PS3 News: Microsoft Admits Sony Did A "Great Job" With HD Remakes - PS3 News

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Microsoft Admits Sony Did A "Great Job" With HD Remakes

It's no secret that high-definition remakes for the PlayStation 3 have turned out well. Shadow of the Colossus is only one example of a PS2 classic receiving an HD overhaul (it was bundled with the HD version of ICO), and the selection has grown considerably.

And you know, even Microsoft has to admit that Sony has done a good job "selling those games again." After all, that's what they're doing, right? They're taking existing games - existing old games - and turning them into new titles with fresh glossy veneers. Microsoft hasn't followed suit (although some will argue that it's simply because the 360 isn't a true HD machine), even if Halo fans wanted touched-up entries. Microsoft Studios corporate vice president Phil Spencer told Game Informer (as reported at GameZone):

"Sony's done a great job with looking at their back catalogue and selling those games again."

It isn't often you hear Microsoft paying Sony any sort of compliment, so we figured this was newsworthy and in a way, special. It's actually one element of this generation that often goes overlooked: the high-def remakes of PS2 classics for the PS3. We keep hoping for certain PS1 classics to receive the same treatment, but various developers have explained why this would be extremely difficult. So...no FFVII. Duh.

Tags: microsoft, sony, hd remakes, high definition remakes

1/24/2012 9:43:02 AM Ben Dutka

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Comments (107 posts)

CrusaderForever
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:22:06 AM
Reply

Well, once Microsoft is once again a software only developer there will be even more praise thrown at Sony! :)

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:50:52 AM

Microsoft will never abandon the console market. They want control of people's living rooms. That's the main reason they entered the console war in the first place. I would be thrilled if they did but it's just not going to happen.

I think both companies have done some things right this gen. Sony deserves praise for their software and MS deserves praise for starting this online craze on the consoles with XBOX LIVE. No doubt online play has propelled the gaming industry to unseen heights this gen. LIVE has been a big part of that.

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phudge_supreemz
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:22:29 AM
Reply

sounds like an underhanded sort of compliment to me

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:09:19 PM

But a misguided one since articles all over the net have headings of "Microsoft compliments Sony's HD remakes!"

Since most people don't actually read articles, most people see that they compliment Sony, but can't do a Halo remake. lol

Definitely a Microsoft misstep.

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big6
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:22:43 AM
Reply

Well, Microsoft has never been one to innovate. They just copy a winning formula and market the shit out of it to sell more than the company they copied from.

I expect no less from their future HD remakes.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:29:58 AM
Reply

Would somebody please explain to me why the 360 is not a true HD machine? Is that implying the PS3 is? Both machines have all kinds of sub HD games floating around on them and there have even been several PS3 multiplats that are rendered at lower resolutions than their 360 counterparts. GTA4, Red Ded Revolver, and Crysis 2 come to mind.

The 360 is capable of the same resolutions as the PS3 as far as I know but maybe I'm technically wrong in some way. Now, I have heard the argument that this is not a true HD gaming generation before in regards to both the PS3 and 360. It's usually an argument I have heard from PC elitist but I have never heard the 360 singled out.

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CrusaderForever
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:47:41 AM

I am not sure either. I do know there are older 360s floating around that do not have HDMI. They only use composite cables. Which is not HD. But the 360 HDMI models are HD. Correct me if I am wrong. Thanks

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AcHiLLiA
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:02:41 AM

u can forget that arguement that u heard from what a PC elitist said, PC is not a console game system. 360 is/was holding back what the PS3 is able to achieve with alot of games that should been alot better on the PS3.

Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 1/24/2012 11:05:48 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:04:21 AM

It's not true HD because only Blu-Ray is true high-definition. DVDs, no matter how you hook them up, regardless of hardware and cables, can never be full high-definition. HD-DVD was high-def, but those are dead.

Some can't tell a big difference between DVD hooked up with HDMI and Blu-Ray, but the difference is there. The 360 can play digital stuff in HD because it doesn't rely on the sub-HD DVD format, but that's it.

But quick Excelsior, find some other way to disparage the PS3. Can't go a week without doing it, so you know...don't stop now. 'rolling eyes'

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/24/2012 11:05:39 AM

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Cesar_ser_4
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:09:19 AM

"Technically" crusader forever, the old Xbox 360 used component cables to output HD resolution, which is not nearly as sweet as HDMI but still did the job. As to the whole 360 not being a true HD machine that might be because no one considers the use of DVDs as storage medium to be HD. Or, because most if not all 360 games are rendered at sub HD resolution.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:09:33 AM

@ben

I was asking an honest question. No need to be such a smart a$$. Notice how the other posters responded in a smart way and mature way without being snide and abrasive. Grow up. Roll eyes...

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/24/2012 11:12:31 AM

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Sogi_Otsa
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:10:54 AM

360 uses compressed video and audio. and video is enlarged into 720p or 1080p with a lot of games. the uncompressed video and audio produces higher quality thus allowing full HD.
i may be wrong but i have heard and seen that the base resolution is often 576p. including FF13 on 360, and video is enlarged losing quality even through HDMI.

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Cesar_ser_4
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:12:13 AM

Thats true Ben, but they're bot gaming consoles first and then BD/DVD player next. So the whole thing about the 360 not being a "true HD" console is debatable.

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CrusaderForever
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:12:32 AM

Thanks Ben! After reading your comments I slapped myself upside the head! DUHHH! Thanks for the info.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:23:34 AM

Okay I get Blu ray argument vs DVD as movie player. I just don't see how that applies to the gaming realm if both machines can render games at the same resolutions which as far as I know they can.
Quick, Ben!! Find a way to get one of your snide digs again!!! Rolls eyes again.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/24/2012 11:25:28 AM

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FullmetalX10
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:55:12 AM

To clear up y'all's full hd debate thing here, just watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MakQpMSKP7I&feature=relmfu

What he did(for test 2) was create a .jpeg image file of a 1920x1080 checkerboard with each pixel being black and then white accordingly, so it's one white pixel followed by one black pixel followed by one white pixel.
Now if the system can display true full hd it would display the image as is, one black, one white, etc.

The conditions he used in the test were standard, all the same, HDMI cables, same tv.
For the test he used a black xbox 360 elite and a phat ps3.
Now the ps3 showed the checkerboard as is, one pixel white, followed by one pixel black, followed by one pixel white, all over the 1920x1080 display.
When he showed the xbox 360 displaying the file it wasn't an image displaying pixels alternating black and white, it was four white pixels, surrounded on each side by grey pixels, leading to black pixels next to the grey pixels.

The conclusion which one can draw out of this test is that the xbox 360 cannot display a true full hd image, meaning the claims of native 1080p are actually upscaled images, close to full hd, but still, no cake :P

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Hynad
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 12:38:49 PM

@Ben Dukta, What you described applies to movies, not games...

The 360 is capable of the same in-game resolution as the PS3.

One would remember that games on PC are still being printed on DVDs, and the end results are games running at higher resolution than on the HD consoles... ¬_¬

So there you have it. 360's DVDs are capable of handling games at a resolution as high as the PS3s. And in fact, most multi-platform games are running at higher resolution on the PS3, sadly.

Fifa Street 3 and Sacred 2 Fallen Angel are 2 games on the 360 that disprove your belief.



Last edited by Hynad on 1/24/2012 12:42:38 PM

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Dustinwp
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 2:05:36 PM

@Hynad

Except the PC doesn't read directly from the disc like the Xbox360 does. The files are on the DVD disc, then unpacked and installed to the PC's HDD. I believe the files are compressed on the DVD disc and uncompressed by the PC during installation. The Xbox360 wouldn't have this luxury because of lack of HDD in some Xbox models.

I'm by no means an expert on the subject. But this is how I understand the process to be different from Xbox consoles and PCs.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 1/24/2012 2:11:39 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 2:54:46 PM

Hynad: It's not all about resolution. It doesn't begin and end there. It's how the data was first constructed and how it's delivered.

DVD is not high-definition. If you're using a DVD, you're not viewing high-definition. Period.

Excelsior: Still waiting on the day when ANYTHING positive about the PS3 comes out of your mouth.

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wolfsinner
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 3:48:44 PM

@Ben ,

I'm sorry Ben, but I must correct you here. What you're saying would apply to movies.
It being true HD or not has nothing to do with the storage in which the data is stored in.
What you're suggesting implies that digital versions of retail games are also not true HD.

HD is about resolution. The storage in which everything is stored in takes no part in the actual execution of a game. When you're playing the game, everything is loaded into memory and that's where the magic happens.
Blu-Ray is clearly superior to DVDs in storage capacity and transfer speed, but that's it.

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Shams
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 4:39:04 PM

@Wolfsinner

As Sogi_Otsa elaborated, although DVD-9 is HD capable, due to it's capacity (8.54 GB, and only 6.5 if we subtract data required for copy-right protection encryption code), texture and sound/music data often has to be compressed, resulting in loss of data.

Moreover, regardless of the storage media, as FullmetalX10 mentioned, the 360 upscales images, so even a true 1080p signal will get distorted as he proved with the footage of the 1080p tile image.

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wolfsinner
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 4:46:49 PM

@Shams
Compression resulting in loss of data is a consequence of storage capacity. You could still spread everything out on multiple discs (as it happens) and still get everything equally detailed on the platform, without loss of data.

My argument never said that compression does not happen, I was merely stating that it does not happen because "DVDs can't take it". It just happens because developers would rather keep everything neatly packed in a single disc.

The physical storage used has no impact whatsoever in the final quality of the product because it simply serves as a container of digital data.

Finally, I was addressing Ben's comments regarding Blu-Ray vs. DVD. Whether the 360 upscales or not has nothing to do with it.

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Shams
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 5:19:45 PM

Even if the you have multiple discs, as shown by FFxiii (3 discs) and Castlevania Lords of Shadow (2 discs) on the 360, data must be compressed, and textures, FMV, and sound end up losing quality.

But, yes, as FullmetalX10 mentioned, if we ignore capacity and compression issues of storage media, even then, the upscaling chip distorts 1080p signal like the 1080p tile image sample.

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wolfsinner
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 5:33:01 PM

@Shams
I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about physically storing the data. You seem to be talking about the 360's power to actually render that data.

It does not matter whether it's Blu-Ray or DVD, you can put everything you put into a Blu-Ray in multiple DVDs. Without compression. That's what I'm saying.
They merely serve as digital containers..

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wolfsinner
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 5:44:14 PM

@Shams
It is not false.
The reason why you install data to the hard drive is to increase loading speed. That's what loading screens are for, to load large chunks of data from the hard drive to memory.

I can assure you that everything a game immediately works with is located in memory. You never work with the Hard Drive directly, even less with the Blu-Ray disc (which is slower than a HDD). There are algorithms that work with caching, pipelining and several layers of virtual memory to ensure that everything is loaded almost flawlessly.

EDIT: A shame you deleted your comment.

Last edited by wolfsinner on 1/24/2012 5:44:48 PM

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Shams
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 5:49:41 PM

@Wolfsinner

I agree with you that DVD-9 isn't an absolute deal breaker. For example, in some cases, it actually is a benefit, as it has a higher disc read speed than Bluray reader in the ps3.

But to give you an idea why it hurts more than it helps, is let say, you spread a game over 3 discs or more, like in FFxiii. This still is an issue, because in order to have an open world, or a large one, it must redundantly run off each disc, or be installed, or require disc swapping every time you wish to navigate to an area not on the current disc. This leaves even less room for data. In other word, 12 GB split over 3 discs won't equal 4GB each. It may equal 5GB, 6GB, or even more.

In the case of installing game data entirely to an HD, which eliminates the overhead of disc storage media with exception of installation time, data must be decompressed. So these final digital files end up losing data.

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Shams
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 5:55:29 PM

Wolfsinner:

Consoles must run data off one of two places Disc Drive or Hard Drive. With 256MB to 512MB of Graphics and System RAM, no console runs a game entirely off of memory, when games are in the size of GB's.

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wolfsinner
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 6:07:40 PM

@Shams
You seem to believe that data burned to a DVD must be compressed. That is not true.
At a "binary level", those files stay digitally intact. There doesn't have to be any type of data loss. Yes, it's a pain having it spread over multiple discs, but that is not my point. My point is that it is possible without compression.
Obviously, installing to the HDD will increase loading speeds and make it less of a pain.

And yes, data must be stored in some other, slower, media. It is called persistent media, rather than volatile media. I obviously am not saying that the whole game must be loaded into memory, either.
But games do not run off of this media. It is too slow for that.
As I mentioned in my post, there are techniques that ensure that the required data is always loaded into memory (from this slower media) when it's needed. I would advise you to read it again.

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Temjin001
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 7:55:00 PM

Well, we all know that SEGA was the first to have "High Definition" graphics. The Genesis said it right on the console =p



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Shams
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:21:43 PM

@Wolfsinner

All console games run off persistent media (disc or hard drive) streamed into RAM. This much we agree on. So there are two potential bottlenecks: reading from persistent Media to RAM, and reading from RAM. Furthermore, due to 360 sku's not having hdd (hard drive disc) as a requirement, this is yet another bottleneck.

While it is certainly true not all games require data compression, you'd be surprised how many do. Dead Space 1 & 2 for example, required data compression, and therefore, while the ps3 version offered 7.1 Dolby surround sound, the 360 version didn't.

While this doesn't say much about HD versus non HD debate, I suggest you play Uncharted 3 and Gears 3. Just check out the difference in quality of the FMV. There's a world of a difference. The reason is the Gears 3 cutscenes are compressed data, and so even though the signal maybe 720p or even upscaled at 1080p, it is clearly low res. And if you wish to see a proper multiplatform comparison, check out the aforementioned titles FFxiii, or Castelvania Lords of Shadow.

My point is that while having DVD-9 is certainly not a deal breaker for supporting HD signal, it definitely is bottleneck, especially when one considers the limit on the number of discs (2 or 3) when they become cost prohibitive owing to MS fees on the publisher, and the complexity of spreading data for redundancy across multiple discs, whether that data is compressed or not.

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wolfsinner
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:07:11 PM

@Shams
They do not "run off persistent media". Their data is stored in persistent media. There is a big difference. The game data stored in a HDD or disc is worthless. It does nothing until it is loaded into memory.
That's the only real difference in performance between a DVD and a Blu-Ray.. How fast it transfers data to virtual memory.
The bottlenecks you are talking about (which are present in every computing system) have complex optimizations which I previously lightly mentioned and you apparently seem to ignore. You can trust me, it is what I do for a living.

But seriously, why even mention that? It has nothing to do in particular to DVDs..

The fact that HDDs aren't a requirement for the 360 is indeed limiting, but it is still not pertinent to my original discussion. The same goes for the rest of your post.

I'm not even sure if you know what my original argument was.

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firesoul453
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:47:03 PM

Woah! So many misconceptions!

fact is 360 is an HD machine in every definition but ps3 is better at it in every way I can think of

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Shams
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 4:59:43 AM

Wolfsinner:

My last paragraph summarized my point. DVD-9 is a bottleneck in HD console gaming (Not so much in PC gaming, as game data is entirely installed to HDD). This is why even Nintendo will offer bluray next gen, and very likely MS will (or come out with another proprietary HD disc format with larger capacity than DVD-9).

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Shams
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 5:08:48 AM

And your point, please correct me if I'm mistaken, was that it does not matter if ROM format is DVD-9 or Bluray. My counter to that is yes it does matter, and the next gen's chosen formats will prove that to you, if my imperfectly worded technical explanations haven't.

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wolfsinner
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 6:15:21 AM

@Shams
My original point was that Blu-Ray does not determine whether something is HD or not. It is simply a data container and, like Blu-Ray, DVDs require no compression whatsoever.

And well, it seems like there's no point in continuing with this argument. You seem to be pretty stubborn while you seem to lack the knowledge to actually argue over technical things.

Have fun buddy.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:16:32 PM

lol

HD is not defined exclusively by the resolution output.

How many games are made and compressed to a 720p or even lower 400-something p only to be rescaled and unpacked by the system's computing power to be scaled up to 720 or 1080?

Just because it is scaled up to 720 or 1080 doesn't make it HD. What about frame rate? What about the Hz? There is so much to be considered beyond the resolution.

DVD's cannot produce true HD. They can store compressed data that can be rescaled, but it cannot produce pure, unadulterated HD. That one singular hardware component makes it impossible. Technically, downloadable titles could produce HD quality on XBOX360, but how many can do that?!?!

The article isn't 100% correct in that downloadable titles could technically be true HD, but it isn't very wrong either.


The biggest problem, of course, is that the objective definitions of HD are full of grey areas. But it cannot be argued at ALL that the PS3 is far more capable of HD than the 360. By that, I mean, the PS3 has far more opportunity to provide a better HD experience. 360 has to crimp and compress and unpackage, etc. etc. It's actually pretty sloppy.

Imagine... if they had just accepted BluRay....


@Wolfsinner
Unfortunately, there is some truth to what others say. It's true a DVD could potentially offer an HD experience... but it would have to be very short and non-diverse to house it all. Nearly all 360 games contain 1080 or 720p games compressed to the 720 or 400-something resolution to be stretched back out later on. It works, for the most part, but it limits the ability for detail.

A poorly detailed game in 1080p, for example, doesn't necessarily mean an HD experience. The processing speed required to unpack and re-imagine the 1080p quality, reduces the processing power that could be spent in other places. As a result, although technically the 360 can do "HD" (a grey area), it cannot have the same potential as the PS3... not without superior specs.

The lack of an blu-ray drive definitely limits the 360's capabilities. It acts as a sort of funnel that sort of means... you can only go as fast as your slowest (most narrow) point.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/25/2012 1:21:05 PM

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wolfsinner
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 3:40:22 PM

@Underdog15
HD is defined exclusively by the resolution output. Period.
What makes something HD is the number of outputted vertical lines.
Whether software uses techniques to upscale resolution to a "HD one" has no weight whatsoever in its actual definition. Obviously, upscaled video should not be considered HD because in its raw form it is (usually) 480p, which would fall under the SD category.

In HD there are also scanning techniques to be taken into account, but these are resolution-independent and are implemented in hardware. Same goes for the Hz (fps).

And about the DVD story, I won't be repeating myself again, but you're wrong in most of what you said.

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Hynad
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 7:12:38 PM

So, taking into consideration what many people have said here, we all agree that the PS3 isn't much better than the 360 to create "true" HD games.

After all, even GT5 relies on pixelated (as in: sub HD) shadows and other alpha effects... *rolleyes*


Last edited by Hynad on 1/25/2012 7:13:28 PM

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Temjin001
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 7:34:04 PM

everyone's just gotta stop arguing with wolfsinner, he obviously knows what he's talking about. he says it all like an instruction manual, that's convincing enough to me =p

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wolfsinner
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 9:36:33 PM

@Hynad
Correct if we're talking about 720p.
The 360 can not produce native 1080p video. All it can do is upscale from native 720p to 1080p.

The PS3 can, in fact, produce native 1080p.

@Temjin001
Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but..
As a part of my Master's scholarship, I teach CS.
I'm used to talking like an instruction manual. :P

Last edited by wolfsinner on 1/25/2012 9:37:26 PM

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Hynad
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 11:27:52 PM

@wolfsinner

I know about videos.
In game though, there are games (on disc) that are native 1080p on the 360. I mentioned Fifa Street 3 and Sacred 2 Fallen Angel already.

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wolfsinner
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 11:35:03 PM

@Hynad
They are not native 1080p. It is not possible with the 360.

They are upscaled to 1080p.

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Hynad
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 12:15:27 AM

@wolfsinner

Well, sources say you are wrong.

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Hynad
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 12:15:36 AM



Last edited by Hynad on 1/26/2012 12:15:49 AM

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Temjin001
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 12:49:10 AM

My apologies, my =p is usaully an indicator of sarcasm, the scope of it was narrowed strictly to the instruction manual. And so while I did certainly imply a level of sarcasm, I do most certainly respect your input on this topic. As a student of CS myself, a junior, the venacular and terms being used by yourself were certainly ringing true with me.

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FoReVeR_0515
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 8:35:40 AM

@wolfsinner

I know exactly what you mean. I've run across people who don't really understand HD(visuals) and that it's referring to resolution, and has nothing to do with the media data is stored on. They just can't get it.

If it was configured to work in such a way, the same exact HD footage(and sound) could be played on a PS3 from a DVD as it does a Blu-Ray disc, and look identical. The only problem is, you wouldn't be able to fit a whole movie on the DVD, just not enough space.

It's the same with games, those are both just storage media. With Blu-Ray being the larger in capacity. The actual resolution the console puts out is a result of the console and data, not the storage media. Though how much you can fit on that media depends the capacity of that media. That's where Blu-Ray currently wins.

Last edited by FoReVeR_0515 on 1/26/2012 8:46:43 AM

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wolfsinner
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 4:06:40 PM

@Hynad
Please point me to credible and non-biased sources that contradict my statement. I'm sure you'll find none.
I will also gladly explain to you why it is so, but not through here. We've gone too off-topic.

@Temjin
I see. :)

@Gamer_Josh
Good post. That is indeed what I mean.

Last edited by wolfsinner on 1/26/2012 4:09:27 PM

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:51:35 AM
Reply

Good grief. I asked an honest question about HD gaming and I was accused of somehow "disparging" the PS3. Wow, is all I can say about.

Let me rephrase my question. Aren't both the 360 and PS3 capable of the same resolutions as gaming machines? No, I'm not trying to "disparage" the PS3 by asking that. I honestly don't know the answer in technical terms in regards to gaming. I was always told both machines were capable of the same resolutions when it comes to games but I admit I might be wrong in a technical way I'm unaware of. Now. I'm strictly speaking of both devices as gaming machines which is their primary purpose. I'm not talking about them as movie players.

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FullmetalX10
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:56:59 AM

In a reply to your previous comment I posted a link and an explanation between the full hd debates between the ps3 and 360, though it is now pending approval (because of the link of course), so look back at that in sometime for your answer.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 12:02:50 PM

I look forward to reading it. The whole movie player argument is weak in my view but I am open to debates when it comes to gaming. Thank you for responding in a mature way which is something the administrator of this site seems incaple of recently when it comes to me. Rolls eyes third time...

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/24/2012 12:15:12 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 3:01:18 PM

Excelsior: After weeks of taking personal digs at me (not so behind my back), you actually think I'm going to give you any respect whatsoever? You want a LIST of all the posts where you flat-out insult me and the entire site?

Stop pouting and stop sending me emails. I really don't give a sh** what you do; I've got several hundred posts of yours bashing the PS3 and Sony (most all sales-related) and never once - not ONCE - have you posted anything remotely positive about either the company or the machine.

If you'd like to explain how that's objective in any way, shape or form, fine. Otherwise, don't talk to me.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 4:29:06 PM

I started the personal digs after you got all yours in. I quit doing that by the way when you asked me to. I hope you noticed. Yes, it probably would be best if we did not talk to each other. On that subject I can completely agree. I do promise you will never see anything personal about you in the future from me period. I want to say something corny like if you are nice I will be nice. It sounds dumb but I do mean it.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 6:48:20 PM

I'll be waiting for the day you ever post a positive comment related to Sony or the PS3, because it hasn't happened yet.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 7:59:34 PM

Okay. Your wait is over Ben. Here is an example of something positive I have said before. I have said the PS3 has great exclusives and I even praised Sony for their software up at the top of this very thread. I've also said Sony has done a good job of turning the PS3 around before. Those things sound pretty positive to me.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 9:22:07 PM

You never do it without slipping a jab in. Never. But keep trying.

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:21:17 PM

Nope. That's the best I can do.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:28:27 PM

Answer:

Resolution is not the only measurable of what constitutes "HD".

Atelier Totori is 1080p... don't tell me that game performs the same way visually as Uncharted 3. Even if a DVD devotes space to 1080p output, it means sacrifices must be made elsewhere. The storage on a DVD simply does not allow for 1080p, high detail, complex programming, and more all at the same time. Even if every other stat of the 360 matched the PS3 (which it does, more or less, although it could be argued the engineering of those stats is better in one or the other), it is hampered by the DVD drive. More often than not, the high resolution values are compressed and extracted on the other end. It allows for high resolution, but the computing power used to do that is wasted. While it can do the same things the PS3 can do, it simply cannot do as much of them at the same time as the PS3.

For that reason, it's not entirely inaccurate to say it's not a true HD console, because it can't do everything that is categorized as "HD" all at once. Sound is another aspect of "HD" experience that never gets talked about. But I won't get into that.

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Excelsior1
Friday, January 27, 2012 @ 12:45:58 PM

After cooling off for a few days. I just want to say what Ben's big problem with me is that I have been critical of some the things Sony did at the start of this gen, For example the PS3's awful launch. I've also crtisized Sony for squandering away about half their market share this gen. The only other thing I have said is I wished Sony made the PS3 a little easier to work with.

That is the extent of my bashing on a supposed non fan site. Big time difference between being critical and "bashing". All those things did happen so it should be an issue on a non fansite anyways. I did not know it was requirment to say great things about Sony and the PS3 all the time. I just flat out refuse to change the way I post. Ben thinks I'm a Sony hater. He's flat wrong about that and they guy can be pretty damn mean and defensive of Sony on this non fansite. What a joke. Somebody could use some midol or something.

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kraygen
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 12:52:25 PM
Reply

Here's an explanation to the true HD question this entire article has turned into.

True HD requires uncompressed information, compressed files that are opened as needed require a subHD signal that can be enhanced to appear HD.

Blu-ray provides the required space so that when you receive your game, all the data can be put on the disk in uncompressed format.

Dvd's do not have enough room to do this, so a game on dvd comes with all the information compressed and your game console essentially unpacks the files as it needs them. This is why an install will improve game performance.

As for computer games being HD and being printed on dvd, this is because when you install a computer game, the dvd has all compressed files and your computer unpacks them and installs them uncompressed onto your hard drive.

It's not about movies, it's simply about compressed data. This is why downloaded games are able to be HD, because you're installing the entire game onto your hard drive and it can be done uncompressed.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:30:44 PM

HD isn't just about resolution, either. There are a bunch of other measurables to consider that are categorized by "HD".

Since "HD" has so many grey areas, (Is your tv a 60hz, 120hz, 240hz, or 600hz? for example) it may be more accurate to say PS3 is capable of a better HD experience. The idea of "True" HD is subjective, depending on your standards, and for that reason, the article is correct in what they say because it's an opinion that can be supported.

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Geobaldi
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:00:35 PM
Reply

In other news, I'm really happy to hear the rumor that Rocksteady Studios may be working on a TMNT game. Hopefully, this rumor comes out to be true.

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Karosso
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 2:30:00 PM

WHAT?! Dude this makes so much sense and at the same time is so out there... Can you imagine? That would be epic! Here is hopping it's true :)

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jimmyhandsome
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:05:36 PM
Reply

Well, Microsoft DID re-release an HD version of Halo: Combat Evovled last November. They were thinking of possibly re-releasing Halo 2 as well, if I remember correctly.

As far as the whole "not an HD console", I disagree. Obviously you can't watch Blu-ray discs on the 360, but the games are projected via an HDMI cable (assuming you have the new 360 model) and they look as good as what my PS3 does.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:24:34 PM

It's still not true HD until the native resolution of the image is 720p or higher. Just because the 360 takes 600p image and stretches it to 720p doesn't make it true HD. Many if not most games on Xbox are less than 720p native. A lot of multiplat PS3 games tend to be te same though most exclusives are at least 720p native, thus are true HD.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/24/2012 1:33:07 PM

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Hynad
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:28:11 PM

Many if not most of the PS3 games as well. *rolleyes

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:50:17 PM

hehe. A lot of eye rolling in this thread.

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jimmyhandsome
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 2:30:09 PM

@ Jawknee, that's true, most 360 games aren't in 720p or 1080p. I think we're arguing semantics here though.

But I won't roll my eyes !

Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 1/24/2012 2:32:39 PM

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Jawknee
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 4:30:19 PM

Actually hynad, most PS3 exclusives are at least 720p but you're free to disagree with facts if you like.

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Shams
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 5:09:24 PM

@Hynad

The only sub HD PS3 exclusives I know are Resistance 2 and Resistance 3 and MGS4. All others like the Uncharted 1-3, Killzone 2 and 3, R&C's (FTOL, QFB, ACIT, and All 4 One), LBP 1 & 2, Warhawk, Heavy Rain, Infamous 1 and InFamous 2, GOW3, Heavy Rain, Heavenly Sword are natively ran at 720p. They're even a few that run at 1080p variably like Wipeout HD/Fury, Ninja Gaiden Sigma 1 and 2, and GT5.

So, that's 23 HD exclusives, and 3 sub HD exclusives. Three is not "many", and certainly not "most".

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aaronisbla
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 7:12:05 PM

@hynad, jawknee even says a lot of ps3 multiplatform games come in at sub hd resolution. But as was pointed out, there haven't been many ps3 exclusives (which jawknee was getting at in his last sentence of his first response) that were sub hd...

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:33:30 PM

Hynad = owned

Feel free to debate the 360's status of being "true HD". But saying the PS3 is just as bad.... well.... that's just grasping at straws...

And friend.... they are all short.

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gumbi
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:23:02 PM
Reply

Kudos to MS for dishing praise where it is deserved.

For those of you who haven't picked up SotC HD yet; go do whatever you need to do to make $40 today, and buy it. It's worth it.

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CrusaderForever
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:55:39 PM

I like this post!! I would do it right now but cannot knowing KoA:R and TM will be out in a few weeks or more.

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frylock25
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:32:36 PM
Reply

speaking of hd remakes the jak and daxter hd collection comes out feb 7th

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:33:09 PM
Reply

Uhhhh, that was NOT a compliment, it was a dig. The only HD remake I'm really interested in is FFX.

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maxpontiac
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:51:49 PM
Reply

I keep waiting for Microsoft to admit outside of shooters (and Alan Wake), their exclusives suck.

Last edited by maxpontiac on 1/24/2012 1:55:52 PM

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 2:08:01 PM

Don't forget The Lost Odyssey. Hands down best JRPG of this gen.

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aaronisbla
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 7:14:22 PM

honestly in my opinion, there havent been many great must have jrpgs this gen. Lost is great though even if they were more jrpgs that i thought were worth checking out

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Rings0fUranus
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 11:47:56 PM

Surely you don't mean Viva Pinata?!

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Temjin001
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:23:29 AM

But Alan wake is a shooter, right?

Yeah, LO is good, how far r u Excelsior? I just destroyed the bald idiot's tank who wears white spandex pants. I just learned composite magic.

It would seem MS is choosing to leave that IP alone, though.
I miss the MS of last gen. The hardcore gamer emphasis they once had. Now it's KINECT this and sign up for Gold for $1 that (it's not a buck it's cheese on a trap... then SNAP!)

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:35:40 PM

Everyone makes a big deal about Lost Odyssey, but honestly, it's not that fantastic. It's the best of this gen only because there's been nothing great this gen. It's not a great feat to be the best of the worst performing genre of the generation.

It's only good because there hasn't been anything better within the genre, and is therefore, only great by comparison.

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Temjin001
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 4:33:49 PM

While I won't outright disagree with you, I do think it deserves better than the respect you suggest it deserves, Underdog. The game's play is very well designed, no matter the year it's played, following strictly after the format of a turn-based jRPG stylized similarly to Squaresoft;s PSX RPG greats. Something it appeared to have been rated down for by critics. It is, afterall, a complete aping of the Final Fantasy franchise under MS's umbrella. Everything from it's art design, which adopts a familiar eastern design, yet, is careful not to lean to heavily on anime body proportions or familiar athestetic appeals of said style, to the pseudo-sci-fi fantasy theme, to the music that paces and orchestrates itself after the manner of a FF. For all intents and purposes, the game could've been accepted as a Final Fantasy if marketed as such; though, I will say, production value wise it's not quite as strong as a general FF release.
So while I have no doubt it's recognition would be lesser today if it didn't stand by itself as a faithful reproduction of the genre it's representing, I do think it's an experience deserving of anyone's time who has a fondness for the genre and specificity of it's offerings.

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Oyashiro
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 1:53:14 PM
Reply

I read that interview, I think he meant that more of a insult.

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BigBoss4ever
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 2:13:05 PM
Reply

ICO/SOTC and MGS HD collection are the two best HD remaster games released last year, absolutely awesome and exciting to play the games in HD forms...

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Excelsior1
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 4:37:37 PM

@ vallarta

Don't take this the wrong way but I don't need or want anything like that. The less attention on me the better. I'm just here to interact with PSXE's great community.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 1:38:55 PM

Vote for VallartaBoy as most likely to try to willingly create a rift in an otherwise healthy community!


Geeze, I'm glad Excelsior had enough sense to shut that down.

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PMartinNL
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 4:26:19 PM
Reply

Just an FYI, older 360 models with no HDMI is still capable of receiving an HD signal at 1080p via component. Fact

Although XBOX 360 games are on a dual layer dvd disc, it is still possible for 1080p. It is completely immature or completely uninformative to even say that the 360 is not true HD.

Just compare games like NHL, FIFA, NBA, and other multi plat games, there is little to no difference between both the PS3 and xbox 360. Too childish and comments like this is a very fan boyish thing to say.

Last edited by PMartinNL on 1/24/2012 4:27:11 PM

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 3:12:43 PM

Resolution is not the sole defining fact of HD.

A subjective argument like "True" HD still has merit in the context of native resolutions. THAT is something XBOX has yet to deliver on.

And finally, a multiplat is not grounds for your point. If I play the original Duke Nukem on my high end gaming rig, it's still going to look like the shitty original Duke Nukem.

Come back when you show me the same number of XBOX exclusives that boast a NATIVE resolution of 720p or higher to the PS3's exclusives.

I'll give you a hint....

PS3 is ahead in that count by over 20.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/25/2012 3:14:37 PM

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Hynad
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 7:03:33 PM

Underdog, you have no idea what you are talking about and spout biased fanboyish misinformation.

What you tried to claim earlier is completely destroyed when you take into account the data bandwidth differences between both console (i.e. mostly the same).

The PS3 struggles just the same as the 360, making it unrealistic to expect 1080p graphics this gen by either consoles.

Seriously, the amount of people here grasping at straws (to take your own words)to make the PS3 appear like it's a gen in front of the 360 is through the roof.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 10:05:34 PM

Hynad, you're the one who sounds like a fanboy who is too arrogant to admit a single solitary point. You should drop to attitude and play nice.

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Hynad
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 1:19:22 AM

Of course you'd say that. The only thing allowed here it would seem is to put those opaque black gasses and do nothing but praise the PS3. No matter how much misinformation is spit at every corners...

The PS3 is still my favorite console, I don't even have a 360 anymore as it bore me to death. But you won,t see me claim things that just aren't true just to please the overly biased crowd here.

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Snaaaake
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 5:23:41 PM
Reply

...........
I'm seeing a bit of war here and the article is Microsoft praising Sony.

Seriously?

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gumbi
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 8:25:52 PM

Exactly, wtf? I expected this article to invoke hoorah's.

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PAKINIPS
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 5:07:28 PM

HOORAH

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tes37
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 6:11:53 PM
Reply

All the eye rolling reminds me of something else that needs rolling... but I won't say what.

Microsoft should take note of the great job Sony is doing with new releases too.

The 360 is not an HD machine. Ben is absolutely correct regardless of movie playing capabilities.



Last edited by tes37 on 1/24/2012 6:16:21 PM

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Robochic
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 6:55:34 PM
Reply

Holy crap someone print this and frame it above their PS3 LOL.

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Temjin001
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 7:49:25 PM
Reply

reading further...
"I [don't] want to get into a world where people felt like I was just trying to sell them things that they've already played."

Yeah, that admition of doing a great job is received with a comment to undermine the purpose of doing it.

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Snaaaake
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 9:09:36 PM
Reply

Wait, so Halo Anniversary wasn't a HD remake?

Last edited by Snaaaake on 1/24/2012 9:12:37 PM

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Temjin001
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 9:15:13 PM

While not meeting the 720 bar to earn the arbitrary HD resolution standard, Halo Remake was the best remake I can think of for this generation of remakes. Speaking strictly in terms of visual upgrade. No other remakes I can think of this gen brought themselves up to the same standard as the elite looking current gen games on the same console. Halo CE Ann. looks every bit as pretty as the best Halo games made exclusively for 360. Whereas, something like GoW HD Collection doesn't look nearly as good as GoW3.

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Shams
Tuesday, January 24, 2012 @ 10:53:40 PM

You have to consider Sensei Temjin the time spent in developement. Bluepoint took 2 months to push the GOW collection. They are simply the ps2 originals in their original C code running off the ps3 architecture. 343 took over a year for Halo, and reskinned the visuals, texture work, and reworked the AI. Halo CE Anniversary is effectively a full blown 360 title if I'm not mistaken.

But I do feel it is a good counter to Phil Spencer's sarcasm. There certainly are classics worth remaking, and worth replaying.

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___________
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 3:34:08 AM

thats exactly what i wish $ony would do with their remakes.
they look decent, but my socks were blown off when i played the halo anniversary!
oh and to answer the question phill does not count halo because it was in celebration of halos anniversary.

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___________
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 3:29:17 AM
Reply

ahhh, why did you cut off half the quote?
rest of it was "However, I don't want to get into a world where people felt like I was just trying to sell them things that they’ve already played.”

one thing hes forgetting though, THATS WHAT THE FANS WANT!
he thinks were going to get the sh*ts because there reselling us the same game, but its not really the same game because its upgraded in HD and trophies and such.
im much more excited for the DMC HD collection then DMC ninja theory are working on!
ill take a HD remake of old classic games, then new iterations to that series any day of the week!
tis why i was so excited when i heard vice city and GTA3 might be getting the same treatment.
f*ck GTAV, give me the HD remakes over that any day of the week!

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Kevin5
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 5:50:43 AM
Reply

Without sounding too much like a bigot, as a 360 game player myself how about MS start delivering decent exclusives instead of grass blade thin compliments which will get them nowhere?

If they think HD remakes are a great idea, then start HD'ing up some of their old Xbox titles. Hell, i'd play a souped up Halo 2 or DOA Ultimate again if i had the chance.

SONY know they're doing well with these HD remakes, they don't need motherly compliments from a rival that is slowly going down the crapper with it's new disease known as Kinect.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, January 25, 2012 @ 3:11:28 PM

Excellent post.

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xnonsuchx
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 3:45:26 AM
Reply

While no 360 fan, I have to say that the argument that lack of Blu-ray capabilities means the 360 isn't real HD is kinda bogus. They are both primarily GAMING systems, so only the video output from GAMES (not including video scenes played from disc) should be considered in the argument. Has anyone actually compared any of the native 1080p games on both systems (e.g. FIFA Street 3, Virtua Tennis 3)? That might be kinda hard, though, since there's anti-aliasing on the 360 versions and may not have any on the PS3 versions.

Anyway, since there's only a few native 1080p games on both system, it could be argued that neither is true HD if you really feel like nit-picking about 95-98% of games not able to use it at an acceptable performance.

Last edited by xnonsuchx on 1/26/2012 3:46:04 AM

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DjStiv3
Thursday, January 26, 2012 @ 3:10:08 PM
Reply

microsoft sounds a bit bogus like theyre talking shit but muttering it under theyre breath
"selling those games again"?? are you implying thers not enough to choose from otherwise?
wow i feel like throwing my 360 into a lake

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Palpatations911
Saturday, January 28, 2012 @ 5:34:59 PM
Reply

Every version of the xbox 360 is HD Compatible. The non HDMI Xbox 360 can still go to 1080i. The HDMI version such as the Xbox 360 elite can go to 1080p.

Every decent game on both platforms is rendered at no higher than 720P. Mass Effect 2, for example, is rendered at 720P on both platforms. The only time you generally see either of the two systems in 1080P is when you're at the dashboard or watching a movie.

Just because the xbox 360 can't read a large capacity media such as Blu-Ray, doesn't mean it can't display the video. How else would services such as Vudu be able to stream a movie to the xbox 360 in full HD, 1080P, with no difference in quality from the Playstation 3 if the Xbox 360 isn't a "True HD Machine"?




Last edited by Palpatations911 on 1/28/2012 5:35:57 PM

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