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Cliff Bleszinski: On-Disc DLC An "Unfortunate Reality"

Capcom recently came under fire for saying content locked on the disc is basically the same as downloadable content, which incited the ire of many fans.

But according to Epic Games design boss Cliff Bleszinski says it's just an "unfortunate reality" of the industry. In speaking to GameSpot on the subject, CliffyB said gamers should probably just accept this as part of the gaming industry and the development process.

"When you're making a game, and you're getting into a ship cycle, there's often three or four months where the game is basically done. And you have an idle team that needs to be working on things. And often for compatibility issues, [on] day one, some of that content does need to be on-disc. It's an ugly truth of the gaming industry. I'm not the biggest fan of having to do it, but it is one of the unfortunate realities."

The solution? Bleszinski suggests that if games were distributed digitally, this wouldn't be an issue. "If we can't get to fully downloadable games, then you can just buy a $30 horror game and just have it, and that stuff will thankfully go away." Of course, the hardcore gamers aren't too interested in seeing physical media disappear so maybe they need another solution. Either that, or we'll just have to live with on-disc "dlc."

Tags: dlc, on disc dlc, cliffyb, cliff bleszinski, gaming industry

4/9/2012 9:18:10 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (37 posts)

FM23
Monday, April 09, 2012 @ 11:30:17 PM
Reply

All I can say is f*ck dlc...now game expansions are another story. Bring it on Skyrim.

Agree with this comment 6 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Phoenix
Monday, April 09, 2012 @ 11:56:28 PM
Reply

Wow... havent had a good laugh for a while, thanks for that.


It's really simple, they just do it to nickle and dime the consumer to DEATH with dlc, and it's not just capcom, it's almost every dev/publisher these days.


What really gets me going, is that bit about if there wasnt a physical copy it would stop, yeah sure there wouldnt be any on disc locked content beacause there isnt a disc, but you can bet ur ass there would sure as hell would be more day 1 DLC.

Agree with this comment 12 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

godsman
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 12:00:00 AM

I am still upset that Assassin's Creed 2 is missing those chapters inbetween which became DLC. I assume the AC3 will be the same.

Agree with this comment 7 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

Gabriel013
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 1:03:23 AM

What did they used to do before we had dlc?

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Crabba
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 4:06:16 AM

What did they used to do before we had dlc?

Easy, the content came so called 'free' with the game you paid good money for, but that's way too simple. Just like before DLC developers sometimes released new content free as well, that's of course gone now too...

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Fane1024
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 7:49:48 PM

Before DLC, the content never got completed. It got cut because the team couldn't finish it before their deadline.

@godsman

Only one of the missing chapters was any good and neither really "mattered" to the story. IMO.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 4/10/2012 7:52:23 PM

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Crabba
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 @ 4:45:51 AM

Fane1024, I guess that's why they were able to put it on the disc, because they didn't have time to finish it before the deadline...

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Fane1024
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 5:22:41 AM

1. I was speaking generally, not in relation to this specific instance, as the question implies.
2. The deadlines for "game" and DLC to be submitted for QA would be different.
3. In this instance, good point.

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godsman
Monday, April 09, 2012 @ 11:57:50 PM
Reply

I agree that the developers need to start working on the DLC before the game ships. Otherwise there will be a lag between the game and DLC release dates. Usually gamers lose interest in a game in 2-4 months. Smaller games cannot afford to wait 4 months to start working on DLC.

DLC characters in Capcom's fighting games especially needs to be designed in the game development phase. There are just too many kinks and balancing in character strengths involved. Our frustrations are why make the characters the DLC? why not just make clothing's a DLC like SFIV? Capcom should really figure out what a DLC should really be that benefits them and gamers.

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 12:56:05 AM
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An open letter to Cliffy B,

Why, & how, is it that you don't/won't/can't understand the gamer nations uproar over charging us twice for our disc, the second time just so we can get "OUR OWN" on-disc DLC unlocks???

Here, let me put my answer to your comment in the most simplest terms available....

"NO"

"And if it's ALREADY on "MY" disc, it should ALREADY be mine too, and with "NO" additional unlocks what-so-ever, and especially by charging me again for MY VERY OWN DISC's content.

To all gamers, we really need to start nipping this kind of shite in the bud before everyone starts doing it.....
So I suggest you vote with your wallet, and only buy the game once the price to $30 new, or during a "Buy 2, get 1 Free" deal(and make sure you inform the cashier to make that gimped game the Freebie on your receipt.
Or do what I'm going to start doing right back to them too, by buying their gimped game "USED only".

If enough of our wallets do the speaking for us, they'll have no choice but to listen to what we've got to say, or else fold up.

And that choice will be theirs.



Last edited by BikerSaint on 4/10/2012 1:07:14 AM

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Ludakriss
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 2:00:45 PM

FIGHT THE GOD DAMN POWER!!!!

Might sound like I'm makin fun because of the capitals but it's far from it, brotha.

I was sayin, thinkin, doing the same for a LOOOOOONG time now.

Got to get our, gamer, shit together, people.

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

BikerSaint
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 1:16:16 AM
Reply

Cliffy B....
And another thing.....

It may be a unfortunate reality in your mind, but it's certainly not one in our minds.

"It's a customer-fleecing, cheap-trick, game-scamming, cash-grab"

Agree with this comment 12 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

PSN French
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 2:36:25 AM

Gamers have no problem paying for the joke that is Elite for CoD. But when it comes to REAL games, the developers don't deserve our money. I'm ashamed to be a gamer if the only developers being rewarded are the ones making a FPS. Eventually EVERY game is going to be a CoD clone because they have been allowed to charge people hundreds of dollars every year for the same effing game... I wish gaming WASN'T going mainstream, it's ruining my favorite hobby!!

Agree with this comment 9 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 5:06:35 AM
Reply

fine if its for "compatibility" issues then fine offer it for FREE!
you dont see other industries selling you something then saying oh BTW that little thing on there, well yeah we had to put it in there and its not included in the price so cough up another 10 bucks.
game developers are just f*cking greedy THATS the problem!
we pay 4,5,6,7,8,9 hundred bucks for a game console but oh no thats not enough!
so we pay 4,5,6,7,8,9 hundred bucks for another!
but oh no thats still not enough!
we have to spend another 100 bucks or so on controllers and whatever other ridiculous peripherals.
but thats still not enough!
then we have to spend another 10+ bucks on multiple DLC packs.
where does it end!?
companies are making tens of millions of dollars profit on these things and there STILL complaining!?
fine, if your not happy with it give me 1 10th of that and you will NEVER see me again!
yea, thats what i thought.............

this is EXACTLY why we need another videogames crash!
watch the attitude change drastically!
from oh waaaaaaa we only sold 2M copies thats not enough!
to oh thank god we sold 2M copies!
im sick of the greediness that has engulfed the industry!

as the saying goes, you dont realise what you have till you loose it..........

Agree with this comment 7 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

dbyzforce
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 8:44:14 AM

I'm starting to agree with the statement its more about greed. I knew things like this and complaints about "used games" would eventually come as the video games industry grew really big. There will be a point when people will be fed up with it. I know a few people gave up gaming over online passes, drm and paid dlc. They say gaming is too expensive now and by trying to soak and control customers how they play has ruined the joy and fun out of gaming...

Last edited by dbyzforce on 4/10/2012 8:48:28 AM

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___________
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 9:57:24 AM

it is too expensive!
no more is a console controller and TV enough.
now you need a Internet connection, more pieces of plastic then you can wave a stick at, a larger HDD to install half the games that require HDD installs, not to mention DLC, then a few extra bucks for DLC thats already on the disk you paid for!
next they will be charging you extra for a case and manual!

as for DRM dont get me started on that!
all ill say is im sick and tired of companies treating their fans like the gum under their shoe!
allot of people have stopped buying games for A there too expensive, B BS measures like online passes and DRM, or C all of the above.
and its only going to get worse!
id hate to see it happen, but sadly the only way to "fix" the industry is to have another crash!
yea that would mean few games, companies going bust, and the such, but if thats what needs to happen to break this habit then so be it!
its ironic companies are doing this to gain more fans, when all thats happening is its loosing them!
instead of making gaming more mainstream, there making it more niche!
congrats geniuses!
as the saying goes you catch more flies with honey then vinegar!
one day they will learn that!
one day..............

Agree with this comment 2 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

xenris
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 8:10:22 AM
Reply

Whats sad is in that 2-4 months that the games are essentially "done" the publisher usually abuses the QA teams with unreasonable hours of work treats them like crap and under pays them.

Whats also flawed with his statement is that he says that the team needs to be working on things. One I would like to ask WHY they have to be working on something, and two does that HAVE to be day one or the week after launch DLC?

Third of all, if they really wanted to get gamers respect back, anything they made in these 4 months would be free, ESPECIALLY if its on the disc. Charging ten dollars for it is an obviously cash grab.

I'll say it again, Valve and Steam know exactly how to treat their customers with their in house products. Also guess what, they are hugely successful doing it. Free content updates, free maps, free patches, and games that go on sale for 5 bucks, THAT is how you get the consumer on your side.

CDProjekt is another developer that knows exactly how to treat their fans.

So its a bunch of greedy nonsense when you hear publishers or devs saying they can't give stuff for free. They can and it works there is proof of this.

Agree with this comment 11 up, 1 down Disagree with this comment

___________
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 10:03:57 AM

oh course they have to be working on something what else are they getting paid for!?
in this day and age you cant afford to send your company on a holiday after every game ships!
DLC has to be close to release, if you release it too late most people have already traded the game in thus making the company loose money on that, and then there not going to buy the game again just to play the DLC thus the company is hurting again.
on disk of course but asking a company to do 4 months work without pay is just ridiculous!
would you pay someone to do 4 months work for you but your not getting any profit out of it?
publishers are in the industry to make money not loose it!

though i have to agree CD and valve are 2 of the VERY few companies who know how to treat their fans!
valve giving portal 2 PC free to anyone who bought the ps3 version, not to mention cross play, free DLC, constant updates, i love valve!
CD are cool too giving all the CE stuff for witcher 2 for free!
most publishers would charge you 40+ extra for all the extra content but CD see it as a incentive to preorder.
only if we had more publishers like those two!

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xenris
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 1:04:12 PM

If they are already getting paid than the content they make in that four months should be free for purchasing the game new.

I just find it lame that in those 4 months they decide to make on disc DLC and charge for it. Make it a pre order incentive or an if you buy it new incentive, but don't release it as "optional" day one stuff, or worse like what capcom does locking away 12 stinking characters.

You are a baffling person, you hate DLC and you hate the greed in the industry but your previous post has you almost defending them. I guess you just play devils advocate even if it contradicts yourself?

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Ludakriss
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 2:07:52 PM

Just wanted to say thank you for including CD Project in your comment as an example of a humble dev.

How come the ones that have little always share more than the ones who have it all...

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Crabba
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 6:50:54 PM

well obviously they need to work on something since they're still getting paid to work, but how about that work being fixing bugs, and making the game run faster and smooter?? But no, you can't nickle n dime people with stuff like that. Oh wait don't give them any ideas...

That'll be the next big thing: Bug-fix DLC (Stop the game from crashing!), Only $9.99!!
Game Update v1.1 DLC $4.99

Why is it that people call content 'Free' if its included when you BUY the game?? Why are the last 4 months somehow different than the previous 8 months of development, and somehow those trying to make it sound like 'well since the game is basically done, everything we do from this point on we can charge people extra for'...

Cliff Bleszinski: At least be honest about it and say 'Yeah we're trying to charge you extra for as much as possible, because $60 just isn't good enough, and our customers are too stupid to realize it'. Only, a lot of people AREN'T that stupid Cliff, and see right through this BS...

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Fane1024
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 7:58:44 PM

Crabba,

Different people do different things. Content creators don't (generally) work on squashing bugs.

The content *isn't* included in the original package just because it's on the disc. Only the unlocked (and advertized) content is being purchased.

I'm not saying that I like it, but those are the facts. You are only entitled to what the company said you would get for your $60, not everything that they made or could have made while developing the game. If that content isn't worth $60 IYO, wait for a price drop.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 4/10/2012 8:09:58 PM

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Crabba
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 @ 4:50:19 AM

Fane1024 well that's what this debate is about, isn't it? Ofcourse they can do whatever they want (and they obviously do) but people don't have to like it, and if people vote with their wallets they won't make any more money by using this type of practice either.

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PoopsMcGee
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 9:59:34 AM
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"Whats sad is in that 2-4 months that the games are essentially "done" the publisher usually abuses the QA teams with unreasonable hours of work treats them like crap and under pays them."

Amen to that!

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Highlander
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 10:26:23 AM
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Whoa, wait a minute. The inclusion of day 1 DLC on the production disc is a 'compatibility issue'? What kind of compatibility issue is that, the compatibility of my dollar and his wallet? I call BS on CliffyB, then again, I always call BS on CliffyB, after all anyone that wants to be called CliffyB servers to have BS called on them at every given opportunity.

As Bikersaint points out this issue is incredibly simple to every consumer in the world. If the content is on the disc they purchased for cash money, then they should not have to pay extra to access it. Consumers see that - rightly - as daylight robbery, and a con. How else would you describe it?

I know that there are grey areas here. For instance, if some or all of the graphics assets used in the DLC are already part of the game, but the actual meaningful game code is downloaded, that is DLC. If all of the content is already on the disc, and you merely unlock it, that's an unlock, not DLC. If the disc merely contains the game code that allows new game elements to be downloaded and installed at a later date, then obviously it's DLC.

I don't see what is so hard for folks like CliffyB to get here. Consumers feel cheated by this crap, it's not a 'compatibility issue. It's an issue of fairness in the eyes of the consumer. It's pretty arrogant, and for that matter ignorant, to try to BS your way out of this by calling it a compatibility issue.

Last edited by Highlander on 4/10/2012 10:27:03 AM

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Underdog15
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 11:07:26 AM

Exactly what came to my mind as I was reading...

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Fane1024
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 8:18:24 PM

I'm surprised that two people who argue so adamantly *for* the idea of software licence as it relates to used games suddenly believe that owning a disc entitles the owner to every bit of data stored on it, rather than to the content identified as included with the licence.

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Highlander
Tuesday, April 10, 2012 @ 10:14:36 PM

Fane, you clearly do not read my posts closely enough if you think that. I have long argued that the content on the disc is what is licensed to the consumer by the purchase of the game. So charging additional money for content already on the disc seems wrong in terms of the logical and natural order of a purchase. The licensing terms are still there. In fact I've previously said that charging for additional content already on the disc is a bad idea since it muddies the waters of digital content. I believe that DLC must be actually downloaded in order for the licensing terms and copyright laws to be satisfied. After all the copyright laws and doctrine of first sale do apply to the sale of the actual disc based copy of the game, even if the license is non transferable.

I'm surprised that you felt the need to try a little yah-boo sucks to you kind of post. Whatever.

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Fane1024
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 @ 1:34:06 AM

That was not my intent. I am honestly surprised that you took such a strong position against the company selling data hidden on the disc as "new" content. It seemed inconsistent with your previous statements. I now understand the distinction you make, so your position makes more sense. No childish BS.

I'm sorry if you read it that way.

I occasionally make obnoxious comments in jest, but I never take pot shots at anyone just to feed my ego (not even at _________ - my occasional criticisms of his behavior are in defense of the level of discourse here).


Last edited by Fane1024 on 4/11/2012 1:36:22 AM

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Crabba
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 @ 4:54:20 AM

hm, maybe a class action would be in order here, feed some starving lawyers, a $2 coupon for gamers, and get this DLC BS out of games as an added bonus...

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Highlander
Wednesday, April 11, 2012 @ 10:53:06 AM

My apologies Fane, I was being trigger happy on the flame gun - and reading with my eyes, not my brain.

Last edited by Highlander on 4/11/2012 10:53:32 AM

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DeathOfChaos
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 9:27:40 AM
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I can understand putting some of the DLC on the disc and then when the DLC comes up online, then you buy the DLC in order to make the unfinished DLC finished, makes the size of the DLC smaller making faster download times, AND ultimately making sure that if it's a bigger DLC item that it comes out with great quality and no problems. But having a whole DLC on the disc to the point where people can just modify a few lines of code or something to unlock it, that's just unfair. The least they could do in that instance is give out that DLC for free in order to ensure compatibility and whatnot.

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Irievibes
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 11:27:01 AM
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pfff yeah right....because we all know mass effect 2 came out digitally on ps3 after 2 years for 30 dollars......

IF and WHEN digitally distributed games cost the $30 dollars he says , i will accept paying for extra dlc , but if they are going to still shove the games at 50-60 bucks then try to charge me 10 more for content that was available DAY ONE....the end result is , they can stick it up their butts for 2 years until such time i see it as a bundle (just like i did for me2 for ps3 , instead of day one buy, i waited and now bought it for 20 bucks with all dlc)

yeah ill "accept" on disc DLC as a reality, when they accept the reality that i am not going to spend 100 bucks for a "complete" game
(now extra missions and/or maps for FPS games i understand costing extra , after all it is , "Extra" content)

i always thought dead space had a good model, you dont need to buy anything to enjoy 100 percent of the story and game, if you want to look cooler, or have an easier time, its your choice (some people buy the suits to go for trophies) but for example this whole me3 fiasco left a sour taste in our mouths because of principle , not because actual lack of content

if the extra dlc has nothing to do with the main storyline, i wont feel as bad by not having it, but the fact that they do it, feels to me like i am being "forced" to pay extra

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LowKey
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 4:46:31 PM
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EFFE DLC!!!! I recently bought dragon age origins ultimate edition which comes with all the dlc on the disc. I was sooooo happy. DLC is a joke. Why you ask? Because I am Canadian. We don't have unlimited bandwidth, ours is capped at a certain amount of Gigs/month. Different companies offer say 60 gb/Mo for $45/month. also the different amounts dictate what speeds we get. So not only are we paying for the DLC we have to watch out how big the file is plus, updates don't even get me started on updates. So companies and people who push for digital downloads can get seriously bent.

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Ather
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 5:12:52 PM
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Yes, just accept it. Shut up. Then they won't have to cave in to their consumers' demands. Idiot. We buy a disc, then have to pay more to access the whole thing. WTF! The good old days, you unlocked things by achievements. Play 15 hours, new weapon is now available. Voila.

Listen to tis guy, and soon you'll eb paying to accelerate your car, use the 3D effect on your 3D TV. Who knows where the madness will end when others see us willing to pay more to fully use what we already own.

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Crabba
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 5:38:25 PM

'WTF! The good old days, you unlocked things by achievements. Play 15 hours, new weapon is now available. Voila.'

This.

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Draguss
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 6:18:22 PM
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I don't really think it's such a simple issue. I say, if the game is done with a few months left over and they have some space left on the disc, then why not? Saves me the download time and hard drive space. But if it's something that was originally in the game and got cut, or if the game came out with a load of bugs they really should've spent those last months getting rid off, then we have a problem.

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