PS3 News: Square Enix Remains Hell-Bent On Ruining Final Fantasy - PS3 News

Members Login: Register | Why sign up? | Forgot Password?

Square Enix Remains Hell-Bent On Ruining Final Fantasy

The news took some time to process. For someone who has been a die-hard Final Fantasy fan since the Super Nintendo days, something like that takes a while to sink in.

Thing is, we're all older now. We consider a lot of different factors before arriving at a conclusion.

We consider Square Enix's position in the flagging Japanese gaming market, as they - and most other Japanese developers - desperately attempt to cater to Western markets. We consider that nostalgia frequently plays a role and in fact, despite what we may think, old-school mechanics like turn-based combat really might lead to financial disaster. We consider the new crowd of gamers and what they want as opposed to what we of a different generation want.

But even after considering it from every possible angle, I'm still pissed. This just boggles the mind. Perhaps most infuriating is Kitase's comment about how action RPGs are a trend and "one you ignore you at your own peril." Goddamnit, the only reason it's a "trend" is because it's basically the only type of RPG that exists anymore! It's not like gamers have much of a choice. Sure, there are a few handheld and digital productions that utilize turn-based fighting but full-budget productions are few and far between. Atelier Totori: Adventurer of Arland is a definite rarity.

Fact: Gamers didn't start to abandon turn-based combat, game makers took it away.

And beyond that, why, why, why would a company completely ignore a large and vocal group of fans? How is that beneficial? Yes, we understand that you have to expand to survive; that you have to lure in new fans. But at the expense of those who would've followed you to the ends of the earth? Who bought just about anything with "Squaresoft" on the box in the original PlayStation generation? How can that possibly help? Maybe you just don't believe them when they say they'd love a classic turn-based Final Fantasy in a modern style. Maybe you think there aren't enough of them.

Okay. But I don't see a whole lot of supporters for your cause. I don't see an opposing group going, "no, action RPG is definitely the way to go for Final Fantasy." Show me one fan who says that. And I also think it's a bad idea to underestimate the younger generation and think they all want some "twitchiness" in every game they play. Square Enix, how on God's green earth do you know what they want? Based on what we've seen in the past, you really have no idea. So what is this? Blind groping to gather in as many faceless gamers as possible to help your bottom line?

While you're flailing about in the dark, millions - millions - of fans are begging you to come to your senses. Open your ears, use your eyes, listen. The backlash is impossible to miss. All I can think of now is the time when Square Enix asked, sorta vaguely, if fans really want a Final Fantasy VII remake and their Twitter page exploded. And what did they learn from that? Apparently nothing. Look, I think FFXIII-2 will be a great game; FFXIII was a great game. They are not great iterations in the legendary Final Fantasy series and there's a reason for that.

I would just love to be a fly on the wall in a Square Enix executive or development meeting. Because at this point, I'm starting to think a well-trained monkey could've made better decisions.

Tags: ffxiii2, final fantasy xiii-2, ffxv, final fantasy xv, square enix

11/16/2011 9:04:41 PM Ben Dutka

Put this on your webpage or blog:
Email this to a friend
Follow PSX Extreme on Twitter

Share on Twitter Share on Facebook Share on Google Share on MySpace Share on Delicious Share on Digg Share on Google Buzz Share via E-Mail Share via Tumblr Share via Posterous

Comments (90 posts)

Riku994
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 9:47:04 PM
Reply

Amen. Every word of this is true, I have no idea how they think the ideas they produce are good. The only reason Versus XIII get's away with being an Action RPG is because it isn't a MAIN installment. Next thing you know, Kingdom Hearts will be turn based and CoD will be an RTS... OK that one won't happen, but Square Enix just doesn't get it. I can't comprehend what happened during that merger that made Square go "hm...Let's change EVERYTHING!" Really, it makes NO sense.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

SoulController
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:22:15 PM

It makes perfect sense. They want that Call of Duty money. Meaning Multiplat +20 million in sales, faster, arcade like gameplay and flashy flashy flashy sprinkles on bullsh*t.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:12:20 PM
Reply

I like your point that not a single solitary Final Fantasy fan actually wants these changes. It's true, we just don't.

The only thing I can think of is that critics started to call the turn based style archaic and twitchy games in general have exploded in popularity.

The problem here is that SE has put together a 2+2=5 mentality out of the "evidence" at hand. The dots just don't connect so long as the people who want those games don't want those changes. SE is so far from knowing the market their games are for they might as well be in another dimension from us fans.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:15:04 AM

There is no reason they can't cater to both. Having the "option" to go action mode would be my version of 2+2=4. Don't change the core, but make it attractive to everyone.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:27:47 AM

funny you say that, they even added the option in Dissidia 2

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Oyashiro
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:14:49 PM
Reply

I would say that SE is run by people with the IQ of a mentally disabled potato. But I feel like that is to much of a insult... to the potato.

Agree with this comment 8 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Raze22
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:15:22 PM
Reply

If ff13-2 sells aren't good then I think they will change. FF13 sells were actually good, so they most likely got their heads in the air/clouds. It was their fastest selling game in the series and 3rd best selling game only behind ff7 (number 1) and ff10 with both having some age on ff13.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

johnld
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:27:59 PM

i doubt that, if they can ignore a website crashing response to an obvious question, then it just shows how in touch they are. they'll probably just set a low bar and rejoice if sales go over it. hell, this is basically content cut from the original ff13 release so it wont cost them as much to make.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

PasteNuggs
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:16:43 PM
Reply

I don't get SE. No matter how much they change do they really think there gonna pull in the casual gamer. Even if they make it fast and dumb it will still have a fantasy setting (or dear god I hope so) and the casual gamer will still not take to it.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

coverton341
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 11:23:10 AM

Next FF is set in a war torn middle eastern country. Main protagonist is a weathered, war-hardened, ex-Marine commander who lost his whole platoon to a IED. It will have 86 hours of ground-breaking FMV sequences that are interactive. The gameplay will consist of L1 scoping, R1 firing, R3 run mechanics, R2 grenade throwing, and a revolutionary addition for the final fantasy series X to jump. The levelling system will be streamlined and you will be awarded experience points based on kills and head shots. Your stats will be removed to make room for inventory management of your duffel bag.

Welcome to the future of Final Fantasy. Hope you enjoy the stay.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Kurosaki116
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:26:24 PM

To above Poster:
That iteration of Final Fantasy is very scary but I must say the way you descirbed may laugh very very hard.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

SoulController
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:33:38 PM
Reply

Like I've said numerous times, Square is dead to me. D-E-A-D. They dont care anymore guys and neither should you. They'll start caring when they have a couple more years of losing a sh*t ton of money.

Either we make a facebook page or website in a petition like manner and send it to these idiots everyday to wake them up, or we move on. Point, blank, period.

Im just as upset about this as all of you but as long as we keep complaining about it without some sort action, we just come off as crybaby's.

The COD twitchy gameplay is stupid popular because those games are all eye candy, easy to play and it has the my friends are all doing it social aspect to it. Square wants that money. Its a lot of friggin money. And their new leadership doesnt care about being an elite developer any longer, just a follower and a follower to those dollar's

Last edited by SoulController on 11/16/2011 10:35:35 PM

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Warrior Poet
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:51:50 PM
Reply

Man...imagine if Zelda suddenly went turn-based. People would be pretty mad at Nintendo, right? It just doesn't make very much sense to forsake what they're so well-known for. There hasn't been a turn-based Final Fantasy since FFX-2, though, so I'm not holding out too much hope. I mean...I don't care anymore.

I do still buy turn-based RPGs, but they're all on SNES and PS1. At this point, if you really want old-style games, just get an old game. It's cheaper than buying new games anyway. At the same time, it's a type of game that shouldn't stop being made.

The ATB system does have some serious problems (Too easy, lack of balance, useless spells, etc) but people LIKE it. It needs to stay!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

ZenChichiri
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:54:07 PM
Reply

Square has such potential still but they squander by ignoring their fans. Here is to hoping Atlus announces a new full on Shin Megami Tensei soon. A nice big budget turn based RPG fix would be great now. I do have Atelier Totori to play through, but umm, I have a feeling it's gonna be missing something epic, as much fun as I might have with the mechanics.

Last edited by ZenChichiri on 11/16/2011 10:56:07 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Russell Burrows
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 10:58:27 PM
Reply

Pauses from thinking about SKYRIM!:

Final Fluff?, Final?, Final? something?

Goes back to RPG heaven SKYRIM!!

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:09:22 AM

And this, I'm pretty sure, is the reasoning behind S-E possibly going ARPG for FF ;)

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 6:35:17 AM

@Lawless: lol! Man, that was one elegant countering.

Skyrim FTW though.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/17/2011 6:35:41 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

maxpontiac
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:16:42 AM

Yes, it is exactly why.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BigBoss4ever
Wednesday, November 16, 2011 @ 11:44:24 PM
Reply

I still say only one sentence, fire wada, who I believe the evil greedy mastermind behind SE's derail in recent years, and The problems are halfway solved; the other half will be solved by asking Sakaguchi, Nobuo, yasunori mitsuda to come back.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

main_event05
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 1:15:04 AM

You can tell it's that M$ greed cause when it (FF13) was still a PS3 exclusive they at least had cities, then it goes to Xbox and then the cities are gone.

"Screw Sony and the fans who made us what we are, lets get that Xbox money!!"
- Square Enix

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

dmiitrie
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 1:56:44 AM

@main_event: Although, there's little doubt that things we kept out of 13 to accommodate DVD restrictions, there's very little evidence that the larger issues that plague that game (and apparently new games) was influenced by the decision to go multiplat in any meaningful way.

All of the elements that longtime fans want to see return (ie. turn-based, control of all party members, deeper, more tactical combat, etc) can be found on the xbox in the form of Lost Odyssey. So, it's not like any of those things were changed because of multiplat issues.

It was, instead, deliberate design choice by Square-Enix. And though, I find it likely that those design choices and the decision to go multiplat were both made in the hopes of getting more widespread sales,I also believe that the two were independent decisions.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:58:28 AM
Reply

Screw Square. They have lost me as a fan. They insult those of us who made them a success every time they open their mouths with this nonsense.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

main_event05
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 1:10:17 AM
Reply

They have to have heard what was demand by fans cause it seems they are doing the complete opposite. Screw ups on the level they are on can only be intentional.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Looking Glass
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 1:33:28 AM
Reply

I suppose that it's rather fitting that you bring up Atelier Totori Ben. While current generation turn based games do exist (such as Atelier Rorona, Atelier Totori, Disgaea 3, and Disgaea 4, Hyperdimension Neptunia, and WKC 1 & 2), they have become much less common than they were in previous generations.

But if it's any consolation to you there are still developers out there who are intent on doing their own thing regardless of how many copies Call of Duty sells. For example when Gust was first established the most popular genres of game at the time were intense fighting games and large scale RPGs. They deliberately decided to go a different route.

Square-Enix decided to try and follow popular trends and they forgot who they were in the process. But there are others out there who have no problem with just being themselves, with Gust being one of the best examples.

Anyway, I should mention that Atelier Meruru has been greenlit for localization in the states. I suppose we can think of buying it and other games like it as our way of giving Square-Enix the finger.



Last edited by Looking Glass on 11/17/2011 1:36:14 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:30:50 AM

I'm enjoying Totori, it's not the kind of JRPG I crave but it is lots of fun so I'm interested in
Meruru

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Gordo
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 2:07:24 AM
Reply

Square Enix owns the IP for FF. They can do what they want with it. They don't owe the fans anything. They have highly educated business men and accountants running the show and the brutal truth is that the money aint in turned based rpgs anymore.

We probably shouldn't care. We should let it go! Move on...

People are voting with their wallets. Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3, Dragons Age Origins, Skyrim, Dead Island. Can't see many turn based rpgs in amongst those.

Niche is fine but it doesn't pay the bills. Games aren't made on the smell of an oily rag any more...

Agree with this comment 2 up, 11 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 2:34:39 AM

What a load of crap.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Looking Glass
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 2:50:47 AM

Sure SE owns the IP for FF and they are within their rights to do whatever they want with it. INCLUDING ruin it. But that is totally beside the point.

SE does owe the fans considering that the fans played a crucial role in making them what they are today.

And if these business people and accountants are so well educated then why the hell were they stupid enough to release FFXIV in the state that it was in? All that education didn't do them all that much good. A well educated idiot is still an idiot. They might do well to take a page from Sony's playbook and adopt a largely hands off approach to game development, or in other words lay off and let the artists do their jobs.

And there is money in turn-based RPGs, just maybe not the kind of money SE wants. And that's a big maybe seeing as how that seems to be open to debate considering that FFXIII was technically turn-based (ATB but still turn-based) and still sold millions of copies.

The main reason you can't see many turn-based RPGs among those is because there currently aren't that many turn-based RPGs out there in general and most of the ones that are are niche titles. And millions of people also voted for FFXIII with their wallets.

Niche does pay the bills, just ask the developers of niche games. But this isn't about paying the bills. This isn't about needing, it's about wanting. This is about SE being greedy.

And we shouldn't care? Should let it go?

AS IF!

Last edited by Looking Glass on 11/17/2011 2:55:13 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Gordo
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 4:11:05 AM

Well I admire your enthusiasm!

Good luck to you in this battle. Final Fantasy must be in your blood!

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:16:28 AM

@Gordo: You only discovered that *now*? lol

The guys around here not only has FF in their blood, it's in their heart, mind, soul, life AND death. They are nuts and I love this enthusiasm. The likes of you and me must just sit back and enjoy it for what it is. :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/17/2011 5:16:46 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Gordo
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:26:47 AM

Cheers. Yes, I also don't understand fully the fascination, but full dues to anyone that cares for a series like this!

Note to self: Final Fantasy is nearly a religion to many on this site! ;-)

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:54:37 AM

Jrpgs in general, and Uncharted. Those are the two holy cows you need to tread carefully around. Do that and you'll be fine. ;)


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/17/2011 5:56:27 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 6:56:30 AM

They didn't just make Final Fantasy. They used to make a TON of turn based RPG's. They used to be a game development behemoth... nay.... a bahamut!

Now they're just another developer in the mix... Except since all their changes from what they used to do... in a single year, their projected income dropped by 93%. <--- THAT... is inSANE.


So no, Gordo.... I disagree.... they do NOT have intelligent businessmen. Their stock and their worth continues to plummet.... and in one of the few industries in the world that is thriving more and more each day, no less!!! It seems rather elementary, to me, that to once again make the money you used to make... you should probably run your business the way you used to run it.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/17/2011 6:57:48 AM

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Looking Glass
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:20:14 AM

It's not so much Final Fantasy I'm loyal to as it is JRPGs in general. And like many other people I have been highly displeased with Square-Enix's more recent behavior.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Akuma07
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 4:23:05 PM

And the fact that FF sales have hit a downward slope since the new gameplay mechanics and settings were introduced, doesnt tell you something?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Looking Glass
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 7:00:20 PM

@Akuma07

Sorry but are you talking (figuratively of course) to Gordo or someone else? I'm only asking because I can't quite tell.

Last edited by Looking Glass on 11/17/2011 7:01:55 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Clamedeus
Friday, November 18, 2011 @ 7:09:46 AM

"Beamboom

@Gordo: You only discovered that *now*? lol

The guys around here not only has FF in their blood, it's in their heart, mind, soul, life AND death. They are nuts and I love this enthusiasm. The likes of you and me must just sit back and enjoy it for what it is. :)"

Right on the nail Beamyboom. Well said my friend.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 2:56:29 AM
Reply

Oh for God's sake!!!

Square Enix, you wanna know why CoD sells so well? I'll tell you, but there's nothing you can do to fit these into Final Fantasy:

1. It's a First Person Shooter!!! One of the easiest types of games to pick up and play next to 2D platformers. Great RPG's require time and strategy which is EXACTLY what you are straying away from!!

2. CoD has online multiplayer. Very popular with social gaming and casual players looking for a quick half hour round with some buddies.

3. CoD has very basic levelling elements, limited to guns and perks on the battlefield. DO NOT lower your RPG and levelling elements to the same standard as a First Person Shooter!!!

4. Final Fantasy has a big fanbase consisting of older players, well into the millions!!! There is no doubt that the influence of these fans will affect new fans, perhaps not at the same rate as CoD over the last 3 years, but FF is a long-term franchise, not a short yearly sprint like CoD!! Evolve your older games into something new and incredible!!! Take your PS1 RPG mechanics and bring them into the PS3 generation, don't completely abandon it!!!


If the next words out of Wada and Co's mouths aren't "We are sorry" or "We're bringing back the turn-based Final Fantasy you love so much" OR "The Final Fantasy VII or VIII remake is well underway and we're aiming for an early 2013 release", I'm thinking of giving up on the Final Fantasy franchise altogether!!!

Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 11/17/2011 2:59:06 AM

Agree with this comment 6 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

AnonymousPoster
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 3:03:08 AM
Reply

At this point, I don't care what SE does. People have been whining about this stuff for years, and it's not going to change anything. The only thing that works is voting with your wallet. We all bought FF13 expecting something which it was not. The sales data told SE that it was a success and we liked it. The only thing that will change their course is lack of sales. I'm not buying FF13-2, period. They wasted my time in the first game; I won't let them waste it again. There are far better options available from companies that actually give a damn about what their fans think.

At this point, I can't see myself buying any future Final Fantasy product. They have tarnished their brand so severely, and are so flagrantly ignoring everything their fans have to say, that I simply don't want to have anything further to do with them.

It's the same reason I can't see myself ever buying a Wii U. Nintendo is so out of touch with their fans, ignoring everything we say, acting like every half-assed idea their marketing department thinks up is a new wondrous miracle which we should all praise them for, and always taking the lazy easy cash path by abusing the hell out of their name-brand franchises to the detriment of everything else. Those are not people with which I want to do business.

There is enough stress in every day living. I don't want to tie my hopes up in companies who obviously don't care about their customers. I'll give my money to people who do.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Dancemachine55
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:17:40 AM

Agreed, not getting XIII-2 this time.

I just hope many people can follow suit to send SE a clear message that they are heading in the wrong direction.

Here's hoping these people have strong will power, a Final Fantasy release does funny things to old fans.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Rogueagent01
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 3:34:34 AM
Reply

After what SE did to the Front Mission series I wouldn't be suprised to see a Final Fantasy rockband style game from them.

They don't understand that the previous generations (PS2 & PS1) development was what many of us liked. They got to work with a PS3 and just assumed that since this thing can do so much more that they should focus their rather than with what they knew how to do. Many companies are doing this, forgetting how they use to make games and what made those fun. That is why I am a loyal Yakuza fan as they have mixed both newer tech with the older development style and made it work.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 3:36:47 AM
Reply

ive given up on wanting $E to stop trying to change FF.
playing XIII-2 at the expo last month totally killed my interest in the series.
$E, just get it over and done with so you can move on to KH3!
and god f*cking help you if you screw that up too!

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Akuma07
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 4:25:31 PM

KH3 will be a dark Skyrim style ARPG.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:22:35 AM
Reply

And here, we all thought Wada was the problem. Sure, he may be the biggest of the bigwigs, giving the ultimate stamp of approval, but he isn't really in a creative role, unless I miss my mark completely. It is the producers and directors of the games that are digging these graves. They think that they can please their fans by changing everything? When has that ever worked?

I mean, The Godfather didn't suddenly become an OTT action film. The Mummy didn't turn into some brilliantly conceived philosophical argument. The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy never become a soberingly serious series and Metal Gear Solid never cheapened itself to appeal to a twitchy audience, yet they all remained successes because they retained what made them so great and so memorable from the outset.

All I can say is that S-E may get more fans by altering FFXV more in the direction of Demon's Souls, or Dragon Age or Skyrim, but gaming will lose an icon in the process. The fans will know the truth, and Final Fantasy will die for them.

What worries me most about the whole affair is the possible ramifications of XIII-2 being placed against Versus in a sales comparison. People have been burnt by XIII, making them less likely to pick up its direct sequel, but it is far more akin to a turn-based game than Versus will. But Versus, from what I gather, is the more hotly anticipated game, and I feel it will sell better, thus vindicating the ideas put forth by Kitase, at least from a boardroom perspective.

Damn... Maybe we should just forgo the pair of them and everyone buy six copies of FFX HD...

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lawless SXE
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:29:40 AM

Duh... This fire burns. I mention The Godfather as a film series simply because I haven't yet read the novels. I'll get to it.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Beamboom
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 5:58:08 AM

There *is* a way of getting the edit button back, if you should need it. Just sayin' ;)

Last edited by Beamboom on 11/17/2011 5:58:20 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

aaronisbla
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 6:20:19 AM
Reply

I think im going to skip FFXIII-2. Unless ben's review of it says something along the lines of 'for those who wished they could get back the hours they wasted on FFXIII, get this game, you'll love it' i think i'll be good without it

......where's FF Versus XIII?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ninja_WafflesXD
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 7:08:21 AM
Reply

As much as I hate to say it, SE really is dead to me....which is sad to say because it used to be EASILY my number one favourite franchise ever.
Which is saying a lot considering I play almost ever genre of games, except for FPS.

While I wasn't completely disappointed with FF XIII, I definitely won't be picking up the sequel.
First time since I first started playing FF that I wasn't crazy over another installment.

Nothing much else I can say except for complete and utter regret at the road that SE has chosen.

But of course, like the sucker I am, I still have hope for FF Versus XIII and hopefully the production of KH3... :(

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Blaze101
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:33:12 AM

I agree with Ninja Waffles... I grew up playing old school final fantasy games, the first and most favorite being 7. I played through 7 and still do to this day. I played through 8 but never enjoyed it as much as 7. I played through 9 and enjoyed it thoroughly. Since X-2 I have given up.

I understand that there may be more money by creating games like XIII but imagine the amount of money they can make by releasing a new 7 for ps3 and PC. I understand the magnitude of a project like this believe me I am a developer myself, but with the amount of money SE has and man power, they can do it no worries.

SE need to listen to their fans. I personally would go out and buy a ps3 just for a remade 7. The money they are making now is good, but for people like myself who don't bother with any other releases, if a remake where to happen, they would make mountains more.

Just saiyan...

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

darxed
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:35:20 AM

If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone on that sucker list... I still have hope on the great devs that SE has, even though I lost all of It on the people running the company (I hate you Wada...)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

darxed
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:32:38 AM
Reply

I... I just don't get this... I mean they have the evidence that their core fan-base wants the old school gameplay back... I mean, It's not just the twitter thing, What's the biggest and fastest selling PSN title to date? Final Fantasy VII, and the second one? (not that sure about this one TBH) Final Fantasy VIII... I mean FFVII sold more than a million in PSN, even though people can play it on most smartphones nowadays... It's obvious they could make a lot of money remaking It... It's so obvious their fan-base likes the turn-based gameplay... Sure FFXIII sold well, but It didn't reach COD levels by a mile and they got a lot of backlash for It... Even fftards like me that still loved the game did so IN SPITE OF some of the poorer decisions in the gameplay, not BECAUSE OF it...

Sigh... I think It's time to move on... I'm so happy to have found the Persona series from Atlus... It's not the same, but at least it gives me all the turn based goodness I need.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lotusflow3r
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 9:04:17 AM
Reply

Who's Enix?

I'm seeing magical, golden age RPG productions elsewhere, i don't need to rant....again.....and again.....and again about this Enix.

*goes to look at the world map, towns, mini games, emotional cut scenes, turned based battle system, fantastic music, and FFVll's biggest competitor yet, Ni No Kuni*

*Also celebrates the companies that bring us the golden age and don't get a mention over the way mere comments from Enix do, such as Level 5 (consistently hailed as the new Soft by fans), Mistwalker (only Hironobu Sakaguchi's own studio), Tri-Ace, SideQuest Studios, Atlus among others*

Did i mention that key Squaresoft players have defected to Level 5 such as Nobuo Uematsu and Yasumi Matsuno? Or that the ultimate key player, Hironobu Sakaguchi, FF's creator, left to form another company? Why continue to care about business empire Enix?

I grew up with Squaresoft, not this Enix....I see Squaresoft being carried elsewhere, you should try looking for that too.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 11/17/2011 9:09:33 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

BigBoss4ever
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:34:05 PM

you said all what i want to say, two thumbs way up, a thousand credits on that man

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 9:05:53 AM
Reply

You know what game they -can- afford to take chances with?

Dragon Quest.

Plus, it's a franchise that is even more hardcore turn-based than Final Fantasy. So you REALLY can't change that one.

I'm willing to bet a console Dragon Quest of the same quality of Dragon Quest 8 would do well. Would be nice to see...

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Lotusflow3r
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 9:15:01 AM

Enix have never made a Dragon Quest. People who create from the heart did.

Level 5 aren't making the 10th installment, Enix are for the 1st time......and thus, it is now an MMORPG only on Wii.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 11/17/2011 9:15:50 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 9:38:36 AM

Enix was the original publisher of Dragon Warrior/Quest. With the merger, SquareEnix was poised well owning the 2 biggest jRPG behemoths in the world: Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior/Quest.

SquareEnix continues to own the franchise despite what developer they have create it. They have full power to dictate whether or not they are made for consoles or handhelds.

At the time of the merger, Enix was the healthier of the two companies. Spirits Within did a huge number on Squaresoft's worth. Why? It was a sci-fi shooter movie....... not very Final Fantasy'y...

note to Square: Everytime you have abandoned what FF is supposed to be about (Mystic Quest, Spirits Within) you have met immense failure. You'd think they'd have learned by now.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/17/2011 9:41:29 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 9:36:32 AM
Reply

Another comment from my friend Brandon:

Thinking from a business background, and having been involved with high level meetings in a Fortune 100 company, what has happened with SE is mind blowing. How the board of directors hasn't stepped in and done scores of firing is beyond me. A merger is supposed to create an overflow of great ideas and processes and success. How this merger has created a vacuum and sucked the success out of a formerly premier gaming company is Shocking.

People tell you what they want in a lot of ways. Sometimes with their wallet and sometimes with their voice, but they let you know, and any decent company will always listen to the voice over the wallet, because wallets make mistakes and can be mislead.

Businesses know this, why doesn't SE?

/Brandon/

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 9:45:52 AM
Reply

And from my friend Jesse (We're having a discussion on Facebook... they don't like joining comments sections):

The videogames industry is following the same path as hollywood and the music industry. The best selling music isn't the best music, it almost never is, what matters is that some music appeals to such a broad audience that sales are guaranteed. The same can be said for movies, and tv. We all know this, but traditionally in games, the best games were also the best sellers. This is changing. Call of duty is the glaring example and SE is altering is formula to accommodate the larger audience preferences (and sales indicate successfully). The tragedy is as we've all pointed out that its losing its core base, by ignoring every single directional hope we have for them. No remakes, no turn-based, no sandbox.

The problem for Square-Enix is that the games industry is still super-new. We don't know for sure that games can behave like movies and music. Traditionally videogamers were a very knowledgeable and particular about which games were worthy of their time. But with the broadening of the industry, now games which hold the largest appeal (and admittedly have some merit) become boss.

But I still wonder, because the professional critics do have enormous sway. Something like the game Catherine just couldn't have done anything without their support. These attitudes might lead S-E to its demise, because what they have done is betray their core constituency. Ryan Clements of IGN in particular is the biggest final fantasy fanboy I know and he's all but given up on it beyond XIII-2. For the first time, I'm hoping they will fail, survive, and go back to the fans for their next attempt. So I haven't given up on them yet, but they'll need some poor numbers to have their wake-up call.

P.S. - One thing they could do to appeal to the west is stop making all the boys so pretty. Admittedly, Japanese men have an obsession with hair and fashion but its doing nothing to help them here.

/jesse

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/17/2011 9:46:24 AM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:09:23 AM
Reply

As I have stated many times before, I don't think FFXIII was a mistake, If anything I think it was a step back in the right direction. Final Fantasy XII was just so drab, the gameplay, the story the characters it was all just so dull. XIII brought back characters with emotions, while they lacked depth and backstory (So did most of XII's btw) at least they had a strong sense of charisma. I don't want to ever see such cardboard cutouts from XII ever again.

The problem with XIII's story was that they hid it from us. all the details was put into the datalog files rather than been shown on screen in the cutscenes. I am hoping XIII-2 will be a chance to recover from this mistake and show what the XIII universe has to offer.

Now onto gameplay, Everyone binge whinged at XIII not having any towns to explore... sure a valid complaint. But look how, uniinteresting the towns were in XII. the city scapes all looked the same. I rarely spent time exploring theme because I was not interested. While I have been playing VIII recently each new location has it's one theme and style. If you went into Balamb Town with Zell the towns folk would interact with Zell specifically, I got no sense of presense like that in XII at all.

But the big advantage XIII has going for it is pace, XIII would frequently give you story updates, while all I remember from XII is traveling through landscapes and temples. XIII's story pacing was so direct I did not miss towns because I was always busy.

As for the combat, most people whine about the auto-battle tab in the menu. People who do so are lossing focus of XIII's paradigm system completely. It's more important to be in the best paradigm set for the right moment in battle than what specific attack you choose. later on yo uget a sense of what auto battle will do in what paradigm and choose to either go with it or ignore it. It personally never got in the way for me, infact I found myself using a more wide vareity for debuffs and buffs in XIII than in any other FF game. XII all i did was attack with bubble and haste and cure, thats all i needed through out the whole game. XIII's combat it not an action based RPG like people make out. An action RPG is like Nier or Fable, where you control 1 character using the buttons for actions not menus. I like Nier but it is not FF so if they get rid of the menu system in FFXV i will be deeply upset.

You look at XIII-2 already and you can see it going in this direction with it's quicktime events. This does concern me, because what S-E are trying to do is follow the industry's direction. Look at Lost Odyssey (Which I wish was on the PS3 - heck I just call it FFXII now.), it didn't even reach the greatest hits label here in the UK. That just shows that people are not interested in classic RPG's so to make games sell they have to conform to modern interest. Which at the moment is 1st shooters and 3rd person action games. I am not saying XIII is a perfect game, but the blacklash from the public must have hit S-E pretty hard. Sure some complaints are vaild, XIII does have it's faults but people IMO went too overboard on it.

I know FF is known for changing as it progresses but from 1 - 10 it kept to the traditional J-RPG route, XI & XII took the MMO route and it turned into a game which I would not class as FF. XIII IMO brought it back, with and interesting gameplay mechanic and people moaned. People seem far more optimistic about VSXIII, which is far, FAR more of an action RPG than XIII is (Similar controls to Kingdom Hearts from what I have gathered.) but people seem to like it and if it sells well, yes I reckon FFXV will be a complete action RPG like Nier or Fable.

With the PS3 coming to an ending (Or so many articles say...) I am hoping we'll get XV on the PS3 before the end, as the beauty of FF is that each title gives us a new world, characters and a story to follow, look at the way FF has been released within the last few years:
PS1 - VII, VIII, IX - 3 Numeral titles
PS2 - X (X-2), XII - 2 Numeral titles
PS3 - XIII, XIII-2 (vsXIII?)(XIV Online - invaild) 1 Numeral title.

If the PS3 is left with just XIII's world this gen I will be pretty disheartned. Sure vsXIII looks very different and its connection with XIII have yet to be properly revealed, but If we do not get XV this gen, XIII will be all we have really had which is sad.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:12:34 AM

You can't keep using your own opinion as fact. Just because you think FFXII was "dull" doesn't mean everyone else does. Here's a simple bottom line that completely negates your entire argument from the point of view of a role-playing fan:

FFXII was absolutely, decisively an RPG. FFXIII was NOT as "absolutely" or "decisively." And THAT'S the problem.

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:44:16 AM

XIII was more true to the classic style of RPG gaming than XII ever was. XII's MMO gameplay style was nothing like anything previously released in the series. Change is fine, But I felt XII's departure was far beyond what XIII did.

XIII'S Crystarium system to X's Sphere grid. The Paradigm's were similar to the Job or Dressphere system previously seen in FF's. XII had many similarities. While XII had the gambit system and the License Board... Also XIII's Eidolons Where heavily intergated back into the story, while in XII they pretty irrevelant, essentially a bonus feature.

Sure, XII ticked a box with the towns, but like I said before they we're just repetetive and most of the time served no perpose. I spent as much time in XII's towns as it did in XIII's where they actually had story events set in them (Palumpolum, Nautilus they were there.)

Agree with this comment 0 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:56:35 AM

The biggest departure is always in the gameplay, and the mere fact that we couldn't pause combat in FFXIII, and that we could only issue commands to one party member, made the game more of an action experience.

In FFXII, it was a classic RPG system that was hardly new and in fact, was very much like FFXIII (i.e., characters move in real-time), only WITH the RPG elements FFXIII didn't have.

The Crystarium and the Sphere Grid are similar, but you're completely ignoring the depth of the Licenses of FFXII, which was far more complex and changed how we played the game. The Gambits were also standard RPG fare, and this was watered down into the Paradigms, which had set parameters. We couldn't issue individual commands to our party members EVER. That's not an RPG.

Eidolons were completely useless in FFXIII. Completely. The only time one would ever use them later in the game was to give your party a chance to rest. It was like destroying the power of the legendary Summons in Final Fantasy, and it was depressing.

The towns in FFXII weren't repetitive in the slightest; they were massive and extremely well designed and detailed. Just because one wasn't floating on a cloud and another wasn't underground doesn't mean anything.

FFXIII wasn't "classic RPG" anything. The only "classic" part about it was the random encounters, and that's it. Everything else was just RPG Lite or watered-down for the sake of easier access. Period.

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 10:58:48 AM

"XIII was more true to the classic style of RPG gaming than XII ever was."

No it certainly was not. C'mon Ultima, just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true. You didn't like XII. We get it but it WAS STILL an RPG. Especially when compared to that craptastic XIII.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 11:43:11 AM

XII wasn't as turn-based as I would have liked, either, but I still loved it because it still had that extreme depth an rpg should have. It allowed for incredible tactics and ultimate customization. Each character can be made exactly how you want them. No one character has a cookie cutter result of how they can be used, and your strategy is your own.

XIII lacked that depth... I mean... if you want latent effects in XIII... you make everyone the same class.... and with only 6 to choose from (compared to V's 22 classes, for a comparison). And the strategy lies solely in timing with your paradigm shifts... that's it. That's the ONLY strategy... time your shifts right and you'll beat any enemy.

lame.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

brickcap
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:30:06 PM

I havent played 13 yet but from little i have learnt of lightning as a character(mainly through dissidia duodecim) I am willing to bet that game had a good story.I think that ff hasnot seen such a sophisticated protagonist as lightning in a long long time(maybe not after squall that is what 10 years).I love that about 13.Also I think that we should be a bit more easy on 13 it being an unlucky number and all!

I havent completed 12 ,so my comment may be moot,but I have found its gameplay to be bland(not the whole game it is shaping up to be pretty good)with the only thing that is keeping my interest being the liscense board.

I am of the opinion that S.E nailed the perfect battle system in FF V but they kind of drifted away.I am not averse to ARPG(I love my tails and kingdom hearts) its just that I feel that they havent even done the action part right

Last edited by brickcap on 11/17/2011 12:31:21 PM

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 11:34:26 AM
Reply

Sure, you could not pause for commands in XIII, but I wouldn't say that was a problem, can you even do that in XII if so I don't remember it.

The license board for XII was just restricting, you go to a shop and buy a weapon... Oh wait my character cannot use it because I dont have the license. That is just beyond tedious. At least in VIII & XIII you had to make your weapons out of items, which was actually quite fun. Sure the Crystarium had a limit but then look at IX, once you reach about level 60 the stats between 60-99 are very minute, theres no point or need to train to the max on that game. On XIII you really had to max out the crystarium if you wanted to do all the missions.

Eidolons weren't useless at all in XIII, Bahamut was key to beating down the adamantoise's. If I remember right, in XII all the Esper did was follow for a time limit and attack. In XIII you got to control them with many different chained attacks. It, once again was closer to the Aeons of X.

Sure the towns of XII were detailed, can't deny that, but there was absolutley nothing to do in them. a few shops here and there to buy weapons you cant use and then just pass on by.

My running time once I got the platinum on XIII was 110. I have yet to reach that number on any other game this gen. And not a second of it was a bore, it was a completely fulfilling experince, unlike XII which I completed the story on about 70-80 hours which felt like a complete drag.

If we're still talking facts over opinions denying XIII RPG status is silly. You complain about my personal defense on XIII, while most people on here attack XIII for personal reasons over fact.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 5 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 11:56:29 AM

Yes, you could choose between real time and stopped time in XII.

What's tedious about weapons is having to have a conductor followed by an item to increase it's experience... with no rhyme or reason to which items are best other than one gives you more value... whether that items makes sense to use on a particular item or not.

The license board was awesome.

I bet you I can find more RPG-like things in any FF than you can in FFXIII.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/17/2011 11:57:33 AM

Agree with this comment 4 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:22:14 PM

Ultima, I don't think you're familiar with RPGs at all. It sounds like the only ones you've ever played have been in the Final Fantasy franchise.

Not being able to equip a weapon due to class, level, or other reasons is typical role-playing. In truth, it's the type of hardcore element that ADDS more of a role-playing atmosphere to FFXII.

Everything you call "tedious" applies to the very definition of role-playing. Do you realize that? Not being able to pause the combat (as you can do in everything from White Knight to Skyrim) makes it nothing like an RPG and everything like any other action game out there. Yes, FFXIII had turn time but in reality, so do real-time RPGs; the turn-time is simply displayed in the exhibited animation and reaction times of your character.

If you have a party in ANY RPG, you can issue commands in some way, shape or form while in combat. Always. It's another gigantic element of strategic fighting with allies. Simply having set parameters for Paradigms is a way of bypassing that depth, of allowing non-RPG fans to go, "oh, I can do this." And when the leader dies it's over? That's the very definition of action and again, NO RPG I've ever played in 18 years (with a party system) utilized this ridiculous feature.

I've played upwards of 60 RPGs in my day. I know what role-playing is. FFXII is. FFXIII isn't. All hardcore role-playing fans will say exactly the same thing. You can call it opinion all you want, but I really don't think you have any idea what an "RPG" actually is.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/17/2011 12:23:07 PM

Agree with this comment 5 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 1:46:47 PM

Well not to big myself up too much... but I have played many ROG's too outside the Final Fantasy genre. From The Digital Devil Saga to Phantasy Star to Dark Cloud to Star Ocean. I have also tried more PC stratedgy RPG's like Diablo or Balders Gate, but they simply didn't interest me. I like my RPG to have high production value, cut scenes and to be character heavily character driven in story.

You say that in any RPG you issue commands, sure XII has the gambit system... But how often would you really switch character in battle. I played though the whole game as Balthier (Because he was the only character with any form of charisma.) The 'freedom' of XII is not really necessary.

As for not being able to pasue the combat... thats fine, I am playing Final Fantasy VIII at the moment and the games deafult setting is active. Can you imagine if they did pause the motion for the comman menu in XIII? Every time your command menu appears the animation would freeze, how awful would that look, let alone ruin the pace of the battle. Though I must agree, one thing that did bug me on XIII was the game ove screen at the death of the leader, which they have kept in XIII-2.

Nothing you have said has proved that Final Fantasy does not deserve the status of an RPG or a Final Fantasy.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Underdog15
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 2:00:51 PM

It would not have been awful at all to stop time, enter in the 4 or 5 attacks you want to use with your points, then allow it to go. That wouldnt have been bad at all.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

dmiitrie
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 2:44:57 PM

@Ultima: Have you tried Uncharted yet? It sounds exactly like the kind of rpg you like: Best production values I've seen, great cutscenes and characters, and it's very story focused. I think you'll enjoy it.

Seriously though, nothing that you like about rpgs has anything to do with the gameplay. Any genre can have those.

One of the things I like most about rpgs is that there's several different ways to play them. If you like to play 8 on Active or just use Balthier on 12 with everyone else Gambitted, that's cool. Have fun playing the way you like to play. However, I could also play 8 on Wait or turn all Gambits off on 12 and issue all commands individually. We both got to have fun.

My problem with 13 is that it forces me to play the game your way, a way I don't like, and that really pisses me off. I actually can imagine what 13 would be like if I got to pause it. I can also imagine what it would be like if I could issue commands to all of my party members and if it wouldn't be game over until all party members were dead. And funnily enough, everytime I imagine those things, I imagine a game I'd probably have fun with.

Last edited by dmiitrie on 11/17/2011 2:53:43 PM

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 3:02:02 PM

How awful would that look? Production values? Playing through all of FFXII without switching your character? REAL RPGs never interested you?

Well, it makes sense now. You just want more flash than substance, you want more action than role-playing, and you want everything to keep moving forward at a rapid linear pace. So you don't like role-playing.

...you could've just said that at the start.

Agree with this comment 3 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Vivi_Gamer
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 4:11:46 PM

What so, the none of the Final Fantasy games count as an RPG... But anyway, Square has always been known for it's high production value, even my friend who generally does not like squares games admires the presentation. There is nothing wrong with admiring the astehtic Square presents with Amano's art or Uematsu's scores. Many other RPG's lack such talent and it reall shows.

But the main reason I play Final Fantasy is for the storytelling. I like the controls and battle systems of most FF games, but it is all secondary to the story for me. Hence why I could not stand X-2 either, sure the battlesystem was pretty good but I could not except how they destroyed a noble character such as Yuna. But, If your going to use my perefence of Story>Gameplay against me, then that is pretty low on your behalf.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 4:33:10 PM

Considering that most fans wouldn't say the story is anything special in FFXIII, either, I still don't get why you think Square Enix is somehow headed in the right direction.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

dmiitrie
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 4:38:45 PM

@ultima: Have you noticed how you're just about the only person who's brought up stuff like 'production value' and 'story'? Have you taken a moment to wonder why that might be?

If you haven't, that's not a problem, I'll help you. It's probably because this entire conversation, as well as the one that prompted this editorial, is entirely about gameplay and mechanics.

Allow me to reiterate to make sure you get it: This entire conversation is about gameplay and mechanics.

Once more, just to make Polonius mad: This entire conversation is about gameplay and mechanics.

There, so with that in mind, perhaps you can understand better why so many of us are focusing on the gameplay of 13. The production values have never been in question. Many people, including Ben, I think, have praised the story. But none of those things are what we're talking about right now, and none of those things are why we're angry with Square-Enix. We're angry because we don't like the mechanics for 13. We're angry because 15 is apparently going to do exactly the opposite of what we want mechanically. And we're angry because the gameplay that we like and that we want is quite possibly never going to be in another game.

So while it's all well and good for you to like the story of 13 and to focus more on story than mechanics in general, when you enter into a conversation that is ENTIRELY ABOUT GAMEPLAY AND MECHANICS, don't expect a lot of sympathy.

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Raze22
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 6:53:55 PM

Okay I'm somewhat confused now from these conversations. So what genres are ff12 and ff13 considered to be? Or would we have to coin a term?

So ff12 is real time rpg and ff13 is rpg-lite? That is what I gathered so far. If so what is the difference between real time rpg and action rpg like kingdom hearts?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 7:14:15 PM

Coffeya: It isn't that complicated. FFXII is an RPG. FFXIII isn't. It's more of an action/RPG hybrid and even then, I've played action RPGs that are more role-playing than FFXIII.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Raze22
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:08:27 PM

so is it safe just to call ff13 a action-adventure because the main rpg elements are gone?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

brickcap
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 12:13:48 PM
Reply

Well I agree that ff x onwards S.E has chosen a path that has been severely critcised ,but there have been some good games that have come out despite there abandoning old turn based gameplay.The world ends with you on ds was an action rpg as was CCFF VII(Which by the way recieved 9.8 on psxextreme).

Also Tales games have been action rpgs all along.Now I am in no way suggesting that S.E should make rpgs action oriented but that they should make good rpgs.A lot of ARpgs from square havent been good atleast not as good as say ffv(my favourite) or fft.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

burnedknight
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 1:39:15 PM
Reply

I gotta say as a final fantasy fan everytime S.E opens their mouth it sickens me.I remember when i would buy a game just because their name was on it.

S.E has now lost a fan and is dead to me.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

bentl78
Thursday, November 17, 2011 @ 8:42:08 PM
Reply

Isnt XIII-versus already a action rpg?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

brickcap
Friday, November 18, 2011 @ 3:33:06 AM
Reply

Let us look at this issuse from a diffrent point of view.Most of us feel that game developers are artist and as an artist one would like to try out diffrent things and explore diffrent possibilities.Final Fantasy is S.E's flagship product but they wouldnt want every final fantasy game to have same battle system with the two games being diffrent only in the premise and the characters.Final fantasy 13 turned out as it did because S.E. tried to please everybody which is just not possible.

I ask you Ben,would be be happy reviewing Uncharted 2 or FFT every week for the rest of your life.It is not only about the satisfaction of gamers but also of the developers

Agree with this comment 2 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Kabuki
Sunday, November 20, 2011 @ 10:38:02 AM
Reply

I officially give up on SE. I'm not even going to bother anymore. It's just a waste of time.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Draguss
Sunday, November 20, 2011 @ 11:28:40 AM
Reply

I don't get it. Why do they think FF needs to change so much? Did someone jam the idea into their heads with a freaking jackhammer or are they just having a very long lapse of stupidity? I'm not even angry anymore, just sad...

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Omnipro
Sunday, November 20, 2011 @ 2:29:39 PM
Reply

I think Square/Enix saw the success of Skyrim and thought why not try an open world realtime action RPG in a Final Fantasy universe.
If that is what they are thinking then I would be interested in playing it if they really take the time and investment to do it right.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Ather
Sunday, November 20, 2011 @ 3:18:55 PM
Reply

It's the 21st business scheme. Force an option, or greatly favor na option, than proudly annoucne it's what people want, and you're happy to give it to them. eBay does this a lot. 90% of members just loved their new search. Because 90% of memebrs used it. Let's just ignore the fact they forced it on people early, and kept chnaging how to switch it back. Or that most people didn't even know it was an option. So, yeah, maybe 90% of members did use it (I still doubt that number). But it's not like those happy users chose to. They were forced to.

Why should Square be any different? Take away everything but Action RPGs, then tell the world it's what people want, because those are the games they're buying. let's ignore the fact there's no alternatives out there.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Jotun
Sunday, November 20, 2011 @ 5:47:42 PM
Reply

First off, I 100% agree with your points. I defend JRPGs constantly because people, namelly, devs, at some "decided" that they were no longer popular. Maybe it's market research, but I don't care. I even hate the temr JRPG. Back in the days before PS2 JRPGs were RPGs. There was no need to further break the genre down in sub-genres. But now since a japanese developed game gives everyone the impression it's bad just because it comes from the eastern hemisphere, we "need" this deviation.

The sad fact is this company is flat-lining financially after failures like FFXIV(at least so far) and they're going to try to break the 10 million copy mark with the one franchise they have that could.

A JRPG that was a best-seller in the 90's sold anywhere from 500k-1 million copies. In those days that was a huge chunk of the install base. But now with install bases over 40-50 million per console, that represents as little as 1% of the market. FFVII/VIII were traditional and sold close to 10 million copies each over their lifespan, but that was also over an extended period of time and in an era of the JRPG when PS1 was the leading console and we still ruled the market as gamers.

My point with all this is, they want to sell as many copies as possible, *not* please fans. Pleasing longtime fans means selling 1-2 million copies at release and making money in the longterm thanks to word of mouth. They need money *now*. They're simply aren't that many fans of JRPGs. We're mostly fans who grew up with them. Kids growing up these past two gens know little and care less about slow-paced, turn-based style games like this.

I'm not supporting SE, in fact I hate that money is the most important part for them now, but if I were in their business, I might just see it the same way when we just spent 50 million dollars developing a game that isn't even paying them dividends yet.

Last edited by Jotun on 11/20/2011 5:55:05 PM

Agree with this comment 1 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Liltman86
Tuesday, November 22, 2011 @ 8:59:40 AM
Reply

Finally I can comment on this site lol, I have being reading for about a year but could never log in due to many errors, made a new account and finally got in :)

Square need slapping over the head with a fish! My god it annoys me very much how they continue to ignore their loyal fan base and cater to fans who do not even care! (or not so much).

I do actually like action rpgs, but I want my final fantasy games how they have always being, I've liked every final fantasy I have played except 10-2, 13 was good but it had so many things wrong with it when it came to the "final fantasy" name. I was actually more excited for versus which is strange, maybes it's to do with that comment you gave above: "Fact: Gamers didn't start to abandon turn-based combat, game makers took it away."

Love that comment by the way, absolutely spot on! I can't help but think of playing old games again lately, I find myself really wanting to play Final Fantasy IX, it wasn't my favourite but I really have an urge. It's crazy to think I have a next gen console and all I want to do is play previous gen games...SIGH, give us some RPG games now, and proper ones! I am very excited for this game though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ysGqsLf2oA&feature=share - Any of you rpg fans like the look of it?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

a6m5
Tuesday, November 22, 2011 @ 11:29:39 PM
Reply

Not really a fan of the genre, but I really liked Enix's Dragon Quest franchise back when, and also the earlier Final Fantasy games. I guess it dates back to the FC/NES & SFC/SNES days.

Personally, I think SquareEnix(or whatever they are called today) should just go back to the 80's~90's style RPGs............ except with integration of online. I've never played it, but isn't World of Warcraft sort of like that?

Honestly, I don't even really play games anymore, but if they came out with old Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy, online, I'd seriously consider checking it out. Keep it 'lite', throw in epic adventures, beautiful map design, CGs, go from there?

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

SS4
Saturday, December 17, 2011 @ 3:17:04 PM
Reply

I dont mind action RPGs.

The problem isnt that they are making bad games but that they are using the Turn Base franchise name for non turn base games.

I understand that its all in the FF universe with familiar terms like some names, the summons etc...

The solution is simple: USE A DIFFERENT NAME FOR THE GAMES!!!!

It can be Final Fantasy something but the plain numbered FF should only be turn based so they should hurry up and come out with a different naming policy and the problem would be resolved imo.

Agree with this comment 0 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

Leave a Comment

Please login or register to leave a comment.

Our Poll

The PS4 exclusive(s) reveal in December will be...
MEGATON! Biggest thing evah!
Pretty great, but not mind-blowing.
Something decent but that's it.
A waste of hype.

Previous Poll Results