ME3 Producer: "If The Fans Only Knew What We Were Planning..."
Mass Effect 3So if you haven't noticed, the Mass Effect fans are none too happy. There are a few issues of major contention: first, the DLC issue (which has gotten downright ugly), and second, the endings, none of which people seem to like.
Now, there's no doubt the game is amazing. Most every critic and in truth, even most of the complainers, will tell you this. But the endings are really getting people riled up and series producer Mike Gamble has had a rough time on Twitter. The fans have been pretty relentless over the past 48 hours or so, and Gamble just recently updated with:
"Hardest. Day. Ever. Seriously, if you people knew all the stuff we are planning…you’d, we’ll – hold onto your copy of [Mass Effect 3] forever."
But that isn't smoothing things over, as the franchise followers continue to heap criticism atop the game's multiple endings. Many say the endings don't differ enough from each other, while others say player choices don't matter enough. One particularly irate fan, referring to the DLC in question, said- "You know, the one where you charge people $10 for a proper end to your plotless game." ...ouch.
Well, annoyed fans can be tough to deal with. And you know, after completing FFXIII-2, I sort of understand where they're coming from... At any rate, I really think we should at least commend BioWare on producing one hell of a game; I'm not even a fan of the series, and I thought ME3 was pretty damn incredible. Can't we at least be optimists about this? ...please?
Related Game(s): Mass Effect 3
Tags: mass effect 3, me3, mass effect 3 endings, mass effect 3 fans, bioware
3/9/2012 9:09:35 PM Ben Dutka
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Comments (57 posts)
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 10:08:16 PM
10 up, 0 down
maxpontiac
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 10:33:50 PM
Either I am getting old or does it seem like people are more ruthless now?
6 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 11:03:05 PM
7 up, 2 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 11:25:10 PM
On the flip side, ME3 absolutely does deserve 9+ scores, as it's getting. So I think there's more unjust whining in this case.
6 up, 1 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 12:38:55 AM
7 up, 2 down
TheAgingHipster
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 7:21:01 AM
Admittedly, I haven't gotten to the ending yet, but unless the Reapers turn out to be artificially intelligent car salesman on an intergalactic mission to give you the best interest rates ever, I can't imagine an ending so horrible that it would ruin what has been the most emotionally moving video game I've ever played.
5 up, 1 down
xenris
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 10:15:54 AM
If the fans only knew what we had in store? Really? I know exactly what is in store, and its DLC that retcons the beatiful universe they set up in number 1 and adds to the micro transaction multiplayer.
The reason why people are upset is because each game has essentially been a reboot, where "you dont need to play the others to know whats going on" That bothers people because they use the star wars analogy of, would you really tell people to just go and see episode 6? They practically spit on the fans who supported ME1 and told people to keep an eye on the franchise. The fans make a game do well when its an original IP and Bioware treats their fans poorly. The Prothean DLC is a load of garbage, if it wasn't going to be ready why not just give it to people for free when it was done before launch? Not to mention they retcon the design of the prothean to look basically like a collector which were said to be mutated beyond recognition prothean DNA. If you played ME1 you get an idea what they looked like at the Prothean ruins on Ilos.
It doesn't feel polished especially on the PS3 which has been giving me huge frame rate issues. I just don't like when some games are allowed to get away with this and others get burned for it.
I didn't like ME3 as much as ME1, but I liked it more than ME2.
I was actually really disappointed with the overall plot but the ride to the end was fun enough.
4 up, 3 down
Killa Tequilla
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 9:48:33 PM
Reply
Last edited by Killa Tequilla on 3/9/2012 9:49:30 PM
1 up, 1 down
Douchebaguette
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 9:49:46 PM
Reply
2 up, 2 down
CrusaderForever
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 10:16:49 PM
Reply
4 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 10:30:43 PM
Reply
Listen devs, put out the entire game at once on the disc so that any DLC is superfluous to the full story or you shall feel our wrath.
8 up, 2 down
xenris
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 10:18:55 AM
I remember how much content came on my FF9 discs, lots of game had what is now sold for DLC built into them. Hidden costumes, hidden endings, secret dungeons, hidden characters. Now its just trying to get as much money from the consumer as possible. Corporations are ruining video games IMO.
2 up, 0 down
I007spectre
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 10:43:43 PM
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And yes I wouldent be too happy, if in a few months they say look here a proper ending, 10 dollars please.
2 up, 2 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 11:04:09 PM
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/9/2012 11:10:15 PM
1 up, 1 down
bebestorm
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 10:44:25 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
The Real Deal
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 10:50:58 PM
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IF this is the new trend and requires me to shell out another $9.99, $14.99 or whatever skyrocketing process that are charging on top of the already high $59.99. Then at the age of 30 and a 18 year love fest hobby, i will finally retire from my passion and in return become a productive member of society.
4 up, 3 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 11:11:14 PM
1 up, 1 down
The Real Deal
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 11:16:34 PM
4 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 12:40:34 AM
2 up, 1 down
xenris
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 10:24:49 AM
I miss the PS2 era, and I miss Dragon Quest 8....seriously so much content in that game if RPGs are your thing. Personally my favourite JRPG of all time.
2 up, 0 down
THEVERDIN
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 11:41:07 PM
Reply
16 up, 0 down
xenris
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 10:26:07 AM
4 up, 3 down
TheAgingHipster
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 11:50:04 AM
If it makes certain that companies like BioWare will be able to continue producing games that I love to play, I'll gladly pay $10 extra for new missions that I perceive as icing on an otherwise wonderful cake.
3 up, 5 down
xenris
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 1:16:55 PM
Its obvious the Bioware has changed in the quality of its titles since it merged with EA. I am almost certain that ME2 and ME3 would have been quite different games, but EA wants to cater to the casual gamer and get as many people from the Call of Duty market to buy their games. Even square enix said they want to follow the Call of Duty formula.
Im not saying if you enjoy this game that you inherently love CoD, I'm saying that its obvious in some of the design choices from ME1 to ME2 and ME3 that they are trying to connect with that crowd.
But by all means keep buying the DLC, I will never buy it because I want complete games with my 70$ purchase. Games arent cheap and they are trying to get 100$ and up for a game and all its DLC...that is just plain wrong. Not to mention most of the way DLC is on the disc or deliberately cut from the game is terribly unethical.
3 up, 3 down
TheAgingHipster
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 3:52:47 PM
For all the effort that goes into a game, if it's good, I don't mind paying $100. This is my hobby, my passion, my entertainment. The price of admission will never keep me from taking part. Only the content will.
And for what it's worth, I hate CoD with a passion that knows no bounds.
2 up, 1 down
TheAgingHipster
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 4:33:16 PM
I'd include a link, but then this would get flagged for moderation. It's on the main page of the site though. Great read.
0 up, 0 down
Fane1024
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 1:10:53 AM
Then just wait until total price for the game and the DLC is $60.
As long as the game provides enough value (i.e., quality hours of play) for the money AND has a satisfactory ending (as presented on disc), I don't see how anyone can complain that EXTRA content is being produced for the game and sold separately after the release of the disc.
1 up, 0 down
xenris
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 9:20:43 AM
I know what DLC is supposed to do. However I remember getting high quality games for my PS2 and PSX, and there wasn't such thing as DLC. I just see a trend with DLC, and it looks more and more like they are CUTTING out content or holding it back/hiding it on the disc. Beam Boom made a good point with the Fallout DLC. Most of those were well worth the 10 bucks.
I understand its supposed to support the developers but, in the same way taxes are supposed to go back into the community with social services and programs well, that doesn't always happen right? I simply don't trust that the DLC$ is going into the game when 1) the games still have framerate issues on the ps3, and ME3 looks less polished to me than ME2 did, to be honestly. 2) the DLC in question is usually short and doesn't add significant content. I would prefer expansion packs of old where you got basically a games worth of content added on. 3) when companies like EA or THQ shut down developers because they didn't make enough profit. PROFIT has NOTHING to do with going back into the games. Profit is exactly that, its profit for the share holders.
But lets just agree to disagree, I have had a personal problem with the videgame industry for a while with trends like Call of Duty getting great scores and sales while other more innovative games get left in the dust. The watering down of games in general to appease this casual gamer I hear so much about. Finally DLC which doesn't bug me as much as the inconsistent journalism and biased scoring, but I see it as a problem that is getting out of control.
2 up, 0 down
xenris
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 9:24:01 AM
The complaints come from the content being released day one more than anything. It wouldn't be a problem if they made really deep in depth games with lots of content and THEN released DLC. But games in general are starting to feel more watered down, and then the DLC is there to unwater said game.
Also Hipster I didn't mean to sound hostile if I did. I sometimes get a certain tone when talking about this stuff without realizing it. Nothing against you personally.
0 up, 0 down
Fane1024
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 @ 12:04:57 AM
If games are being diminished, it's because they cost more to make. Planned DLC is a way to off-set that rise in cost.
(elcor voice) Not facetiously: would you rather have games cost $100 and take an extra year to release?
0 up, 0 down
wambo
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 1:09:06 AM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 3:29:40 AM
Reply
Sometimes I think of how much easier certain things would have been had they all just setted on one platform and be done with it. Not that I'd really want that to happen, but it would undoubtedly make certain things easier.
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/10/2012 3:33:44 AM
2 up, 3 down
TheAgingHipster
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 7:24:35 AM
1 up, 2 down
Beamboom
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 12:59:08 PM
What I hope is that my profile on the EA servers will take care of this. Cause one thing is for sure: I will keep playing games from the Mass Effect universe for as long as there is breath in me.
0 up, 1 down
___________
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 4:15:33 AM
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i was expecting allot more choices to be made, and allot of consequences from the get go.
but it seems allot of that does not happen till much later in the game, im only about 6 hours through and most of that is on side missions.
one thing thats disappointed me was in almost every ME2 mission you can choose what happens.
you can choose if a character does something or not.
for example the student mission in ME3, the students say we can take the top level and give you covering fire.
your choice is ok or ok.
in ME2 you could say no its too dangerous i dont want to risk any of yous getting killed.
but now you have to let them go you have no choice.
it just feels like the thing that made ME2 so great, the choices and consequences of your actions, the thing i expected to be toned up allot for this, has actually been toned down!
ME2 had allot of sinister twists to it too, how allot of things were traps, nothing was how it seemed.
ME3 though everything is how it seems, its just a little too predictable.
for a galaxy at war it certainly does feel a little too calm and linear.
thats whats spoiling it for me, instead of me creating the game it feels like everything is preset.
ME2 was playing a game, this is watching a movie!
thats what irks me, it just feels like they have limited the game allot and taken out allot of the more important content as DLC.
allot of people are complaining about the endings, that there not exactly a full drawn conclusion.
well, how much you want to bet there not a full drawn conclusion because half of the contents been removed for DLC?
sigh, why cant everyone in this industry be like david cage?
the man deserves a standing ovation for his interview with IGN yesterday saying were not in it for the money!
and you can tell he genuinely means that, obviously they have to get paid, but there more then happy to do risky things that there not going to make as much money in.
there true game developers, they want to push the industry forward, leap into the unknown.
not stay where they know there going to rake in big $$$$.
ME3 just feels so confined so restricted for the sake of gaining more fans, and allot of content removed for DLC.
still a awesome game, but i was really expecting everything toned UP from ME2.
where i got everything toned DOWN!
Last edited by ___________ on 3/10/2012 4:19:45 AM
1 up, 2 down
Lairfan
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 8:14:39 PM
The only reason you're so irate over ME3 (aside from being you) is that they hyped it up to have a huge amount of choice and differences depending on what you chose in the last few games. The problem with that is that when you have two games where you are given a huge illusion of choice, but no real actual choice at all, there's not much change you can effect in a final game. Plus, its not like they can go from choices that don't matter to choices that do matter in one game.
So really, I think everyone should have seen this coming. And the BS DLC didn't help either.
But my only problem with all the criticism is, the endings are actually incredibly satisfying, so long as you weren't expecting hugely different endings and a huge amount of choice. Once again, I don't understand why people expected so much from what I consider to be the most linear "open-world decision-making" game of all time.
0 up, 0 down
raptassassin
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 6:29:09 AM
Reply
-proud gamestop shoper since 1994-
all the haters just go ahead and hate. enjoy worrying about getting ur info stolen from places like amazon and what not. other places like best buy or walmart just don't need to have games in there stores.
edit: bring on the thumbs down i don't care.
Last edited by raptassassin on 3/10/2012 6:30:14 AM
0 up, 5 down
fatelementality
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 8:07:50 AM
Reply
Last edited by fatelementality on 3/10/2012 8:10:04 AM
9 up, 3 down
xenris
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 10:31:59 AM
I miss getting complete games. I also miss paying for expansion packs that were actually good and fleshed out, and full of content. BG2 is a good example of that.
1 up, 1 down
Beamboom
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 12:46:59 PM
But I think it's really, really unfair, in fact I'd call it a *miss* to name and accuse BioWare in this respect.
All their games so far have been complete experiences.
I clocked 80 hours on Mass Effect 2 and even more in Dragon Age:Origins - and as you know these games are pretty focused on story, so these hours are not from just fooling around like you can in for example GTA.
No matter how you twist and turn it: 80 hours is a WHOLE lot of quality gaming no matter how "tacked on" their DLCs then appear to be. Had every game been like this...
80 hours with an epic and conclusive story? What more can you ask of a game, really.
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/10/2012 12:54:38 PM
3 up, 1 down
xenris
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 1:20:35 PM
I just don't like when there is all of this planned DLC and you end up paying 100$ or more for the complete game. I did everything there was to do in ME2 and it took me 28 hours. First time. You can replay it over and over and get more time out of it sure. But its not fair that they charge you 10$ for an hour or two of extra content. Then they keep doing this.
I don't know I'm just sick of the industry trends I have been seeing and DLC I think is ruining it.
3 up, 1 down
Beamboom
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 2:45:22 PM
I play these kind of games sooo slow, I know, but also because I so totally fell in love with ME, I have never been so immersed in a game before in many, many years. So I had to do *everything* along the way and really focused on every single conversation.
But anyway, back on topic: I agree with what you are saying, I just don't think the BioWare games are the best examples to use. I mean, after all 28 hours still is a pretty darn long time, but more important: The story in ME2 without the DLC were complete, nothing felt ripped out.
I'd also, for the sake of arguing, would like to use another example where I would *defend* DLCs: Borderlands. Those DLCs were most definitely added content, and furthermore since the length of that game were of traditional shooter length it were just *great* to get more content for that game. A lot of content, they were both good and long.
I'd also like to use Fallout 3 as yet another examples for DLCs: Those DLCs also were real add-ons for that game, and again - it was great to get some more content for the game. It was true add-ons, and it made me get more out of my original purchase.
So DLC is not ALL bad. It just is too often used as a milk cow.
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/10/2012 2:54:23 PM
5 up, 0 down
fatelementality
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 5:58:47 PM
2 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 4:43:07 AM
Reason I responded was you statement about boycotting BioWare ever since KOTOR. I just think that's not the company to boycott over this at all. They don't deserve that.
Plus it's not all black&white either: If there is one game I *wish* there were dlc content for, it was Crysis 2. I totally loved that game, and after it was over I was like, "so... This is it then". Had there been more content available I'd buy it for sure.
0 up, 0 down
xenris
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 9:32:31 AM
I would also argue that ME2 just didn't feel complete to me after playing ME1. Story wise it was a letdown but thats for another topic :P I think lair of the shadow broker after playing it felt like it should have been in there, AAANNND what really bugged me was that the Arrival DLC made pretty much all the events in ME2 the collectors and everything you did, irrelevant. But again thats just me picking away at biowares fall from grace :P
Finally the developers listened to what the community wanted and added lots of stuff with just patches that didn't cost us a dime! This is what a good developer does. You should want to make the consumer happy and treat them like you know they are the only thing keeping you alive ;) Not as a means to make your wallet bigger, which is what I get from EA. Their DLC just feels so souless most of the time.
But as fatal said, you can tell when games don't FEEL complete and then all this planned DLC comes out to fill in the gaps and THAT is when I get my knickers in a big bunch.
0 up, 0 down
Beamboom
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 10:04:25 AM
One of the worst examples I can think of - also because I hold this publisher so dear - is Read Dead Redemption and the DLC that enabled you to play poker in multiplayer. I mean, come ON, the poker engine AND the multiplayer were already in the main game. GTFO.
And I a game need to feel complete, even in a trilogy like Mass Effect. Like the Lord Of The Rings movies. They obviously would continue in the next film, but still there is a start, a story, and an end.
But my point is that I think ME2 felt complete. When ME2 were over it was just SO over. No "wtf happened here", no "to be continued", no "end with a cliff hanger" type of thing. It was one big mother of an ending, an epic finale.
Are they after our money? But of course. They all are.
I just don't think they deserve to be held up as horror examples of the worst kind, cause they are not.
(what sucks here is that I am such a BioWare fanboy so I'd probably defend them regardless. But really, I seriously and in all objectiveness I am able to gather do not think they are the worst kids in class)
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/11/2012 10:05:36 AM
0 up, 0 down
xenris
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:28:32 AM
But yeah I don't think the Mass Effect DLC is the worst not by a long shot. I think the cake goes to Call of Duty. There DLCs are map packs with 4 or five maps. All of which you know can be made in a very short amount of time, especially considering they have been using the same engine and know how to code really efficiently with it. Valve knows how to do updates for shooters right. I get free maps for Counter Strike, TF2, Day of Defeat, and Left for Dead. Maybe they spoiled me :P
I agree that they are not the worst, however I still don't like the practice of DLC. I would be much more willing to pay for decent sized expansion packs if they are going to try and add longevity to the game. I find that the 5-15$ dlc gives the illusion of value you know spending 5-15$ is easy and more people will impulse buy it, but the content that you get is usually not even close to the price of admission. Especially if you dissect whats already in the game. Like if a game is 70 bucks, and you get say 30 hours from it thats like roughly 2 bucks per hours. So when I buy DLC that is 10 bucks and it adds maybe two hours, thats 6 bucks extra I'm paying.
Yes i know that if me and you played a game I might get less hours because I go through my games a bit quicker, but in RPGs there is always a base time that no matter what you cant beat it faster than that. I think that number is what they should be going off of.
Its okay to be a fanboy, as long as you can remain open, and be aware if they start going to far, based on your personal definition of what too far is. If you don't you might end up defending them when they are charging 10 bucks for a small piece of dlc that adds a huge amount of closure to the game, like say a "TRUE" ending.
Anywho I think we agree on most stuff anyway :)
0 up, 0 down
FxTales
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 7:36:28 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Fane1024
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 1:17:11 AM
And thanks for that.
:)
1 up, 0 down
Gamer46
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 9:48:37 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
Gamer46
Saturday, March 10, 2012 @ 9:57:19 PM
Reply
Last edited by Gamer46 on 3/10/2012 10:07:18 PM
3 up, 1 down
Irievibes
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 10:03:53 AM
Reply
this series is amazing , and i bought me3 because it continues and gives closure to the story i fell in love with on ME1
however , it is very dissapointing to hear that bioware pretty much cut corners and gave me a half assed end to that storyline (the only reason im playing these games) just to sell me a DLC down the road....
see this is what i get for wanting to support the industry...i think im going to take my copy back, get the pc version and do what i did in the past....download the DLC from torrents, i DOWNRIGHT REFUSE to pay for the ending and content (storywise at least) that should have been included from day one in the game...
and as long as you fanboys continue to pay 100 bucks for the game and its dlc , you will continue to inflate the gaming market , and companies will find more and more ways to give us less at admission price and milk us for more money with multiple DLC...
you think its bad now the way they split games up with dlc? if you keep paying said dlc , it will only send the message that its ok to cut corners and give us half a game
i personally will NEVER pay one single cent for dlc, if that means i miss part of the main story then so be it, ill take my copy back and osme other poor sod can save himself some money on gamestop.
1 up, 0 down
Lairfan
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 8:21:08 PM
For example, if I had listened to what people said about MGS4 on the MGS forums on the PS3 website, I never would have bought it. But I decided to give it a try, and it's one of my favorite games of all time.
0 up, 0 down
Lairfan
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 8:28:08 PM
Reply
Bioware's been hyping up ME3 for a long time now, basically trying to tell us the choices we made in the past games were going to make HUGE differences in ME3. The problem is, for the most part our choices in the past games produced the same outcomes, and the ones I remember that actually changed the game were so black and white that it was retarded to pick the renegade option (as it almost always is).
And then when we finally get to ME3 and find that Bioware still can't give us good choices to make, well, I think a bunch of people feel cheated because of that. I personally do not feel cheated because I knew there wasn't going to be a huge amount of choice, and I accepted that. But I think others are kind of feeling like they just spent the past 5 years of their life waiting to create their own unique space saga and end it unique-ly, and found that its basically the same ending for everyone.
Plus, this whole Prothean DLC thing doesn't help either. That's actually a good chunk of gameplay and story right there, and to cut it out of the game is a huge error on Bioware's part. Although I don't think they're the worst offenders of the DLC system, it does make them look pretty bad.
But I enjoyed the game, including the ending, so I guess it all works out. Except for the DLC.
0 up, 0 down
maxpontiac
Reply
Friday, March 09, 2012 @ 9:46:17 PM
EDIT- Ben, go to GT Planet... GT5 has been out for 16 months and it is STILL the same garbage.
Last edited by maxpontiac on 3/9/2012 9:49:49 PM