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DoA5 Dev: Our Female Characters Are "Very Misinterpreted"

Many call it sexist. A great many more may not use such a strong term, but still have a problem with the way Tecmo portrays their buxom female characters in Dead or Alive.

But you know what? It isn't gonna change. MCV spoke to Team Ninja boss Yosuke Hayashi about their upcoming Dead or Alive 5, who said the way they create the chicks is very...well, Japanese. That's how their culture is and if other countries have a problem with that, too bad. Really, it's a matter of misinterpretation, Hayashi says.

"With the representation of female characters in the Dead or Alive franchise, we’ve always wanted to make the girls look as attractive as possible, and that’s something that’s not going to change for us at all.

We are a Japanese developer, and we’re making the female characters with our common sense and our creative sense. When you take that to countries outside of Japan, it tends to be very misinterpreted in some cases, people considering it sexist or derogatory etc.

For us, within our culture, we’re showing women like that, and we’re trying to make them look attractive. We can’t help if other cultures in other countries around the globe think that it’s a bad representation. Within our nationality and within our national borders, we obviously have morals that we create our female characters from, but within our Japanese sensibilities, we’ve made those characters the way they are and we’re not going to stop doing that."

I'll probably take a ton of flak for saying this, but I don't see the problem. I also wouldn't have a problem with Tecmo making all the male characters fight in swimsuits, either. I find it interesting from a cultural and societal perspective that the Japanese seem to really like big-breasted women but I'm not about to open that can of worms.

Related Game(s): Dead or Alive 5

Tags: dead or alive 5, doa5, dead or alive 5 girls, doa5 girls, tecmo

8/22/2012 8:42:28 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (48 posts)

Temjin001
Wednesday, August 22, 2012 @ 10:11:32 PM
Reply

Why does it seem like Team Ninja are crazy these days. I swear I read some months ago they were trying to bury the overly sexy appeal of DOA women. But now it's all about boobies and booby physics in full force. Hayasashi also said things in the past for Sigma 2 like moving the franchise away from blood and gore, then, sure enough, NG3 has blood and gore and crunching bones.

Basically, I wish Itagaki never left. DOA5 looks real cool and all, but I miss the consistent leadership and philosophies of Itagaki. They were consistent then. These days I have no idea what to believe or expect. I did play DOA4 the other night, and I will say I think I'll miss the brightness and vivid appeal of the past games.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, August 22, 2012 @ 10:44:41 PM
Reply

Glad to hear it; if folks are going to be the morality police when it comes to bangin bodies and say nothing about willy-nilly decapitations elsewhere then that is their problem and they can avoid the game.

Keep it Japanese. Unapologetically Japanese is how I like it. Puritans can take a hike, I'm gonna enjoy the show.

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Underdog15
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 7:00:53 AM

I'm with you on that one all the way.

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Metal Head
Wednesday, August 22, 2012 @ 11:42:58 PM
Reply

Everybody loves a woman with an amazing body. Morality is a stupid concept created by hypocrats who are the worst people alive. Besides is just a game.

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Highlander
Wednesday, August 22, 2012 @ 11:57:13 PM
Reply

Well, all I can say to Yosuke Hayashi is, you go get 'em. I mean really, it's a bloody game, do we hear outcries about the sexist and derogatory portrayal of big muscle bound men in games? Good lord get real. There's also a sense (in my opinion) that Yosuke Hayashi is saying that they celebrate the fact that these characters are pretty, attractive, beautiful even. Yet by contrast, other cultures sexualize the characters instead of seeing them as simply pretty or beautiful. That sexualization is followed by presumptions about what the developers think, or what gamers thing. Generally it ends up with people calling others perverts or worse. Why is that? Why is it so bad to appreciate and celebrate the pretty, or beautiful artwork of a character?

Is it not sad that where the developer sees beautiful female forms, people in other countries apparently see some form of mild pornography. Why are we so screwed up in our morality that we get this uptight because a character with cleavage bounces a bit? My wife has cleavage, it bounds a bit, and I bloody well enjoy it thank you very much. Does that make me a perv?

This whole faux morality in the west over sexuality just pisses me off completely. We're so hypocritical, and that doesn't even address how we as a culture are so much more comfortable and accepting of violence vs sex.

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Beamboom
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 12:54:55 AM

Noone is against bounces. Heck, there are family friendly TV-series entirely built around it, Baywatch obviously comes to mind.

But there is a huge, HUGE difference between being a cliche of a cheerleader with too large breasts and a facial expression of a sex doll, and an elegant, clever and sophisticated lady with a deep cleavage and firm, sexy bottom.

A world of difference. The first example is, according to all common definitions of "soft porn" exactly that. Same goes with wrestlers in bikini. It's just a flesh show.

Now just for the record: I don't mind soft porn, not one bit. I just call it what it is.

Last edited by Beamboom on 8/23/2012 12:56:51 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 1:24:24 AM

Call it what you will, the trouble is that what is little more than titillating fun to many is an obscenity to others.

This is true in the US and UK right now. things that truly are nothing more than silly titillating fun are seen as perverse or obscene by many very loud people. I've posted here before about the old Page 3 girls in the UK tabloids. Yes, every major daily tabloid newspaper, read by millions and sold to *anyone* had a full color topless picture on page 3 of the paper, every day. It was that way for years. Yet every time I mention that I am certain that one or more people reading have labelled me as some kind of deviant. I mean, come on, it's a topless picture, nothing more, nothing less. I have to remind you (this will make a couple more add that deviant label) that many of the models were 16 years old - at the time and perfectly legal in the UK to be posing topless. Oh, and yes moral majority, I loved those Page 3 girls... ;)

But seriously, the girls in DoA are not topless, they simply bounce, and yet look at the scorn the games get, and the negative connotations.

You're indulging in this yourself when you say "A world of difference. The first example is, according to all common definitions of "soft porn" exactly that. Same goes with wrestlers in bikini. It's just a flesh show." you're applying labels that have negative connotations. Why?

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Beamboom
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 2:22:35 AM

Innocent and fun to you - while I call it cheap. For me it's just too obvious. This is not a case of "valuing their females" or using their "creative senses". What bullshit.

It's like those mandatory topless scenes in b-movies/turkeys. The director adds those scenes to the weak story and poor acting because he just *know* that it will make us like the movie better.
Call it human nature, call it chemistry in our brains, wrap it up in all sorts of intellectual coating: It's just a cheap trick.

And btw, I always thought the topless page three girls had nothing to do in a serious paper either. I got a daughter:
- "Oh look sweetie, here's another girl in the newspaper, just a few years older than you! She's just sitting there showing her breasts to us. Let's call her Mandy. Noone cares what her name is anyways.".
Nothing wrong in that picture...

No, I think there are much better ways of treasuring and worshiping the beauty of the females than having them jump on a sand volley court in string bikinis.
Like that protagonist in the Vita version of Assassins Creed 3. Or the wonderful, charming and utterly sensual ladies found in the Dragon Age adventures.
It's just so, *SO* much more classy, sexy and tasteful, PLUS it's something you can have on your screen without feeling like a teenager browsing a Playboy magazine for the first time.


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/23/2012 3:14:32 AM

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Kall555
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 3:24:27 AM

@Beamboom,

Mate, don't have a heart attack, i worry about you sometimes ;). You seem to be coming to the conclusion that images like this one you're seeing means the product behind it is cheap & nothing more? Do you think this game is cheap simply because of the images you're seeing?

I agree on crap films with piss poor plotting & shite actors with cheap *topless* porn because their is nothing else going for the film, but we're talking about a fighting game here not some cheap budget-made fighting game, but a quality fighting game which has garnered plenty of success over the years with each installment.

Tekken, Soul Calibur, Virtua Fighter etc are all doing this too but noone complains because they don't show it in their screenshots as much as say DOA does.

Read some reviews & i will guarantee you they praise the game, not for the women & the chest physics but for the visuals, interactive arenas, expansive movelists & counter system. People who are not familiar with this franchise *i am assuming you're one of those people* will be brainwashed by the images & will give people the mindset into thinking "this is just cheap titilation & nothing more", this is just how TEAM NINJA advertise their franchise because it's what got people talking about the game all those years back when DOA was introduced in 1998. It's evolved since then, sure it still has the women & the physics but the gameplay itself is evolving too, it's not just a matter of them saying lets make the girls look prettier with the extra console grunt. They're focusing on the game as well, not just the women.

Yes it may come across as cheap, much like those Mass Effect sex scenes right? ;) but it's not because the game IS cheap. That is the impression i am getting from your post; it looks cheap so the game must be cheap? If i have read into that incorrectly then by all means, correct me if i am wrong. I will *bite my lip* & admit to being wrong if i have too, which i must admit, is difficult for me to do most of the time ;)

Oh & you can open your eyes now, because none of the female characters in the screenshots are topless, in fact none of them in the entire franchise have EVER been topless. ;)

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Beamboom
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 3:51:57 AM

This has nothing to do with being topless, or even nudity or sexy characters in itself!

This is no cultural issue either. It's just the poorest excuse of an explanation I've read so far. That's on the same level as when minority teens are screaming "racism" whenever their teacher gives them low scores on a test. Just STFU and learn to write, ffs...

Cause we find the exact same tacky and cheap marketing ploys here in the west. Take every single teen flick at the movies, or just about any product aiming for the teens. Anything from mobile backgrounds to stupid apps; Tits'n'ass all the way.
But I'm too old for those brainless flicks, or those mobile apps. And so should most users on this site be too. Anyone younger than 18 is excused.

I hear people say there is a decent fighter game to be found in here somewhere. I'm cool with that. But when the developers focus on how they spent time in the office touching each other to get the bouncing just right... Well, if that is not tacky then what is.

This is not anywhere *near* the sex scenes in Mass Effect. To even use that as examples of the same is just to completely miss the point here.
Had Bioware spent most of their time describing how many percent of Morrigans breasts are uncovered in her DA outfit, or how they captured the moves of a real lap-dancer to get Kellys dancing right, maybe with some personal shows just to top it off (*giggle giggle, wink wink, nod nod*), well then we are talking. But they didn't. They don't have to.
And the relationships described in those games, with the sensuality that follows, are on an *entirely* different level than adding bounciness to martial arts fighters and giggle about it like a group of schoolboys.

Last edited by Beamboom on 8/23/2012 4:15:07 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:01:33 AM

Beamboom, I think your reaction is entirely disproportionate here. I also think you're taking this entirely too seriously, you are reacting just like one of the people I described. I guess that the stereotype of Scandinavians being liberated when it comes to matters sexual is simply a myth then.

PS, now I'm buying two copies (since you won't want one), that way I can get stereo bounciness.

Last edited by Highlander on 8/23/2012 4:02:25 AM

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Kall555
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:18:56 AM

"But when the developers themselves focus on how they spent time in the office touching eachother to get the bouncing just right"

This franchise has always made it clear that they want attractive women in their games, it's how they operate, but that doesn't mean that's the only aspect they focus on either. It's just what made the franchise famous from the get-go & they're simply evolving it with the next-gen power they have available to them. If you have a problem with this type of imagery & can't see past abit of pixel fanservice to co-exist with a solid fighting engine, well that is your problem & you should get over it. Because it isn't healthy to be put off quality products based off a few pictures you find cheap & distasteful.

"This is not anywhere *near* the sex scenes in Mass Effect. To even use that as examples of the same is just to completely miss the point here"

Clearly emoticons in posts these days are absolutely useless.

I am not missing any point at all, i simply was using the Mass Effect sex scenes just as a light-hearted stab at you sarcastically because i know you're a fan of the franchise. The stab clearly worked i see. Would putting "sarcastic" in brackets in bold font help next time?

I made a counter argument towards you because i thought you were dismissing this title as cheap & nothing more due to the images that you were seeing. Nothing more nothing less, the sooner you grasp that the better. If i was wrong in that assumption then i will admit it, you just need to tell me so. When you've finished your butthurt wall of text & submitted your "real" post after 10 or so frustrated keyboard miss-hits & multiple edits maybe you will feel better. But really, it was only a simple observation of your comment from my view.

@Highlander,

I'm buying three copies now.


Last edited by Kall555 on 8/23/2012 4:34:46 AM

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Beamboom
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:36:34 AM

Yes, I am trying to be serious here. Everything I write here shows I want to seriously explain why they are met with this reaction.

I noticed the smiley Kevin, but still I wanted to use that example cause there are many who argue like that.

Like highlander now, who try to make this into me having a problem with all matters sexual just because I find this to be tacky, and just joke it away.

I just seriously try to explain why many find this to be tacky. And it's tempting to interpret your need to joke this away as a sign that you might actually deep inside admit that I do got a point or two here.

Last edited by Beamboom on 8/23/2012 4:43:00 AM

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Kall555
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:50:06 AM

Beamboom, If you find this cheap & tacky, that's fine. I don't care about that, it's your opinion & you're more then entitled to it just like i'm entitled to my opinion. I'm not bothered by that, i was asking if you thought the cheap screenshots makes the game as a whole, a cheap product. As a fan of this franchise, i was curious to ask. That is all there is to it.

The Mass Effect example is as i said, a joke stab meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner but the timing of it was probably abit poor.

I admit you do have a point about it coming across as cheap but my retaliation to that is one shouldn't assume that the product as whole is cheap & tacky judged by a few screenshots. That is the initial impression i got from your post. There is no extra pudding here.

& finally, i will say this again, i don't have a problem with your opinions be it with or against my own.

Last edited by Kall555 on 8/23/2012 4:54:08 AM

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Beamboom
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 5:28:00 AM

... And with all that said, I *will* highly likely pick this one up from the bargain bin. And when I do so, it will be all about the hooters. ;)

*group hug*


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/23/2012 5:29:02 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 10:25:57 AM

Uh, just one thing. Beamboom, how exactly is Baywatch NOT "cheap?" In the one post, you call it harmless "family fun" (which I don't really get at all) and then in the next, you say you don't like innocent and fun masquerading as cheap.

...the latter is the perfect definition of Baywatch.

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 11:08:54 AM

Beamboom, I think you are deliberately playing devil's advocate and using terms with negative connotations here. I don't understand why you're doing so, you have done this before and to be honest it comes across as you simply posting to get a reaction. That is the definition of trolling. I'm not accusing you of trolling, I am simply pointing out how your conduct in this thread and similar situations in the past can come across.

For you to dismiss the words of Yosuke Hayashi regarding there being cultural reasons and differences in the way that you do just comes across as elitist and superior. I'm sorry, it really does. I'm not going to address any of your other comments because I know that we are not going to connect at all, our world views are so different that any discussion would become an argument, and I don't like arguing with you.

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Beamboom
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 2:13:10 PM

Highlander,
you should stop thinking that whenever someone disagree with you, they are out to troll you or are after you and stuff. You've accused me of this before. They are not. They simply disagree.
I have never on this site ever expressed anything but my opinions, and I never will unless clearly stated.

@Ben,
Yeah I agree. The example sucked. My comparisons and examples always suck. I hereby ask everyone to please look past them. :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/23/2012 2:25:58 PM

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:31:36 PM

Boomy,

you said "I just seriously try to explain why many find this to be tacky. And it's tempting to interpret your need to joke this away as a sign that you might actually deep inside admit that I do got a point or two here."

you're playing devils advocate. You do it a lot. sometimes you say so, sometimes you don't. Please note that I specifically did not call you a troll. However playing devils advocate in a topic to get a reaction - which you *have* done does come very close the the standard definition of trolling. of course you can troll friends to see how they respond for the heck of it, or you can troll people intending to get a reaction and incite flames. Both are trolling by definition, but one is teasing friends and the other is trolling for trouble. I stopped discussing with you because I know that we differ so completely in view, and any further discussion would become an argument. In my view you are playing devil's advocate here, so I won't feed any pointless and needless argument.

You can say that actually you are arguing your own point, but are you? You also posted this;

"... And with all that said, I *will* highly likely pick this one up from the bargain bin. And when I do so, it will be all about the hooters. "

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Beamboom
Friday, August 24, 2012 @ 12:39:30 AM

But that's no contradiction! I don't mind soft core porn (or hardcore for that matter) at all. I even specifically stated that in my very first reply in this thread.

I don't mind being entertained by tacky stuff and cheap content now and then. I can even sporadically dig a really, really bad turkey of a movie. And when I find this game in the bargain bin I don't completely rule out that I might buy it, just like I might buy a Playboy DVD or watch some babe collection on the internet (although, my comment about buying it were obviously primarily meant to round off the discussion in a friendly manner and a smile).

But that's not to say that I don't mean what I have said here. I think this game is being promoted in a way that is so tacky and just downright *stupid* that if I were a serious fighting games fan I would be embarrassed.
And now that these promotional attempts apparently has backfired at them I find their response to be just as sorry as their marketing attempts.

And while I think it is unfortunate that you are this easily offended (I really do), you have to realize that it's *you* that are provoked by these opinions. *You* are feeling trolled by them. It's *your* problem, me as the sender is not to blame.
What I express here is really not that extreme nor offensive by nature.

Last edited by Beamboom on 8/24/2012 9:23:19 AM

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Kall555
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 1:59:32 AM
Reply

It's a fighting game, take a chill pill. Any fan of DOA will realize that TECMO have been doing this with the series since it's birth. Dead or Alive has been like this for years, since 1998 so why is everyone just now up in arms about this all of a sudden? So TEAM NINJA aren't changing the stance? Good, so they shouldn't. If people can't look past the women & enjoy the game for what it really is *fighting* then that is their problem. Again, if you only play this game using one hand, that is your problem. It's not like they have made a generic, bare-bones fighting game & slapped on a cast of women & called it a day. This is actually a quality fighting series with plenty going for it which has started it's own innovations when it first released.

I mean, Tekken & Virtua Fighter are doing this now too but people will hopefully look past that & enjoy the fighting mechanics instead while at the same time appreciate the fan-service given to those who want it.

& seriously, people really need to stop accusing this franchise for a "tits only" brawler. That is just nonsense, plain & simple. The game is a solid fighting game in its own right that pretty much introduced the interactive scenery to the genre as well as incorporating the tag feature the most successfully when DOA2 first released on SEGA Dreamcast way back in late 1999 to early 2000. The counter system is also brilliant with it's paper-scissors-rock type system which often eliminates losing to cheap spammer players.

If all people see in this series is women with wobbly breasts & nothing else, then lol :)





Last edited by Kall555 on 8/23/2012 2:07:09 AM

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Looking Glass
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 6:15:44 AM
Reply

Why do I get the feeling that Hayashi is being presumptuous and evasive?

I mean it's true that portraying female characters in this manner is not uncommon in Japanese popular culture (or American popular culture for that matter) but I've also encountered a number of Japanese works that actually do not portray female characters in this way. In other words Japanese culture is also more complex than that and they have more options than they seem willing to admit and they themselves choose to go this route.

In other words they don't seem willing to take any personal responsibility for their own creative decisions and instead just blame it on (or perhaps attribute it to) their culture. That's not particularly fortunate. At the end of the day the people at Team Ninja don't really seem all that willing to take responsibility for their own actions.

Last edited by Looking Glass on 8/23/2012 6:17:30 AM

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Beamboom
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 8:32:45 AM

I agree in all you say here.

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 11:46:47 AM

I think you're missing the point you yourself just made;

"I mean it's true that portraying female characters in this manner is not uncommon in Japanese popular culture but I've also encountered a number of Japanese works that actually do not portray female characters in this way. "

Obviously this is going to be the case. But, are you suggesting that DoA5 is entirely representative of Japanese culture? You recognize that "portraying female characters in this manner is not uncommon in Japanese popular culture" which is kind of the point that Kayashi is making. He's not saying "All japanese culture is big breasted blond bikini clad fighters..." is he? He's talking about an artistic choice in a video game that is sold to...people that play video games. In the pop culture context of those that play games and Japanese pop culture in general, is it not fair to say that his comments are entirely accurate? He's not saying that there are no other portrayals of females in Japanese culture, but he's explaining choices made in the character designs of the DoA female fighters.

Look at the collected body (no pun intended) of work in the world of japanese pop culture, anime, Manga, video games and figures/figma/and even Volks character figures and dolls - it's been that way for decades if not longer. I guarantee you that you will find an abundance of female characters with ample cleavage. So, how is Hayashi wrong in what he says?

A key point in Hayashi's comments is this; "We can’t help if other cultures in other countries around the globe think that it’s a bad representation. "

He first says that they want to make the female characters as attractive as possible. In terms of Japanese culture and sensibility, and certainly the target audience, that results in very pretty female characters with curves and bounce. Those assets are shown off in outfits that are designed to accentuate the character's appearance. If you were sitting down to design female characters for a game and they were supposed to be as attractive and appealing as you could make them - remembering this is a visual medium - how would you design them? Athletic bodies with no hips, thin legs and a tiny bust? Of course not.

So the character designs are what they are - pretty, beautiful and stereotypically curvy and bouncy. that's the context, Hayashi, then says "We can’t help if other cultures in other countries around the globe think that it’s a bad representation." The point being that he knows that the character designs will be decried by many in other cultures (especially the west) who are hypocritically pious regarding anything that can be perceived sexually. I think he is saying that in Japan the characters are seen in a more lighthearted manner and not seen as some threat to women, or sexist comment on women, or any of the other motives that people in the west tend to apply to anything even vaguely titillating these days.

What if the characters were dressed in pencil skirts, low heels and white blouses? Would that deflect any criticism, or would that be criticized too? You know the answer as well as I do, that would be the 'sexy secretary' look. They could bury the characters in yards and yards of virtual silk and lace and be accused of lolifying the characters which leads to an entirely different mine field of cultural difference and completely different perceptions.

It really is about perceptions. In the US and many parts of Europe there is a tendency now to automatically perceive anything titillating or flirty in a heavily sexual manner. Negative sexual connotations are almost applied by default in most situations, especially when the source media comes from another country. It's not limited to Japan.

But let's just cut to the chase (again no pun intended) here. There is *nothing* going on in this game that would not have happened on an episode of Benny Hill's comedy show. Girls dressed as nurses with micro-skirts or running around in lingerie were frequently featured on his TV show. When is it that our cultural perceptions altered so drastically that what was once a prime time show in the UK, and a show that can be seen on PBS in the US could at the same time be subject to such negativity? If you attempted to make that same TV show today, I don't honestly think you could, it would be slammed from all sides because of the apparent sexism and exploitation. The Benny Hill show apparently gets something of a free pass based on nostalgia.

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Looking Glass
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 1:12:04 PM

@ TheHighlander

With all due respect Highlander just what are you trying to pull here? You're talking about stuff that I didn't even mention in my post. Is it possible that you may have responded to the wrong post by mistake or something? (sarcasm obviously)

If you're going to respond to one of my posts I would prefer that you please stay on topic.

And I am suggesting that DoA5 is entirely representative of Japanese culture? Where did that come from? I hope you're being sarcastic with that question because it should be obvious from my post that the answer would be a resounding no.

First off Hayashi fails to mention the complexity and diversity present in Japanese culture and that's part of the problem. They're Japanese developers and they want to be themselves and do something Japanese? That's perfectly fine. But as I believe I indicated in my post there is more than one way to do that. What Hayashi fails to do is provide an adequate explanation for why he and the rest of Team Ninja decided to go this specific route in Japanese culture.

They say they're trying to make the female characters attractive but that's not good enough either because there's more than one way to do that too. They also fail to provide an adequate explanation for why they chose this specific root for that too.

My point is that the people at Team Ninja don't seem particularly inclined to take any personal responsibility for their own creative decisions. Instead they seem content to hide behind their nationality and culture.

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:46:08 PM

It was a rhetorical question, as you say, obviously the answer is that you are more familiar with Japanese culture than that.

But I still think that you are not quite getting what Hayashi is saying. He'd very much taking responsibility for the appearance of the characters.

The first part of his quoted comments say exactly that. "we’ve always wanted to make the girls look as attractive as possible, and that’s something that’s not going to change for us at all." He says "we" and "us", how is that not taking responsibility for their design choice?

He goes on to elaborate some of the rationale behind their design choices and how those choices are seen in other nations through their own cultural lens. He then goes on to say more or less what he said in the first paragraph again but cast against the contrasts in culture and how cultures view women that he implied in the second paragraph.

His central point is regarding the different cultural norms and how that alters people's perceptions of his team's work. He starts out by taking pride in that work and basically saying "we like it, sand we're not gonna change" and goes on to discuss how the different perceptions alter how people in other countries receive that work.

You seem to want Hayashi to address wider cultural values in Japan. he's making a video game, not theater. He works in pop culture, that's why I can't understand why you seem to be suggesting that he should somehow give the entire cultural context of women in Japan instead of the context of the particular segment of pop culture that Video games serve. That was the point I made in my longer post. Why should or would Hayashi address the broad culture of portrayals of women in other aspects of Japanese culture when he works in video games, making video games for fans of video games.

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Looking Glass
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 6:57:45 PM

@ TheHighlander

You don't seem to get what I'm saying. Alright, I'll try again to explain.

First let me clarify that in my original post when I said "take responsibility for their own actions" I was referring to their creative decisions.

With regard to your last paragraph. First while it would be nice for Hayashi to address wider cultural values in Japan that isn't really my primary concern, at least not this time. And when I said "I've also encountered a number of Japanese works that actually do not portray female characters in this way" I wasn't just referring to other media. I was also referring to Japanese video games. In addition to other Japanese media that don't portray women in this way I've also encountered a number of Japanese video games that don't portray women in this way. So being a video game maker doesn't get them off the hook.

And how is that not taking responsibility for their design choice you ask? They're not taking responsibility for their design choice because they're not adequately explaining their design choice. Or to put it another way how can they take responsibility for something (in this case their design choice) without making it adequately clear what they're taking responsibility for? They want to make their female characters attractive? There is more than one way to do that. So why did they choose to do it this particular way? They don't say.

The closest they come to explaining themselves is to make it about their nationality and culture: "We are a Japanese developer" "within our culture" "Within our nationality and within our national borders" "within our Japanese sensibilities". But that's not good enough because Japanese culture is more complex and diverse than that. So why do they choose to do things in this particular way within Japanese culture? They don't say.

They have options. And because they have options that opens the question of why they chose to do things this particular way out of the options they had with the context of Japanese culture. It all seems to basically boil down to "we do what we do because we're Japanese". But for reasons which I believe I've already established that is just not good enough.



Last edited by Looking Glass on 8/23/2012 6:59:06 PM

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ethird1
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 8:48:38 AM
Reply

If you have to ask why men of any nation would want big boobs in a game ... YOU ARE NOT A MAN!

I blame the effiminate society of america for this. Sweet god the liberal press and 'other factors' are killing american machoism!

Big boobs make me happy. No matter how sad I am, if a babe comes up to me with her big boobies, Ethird is a very happy wappy pappy!!

I get sick and tired of wussies who cry about large boobs in game, saying, "This takes the women's lib movement back 100 years."

No. It does not. It is part of the animal in all of us.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOBIIIIIIIIEEEEEEESSS!

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 10:27:22 AM

...I don't need to be accused of not being a man. Thanks.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 11:39:25 AM

Actually it's the conservatives that have the biggest problem with this lovely stuff.

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Neo_Aeon666
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 5:18:27 PM

lol I think it's just an all-out call to booby love. :D

I second the love for boobies! lol

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anjpikapp3
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 11:05:15 AM
Reply

I completely understand what Hayashi is "trying" to say. Since this is an Asian game, it will relate more to the asian population. I too am asian and LOVE big boobies! The main problem I see here is that American's are steping in (like the always do) and down playing the whole sexual theme....instead of this being fun and sexual, its now protrayed as stupid and sexist. Sorry America, not everything revolves around ignorance.

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Neo_Aeon666
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 5:20:38 PM

Well at least Asians accept their love for boobies :D that is not something that can be said of some of the other countries.

Some people just like to live in denial.... lol

Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 8/23/2012 5:20:59 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 11:40:21 AM
Reply

Boobs are fun and fighting is fun. I don't see the problem.

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ethird1
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 11:46:39 AM
Reply

I want a fighting game where Chinese kung fu chicks start a war across the globe with other chicks of other countries, ONLY fighting with their boob techniques!

Guaranteed million seller!

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 11:50:02 AM

No, we should have a game where flat chested athletic female fighters in sports bras and ankle length full sleeve dresses and flats look on disapprovingly as the male fighters (all with huge bulging muscles, six packs and wearing little more than a lycra posing pouch and body oil kick the living crap out of each other. Judging by the typical reactions to female characters these days, a game such as I describe should tear up the charts and gain critical acclaim.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 12:34:24 PM

They are called banana hammocks.

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Underdog15
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 1:58:48 PM

I once found an elephant with a long nose in the front thong in my parent's closet.

I decided not to take things like that seriously ever again. It was a gag gift, right? A GAG GIFT!!!!!!!!! .............. RIGHT?!!?!?! GUYS?!?!!?

*SOB*

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:18:42 PM

Kuro, the basis of calling this stuff sexist or sleazy or pornographic usually boils down to the fact that the women we are seeing set an unrealistic standard that is insulting to regular women. Such is the case with airbrushed models, implanted movie stars, skinny models, and professionally made-over pop idols.

The flip side of this is that you or me will never ever look like the flawless muscular men of gaming because it too is utterly unrealistic. Obviously not all women are into muscular men but the proportionality is about that same as men who are into large breasts.

Are the men as scantily clad as the ladies, or the guys in the average Abercrombie ad? No but as Ben said I don't think many gamers would make a stink about it if they were. I mean look at professional wrestling, they wear a speedo and nobody cares.

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Comic Shaman
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 12:20:42 PM
Reply

Not that I'm big on the DOA series, but I don't see it doing a whole lot of harm. At least it doesn't make any pretense about being what it is.

When it comes to exaggerated anatomy, I personally find the 'roid-head look of the characters in Gears of War a whole lot more off-putting than the fighters in DOA.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 12:34:07 PM

Gears and just about every other franchise. I mean look what happened to Chris Redfield RE5.

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Comic Shaman
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 2:17:32 PM

It's sad about Chris. Sure he can punch a boulder, but the dude can't bend his arm enough to brush his teeth anymore with those biceps in the way. He should have a special breath weapon attack.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:21:56 PM

You should know it's a very American idea that showing nearly nude women is somehow disrespectful. That's just the way it is. That's the cultural difference.

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Highlander
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:48:54 PM

Thank you worlds, that is the core point I am making in my posts. I had thought that giving examples and illustrations would help get it across to people, but I guess not.

That idea in America that showing a nearly nude woman is somehow disrespectful is something that has become more ingrained even in the last 10 years. Which was kind of the point I was making in my reply to Looking glass. Oh well, no point in continuing this discussion the puritans are out in force.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 5:20:46 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed my studies in morality and the philosophy thereof. For the most part people simply can't separate their gut reaction from objective fact and that is how we get folks like we have here that think culture is just an excuse. They truly don't understand or can't accept that a whole set of people see something in a completely different way than them.

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Highlander
Friday, August 24, 2012 @ 1:43:43 AM

1) puritans was a general reference to moral minority types. 2) DoA is a game I've played very seldom. 3) I simply hate, and I mean hat, the pious self righteous BS that people spout as if in fear of some kind of feminist retaliation against their person. Every time something even vaguely similar to this subject comes along, we get the same discussion and the same depressingly repressed results.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, August 23, 2012 @ 4:24:02 PM
Reply

(.) (.)

There. Queue the outrage.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 8/23/2012 4:24:08 PM

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Neo_Aeon666
Friday, August 24, 2012 @ 4:56:13 PM

LOL well for an outrage you need to make em DoA Style :D

( . )( . ) lolll

Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 8/24/2012 4:57:27 PM

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