Levine: Nobody Will Be Happy If BioWare Does A New ME3 Ending

Underdog15
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:22:01 AM
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I disagree Ben.

You win this one.

YOU win.

1 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:24:06 AM

Nah, nobody wins. Unfortunately, Mass Effect is going to be tainted forever because of this, and that's just really sad.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/21/2012 10:24:32 AM

11 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:26:32 AM

Is the tainting justified, though? Is it a symptom of how even gamers don't see games as art and nothing more than entertainment? Does this have any implications on video games ever being a respected medium to the same extent as movies?

In that sense, yeah, everyone loses. Gamers are basically standing up saying that games are not artistic and are pure entertainment... which means they cannot be respected to the same extent that movies are.

That is actually pretty sad.

3 up, 0 down

DjEezzy
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:23:47 AM
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Ken nailed it right on the head with his statement. People just tend to never be satisfied with anything. When you see developers like DICE who change the game to the gamers liking, then see the same group of gamers start complaining about the changes they made, you start to see that its just a never ending cycle. It's really a shame to see to be honest. Entertainment or art, i don't think it really matters. These people are working 12 to 18 hour days to come out with these wonderful pieces of digital art/entertainment and i think they should have total control over what happens in the game. Whatever happened to a mans piece of junk is another mans treasure?!? You can't always please everybody and people need to realize that. I think some people need to get over themselves. Nuff said...

5 up, 1 down

H0TSHELLZ
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:50:54 PM

I agree.........I know i didnt get this Krazy when i finished Resistance 2 and was like.. WTF for real ?

WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:25:04 AM
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I've been saying all along this is a bad situation. If Bioware changes it, Levine is right no one will be happy. There will be more of a disconnection, and it won't feel natural. I'd much rather have a bad ending in a finished product that the developer envisioned, than a re-release of what is really just an add-on to get a "new" ending. It's not natural, that "new" ending was never part of the game and I bet everyone who plays it would get that feeling..

The thing is There are people who are fine with the ending and if they change it those people may be upset with the new one, so here we go round and round. I havnt finished it but regardless I know from past experiences and how I feel about original product, I don't want them to create a different ending.

And about art. Yea we can't ask the artist to change his or her vision. Just like for those wanting a new ending, obviously your opinion won't change.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 3/21/2012 10:29:14 AM

5 up, 0 down

Nerull
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 1:20:23 PM

I still haven't gotten to the ending but just throwing this out there for consideration: movies are considered art and they've been known to have the occassional alternate ending, director's cuts, and I'm not even going to touch the reboot trend.
I'm not saying Bioware has to change it, but sometimes hindsight is 20/20 and games are all always have 1000 aspects struggling to mesh in time for release.

5 up, 0 down

cthulhu_spawn
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:27:45 AM
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I believe that the main difference is that when a work of art/literature is completed and put out for public enjoyment and appreciation it is a finished, complete and total representation of the artist/authors expression of an internal idea or feeling or belief and as such the consumer can like it or lump it,and games should be the same.
I think most peoples main gripe is that in this dlc heavy enviroment, no-one actually believes that the product playing on their HDTV is in fact the designers finished, complete and heart-felt vision of what they wanted to show and share with people, but more a springboard for a raft of over-priced dlc.
If, as in this case, mass effect 3 was released as a full and standalone ending to a much loved game franchise, with no dlc to follow then people would be acting alot differently. The fact that the company itself have told us 'that this is not the end of shepard' leads me to believe that the idea of entitled fans bitching falls flat as they obviously haven't finished with, or entirely represented their vision so they are playing a canny marketing campaign.
I intend to buy and enjoy the game whatever the endings are like or whether more are to follow.

11 up, 0 down

Comic Shaman
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:41:56 AM

You make a very good point. Bioware bears a great deal of responsibility for the way this has all gone, not just for making a very unpopular ending, but for the precedent they've established with past DLC. Much of the DLC they added to Mass Effect 2 was integral to the story, not just "side mission" stuff. If you didn't download the last one, for instance, you wouldn't have much context for understanding why Shepard was in the position she was in as Mass Effect 3 began.

So they've set up their games as "incomplete" upon release. That's why this falls into a grey area, making it different from (for example) a complete novel where people didn't like the ending.

Not saying that I disagree with Levine here... I think a complete ending rewrite won't make anyone happy in the long run.

5 up, 0 down

bigrailer19
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:50:14 AM

I see where you're coming from. You make a good point. But I would say that in this case in particular, regardless of if Bioware releases future DLC, they did complete the main story how they visioned it ending. Bioware had a story and they told it. That's, that, we shouldn't say anymore about it. If Bioware were to re-create the ending then yes, I would agree they no longer have lived up to those standards and not only changed what they wanted to tell, but have lowered the level on which we are basing this argument. Is it art, or entertainment? At that point it would be entertainment, as they are changing it based on entertainment purposes.

But DLC is different. It doesn't change the main story in most all cases I've experienced. It adds to the story that's already told in some ways, exploring different areas. Which I'll admit sometimes disagree with, if it at all touches on the main stories plot. For example, the Uncharted games clearly are done at each games ending. I would hate if ND spent the time and resources adding to that game in the way of DLC, because they already told that story, its concluded in my eyes. If you're going to spend that time adding on, why not just create a whole new adventure and story? But for a game like Skyrim that ha a main story but also a ton of sub stories, DLC is perfect. Yes there is a main story but it's the adventure and open world that keeps a game like that engaging, not a linear, story arch.

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cthulhu_spawn
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:53:56 AM

Perhaps i'm just a cynical old man, but i wouldn't be at all surprised if multiple endings with staggered releases were already planned and an integral part of bioware's strategy. If that's the case it was a risky strategy and has been proven so now.
The main problem is as Levine alludes to. No matter what new endings, dlc etc are now released, it will be seen as the developer giving in to public demand and a loss of their integrity as a result. This will give rise to the 'entitled moaning and whining' that ben has made reference to before, as the average internet idiot will believe that it was their vocal admonition, rather than the developers intent that gave rise to the new stuff which will open the door to loads more of this nonsense in the future of people believing they can shape the world to their view rather the ideas of talented developers who don't want the hassle of defending the stories they want to tell in the way they want to tell them

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cthulhu_spawn
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:07:57 AM

Just read on beefjack.com that bioware have announced they are giving in to public demand and starting work on new endings.

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bigrailer19
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:12:32 AM

Can't disagree with you there. I think anything released for ME3 at this point, would not be good, for themseleves or the industry. It may benefit from a financial point, but you pointed out integrity. I also believe it will be seen as giving in. They are in a tough spot now. And it's all because they do what they do for the fans, and look where the "fans" have put them.

1 up, 0 down

xenris
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:31:32 AM

I agree with cthulu and comic. The ending to this doesn't FEEL complete. Not only that but we have seen with ME2 that the DLC they added was integral to the story.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview?pli=1&sle=true

In fact ME3 assumes you have played all of the ME2 DLC. Not to mention the Arrival DLC makes the whole collector story arc in ME2 irrelevant. All that aside it REALLY feels like this is a planned DLC move.

This doc shows how the ending makes no sense. My problem is when you pay attention to the ending, you see that it is either the worst writing in the history of gaming or a set up dream sequence. Its a sad day when fans hope that it is a dream sequence :P

I actually believe it is a dream sequence, and we will get DLC to show what actually happens to shepard after the lazer blast. If you get the good ending and see the extra cutscene the dream sequence starts making more sense.

Anyway THAT is the problem with this. It is just enough complete for people to get the illusion of a finished product, but if you take some time and look at it more critically, you can kind of tell that it doesn't feel finished.

I dont think they should rewrite the ending and I wish they didn't make any DLC but I have a strong feeling they will, and its going to complete the story. Although they might be wary of doing that seeing as how much backlash this whole thing has caused.

7 up, 0 down

Temjin001
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 1:14:23 PM

I can't have a good opinion until I've played and finished ME3. But most respected game players I know who have finished it, agree that the ending has problems, not so much in expression but in quality. It isn't really a vision concern it would seem.. it's a crappiness one. Crappiness in that this could be a marketing stunt to sap players of thier money from DLC. Either way, this whole think just stinks because of how many theories can exist over the debacle. Ultimately, one way or another, it's fairly apparant, Bioware dropped the ball hardcore. I have little doubt that if the ending was controversial but well executed things would not have escalated as they have. I'm sure there'd be whiners, there always are, But seeing that intelligent people have played it and agree it's poor quality, Bioware should own up and finish their game if you ask me. I really don't see it much different than patching a flaws in game design. anyway, I'm ready to move on with this issue... and hopefully someone presuades Levine that non-interactive cutscenes are okay in video games ;)

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PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 10:46:38 AM
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I don't care personally because I never got into the Mass Effect series, but filmmakers change their endings all the time due to audience feedback. That's why they do screeners. Usually it ends up sucking and watering-down the filmmakers vision, but the point is this is done in other 'artistic' mediums, as well.

Art (or entertainment) is watered-down for mass consumption all the time (as expected when huge corporations are the primary source for 'art' as in our society), so this doesn't set some 'dangerous precedent'.

2 up, 1 down

cthulhu_spawn
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:04:12 AM

That's a good point and one i wholeheartedly understand, screeners however, do tend to be to a select audience, and the feedback recieved and is then acted on before the said movie goes out to the masses for commercial gain.
Though you only have to look at how many directors cuts, extended editions, special editions, anniversary editions etc will be released at some point in the future to realize that you are 100% right. This is not limited to the gaming industry and most people understand the way the world works.
Since the prevalence of the net every moron with a keyboard and a connection can go online wrongly believing that just because lots can hear their view it somehow carries more weight, doesn't make their view right or valid

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PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:05:09 AM

BTW- I'm not saying I think they should change it or not, like I said I haven't played the games so I hold no opinion.

Sometimes feedback can improve upon an artists vision (even in the artists opinion).

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bigrailer19
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:15:47 AM

That's the whole point. They had a vision for this game, it is now done. The best thing Bioware - the artist in this case - can do now is take this feedback and use it for future projects, which hopefully isn't a new ending. Feedback is a great tool for growth. But that's what it should e used for, not to change an artists completed work.

1 up, 0 down

telly
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:16:27 AM

That's actually a really good point, but that only takes a very small bit of the sting out of this. Still feel so sorry for the team that worked so hard and delivered this stellar game. And make no mistake -- Mass Effect 3 is a f**king AWESOME game. These should be the happiest days of the team members' professional lives, instead they have to deal with this s**t.

3 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:17:46 AM

I disagree that filmmakers change their endings "all the time". That rarely happens. And certainly not with the best of the best.

The best thing Bioware should do, imo, is to defend what they've done. Provide further insight to their endings that help further elaborate on the characters that the audience may have overlooked.

Lots of the best pieces of art actually -require- some further knowledge on the topic at hand to full understand the literature. Why not support what they've already done? That would be the best direction.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/21/2012 11:19:30 AM

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 2:17:17 PM

actually they shoot multiple endings and go with the best one.

1 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 6:24:27 PM

That's not exactly the same thing though, is it.

If it were, his point would be even further off the mark. Unless, of course, I missed something and ME3 hasn't released yet.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/21/2012 6:27:05 PM

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telly
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:13:44 AM
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I have steered clear of this topic because I've been playing through the game, loving nearly all of it, and wondering what the hell everyone is bitching so much about. Word has just come out that BioWare WILL change the ending now, and Ken Levine was right. This is sad. I really hope whatever DLC content BioWare comes up with doesn't compromise the ending, but honestly, I have a bad feeling that no matter what they come up with no one is going to be happy. Ben is so, so right about this: this is a terrible precedent we're setting. I fear for the future of games when an astoundingly loud and furious portion of the population can verbally abuse artists so brutally they are forced to alter their vision or else face dire, long-term economic consequences. Mass Effect die hards who caused this, you should be ashamed.

3 up, 2 down

Oxvial
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:15:45 AM
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After watching the ending I think it was one of the worst ever.lol and this franchise best appeal is the history? they ruined their franchise and like it was said now not all gonna be happy if they change it.

So much hype for the supposed franchise that destroys all the PS3 ones.

Last edited by Oxvial on 3/21/2012 11:18:46 AM

2 up, 4 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:16:35 PM

Was it worse than Rage? Couldn't possible be worse than Rage's ending.

3 up, 0 down

Oxvial
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:30:38 PM

Not sure about Rage ending but ME introduces a new character at last minute he explains the reapers stuff in a :facepalm: worthy way and force you too select a crap resolution no matter what your decisions were on the three games.

2 up, 2 down

JDC80
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:26:39 AM
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I might get thumbs down but what's the deal with the ending? I got the game(haven't played it yet trying to get every upgrade to make sure everyone makes it out alive in the final mission in Mass Effect 2). I usually don't get upset with endings unless they don't make sense or it's done half ass.

Last edited by JDC80 on 3/21/2012 11:27:58 AM

2 up, 0 down

xenris
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:58:26 AM

If you pay attention to it, it doesn't make a lick of sense. The last 30 or so minutes are complete nonsense. If your even a slightly critical or logical thinker you will start noticing a lot of oddities.

I wont spoil it but once your done with it you can look up some blogs people have with the "problems" with it.

3 up, 0 down

Zen_Zarab
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 11:57:31 AM
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Fallout 3: Broken Steel anyone?

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Teddie9
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 4:34:18 PM

yeaaah... but without Broken Steel Fallout 3's ending is definitive about what happened. That expansion was there for people who wanted more (and so it created more instead of leaving parts unclear in the main games ending) - if you didn't everyting was still tied off.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:20:04 PM
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And when BioWare releases the multiple endings and charges for them, people will freak out again. Or when they release them for free and they're not what the fans wanted, the fans will freak out again. Or when they release them for free and they're exactly what the fans wanted, the fans will freak out because BioWare screwed up by not initially putting them in the game.

I'm sorry, but there's no way out of this. Levine is absolutely 100% correct, because he knows there's no way of appeasing the fans now. They think they're entitled to their indignation and hatred and BioWare will never be able to fix it. So I say, just let it go. BOTH sides...let it...GO.

8 up, 1 down

telly
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:31:36 PM

I really hope BioWare finds a way to diffuse the situation. Such a great game, a great game company, and you just know there are fans out there that have already made up their minds and are going to never, ever let this go no matter how much BioWare tries to appease them or how much time passes.

1 up, 0 down

daus26
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 1:00:39 PM

Agreed, and really the whole DLC thing is a big part of the problem. Gamers now can't have the comfort of knowing that developers have put all their hard work and soul up to the retail release of their game.

Knowing Bioware's past, don't they release DLC for the series anyway, that's actually an important part to the story? It's another thing I wonder about because I thought the fans possibly could've waited till some kind of DLC annoucement before taking it hard to the developers. Then again, that's a practice many people don't have a fond of either.

Best way now is certainly for both sides to move on.

3 up, 0 down

daus26
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:22:09 PM
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So was this ending more in the line of nonsense, or incomplete?

I thought it was just a matter of filling in plot holes, not so much as to "changing" the ending. To me it sounds like gamers wants answers more so than a different ending, if that makes sense. Perhaps I need to see it myself.

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xenris
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 1:25:12 PM

The ending so very nonsensical when you break it down. Even while I was playing it I was asking questions and wondering how certain things were happening when dialogue that happened not more than 5 minutes ago contradicted what I was experiencing.

*********Potential Spoilers*****************

So yeah gamers just want questions answered because it literally didn't actually end Shepards journey. This is blatantly obvious when you get the secret "best" ending.

No matter how you look at the ending, it wasn't the best way to end the series. UNLESS they planned to expand on the ending, which after piecing together the ending and the secret ending, its pretty obvious that the ending is so nonsensical to serve as an easy place to retcon a more proper ending. IE the ending might have been a dream or something similar that fits with the ME universe *hint hint*.

I don't want to spoil the story if you haven't played it though. I hope that hasn't ruined anything for you.

4 up, 0 down

karneli lll
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:22:36 PM
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Its sad especially when online retailers like Amazon are offering refunds for people who bought Mass Effect 3. Although...if so many people are complaining then there has to be something wrong right?

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daus26
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:47:15 PM

That's also another point. When something is of mass proportion, it's usually (if not, definitely) worth noting. Whether it's a bad thing or not is another thing though.

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daus26
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 12:44:07 PM
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Well, if they do plan to have DLC for ME3, like they did with ME2 (which to some of you were important to the main story), now we won't know for sure if it was to their plan, or adjusted to the fan's suggestions.

Bottom line, in this DLC heavy era and Bioware's past actions, can you blame the gamers for suspecting a foul play on a game's ending? By foul play, I meant about the ending being intentionally incomplete for the sole purpose of future DLC content for some extra $$$.

Other than that, I definitely agree that an artist's vision should never be forced to change by its peers, but only inspired at best. The only thing I don't agree is developer's putting half-arse on their retail release game, so they could rake in some extra bucks along the way with DLC. An artist certainly shouldn't have to change his/her vision by the demands of its fans, but they should give it everything they have on a product. I'm not saying that's what they did with ME3, but I'm just speaking about DLC practices in general this generation.

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xenris
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 1:32:33 PM
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News update. Bioware has confirmed on their forums that they will release new content to provide added closure.

I saw this coming, and to people who think its terrible that they "caved" they really didn't. This was most likely planned, and pretty obvious if you pieced together the ending and best hidden ending thing. Its obvious that ME3 didn't end when the credits rolled, and even more obvious that Shepards tale wasn't over. However this only works if you get the BEST ending, which is most likely the canon ending.

Annnnd if it wasn't all planned than bioware is an amazing developer for listening to their fans, and actually acknowledging that the ending was poorly written and explained.

You have to be very humble to admit you messed up and this shows that Bioware cares and doesn't want to lose its fans.

However I still maintain that this was part of the planned DLC anyway. At least thats what I want to believe, because I can't believe that bioware would intentionally write some a FACTUALLY bad ending full of plot holes and nonsensical sequences.

3 up, 1 down

Pandacastro
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 2:00:22 PM

I really hope they just modify the ending so it doesn't seem rush or better yet somehow get the same endings but shepard never leaving the room and starchild coming out of nowhere.

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JLB1
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 1:57:49 PM
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While this whole thing is putting me off, at some point, I will purchase the game to see what the fuss is all about. Especially since I want to ride this out till the end. I'd give my two cents on the whole matter, but seeing as how I didn't finish, let alone play, the damn game, my opinion won't hold much weight.

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Temjin001
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 2:18:37 PM

Isn't that great that people buy games to see what the fuss is about?
Gamers can be cool like that.
Really, how many people tried Duke Nukem just to see how bad it was?

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JLB1
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 2:58:07 PM

Well, I played ME2 and loved it, so it's not like I'll be going into the game not knowing what's what. Also, all this fuss isn't the main reason why I'll be getting the game, like I said, I want to ride it out to the end. But, I get what you mean.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 2:16:54 PM
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I dunno man, if it wasn't for fan pressure Sherlock Holmes would have been dead halfway through his career.

But I agree if Bioware changes things it changes the dynamic of how fans and game devs interact, I agree that nobody would be happy in the end.

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Temjin001
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 2:39:22 PM

I dunno, doesn't that qualify as a false dichotomy, World?

...anyway, if I do play this and see that the execution of the ending was fine, bizarre as it may be, I'll support Bioware in telling fans, "that's how it is, like it or suck it"
but if this ends up being ..uhh, well, we ran out of disc space for the 360 version, and we didn't want to add another disc... hmm, well.. I could actually go on and on.

...hehe I like how we're these PSXe wannabe philopshers

I wanna be Temjim'ocrates
You can be Aristot-endswithme
Ben can be Bento
okay ran out of nicknames =p
Excelsior can be .. Thrasymachus =p
Highlander can be Mencius (or Nietzche.. he's hardcore like that)
Jawkney is John Locke.. being all conservative and all

okay, I'm having too much fun with this ;)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 3:24:54 PM

Insane as it sounds I kind of like Heraclitus, I'll be HeraWorldUs :)

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jimmyhandsome
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 2:38:27 PM
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This reminds me of when Sucker Punch caved in and changed Cole's appearance for inFamous 2 after the redesign didn't go over well with fans. Even though I thought the new Cole looked too much like Nathan Drake for no reason whatsoever, I didn't like the fact that Sucker Punch caved in and changed him back. I do think that the developers have a certain responsibility to their audience, but they should never ever be dictacted by their audience.

And just as a disclaimer, I have never played the Mass Effect games (more than a couple of demos) so I don't know the story well or how bad the ending was.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 3:04:36 PM

Very different. Just like screening for movies is different. That's all done BEFORE the product is finished and written in stone. If the artists choose to bring it to their intended audiences beforehand for the express purpose of feedback, they can do so.

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jimmyhandsome
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 4:18:39 PM

True, it was before the product was finished. They still had to change it because of fan outcry of how THE PEOPLE thought the product should look like.

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Comic Shaman
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 5:09:20 PM

And that's where Bioware has muddied the waters with the way they handled DLC for Mass Effect. When do we call it "finished?" Because Mass Effect 2 added some pretty significant chapters after the original game was released.

None of those new chapters changed what had gone before, and that's a significant line to cross. So I think that the fans who are asking for changed endings for Mass Effect 3 are not going to get what they want.

But what about additional material that provides more clarity? I think that's the direction they're heading with the new "content initiatives" they announced today.

4 up, 0 down

Laguna
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 4:31:42 PM
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Perhaps Mass Effect 3's ending was just so awful that it needed to be changed?

I personally think its hard to top the awful ending that was Final Fantasy XIII.

But i never asked for a different ending. Instead we got a sequel with an crappier ending.

Personally, I think gamers shouldn't have to worry about endings because there is always another game planned more or less.

If you hate ME3 ending, just hope ME4 ending is better.

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The CEO
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 4:45:12 PM
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As long as it is free I see no problem with it. If they charge for it though you can bet it will become standard practice. We will be flooded with unfinished games requiring DLC for closure. Bioware should just slap this on the end http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG4EyfXOTJ4

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Dotaownz
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 4:48:42 PM
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As I said before I don't see any problem with fans asking for a change to the ending and if the developer wants to change it they can. With that said I do see somewhat of a problem with outright demanding a new ending as the biggest movement is doing as they even have demand a better ending to Mass Effect 3 on their Facebook page.

I have heard both Fallout 3 and one of the Prince of Persia games have had their endings changed/extended through DLC but those did not blow up like this. I guess this just has way more people behind it?

I do not see anything wrong with asking for a new ending because it would be their (the artists) choice if they want to change it but I will feel pretty bad for them if EA forces them to change it. If they don't change it sure they will lose costumers but the ending in many opinions was so bad they would have lost many customers anyways.

The ending of Mass Effect 3 is so disappointing because not only is it just a bad ending in general but because it was a bad ending to an amazing trilogy which made it harder to swallow. But as I said before whether or not they decide to change it I will still be looking forward to buying future Bioware games as everything besides the last 20 minutes of Mass Effect was amazing and I am willing to give a second chance. However, if their next series also concludes with a horrible ending I will possible passing on future Bioware games as I already have a backlog and no time to be playing games that have endings that ruin the series.

Last edited by Dotaownz on 3/21/2012 4:49:28 PM

2 up, 0 down

sha4dowknight05
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 5:20:37 PM
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WHy are people being so immauture. If the story ends that way leave it alone.

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xenris
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 5:27:17 PM
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"As mass effect 3 is the end\ of the planned trilogy, developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge yet also converge into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into WILDY different conclusions based on the players actions in the first two chapters." Casey Hudson

"We wouldnt do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns as your shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? I can't say more than that..." Mike Gamble

"its not even in any was like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are and say you got A B or C." Casey Hudson

That last one is a laugh in a half, as the ending literally is an A B C choice deus ex rip off.
Bioware went on record saying they wouldn't pull a lost and create more questions with their ending than answers.

They also said everything will be given answers too. This was not achieved, there are countless questions that were not even close to addressed.

There was almost no closure, yes things were answered in the game, but things that got brought up in ME3 didn't all get closure. What happens to your squad, did the krogans begin to thrive again, how about the quarians? Those are just two of many examples.

THIS is why people are doing what they are doing and demanded satisfaction.

1 up, 0 down

JackDillinger89
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 6:14:26 PM
Reply

Hideo Kojima HIMSELF stated he himself feels games are NOT art. If games are indeed art then MW3 is art as well? Games like flower may have some artistic qualities. But gaming as a whole unfortunately yes it is really only entertainment nothing else. This whole comparison to games and art is a little extreme. Dare say Hideo san himself is wrong The godfather of metal gear.

4 up, 0 down

ZettaiSeigi
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 7:44:09 PM
Reply

I have finally finished Mass Effect 3 and I could now finally share my thoughts on it. I am not as bothered by the ending as other fans are. At least not enough for me to sign a petition demanding that Bioware makes a new ending. The conclusion is fine with me.

But like what others said, it just feels incomplete and there are few bits that doesn't make sense. Sure, we know whether Shepard lives or dies, but how about the other characters we cared about in the games? Why is the Normandy in a Mass Relay?

Personally, I'd like a bit more closure to the series. Bioware made a universe that feels alive and it would be great if we know what happens to everyone after the events in ME3. That said, I still love the game and I would continue playing it.

Just my two cents worth.

1 up, 1 down

JackDillinger89
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 8:17:30 PM
Reply

With that being said i recently beat me3 while i can understand why people are pissed it still is a great game. I just feel ripped off i buy the dlc. Not really worth the extra charge but if anyone decides to buy it do get it early on as taking javik along on every mission LOTS are revealed about prothean history which is why i felt ripped off since its obviously meant to be a part of the standard me3 experience. And is quite nessesary if anyone wants to know EXACTLY what happen to them (protheans)

1 up, 0 down

Coffeya
Wednesday, March 21, 2012 @ 8:34:11 PM
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Why do video games have to be either or? I highly believe they are artwork and entertainment.

1 up, 0 down

Gamer46
Thursday, March 22, 2012 @ 3:55:59 AM
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Really pathetic... At a time we should all be celebrating the conclusion of one of the great trilogies of this gen we're all pissed off all because Bioware decided to choose EA and DLC over the loyal fans who helped make them a success to begin with by purchasing their products. It's too late for Bioware, but hopefully other companies take notice of this and don't give into crap companies like EA and don't set up their games to get the 'real' ending through DLC.

1 up, 2 down

___________
Thursday, March 22, 2012 @ 3:59:53 AM
Reply

hes right, its just not the same if they generate endings fans have come up with.
what needs to be done is people forget about ME3, bioware moves onto ME4 and it rights the wrongs set in this.
i really want to see a prequel series starting from the beginning the creators who created the crucible and handed it down to the protheans.
start at the beginning where it was created, and end where the protheans got wiped out.

sad thing is that bioware has created such a beautiful beloved fantasy.
something people have been waiting years to see it conclude.
and now its finally concluded and they have taken a massive dump on it!
its like growing the finest grapes possible, aging them possible spending 20 years aging it in the purest oak barrel.
then its ready, fit for a king, they serve it and just for that extra something mix it with donkey piss.
way to go destroy what was such a fantastic series bioware!

2 up, 0 down

JackC8
Thursday, March 22, 2012 @ 8:37:39 AM
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Well of course you can't go back and do a different ending now that everybody's already been disappointed with the first one LOL.

This whole thing is silly. It's the most common thing in the world for the story of a game to be criticized (or praised). It happens ALL the time. Yet when it comes to Bioware, it's an assault against their artistic integrity? What incredible hubris.

2 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 22, 2012 @ 6:14:16 PM

It's even funnier when people refuse to get the point, just to mock others.

Nobody EVER said criticism shouldn't exist. Certainly not me. If you choose to ignore the bigger issue, that's your business.

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Gamer46
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 10:49:15 PM

Bioware deserves to have its integrity called into question. They came up with a crap ending at the expense of gamers so they could sell bs with post-game DLC. This isn't the great company it used to be pre-EA buyout. It's a joke now.

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Lathon
Thursday, March 22, 2012 @ 10:29:50 PM
Reply

It's funny.

I have played through ME1 to ME3 and I was quite happy with the ending. In my opinion they did not ruin the ME-series. It is not cut and paste from a Hollywood template, and I think that is, sadly, what is bother people the most.

The scale and context of the game would make a traditional ending more or less absurd. Yes, there are a few things in the final minutes that are a bit weird, and I know most people want more closure on a few issues. But you know what? I can live with that. I was in awe after completing this series. It is a grand work, and felt the ending in context of the game, the conflict and the stakes at hand.

I believe Levine is correct. No good will come out if Bioware caves in and changes the ending.

And a note for all the players that haven't played the game, or haven't finished it. Do you really believe that Bioware would create an ending that all of a sudden totally destroyed what they built up until that moment? These are skilled people fullfilling a vision. From a lot of comments, not on this site though, I get the feeling that a lot of the critisism comes from people that likes to skip the dialogue and skip to the action.

I have seen tons of hate from people that have looked at the endings on Youtube and "won't buy the game with a crappy ending like that". I have seen a lot of hate posts that starts with "I haven't played the game but..." or "I haven't finished the game..." or "I was playing ME2, but now...". I don't understand how these people think.

The game is Shepards journey, and ours. I don't want to spoil things, but there are a pieces of closure both on a "personal" level, and on a more grand scale out there that you encounter in more or less obvious ways as the game progresses. People are angry because they did not include these in the cutscenes, and spell out exactly what happened to this and that. Well, that is Biowares call.

/L

0 up, 1 down

unnavigated
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 5:09:16 AM
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ME3 doesn't really appeal to me, but this reminds me of Red Dead Redemptions - such an amazing game, and then, I thought, it took such a left turn at the last (and completely unnecessary) segment that it certainly spoiled the overall experience for me.

I hope they don't pull something similar with the AC franchise...!

1 up, 0 down

Fojos
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 10:32:32 AM
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I'm really ashamed being part of the "gaming community" at times like these. Might be the most spoiled group in the world.

0 up, 1 down

voltron2010
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 11:48:28 AM

Yes, i have played the game several times now. all of them. Numerous times. Tried all three colorful endings. Personally, I too, think they are all awful but that is NOT what has alot of people angey. We were lied to. YES LIED TO. All through the series we were told that choices would matter in mass effect 3. Who to save , who to let die. What to keep, what to destroy. Even for the first 30 hours of Mass Effect 3 choices had an effect. Then you get to the end and find out that except for the most minor of differences NOT ONE choice really had an effect on the outcome. Nothing you worked for mattered. again, I don't care for the endings chosen, but the false premise of choices making a difference makes me a little ? angry.

1 up, 0 down

pillz81
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 12:21:10 PM

With all the critiques on the endings, a more fitting title or subtitle for Mass Effect 3 would be, "The Hurricane": exciting at first then it ends in disaster.

0 up, 0 down

starwolf1001
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 12:39:35 PM
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I once wrote a short play.
My teacher thought it would be a good idea to have the other students in class act it out.
He thought it would be a good idea to film it.
He thought it would be a good idea for me to direct it.

I wrote it, I directed it, but with everyone's input in it it DID NOT turn out the way I wanted it.

We may create but that does not mean everyone else sees it the same as we do.

btw I didn't like the way ME3 ended

0 up, 0 down

Jacius Ceed
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 5:56:39 PM
Reply

What Mr. Levine says is foolish.
He is making assumptions just like everyone else about the ending.

Remember it's not just one ending, depending on the choice you make, although Bioware leaves it up to your imagination, you change the galaxy. Heck you may not even save earth if you didn't get enough support.(war assets)
So anyone who plays the game more than once and does things differently is getting a different ending anyway. It changes the experience and you will only keep one ending in your mind as being the "canon" ending.

Also it should be changed by Bioware, as their decision, IF the message they were trying to convey failed to understood. They would still have their artistic integrity. As it would still be their creation, just like in a book it would be a change to the structure of a paragraph with a word change or two. Same story just a tweak to how it is told/delivered.

OR

Change it on the grounds that the ending was the same a Deus Ex. They don't really show you the consequence of your decision. It's an illusion of choice.

The ending can be summed up thusly, you pick a color then walk down a path, explosion of chosen color, everyone on earth lives or dies, ships escaping crash lands with crew suddenly appearing when they should be dead or injured on earth, don't explain anything, fade to black, unknown just forward in time, dialogue that tells you nothing, fade to black, go buy dlc message, end.

If that really is the ending and they were not planning on doing something like the indoctrination theory or hallucination or something else, then they really dropped the ball on quality. It felt rushed and lacking.
If it is one of the previously mentioned theories then Bioware could make a masterpiece of an ending preceded with a "we got you guys so good" moment in our society.
Which if it is, then they would be considered master artists and this whole art integrity vs whiney entitled paying customers that were hyped up thing could end and everyone will either be left embarrassed and shut up or will make another scene.

1 up, 0 down

Jacius Ceed
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 6:12:52 PM

Oh and I forgot to say something about Mr. Paul Barnett's comment about the Harry Potter ending.

The problem that everyone that I talked with and I had with the last Harry Potter book was not the ending. It was the epilogue, that short bit after a 19 year jump felt too short. All we knew was that they all had kids and were older. We knew they were happy and that's about it.
I believe that if we had gotten a little bit more there would have been a lot less people demanding another book. Another book in the world of HP would be nice but is not needed.

Last edited by Jacius Ceed on 3/23/2012 6:14:24 PM

1 up, 0 down

SS4
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 6:54:07 PM
Reply

I blame CoD 29 :P

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sinisterurge
Friday, March 23, 2012 @ 7:43:32 PM
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I know this is not going to be a popular opinion but here goes. When you are creating a specific kind of art. The kind of art where you are continually saying that your fan base is going to love your art. You are than obligated to give your fan base what they are expecting. When you say this is a trilogy and know that your fans have invested time energy and emotion into your franchise. You give them a satisfying end. you wrap it up in that nice little bow.keeping the connoisseur of your art pleased will keep them coming back to buy more.I am an unhappy art buyer and am totally soured on this franchise ( My favorite by the way).As far as games being art or entertainment I feel you get a bit of both worlds like in cinema.

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thatpumpingguy
Saturday, March 24, 2012 @ 1:46:11 AM
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I just wanted to say that the guy who wrote this article needs to check his meds.
It isn't logical what he is saying if you really know the issue. Then you have read the BBB complaint in which an upper at bioware says things about the ending that aren't true (including featuring the Rachni). That is deliberately lying and misleading people. An artist can do that and you know what? I have seen people protesting outside Barnes and Noble because the "art books" contained pornography. I am not saying he is stupid just maybe stupid on that day.

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Levine: Nobody Will Be Happy If BioWare Does A New ME3 Ending

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