buy themselves out from enix? i'm pretty sure their long time fans wouldnt mind contributing to the cost. then maybe they can get sony funding and start making games again. although some key squaresoft players have already gone and joined other game devs.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:06:18 PM

Any old Squaresoft workers at Monolith Software, or whatever it's called? Cos Xenoblade Chronicles was one of the best turn-based RPG's I've played in a long long time!!

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Warrior Poet
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:22:37 PM

Enix made games that were no less hardcore than squaresoft's - if anything, they were more. It was the change in management. I'm sure all the developers would like a change too ;P

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CrusaderForever
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 1:28:36 PM
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Turn based RPGs will always triumph over fast action oriented RPGs, because fast action oriented RGPs are dumb.

The only way to get SE to listen to all of us that prefer turn based RPGs is to not buy XIII-2. I ask all Final Fantasy fans this question, can you do this? Can you NOT buy XIII-2? If the answer is No then stop bitching about it. You as a consumer have all the power. If you continue to support SE and their "Main Stream Lemming Mentality" they will never change. We will then only be able to keep hope alive for HD remakes. So sad to see a great developer go the way of the DoDo.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:04:11 PM

Action RPG's are not dumb, sorry, but would you consider Mass Effect to be dumb? How about Elder Scrolls Skyrim? Is that dumb?

FF just isn't a game that needs an action RPG style, period!!

Quality turn-based RPG's have always been associated with the Final Fantasy brand, but now that SE have changed it to action RPG, fans of the FF franchise are up in arms about the series evolving past what it is best known for.

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CrusaderForever
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 6:33:47 PM

Yeah, that's what I was referring to. Final Fantasy being an action oriented RPG is dumb. Also, I was having fun with a quote from Spaceballs! :)
We have Diablo III there is no need for FF to be action oriented. It's just my opinion.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 7:41:27 PM

Ahhh.. cool.

Sorry, took your comment out of context. Sounded like you were saying all action RPG's were dumb compared to turn-based RPG's, but it was only in reference to the FF series.

Agreed, FF works best as a turn-based RPG, not an action one.

A bit like if Mass Effect went turn-based, the fans would be up in arms about it and wanting to burn down Bioware!! Developers should just stick with what works.

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gumbi
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 1:29:22 PM
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I am at a loss. A complete loss.

What do you suppose is more perilous to ignore Kitase? A new trend, or a longtime established fanbase?

SE has officially turned their back on the fans that made them.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 4:58:15 PM

So true.

Old school fans are being pushed aside in an attempt to make new fans with more action-styled RPG mechanics.

I can see why they want to evolve, turn-based was implemented due to limitations in hardware from the old NES days, but there are so many fans of turn-based strategy RPGs and SE are just completely shrugging them off!!!

Let the young'ns play their CoDs and action games. We old folks have THE MONEY! We would've spent it on FF installments but SE decided to alienate us for a share of CoD fans with NO MONEY instead.

My excitement for FF XIII-2 is practically non-existent, and I'm very skeptical about FF Vs XIII now. AT least FF's V, VI, VII, VIII and IX are on PSN now. Ahhhh... sweet sweet turn-based gameplay, how I missed you!!

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Warrior Poet
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:24:01 PM

The NES could totally handle an action RPG. Crystallis and Willow are good examples.

Squaresoft went with turn-based RPGs because they were fun :P

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Excelsior1
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 1:52:37 PM
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Is anybody really surprised to hear this?

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Jawknee
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 2:32:38 PM

I shouldn't be but I am...just a little. >=O

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 4:59:42 PM

What surprises me is how far SE has crashed and burned with their old fans, and that they STILL haven't woken up to the fact that everyone hates them now for going the action RPG route.

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Gordo
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 3:07:47 PM
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Well I loved Nier much more than I did FFXIII. It had an excellent story, brilliant characters, sublime soundtrack and good action. All it needed was a level of FF polish in the graphics and it could have been a contender...

I would play Nier over FFXIII any day.

Maybe SE thought the same!

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grayfox2k8
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 4:12:30 PM
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What about Tales of Xillia? That is action RPG and people love it.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 4:19:00 PM

It's SUPPOSED to have an action battle system, FF isn't.

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:10:29 AM

Like world said. Tales games have ALWAYS been ATB based Jrpgs. They have never drastically changed their formula.

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Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:52:34 AM

It's still random encounter... and in the Tales games, you can switch control of characters, you can pause the battle to issue commands, and more. It's still not a true action game.

Plus, like World says, it does what it's supposed to do.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 4:52:01 PM
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Great, so SE thought fans wanted more action in their RPG's. Yeah... that's why we didn't like FF XIII, not enough ACTION!!

Morons.

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Ludakriss
Monday, November 21, 2011 @ 9:33:07 AM

Might sound silly but...I cannot wait to be in those gangsta shoes of Noctis. Since I saw the Advent Chirlden it got into my head that to feel like you're able to re-enact the fighting scenes you kinda have to be able to move without restriction of, yes, the turn based combat. And yes I get that people probably don't mind it since it's a spin-off, not a direct, numbered sequel.

Vs13 intrigues me.

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Warrior Poet
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:25:33 PM
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S-E has actually been doing fairly well with everything other than Final Fantasy. I don't see why they insist on making these new types of games when they already have millions of fans who will buy a turn-based game. If they just wanted money they would probably do that...so what are they after? I've really got no idea.

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SuMtOnE
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:26:07 PM
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as a very LONG TIME fan ever since i brought my very first copy of Final Fantasy 6 on the SNES. and i also pre-order all the Final Fantasy on the Ps1 and so forth even all the SquarEnix other games, up until 13 came out... =( no more first day purchase for me.

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Snaaaake
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 5:35:43 PM
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Go ahead and regret it SE, reason why FFXIII sold so many copies was because FFXIII had a lot of hype and anticipation.

Don't see the same thing going on for FFXV.

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bentl78
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 8:30:03 PM
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I would have to disagree with ben here.
I do think in general gamers are changing...People always say "if it aint broken, dont change it.."
but when it isnt changed, reviews kill the games saying that the the game is "DATED"
People tend to dwell on the past... they say, if they make a new final fantasy just like FF7, it would be perfect... but seriously, if another game comes out exactly like how it is.. people will find faults to it right away, saying the mechanics arent up to today's standard.

There are still JRPGs that are turn based today. Look at White Knight Chronicles...where you need to grind a lot.. look at how the ratings were by the critics, and look at the sales figures in the west. Sqaurenix are trying to adapt, they are trying to sell their games. they want mass appeal. They want to sell 6 millions copies of their next FF iteration. They are not making the new FF for people in their 30s "only" who played their old games and are still playing (i for one falls in the group, i finished FF1,3,4,6,7,(played part of 8), (part of 9), finished 10, 10-2 and 13. so I understand the nostalgia part.. but not everyone who used to play games still play.. of course they need to try to attract new gamers.. perhaps in their late teens or early 20s who never play those games.
so I was ok with FF 13, i actually enjoyed it. Yes it was linear, and yes it didnt open up until the end. Yes, i wanted towns and yes i wanted a world map.. and yes I hated the stupid save points to buy stuff at.. i wanted a shop owner, but i gave it a chance and actually clocked out over 100 hours of it and platinum-ed it.

Just a piece of my mind..

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:14:50 AM

Some of us were in our teens when we were first introduced to Final Fantasy. There's nothing saying that younger gamers won't like the previous formula.

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Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 9:05:31 AM

I certainly loved WKC, but it isn't that 9+ game games like Dragon Quest, past FF's, and more have been. It didn't have a solid story, either. It's good, and it satisfies some old school jRPG'ers... but I have 3 jRPG playing friends that all avoided this title. It's not good enough to bring the pain, ya know?

As for me, my first FF I played was when I was about 9 or 10 or so. And I loved it. And I played them all through high school and university.

And as a youth worker, I gotta say, youth today really aren't that different than when I was growing up. They really aren't. Who's to say some teenager wouldn't like that turn-based mechanic?

The majority of people have NEVER liked it. But more than enough did. Even popular games like CoD now aren't purchased by EVERYONE. 20 million across over 100 million PS3's and Xbox's (and who knows how many PC's)?

That's still a minority. FF7 was a massive success, but sold 10 million or so. Dragon Quest 8 made decent money and had very good critical acclaim, but only sold around 6-8 million or so across 120 million PS2's.

My point is... trying to appeal to everyone is stupid. NO ONE has been able to appeal to everyone. Not a single game (except for maybe Super Mario which used to come with EVERY NES and SNES sold) has ever been able to sell to more than 50% of consoles out there... heck, I bet it's never been able to sell to over 20% of the systems out there!


So, seriously... in a market saturated with action games... make something that appeals to the niche you know is there. 5+ million is a great achievement... one that a traditional FF is sure to pull off.

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kokoro
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 9:11:16 PM
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I get, I get

because COD=Action

and COD=money

that mean Action=money.

that mean I put action.

I smart.

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Raze22
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 9:41:10 PM
Reply

Well square enix can kiss their "turn based ff fans" good bye unless they like action rpgs like KH. I wouldn't consider myself a ff fan of old or new, but I definitely... DEFINITELY love KH!
<-------- obvious KH fan

If ff15 is anything like or similar to KH. Then there is no doubt it is going to be a success. Square enix will most likely make a spin off series to cover the turned based rpg. Even if they don't then we still got ff tactics.

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___________
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 3:17:41 AM
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every time i see or hear the ff name it makes a bit of sick come up and reminds me of that crappy doom movie.
fine $E do whatever the %$#@ you want with FF, just get it over and done with so you can give us kingdom hearts 3.
and f*cking god help you if you screw that series up too!

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Raze22
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:04:49 PM

U going to get dream drop distance? After versus and Kingdom Hearts ddd come out then KH3 development will begin. Can't fing wait!

There is no way they can screw KH3 up unless they can't get the licensing to certain stuff. PERIOD! Trust me on this, the KH series won't experience any type of changes like the main ff series did. It is one ip that won't be influenced by the west. Matter of fact, despite being a Jap 3rd person action rpg, IT IS the west. Mostly due to the Disney theme of it. So it kind of has both worlds like a mixed baby.

So seriously there are no worries besides versus taking too damn long to develop and licensing. KH ddd should keep us busy until then.

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DeathOfChaos
Friday, November 18, 2011 @ 10:26:16 AM

I've been hoping a Toy Story world will come into play in Kingdom Hearts 3. With the graphics that the PS3 has to offer, running around as a plush Sora doll in stunning 1080p would just be amazing. What I'm hoping for most is that after Versus XIII gets out and finished, they'll use all that skill (and possibly the Crystal Tools Engine!) to develop Kingdom Hearts III faster with the same round about quality as Versus XIII. I love the quality of Kingdom Hearts II, best looking PS2 game in my opinion (especially Final Mix +), and to have that upgraded with the amazing quality the the PS3 is capable of? Probably the best game this generation, give or take Versus :p

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AnonymousPoster
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 6:59:05 AM
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I think these comments prove, beyond anything, that all originality and creativity are gone from Final Fantasy, if not Square Enix in general.

Creative people buck the trends, create their own and are rewarded. Lazy people follow what's popular and copy others.

All the problems of FF13 stemmed from their trying to copy Western sensibilities, and this just shows that they haven't learned their lesson. You can't make a good Western-style game if you're not a Western developer!! And Western developers have never made good Japanese-style games. You can't be what you are not. SE is not a Western studio, no matter how many of them they buy.

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DrRockso87
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:05:17 AM
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I still wonder if they ever remake Final Fantasy VII for the PS3/PS4/PSVita/whatever, would they change the battle system to something similar to Crisis Core, Kingdom Hearts, or Final Fantasy Versus XIII/Type-O as well?!

As much as I love action-RPGs (in some ways more than regular, turn-based), I think Square needs to calm down with trying to grab the West's attention and move toward a more traditional approach again. No more angsty characters, no more convoluted stories, no more crap they've been feeding us. Just hire someone to create a game that really shows what Final Fantasy is (or used to be). Matrix Software would be great (the team behind 'Final Fantasy: Four Heroes of Light').

They most likely won't though so whatever. I think I'm done with the series after Versus XIII anyway.

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Dan
Friday, November 18, 2011 @ 2:33:52 AM
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I don't mind Action RPG, but stop calling them Final Fantasy! Create a new IP!

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DeathOfChaos
Friday, November 18, 2011 @ 10:18:00 AM
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And so is the death of Final Fantasy...

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Omnipro
Sunday, November 20, 2011 @ 2:22:46 PM
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I think Square/Enix saw the success of Skyrim and thought why not try an open world realtime action RPG in a Final Fantasy universe.
If that is what they are thinking then I would be interested in playing it if they really take the time and investment to do it right.

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Ludakriss
Monday, November 21, 2011 @ 8:50:33 AM
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xD Someone in the comments mentioned that the recent FF is more like a COD game and it struck me.

Yesterday one of my brother's friends talked about Skyrim. He said "yeah it's like COD but in older times ain't it?" and my heart stopped for a minute. Because I am positive it will not come to that, even if SE is the creator.

I'm just concerned with all the talk of westernization of Japan and so forth. They start to follow Bethesda and...we're out of RPGs. I think.

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Ludakriss
Monday, November 21, 2011 @ 9:14:02 AM
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Oh and this is a sidenote but I just can't help myself. If you guys and girls view at all the comments these colorful people made it just reinforces the depth of RPGs as a genre.

All these people had something to share. Passionate, funny, Intelligent people, I think, reflect what kind of a game they pick up. I just like the idea of having to be a "thinking human" to play an RPG.

It's sad to think all this might go the way of the DODO.

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