Some Gamers Aren't Big Fans Of Lara's Fresh Vulnerability

Temjin001
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:57:54 AM
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haha, that was an entertaining read. I think the new Lara game looks great. I see a number of technical things I hope they polish up before release. but other than that and concerning this backlash. It's pretty much to be expected. It seems any change to any gaming franchise inevitably brings out the worst in some people.
I don't really get the porn statement in the gore/porn. I do see more gore and more horror elements which I'm not particularly fond of, but I don't suspect it'll be anything more than I can handle. Anyway, I look forward to trying this one out. I really don't think this newer Lara is replacing the existing one. I think it's been said this is the one that molds Lara into the figure everyone knows she is now.

8 up, 1 down

FatherSun
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:52:00 PM

I agree with you! Proportions are being blown! Its all bullshit! Making it seem like "GAMES" are exclusive in the RAPE/Female development argument! It's movies, music, art and society itself that make these portrayals. I mean really, how many games even have these types of situations? I cannot recall off the top of my head but I wouldn't even attempt to count how many movies, songs, paintings, web videos whatever include RAPE or other heinous crimes for that matter.

Games should not be singled out in this argument! Its a fact of life! Human nature is sick. Either do something about or get over it. If you want to hide an be oblivious to crime of any negativity please do so. Go ahead keep your blinders on. Just remember that ignorance can be just as great a crime as the acts themselves. But for Gods sake! Do not condemn those who can differentiate games from reality!

Last edited by FatherSun on 6/13/2012 6:54:32 PM

1 up, 4 down

Sir Dan
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:05:31 AM
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That's one uptight "gamer". Probably should stick with Pong.

10 up, 3 down

duomaxwell007
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:14:48 AM
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umm its a ORIGIN story.. her being vulnerable makes sense to anyone over the age of 18 who has minimal intelligence.. Lara didnt burst from the womb being a badass.. something had to PUSH her to that point.. and this game (hopefully) shows how she went from weak, normal, "everyday" girl to the badass shes portrayed in in the other T games... makes perfect sense to me.. I mean look at the Uncharted 3 "past" segments.. was Drake a badass in those? nope he was a scared little kid who couldn't even point a gun at someone without trembling. now look at him hes practically rambo lol

10 up, 2 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:28:17 AM

So, you're content that they have to depict multiple instances where Lara is subjected to attempted rape? Presumably if the player fails to protect her, she's actually raped. Prigin story or not, this is exploiting something that should never be exploited. In act the only people I know of that *do* exploit rape - other than rapists (may they rot in jail until they literally rot), is the porn industry.

So, you're OK with that? In a video game? Really?

11 up, 11 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:59:20 AM

Oh come on Highlander you know you're a fan of RapeLay!

1 up, 9 down

duomaxwell007
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:20:29 PM

a) im ok with realism in video games.. if that realism includes rape then sure.. at least that proves games are "evolving" "growing up" a opposed to being "just for kids" like 90% of the adult population would act if a 30 year old male told them they play video games.. now would I ALLOW my character to get raped if it was an option? of course not... and honestly I dont think it WILL be as option.. Im sure itll be like that stupid scene on Ninja Gaiden 3 where as guy is pleading for his life an you stand over him.. as if you have the option to kill him or let him live.. except you can NLY kill him to proceed... the only other option being to continually sit at the one screen watching him plead... you cant just walk away. lol

2 up, 3 down

duomaxwell007
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:23:58 PM

besides to reiterate on my point of realism... lets say your a woman that gets stranded on an island.. barely surviving and looking like you just lost a fight with a bull... then you run into a group of bad man.. all males... whom are thieves, pirates or whatever the heck illegal activities theyre conducting there... they see this woman, scared, alone and hurt.. do you honestly NOT think at least ONE of them would try to rape her? remember these are BAD men were talking about.. not some native village laras just stumbled into.

1 up, 4 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:13:26 PM

oh so 'BAD men' are involved so it's OK? I get the point about the scene possibly conveying story or character when it appears once. It can be a stark and brutal reminder of the realities of her situation. I get that. But why include more than one instance? That is unnecessary and smells of exploitation rather than artistic integrity. I don't like it either way. But like a movie, if a scene is artistically justified, that's one thing. That justification breaks down when the same plot 'device' is reused. It also tends to make it 'routine' especially as this is a video game that may well include multiple replays, especially of the character dies. To me that makes the inclusion of such a scene even more concerning.

8 up, 4 down

Neo_Aeon666
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:29:06 PM

@ Highlander

*Presumably if the player fails to protect her, she's actually raped.*

No thats not how it goes. If you fail to protect her you FAIL and have to do it again until you can do it like the story is supposed to be.

Only in your twisted mind can you imagine she would get raped but the story says otherwise and that is why you have to do it again until you can protect her.

I can't wait for this game to witness the forging of a badass heroine.

6 up, 4 down

duomaxwell007
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:01:20 PM

yeah youre right if the rape things is "normal" or happens more than once in the game THEN you have a valid point but Im pretty sure thats only gonna be a one time thing.. besides there are worse thing.. what about that movie with the full blown, unedited, explicit detail having 8 minute long rape scene? it was a MOVIE and yet it was so "well done" (for lack of a better phrase) I had a hard time convincing myself that that WASNT real.... that being said Lara getting rape don tomb raider would be nothing to be after seeing that movie.

1 up, 1 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:15:09 PM

Which movie has a scene like that? I can say for sure I haven't seen it, nor will I.

4 up, 5 down

slugga_status
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:29:36 PM

I'm actually rather offended that they would even include that in a video game. I have a relative that is a female who grew up playing Tomb Raider games..I can only imagine how female gamers feel about it..

At some point there has to be the realization that not everything needs to be included in a game. Whether or not it's one instance or multiple..

5 up, 5 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:30:29 PM

Watch Irreversible, it's very similar to Memento in that it is played backwards. Its won several awards and is critically acclaimed.

Oh and it contains a rather lengthy and gruesome rape scene.

Other movies that come to mind are
The Accused (Jodi Foster won an Oscar)
The Shawshank Redemption
American History X
A Clockwork Orange

There are many more...

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/13/2012 2:31:33 PM

9 up, 1 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:51:13 PM

Thank you LV for a short list of movies to avoid.

6 up, 14 down

duomaxwell007
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:15:26 PM

Irreversible is the movie.. as for the other movie she listed.. who HAS seen american history x? and those movies only have "implied" or non graphic rape.. (i.e you know he/she is being raped but you dont actually see it and its over in like less than a minute)... unlike Irreversible where you gotta stare it it full blown, unedited with 100% graphic detail to the point where you can see the female reproductive organ tearing and scars afterwards for 8 minutes

0 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:20:57 PM

"she listed" huh?

I'm pretty sure most people here have seen American History X which is not implied but shown rape including lots of blood. That goes for plenty of movies out there. I only listed a few (which took me all but a minute).

Whether the rape is shown or implied is moot. You think they're going to show the rape in Tomb Raider the videogame?

2 up, 0 down

CH1N00K
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:29:55 PM

"( but you dont actually see it and its over in like less than a minute)"

Hee,hee, LV did you know your sex life was like a Movie rape scene?

Last edited by CH1N00K on 6/13/2012 3:30:46 PM

5 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:35:19 PM

Oh come on!

yes :)

4 up, 0 down

YashaZz
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 7:42:56 PM

I completely agree with duomaxwell007.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:25:36 AM
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I have to agree with the sentiment if not the vitriolic nature of it's delivery. Why do video games need to use the specter of your character being raped? I mean seriously, you want to protect your character anyway, so why do e need to bring the porn/gore aspect into this thing? I do also agree that Lara Croft is not a weak character. If they make her a weak simpering character that you want to protect, they are fundamentally altering the nature of the game and character. The game as an outright adventure series with a strong heroine. Now it seem it's to be a bit more of a survival horror game with a character that is in danger of being sexually abused if the gamer doesn't take care of things. That seems kind of pathetic. Plus, it also seems to me that once again we can have violence and even sexual violence depicted in games, but sexiness is beyond the pale.

This bit in particular troubles me; "Rosenberg even says there will be times when scavengers attempt to rape Lara...". To me that says that they are so bankrupt for ideas that they are deliberately and repeatedly exploiting sexual aspects of the character and rape to generate excitement. How F%^king bankrupt as a society are we now that we need to include multiple attempts to rape a character in a video game just to make it exciting and entertaining. Rape isn't entertaining, it's not a source of entertainment it's a violent violation of a person's body, mind and self. It destroys people, and I am sickened that the gaming industry would use it in this manner.

I know one thing, I will not be buying this game.

12 up, 9 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:00:35 PM

Games have become quite realistic and most depict murder so why not rape too?

11 up, 6 down

matt99
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:11:39 PM

While I agree rape should never be exploited, I don't think they're exploiting it in this instance. From my understanding the devs are trying to create a realistic gritty experience and realistically rape would be a very real danger for a girl who is dealing with those types of people. Now whether games should be that realistic is another debate. Having said that, if attempted rape is something that happens repeatedly throughout gameplay then there's something wrong...but if it's a one time thing as part of a cutscene or something and it's used to build up the character then I think it's okay. Much like Lisbeth Salander in the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.

In any case it is a very delicate issue and maybe they should have stayed away from it.

5 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:09:02 PM

Is it necessary to include multiple instances? Would not one be sufficient to get the point across? I see the point that you and Duo make about the inclusion of such a scene to convey a specific element of the story and setting. However, I don't see why more than one instance is needed. That is what to me seems like they are including them for reasons other than advancing the story.

5 up, 3 down

Neo_Aeon666
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:32:35 PM

I don't see why people would have to judge this. That is Lara's story, not yours. This is how they want it to be. There are WAY WAY WAY worse movies out there (critically acclaimed ones at that) and we perceive them as *drama* and give em an OSCAR.

3 up, 5 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:46:15 PM

I don't want to get into this too much but I'm starting to think you may have personal reasons for being against this Highlander. Which I'm obviously okay with but I think you're making a bigger issue about this then need be.

7 up, 5 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:19:34 PM

No, I don't have any particular persona reasons, though I know people that do. I do have a pretty strong moral code, and I feel that the use of rape scenes in movies, on TV and in video games has increased in frequency, and in my opinion that devalues the offense, it makes it seem more ordinary and less extreme and extraordinary.

Tell you what though. Since so many people here apparently haven't got a problem with it. I'll do what society wants to do with the crime itself. I'll shut up and let it pass, sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away.

I am done with this.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/13/2012 2:21:21 PM

6 up, 6 down

Comic Shaman
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:33:25 PM

Highlander, where are you getting this "multiple instances" of rape attempts? It sounds to me like it was said that Lara will have many times where she feels like a cornered animal... and the way I see it, ONE of those times will be the attempted rape shown in the trailer.

Because it seems like the "multiple instances" part is really bugging you. I can't be sure 'til we see the final product, but don't think that Lara is going to be hurtling from one attempted rape to another in the game.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:33:29 PM

Oh come on, it's not like you to give up so easily. I'm enjoying the discussion. We've yet to even play the game so I don't think you're being very fair in your argument of the supposed rape scene.

1 up, 1 down

slugga_status
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:42:50 PM

Comparing it to what happens in movies are not the same at all. There are some things that just shouldn't be in video games..This is something that is despised and disgusting..Even if it's just the attempt, it doesn't belong..

7 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:54:34 PM

@ Comic_Shaman

Quote from article, direct from Rosenberg;

"Rosenberg even says there will be times when scavengers attempt to rape Lara..."

The word times is plural, not singular.

@LV, I am not giving up, I am stopping before I say something that will get me banned.

@Slugga, I agree.

7 up, 2 down

CH1N00K
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:26:42 PM

If it is multiple scenes, I can see Highlander's point. Giving her the opportunity to fight off one perverted rapist, shows her character. Having to do it multiple times doesn't really add anything more to it except degrade the whole experience of the game.

If that is the route they want to go, they may as well just dress Lara up in a Japanese school girl outfit, stick her on a Tokyo train during rush hour and throw in a tentacle monster for fun....

But as none of us have seen the game yet, I think it's too early to judge, but I'd like to think that the developers have enough common sense to be careful when dealing with sensitive issues such as this...

2 up, 0 down

Comic Shaman
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 4:30:57 PM

Ah, didn't see that part. We'll see how it's executed in the game, but I do agree that it makes a difference if they keep using it over and over again.

1 up, 0 down

matt99
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 5:16:48 PM

Ultimately I think it depends on how it's done, so I will reserve judgement on the appropriateness of the game until I play it.

0 up, 0 down

comicozi
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 5:35:56 PM

@highlander

complaining about rape in a GAME! come on GROW UP!! if you dont like or see a need for it then DONT play/buy it. noone wants to hear hear your moral BS.

4 up, 6 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 5:48:25 PM

@comicozi

Oh come on. How f*&king depraved is our society that the people objecting to the inclusion of rape scenes in games have to defend themselves over that objection?

YOU'RE telling ME to grow up?

Unbelievable. I honestly cannot believe that moral compasses are so screwed up in this day and age.

6 up, 4 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:50:17 PM

Highlander I respect you too much to just troll the issue but I think you are being a little unfair. It's okay to object to rape in a videogame, I have no problem with that BUT I don't understand how someone that's fine with violence can object to sexual assault.

Where do we draw the line when it comes to the types of assaults depicted in games? I mean I've played a lot of games and I've seen some really messed up stuff going on in some AAA games.

Is your biggest issue with this that you don't think it will be done in a responsible way?

0 up, 4 down

comicozi
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 7:00:22 PM

Again GAME... FAKE NOT REAL...

2 up, 3 down

Shams
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 8:00:42 PM

Violence is of various levels, including sexual assault. For example, Mario jumping on a goomba is probably one of the lowest levels of violence. Something more graphic, yet still stylized, might be Krato's in a QTE. As violence becomes less stylized and more realistic in nature and depiction, thus the higher levels. Sexual assault is in one of those levels. Aside from that for parents, it is simply a doubly loaded event to guard their underage children from watching. Of course, sexuality by itself, is a different story.

4 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:15:45 PM

"I am done with this."

LOL! Classic.

2 up, 0 down

bebestorm
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:31:13 AM
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Im a woman and Im not offended at all after E3 the new TR would be a great movie on Lifetime. Lara is no longer the cartoony its the real world.Lara is young and will become more in the future. There are similarities with uncharted but at the same time very much Un-Uncharted with the open world,exploration,hunting etc.

12 up, 1 down

Beamboom
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:17:32 PM

woha, hold on there, "the open world,exploration,hunting etc." -> Is there any proof of this being part of the game? From what little I have seen it looked like extremely linear gameplay, much ala Uncharted?

Last edited by Beamboom on 6/13/2012 12:20:35 PM

1 up, 0 down

bebestorm
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:29:41 PM

It was said that after the tutorial your free but of course the story is linear. Just Google it because it would be rude of me to mention another site here and check out youtube. When I saw the video of her hunting it reminded me of Red Dead.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:59:42 PM

Early on we read that this was going to be an open world atmosphere on this island.

1 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:00:16 PM

Oh wow, if they somehow managed to combine something even *remotely* like Red Dead with cinematic story telling ala Uncharted, well then this game just climbed tenfolds on my barometer, we talk about something close to a revolution here.

To be honest I can't really believe that, but boy do I hope I am proven wrong.

Last edited by Beamboom on 6/13/2012 3:00:45 PM

2 up, 0 down

jimmyhandsome
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:38:14 AM
Reply

I'm assuming they're not going to show the rape in-game? Or are they? I'm picturing the screen just going black as if you were to die. I don't have any kids or a wife so I don't have to worry about scarring any women or children in my home, but I don't necessarily want to hear the audio of that. And if this is ok, then why do people freak out over boobies in-game?

The game looks amazing so I can't wait to play it regardless.

3 up, 0 down

CaptRon
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:45:08 AM
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Meh, never cared for this series and I doubt I start now.

1 up, 3 down

cLoudou
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:41:44 PM

I never did either but this reboot has me intrigued. Plus the talk of rape sealed the deal....

...Kidding on the last statement of course.

3 up, 0 down

Neo_Aeon666
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:35:47 PM

Yeah thats because Lara always felt like an empty busty babe XD

You should not compare this with previous entries. It looks amazing and I can't wait for this game.

Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 6/13/2012 1:36:15 PM

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:58:51 AM
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What's turned me off about this game is the complete lack of exploration in the game. It's basically Uncharted now. What I always liked about Tomb Raider was the enormity of the environments and the puzzles. Now it looks like a very linear game heavy on action and scripted fight scenes.

yay?

5 up, 2 down

PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:20:21 PM

"What I always liked about Tomb Raider was the enormity of the environments and the puzzles"

Uncharted's puzzles and environments dwarf Tomb Raiders, some of my favorite segments are the giant puzzles of the Uncharted series (they're only equalled by God of War).

Everyone always complains about Uncharted being the ultimate 'linear' game. Total B.S.! It's about as linear as 80% of single player games on the market.

2 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:26:25 PM

Wow....just wow....

I'm not sure you've actually played a Tomb Raider game if you honestly believe Uncharted has bigger environments and more puzzles than the typical Tomb Raider game.

5 up, 1 down

PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:33:12 PM

I never said it had more puzzles, I said bigger puzzles. Puzzles that ARE huge environments you must climb, traverse, and figure out. Much like the Tomb Raider series, but bigger ;)

edit/ And, yes, I played most of them since the first. Albeit a long time ago...

Last edited by PoopsMcGee on 6/13/2012 12:34:53 PM

1 up, 1 down

berserk
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:04:23 PM

Based on what , 1 gameplay footage at this year E3 ?

Even if its the case , did nt you saw the huge last scenery they showed before ending the footage .

Also , in the first few footage they showed last year , they showed her doing a puzzle .

So if i were you , i would nt give up on it yet .

0 up, 0 down

Ludicrous_Liam
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:10:25 PM

The temple with the big dagger from UC2 comes to mind - that was a pretty huage puzzle. Infact almost the whole level was the puzzle xD

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:37:22 PM

We will just have to agree to disagree. The Tomb Raider games have bigger environments, more puzzles, and bigger puzzles than the Uncharted Series.

4 up, 1 down

slugga_status
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:49:35 PM

Gotta agree with LV here..Tomb Raider games have historically had bigger and more puzzles. Even more difficult puzzles.. I'd even agree with the environment part...I love Uncharted like no other but there's no denying that fact about Tomb Raider..

Last edited by slugga_status on 6/13/2012 2:50:15 PM

3 up, 0 down

PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:39:49 PM

@ Limited Vertigo

No! I will not agree to disagree! I will keep typing until the text physically jumps off your screen and implants itself in your brain and makes you believe SO strongly that Uncharted has bigger puzzles than Tomb Raider that you will eventually have it engraved on your tombstone.

So there ;)

0 up, 1 down

matt99
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:00:23 PM
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I'm still intrigued, and still look forward to playing it.

0 up, 0 down

anjpikapp3
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:04:17 PM
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I think the game looks great! So what if there is a rape scene...its a game. And it's your choice if you want to buy the game or not. Don't want a game with possible rape scene? Then don't buy it. This happens in the real world all the time, most people are just ignorant about it and choose to look the other way. If I can pick up a hooker in GTA, then I see nothing wrong with trying to stop a rape in TR.

Regardless, I am excited to play and see how Lara "grows up." Also, why does everyone always compare TR to Uncharted? Didn't Uncharted release after TR? Shouldn't Uncharted be similar to TR? I played TR before Uncharted and that's why I actually bought Uncharted is because its game play is similar to that of TR...maybe I missed something...

1 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:09:54 PM

Uncharted took certain elements from Tomb Raider and became an action oriented adventure game. Tomb Raider has always been an ADVENTURE game. Well until now...the reboot looks like it's doing exactly what Uncharted does. If you're a fan of Uncharted then I'm sure you'll enjoy it but if you're a longtime fan of Tomb Raider prepare to be disappointed.

3 up, 0 down

anjpikapp3
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:15:56 PM

I agree and disagree. I am very excited to play this installment of TR. I just find it interesting that most people say this is similar to Uncharted when it's completely opposite. Uncharted probably got most of its game play from TR. Also, I do see where TR is moving towards a linear path when the old TR was more open world; however, they are still very similar in basic game play (jumping, shooting, climbing).

0 up, 1 down

PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:21:41 PM

How was Tomb Raider even slightly open-world?

0 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:29:57 PM

@anjpikapp3

How is the Tomb Raider reboot not similar to Uncharted? I'm having trouble finding any differences other than storyline and characters.

@PoopsMcGee

He may have misspoke but Tomb Raider certainly gave the feel of being in an open world with its enormous areas and branching paths. There were times you would see a walkway or puzzle and after hours of playing come across that walkway and puzzle and see how the world fits together.

Uncharted is point A to Point B.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/13/2012 12:30:14 PM

1 up, 0 down

anjpikapp3
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:32:30 PM

@ Poops: "...more open world..." means it is not so linear as Uncharted. With TR I always felt like you could do other things besides the missions (and yeah, I know you have to do the missions to keep moving but not like Uncharted where once you were done, cut scene and no "exploring"). At least that's how the game play feels to me. :D

0 up, 0 down

PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:40:17 PM

Ah, I understand where you're coming from now. But I still think the environmental puzzles in the Uncharted series are massive...

0 up, 1 down

anjpikapp3
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:43:02 PM

@ Limited: Sorry, maybe my typing isn't as clear as the thought in my head...my argument on the TR and Uncharted is that TR released before Uncharted, yet everyone compares TR to Uncharted. I am sure Uncharted borrowed a few things from TR not the other way around. Maybe with this new iteration of TR its TR that has borrowed from Uncharted but then again, Uncharted 1 was very 'similar' to TR: Legend.

1 up, 0 down

anjpikapp3
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:50:43 PM

@Poops: That's a tuff one for me...the way I see it is that with Uncharted, you solve one puzzle to get to the next and so on...

With TR, you had to solve multiple puzzles at once to get through once area, then again for the next, and so on...

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:45:03 PM

I'm not disputing that Tomb Raider came before Uncharted. I'm also not disputing that Uncharted took elements from the Tomb Raider series. What I'm pointing out is that I've always viewed Uncharted as a watered down version of an exploration game (Tomb Raider) Which is fine Uncharted never set out to be that type of game but rather tell a really interesting story with interesting characters and lots of action.

With the latest Tomb Raider it certainly looks like the developers have decided to mimic the Uncharted series rather than continue doing what made the Tomb Raider series so fun to begin with.

1 up, 0 down

anjpikapp3
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:05:46 PM

@ Limited: I completely agree. :)

1 up, 0 down

CH1N00K
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:31:24 PM
Reply

From the trailer, you can tell that this is a game that shows how Lara became a Badass. I can understand where fans of the series may get upset, but at the same time, looking back at the last few Tomb Raider games, this game needed to be freshened up anyways. It was starting to feel it's age.

They probably could have done something a little different then a rape scene as that should not be glorified by any means, but on the same side, how many movies have you seen or books/comics have you read where there is some sleazy scum bag in the jungle who has tied up a young attractive woman(for whatever reason there is in the plot) What do these guys always try to do whenever they get a minute alone with the poor girl. This is not a new storyline...The only major difference is that in the game, some Hero in a spandex suit doesn't jump out, kick some ass and kiss the girl. In the new Tomb Raider, Lara has to save herself, which helps develop more of her badass imagery...This is nothing new, the developers have just made the game that hopefully the player will actually feel bad if they don't save Lara and bad things happen to her, and will do what they can to get her out of the situation. It's a bold move, a controversial move, but I will definitely be looking for more on this game as time goes on...

Last edited by CH1N00K on 6/13/2012 12:35:01 PM

0 up, 0 down

berserk
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 12:55:41 PM
Reply

LoL , like they will let us see her getting raped . He will try to rape her and if you fail to defend yourself he will simply kill you .

We see one of those supposed rape scene in 1 of the trailer , the moment you see that it s his intention to do so that lara is already defending herself . They will try but won t have time to do anything until they only care about killing her .

Maybe i m wrong but i highly doubt it .No one want an AO rating .

Last edited by berserk on 6/13/2012 12:57:09 PM

3 up, 0 down

atomaweapon
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:00:48 PM
Reply

I literally signed up to put my two cents in on this.

I am personally getting sick and tired of little uptight twat gamers whining and complaining about every single thing. And then talking to developers like trash.

I personally love this new look and direction, and feel like it's a fresh take on the character after 25 years of big tittied shoot em ups.

That little teenager douche bag can go **** himself, if he comes back with a respectful, valid argument, then people will listen.

6 up, 6 down

Highlander
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:14:19 PM

Personally I'm sick of cretins that sign up to call people twats for objecting to rape scenes in video games.

6 up, 13 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:38:13 PM

Come on Highlander, we should be welcoming more feedback in the comments section. I mean we put up with underscore guy so I'm sure we can put up with anyone.

8 up, 1 down

Neo_Aeon666
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:44:00 PM

Insults aside (and the last paragraph XD), I agree with you atoma. I do believe you argument would have come out better without the trash talk XD

And Highlander as far as I am concerned there is no *rape scene* in the new TR. She does not get raped. Yes the evil dude has that intention towards her but fails to do it thanks to Lara's growing survival/fighting spirit.

5 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:03:05 PM

Atoma, it's good to sign up and I totally agree but it may serve you well to wait five minutes before posting when you've been angered. The wording might come out better :)

7 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:04:10 PM

@LV: LOL, oh how wonderful a conclusion.

Last edited by Beamboom on 6/13/2012 3:05:14 PM

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:05:25 PM

I'm mad at you Beam, you totally threw me under the bus on the forums!

2 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:27:54 PM

"I literally signed up to put my two cents in on this"

Hmmm, all while you actually signed up in 7/9/2009

Wow, talk about your own little "Back to the future"...spooky!

4 up, 0 down

PoopsMcGee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:41:41 PM

LOL @ BikerSaint

XD

1 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:52:04 AM

@LV; Ah you've been mad at me before, you can handle it. ;)

(If you're serious I can explain what I meant there in the forum thread, but may I suggest we then take it to the forums instead, shall we?)

1 up, 0 down

gumbi
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:41:54 PM
Reply

gore/porn? WTF? Have I been watching the same footage as everyone else? Have I been reading the same news as everyone else? Where the hell did this crap come from?

So our young attractive heroine to be is being held captive by some less than morally upstanding gentlemen in the jungle. What? you think they want to play cribbage with her, or maybe discuss the weather? come on. She's put in a situation with the threat of rape and every prissy pants whine-ass decides that THAT's where they draw the line and decide get offended. This industry is chalked full of deplorable content, but this, this is where you draw the line? The idea of threatening a character with rape to create a sense of dread and urgency is what tips the scales?

I shake my head...

I, for one, think that everything I've seen of this reboot looks stellar. And YES, I played and enjoyed the originals back in the day.

11 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:47:10 PM
Reply

As much as I've bashed on the latest Tomb Raider game this type of thing may just get me to buy it!

::grin::

5 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:00:31 PM

Calm down Son, they aren't going to show it happen.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:04:50 PM

Nevermind, rental.

4 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:15:08 PM

Oh don't worry, somebody will continue those scenes with a CGI porn... right?

3 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:56:19 PM

Preorder!

6 up, 0 down

frylock25
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:33:17 PM

lv i have to say that your comments are always hilarious. dont ever leave psx lol. when you havent been commenting for a while i figure your out picking your new scarf but your humor is always great.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:39:22 PM

Ha...sometimes I get too busy with my social life (it is there, I promise) and work. Even when I don't post I still frequent the site in order to get my gaming news.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 1:54:50 PM
Reply

I like the new direction, I think it's a good way to reboot the series by starting her off as totally human.

The freak makes a point, however if you drop a hot woman into a dangerous situation where there's a lot of undersexed troglodytes, the most realistic situation is that they are all going to try to rape her. I'm sorry but that's just how it is.

6 up, 0 down

Nickjcal
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:02:00 PM

Right on the money, that's the way our world is sometimes, sadly. In most movies we see today, if the guy is a killer, he always get sidetracked by the womans beauty and forgets his original motive to just kill her, instead he chooses to take his time. Which always ends up with him getting killed anyways haha.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:08:06 PM

It's true, I mean the statistics are out there and personally in my time on this earth many women have disclosed to me the fact of their sexual assault. The numbers are staggering and guys are pretty evil these days.

I am not indifferent to it by any means. I get Highlander's passion on the issue, it pisses me off too. Still, denying the truth and making things PG-13 doesn't change anything. I think this kind of art should work within the framework of reality and I think this game is going for something a little less Indiana Jones than Uncharted and a little more gritty realism.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 6/13/2012 2:08:36 PM

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:42:08 PM

Meh... we're all just animals. Unfortunately sometimes there are men (and women) that act more like the animals we've evolved from.

2 up, 1 down

La_Bete12
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:01:50 PM
Reply

People get offended way too easily nowadays. I'm not just meaning this but in general, it's way to easy to offend someone or to be "racist" (I know that sounds really random but you get my point lol)

Either way this game really does sound intriguing, and regardless of the raping I'm actually thinking of preordering it. Rape/murder and other versions of nasty crimes have always been found in video games, and I kind of like having it in this situation since it does make it more realistic and difficult. This doesn't make the game sexist at all in my opinion.

On a side note as well, I tend to have a lot less respect for people who use so much swearing as that young lady did in her mega rant. There are a lot more mature knowledgeable words that could be used in that situation.

0 up, 1 down

PharaohJR
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:21:24 PM
Reply

i cant see what the problem is with the rape issue. in GTA your able to pick up prostitutes go to strip clubs & have the ability to murder them before/ after but nobody speaks on that. in my eyes 1 who forces they sexual behavior on another is a weak existing being. if a game demonstrates the reality of the scenario a female faces when encountered with predators who has the ability to defend there position i see no wrong in it. does this aspect have to be included..... no, the game can go without it but its a primary aspect that transcends alot of females into a warrior.

i grew up on tomb raider & me viewing rape for what is wont change me from playing this new TR title that introduces her structure. since folks have a issue with it i hope dvelopers give the option like CODMW did with the terrorists level.

0 up, 0 down

Comic Shaman
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:40:38 PM
Reply

Quite a diatribe, and what the hell is a "weak, Whedon-flavored heroine" anyway? Seems kind of a contradiction in terms.

This is a major shift for the character and the franchise, and I can see why some people aren't going to buy in. Fair enough. But it also seems like there's a hell of a lot of speculation based on a few minutes of trailer footage and some of the developer comments. The final verdict is far from in at this point.

Personally, I'm intrigued by the fresh direction. I do hope that it won't all be as grim and serious in tone as we're seeing in the early materials. A bit more humor here and there, perhaps?

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:50:01 PM

What does whedon taste like?

0 up, 0 down

Comic Shaman
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 4:29:26 PM

After this summer? Money.

0 up, 0 down

slugga_status
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 2:56:46 PM
Reply

Look, I get the supposed position(s) that she will be in. What I don't get is why it needed to be in the game..they certainly could've done something different..they could've did anything.

People have just became desensitized and that's all there is to it.

Last edited by slugga_status on 6/13/2012 3:01:26 PM

4 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:04:32 PM

Fifty years ago the desensitized argument was being used to explain married couples sleeping in the same bed on TV.

Videogames are no longer just about a guy with a mustache jumping on turtles and eating mushrooms to get bigger.

If you take issue with the rape aspect of the game what are your feelings on the countless depictions of murder?

3 up, 1 down

matt99
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 5:35:55 PM

Exactly LV, to me the point blank executions in GTA are just as bad as a rape scene, especially since it's the user committing the act. Having said that I'm perfectly fine including those things in a game as mature adults should be able to understand the difference between a game and reality.

1 up, 1 down

slugga_status
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 7:58:39 AM

There's a difference..murder is linked with death. Death has been in video games since it's existence in some form or another. There for in games it's always been life and death. Thru time they just show more gore. For example seeing Kratos expose a enemies intestines..Many of us have already seen the inside of animals via biology class in high school (cats, dogs, pigs, etc.).

Rape is an entirely different situation. Most people haven't seen a rape taking place with their own eyes. You don't know how people who've been in those situations feel. It doesn't belong in a video game.

If you accept rape in video games then I take it you wouldn't have a problem accepting child molestation either. What if there was a Jerry Sandusky video game..by your terms you'd find that acceptable.

There's a time and place for everything. I'm an adult and I understand it's just a game. But this crap doesn't belong

2 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:09:52 AM

I like how you quickly assume I'd be okay with a game involving an older man molesting a bunch of kids simply because I'm pointing out that your argument is flawed. As if the inclusion of rape automatically equates to a molestation game centered around an older man fondling little boys.

You're okay with murder in games? Wow...I guess you'd be okay with a game where an older man goes around the neighborhood killing all the children, eh?

I've never witnessed a murder/committed a murder/known anyone that got murdered. Yet I play plenty of games that involve murder. Are you really going to justify murder in games because it's been going on in games since the beginning? So I guess using your logic we should have started with rape sooner than you wouldn't have an issue with it.

Someone very close to me died in a car crash. Should I object to any form of game that depicts realistic crashes? Where do you draw the line? Evidently with you it's whatever you deem to be too offensive. Which brings up my original point. Fifty years ago it was about married couples sleeping in the same bed on television.

0 up, 3 down

slugga_status
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:24:16 AM

Actually..I wasn't making an argument in regards to anything. My original comment was merely a statement. You clearly missed the point..You're saying it's ok b/c we games display murder.

In regards to murder, seems you missed the point there. From Mario to space defenders you're always involved of destroying or killing something. There weren't many games in which you got a "Try Again" screen when failure happened. It's always "Game Over" or "You're Dead" etc.

Again, you still missed the point. Murder and death has been part of games forever. Do you think the video game industry succeeds to what we have today without it?

Matter of fact I'm not going to continue b/c it's clear you don't really understand what is being said. You're ok with RAPE in a game..as if CHILD MOLESTATION is any different than rape. It's a form of rape of young children. But I guess you don't get that...

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:32:55 AM

I find it funny that you keep trying to justify murder (the ending of someone's life as in PERMANENT) because it's a requirement for games to function and has been spoon fed to us since the early days of gaming. But rape which does not end someone's life is off limits.

Again why is it off limits other than your own personal reasoning which is extremely flawed?

0 up, 1 down

frostface
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:17:43 PM
Reply

Violence and rape in movies ok.

Violence and rape in video games no ok?

And I thought we were in an age when video games came with age ratings so ADULTS can choose to play or not play what they like.

So there's an attempted rape in the game. No doubt she'll escape and maybe torture the S.O.B. trying to rape her Lisbeth Salander style and we'll all be able to cheer...Hurrah!!!

Lets hold judgement until the full product is released and judge it then on how it was handled. I personally think the game looks great and the more news I hear pouring out about this game, the more excited I'm getting to try it. It doesn't in the slightest sound like they're throwing it in gratuitously. With the way they're making Lara out to be vulnerable (since this is an origins story), this all fits in with what makes her a badass later in life.

Sure they could of used something other than rape, but then again what? It's an action game, I'm sure she'll be experiencing many more tragic and socially unacceptable scenarios, no different than Nathan Drake killing a bunch of guys throughout his adventure. But are we desensitised to people getting shot dead through our adventures that we don't think of the Nathan Drake as a serial killer? He does kill a lot of people, that's not a spud gun he's using.

The attempted rape thing is something unique to Lara, something inflicted on her while she is vulnerable. Would having her tortured be more appropriate? I'm sure that'll happen anyway but if not that than what? I'm in no way trivialising rape. But for the setting of the story if handled correctly, it'll have us really rooting for her.

2 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:51:44 PM
Reply

If the next Manhunt started out in prison and you had to save yourself from a rape by slaughtering the other dudes would anyone complain?

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 4:02:23 PM

Could it be an ex-cellmate you had a previous relationship with?

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 5:24:40 PM

In your case, yes :)

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 3:55:30 PM
Reply

Here, if you really care about this issue do something about it:

http://www.change.org/petitions/alejandra-s-wish-stop-the-deportation-of-blanca-medina?

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 6/13/2012 3:55:44 PM

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 4:03:26 PM

Is this the new version of the Rickroll?

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 8:09:49 PM

World, good looking out!

I actually signed that same petition too earlier today

1 up, 0 down

DjEezzy
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 4:23:55 PM
Reply

well the story and game in general just looks much more "Human". This... Again... Gets a big meh. I swear gamers (none really at this site) are just a bunch of grown up kids whining about how they aren't getting their way. It's absolutely ridiculous and extremely unfortunate. Seems like most of these reboots and new ip's are running in the category of "Damned if you do, Damned if you dont" It's really sad to see the entitlement of these so called gamers. Gives us mature gamers a bad name to be honest. Totally gives us the age old stereotype that we have now. Do i care??? Not at all. I'm just going to keep playing my games and looking forward to whats coming instead of dreading everything new thats on the horizon. Like buck the F*** up you grown up crybabies. Look on the bright side of things. Have a little happiness in your life!!! From the way these people talk you would think they were straight emo who hate anything thats not death. LOL. "My only happiness is death and sorrow, and the sun kills my soul" LOL. Ridiculous...

0 up, 2 down

tes37
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 6:55:51 PM
Reply

Although the game looks good, I may have to pass. You don't have to be disgusting or depraved when creating mature content. I believe some people are losing track of what's fun and what is not. I don't want to be bothered with protecting my character's goodies.

3 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 8:23:01 PM

Games aren't all about fun anymore. Though Lollipop Chainsaw is :)

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 8:30:20 PM

Or...or....your fun may be different from my fun.

I can honestly go from The Care Bears Movie (I own the original VHS and Record soundtrack) to Act1 of I Spit on Your Grave (Act2 is meh) without any hesitation.

1 up, 0 down

tes37
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 8:56:27 PM

World
Some content I just don't find entertaining, is a better way to put it. I believe you can be entertained without it being considered fun. Similar to a sad story you like that makes you cry, it was entertaining , but not fun. I think the two experiences can be separate, though they don't stray far from each other.

LV
You'll get no criticism from me about what you consider fun. :)

1 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:43:36 PM

You make a great point tes about a sad movie being entertaining but not necessarily fun.

1 up, 0 down

ethird1
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 8:35:36 PM
Reply

Wow. A bunch of lesbian feminists are made that Lara is young, hot,and needs a man?

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

2 up, 4 down

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 8:56:19 PM

Rude

4 up, 1 down

SaiyanSempai
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:32:37 AM
Reply

Interesting article Ben. Irregardless of the content, it always bugs me when people voice their opinion amidst a stream of F-bombs. Its good to be passionate and voice your opinion, but they should do it in a way that doesn't turn readers completely off. Or at least do it in a way that doesn't make them seem like a whiny little brat.

2 up, 1 down

___________
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 5:43:06 AM
Reply

jesus tap dancing christ people love blowing things WAY out of proportion!
all the guy does is grab her and try to kiss her, people are reacting like he tortured her and tied her down or something!
the whole point of this is suppose to depict, to show why and how lara became the a$$ kicker we know and love!
to become that you kinda have to be exposed to these things to change you, its nice to finally be able to see what made one of the industries biggest mascots who she is!
i love the whole vulnerable feel, id be just another mindless action game, just like like every other TR game out there, without it!
the vulnerability is the only reason why so many people are interested in it!
its the only reason why IGN gave it game of show!

3 up, 1 down

phelps1247
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:12:05 AM
Reply

Think of the rough sex scene in Red Dead Redemption, the brothel/bar in Max Payne 3, the scenes in Dante's Inferno. Video games have and will continue to show sex, violence and gore which is why the PEGI system is in place. The new tombraider is to be rated 18 but as the devs have stated "Sexual Assualt is not a theme we cover".

0 up, 0 down

Robochic
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:09:43 PM
Reply

I'm a woman and i have no problem with it, it's not like they are going to actually show anything. What i don't get is people are ok with rape, murder ect... in GTA but not in this game is it because your playing a male not a female? two sided argument i know but it's the damn truth.
I'm very interested in this game and will be picking it up to me it's like I always say you don't like something fine but don't screw it up for other people who may :)

2 up, 0 down

poisonedsodapop
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:35:09 PM

I have to agree, also as a female gamer. I have no issue with her fighting against a potential rapist. She's going through hell and it's just another major obstacle she must overcome to survive. I doubt it's the absolute one that will form her character, just one of the many.

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:03:11 PM

For the record. I'm not OK with anything in GTA that you described happening. I own none of those games and have never played them. Nor do I think it matters which gender the main character is, there are things I'd rather not have as part of the entertainment I consume.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/14/2012 3:04:02 PM

0 up, 0 down

Yaz
Friday, June 15, 2012 @ 7:14:49 AM
Reply

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. It's nice to see that Lara isn't some boobylicious heroine the kills things without remorse. I'm looking forward to this game release. Nice change of pace from the usual Tomb Raider games.

0 up, 0 down

Yaz
Friday, June 15, 2012 @ 7:19:56 AM
Reply

Seriously, why does everyone get so upset over this? I'm a girl, I hardly think "rape" scenes in a video game are exploiting something. It's probably just for immersion or whatever. It's only as bad as you let it be. If you just realize that it's just a game, it's no problem. Rape in reality isn't a good thing by any means, but in a game? Hardly any reason to go crazy about.

0 up, 0 down

Yaz
Friday, June 15, 2012 @ 7:27:33 AM
Reply

Why is everyone getting so upset about the "rape" thing? I'm a girl, I don't mind. It's a game, it's not real. I don't support rape, I don't think it's a good thing at all, but in a game, meh. Not that big a deal. It's only as big a deal as you let it be.

0 up, 0 down

zard
Tuesday, June 19, 2012 @ 10:25:02 AM
Reply

Honestly I feel like the gamer sounds like he is missing the unlockable bikini more than the badass. Because that is all Lara Croft was before this game. She was an emotionless piece of eye candy. He is obviously a male for ranting that way. As a female I can see where Crystal Dynamics is going with the rape. Because as a female who plays games, I get shot at all the time! Characters are always shot at, set on fire ext. but raped? First of all that is the single most terrifying thing for a woman and would certainly make me want to fight back. Getting shot at? Maybe that would make a man want to fight but a chick? I would run and hide. This is the first Tomb Raider I feel I will enjoy and the first time a female character has been so believable. Maybe if Nathan Drake had a scene where he was getting ass raped men would understand the terror and fight that would put in them. There is no greater violence than sexual violence no matter how many guns are shot. They struck a nerve with this one obviously and I think that the fact that so many people are riled up about it proves it worked. This is what art is about.

0 up, 0 down

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Some Gamers Aren't Big Fans Of Lara's Fresh Vulnerability

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