Do Japanese Designers Really Think Their Games Are Better?
See Full ImageI had no idea this was true.
Throughout this generation, I and many others saw Japanese developers actively struggling to keep up with the rapidly changing video game landscape.
I say "actively" because we can find a Western influence of some kind in many major Japanese releases over the past five years or so. This would imply that Japan knows they're lagging behind in terms of advancement and overall quality, correct? I mean, they're reacting, not just acting, right?
But former Capcom boss and Comcept founder Keiji Inafune really dropped a bombshell on that whole argument. He's been saying for a while now that Japanese game makers need to - in short - adapt or get out. And after reiterating that to some extent in his most recent interview, he hit us with this interesting nugget:
"Right now, Japan believes that other Asian games, and American games, aren't as good as theirs. But across the world, American games are the best-selling and considered the most fun. But Japan's gamers and game creators still won't accept this. This is why Japan can't win."
Wait...really? They're still so far out of the loop that they think they still hold the quality torch for this industry? That almost doesn't seem possible. If it's true, what's their explanation for their lagging? Is it just that Westerners have more Western games to choose from now, and they're just going with what's familiar? In the old days, it was basically all Japanese; all the games we bought came from Japanese designers, so we didn't really have much choice. But now, we have the option from a cultural standpoint.
But don't they read reviews? Do they honestly believe all critics are simply biased against Japanese games now? Or maybe they think that because a game like Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots can still dominate, they've still got their finger on the pulse of gamer nation. But I'm not sure I'm buying that. I refuse to believe Japanese developers are just turning a blind eye on lower review scores, lower sales, and a ton of fans expressing their displeasure with Japanese products.
But then again, maybe it makes sense...how else can they explain totally missing RPG fans going, "Uh...hey...you know, we would've been buying turn-based games to this very damn day."
Tags: japanese developers, japanese games, western games, video games
4/12/2012 9:56:15 PM Ben Dutka
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Comments (49 posts)
Nas Is Like
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 8:46:52 PM
0 up, 1 down
ZettaiSeigi
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 10:23:02 PM
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I am a huge fan of JRPGs, but they're hardly to be seen right now. I miss the days when I struggle to finish the JRPGs I have because lots of very good ones release so close to each other!
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Shams
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 7:22:36 AM
And let's not forget, Japan still makes the best pure action games (Vanquish, NG's, Demon's/Dark Souls if they count), fighter games (StreetFighter, Tekken, BlazBlue, DOA), and have genres entirely unique to their own country (JRPGs and quirky monster collector games).
They may not ever recover the position they monopolized as leading pioneers, and they haven't delivered much in the way of online shooters, and with the growing costs of making games this gen they surely haven't been as prolific as before, but they still deliver a disproportionate number of great games.
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stealth20k
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:11:46 PM
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Drake_RB3
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 4:28:11 PM
You're kidding right? PS1 and PS2 was and still is the king of JRPGs. I'd really like you to name a few of these amazing games this gen.
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Underdog15
Tuesday, April 17, 2012 @ 1:26:25 PM
No response. lol that's what we thought. he's got nothing. :p
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bebestorm
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 10:49:50 PM
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3 up, 0 down
ZenChichiri
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 11:23:04 PM
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Catherine (Easily one of my favs this gen)
Vanquish
Valkyria Chronicles
Atelier Totori
Blazblue
Shadows of the Damned
MGS4
Demon's/Dark Souls
With that said, Japan still has quality, but here's the problem. Japanese developers are so unsure about their own creative qualities in a foreign market that they don't plan to localize their unique games. We are seeing them only localizing games they think we would like (lack of JRPGs being a prime example). This has made a situation where we Westerners believe that there is a creative void coming from the Japanese market. Some of their more unique games get localized, but only a fraction. Most of their visual novels (much akin to some on the DS) aren't localized, and they're supposed to have fantastic stories.
Also, if they're making a game for the Japanese market and only them, then we're going to see a lack of perceived quality by Western standards that is still considered top class by Japanese standards. Many Western gamers don't like anime. If this is the case, they won't like games in which their art style is based on anime. Simple as that. Japanese people might see a game in HD with anime cartoony style graphics as the pinnacle of visual presentation whereas their Western counterparts won't see it.
In the case of the developers thinking they're better, it's feasible that it's true. Living in Asia right now I can see that particular "I'm the best" syndrome because the countries in Northeast Asia all believe that. Chinese people think China is the best, Japanese people think Japan is, and Korea thinks they are (of where I reside).
4 up, 0 down
Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 11:29:24 PM
And no matter what your personal preferences, those titles will always lose (in the long run) to the Grand Theft Autos, Assassins Creeds, Call of Dutys, Uncharteds, etc.
4 up, 2 down
ZenChichiri
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 12:10:33 AM
Japan is so used to being kingpin that they miss the glory I suppose. They don't need to transform, but they need to adapt their uniqueness for a larger audience if they want a bigger piece of the pie, not change completely. What Inafune said about hybrid Japanese and Western games sounds like a great idea, and we can already see that a bit with Demon's/Dark Souls and Vanquish, both of which were great.
I hope to continue to see variety coming out of the Japanese market, but I also hope they continue to succeed. They're balancing on a tightrope right now with their identity crisis and leaving a global footprint.
Last edited by ZenChichiri on 4/13/2012 12:15:14 AM
3 up, 0 down
Dancemachine55
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 12:31:21 AM
While the JRPG fanbase is still alive and very vocal, unfortunately we are in the minority and very small compared to CoD, Uncharted and Battlefield fanbases. Heck, even Skyrim has a larger fanbase because it is a WRPG!!
Japan aren't good at making military shooters like Infinity Ward, DICE or Epic Games. Sadly, Shooters are what's popular right now, so Japan either needs to step up and make a shooter that blows them all out of the water, or ride out this shooter craze until RPG's become popular again.
Bioware and Naughty Dog refined the shooting elements of their games because it is what people want right now. Japanese devs have tried their hand at shooters with Quantum Theory, Shadows of the Damned and Binary Domain, but they just don't match the quality a review ratings of games like CoD, Battlefield, Uncharted or Mass Effect. Sad but true.
I think the best thing Japanese devs can do is cater to their home audience in Japan until the shooting craze has finally passed. Might take a while though. Or learn from Western developers what makes their games popular and try to adopt what they learn into their games. This does not mean dumbing down content or features... Square!!!
1 up, 2 down
Palpatations911
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 12:54:48 AM
Last edited by Palpatations911 on 4/13/2012 1:00:08 AM
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ZenChichiri
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:03:00 AM
Japanese games are popular in Japan, but Westerners don't like that style as much anymore, so the perceived quality by us is much lower because it's not the preferred style. Look at Japanese reviews of their own games. They're much higher. They should continue to make games for their market (our niche markets) while experimenting with other ideas while retaining their identity and not just copying a Western style. The formula for success is not just making more of the same, but experimenting with good ideas from everywhere.
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SmokeyPSD
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 3:42:07 AM
To single out Catherine and Uncharted, I love them both but that really is like saying I find Transformers a much more rounded experience than 2001 a Space Odyssey. They are just offering totally different experience.
Last edited by SmokeyPSD on 4/13/2012 3:44:52 AM
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stealth20k
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:14:33 PM
Games not getting localized isnt anything new
The problem is your all generalizing.......
Really the only games this year so far worth play are japanese ( generalization)
see its no good
0 up, 2 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 12:05:19 AM
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We've all been assuming they are "westernizing" their games, because it is obvious and that's the part that sucks about Japanese games this gen.
So, that fact alone proves something is rotten in Denmark. Maybe they think they do "western" better than the actual west.
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Dancemachine55
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 12:44:02 AM
By catering to Western audiences, Japanese games are dumbing down their core gameplay and features to catch the ADD CoD crowd, but the quality of their games aren't the same as CoD or Battlefield.
So, basically, the games aren't as good as they used to be, but what they've changed doesn't match the quality of the competition they're aiming to be like. They're just hitting the middle mediocre level of quality.
This means that many Japanese devs must make a decision, do they:
A) stop trying to cater to Western audiences and go back to what they did best, such as JRPG's?
or
B) abandon their Japanese heritage and culture and go all out trying to make the highest quality Western shooter and adapt to modern game design.
Either way, they have to stop half-heartedly doing one or the other. I feel like some (not all) Japanese devs this gen are the Jack of all trades, master of none. Kojima and Miyamoto will always be the masters to me, though. :)
Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 4/13/2012 12:45:06 AM
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shadowscorpio
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 2:32:45 AM
I can agree that Japanese devs need to really make a decision. Not float in limbo.
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Highlander
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 10:45:09 AM
The problem now is that with folks like Inafune and Itagaki making all the pronouncements tearing down Japanese developers I think that the problem is going to get worse, before it get's better. Japanese devs need to realize - as I think western devs have - they they are best sticking to what they know. Just make the best game you can in your culture and genre. If it's good, it will sell.
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telly
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 11:01:17 AM
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karneli lll
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 12:30:04 AM
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Dancemachine55
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 12:49:12 AM
Best story goes to FF VII for me though. Most memorable characters I've ever come across.
If FF XIV or even XV play like FF XII, with the same combat mechanics, it will be the first FF I've bought on Day 1 since FF XII.
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gunblademaster
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:03:45 AM
Best story I'm not so sure. Sure it was great but personally, that award needs to go to either ff8, 9 or 10.
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ZenChichiri
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:16:45 AM
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telly
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 11:03:14 AM
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karneli lll
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 11:28:44 AM
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Drake_RB3
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 4:32:36 PM
I'd go with the GBA version. When FFVI came out with FF V on "Anthology" there were some crappy load times. So if they were corrected on the PSN version I'd go with that. You might want to ask around about it.
But you could play it safe and get the GBA version which you can even play on the DS like I did.
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robinhood2010
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:44:24 AM
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LowKey
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 2:25:17 AM
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http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/10994.html
I was talking about this jadedness yesterday.
Last edited by LowKey on 4/13/2012 2:27:10 AM
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Beamboom
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 3:09:22 AM
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In my opinion it's not just the Japanese developers that are in denial, that does indeed go for many of their fans too. I believe the fans are doing the Japanese developers a huge disservice by keep repeating that "nothing is wrong, you're doing just fine, it's not you, it's us".
Last edited by Beamboom on 4/13/2012 3:14:04 AM
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Fane1024
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 6:07:46 AM
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We need to clone Ryan Payton and send one to every Japanese team. He got Kojima to update the clunky MGS mechanics without the game losing its soul.
p.s. I know this doesn't account for the "death" of turn-based mechanics. I haven't the faintest clue how to explain that trend.
Last edited by Fane1024 on 4/13/2012 6:11:57 AM
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___________
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 6:15:52 AM
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they dont think their games are better per se but they believe that their ideas are better.
crapcom and their statement about RE being too big for survival horror for instance.
that does not mean its too good for it, that their games are too good, but that its too big expensive series to justify it.
there got it stuck in their head that a mindless action game will sell better then a survival horror game!
which how can you say when we have nothing to base it on?
if we had heaps of survival horror games and they sold poorly i could understand, but the last time we had a proper survival horror game, was, well, definitely not this gen!
its not so much that they believe their games are better, its that they believe their ideas are.
which is why they refuse to listen to their god dam fans!
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PC_Max
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 8:28:59 AM
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I think Japanese devs, not all, take an artistic approach to many of their games, some focus on story although sometimes I get lost in them sometimes.
Are they behind the times? Define that. People go on about multiplayer overshadowing single player. Does that mean we should scrap single player altogether for the sake of the MP? Don't think so. Only reason the devs find MP attractive as its probably cheaper in development, no major story plots required to task the brain. The costs are mostly on the server side of things I would guess.
You make the games you enjoy making, in the hopes there is a market for it so you can keep on doing it. Like we need more of the same thing that Western devs make. There are only a few unique gems that pop up now and again.
Maybe the Japanese devs IF the whole thing is about competing in the Western market should scale back and focus on smaller games, like Journey, or Costume Quest scale.
Anyway, too each their own. Keep Playing!
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Highlander
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 10:42:35 AM
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As it happens, in Japan, I suspect that most consumers of games consider that Japanese games are better - simply because they cater to their local market and culture better than western games. but Inafune is too busy counting the dollars he sees flowing into Activision and wants some of that pie.
Japanese games are better at being Japanese games than western games are. Western games are better at being western games than Japanese games are. this is like comparing apples and oranges and saying that that really nice looking orange is better than a great apple. Well, it might be, if you like oranges. but if you like Apples, it's going to taste wrong and be very sharp on the tongue.
It's this constant drive to dilute Japanese games with western influences that has destroyed certain genre and continues to hurt others.
Let's reverse the situation. Let's say that western games like Skyrim ad CoD were not selling well and Western Developers saw powerhouse Japanese franchises as the way forward. So they take Skyrim and give it turn based combat and all the characters suddenly look like they stepped out of a cosplay catalog. CoD replaces the enemy with cyborgs and androids, blood is replaced by flashes and other flashy effects, action is stylized and unrealistically grand. Is that going to help those games in the west?
Actually, if you look back to the heyday of PS1/PS2 that's the situation. But western developers stuck to what they know best, and made western games for western gamers. It was very successful. Japanese developers continued to make Japanese games up until this generation, which was successful until this generation. but an influx of western money and the attraction of mega sales has resulted in the dilution of the Japanese games with western influence. Key genre have lost their way because of this influence.
The solution is not to dilute them further. Inafune is so wrong I don't know where to begin.
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Beamboom
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:19:26 PM
You talk like they technically are equal and the only difference between Japanese and western games is the art style and gameplay. That's not what Inafune & co think. And it's the technical difference they talk about.
There's nothing culturally dependent about clumsy interfaces, poor acting, bad scripts, confusing gameplay, dated graphics, poor tutorials and so forth, and that's the point. To let the Japanese remain Japanese, just make it BETTER.
Last edited by Beamboom on 4/13/2012 1:24:47 PM
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Highlander
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 2:51:20 PM
It's not about technology at all. It's about the perception that Japanese games are some how not state of the art, but are instead old fashioned and somehow not up to the same standard as a western game. If it is as you asserted about technical differences, please explain how technical improvements could make WKC2 a 9/10 game for you, or the Atelier games, or tales of Graces F, or Vanquish (which although considered a great game is never held in comparison with such games as CoD or for that matter Gears of War). How would such technical expertize elevate MGS4?
Many of the changes in interface and gameplay come as part of that effort to morph what was a clean game design into something that appeals in the West. Localization often adds to the problem because localization endeavors to take a Japanese game and make it English/French or whatever. Often there are sentiments, emotions and cultural references that make sense in Japanese and to the Japanese. These kinds of thing are removed by localization and replaced with something more western. Since the localization is not done by the original writers, they tend to make safe choices in such situations, Without knowing the original intent of the moment being changes, you can be left with clumsily written scenes that lack the moment that made the scene work in the original script.
I play a *lot* of games that get localized and believe me, there are a lot of instances where some inane or inappropriate joke or slapstick moment has replaced a more poignant moment from the original. Localization is not always a very positive thing. that's why lots of people like watching Anime in Japanese with subtitles, they change less of the meaning. I got the recent Fate game on PSP, it's an interesting game because it is a very faithful translation of the original with no western voicing. So you get the original game with all the original material, but English text and menus. It's an example of how to quickly localize a game at limited cost without hurting the original game.
Inafune is not talking about localization either, he is talking about bringing western developers in to the original development phase. Basically what that does is tell the Japanese team "Hey guys, you're great and all, but you haven't the first clue about the stuff these guys work on. So we hired them to do it for you." Not exactly a motivational speech.
Last edited by Highlander on 4/13/2012 2:55:05 PM
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Beamboom
Sunday, April 15, 2012 @ 8:18:43 AM
I just wanted to point out that he was talking about cooperation on a technical level, not artistical. Just that. :)
Last edited by Beamboom on 4/15/2012 8:52:05 AM
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AcHiLLiA
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 10:43:22 AM
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Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 4/13/2012 10:45:57 AM
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stealth20k
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 1:15:21 PM
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IDEA FACTORY IS HIS FAVORITE COMPANY...........
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Highlander
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 2:41:02 PM
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Kotaku had a good article. No, really. It was about JRPGs not really being dead.
Here, look....
http://kotaku.com/5899489/no-jrpgs-are-not-stale-old+fashioned-archaic-obsolete-out-of-touch-rehashes
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BigBoss4ever
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 3:52:21 PM
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they did not deliver well this gen, mainly because they are blinded by this westernization crap and want to make money out of the westerners, if they can come out of this and forget about that, their talents are unmatched --this is proven by their unique Japanese flairs in the past games....so my feeling is always mixed with the japan developers -- love them but also hate them, especially for this gen's derail.
Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 4/13/2012 3:54:44 PM
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SnipeySnake
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 4:14:39 PM
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I personally like it when Japanese games try to appeal to their own country. Most of the ones that try to appeal outside of japan end up becoming bad. There are tons of japanese psp games that are barely even heard of but are still really great games. That's my opinion anyway.
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stealth20k
Friday, April 13, 2012 @ 10:17:58 PM
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Chamoru_Warrior
Sunday, April 15, 2012 @ 8:52:01 PM
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SS4
Sunday, April 15, 2012 @ 11:14:30 PM
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I think game quality isnt really improving and that lots of blockbuster are rather plain games.
Now some devs are really making great games but the crowd is full of non gamer nowadays. The most recent exemple is the ME3 ending crybabies . . .
Now I think most Japanese devs are lost and are trying to emulate sub par games which makes it even less then sub par . . .
Some Japanese devs havent lost their roots though and have evolved and are still bringing us great games that we wouldnt expect from western Devs. I give my hats off to them.
Now im just one person and what i consider real gamers are now being overtaken in numbers by the non gaming crowd since games are so main stream now and i think this is the real problem here.
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Nas Is Like
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Thursday, April 12, 2012 @ 10:22:21 PM