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Nobody Really Thought Lara Would Get Raped...Did They?

Obviously, the information that Lara Croft might face some sexually dicey situations in the Tomb Raider reboot didn't go over well.

Many were annoyed that developer Crystal Dynamics had seemingly erased the heroine's patented confidence and womanly sexuality. Furthermore, many were offended and disgusted at the possibility that her "toughness" would arise from fighting off the sexual advances of enemies. However, as I was when I read the Mass Effect 3 ending reactions, I was once again surprised at the level of hostility emanating from certain gamers.

I was also certain the studio would be surprised as well. That much was verified in my mind when they released an official statement, explaining that executive producer Ron Rosenberg's comments were misconstrued. They said what we saw at E3 was about as far as anything was going to go and if that's true (and we have no reason to doubt it), Lara's tenuous situations won't be in the least offensive or in bad taste. I think what's happening here is two-fold and awfully interesting, especially from the gaming culture standpoint.

First and foremost is the perceived change in personality of a video game icon. Obviously, as the reboot is a prequel, we're watching Lara come into her own, so-to-speak, so she hasn't yet developed that trademark cockiness. Now, it has been proven time and time again that when you significantly alter a game icon, you're going to feel the heat of the guaranteed backlash. Ninja Theory has been feeling it for a while now; the DMC reboot and its "heroin-addict protagonist" isn't going over well with hardcore fans of the franchise. And remember when Sucker Punch changed Cole (inFamous) a little too much...?

Secondly - and this actually arises from the first point - there's the protectiveness gamers often feel for their favorite heroes and heroines. Whether you liked the games or not, many of us grew up with Lara. And to hear that she'll be facing some of the worst situations a woman can face is admittedly difficult. For me, it's almost like watching a sister in danger and I've never even finished a Tomb Raider game. She's just such a huge part of the gaming culture now, and it's understandable that so many were pissed off at seeing the footage and reading that "cornered animal" info.

But I mean...did people really think Crystal Dynamics would go further than what we saw in the E3 trailer? As we all know by now, developers often show off the most intense parts of a game in any big-reveal trailer; they've been doing it with movies for years. It's called advertising and promotion. I never once expected Lara to be screaming under some brute as he rips off her clothes, and I'm shocked that any serious gamer would anticipate anything close to such a scene. Furthermore, if we're going to fully embrace the authenticity and reality of this new effort, we have to do so with no reservations. We have to accept the atmosphere.

There's no doubt that Lara would face certain issues given her circumstances. It'd be inevitable, actually. So must we cut out even any allusion to such difficulties just because we all have a certain attachment to an icon? I say, let the storytellers do their thing. If they step over the line - and I seriously doubt they will - then we can nail 'em. Until then, I'm not sure certain reactions are warranted in the slightest.

Related Game(s): Tomb Raider

Tags: tomb raider, tomb raider reboot, lara croft, crystal dynamics

6/13/2012 8:55:45 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (119 posts)

LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:29:14 PM
Reply

Wait a second...you've never finished a Tomb Raider game?!?!?!!?!?!?


Ugh...I'm a little disappointed.


Oh and yeah I'd like to point out I wasn't one of the people taking issue with the whole rape thing.

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comicozi
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:33:45 PM

niether was i.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:40:52 PM

Yeah well the difference is I wasn't being a jerk about it. You were name calling and attacking people.

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comicozi
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:59:59 PM

um no read my next post down

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:24:12 PM

Tomb Raider was mostly big during my RPG days. And the later TR entries didn't seem good enough to earn my attention.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:26:07 PM

I never finished a Tomb Raider game either. :)

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:32:26 PM

Hmm...I'll never forget Christmas 96. My parents got me the game for PC and the graphics were amazing at that time. People may not remember but at that time really the only other 3rd person game worth playing was Alone in the Dark and Resident Evil.

The 3rd level had you encounter a T-Rex! You're walking through this huge jungle area and hear the noise of something big and next thing you know there is a T-Rex after you.

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matt99
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:34:19 PM

I'll one up all of you...I've never even played a tomb raider game.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:37:47 PM

Okay now I'm getting pissy. Tomb Raider 1-3 offer some of the best adventure gaming you can have, EVER.

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CH1N00K
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:41:24 PM

Tomb Raider? isn't that just an Uncharted Knock off??







Just kidding, I just want to see what happens when LV's head explodes...lol

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:33:53 PM

Don't misunderstand: Just about everyone I knew loved TR, so I definitely SAW the games. And I well remember seeing it for the first time; even I was impressed, and all I really cared about was going home to beat Suikoden (I think that was the RPG I was playing at the time).

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 8:53:19 AM

Tomb Raider was my first game for PSX...Lara Croft, my first crush.

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slugga_status
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 9:27:10 AM

Loved me some Tomb Raider..only beat 1-3..didn't bother with the later ones..Trying, Underworld ( I think) since it was free and going to get the other free one for Plus as well..

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shadowpal2
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 9:55:15 PM

Never got into Tomb Raider because of the character herself. Hated Lara Croft - didn't seem real at all with that ridiculous cocky attitude of hers, athleticism of an olympian while having ridiculous implants and all.

Yes...it annoyed me that much. Because if I couldn't like the character I was playing - I could never get into a game.

BUT NOW...she SEEMS QUITE DAMN REAL and like an ACTUAL HUMAN. I'm loving the change, and can't wait to play my first Tomb Raider game.

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Underdog15
Friday, June 15, 2012 @ 9:08:28 AM

With a real good sports bra, she could be super agile without them getting in the way.

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frostface
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:46:40 PM
Reply

I won't call this Mass Effect 3 part 2 because even though I've no problem if the scene was gonna be full on (I think as adults we can handle mature topics), unlike the ridiculous reaction to the ending of ME3, this actually was something worth getting in a tizzy about. It's obviously a sensitive subject having rape in a game and here some gamers expressed their displeasure and it's understandable. Glad that it was cleared up so hopefully now everyone will enjoy the game.

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Sir Shak
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:52:14 AM

I think a lot of people also don't feel it makes much sense for the character. If you take Uncharted 3, for example, it's entirely plausible that the fifteen year old kid shown in the game turned into the Drake we know today. But maybe it is not so readily acceptable that this weak, sheltered, sexual assault(or attempted) victim was spurred by this nightmarish experience to seek out other "adventures" in the future.

Last edited by Sir Shak on 6/14/2012 12:52:45 AM

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comicozi
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:46:59 PM
Reply

@ lv prior comment


i made two commments show me where i name called and attacked anyone. You sir have me mixed up with someone else.

Last edited by comicozi on 6/13/2012 9:47:48 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:12:17 PM

You told one of the most respected posters here (Highlander) to grow up and that no one cared about his moral BS. That's good enough for me to label you a meany pants.

It's no biggie, I'm just making sure you know that I know.

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SaiyanSempai
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 2:26:06 AM

He said WHAT to Highlander??!! Comicozi...respectfully disagreeing is great. But THAT, sir, was anything but.

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tes37
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:48:47 PM
Reply

This generation of gaming has been rather strange, so I thought it was possible. I wasn't shocked though, just uninterested.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:50:32 PM

^gramps

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tes37
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:54:16 PM

^tramps



j/k

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:09:37 PM

Why jk :(

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tes37
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:20:18 PM

It's an old age trait.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:22:30 PM

Pff I'm 30 and I'm sure you're not much older (even if you're a KISS fan)

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tes37
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:27:19 PM

I'm 42. I'm more of a fan of Ace Frehley and Peter Criss' contribution to Kiss.



Last edited by tes37 on 6/13/2012 10:35:14 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:33:33 PM

I feel like we've had this conversation before.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/13/2012 10:33:44 PM

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tes37
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:36:06 PM

It was close. I didn't name any names before.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:38:46 PM

I'm listening to JPop while we have this conversation and I think that's funny.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:14:10 PM

I don't know much about Jpop, but I do know the soundtrack to Fooly Cooly (FLCL) is some of the greatest Japanese music of all time.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:21:25 PM

The group Perfume is the greatest thing to come out of Japan besides Sony.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:34:45 PM

Hey, hey, HEY...OT everywhere.

I always let it slide with the PSXE vets but I mean...

I think it's all LV's fault. ;)

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:55:21 PM

Ya...my bad I'm the OT master sometimes. I mean no harm with it.

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CH1N00K
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 9:50:34 PM
Reply

It was a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of one persons comment, and in this generation of viral media, it got blown way out of proportion. Instead of over-reacting, does anyone believe in just putting up a hand (albeit a virtual one) and asking, "Excuse me, can you perhaps clarify on this?"

Of course, if no one had of raised a fuss about it, it would have been interesting to see if the developers would have felt the need to issue a correction or had thought that they said something wrong...

Anyone know if the guy who blew his top on the quoted posts has issued an apology of any kind for perhaps "overreacting"? My bet is on no...

Last edited by CH1N00K on 6/13/2012 9:51:52 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:13:18 PM

I'm glad it blew up, it makes for interesting reading and conversation.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:10:01 PM
Reply

No I don't think anyone thought Lara would get raped, but the idea that it was going to be an obvious outcome in the mind of the gamer was offensive to some.

*Spoiler about Dead Island*

I have to say I was totally bummed that all those guys gang-raped Jin but nobody ever talked about it like this so it's obviously about the high profile nature of Lara in this case.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:12:47 PM

Ugh I've yet to play the game and so I ignored your comment due to the spoiler.

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slugga_status
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 9:35:48 AM

That's exactly what is was for me World..Haven't played Dead Island yet..ridiculous backlog..but I had no idea that was in the game..

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Mdash0009
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:25:53 PM
Reply

Paragraph 6, line 2. It says "what we say in E3", think you meant "what we saw".

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:39:18 PM

Really?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:36:12 PM

Yes, fixed.

.....I'd go on some rant about how many articles I have to proofread in any given day, week, month and year, but I'm in a good mood. ;)

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matt99
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 10:33:22 PM
Reply

Well this is what happens when people jump to conclusions.

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ShiorixZetsu
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:18:42 PM
Reply

I must be like the only female gamer that is not offended by that scene of lara being assaulted by a guy in or something. Call me weird if you want. As long as Lara is built back up into the tomb raiding bad ass we know and love I welcome this reboot and can't wait to play this game next year

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:25:13 PM

sup


::flex::

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:37:00 PM

LOL @ LV

Of course, now all the members must flex to impress.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:40:40 PM

LOL! LV...haha. I'm glad you're back.

Shiorix, I consider myself a pretty traditional guy and I tend to loathe this kind of material but from what I saw(and I assume it's what people are upset about) I wasn't offended either. I've seen worse in movies and anyone claiming there is a difference is kidding themselves.

Last edited by Jawknee on 6/13/2012 11:41:29 PM

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Clamedeus
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:46:15 PM

Lol LV xD

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:04:11 AM

Most of the female gamers I've met are a lot more level headed than the rest about what is contained in entertainment. That may be anecdotal but it just seems to keep coming true.

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Beamboom
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 5:53:09 AM

Actually, ShiorixZetsu, you are not alone. There was a girl in the comments field after the first article on this subject who essentially said the same as you say here.

It's funny how it typically are adult males who get most upset in these kind of topics than females. Must be some age old protection instinct that kicks in, or something.


Last edited by Beamboom on 6/14/2012 5:53:49 AM

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Underdog15
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 9:23:18 AM

I wasn't really bothered by anything I've seen at E3, and I assumed people were over-reacting.

But I do admittedly get a little antsy about the topic material. My sister went through a bad experience that messed her up for a good long while, so admittedly, even in situations that serve to develop a character well and that kind of assault isn't even close to glorified, I just hate thinking about it. If that makes any sense.

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:03:09 AM

That makes perfect sense to me Underdog.

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:40:48 AM

Beamboom,

"It's funny how it typically are adult males who get most upset in these kind of topics than females. Must be some age old protection instinct that kicks in, or something."

It's not typically adult males that get most upset. The people that get most upset are the people that have been victims of such crimes in the past and are still living with that horror. For the most part they are not capable of expressing their outrage because of the trauma they have experienced. Perhaps adult males who have (due to their age) matured, and have a strong moral compass, find such offenses to be highly offensive and obscene? Could it be that such men are utterly ashamed of the men that do not find such events to be objectionable? I don't like that there are certain crimes that are essentially males attacking females. There are many times when the behaviors and attitudes of men in general make me feel embarrassed by my own gender.

I'm not sure that you needed to use the phrase "old age protection instinct". Whether a person has a knight in shining armor side to their personality or not. Parents, husbands, partners and brothers can all imagine how they would feel if someone they hold dear was subjected to such a crime. That should be enough to make anyone in that classification find rape and sexual assault offensive when included in entertainment. Your use of that phrase kind of comes off as dismissive when put along side the other comment about it being 'funny' that adult males object.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:00:39 AM

I understand your position Underdog, it's personal. I don't think anyone is going to bash you for that.

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Clamedeus
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:47:03 PM
Reply

I know this is off topic, but I wanted to let everyone know that it's my birthday today! <3 all

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 13, 2012 @ 11:55:49 PM

Well happy birthday! Might I ask how old are you today?




This is OT but I'm sure Ben will let it slide since it's your birthday.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:06:43 AM

'sigh' I suppose.

Happy b-day. ;)

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Clamedeus
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:12:25 AM

Thanks Ben! Haha sorry about that.

LV I'm 24 now. I feel old. :/

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La_Bete12
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:43:24 AM

Feliz cumpleonos! =D

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SaiyanSempai
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 2:30:32 AM

Happy birthday! :)

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Clamedeus
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:09:15 AM

Thanks everyone. :D

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BikerSaint
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 4:08:07 PM

Happy B-Day!!!

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FatherSun
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 5:15:40 PM

Happy Birthday! Its your own personal Holiday!

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THEVERDIN
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:12:31 AM
Reply

Ok I'm an old man what does OT mean?

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:13:56 AM

OT = Off topic

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pillz81
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:51:39 PM

I was caught off-guard with what OT meant as well. Two days until I turn 31 and I am complaining about the younguns.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:07:08 AM
Reply

Back on topic. I understand how people get pissy when you mess with their characters but there's a good reason this time at least. I bet by the end we are going to see her getting the hang of stuff and being brazen about it. It's not like the original Lara had a ton of interesting personality traits so this is a chance to deepen her story and folks should applaud that. If any game needed a reboot it was TR.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:14:20 AM

No, if any game needed a reboot it's most certainly Blaster Master.

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CH1N00K
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:44:07 AM

Bubble bobble...lol

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YashaZz
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:04:17 AM

Bulls eye World, was waiting someone to speak my thoughts out.

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berserk
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:53:05 AM
Reply

" Furthermore, many were offended and disgusted at the possibility that her "toughness" would arise from fighting off the sexual advances of enemies "


Sadly i saw i couple of people thinking this .Did nt they saw any of the trailers .There is so much more showed in those then the " rape " scene that will help on making her Lara croft we all know and love .

There is so much stuff she need to survive too and ordeals she got to go through to think that the possibility of a rape is the only thing that will make her the Lara we know .

It s just ridiculous to think so in my mind if you saw the trailers and gameplay footage .

It s clear to me that her "toughness" will ARISE because of so much more then just rape possibility .

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 2:13:20 AM
Reply

Funny, I never even paid attention to the whole situation. I just... accepted it. Sure, it's a horrific thing to think about portraying, but isn't that a core tenet of entertainment gaining maturity? Not shying away from really serious themes?

I don't care if it's "stepping over the line" or whatever, it's about growing up. If we're afraid to face such situations and if we kick up sh*tstorms about them every time they're even suggested, then we'll never get anywhere. Ignore me, I'm talking bollocks.

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:55:10 AM
Reply

Well now, misconstrued how exactly? the quote from Rosenberg was quite plain in it's wording. He did use the word rape, and suggested it would be multiple times. Don't get me wrong, I am clad that they clarified the situation. Hoever, it's pretty hard to misconstrue comments that are as direct as those Rosenberg is quoted as giving.

I still stand by the single, simple, point. Rape has no place in entertainment. If the story specifically demands that such a scene exists, and it's merited, then I guess it's justifiable in the sense of being a realitic and gritty portrayal of the horror the character goes through. However, the point still remains, rape has no place in entertainment.

But since the clarification appears to say that this is not a part of their game, I guess it will all blow over until the next game producer shoots off their mouth in an ill-advised way.

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Shams
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 8:52:22 AM

Yup, sexual assault pretty much implies only one thing: and we're not talking about a kiss on the cheek (although that could certainly count as one).

I thought about the topic some more, and it seemed to me while violence at times can be used in scenarios of good or evil, sexual assault is always wrong. Of course, there are plenty of games that explore violence for the sake of violence, which would be called "gratuitous"...such as MK, or Manhunt. I never cared for those games, though, Ninja Gaiden has been a guilty pleasure of mine.

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:30:54 AM

@Shams,
Indeed. Gratuitous violence always makes me uncomfortable, and the degree of violence and especially gratuitous violence is a pretty good barometer of whether the game has a chance of being played by me. Sexual violence by it's very nature sits quite high on the scale of violence.

@everyone else who can't understand why anyone would object to this sort of thing.

First of all, this was the quote from Ben's article that I and others reacted to;

"Rosenberg even says there will be times when scavengers attempt to rape Lara,"

Secondly, here is the quote from Kotaku;

"She'll get taken prisoner by island scavengers. And then, Rosenberg says, those scavengers will try to rape her."

Rape and sexual assault are offenses against a person, they are pure brutality in it's most raw form. They are the most personal violent attacks that can occur short of actual murder. If it needs to be said, I shall say it, that victims of rape and other sexual assaults receive injuries that go far deeper than any physical injuries. Even with an attempted murder, the victim physically recovers and the long term injuries that the victim faces are really nothing like what a rape victim has to deal with.

It really bothers me the way the word 'rape' has entered casual use in all manner of settings. 'Rape' does not mean simply or beat someone or something overwhelmingly - which is the meaning I see a lot of people using the word to imply. Rape is an act of violent violation of a person's most personal and private physical and emotional space. Such attacks can destroy the victim's life. Rape is simply not in any way a laughing matter, or suitable subject matter for entertainment. But the expanded use of the word 'rape' to cover different meanings, and the inclusion of rapes and other sexual assaults - or the implication that such events may or have happened - in TV, Movies and other entertainment does diminish the impact of the actual events.

Desensitization is a real thing. There are behavioral modification therapies that are used by psychologists to help patients with all manner of entrenched fears and behaviors. behavioral modification in many ways is the use of desensitization to reduce the fear and anxiety that is driving the behavior. So don't ignore or dismiss the idea that people are becoming desensitized to rape and other sexual assaults.

Now, I don't honestly expect everyone to follow my personal moral compass, but you know, there are certain things that are universally abhorrent. Rape should be, and certainly used to be, something that all people regardless of gender, found abhorrent. The fact that several people actually attacked me for objecting to the use of rape in a game is very disappointing and concerning. I can not think of any reason why anyone objecting to the use of rape or sexual assault events in a video game should have to defend their objection. That's just asinine.

You know, once again I am reminded of the Roman Empire, the Colosseum and the 'bread and circuses' provided to keep the populace distracted. It wasn't just Christians fed to lions you know...the audiences at the colosseum witnessed all manner of brutality in the guise of entertainment.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:59:38 AM

You're wrong Shams. There are several different forms of sexual assault. I only know of one degree of death.

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Edito
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 5:39:42 AM
Reply

im disappointed with The New Tomb Raider... i used to love the franchise from 1 to 4 and Anniversary...

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___________
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 6:47:19 AM
Reply

this is a perfect example of whats wrong with the industry today.
they COMPLETELY blow things out of proportion!
another thing that really irks me is their refusal of change.
allot are whining that lara is a pu**y girl, why wha wha wha shes suppose to be a killing bad a$$!
this is a prequel, whole point of this game is to show how lara became lara!
so of course shes going to start off as a pu**y and build her way up to being the bad a$$ we know and love!
happened today i went to EB to pick up deus ex again really want to play it through again, and while i was there i got into a discussion about exactly this.
guy behind the counter was whining that its not lara, that the whole point of tomb raider was to leap around destroying everything!
my face instantly turned red and i had to say bye and walk out before i leaped over the counter and slapped the lights out of him!

REALLY pisses me off the restrictiveness people have these days!
PoP and red faction guerilla are 2 other perfect examples.
so many people whined till their faces were blue that said games were not proper games from said franchises.
guerilla was so different for a red faction game.
maybe thats why it was called a spin off you idiots!
same goes to the fantasy remake of PoP!
yes they were totally different to the franchises roots, but why is that such a bad thing?
it was still such a awesome fun game!

TR is a prequel, whole point of the game is to show how the legend was created!
if anything crystal should be applauded and praised for having the balls to do something different, not condemned to hell for it!
exactly what really pisses me off this gen!
so many people whine that there are very few different unique games, but first off do they do anything about it?
nope!
they b*tch that all we get is COD wannabes but there always the first in line to pick them up!
as cliffy B said, haters will hate all the way to the cash register!
2nd when we actually get something that is different and unique there first in line to b*tch till their faces are blue that its totally different!

crystal should be applauded for having the balls to do something different, not condemned!
they could of just as easily churned out another mindless TR action game!
but they dident, they sat back and said hey how can we bring something new to the industry?
oh well no one else will do it so i will.
THANK YOU CRYSTAL DYNAMICS!
thank you for having the balls to do something different, and having the balls to step over the line!
instead of following the sheep off the cliff sticking to the safe and known.
as miyamotto said the other day this industry has become lazy!
FAR too safe ridden.

i tell you what its disgusting how condemned creative freedom has become these days!
as every day passes i feel more and more like the world is turning into communist china!


Last edited by ___________ on 6/14/2012 6:53:01 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:47:37 AM

You know. I absolutely hate the way that people use 'freedom of speech' and 'artistic freedom' or 'freedom of expression' to defend just about anything. People will say the most hateful things and then claim 1st amendment protection in the US. People will include the most despicable acts of violence, torture, and sexual violence in movies, TV and literature and people defend it as 'artistic freedom'. The label 'torture porn' exists for a reason, and artistic freedom does not represent an excuse for it.

Regardless of the merits of the Tomb Raider reboot and the controversy caused by Rosenberg's remarks, please do not go down the route of excusing all manner of things with thinks like freedom of expression.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:26:48 AM

You actually read all of that? As soon as I see the ____ I scrolly the mousey.

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___________
Friday, June 15, 2012 @ 10:02:41 AM

obviously gotta draw the line somewhere.
but there is nothing in that scene that warrants the backlash the poor team has received!
if it actually WAS a rape scene than ok fine, but jesus tap dancing christ grabbing a girl and trying to kiss her is not rape!

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Miister47
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 6:50:49 AM
Reply

I love all your posts Ben but please! no spoiler post!! :-(

Those games are much more enjoyable when you don't know anything about them...When a good game is coming, i'm trying to avoid trailer, news, and everything because in 2012 with all those social new technolgies, you start playing a game and you already seen half of it on different site...
i think this break a lot the impact those game designers are trying hard to obtain...

Cheers man!

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:08:23 AM

If you're trying to avoid everything about a game, don't click on headlines. That's what news is.

There's nothing here that would qualify as a "spoiler," as I understand the definition of the term.

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Underdog15
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:59:22 PM

There's a difference between gameplay details and themes compared with like... lets say... coming in the comments and blind-siding everyone with exactly what happens at the conclusion of ME3 or FFXIII-2.

One example is a spoiler, the other is not.

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Solid Fantasy
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:04:53 AM
Reply

I feel like there are more pending issues going on the gaming world right now. This just seems so fickle. It's not as bad as the same sex relation deal in DAII, but it reminds me of it. Can't we just grow up and move onto more interesting stuff. For example: One of my friends talked to another friend who went to E3 and got an inside scoop that next gen consoles are slated for December 2013. I think most people predicted that and I certainly haven't talked to this friend of a friend (yet) but I though I would just throw that out there. Meanwhile Crystal Dynamics tries to broaden the story telling span in VGs and gets criticized for it...

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Beamboom
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:10:42 AM
Reply

Did I think so? Not at all. I found the whole discussion following that article to be so absurd that I couldn't get myself to engage in it. Just simply watched from a distance. :)

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Underdog15
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:26:08 AM

I didn't get involved because I was pretty sure there was no way a TR game would actually show rape in any way. I assumed it was all misinformation.

But if it was true, I wouldn't blame some people for disliking it, nor would I say their reaction to be absurd.

The only reason it's absurd is because it ended up being untrue. Know what I'm saying?

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:42:51 AM

Reading his quotes made it certainly sound like they were going to do something, but the thought of them showing it or even the audio of it was hard for me to wrap my mind around as well. I don't understand why a publisher or developer would want to bring all that negative attention to a game. It's such a touchy subject, more so then watching Kratos split an elephant's head in two.

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Beamboom
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:27:26 AM

Bingo, Underdog. That's exactly the absurdity of it all.

Had this been a low budget title developed by a backyard developer in an ex-soviet republic, then sure, go ahead and be very very afraid.

But what we have here is a reboot of one of the major franchises of this whole darn industry. This will be as well within any moral values as a major Hollywood production, this will be as safe as any James Bond movie and as innocent as slavery in Star Wars.

... Although, Leia *did* look good in'em chains. ;)


Last edited by Beamboom on 6/14/2012 11:38:25 AM

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___________
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:34:00 AM
Reply

forgot to mention too the scene in mention actually shows lara kneeing the guy and escaping so, as my understanding of this is people were assuming there was a rape scene they did not show.
right?
thats just stupid though, it actually shows lara getting away so how could you think there was a scene they cut?
im sorry but if by watching that you thought there would be a rape scene you either A need to look up the word rape in th dictionary, or B need to get a brain and a new pair of eyes!

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:42:36 AM

Perhaps you should consider that some did not see the E3 video, and that even it they had, there could be material not included in that video. The articles make it quite clear and the word 'rape' is used by Rosenberg. I'm not sure why anyone feels the need to dismiss the, in my opinion, reasonable objections other had.

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___________
Friday, June 15, 2012 @ 10:04:13 AM

if they have not seen it than why are they commenting on it?
cant review a game you have not played now can you?
the game director uses that label because that is what every one is calling it, not because he thinks it is so.
christ, i thought that much was obvious!

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:50:54 AM
Reply

You know what's funny, well not funny really, but really rather odd? I have spent more time defending my objection to the use of rape in entertainment, than I ever spent writing my posts objecting to the reported inclusion of possible attempted rape of Lara in Tomb Raider.

I find that odd, and extremely disappointing.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:55:29 AM

Not a Tomb Raider fan?

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:01:03 AM

I strongly disagree with your position on this. I'm not saying that to be a jerk or be funny, I've seen some amazing movies that included scenes of rape. Rape happens...people get raped...just like people get murdered.

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:14:46 AM

Jimmy,

I like Tomb Raider, whether I like this new game remains to be seen.

LV,

You disagree with me, that's fine. You did not attack me, or require that I defend my objections. I understand that reality is reality and that depictions of events in movies, TV and literature often reflect reality. That understanding though does not in any way increase my level of comfort or acceptance.

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slugga_status
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:15:27 AM

It's not the same LV. So just because it happens means it's right? So by this logic, child molestation in a game would be ok with you? If there was a game based on Joseph Kony you'd be ok with that?

I'm glad this particular situation was clarified. Yet just b/c it happens doesn't mean it should be included in video games. I mean goodness even CoD MW2 warned you about the airport scene and at least you had the option to skip it..and that was people in a airport getting shot for nothing..

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:25:38 AM

Molestation has been done hundreds of times in movies and literature. I would not object to its inclusion in a videogame but I certainly wouldn't buy it (rental).

You see it's fine to object to something, don't buy the product or use it. But to take the stance that said product should be banned is something I strongly disagree with.

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slugga_status
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:37:41 AM

Movies and literature are different mediums and aren't the same. I agree that a game shouldn't be "banned" for the content it holds. That's just ridiculous. For me it was more so the moral possibility of it happening.

Just don't think we need it..kinda of similar to the families of veterans who died in Fallujah..they didn't want that game made due to the realism of it and the fact there family members died.

Just shows how blurred the lines are and why I made my statement yesterday about people being desensitized

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:44:16 AM

My father was in Vietnam...there have been plenty of games based on that war and the only reason there was a problem with Fallujah was due to the timing of the game. Give it 10 years from now and hopefully we will see a Fallujah game.

Of course people are desensitized, and they will continue to be desensitized. I'm still baffled that you accept people murdering others but draw the line at sexual assault.

I think what you're failing to realize is it's up to you to decide what content you consider okay in any form of media. The problem is you're not just deciding for yourself but coming across like you want to decide for me and everyone else.

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slugga_status
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:19:33 PM

LV that wasn't the problem with Fallujah. The problems were well reported here as well with every other media outlet. We're never going to get that game..it's been finished since 2009 and nobody wants to touch it.

Again murder and death have occurred in video games forever..from fictional characters to more realistic human fictional people.

So yes I draw the line at sexual assault. Like I said, I guarantee child molestation, which is a form of sexual assualt, would not fly in the gaming community. So why should rape? Not one time did I say nor come across as if I'm trying to decide for anybody else. I'm just adding my thoughts..and I'm glad it isn't anything that I initially thought to be in a Tomb Raider game.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree..Just speaking as a father, husband, and brother..

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:04:55 PM

Fair enough, I can certainly accept that. I'm just a son so maybe I'm able to find it easier to handle extreme situations in media.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 10:55:27 AM
Reply

I'm thinking we need to end this whole debate with a PSXE poll question.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:23:15 PM
Reply

Zeus turned into a friggin swan and raped Leda in an epic painting. I think we can handle a few slack-jawed dudes bent on Lara whose arses she kicks.

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Robochic
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:28:50 PM
Reply

I think my issue is that people are complaining about this game and the word "Rape" but there are other games and movies in this industry where you play a male character and attempt to rape woman, so i'm not understanding the problem with the reversal of the role?
Don't get me wrong i don't take the word Rape lightly as i'm a woman and think that people who do it should be shot or worse but this is a game and we have seen and heard far worse in this industry (GTA Bully all come to mind)

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:47:56 PM

Good point, Bully was actually about standing up to bullies so the media got it dead wrong.

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jimmyhandsome
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 12:52:24 PM
Reply

In ancient Rome, convicted rapists would have their testicles crushed between two stones. Ouch.

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Underdog15
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 1:22:29 PM

effective.

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Highlander
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 2:59:06 PM

Unless they were employed by the state to 'perform' in the Colosseum.

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Clamedeus
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:36:48 PM

>.< Ow, Just thinking about that is making me hurt..

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:48:58 PM

No I'm pretty sure this one was meant to be a TR reboot from the get-go, unlike Castlevania Lords of Shadow which started off as something else.

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Douchebaguette
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 3:52:13 PM
Reply

I think. What I think is. They shouldn't of used popular name to get more sales. It should of been a fresh IP and it would of been respected for its own originality. Tomb Raider games are adventure games. This new entry is a survival game, a more realistically gruesome one at that.

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GuyverLT
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 4:36:07 PM
Reply

I was very surprise at ppl's reaction it was alittle unsettling for me.

Also ben what with "heroin-addict protagonist" like hasn't looked that way since the very 1st trailer especially now. Now he looks like a average regular day douche-bag lol just saying.

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xenris
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 5:09:51 PM
Reply

My friend girl gamers all loved the trailer. I think there is nothing wrong with this. While rape is a terrible thing, why is it so much worse than the murder of soldiers, or innocent people in games, but its not alright to fight off a rape?

We are so comfortable with murder, which in my opinions is one of the most terrible acts a person can do, yet Highlander you are afraid of us getting comfortable with defending ourselves from rape? Why do you choose for rape to be so touchy for you, but all the people who's heads we blow off in shooters and action games don't matter?

I teach martial arts and self defense and have been around people who have gone through this stuff, and they have gotten incredibly strong wills from dealing with it. I think rape is a horrible thing, in real life it makes my blood boil just like someone taking an others life.

However when something is in a game, it doesn't effect me to the point of being offended. In fact it's really hard to offend me in real life, it would be like offended Louis C.K. or someone like that lol.

My point is, we do all sorts of horrible things in video games, and for some reason this is where some of you think the line should be drawn? Why should it be drawn here, and not in blowing a soldiers legs off with a shotgun? Remember that soldier in theory has a family right?

I just find people get offended too easily I guess. I also think if it is placed throughout the game at certain points it would help add to the atmosphere of the game, which is probably the devs intended goal. It would be tasteless if the game was called Rape Raider and it was a Multiplayer only game where one team tried to rape the other in extremely graphic and creative ways.

But as it stands we don't know how its going to be presented in the game and most likely it wont be that big of a deal, and certainly wont be a graphic scene should you fail, most likely the event will just keep looping until you get the QTE or whatever it is right.

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DarthNemesis
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 8:59:07 PM
Reply

I never thought of rape,but I dont see the problem if that was the case since games cover sex,drugs and violence and even kids get killed.
I also have never finished a tomb raider game,but I also never cared for the series after the first game.Anyway its just a game and people are being too attached.

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FxTales
Thursday, June 14, 2012 @ 11:21:00 PM
Reply

I saw it alluded to in the trailer and no I didn't think they would touch on rape. I hope no game does to be honest. As a female I find scenes like that hard to stomach.

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ShiorixZetsu
Friday, June 15, 2012 @ 4:21:36 AM
Reply

Well Beamboom it's nice to know I'm not the only female that feels that way. Personally I'm just tired of seeing all these articles about this small scene that we have seen lara in.

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StangMan80
Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 2:17:46 AM
Reply

I love the games, but if they step over the line, which is a thicker line for me than most, they can take back every bit of interest I had towards the game.

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StangMan80
Saturday, June 16, 2012 @ 2:19:12 AM
Reply

I think any man with a heart would find it "hard to stomach". @ Mell

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