Sen. Lamar Alexander: Guns Aren't The Problem, Video Games Are

Cesar_ser_4
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:04:13 PM
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I say we get up in arms and straight up blame the ESRB if they somehow manage to do something to videogames. The ESRB won't have any other option but to blame the real culprits which are the parents of those mentally unstable little brats. We shall turn their own against them. If that makes sense of course.

The only place i see this going is the vast majority of gamers shooting themselves on the foot and the rest of us get punished for it.

Last edited by Cesar_ser_4 on 1/30/2013 11:04:36 PM

1 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:37:16 PM

"Shooting themselves in the foot..."

HA! lol

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:04:18 PM
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The arrogance of all these half-a$$ed baby-wipe politicians who are jumping on a bandwagon just to say "Here I am me, look at me" are overwhelming disgusting & make me want to puke.

Gone are the days when politicians actually cared enough about what they did & said while in office, instead of going on self-righteous nanny-status tangents & just more & more of their own utterly useless & meaningless %*^&% personal agenda's.

5 up, 1 down

Kratoskillall09
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:08:27 PM
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That right there is worthy of 2 or 3 facepalms. That is absolutely ridiculous to say anything like that. Especially without any evidence to backup his claims. One thing you didn't mention is I do believe this guy is a member of the NRA. So right off the bat he's being extremely biased. I would actually like to find a politician whose got something to say on the subject without having any bias or other political agendas. That's just wishful thinking though. Any politician will say anything they can just to get few more votes next election. Will the video game bashing end anytime soon? It's getting kinda tiresome and redundant? Or since the Sandy Hook tragedy, is this the fad? Just wait till GTA V is about to release every parent and politician will be up in arms. All I can say to the parents is if you don't want your kid playing the game then I don't know, don't get it for them, and don't let them. If they happen to get a hold of the game punish them like my parents would've done. Don't go on national TV or the internet complaining about it. Ya know, be parents for once. Sorry. End of rant.

1 up, 0 down

Vitron
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:05:14 AM

When you mean 2 or 3 face palms, you meant in thousands right? :)

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:14:14 PM
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I watched a little of the testimony today and there was more junk, Chuck Grassley I think, was saying how he just doesn't believe the information game developers brought to the conference. Just dismissed it because of who it came from, nevermind the fact that it was all scientific studies that found no statistically significant link between games and real violence.

This is what happens when you try to fight belief and ideology with science. The psychos always control the conversation.

2 up, 0 down

Excelsior1
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:21:13 PM
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I mentioned this in another related thread but I will post it again. Last year handguns killed 48 people in Japan, 34 in Switzerland. 21 in Sweden, 52 in Canada, and 8 in Great Britian. 10,728 people were killed by handguns here in the United States last year.

I am embarrassed because of where we rank on that list here in the United States. Clearly we have a systemic problem here in the United States.

Great Britian and Canada have the same violent videogame influences we have here in the United States. If it's videogames causing violence then why aren't more people dying from guns in other countries? It's because those countries have a lot less guns on the street.

There is a loophole in federal law that allows handguns to be sold at gunshows with no background checks or paperwork of any kind. Handgun sales from gunshows account for 2 out every 5 legal handgun purchases here in the United States. 11 states have closed this loophole.

We should at least close that loophole and require background checks for all handgun purchases.

I'm not advocating taking guns away from responsible gun owners but closing that loophole seems like a good place to start. I see no reason why responsible and legal gun owners should oppose this.

The NRA is scared that the mood here in the United States has shifted so they throwing everything they can out there to distort the issue. People are getting fed up with all these gun related deaths and mass murders.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/30/2013 11:37:01 PM

6 up, 3 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:40:50 PM

What shift?

http://reason.com/poll/2013/01/30/52-percent-of-americans-sa-sandy-hook-is

You're wrong again as usual.

2 up, 5 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:41:50 PM

It's not like our countries don't have guns. In Canada, any law-abiding citizen can still get a gun. Just not in 5 minutes at your local walmart.

What's limited is the types of weaponry you can own (still very lethal weapons can be bought. You just can't be a one man army) and there are many more hoops to jump through.

So, you're psychologically unstable as declared by your mandatory psychiatrist review? Well, hold on there, psycho. No gun for you!

Lots of weaponry in my extended family. None for me, though.

The difference is in the control, and to some extent, the access to health care.

Also, excelsior, in guns in general, Canada has had more deaths by guns (your numbers are correct about handguns, though). But it's still miniscule. Only 500-some homicides total, guns or not. We're the second worst 1st world country for homicides per capita at 2-point something per 100k. You are right... something strange is going on in the US with their over 10-point something per 100k.

All I know... is that it's definitely not video games.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/30/2013 11:44:51 PM

4 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:49:06 PM

Underdog, if advertising helps sell products why wouldn't violent games have some affect on the mentally deranged?

2 up, 7 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:50:12 PM

We have mentally deranged in other countries too, Jawk. Same commercials, too. And games... and movies... and violent themed music... and we see your news and other international news too... What's your point? I'm not sure what you're fighting for, here.

Crazy psychopath A with no history of illness or criminal activity might see or play a game in Canada, and think, aw hell, shits gonna get shot up for real! WHOOP WHOOP WHOOOOOOOP!!! Then find a slingshot or something...

Crazy psychopath B with no record of illness or criminal activity might do the same in an uncontrolled and easily accessible weapon market and have a very different outcome. Even with a measly little "semi automatic" (as if that fact makes things better...)

Or...

ignore psychos... momentarily lost mind cheated on wife wants to kill her cheating husband in a moment of fury. She grabs an easily accessible rifle... or ... oops... no guns because I can't buy one. Then emotion passes and all is right as rain. Except the impending divorce, of course.

Just.... control the crazy accessibility of it all. That's all. So what if you gotta do some paperwork? Still have your "rights"...

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/30/2013 11:56:26 PM

5 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:54:02 PM

How about you answer the question and quit dodging.

2 up, 7 down

tes37
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:54:42 PM

Excelsior1, have you ever thought that maybe those stats indicate Americans have better aim? :)

6 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:00:42 AM

I did answer it, Jawk. We have mentally deranged. And everyone, deranged or not, are affected by media. And the mentally ill, just like children, should arguably not have access.

However, that doesn't address the problem. My argument pointed out you aren't seeing the problem.

Answer this... Why is the US such an outlier? There are more peaceful 3rd world countries. US is the 10th most violent... even against countries with political unrest.

The answer might not be the fact you have guns. But it definitely isnt going to be in the field of whether or not mentally deranged people are affected by violent commercials.... lol There's no correlation because those commercials are not exclusive to the states who does have the exclusive problem of high violence in the free world.

5 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:02:08 AM

Those stats he quotes are irrevlent anyway given more than 60% of those 10k gun deaths per year happen to be suicides. The rest is mostly gang and drug violence while less than 600 are accidental.

5 up, 7 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:06:55 AM

Not irrelevant. The US is still an outlier with 3.6 per 100k compared to second place's 0.5 per 100k.

Just.... stop.... seriously. How are you not embarrassed yet?

And suicides are not less relevant. Suicides are about equal country to country. (Canada only slightly better than the US. But only marginally)

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/31/2013 12:10:52 AM

5 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:15:03 AM

Embarrassed? Nope, I've been a long time gun owner and know all the anti-gun tricks and arguments people like you use to trash my country, culture and values. Besides its you who is confidently ignoring that we have a massive problem with inner city gangs and drug violence unlike most of those other nations you hold is such high esteem.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/31/2013 12:20:07 AM

3 up, 9 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:20:58 AM

I'm a huge fan of your country, culture, and values.

I just don't see the harm in a little red tape to manage an overly accessible weapon industry. It's just red tape, man. Not a prison. As World passively pointed out... no one is taking or suggesting taking rights away. Just keep an eye on who gets guns.

This may come as a shock to you, but I could go out to buy a gun, join a gun club, and put it up in a locked cabinet at my house. I don't because I know I'm safe. But if I was worried, I could. And I have that right, too.

Literally none of us think you should not be allowed to responsibly own a weapon.

4 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:32:48 AM

Forgive me if I got a different impression given some of your positions since this shooting and in other controversial subjects that have taken place here in regards to the states.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/31/2013 12:33:49 AM

4 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:42:54 AM

My position on your gun laws can hardly represent a distaste for such broad topics as your culture, country, and values. My position was the same prior to the shooting. But I did get extra angry over the fact they were kids. But that's separate anger from gun laws in general. Broke my damn heart, that event did.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/31/2013 12:44:04 AM

5 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:58:24 AM

As it did mine. As it should any sensible human being. Forgive me for being defensive. Since that horrible crime the media and the American left have been bullying law abiding gun owner. They didn't even wait 24 hours before the attacks on gun owners ensued. They even went as far as deceptively editing video of a hearing in CT accusing gun right advocates of heckling a grieving father during his testimony in an attempt to smear people like me as child hating ghouls. Once the full unedited tape was released many such as Slate and Anderson Cooper were forced to retract their slanderous accusations while others like MSNBC and The Huffington Post stubbornly refused to let go of that narrative even in light of the evidence that proved them to be lying hacks.

5 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:19:34 AM

Hey Jawk!! It's been awhile since I have seen you. I said I wasn't advocating taking guns away from responsible gun owners so please don't be so defensive. I don't have a problem with you owning guns and enjoying your hobby. I want be crystal clear. I am not advocating any type of ban on guns, I'm not trying to take your gun away, okay?

I know this is a sensitive topic guys but let's try to be respectful towards each other. If people get chippy then we will all just talk past each other and we won't be able to have an intelligent discussion.. PSXE members are a very mature bunch for the most part. I love hearing the opinions of PSXE memners

Okay back to guns. Here are the facts. In 33 states private gun owners are not restricted from selling guns at gun shows. Buyers who purchase guns from individuals are not required to submit to the federal background checks in place for liscensed dealers in these states.

Here are the states that require background checks for all gun purchases. They are California, Colorado, Conneticut, Illinois, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island.

The following states require background checks for just handguns. They are Hawai, Pennsylvannia, Maryland, and New York, and New Jersey.

Florida requires background checks for hadguns in some jurisdictions.

Anyways, I just don't understand how anyone can say the stats do not matter. No wonder we have such a problem. The stats don't look good so we will just toss them out and call them meaningless? Americans killing each other with guns at a much higher rate than in other countries does not matter?

I respectfully disagree. Those stats tell us we have a problem that other countries just don't have. How can we have an intelligent discussion if we just toss the stats out and say they don't matter? I'm sure the victims families here in United States would say those numbers matter. Those are actual lives being lost. They aren't just a number.

@Underdog

Thanks for the information, It's interesting to here from a Canadian, eh. :) I am very embarrassed that we kill each other at such a high rate with guns here in United States.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/31/2013 1:45:49 AM

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:43:08 AM

Excelsior, I wasn't very diplomatic in my pending post so apologies in advance. I'm just tired of the attacks by many (not you) on people like me for lawfully exercising my rights. Also tired of the misinformation regarding gun shows and their so called loophole. What it really is is a private sale loophole where some states do not enforce or require a background check on private sales. But even those stats being thrown around by thr media and others are inaccurate. at most its about 1.9% of gunshot sales that end up in crime scenes or crimes committed per our own DOJ. Licensed dealers that sell at gun shows must by federal law do a background check on every sale and they're required to keep records of these sales.

And please if you want to have a reasonable discussion, don't try and pull on people's heart strings by invoke victims families. My best friend from high school was shot by gang bangers in the back. The bullet wasn't intended for him. Wrong place t the wrong time. So I am not without understanding how victims families feel.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/31/2013 1:45:26 AM

3 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:12:48 AM

@Jawk

Apologies for pulling on your heartstrings. I wasn't aiming to do that. Sorry to hear about your experience with gun related violence. I just don't like hearing those stats don't matter when those numbers represent actual people dying. Lives lost matter me.

Don't worry about your reply that wasn't very diplomatic. I know this is a sensitive topic. I hope I didn't get blasted too hard. :)

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/31/2013 2:17:39 AM

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:22:14 AM

I only meant that one can't say 10k a year is merely gun violence when a great many of those deaths were self inflicted. When you throw that number out without recognizing that fact it gives the impression all 10k are murder. Not that those deaths don't matter. Of course they do. I want to apologize again in advance for being a jerk in my pending post. Just so very frustrated with many in this debate. Not you, others. Unfair of me to lash out at you.

2 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:35:38 PM
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This is a clear case of, "oh shit, all the other politicians are saying so, I'd better follow suit!"

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:43:02 PM
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The number of you willing to take the rights of law abiding citizens away to protect a hobby are quite sad.

5 up, 4 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:45:18 PM

Who wants to take what rights away?

2 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:45:35 PM

Not as sad as those who make up facts to protect their imagined loss of rights. It's not so black and white as that, Jawk. Proper control doesn't take away rights.

All law-abiding Canadians can own guns too, you know...

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/30/2013 11:47:08 PM

3 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Wednesday, January 30, 2013 @ 11:53:30 PM

Says the guy who quotes Wikipedia for his own facts.

3 up, 7 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:01:48 AM

Ok.... so now it's clear I'm just arguing with a crazy person.

There's nothing wrong with wikipedia so long as wikipedia uses appropriate annotations.

Go back to that site I showed you, and scroll down to the citations. That's how you know it's legit.

whoo-boy...

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/31/2013 12:03:04 AM

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:04:01 AM

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ed5d854399c0c5763cebddf9e3939ed9/tumblr_mgy4v3cvQg1qz4urbo1_500.gif

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 1/31/2013 9:41:24 AM

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:04:22 AM

Who's dodging World's question, by the way.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:13:02 AM

I'm sorry, I thought it was retorical given all the attacks on the 2nd Amendment and Americans by some in this community since Newtown.

@World, you've frequented these posts enough to have witness the plethora of comments blaming guns and calling for their ban.

2 up, 4 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:24:46 AM

I just don't believe media is the appropriate target. It's a very odd sort of patriot that would destroy the first amendment to protect the second.

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:30:51 AM

I don't believe that game makers should be forced to change anything. We live I'm a free society and that comes with risks. It's better parenting that is required. Not more gun laws or restrictions on the 1st Amendment. The entire Bill of Rights is important. Not just parts of it.

4 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:40:19 AM

On the topic of games, I completely agree.

I guess I would have an easier time with all the gun stuff if gun violence there wasn't so astronomically different from the rest of the free world. I just don't see how it could be anything but just... bad or out of date gun laws.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:49:18 AM

As I have said many times, America is unique. We have over 186 metropolitan areas with a population greater than 250k. That's where most of these gun murders happen largely due to drug wars and gangs. Comparing us to places like the UK that only has 45 or Canada that has about 20 with a population greater than 200k is apples and oranges. You guys don't have the same drug and gang problem as we have nor the number metropolitan areas where most of these killings happen.

2 up, 3 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:52:08 AM

Um... Toronto is a major international drug capital, it's one of the main centers for human trafficking, and it has one of the highest rates of users per capita in the world.

It's diversity is comparable to New York City.

Vancouver is even worse for drugs (not as bad on the human trafficking.)

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/31/2013 12:53:02 AM

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:01:37 AM

Okay but that's two places compared to over 180+ in the US. They're not the same.

2 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 7:23:32 AM

meh, no harm in discussion. We don't have to be absolutists.

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:07:23 PM

Isn't calling for a ban an absolutist position? My irriration with this whole debate is the proposals have been done before, they didn't work and they dispaportionalty target law abiding citizens. Not a single solution being proposed on Capltial Hill would have stopped the Newton killer. What Feinstien's bill would do is turn me and millions of other law abiding gun owners into criminals over night when we inevitably refuse to register our arms.

And to those who think gun bans work to stop mass shootings...Nope, the UK banned semi-automatic rifles and handguns in 1996. This guy at the link managed to kill 12 with a double barrel shotgun and a bolt action rifle in 2010.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/10219655

Humans can be despicable and do horrible things to one another. Our founders understood this after having fought a decades long British occupation. They understood that when it comes down to it, much like an animal trying to survive in the wild we and we alone are responsible for our own defense. Cops do a great job but they cant be everywhere at once. It's better to own a firearm and never need it than to get stuck in a situation where you need one and don't have one.

2 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:13:58 AM
Reply

I think I'm done on this topic. Why argue with someone who mocks your sources while using none of their own?

Facts we all know, games are clearly not the cause. As game popularity rises, violence declines. And we all have access to the same games, movies, news, music.... so why is it different? Whatever you believe it to be, I'm getting tired of the blame landing in the laps of the lambs. I'm also getting tired of people thinking a thin little bit of red tape equivocating a prison.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:17:22 AM

No one said they were different. I never solely blamed games. Unlike you who blame pieces of metal and plastic. "The gun made him do it" is just as stupid as saying "the games made him do it" or that large spoons make people fat.

1 up, 3 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:22:40 AM

I never once said that, Jawk. I said there needs to be a system that is responsible for the overly accessible market. Please, point out where I said, "The gun made him do it."

As I've said a number of times now... I can own a gun too, you know. The difference is I have more paper work to do first, and I need a background check and assessment. Then I register it. It can be done in just a couple days. If I'm diligent, I could do it all in one day.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/31/2013 12:25:15 AM

1 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:22:57 AM

Hers your facts right from the Canadiadn Mounties. Granted is older data but this is as updated as they kept it I guess.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/res-rec/deaths_deces-eng.htm

2 up, 2 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:27:06 AM

I have done a back ground check for every fire arm I have purchased and hay includes those done at gun shows. To that gun show loophole lie needs to be put to rest. When I sold one to a friend my state requires the transfer be done through a licensed FFL dealer as a witness and a background check is done again on both of us to ensure the transfer is legal. I have zero issue with such procedure. It's registration I have a problem with as I don't trust my government. Not long ago my government rounded up over 100k of our fellow citizens and put them in interment camps simply because of their race. Can't blame me for not trusting Washington DC to respect my 2nd Amendment Rights or any of my rights for that matter.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/31/2013 12:28:23 AM

3 up, 4 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:32:45 AM

Sounds like you have issues with a whole lot of other problems unrelated to guns.

My buddy is a police officer, and he's grateful before approaching a home to know if they have a gun on the property. Admittedly, our country's registry is a colossal waste of money. (it targets hunters with extra stuff that applies no other type of gun owner. Very strange)

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/31/2013 12:38:38 AM

3 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:25:33 AM
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Speaking of guns....

Let's say for just a moment that there's a break-in with 2 or 3 perps, or even worse, a full-on home invasion(which America is also highly known for too) with a team of suspects.

Now, just 1 guess which of the following do I want to defend against them all....

1. baseball bat
2. kitchen knife
3. 5 to 7 shot handgun
4. semi-automatic rifle with a 30 round clip.

As far as I'm concerned, they come after me, I'm gonna do my very best that nobody leaves alive.

Gun bans will only stop law abiding citizens from defending themselves against any & all comers.

And the Gun control freaks don't just want our rifles, because believe me, that after that's done, they'll smell the blood of conquest & they'll continue to stop at nothing to disarm us of every single gun made, regardless.

And does any one in their right mind, actually think that the psychotics & the criminals will ever turn in their illegal guns...yeah right, just hold your breath & wait for that.

"I'd rather take my chances being judged by a jury of 12, than laying in a casket, carried by 6"

0 up, 3 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:33:28 AM

I suppose you'd need a gun, because people breaking in in the US probably have guns too.

Also, at this point, a gun BAN is a bad bad idea.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 1/31/2013 12:36:36 AM

4 up, 0 down

PSTan
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:31:42 AM
Reply

I agree with Ben that any exposure to violence, whether in media, entertainment, and real life, has significant effects on the developing minds of kids. I completely support ESRB being the law of the land, and as well as *gulp* more regulations on firearms. Our society tends to make scapegoats of things that seem most "alien" to them, i.e. videogames.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:38:03 AM

Regulations are fine if they work and are enforced. I was absolutely shocked to find out today in those hearings that of the last 72,000 illegal attempts to buy a firearm/failed background checks only 62 were prosecuted by our DOJ. Can't blame people for refusing to give into new regulations when the ones on the books aren't even being enforced.

2 up, 2 down

Excelsior1
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:56:14 AM

That's very interesting Jawk. I will look into it. I never said I wanted a ban on guns. I haven't noticed anybody here at PSXE calling for a ban on guns either. It's posible I missed it however. Underdog mentioned they banned all guns in Australia but I don't he's advocating a ban. Anyways, better regulations and enforcement sounds good to me so it looks like we have found some common ground.

I just don't think video games are causing gun related deaths.

Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/31/2013 2:01:49 AM

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:39:17 AM

I know you yourself haven't called for a ban. Others have though. In regards to the unenforced laws, I was pleasantly surprised that the White House press corp was actually pressing Jay Carney on the issue. You an see it if you google it.

2 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:56:26 AM

Jawknee,
Well what do you want from our crooked DOJ????

You can't look to the Department of Un-Justice for doing anything honest anymore, as it's firmly intrenched in obamanation's pocket now.

And his right-hand man Holder who is huge big part of that whole "Fast & Furious illegal gun-running scam & cover-up that ATF were selling to straw buyers in the Mexican cartels.

In which one of those weapon's ballistics were traced back to the killing of 1 of our own border guards, and probably along with hundreds more of innocent Mexican citizens caught in the cartel's warring crossfire too.

2 up, 3 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 3:20:46 AM

Not to mention the 300+ Mexicans killed with those hot guns from the ATF including a house full of teenagers at a birthday party and that Mexican model who was used as a human shield. If we had real journalists left in this country or if Obama was a republicsn impeachment hearings would be underway.

3 up, 3 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:35:47 AM
Reply

Anyone see that whacko Mike do that columbine documentary? (Don't worry, I know he's a whacko)

One thing he said is true... In Windsor (and most of Canada outside of the GTA and Vancouver) most people don't even lock their doors half the time. Betcha on a road of 30 houses, you'll find many unlocked when people are home. I only lock up when I leave for the day. And even that's just to keep the inlaws out. lol

2 up, 0 down

wackazoa
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 10:44:47 AM

The thing I took out of that movie was that we need to teach people how to aim. It was ridiculous the fired to miss ratio.

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:42:20 AM
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BTW, the Obamanation's own politically corrupt home-city of Chicago has had one of the strictest gun laws in America for some time now, and they still have around 500 shootings a year.

Those shooting's aren't from law-abiding citizens, it's from the political, the criminal thuggery, & also the gang-banging elements that Chicago is world famous for.

So all those gun laws that Chicago put in place a while back, have only caused their own law abiding citizens to fear for their, & their families, own safety, and in their own city at that.

3 up, 2 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:46:27 AM

Chicago has some serious gang issues for sure. That city has more homicides than many countries.

But I'm not sure all those points are necessarily related enough to indicate causation.

2 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:50:54 AM

I'm not necessarily suggesting this, but food for thought...

Australia used to have a fair number of gun deaths per year. Then in 1996, they had a mass shooting. They immediately banned all guns. JUST LIKE THAT. Since then, no mass murders, and now they only have 0.09 per 100k. That's not even 1 gun related homicide per million people.

3 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:07:44 AM

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

The same thing happened in the UK. Also Germany and Norway have massive restrictions on guns and they have had some of the worst mass shootings in history. 77 kids killed by one guy in Norway and in 2006 a nut killed 16 people with a revolver in a German school.

Last edited by Jawknee on 1/31/2013 1:08:09 AM

2 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:25:52 AM

Underdog15,

Funny you should mention Australia, and if I might also add Britain to the "banned guns" scenario too,(and BTW, I'm sure that it also depends a lot on who or which differing sites both sides of the gun camp use to check for info or statistics), I've read that though overall crime is lower now in both countries, that much more serious violent crimes has also shot up since the bans at both countries.

And as Jawknee also pointed out, America has got a way more vastly populated amount of urban/city areas than either Australia or Britain.

And mark my words, watch now that New York's Governor Coumo has instituted a gun ban, & his other crony, Mayor Bloomberg of New York city is also trying to do, just watch the serious violent crime statistics rise there too, as the law-abiding citizens become helpless.

But right now, most NY gun owners are setting up shop to defy & revolt against any NY gun bans, & they will not register their guns, so that the state & federal government can track & confiscate their rights to own their guns.

I believe NY will become the test-bed of "the government vs it's citizens" as the government get's more intrusive into our lives, and against our lives.

BTW, if you want to real stories on what our government has been doing or is planning against it's own own citizens, just Google & YouTube these....

1. Drones in America

2. F.E.M.A internment camps
(complete with 10's of thousands of black body bags, caskets, with razor wire facing the inside of these camps, & high guard towers).

3. Hundreds & hundreds of well-documented railway cattle-cars sitting at off-side railroad sidings right by the FEMA camps.

1.4 billion bullets ordered by the Deportment of Homeland Security, to be dispersed to agency's that don't need them, such as the Social Security Administration, the Environmental Protection Agency, & others. When asked, DHS said it was for target practice(but you never waste target practice with hollow-point bullets or all that other high-powered sniper ammo that they also ordered.
Plus they just put in another order for 7000 AR15 semi-auto rifles, yes the same rifles that they're trying to ban from.

These are just but a few of the many sneaky conniving things our government's been up to.

Obamanation's up to no good & he's doing everything in his power to bring America down to it's knees, so his socialist cronies, his Muslim brotherhood, his American-hating UN cohorts, & his China & Russian buddies can step in & take over, That's also why he's defiantly stepping up his 5+ trillion more of in-excusable debt, while plying Egypt and other America-hating country's with 4 F-16 fighter jets, along with 300+ top-of-the-line-battle tanks.

You may scoff now & say I'm just a 60 year old crackpot, but you-know -what?????
I've got 20 to 40 years on a lot of you here & I have lived long enough to know how good it was back then, & how much things are rapidly spiraling out of control & free-falling towards a worst-case scenario for America.

I just that one day in the near future(and once it's too f*cking late), you'll all wind up saying, "Damn, that old guy Saint really knew what was up.

I pray that I'm wrong, but if our own anti-American continues to spiral out of control by acting out against it's own citizens, I can foresee a very bloody & horrific 2nd civil war on America's horizon.

And if that happens, then you'll never need anther video games, just because "The Last Of Us" will become a living reality....and our worst survival/horror nightmare.

"GAME OVER"

2 up, 6 down

dumbnut
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:37:41 AM

I love how they use recent shooting deaths in cities like Chicago as a tool to take away our guns, when they know full damn well that its their gun bans that are basically asking for someone who is evil enough(notice I didn't use the word crazy) to gun the people down. Talk about hypocrisy right in our faces.

3 up, 2 down

wackazoa
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 10:43:08 AM

I have to admit Biker, that sounds like a terrific movie. Only problem is I do believe we've seen it before.

1 up, 1 down

Highlander
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 5:38:47 PM

Biker,

Truly I do not mean to offend you, but a lot of what you aer saying sounds highly paranoid. Your fixation on Obama and this non-sense "his socialist cronies, his Muslim brotherhood, his American-hating UN cohorts, & his China & Russian buddies". Dude that is so far removed from reality, I just don't know if you're being serious or not.

In all honesty, there's just no point even attempting a discussion with you on this topic, if you are even half serious with these comments.

As for the rest of the discussion...

No one, not one of you, has countered the very simple and elegant points made by Underdog - with able assistance from excelsior;

Last year handguns killed 48 people in Japan, 34 in Switzerland. 21 in Sweden, 52 in Canada, and 8 in Great Britian. 10,728 people were killed by handguns here in the United States last year.

The US is still an outlier with 3.6 per 100k compared to second place's 0.5 per 100k.

Australia used to have a fair number of gun deaths per year. Then in 1996, they had a mass shooting. They immediately banned all guns. JUST LIKE THAT. Since then, no mass murders, and now they only have 0.09 per 100k. That's not even 1 gun related homicide per million people.

I lived in the UK for 30 years or so, and was there both before and after the gun ban was put into place. Before the ban, guns were very rare, after they were even rarer. You just did not hear of, or see many incidents involving firearms. People can cherry pick news items and out of context articles all they like. Banning guns in the UK did not raise crime levels. A deep recession has raised crime levels, it always does. They fall back when the economy improves. But, I will say it again because it's important to know. Banning hand guns in the UK did not raise crime rates or for that matter the rates of violent crime. Actually for the ordinary citizen in the UK, the ban had no real impact since the number of gun owners involved was already so small.

On the other hand I've lived in the US nearly 20 years. I know that the citizenry having assault weapons is something relatively new, as are concealed weapon permits. I don't recall these from the 1970s, and I know damned well that they are not in the 2nd amendment. Nor would the Supreme Court have backed that expansion of the amendment in years gone by. I know this because there are Supreme Court decisions relating to the 2nd amendment where the justices address such concerns. So please, let's stop pretending that restricting the ability to buy assault weapons like candy is an abridgement of your constitutional rights.

To be perfectly frank, the panicked and unreasoned reactions of many pro-gun individuals and groups is embarrassing. The simple, inarguable fact is that the gun death rate per 100K of population in the US is ridiculously high compared to any other developed nation on earth. You can't argue that fact, it's not open to interpretation. All nations have there share of crazy people, people with unstable mental abilities and so forth, all have video game players that play shooters and other genre. The biggest single difference between US society and other developed nations is the availability and sheer number of guns, arms dealers (aka gun shops), gun shows and so forth. We as a nation are armed to the teeth, and apparently that's not enough for some. There are more gun shops that McDonalds in the US. You can acquire guns with no waiting period or background check. Assault weapons are easily available as are hollow point bullets. Guys, it's a frightening place to be when so many are so well armed.

Is it really so horrible to suggest better background checks for people that are buying highly dangerous lethal weapons? Really?

2 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 12:55:33 AM
Reply

You know, if I didn't like my avatar so much, I'd probably write less. Love this pic.

Anyways, bedtime.

0 up, 0 down

Vitron
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:03:21 AM
Reply

So, the thing that does the actual killing, well for real, is less dangerous than the one than rarely implies the idea of killing. Sen. dude, Video games doesn't even cover half the reason why people kill.

0 up, 0 down

DeathOfChaos
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:13:16 AM
Reply

That silly Lamar, up to it again *laughs loudly as if at the end of a sitcom*

0 up, 0 down

wackazoa
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 10:34:38 AM

I belive Dr. Evils laugh is more appropriate.

1 up, 0 down

daus26
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:06:56 AM
Reply

I took a couple of psychology classes in college. This kind of thing has never ever been proven to affect people in the way these guys are saying. It's already been studied, and it can only really affect people with special, specific conditions, such as extreme cases of loneliness or depression.

What they need to work on is how to keep people at a young age keep sane, because every one as an adult is the result of their past history/childhood. Again, that's where parents and adults comes in play. Whether it'd be community clubs, after school activities, or volunteer programs, keeping kids out of trouble and active in society should help decrease future violent acts like these.

3 up, 0 down

AcHiLLiA
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:35:40 PM

Spot on.

0 up, 0 down

dumbnut
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 2:21:57 AM
Reply

I would be very embarrased as well. It's totally idiotic to believe that video games/movies drive people to kill. But, if this topic distracts the gun grabbers from thinking about stealing our guns and destroying the 2nd Amendment - then fine. I would rather have this kind of argument vs talking about our 2nd Amendment being infringed.

1 up, 2 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 3:09:01 AM
Reply

The gun & video game haters should infringe on neither.

0 up, 2 down

Dancemachine55
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 4:08:20 AM
Reply

I wonder if he knows that his kids or grand children (if he has them) play video games.

Which would I prefer to give my kids?

Merry Christmas!! It's a gun!! Go have fun!!

or

Merry Christmas!! It's a Wii U with Black Ops II!! Have fun!!

Wow! The stupidity and ignorance of some of these older politicians is just incredible! It's like they live in their own little bubble and bag on us gamers in our bubble even though they've never even set foot in our bubble!!

Now I know how the good hard working Muslims feel when the extremists do stuff that make them or their religion look bad to non-Muslims. Problem is, they've got it on a scale 1000 times worse than ours!!

Really makes ya think, doesn't it?

4 up, 0 down

wackazoa
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 10:32:56 AM

Awww come on dude. Everyone knows the only bad thing that happens from guns is that someone might lose an eye.

1 up, 1 down

Dancemachine55
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 4:31:17 AM
Reply

Listen to the song "Cookie Jar" by Jack Johnson. Excellent song that summarises the passing of blame after the event of a shooting.

Every time I see another shooting on the news, I think of this song and how incredibly true it is every single time these events occur.

0 up, 0 down

Snaaaake
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 6:16:33 AM
Reply

At this point, might as well say every single goddamn crime were caused by video games.

Video games here, video games there.
The criminals are innocent pricks tainted by video games?

2 up, 0 down

wackazoa
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 10:31:43 AM

Well now that you mention it, I do believe that was Al Capone's defense strategy.

1 up, 1 down

Knightzane
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 7:19:25 AM
Reply

Because video games are easily accesible weapons. You put a clip into the bottom, like a pistol. You pull back the barrel and your ready to go. I had this video game, man it was so epic. It could hold 14 bullets at once. It was stolen though by some kid who was around 13 and wanted to play GTA in real life. The odd thing was my video game was gta so i guess he got what he wanted.

0 up, 0 down

0_o
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 9:51:13 AM
Reply

Is he for real?! O.O

0 up, 0 down

wackazoa
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 10:30:19 AM
Reply

I feel the even greater crime is that we as citizens of the U.S. keep voting in these politicians. But thats for another debate Im sure....

1 up, 0 down

DjEezzy
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 11:37:17 AM
Reply

With all these stats that are getting thrown around... Do they take into account the make my day law in alot of our states? Do they take into account people defending themselves? I honestly don't think they do. The thing is... whether there are more strict gun laws or not. If someone wants to get a gun they are going to get it, plain and simple, legally or illegally. Really the point of this article is that these uneducated politicians are just blowing smoke at people. To blame someone else for crazy people acting crazy. Thing is... if it wasn't guns it would be knives. If it wasn't knives it would be freaking nail guns. It's always something and everyone supposedly has to suffer for the small minority flipping their lid and killing people. It's extremely unfortunate and sad, but law abiding citizens should not be punished because of it. Really... these things happen all the time. It's the media that just makes everything this epic disaster everytime it happens. But these things happen so few and far between that it doesn't really warrant changing part of our constitution to appease to a bunch of political junkies. Sandy hook was a true tragedy, it really was. My heart goes out to the little ones and their families. But i have a feeling that if there was stricter gun control then, it probably would've happened anyway with a different set of weapons or guns. Taking guns away doesn't get rid of the crazy people and video games dont just create a bunch of crazy people.

1 up, 1 down

Zeronoz
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 11:53:04 AM
Reply

I agree with the Senator; video games are dangerous! The cover alone can poke your eyes out and did you know that if you accidentally scratch your game disc it can make you emotionally unstable?

3 up, 0 down

Simcoe
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 1:53:31 PM

Your post reminds me of a very old SNL skit with Dan Aykroyd and Candice Bergen. Dan Aykroyd who plays Irwin Mainway is a guest on Consumer Probe and argues how his products are safe and how other so-called "harmless" products could become dangerous. I'd post a link but region restrictions mean it probably won't work for most people.

0 up, 0 down

JDC80
Thursday, January 31, 2013 @ 4:44:10 PM
Reply

I might get some thumbs down because I'm entering the politics route with this rant, the gun lobby owns the Republicans(some Democrats in the south) so they're watching the gun lobby's back by trying to pin blame on something else and video games are easy to them because all you gotta do is show a clip of Grand Theft Auto IV where someone is mowing down people including cops and let the outrage fly.

Most of us been playing games since the NES and Sega Genesis days or even earlier than that and I never heard anyone nutting up killing a whole bunch of people then blame Metal Gear for it. Now I'm all in favor of making sure people who have mental issues can't get their hands on M rated games but folks don't go into these places smacking people with Grand Theft Auto and Gears of War game cases. The fact is people use guns to commit these crimes, either by stealing them from someone who brought the gun legally or exploiting the gun show loophole which don't do background check.

The NRA is all about making money for the gun industry and nothing have to do with their members, people don't need military style guns like AR-15 or semi automatic guns. Unless these people are hunting Predators or armor covered bears. The bullets that come from these guns will shred anything it hits.

Video games are more regulated than guns if I go to a Game Stop clean-shaven the person will ask me for an ID if I wanted to buy Call of Duty or Devil May Cry and on current gen systems you have parental controls so little Jimmy or Sally can't fire up that M rated game they took out of their older brother's room. As for guns I could exploit loopholes or just get someone to buy one for me. Even people who made it their living to claim video games are the root of the ills of society can't prove video games have direct cause.

3 up, 2 down

dumbnut
Friday, February 01, 2013 @ 3:05:22 AM

@JDC80

"The NRA is all about making money for the gun industry and nothing have to do with their members, people don't need military style guns like AR-15 or semi automatic guns. Unless these people are hunting Predators or armor covered bears."

To the contrary, the 2nd Amendment was made, not for hunting(which is such a WEAK argument that the Left would have you believe), but for protecting us from not only a foreign enemy, but from our OWN government - in case they decided to get a little too...oh I dunno...TYRANNICAL???!! This is the reason that most Americans SHOULD have a military-type weapon(s).

I like what George Washington's view was: "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. "

0 up, 0 down

Tanker9111
Sunday, February 03, 2013 @ 9:36:32 PM
Reply

Games DO affect me... they make me not want togo to work and pay taxes to those kinds of sobs ;)

0 up, 0 down

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Sen. Lamar Alexander: Guns Aren't The Problem, Video Games Are

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