Friendly PSA: Buy The Game, Play The Game, And Shut Up

I apologize beforehand if I offend anyone, but this just has to be done.

But before I kick off the rant, I have to offer a disclaimer that I hope will stem the tide of knee-jerk reactions:

Our forefathers fought for the right to stand up and say, "I don't like this." We should all appreciate and treasure this freedom, especially because it sadly remains uncommon in many parts of the world. Any one of us can make a public statement; we can bring our opinions, our complaints, and our fears to our fellow citizens and peers and discuss on rational, intelligent terms. When united, those who feel wronged do indeed have some power, as it should be, as it should always be.

But here's something too few people understand these days- there's a big difference between what I just described and flat-out whining. Selfish, bloated with hot-air "opinions," self-righteous, horridly ignorant, and altogether annoying, these whiners are part of a generation of entitlement that is really starting to get under my skin. I'm sorry, but I just have to add- "Occupy" this. The hypocrisy and entitlement running rampant through such idiotic - and embarrassing - displays of a "you owe me this because I said so" mentality is the epitome of passing the buck. The epitome of laziness. Yeah, you heard me.

Now, the recent Mass Effect 3 unpleasantness was the straw that broke the camel's back, but in truth, this was only proof that the entitlement plague has hit the gaming culture hard. I am on record many times for saying I dislike the direction Square Enix has taken as a company, and what they've done to our precious Final Fantasy franchise, a 25-year series that was once beloved and revered by just about everyone. However, at the same time, at no point in either of my reviews for FFXIII and FFXIII-2 do I go so far as to claim the right of the "oppressed gamer" and go, "I don't like this so do something about it. Now."

They may lose me as a fan. But I don't claim to understand everything about how a multi-million-dollar corporation works, and I certainly don't believe I could walk into a S-E board meeting and say anything they don't already know. I seriously doubt any of us could. And let's not forget, Mass Effect 3 is a widely critically acclaimed title while FFXIII and FFXIII-2 were not (by comparison). And yet, now we've reached the point where it almost doesn't matter how good a product is? And the developers and designers are forced to listen to our demands? My only question is: at what point will any of these people be happy?

As each year passes, I grow more and more sick of the attitudes expressed in forums and communities; it only reflects the aforementioned entitlement that has infected this entire country. This is a hobby. This is entertainment. So in the first place, anybody who takes certain subjects this seriously doesn't have enough to do. In the second place, it almost seems as if the supposed "fans" are complete masochists. They don't live to revel in the latest masterful interactive adventure; they live to complain. They exist online to prove just how superior they are to everyone - including the designers responsible for the product - and lecture on everything that costs money. I mean, it's starting to get comical.

The downloadable content fiasco is ongoing, too. People often make fine points. But those rational individuals are too often drowned out by the whiners who apparently embrace socialistic extremes and believe nothing should cost anything, for any reason whatsoever. Yes, there are problems that need to be addressed, as there is in any multi-billion-dollar/year industry. Yes, publishers can and have ripped off the consuming public. Yes, we have a right to be annoyed by that. But for the most part, taking a step back and looking at this supposedly enjoyable hobby with a clear head, one can't possibly be disappointed with the level - and quantity - of quality seen on an annual basis.

So for my fellow gamers, a friendly PSA, if you don't mind- Buy the game. Play the game. And SHUT UP. If you don't have anything nice to say, if you can't just say, "gee, that was fun; thanks 'insert developer name here,'" than just don't open your mouth. We can do without the whining for a little while. Let's just take a break and have fun again. Can we, please?

Thank you.

Tags: video games, gaming, gamers, game fans, gaming culture

3/11/2012 8:55:31 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (126 posts)

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TheAgingHipster
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 9:43:47 PM
Reply

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for voicing this. It's been annoying me for years now, and with the recent griping about Mass Effect 3, it's gotten to the point that I've almost stopped keeping up with the industry news.

Except here. And this article is precisely why I trust PSXExtreme over all other video game news outlets.

11 up, 10 down

maxpontiac
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:09:24 AM

Indeed. Only gaming site I visit outside of this one is GT Planet.

4 up, 4 down

Naksy
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 10:04:53 PM
Reply

Well said.... If know that people are entitled to voice their opinions but i don't see why they make such a big fuss about something if they don't even like it in the first place...

4 up, 2 down

fatelementality
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 10:38:20 PM
Reply

If a game is fun to play, there shouldn't be too many major complaints to be voiced. As for DLC, ummm......cheapen it. Seriously man, if game companies did this, maybe more people would be tempted to buy it and they could make up the difference. I will never pay 5 bucks for an avatar or a weapon. Won't pay 10 for a character or a game mode. It gets out of hand when this happens. A games max price including all minor DLC shouldn't rise above 100 at the most. Major expansions (Shivering Isles comes to mind) are reasonably priced for the most part, just don't nickel and dime me to death. Actually, nickel and dime me all you want, just don't 5 and 10 me. I won't make any demands from a company, suggestions of course but never demands. Doesn't mean you will continue to get my business though. Look at at MGS3,4, and Peace Walker. When the hell was there even a cent charged for DLC (save for one decent sized MGS4 expansion)? GT5 has had MAJOR DLC esque updates for free as well. Maybe other developers should learn that this is how to attract customers that will continue to do business with them.

24 up, 0 down

Naksy
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 6:52:43 AM

Free DLC really helps sales... Like the 'Peer Review' DLC for Portal 2 was an amazing expansion that they could've charged 5$ or 10$ for easily... But they din't

5 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 10:44:40 PM
Reply

It's probably a bad idea to add your politics in there.

My 2 cents are already here: http://www.velocitygamer.com/do-great-franchises-belong-to-developers-or-fans/

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/11/2012 10:46:43 PM

9 up, 10 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:10:12 PM

It's relevant. And I really don't care, either.

13 up, 11 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:54:10 PM

I don't see any connection with people ruined by corrupt business practices and disenfranchised gamers is all.

12 up, 3 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:59:34 PM

Well, entitlement. Don't believe the guise of most moron protesters. For the vast majority, it's just lazy entitlement and nothing more. It's the same exact thing.

8 up, 13 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:11:39 AM

I think most of them just have nothing better to do and no job.

10 up, 11 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:25:05 AM

Exactly.

5 up, 13 down

Underdog15
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 8:58:50 AM

Always enjoy your pieces as well, World.

As for me, like Ben said in his piece, there's a big difference between voicing dissatisfaction and whining. It's one thing to be dissatisfied with your favorite franchises direction. It's another to have unrealistic expectations.

I personally don't mind ME fans voicing displeasure about an artistic direction so long as they continue to give credit where credit is due. The difference with both of your complaints (and mine) about something like FF, is that we all admit that within it's own merit, FFXIII was a great game.

Anywho, you are right about whining. I'm actually to blame for whining about whiners. I should probably just let them whine and move on.

1 up, 1 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 10:54:42 PM
Reply

Besides video games, I see this everywhere and being done over everything.

I think those constant crybaby whiners we had in the 19 80's "me, me, me generation" has now come back in a complete full-tilt circle once again to bite us in the ass once again, as it's rubbed off on their now-30' something crybaby brats today.

And unfortunately, the whiners of today(at least in the USA) have perfected it, and they're even being aided by way too many of their same like-minded me, me, me whiny, scandalous politicians.

If it was legal to slap some effin' sense into those people, I'd have at least a few million to give out.

6 up, 3 down

BorrowedTime
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:11:43 PM
Reply

When it comes to changes in gameplay mechanics that drastically alter how long established franchises are played, I feel that gamers have every right to express their outrage towards the developers of those franchises (Final Fantasy XIII and the PS3 iterations of SOCOM come to mind). However, I draw the line at whining/griping about the direction that the story of those franchises might take.

The recent online petition to change the ending of Mass Effect 3 strikes me as being the height of hubris on the part of the gamers. What right do these gamers have to dictate the artistic decisions that the story writers have chosen to make. To me, that would be akin to readers creating a petition to demand George R.R. Martin to change the outcome at Baelor's Sept in Game of Thrones and thus rewriting the entire Saga of the Songs of Fire and Ice.

6 up, 2 down

The Real Deal
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 6:59:58 AM

When customers feel that it wasn't artistic decisions that dictated the ending, but a financial one.

5 up, 0 down

Karosso
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:36:12 AM

War is Coming! :)

2 up, 1 down

BorrowedTime
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:58:53 AM

@ The Real Deal

Who are you to say that the ending that was presented in ME3 isn't what the story writers intended? Were you on the writing staff? Were you privy to the original story draft?

The Mass Effect trilogy as told from the point of view of Sheppard might be over, but it doesn't mean that there aren't spinoffs in the works (if that's the financial motivation you're referring to then as a developer it certainly is their prerogative), or that Bioware hasn't excercised their right to leave open the possibility of a Mass Effect 4.

0 up, 2 down

xenris
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:28:52 PM

Because the story of the reapers is a complete rip of an anime series. It just copies others and gives you a very lame "choice" at the end. It smells of planned DLC. They give the illusion of a complete game, but just wait and see what they release throughout the year. Its going to be important stuff that completes the game not adds to it.

This rip off wouldn't be bad if 1) it wasn't pretty much an exact copy and paste explanation for the reapers, and 2) if they didn't hint at the reapers true motives in ME1, which was something to do with Dark Space and finding a solution to it destroying the universe.

The other reason why it doesn't seem like they intended this to be the ending is because of the endings in all of the other games they made. People were expecting some sort of epilogue like in Dragon Age: Origins.

Here is the problem with all of this. If you don't call companies out on these things, like the DLC being on disk(which most of it is, you actually have all of his dialogue and his character just not the mission) and said DLC adding a HUGE amount of insight into the ME universe that apparently only CE people deserved or people who wanted to shell out 10 more bucks.

The DLC scene is getting way way out of control. Its NOT about keeping the developers funded, its about increasing profit margin which DOES NOT go back into the game. The profit margin is because the share holders demand it. This is why you have companies like Valve releasing free DLC because they aren't a publicly traded company.

If people didnt "whine" do you know how many bills and bi laws would get passed? Just the other year they wanted to destroy one of the purest springs in my area to make it a landfill, if we hadn't whined and complained we would have lost that. People even said we were whining and that we werent thinking of the bigger picture. Our whining made it so we still have that spring which we still get incredibly pure water from.

5 up, 1 down

reryan
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:12:43 PM
Reply

Certainly any gathering of people in a niche common interest will bring up the opportunity for complaining about a common gripe. I played Final Fantasy 11 (online mmorpg) for several years and I believe it was a masterfully crafted game that was ahead of its time and I don't believe any other mmorpg to date has surpassed. However, anytime there was a content update or a change of any kind, many users on forums complained incessantly.

Now, Square Enix has been known to be a bit bone-headed about listening to fan feedback so many changes that users suggested for FFXI were long overdue. My problem was with people who, like ben described, demanded a change and thought that their 12 bucks a month fee meant that they deserved to run the company. Furthermore, any attempt at reasonable defense of SE was seen as pure fanboy-ism.

An unpopular ending to a popular story doesn't give any gamer the right to 'demand' a different ending. Should rabid harry potter fans demand that JK Rowling resurrect Dumbledore? Should Romeo and Juliet be rewritten as happily ever after? I haven't played ME3 yet, but I believe that we have to take whatever endings the developers gave us and weave it into the full picture that is the Mass Effect 3 universe.

As long as it's not as bad as the cliche "It was all a dream" endings we get when writers run out of ideas...

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:03:27 AM

I agree that we shouldn't be able to make demands or direct changes, or shouldn't ask for that, but the hope is the outrage will make the next game the better for it.

It didn't quite work out that way with FFXIII-2 but at least the bastards listened to us and tried to put FF back into FF!

3 up, 1 down

Fox hounder
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:13:06 PM
Reply

Thank you ben for saying what i've been thinking for awhile :)

Anything that can i say has been said so... lol at Dr Evil. Good choice for a pic.

2 up, 4 down

cLoudou
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:17:50 PM
Reply

I blame the internet.

9 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:35:09 PM

And some clueless parenting!

6 up, 0 down

crokett
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:47:48 PM
Reply

I totaly agree and well said. I also agree it has alot to do with parenting.

4 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, March 11, 2012 @ 11:59:27 PM
Reply

I have no love for overwhelming and insane griping, but if fans don't speak up about something that ruins their favorite franchise then that opens the door to continued destruction. Developers should feel some responisiblity to fans who shelled out big money for the previous games. Does that mean they should change their ending? No but they should get a better finger on the pulse of the people who essentially funded the current product to begin with.

16 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:01:16 AM

I'm not really referring only to one incident. The entire trend of gamers is now, "the big businesses owe me something and I don't want to spend money on anything."

That's what I take issue with. And the complaining in general has gotten completely and entirely out of hand. Whining is all it is now. And it's embarrassing, I think.

4 up, 4 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:05:13 AM

It's embarrassing for us folks who like to think of ourselves as level headed people who happen to game but I honestly can't say if I wasn't an 18 year old pinhead I wouldn't be spouting the same nonsense.

My point is that while Bioware doesn't owe gamers anything, they should take this kind of thing into account when they make their next game.

7 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:28:09 AM

Personally, if I was at BioWare, I'd be so pissed I wouldn't be able to see straight. Years of hard work, constant deadlines, a stupid amount of stress; the end result being a memorable or at the very least, top-quality trilogy, and the way things are going, the only thing people will remember it for is this ending/DLC fiasco.

Zero gratitude whatsoever. And I really wouldn't be inclined to cater to those who don't appreciate in the slightest what I've done.

3 up, 6 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:00:32 AM

I suppose I wouldn't either. I still wonder if God of War IV is happening because so many were displeased with that ending (which was supposed to be the very end).

4 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:40:57 AM

Yeah sorry, I agree with you some Ben but your tone is horrid. There is a flipside to this coin. A big one. Gaming industries are merging and as such originality and consumers are losing out in general. The industry as a whole in a terrible state in terms of industry - gamer relations. Struggling to come to terms with how fast things are moving with the technology and audiences. Gamers in general do have entitlement now most definitely but the industry itself spurs on the hate. Bioware is not the company it was before it went under EA. there is a real lack of nuance in this entire article making it come off as vindicative. There is stressors going on.

The fact is the most original and wonderful developers out there aren't to be found in big studios under big publishers. Working on the latest shade of space marine or the 4 iteration of their latest franchise they are being made to make. They are in the indie scene.

12 up, 0 down

The Real Deal
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 7:15:34 AM

Ben: I think you might give Bioware a little to much credit. What if they didn't go through any of the stresses normally associated with a game that size. What if they cut corners, and knew because of its following it would be successful. I mean the hard work went into making Mass Effect 2, and they received the immense praise for that title.

They said on this one, well lest limit the choices on the side missions because its a pain to that all that voice over work, not to mention money. Lets trim that ending to a point where people want more, so that when we release a DLC that hints at the ultimate ending everyone that bought the game will have no choice but to shell out another $14.99.

My respect has dwindled for Bioware starting with Dragon Age 2, then SWTOR, and now Mass Effect 3. All very well reviewed, but lacking that same polish and finishing that Bioware was known for. See what i did there.

There was a time i would give Bioware all the credit in the world, that time has passed.

9 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:16:17 AM

Sorry Smokey, that just isn't true at all. Some of the biggest studios run by the biggest companies have produced the best games of the generation. From Rockstar and Take-Two to Sony and Naughty Dog to Ubisoft. The idea that only small teams have any real talent and work hard, and the idea that all big companies "cut corners" is just corporate bias talking. It's not even close to realistic.

Real Deal: The bottom line is you don't know what BioWare went through, either. Just because you're not happy about something doesn't mean they didn't work as hard as they did in the past. So there's no real proof there. And again, this isn't about Bioware.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/12/2012 10:16:34 AM

5 up, 3 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:40:18 PM

It isn't about "how hard they work" a film like transformers takes a lot of organization and will to pull off, it does. That doesn't give the end result a free pass if depth or other elements in the end are lacking.

You also put words in my post, I never said cut corners. Sloppy design, far be it. It's bigger than that.

These big productions are sometimes "inpeccable". They however lack a real vision or if there was one, it doesn't get properly developed. In favour of what is most easily administered. Iteration after iteration. They are sticking to the script. Doing it wonderfully sure, just like Michael Bay does his thing wonderfully. Now we have DLC after DLC within an installment by these studios with talent wasted. This is the reason why Molyneux years after being with Microsoft has finally left. Some big names even jumping off to go and explore facebook. This is freaking why. In the end what talent is there in the big studios, is not given control. That has been shamefully clear this generation. The fact is Naughty Dog has managed to keep a very awesome structure to hold off what actually happens in other studios despite growth. Keeping everyone as a valued voice and not breeding in weakness. So you just mentioning them actually strengthens my point.

You say this is simply not true but I have heard constantly developers talk about these issues, developers that have left studios. How the coalescing of so many publishers/developers merging and closing have suddenly hit home.
It's negative effect on both gaming as a whole and the development community.

Your answer too, keyword in it. This generation for me.

5 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:28:08 PM

Just mass generalization. You seem to think any sequel or new iteration in a franchise doesn't have any fresh "vision," which is never true, and has never been true, in any generation.

1 up, 5 down

xenris
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:43:10 PM

Call of Duty would like a word with you Ben. What is fresh about MW3 from MW2? What new vision do they have? Same crappy network code, same high octane ADD generic military war story with flash so that you don't pay attention to how bad the story is.

Smokey mas some excellent points and you just seem to dismiss them as his opinions. He is stating FACTS about the gaming industry. Its true. There is a winning formula for games right now, and you can see that from ME1 to ME2 that bioware, but most likely EA decided that they wanted to ditch the RPG and turn it into a shooter to pull in more people.

Oh and I know you loooove UC3, but honestly what knew and fresh vision did it have from UC2? UC2 was in my opinion the best of the uncharted series in terms of gameplay and story.

If by fresh vision you mean, trying to figure out how to earn their shareholders more profit? Then ya I agree with you.

4 up, 0 down

maxpontiac
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:08:00 AM
Reply

My favorite post by you to date.

Seriously.

4 up, 4 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:29:06 AM
Reply

By the way, if people are missing it, my point is simple-

Less whining, more having fun. It's really not more than that. :)

7 up, 6 down

CheddarClyde
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:46:47 AM
Reply

Man this generation of gaming has definitely brought the jerks out of the woodwork. I'm about to show my age here, but back in the SNES-Genesis days we could agree to disagree on which system and games were better. We didn't complain about endings (mainly because we were lucky if we got one) and we definitely didn't have the grapes to demand anything from the companies that made these games. I don't know if it is the mentality of the younger generations or the atrocious parenting (my generation caught the belt when we acted out), but the sociopathic, narcissistic attitudes of many immature gamers has made the "social" aspect of gaming the most toxic.

With that said, if the "endings" were deliberately made to be incomplete with the intent of coming out with $15 DLC that properly wraps the series up then I'm sorry, that is just wrong.

4 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:18:00 AM

Yup, and in the older days people had manners & taught the same.

But somewhere down the timeline teaching manners got thrown by the wayside.

And now that there's a thing called the internet, whiners mistakenly think that they've grown big balls now.

But what they don't realize,is that it's hard to grow a pair when hiding behind a computer screen....or mama's hemline.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 3/12/2012 1:18:59 AM

4 up, 1 down

CheddarClyde
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:25:39 AM

...and just to clarify, my issues is more money here than the ending. An ending is something that I'll either love or hate based on how well it's done, but I won't demand anything from the developer if it ends up being the latter. Some people hated the endings of Se7en and Black Swan while I personally loved them. To each his own.

I haven't played any of the ME games, but my fear is a scenario where I buy a game, play it for 20-30 hours to completion and get a "To Be Continued" screen that prompts me to plop down $20 for a 2 hour DLC pack with the actual ending. From what I've heard, that sounds like the situation here though I might be wrong. I know these games are expensive to make but Christ it isn't like you aren't making your money back.

7 up, 0 down

CheddarClyde
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:26:45 AM

So very true Biker.

3 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:35:58 AM

ah ha, imposter Heihachi returns!
DOn't think I wouldn't have noticed =p

1 up, 0 down

goldentinny
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:39:50 PM

I think what Biker said has some truth to it - let's face it, the internet does not give people any incentive to temper their responses because of the anonymity that it provides.

But I have to say that, in person, the conversations I have about games have not become much more negative. A little bit, yes, because there simply just isn't as much variety now as there used to be. But even when I worked in GameStop, and I ran into all sorts of crazies, I did not encounter the amount of negativity you find in every corner of the internet.

I have enjoyed a lot of games this generation, I am just concerned that the high overhead costs have encouraged a lot of developers to play it safe. But gamers are just as much to blame for that, let's be honest - money talks.

2 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:26:55 AM
Reply

Can't agree on the occupy movement, the issues being raised from that and parallels to gamers... Poor form, it's not entitlement which has made up a global political movement combating real issues. Sure, maybe specific cases they haven't been doing it effectively, but a battle of ideas has been happening.

7 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:17:35 AM

No, it isn't. As usual, the real issues are being deadened by laziness and hypocrisy.

3 up, 4 down

xenris
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:51:35 PM

The occupy movement is about accountability. When someone is alleged for ripping off the wellfare system in canada which is a measly 400 dollars a month, which in most cases they were paying for in taxes themselves before they needed wellfare, the government secures their belongings and they can go to jail for years.

Then you have our government who "loses" billions of dollars and they are given a slap on the wrist IF that. This is what the occupy movement was about. Yes there are lazy people that want stuff for free, but there is a lot of stuff wrong with how things work in a monetary sense.

As for this article, I disagree 100% We have a right to complain and to whine. In the end it will only make the developers try harder and produce better products right?

5 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:46:59 PM

xenris: No, it won't. It won't because it sounds like we're a bunch of whiny brats who don't deserve a fraction of the effort developers put into their products.

It'll have the reverse effect. It'll cause devs to just go, "well, we can't make everyone happy anyway and people are going to complain no matter what we do, so we're not going to kill ourselves this time."

0 up, 3 down

xenris
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 @ 3:57:17 PM

We'll I complain and I don't buy games that do things like this. The fact that you don't think that voicing your opinion on not liking a product is laughable.

This trend, of screwing over consumers in order for planned DLC is ridiculous and the fact that you are upset about it over FF13-2 but not here is pretty silly.

ME3 gave the illusion of a complete game, but you better bet they will make us pay for a proper ending. Some people want this, in fact I would bet that this is what EA wants. I for one will not touch that with a stick, because I want to be part of the change.

If you want to say games were more expensive back in the day, that isn't entirely true either. Not every game was 100$, I remember picking some up for 20 and 30$ brand new when I was in public school. Gaming wasn't an industry so some companies charged a lot for games because only 1000 people or so would buy them.

Now you have games selling more than ever, even games that are considered "bad" are sometimes selling 500 000 to 1 million units. The video game industry is making more money now than it ever has, charging 70$ a pop then demanding 10$ for DLC every couple of months so you can get the complete experience is unethical.

Its not about entitlement its not about whining, its about seeing a trend in the gaming industry thats getting out of control.

They should be listening to us, we are the ones keeping them in business. The fact of the matter is they are doing this to please the shareholders so that they can get more PROFIT. That means none of that goes back into the game its purely for the shareholders.

Again this is why Valve is one of the best gaming companies ever, alone with CDprojekt (made the witcher) Because they give out free content updates and patches for sometimes 5 year old games(TF2 and L4D2 are good examples) This is how they get loyalty and more sales of older products, while also keeping their current customers happy and loyal.

I don't complain about every game ever released, last year many amazing games came out and I didn't have one single problem with them. The witcher 2, Dark souls, WKC2, Yakuza4, Killzone 3, BF3, Portal 2, all of these were awesome complete games.

I complain when I smell foul play, and EA/bioware smells of rot.

2 up, 0 down

Gabriel013
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 2:26:45 AM
Reply

I think it's terribly unfair to make the assumption that the the complainers want everything for nothing. That is simply not true. What the majority of complainers want is to be charged a fair price for the best possible product. If no one called foul on diststeful business practices then they would just get progressively worse.

I do not want something for nothing. What I do want is to not feel like I am being over charged for something I enjoy.

I'm happy for pricing structured to create a profit. That makes sense. What doesn't is the practice of not maximising the quality of a product and then overcharging for it.

There are too many who just smile and nod and hand over the cash and without those who raise objection, the videogame hobbyists are going to find their pockets squeezed more and more.

As for critisism of the design choices I agree some can go overboard BUT I'd hope that the developers might consider what it is the fans don't like and use that to influence their design decisions in future. There is a fine line to walk between telling your story how you want to tell it and give the consumer what they want to buy.

7 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:18:57 AM

Sorry, but that's baloney. Look around and listen. Everyone complains. All the time. About ANYTHING. That was the point.

3 up, 3 down

PoopsMcGee
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 11:57:03 AM

Yeah, I mean you're complaining about people complaining right now...

;)

3 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:37:04 PM

Hey, when in Rome... ;)

1 up, 4 down

goldentinny
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:54:11 PM

Yeah but that has always been the case in gaming. Games were even more expensive 10 years ago than they are now. And quality is subjective, I believe game quality has vastly improved in a number of ways. Games are shorter but when you look at why many PS1 games were so long, for instance, you see that a lot of it is fluff - level grinding, get X item sidequests. Of course Square has refused to evolve in the worst of ways, but what can you expect from them now really.

At least with games you have options: resale, rental, borrowing from a friend, etc. That's not the case with all forms of entertainment - when you go to the movies, if you don't like the film, well too bad you paid for it.

One thing that infuriates me though is the haphazard way that games are sold. It's one thing to have paid DLC, it's another thing to offer paid DLC only to come out with a super compelte deluxe edition 5 months later with all the DLC included, oh yeah, and it's 40 bucks.

0 up, 0 down

Gabriel013
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 @ 2:12:19 AM

goldentinny, I agree that game prices haven't really changed over the past 25 years, however the size of the market has.

If you knew your market was a few hundred thousand people then you had to charge an astronomical price to make sure you broke even. Now the sales potential is measured in the millions and so they can afford to charge less and still break even.

Ben, I didn't say that everyone's complaints are always justified; Some are over the top and unnecessary.
I just objected to how I interpreted your article and comments you've made in the past - All the complainers are just entitled brats who want everything for nothing.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 @ 9:28:55 AM

All the complainers that act in the fashion I'm talking about ARE.

0 up, 1 down

Gamer46
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 2:44:03 AM
Reply

I actually agree with most of what you say Ben but I'm surprised all this comes on the heels of what's going on with Mass Effect 3. The 'complaining' in that case is more than justified. Nothing about it has to do with entitlement. It's gamers fed up with getting shafted by developers. If these people would charge fair prices for DLC and not halfass its products there would be less complaints. I'm sorry but forcing people to pay for a real ending like some games have done (ME 3 will no doubt be added to the list) is just disgusting. Yeah, charge people $60 for half a game then $20 for a two-hour piece of dlc to complete it. Real fair.

Last edited by Gamer46 on 3/12/2012 2:51:04 AM

9 up, 1 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:26:31 AM

Yeah, I agree with this as well. Mass Effect 3 for once there is some justification at a response to decisions. Call the response disproportionate maybe but there is a case to be made that Bioware is losing their way. Why is multiplayer in this title in the first place is one simple question right there.

8 up, 1 down

xenris
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:58:02 PM

Agreed. They give the illusion of a complete game, by giving juuuuust enough. But as the DLC rolls out people realize oh wait, this is pretty crucial to the game and not really "optional" at all. It started with the Arrival DLC which made the collectors and most of the plot in ME2 actually irrelevant.

Heck if you have been following the ME series and if you knew bioware you would know that they never used to do this.

You know why multiplayer is in there? Its an easy way to implement a micro transaction system without seeming like a COMPLETE scumbag, although once I heard that they actually implemented that system it sealed the deal, the bioware I knew was dead.

3 up, 0 down

___________
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:02:34 AM
Reply

how are people suppose to react?
when a developer comes out and promises things for there games, people expect them!
so when they dont deliver, of course people are going to start complaining seeking what was promised!
im really starting to not want to read anything about new games what so ever, because every time i do i get fed bull sh*t!
a prime example, so many games these days promise player customization.
players can change what happens in the game drastically depending on who they befriend, which missions they complete, and how they play.
if you do this then that changes the following levels you play.
but how many actually do it?
NONE!
well, actually one.
ONLY game ive played that actually lives up to that promise is alpha protocol, which is EXACTLY why i love it so much!
and is exactly why so many games should take cues from it.
though a million games promise it, and only one has delivered.

binary domain for instance.
the developers promised the your team mates will watch how you play.
if you keep going in head first and getting yourself killed they will distrust you.
the worse you play, the less they trust you, and the less they will obey your orders.
but does this actually happen?
NOPE!
you can be a complete idiot, tell them to advance when theres 50 enemies ahead of them getting them killed 1000 times and they will still obey you like a blind sheep!
so again developers writing checks they cant cash!

or GTAIV.
R* said there were choices in the game that you have to make that will change how the game plays out.
but they dont!
the choices you make are so insignificant and make NO difference what so ever!
only one i can remember is that army guy who screwed you over back in your country.
you can choose to kill him or let him go.
but does it make any difference what you choose?
nope!

or even heavy rain.
QD promised every level your character will be in danger and you can die.
and if your character dies it will have drastic consequences and will make it so much harder to find ethans son and save him.
but does it?
nope!
another prime example, manfrads shop.
if you dont clear up all the evidence that you were there all you get is a extra cut scene showing you and the girl being interviewed.
wow, thats a real drastic change!
again developers writing checks for Ferraris when they only have 50 dollars in the bank.
again developers promising something and not delivering so of course people are going to get upset!

ME3 again was suppose to be the closing of the series, take account for what you have done in ME1 and ME2 and make you pay for it in ME3.
im about half way now and i have not seen a single decision i have made in the previous games come into effect!
choosing to let mordin kill his co worker for instance.
what difference does it make if you let him live or kill him?
or the geth for instance, what difference does it make if you just erase their memory in the ME2 DLC, or choose to completely destroy them?

im sick of developers promising the world and delivering next to nothing!
then they come out all shocked at the backlash.
your joking right?
its like f*cking your bosses wife, dressing up like him stealing his car and using it to rob fort knox, then going into work the next day and wondering why your fired.
seriously!?
maybe if developers stopped talking out of their a$$ and were honest and truthful to their fans then maybe these things would not happen?

put it this way.
if your promised a Ferrari for your birthday, and end up getting a kia your going to be disappointed, no?
sure you should be grateful for getting a new car, but its a dam side off a Ferrari!
so of course people are going to be signing petitions and complaining that the developers short changed them.
if you promise me something then i dam expect you to deliver on it!
dont let your mouth write checks your body cant cash!
developers REALLY need to learn that, and fast!
otherwise this shamble is going to continue......

all im asking is for developers to shut their fat mouths and for once actually only say something if their game is going to deliver that!
is that so much to ask?
you dont see car companies saying their cars have 300MPH top speeds and 0-60 times in 3 seconds when they dont now do you?
so why does the game industry get away with it?
all im asking is for once a game to actually live up to its promise!
is that SO much to ask!?

Last edited by ___________ on 3/12/2012 3:16:51 AM

7 up, 4 down

SmokeyPSD
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:21:37 AM

Wall of text, all of it says to me that you need to manage your expectations. Also, Quantic Dream never said that SPECIFICALLY. They fulfilled what was set out in their charter that actions had consequences in my opinion. Your twisting words saying they said every "level". HR didn't have levels, it was designed to be an emotional journey which you were the director of. Not every moment you take big u-turns in the story just for shits and giggles.

Last edited by SmokeyPSD on 3/12/2012 3:22:59 AM

4 up, 1 down

___________
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:23:52 AM

ahhh, yes they did.
go look up the E3 demo.
on stage they said that in each scene the playable character can die and if they do it drastically changes the game.
the level they showed off was the garage level with the FBI agent.
i deliberately let him die at the acid pit where your suppose to struggle and give yourself a injection i deliberately let him die to see what it would change.
and i got the same outcome as the ending i got where no one died.
im sick of developers promising things and not delivering, then pulling the innocent kitty act when the sh*t hits the fan.

2 up, 3 down

Lemon_Saint
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:26:13 PM

I remember back in the Super NES days and Genesis days seeing one of the cutscene images on the back of the box, (back then, unless you had a magazine subscription, it was the only way to see any screenshots), and thinking, "Holy shit! Is this what the game looks like?" Almost every single time, I was disappointed, but it never stopped me from playing the games.

Maybe you can look at it like this: Perhaps advertisers should stop making promises of what their products do, period. Beer won't always bring a good time. Trucks won't make you a man. Fast food is not all sunshine and smiles. Body spray won't make the oppostie sex more attracted to you. At least with video games we are getting half-truths, and not being flat-out lied to.

1 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 4:18:44 AM
Reply

This is complicated topic, imo. On one hand, sure, appreciate the efforts, and I fully agree with the comment by Ben further up saying more or less "if I were Bioware I'd be mighty pissed now".

On the other hand, when something IS done bad, the fans SHOULD react. They should should not just take it and defend it no matter what. Cause we see that too, on a regular basis.

And this really is nothing new in the wider perspective of entertainment. Fans can be one tough, unforgiving crowd.
Look at what the Star Wars fans say about George Lucas latest efforts in that franchise. They tear apart pretty much everything he does, from the restoration of the first movies to the directors cut of the last ones. They do this to such an extent that Lucas has gone on record saying he don't really want to do any more Star Wars now, because everybody seem to hate whatever he does.

Fans can easily become an extremely polarized crowd: They either defend it with all they got, refuse to see ANYTHING wrong with it, or they tear it completely apart. No middle road. No "it was ok".

Last edited by Beamboom on 3/12/2012 4:41:32 AM

4 up, 0 down

Ultimadream
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 6:47:00 AM
Reply

I haven't played ME3, but from what I understand there are multiple endings, I don't know how varied these endings are but surely they cant all be awful.

As for gamers complaining these days well... to put it simply there is a lot to complain about in how the indusrty is heading.

DLC - Possibly the worse thing about this generation. The idea itself is not bad, developers working on content after the release and giving use more to the game. But in reality most developers have the content ready before the release and hold it back so they can get more money off of us. & because of DLC, you rarely unlock things in games, it's now just slapped as DLC.

Online multiplayer a necessity - Nowadays you cannot release a title without online multiplayer it seems. Many games like Bioshock 2, Dead Space 2, Uncharted 2 had online multiplayer, while fairly executed it just felt forced. It seems this gen wants to eliminate the old days of gaming where you'd play games beside a friend or more in a room. I look at my games and the majority of them are single player, but have online multiplayer to make up for it, but it doesn't. Prime example, Burnout: Paradise. how does such a game not have multiplayer with friends, I rememebr Burnout 3 taking in turns in crash mode or racing split-screen in many events. It just seems pre-historic now.

Of course, this gen we have seen a huge leap in terms of an audience, gaming is now becoming as popular as a medium as flims, books, TV, music. And a lot of the time it feels like games have to appeal to the masses and the way the industry is going. many of our classic games have taken a more action styled approach to their gameplay. With the rise of American developers, I feel we're truely losing a lot of the magic which was within gaming. As most Japanese developer are looking at games which are selling well like CoD or Fallout and are trying to be like them. This is why many of our favourite japanese developed titles have fallen this gen.

While there are some good things about this gen, there have been some cracking titles, I like the PSN and Trophies. The bad heavily outways the good and I am really questioning whether I want to continue gaming at the moment with the way things are going.

5 up, 0 down

The Real Deal
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 6:47:16 AM
Reply

*Gulp* LOL *Gulp*

Ben my bud, I agree with some of what you stated within this article. Especially the area that there are great games that have been released this generation. Portal 2, Metal Gear Solid 4, Uncharted Series, Heavy Rain, Demon Souls, Final Fantasy 13, Batman: Series, Fat Princess; and many more that i have played and haven't.

These games specifically have one thing in common they were all complete with very little to no DLC. They are masterpieces that remind me of the best of times in my gaming history. These are the games I want and the ones I purchase day one.

Another list of questionable games are Fallout 3, Mass Effect 3,COD Anything, Spyro Skylanders, and many more. These also have something in common, large amounts of DLC that is less optional in nature, and more "yeah we know you have to have it". These gotcha DLC cost between $39.99-$99.99 dollars. Anyone of these titles could cost you a total of $99.99. That is more than 1/3 of the cost of the system you play these games on.

Which means if someone buys three of these titles within a year, you are spending close to $299.96 a year. Consumer's tend to only want to buy a Playstation once every 4 years or more. But current trend dictates that if you buy three of these DLC heavy games you are spending the cost for a playstation every year.

Another way of thinking you could buy three games that are shipped complete with very little to no DLC for $179.96. This allows for two more games before we ever get to the 300 dollar threshold. Whats the difference between a full game and DLC, well time and quality. To complete a full game can take upwards of 60 hours. Whereas a DLC usually is limited to 5 hours or less of additional content.

Lastly, what expectations did you have when you launched a site such as "PSXExtreme"? Having an audience of whiner's should be considered a good thing, at least for business. I mean the biggest success story of whiner's in one place is Call Of Duty. I don't see Activision putting out statements saying, stop the whining.

2 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 7:22:54 AM

No, it's not that simple.

The Fallout 3 DLCs were *real* DLCs. The game itself had a complete story (and good story too, imo) with a complete ending. The DLC are *new* stories and new maps/areas to explore too. In fact, the Fallout 3 DLCs works as good examples of how DLCs *should* be.

There is nothing wrong with DLCs in itself. Done right a DLC will elongate a game, and the fans of that particular title should appreciate that.
Problem is that DLC is used by too many as pure milk cows. But don't blame the GOOD DLCs for that.

In fact, I wish that Crysis 2 - one of my favorite games of 2011 - had DLCs. Not cause I don't think the campaign were good enough as it were - it was - but because I want *more*. And if there was a Fallout'ish DLC for C2 I'd buy it instantly.

Last edited by Beamboom on 3/12/2012 7:26:29 AM

3 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:22:20 AM

Nobody forces you to buy DLC for anything. And at no time have I ever played a game this generation - EVER - and said, "gee, this is incomplete and I need DLC to make it better."

Whether the DLC is overpriced or not worth the price or whatever is completely irrelevant. It's optional. It's an optional thing that costs money.

Why people freak out about this, I will NEVER know. All it boils down to is that whatever DLC comes out, everyone immediately thinks it should've been in the game in the first place, and are annoyed. That's basically the point we've reached.

1 up, 4 down

The Real Deal
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 @ 7:54:46 AM

Ben: You answered your own question: why when a game is released, then reported it will have DLC people whine. Because everyone thinks it would have existed in the game if DLC didn't exist.

2 up, 0 down

Miister47
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 7:21:22 AM
Reply

Man, you can't be more right!! I've been desperate reading all those comments on all those sites/forums. I work in the gaming industry and being able to have feedback from people is priceless but!! When i see the major quantity of bullshit and stupidity that are written by lots of people, i just ask myself : are everyone that crazy?!? Can someone appreciate something in 2012 ? Can we live in society where people could be a little optimistic and encourage good stuffs instead of blaming and whining about stupid details...Well, i guess that's their problem because they sure can't be happy whining all the time like that...
Anyway, thank you Ben for sharing this !! Thank you so much!

3 up, 1 down

karneli lll
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 8:13:30 AM
Reply

I agree with the less whining, people cry then still buy the game??? So what was the point in crying over spilled milk if you're on your knees licking it up? We cried rivers, lakes,seas even, over final fantasy 13 and nothing changed.

Last edited by karneli lll on 3/12/2012 8:16:24 AM

2 up, 0 down

lateralus27
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:12:06 AM
Reply

Occupy this?Sorry Ben but when did courageous folk who have the strength to stand up to the theft of 1 TRILLION $ be anything other than hero's?Your grand-kid's grand-kid's will still be paying off that debt and you give crap to the folks who complain?Do some research about the world banks before you mouth off about those with courage.

In regards to games I do agree with you,while my granddad was fighting in WW2 folks these days have the luxury of fighting COD Vs BF or 360 Vs PS3.

Complaining about people smart enough to stand up to the banks and government is whinging?,are your reviews going to be 10 or blank from now on?

This generation has done more to fight against racism,homophobia,sexism,bank greed,religious hypocrisy than any of the co-called moral leaders in history.The USA constitution had a clause not to abolish slavery for 10 years after it was signed.Land of the free indeed!

6 up, 3 down

lateralus27
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:29:18 AM

People are not entitled to complain about one trillion in theft?The bankers get million dollar rewards while the protesters get pepper sprayed,what the hell is wrong with you?If I robbed your home would you be upset if you got insulted for making too much noise in front of the police station because the police did nothing about the robbery?

5 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:44:24 AM

You have no idea how badly I want to rob YOU right now.

2 up, 5 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:19:52 AM

'sigh' Exactly what I'm talking about.

Completely clueless people standing on a soapbox. Embarrassing.

3 up, 7 down

lateralus27
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:21:12 AM

Why?

3 up, 1 down

lateralus27
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:42:17 AM

I find it interesting your ego tells you to call me completely clueless without telling me why I'm wrong,how embarrassing.Why do you think I'm wrong?Can you find anything to prove it?Go on,please do.

I'm embarrassing?But how many corrupt people stand on their soapbox and get media airtime?Please!

7 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:48:05 AM

Just stop. This isn't going to turn into a political mess.

I would suggest at least doing some research.

2 up, 6 down

pillz81
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:03:39 PM

Research on what?

3 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:34:46 PM

@pillz
exactly. lol ;)

@lateraluz
Because of the biased politicking you plastered in your post based on one line meant only as a comparison and example to defend the greater point.

Seriously. I could write a page and a half about the many assumptions mixed in with the pieces of facts you mentioned, but the point Ben and I are making now is quite simply that this isn't the forum for such a discussion.

Hence our unwillingness to discuss the topic, and my distaste for political propaganda in a thread about gamer's senses of entitlement, which is only a symptom of a greater issue. That's the only reason the occupy thing was brought up: to acknowledge the entitlement issue is more far-reaching than video games.

I'm not sure why you're surprised we aren't willing to go any deeper than what has already been said... it's irrelevant.

1 up, 4 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:42:19 PM

That's what I meant when I said it was a bad idea to add politics to the argument.

6 up, 0 down

Teddie9
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:45:32 PM

@ lateralus The occupy movement's basis had no focus when it go out there and thus changed nothing. It is a perfect example of the "lazy" people Ben speaks jumping on the bandwagon.
There is some kind of self gratification these people get by whining....

Last edited by Teddie9 on 3/12/2012 9:46:16 PM

1 up, 4 down

Victor321
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:29:25 AM
Reply

AMEN!!

2 up, 1 down

DjEezzy
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:16:21 AM
Reply

1,000,000 thumbs up to you ben. Seriously, this is the only blog/forum that i come to now because for the most part, most everyone is at least civil. I do still come across the needless whining but it's very few and far between. I've pretty much said this same thing before when it came to the new DMC and MGR: Revengeance as well as BF3. People complain about one thing, the developers listen and actually fix what people are complaining about, then they start complaining about something else!!! It's a never ending cycle and it is really quite ridiculous. I ask myself all the time what ever happened to just having fun and appreciating what you have. Good on you mate for saying this. You are truly an educated individual and i really enjoy coming to your site to see what you have to say. I always think of your site as the "Grown up Gamers" site.

On the subject of lazy parents... I'm not going to go there because i'm a parent. I do my best to bring my kids up well. Our environment is overwhelmingly overpowering sometimes with the internet and temptation being thrown at you from all angles. I will always do my best to raise my kids right and to make sure the work hard for what they want but there are no guarantees. Blaming parents is not a very good argument in my eyes. I'm sure most parents dont sit there and say "Hmm, i hope my kid grows up to mooch off of other people and to be lazy and entitled". No offense to anyone but it's not always the parents fault and really more adults complain then children do because most children are happy with horrible games like wii shovelware. I don't see kids and teenagers asking for new endings for games and freaking out because a story didn't turn out all epic and such. It's the average gamer like you and me 25 and older that complain.

Last edited by DjEezzy on 3/12/2012 10:23:15 AM

1 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:24:50 AM
Reply

And I'll repeat myself again: this isn't about ME3 or endings or DLC or politics. It's just about getting back to a point where gamers ENJOYED THEIR HOBBY.

All it seems they do now is complain. About everything. I'm generally a cheerful person, especially when it comes to games, and I just want to see my fellow gamers having some fun. That's all. It just appears as if so many are so unhappy ALL the time. And that's sad to me, especially considering what we have available in gaming today, as compared to 25 years ago.

I hope this explains it better. I know the headline is designed to turn heads, but the message is more benign than people are making it out to be.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/12/2012 10:28:29 AM

5 up, 1 down

wackazoa
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:34:48 AM

Ben when the HOBBY started it was inexpensive and we all played games that we very basic. Hardly no story or as in D&D one we made up. Now we are spending pretty decent money on story driven games sometimes to be dissapointed. Frustration will show up and most people dont deal well with frustration.

Want to enjoy it more... make the games simpler and cheaper.(See angry birds...)

2 up, 4 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:47:12 AM

Dude, it was NOT inexpensive. Games cost the same as they do NOW. If you count the gigantic leaps in technology since then and inflation, that doesn't even make any sense. My parents paid $60 for Super Mario Bros. I recently paid $60 for Uncharted 3. ...get what I mean?

Oh, and hardware - relatively speaking - was WAY more expensive.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/12/2012 10:57:46 AM

7 up, 0 down

ZenChichiri
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 11:11:17 AM

As the industry shows signs of maturation people will nitpick. There are those that have grown up with games and now they're finding it increasingly harder to entertain themselves with this hobby the more they do it. That's just the way it is. Instead of finding other hobbies they nitpick on the smallest details and demand perfection. In this quest for perfection (that perfect 10!) fun is left behind for that of this other special term people love to throw around called quality. The problem with quality is that the objective nature of games are over analyzed and people forget about the subjective aspect: fun (or at the very least entertainment).

I'm not trying to pick sides on the ME3 problem by the way guys, so if you mention that in response to my post heads will roll. This is just a generalization of my opinion on the industry through my own experience and from talking to others.

Last edited by ZenChichiri on 3/12/2012 11:12:37 AM

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:04:04 PM

I've been buying & collecting everything gaming now for over 35 years, so believe me on this......

Gaming has NEVER been inexpensive.

The Atari Jaguar was selling at MRSP for $700 at launch.
My 3DO went for $800 MSRP at launch.

And all of those those old cartridge games were going for $50 and that was well over 25 years ago.

BTW, the only game's that I know of that were ever cheap at launch were "Take-2"s games for the PS1, such as their 5 game franchise of "Spec Ops", which sold at $9.99 MRSP, and at the same time that everyone else was selling their games at $50.

2 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:39:42 PM

Sorry wackazoa, not to be critical or offensive, but gaming has -NEVER- been inexpensive... If anything, it's more accessible now than it has ever been.

I remember saving up as much money as I could to buy games. I remember having to -EARN- my games, the few that I had. Heck, while the cost of living has gone up and incomes inflate with minimum wage increases over the last 20 years, the prices of games have stayed remarkably similar, and mostly, the same.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/12/2012 1:41:14 PM

3 up, 0 down

wackazoa
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 @ 9:18:15 AM

Was actually refering to how I (and maybe most of us got started in gaming....) the Arcade. Sorry wasnt talking about systems because I have always been late to the console party except for the PS3.

3 up, 0 down

wackazoa
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:31:11 AM
Reply

Interesting point Ben. The idea of entitlement is pretty strong Im sure because alot of children/now grown up have been entitled their whole lives. Parents giving in to thier childs every whime, or companies afraid to say no so they wont get sued/criticized in public.

I for one will not buy a game if I dont like it.(AC3 looking at you my friend) But to buy a game then complain about the story and how it ends is kinda crazy. But... remember all the tv shows we have watched for 6 or more seasons only to find out it was all a dream... or everyone was already dead.(Im still pissed at LOST)

So I guess there is no cure. Its engrained in our beings now. Just have to put up with it.

0 up, 0 down

Lemon_Saint
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:18:15 PM

I imagine that is how my grandmother felt at the end of "Dallas" ...

1 up, 0 down

SirLoin of Beef
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:47:49 AM
Reply

I totally agree Ben. While I've been clear in my dislike in the endings in other places, I also had a lot of fun with the game (save for those endings, of course). I've tried not to rage about my distaste because I do appreciate the work they did in the trilogy.

0 up, 0 down

Rogueagent01
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 11:21:50 AM
Reply

I agree with the article as far as normal console games go, but I actually feel the opposite to games that require monthly subscriptions. Gamers that play MMOs I feel have the right to complain, suggest, b****, and even demand. Only because they are basically shareholders of said games. But when it comes to normal games that require just the one purchase and then the OPTION for DLC then, no I feel that complaining, suggesting, and a little b****ing is OK but absolutely no demands.

There have been a few DLCs that have crossed the line for me. Borderlands had one to give you a chest for your weapons, Fallout 3 had one to make the game open ended so that you could continue(after beating the main story). Both of those should have been FREE, call it entitlement if you like, but they were essential to the games. Sure they were still optional but they should have been part of the original game or at least offered for free.

The reason I feel that way about those 2 DLCs is one game was for all intensive purposes a "loot collecting game" -a chest to store your loot, WTF?? And the other because of its previous game(Oblivion) and the lack of homework done by gamers was expected to have an open end so that the gamers could essentially get a %100 completiton.

Those are the only 2 non pay-to-play games where I feel demanding would have been appropriate, and they were demanded, it is just that the developers still decided to charge for them which was not ok in my opinion.

2 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 12:38:00 PM

Well, MMOs are probably different, I suppose. But then again, I've never even classified them in my head as "video games," either. More like interactive, highly addictive chat rooms with virtual characters. ;)

No offense to anyone who plays them but let's face, it MMOs are a very different beast.

2 up, 1 down

Rogueagent01
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:35:16 PM

I agree completely they are different, but I felt they needed to be mentioned as they are still classified as games and no one else seemed to mention them. That is pretty much the only time I'll stand by a whiner and say "it is ok, continue with your crying'. I really feel they have the right(MMO players), whereas standard games need to be approached with a more subtle complaint system. I'm all for complaining as it pushes developers to think outside the box or even to improve on something that they didn't think needed improving on, but the demands are just outright rude.

I have never thought about telling a developer your ending sucks and you need to put out a new one ASAP and it better be free. I really do feel you on that side of the article, entitlement has truely become a big issue with the current generation of games. Though it has always been amongst us, it just never had the ability to be so in your face as it does now. This is definitely one of the biggest detractors of the internet.

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:42:48 PM

I had more fun with FFXI than most games out there. Great game, imo. But the monthly fees tied in with the never-ending struggle to improve and never ever be able to reach max, well... I had to call it quits someday.

It also got to the point where I didn't have chunks of time to commit... and that game really required you to play in groups. And if you only had time to solo... well, you couldn't do much. :(

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/12/2012 1:44:25 PM

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:23:35 PM

Oh Fetch, WKC2 lacks monthly fees and has great depth of play...just saying. ;)

1 up, 0 down

jimmyhandsome
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 11:33:13 AM
Reply

I don't think I've ever gotten to the point in a game where I've wanted to start a petition demanding the developer change something. That's for the die hards, I suppose.

DLC, while it annoys me somewhat, I've basically just accepted it. I rarely buy it, but if its a game I love to play MP for then I might. Cost of doing business I guess.

As Cloudou mentioned earlier, the internet has given a voice for people who like to complain. And thats about anything and everything. Twitter and the like have literally changed the way people gather to protest and bitch.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:16:06 PM

That voice, and disembodied entity of negativity has a name you know. It is called (I created this name) The Eye of Moron - also spelled The Eye of Mauron. It is of course a play on The Eye of Sauron from the Lord of the Rings.

3 up, 0 down

jimmyhandsome
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:34:18 PM

Ha!

0 up, 0 down

zork
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 1:28:51 PM
Reply

Really Ben
gamers should and just be quit when games they really like just get wrecked by Developers who are clueless, an example of that is Socom 4 or should it be not so Socom? and yes i agree there are times when gamers should tone it down but if they do not voice there views they wont be heard at all.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 2:26:06 PM
Reply

I think this comes down to something really simple. When I grew up the messages I got from parents and teachers was that if I worked hard and did well, I could achieve anything I set out to achieve. But, now the message I hear all to often from parents of the current and previous generation is that you can be whatever you want to be and have whatever you want to have and should not let anyone tell you otherwise. Kids are being told that they are entitled to have it all, that is how they are raised, that is how society re-enforces the message. Instead of believing from the get go that they have the opportunity to achieve greatness by working for it, they believe that they can achieve greatness simply by demanding it. I believe that I can have anything I want, as long as I am willing to work to get it, and so far it's working for me. Kids today believe that they can get whatever they want by shouting loudly enough and demanding that it be made so.

I believe that I am entitled to nothing more than an opportunity to work to make things happen, kids and younger generations than me believe that they are simply entitled to have the things I worked to get. After all, I have them, why shouldn't they? My answer of course is because I worked my ass off for what I have, and so should they.

8 up, 0 down

Lemon_Saint
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:14:13 PM
Reply

Wow. A friend of mine and I were just talking about this last week, (Wednesday evening, to be exact). We both went to the same high school, (I hope I don't get pegged now as "the old guy", but this was over a decade ago), and we both remembered how the school's free-lunch program was considered an embarrassment if you were on it. Flash forward to today, and my wife is a teacher in this same school district, where 97% of the kids now participate in this program. That wouldn't be so bad if it were not that these same kids actually MAKE FUN OF the kids who pay for their lunch .. like the kids who pay are being suckers for doing so.

On a different day last week, my wife and I were out with some friends, (one who was visiting from out of the country), and the foreign friend commented that he thought it was strange that no one in this country says thank you when he holds the door open for them. Or smile. Or even make eye contact. Just as he finished saying this, a waitress walked by and dropped a few knives off of her platter she was bussing from a table. The table across from us was a group of middle-aged business guys, and they laughed at her and applauded. I bent down to pick up the knives to hand them to her, and you know what she did? Absolutely nothing, save for rolling her eyes as I helped her with her mess.

A friend of mine is in an international music act. He was telling me at a show a few years ago that while they were at SXSW, tons of people in the audience were singing along to their songs. Problem was, the album had only just been released, and the SoundScan showed that only three hundred copies of their album had been sold in a 100 mile radius. One fan actually came up to him in a bar after the show asking for an autograph, and said, "Thanks man. I've downloaded all of your stuff"! … and he was completely oblivious that what he had said would be considered wrong.

These points illustrate nothing if not the total lack of community that is prevalent in our society today. I realize america is considered an "Individualistic" society, what with personal space and all, but it really has gotten out of hand. I cannot drive down the street anymore without someone walking in front of my car in the middle of a block and then staring me down, as if to say with their glare, "Go ahead. TRY to hit me".

Can we blame it on parenting, or schools, or t.v. though? I don't think so. When I was a kid, I had a recurring dream that I owned every Nintendo game and could play them whenever I wanted, (in this dream, every title was in a gold case like the Legend of Zelda was). Of course, this dream never came to fruition, but for millions of kids, (and adults), today, it is somewhat of a reality. Every old game system can be played on an emulator, the ROMS easily downloaded. With the advent of file sharing sites, every movie, piece of music, tv show, periodical, you name it can be had for free. No wonder people have a sense of entitlement. Everything is just handed to them, so why shouldn't they expect more, and more, and more?

Not that I am saying it's right to be. No far from it. When I walk into a supermarket, the last thing I want to hear is two clerks, while ringing out customers, talking loudly to each other about how drunk and blazed they were last night, and how he totally should have tapped that ass even though she passed out. I don't want to be waiting in line at a hotel to check in, the only hold-up being that the clerk working the desk is busy texting her bff. I especially don't understand how a manager of a McDonald's can out loud tell a sexist joke about "rotten pussy-meat" and it be okay with their corporate office. And I especially don't appreciate walking up to the counter of a used video game store with a find that is too good to be true, only to have the clerk inform me that, "The item is not for sale. Yeah, I'm gonna sell this'un on eBay".

To note, all of the above actually happened.

4 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:22:16 PM

Ah, but here's the thing. You say "With the advent of file sharing sites, every movie, piece of music, tv show, periodical, you name it can be had for free. No wonder people have a sense of entitlement. Everything is just handed to them, so why shouldn't they expect more, and more, and more?". Well, if that's the case why do I still pay for my stuff and not download it all? I am eminently able to download any and all of the things I want. And yet, I do not. The ability to do something and actually doing it are two different things. For a person without the entitlement mind set, the ability to download everything for free is irrelevant because they will purchase what they want. For the entitlement minded individual, they'll absolutely grab it all. So to me, the entitlement mind set may have helped make file sharing as big as it is, but I don't believe that the availability of file sharing sites has made people more entitlement minded. It has simply facilitated those with the mindset.

The mindset itself comes from parenting, education and upbringing.

Last edited by Highlander on 3/12/2012 3:22:47 PM

4 up, 0 down

Lemon_Saint
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:32:11 PM

I see your point, but wouldn't you agree that growing up with the availability undermines a parent's or teacher's behavior exercises? The lure is too great for most people, and I think it leads to the mindset of, "If I can have this, I can have everything".

I also purchase all of my media, (my extensive library of Old-school systems is testament to that), just so you know we are on the same page.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:44:51 PM

Oh, I think we are on the same page indeed. I just think that the fertile ground into which file sharing has been planted was created by poor parenting and education, and continued poor parenting and education just amplifies the allure of free downloads further with each passing moment.

2 up, 0 down

Rogueagent01
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 4:49:02 PM

That reminds me of the 90s and sites like Napster & WinAmp. I used to download a ton of music from those sites, however because of the way I was brought up and the fact that I was and still am involved with music, I used it as a demo site. I would download half or sometimes an entire album from a certain artist, now the difference between me and say the kids nowadays is I would then go and purchase the CD if I liked it. A lot of the kids now just throw it on an MP3 player and call it a day. I have a friend with a teenage daughter who uses those sites the same way I did, and she gets made fun of by some of her friends for actually buying the CDs later on, it boggles my mind to see this kind of treatment to a productive and responsible member of society.

I also forgot to mention that I no longer have a need to download any music like that, not now since I have Music Unlimited, for someone like me this is such a great service.

0 up, 0 down

goldentinny
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 10:15:12 PM

And it's better to shame children whose parents are poor and can't afford lunch?

I don't know if by "this country" you mean the US, but I am from Spain and actually I was astounded at how comparatively helpful and polite people are in the US when I first came here. In Spain people, especially older people, will cut you in line and not a single shit is given.

And it's not like sexist jokes are a new thing. They were even more prevalent and acceptable a few decades ago. Just watch any sitcom from the 50s.

Grass is always greener, and so on...

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:34:03 PM
Reply

Has anyone noticed that most, if not all the comments - not just here, but elsewhere as well - often fall into two groups: those made by people over a certain age and those made by people under a certain age...?

Maybe it's the crap-ass grammar and non-sentences younger individuals use when on the Internet that gives them away, but it just seems awfully clear. The older people understand exactly what I'm talking about and the younger people, brought up to believe in entitlement and corporate greed, just keep whining and acting hostile.

There's a trend, all right. As Lemon_Saint stated above, it's an ongoing trend that isn't exactly tough to spot. The combination of electronic deification and RAMPANT entitlement syndrome has led to a society that consists of quite possibly the most selfish humans to ever exist.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/12/2012 3:34:35 PM

4 up, 3 down

Highlander
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:43:05 PM

ROLFLMAO!

Ben, I totally misread this line;

"The combination of electronic deification and RAMPANT entitlement syndrome has led to a society that consists of quite possibly the most selfish humans to ever exist."

Replace 'deification' with 'defecation', and you will see what I mean. Oddly though, I don't think it really alters the point of the sentence.

2 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:45:51 PM

I know what you mean about certain types, but I'd be lying if I said that there weren't times I felt entitled to a decent ending after a heavy investment of both money, emotion, and time. And I can't feel guilty over feeling that either. Frustrated youths just rarely have the words to express themselves properly these days.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/12/2012 3:47:08 PM

1 up, 0 down

Lemon_Saint
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:47:28 PM

Ha Highlander! I thought the exact same thing, and you're right, the meaning was exactly the same to me.

2 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Tuesday, March 13, 2012 @ 1:23:21 AM

I guess I'm a very young selfish person simply because I disagreed with the framing of this article then?

Yeah, kinda not either of those things...

0 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, March 14, 2012 @ 9:23:34 AM

Youth is a state of mind, anyways.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 3:52:39 PM
Reply

This article is how I feel about people who are constantly sending food back at the restaurant. Just shut up and eat it.

3 up, 1 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 4:19:21 PM

That makes me think of the commercial where a guy says he didn't want mayo on his sandwich, and the waitress takes off the top piece of bread, scrapes it on the edge of the table, and puts it back on the sandwich.

4 up, 0 down

Rogueagent01
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 4:52:10 PM

That is a funny commercial.

1 up, 0 down

gray_eagle
Monday, March 12, 2012 @ 9:59:55 PM
Reply

i think we do have have a right to voice our opinion whether we liked
or disliked something in a game.
but too keep going on and on about it, i just want to say: STFU already,
if you don't like it, go play something else.

maby a select few do feel cheated over the ending(s) in ME3,
the rest of them are just seeking attention.

1 up, 0 down

seregil
Thursday, March 15, 2012 @ 10:34:35 AM
Reply

Forget entitlement. How about consistency? I loved the series and I really enjoyed the full game of Mass Effect 3. The ending was horrible. Why give me all the choices to be a Paragon or Renegade if the ending is going to be the same 3 choices no matter what kind of Shepherd I choose to play. You spend a lot of time developing the Shepherd's storyline with his/her companions, so why as the epilogue do you not get to see anything other than a pathetic little short with some of them on a planet. There is no explanation why they are in the ship flying at the time. In fact my character's LI was Liara, who was with me in the final set of fights. How did she escape the battles on Earth and end up on the Normandy? No explanation or epilogue to explain any of these things.

0 up, 0 down

saintaqua
Thursday, March 15, 2012 @ 12:29:13 PM
Reply

I agree. But really it should come as no surprise that the internet/gaming community are such whiners.
I love games but many gamers I meet are the opposite of me, whining brats who feel they are entitled to whatever they want.
And to be honest I do blame parenting too.
How many times have you been in a store and seen the way parents act at the checkout, demanding discounts and then screaming to see the manager when they don't get their way.

Our forefathers would be horrified at what a selfish country we've become.

I wish these kind of people would go "OCCUPY" another planet.

0 up, 0 down

saintaqua
Thursday, March 15, 2012 @ 12:32:26 PM
Reply

By the way, I have not played ME3 and have no idea what the complaints are about really.
I also do think we should let game developers know what we like and do not like.

But in the end we need to stop trying to be the "Cool Kid" and buy popular games just for the sake of doing so and instead speak with our wallets.
If FF or ME isn't your thing then don't buy it.

0 up, 0 down

riptide8
Thursday, March 15, 2012 @ 7:12:16 PM
Reply

Nice synopsis

0 up, 0 down

thatpumpingguy
Thursday, March 15, 2012 @ 8:55:30 PM
Reply

How about you shut-up! I will not apologize, it must be nice to make $500.000/year and get game comps. Fucking defend the game industry. What a tool, I hope you get used and left out to dry. For people who care about money and make concerted informed decisions,I want you to stand up when you have to pay $70 minimum for a game with little impact from previous decisions and takes your rewards away that u purchased. I challenge the author to pay me for the game. I dare you.

0 up, 0 down

DjStiv3
Thursday, March 15, 2012 @ 11:39:40 PM
Reply

i didnt like this article/or whatever it was at all
for the sake of gaming and just the world in general XD i will not comment my negative thoughts on it as they are quite obvious *thumbs up to the writer* O_o

0 up, 0 down

SS4
Friday, March 16, 2012 @ 8:38:18 AM
Reply

Nice article, i agree with you. I don't know if there is a correlation with the fact that the younger generation has been more spoiled by parenting. Looking at how kids were raise in the 70s and 80s and how it transition from too strict before the 70s and too loose after the 90s...

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