PS3 News: If FFX HD Is A Rip-Roaring Success, Will Square Enix Come Around? - PS3 News

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If FFX HD Is A Rip-Roaring Success, Will Square Enix Come Around?

I'm almost afraid of what Square Enix is going to do in the next generation. I'm afraid that I will never care about another Final Fantasy again. For a 20-year fan of the franchise, that's freakin' terrifying.

And in looking at Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, it's tough to remain optimistic. Still, there may be a glimmer of hope in the form of Final Fantasy X HD. We've just learned that the remaster may include another remaster; Final Fantasy X-2. That would make the upcoming package all the more appealing to die-hard followers of the series.

I'm reminded again of a Square Enix PR rep asking on Twitter if people would really want to see a Final Fantasy VII remake. That Twitter page consequently exploded but the most astonishing part of the entire occurrence is that Square Enix was surprised. That proved right there that they've been completely out of touch with the FF fans for a very long time. However, they are doing this remaster, right? And what if it's a smash success? What if it sells like mad? What if it breaks sales records for remakes/HD remasters? Would that be a wake-up call?

Despite the fact that I believe an alien intelligence has stolen the common sense of any and all Square Enix bosses, the company still wants to make money, right? So if they couple the declining sales of the Final Fantasy franchise (no chance this year's Lightning Returns sells all that well) with the super high sales of Final Fantasy X HD, that couldn't really be ignored, could it? Something that clear and obvious couldn't be. Just no way. Then again, that alien intelligence may have done its job too well...

Tags: square enix, final fantasy x hd, ffx hd, final fantasy x remaster

3/20/2013 11:03:36 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (60 posts)

cLoudou
Wednesday, March 20, 2013 @ 11:17:07 PM
Reply

They'd probably do something dumb like remake the XIII series.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, March 20, 2013 @ 11:27:06 PM

Or like... Mystic Quest...

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 3:27:19 AM

Haha, exactly. Or they will do what they have been doing. They will be like: "Sooo, people really want annoying characters, no overworld, no exploration and a super linear adventure stamped Final Fantasy? Carry on gents."
*Sigh*

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 7:29:57 AM

FFX was incredible.

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 12:03:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 1:05:29 PM

Kinda like... 2+2=4 in my opinion?

Nope. Fact. Objectively and statistically of AAA quality.

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 2:12:11 PM

Congratulations, you have an opinion, just like everyone else, and you believe your opinion is fact, like most people.

Do you want me to spell the definition of a "fan" out for you?

Joking aside, review scores, or enjoyments of games, are subjective, what on earth makes you think otherwise? You really think everyone in the world gives FFVII a 10/10? Then you have a very narrow mindset I'm afraid.

Saying "FFX was incredible" is as subjective as you can get. Granted, me saying "annoying characters" is quite subjective as well, but the "no exploration" - "no overworld" and "linear adventure" are indeed facts. You can't dispute that, but if it's "incredible" or not is up to the individual.

Lastly, whether it's of AAA quality or not, does not make the game play better or give it a better story. You might say it subjectively gives it better sound assets and graphics, but again.. AAA quality only means a lot of money has been put into it, nothing more, nothing less.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 3:27:52 PM

Ishkur: In no way is a review entirely subjective. That's false and always has been.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 3:57:20 PM

Nope. I'm right. So is the 92 meta score and tge over 8 million sales making it the second most popular ff, hense objectivity. All your points are wrong, all ffs have linear stories and I never said anything about ff7 and i certainly never called it a ten.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/21/2013 4:04:27 PM

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 4:07:46 PM

@Ben

True, a good reviewer would of course try to be as objective as possible, but there are no guidelines or special rules of how one should review a game, thus they end up as how the reviewer experienced the game. Since games are experiences. There are way more in a game that can be subjectively rated than objectively.

Gameplay mechanics can be subjective preferences.

Music choice IS. (duh)

Sound assets could be said to be objectively better to fit a certain atmosphere or setting, to take an easy example, BF3 vs CoD (any). The guns and feedback you receive are a lot more immersive in BF3. They are OBJECTIVELY more immersive! "Wait a minute Ishkur, aren't you contradicting yourself, shouldn't you quit this debate here and now?" you might say. And I'd say "NO!". Because lo and behold, the preference of immersing oneself in superbly realistic audio is, you guessed it, subjective.

Graphics are as well. One could indicate that HD graphics are prettier than what we had on the PSone, but a lot of indies are going back to 8-bit and 16-bit styles of graphics, and who knows, we might go back to the clunky PSone style at some point. (I'm not indicating we will have less powerful machines, that's stupid). I like to think of it as clothing fashion, I mean just look at all the hipsters! :D

Overall message of the game, and the story ( or if there even is one) is -again- subjectively good or bad. Some people like B-movies you know. For example Underdog15 obviously likes excruciatingly awkward laughs I presume. ( J/K ;) )

I'm gonna stop here, because in fact, I can't think of one thing that doesn't fit into the "can be subjective" category in a game. It's an interesting topic though.

@Underdog15

I shouldn't - (because you believe the goodness of a game is based on a metacritic score and sales) - but I'm gonna.

I never said anything about a linear story, I said linear adventure, pertaining to the gameplay. Nothing wrong with a linear story IMO.

Regarding FFVII: So if you don't give FFVII a 10/10, why do you think some people do? Because it's SUBJECTIVE. :)

Last edited by Ishkur on 3/21/2013 4:12:40 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 5:09:50 PM

You're going out of your way to try and infuse subjectivity for the sake of opinion.

It's not about what is more immersive. Of course that's subjective. QUALITY, however, is not. One can easily determine the quality of the sound effects in a game if one is familiar with the industry. One can easily gauge the quality of the music as well. You may not LIKE the music in Journey but there's no denying that it's of an elite quality.

No, subjectivity is absolutely not a bigger part of a review. Gameplay is focused on mechanics and control; if those mechanics are flawed, they're flawed. Each and every facet can be rated on a quality scale, which is where the expertise of a critic is needed. It's why not everyone on the planet can write a professional analysis just because they're a fan. I don't know enough about the film industry, so while I can have my opinion, I don't have the background to intelligently analyze direction, choreography, cinematography, etc.

Immersion is just an overriding term that changes from person to person. Beneath it all is a host of aspects, most all of which can be objectively viewed because there is QUALITY to be determined.

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Ishkur
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 6:31:51 PM

@Ben

I agree with you, but underlying all of the objective qualities a game has, the reviewer subjectively adds a personal rating to that quality, agree?

The music in Journey might score higher points than the sand simulation to one, and the other way around to another.

So the calculations your brain makes of these different qualities when making a judgement on the games attributes, like which is more important to what etc, are again subjective. Yes, the soundtrack of Journey is of high value and well recorded, but does it play a big role in the overall game? Does it help to even have music? That's what I see in reviews. I don't see review sites stating things like "And the soundtrack has been recorded at the *insert studio*, using a *insert recording device* at *insert kbps*. Now that's objective.

Fun example:
If Simcity was solely objectively reviewed by everyone, they would follow a strict guideline of how to review a game when it is not working, let's say that they don't judge it at all when they can't log in due to technical difficulties. The reception would be VERY different. But check out the scores: ranging from 20 to 100 on metacritic
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/simcity/critic-reviews

(I know you're not saying that reviews are solely objective, but I used Simcity as an example to prove my point, that reviewers out there don't follow the same guidelines but their own(making their reviews "subjective rating weigh high in their reviews"))


Even the score to a game is rated more or less significant to different people. A numerical score of 5/10 is perceived very differently to different people. Some see it as a mediocre game, others see it as not worthwhile to pick up.

Again, striving to be an objective reviewer is very admirable, but very unrealistic if you want as many views to your site as possible. It would be a very boring site with data and crap no one cares about.

And I'm not saying anything is wrong with reviews being subjective, in fact I think it's great. It's great to find a reviewer that has the same thought processes when looking at a game as you do. But so many don't realize it - I didn't some time ago - and so many think that opinions are fact, which is funny but untrue.. :P

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 9:08:00 PM

There's a lot wrong with a review being too subjective. And that's because while opinion changes from person to person, quality does not. Quality is mutually exclusive from personal opinion. It doesn't matter if somebody likes a Big Mac more than a fine cut of filet mignon; it doesn't make the Big Mac a higher quality piece of meat.

And because the reviewer can't possibly know the individual opinions of millions of people, it's his or her job to focus as much as possible on the objective elements; i.e., determine the product's overall quality, which has no bearing on opinion. The bottom line is that a good game is a good game, mostly because of its quality and not because someone just thinks it's good.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 9:34:19 PM

I've been coyly toying with you without writing a big long write up because Ben is right... no amount of subjectivity in the world removes the fact that the game is amazing.

All ff's are of near equal linearity in adventure too. You go from one place to the next, and most areas are blocked off... for example, you can't get to icicle inn until you get to icicle inn in ff7. In FF8, you can't get to Centra until Balamb Garden allows you to. You can't get to Esthar before the story says so either. FF6 doesn't let you advance beyond what the story allows either. Early NES FF's you sort of could, but not really as you'd still be limited by a lack of transportation or because an area has uber strong monsters you have no hope of beating yet.

All you've said is that the objective facts don't matter because some people might not like it anyways. So? I really don't enjoy God of War, nor do I enjoy Grand Theft Auto. That doesn't mean neither are excellent games. I can at least acknowledge that objectively speaking, they're amazing. (I still don't know why you brought up FF7 suddenly. It made no point.)

I could have spent time explaining that FFX is just as linear as other FFs, but I didn't need to. It didn't have a world map (or overworld) but no FF since 9 has. I prefer one, like Ni No Kuni proved to be valuable, but as long as I have a sense for a vast world, I'm happy. There was plenty to explore, including optional areas. As for gameplay, you couldn't get more turnbased. Not sure what you disliked about it. The battle system was incredible. FFX-2's battle system, I would argue, is the best of the entire franchise as it included all of the most iconic features of the FF franchise. (classes, turn based, an ATB, and all while remaining fluid and allowing the user to be completely in control)

But all that is moot. I mean.. even some of the subjective things you dislike were objectively incorrect (saying there's no exploration or that the gameplay was poorly done). They were very well done. You just didn't like it. THAT is what is subjective. Your opinion on whether or not you like it is opinion. What features are the most fun are your opinion.

The quality of the gameplay, the graphics, the sound, the innovation, the story.... are not subjective. God of War doesn't suck. My friend Mark doesn't like Uncharted. I don't get that one, but still, that doesn't mean whether or not Uncharted is a good game is subjective.

And that's the difference between you and guys like Ben and I. We at least look at a game we don't like and can recognize when it's objectively a well done game. You think Ben enjoys playing Call of Duty multiplayer? My guess is no. Yet he can objectively comment on it's accessibility, 60 fps, and fluidity and give it a fair mark while commenting on what it genuinely does well.

You need to figure out that you just didn't like FFX. For some reason it didn't click with you. But you need to realize there are very real reasons to acknowledge why FFX was an amazing game. For the objective reasons you still haven't been able to shut down.

Heck, I'm pretty pissed about how FFXIII turned out. But go look at my user review or anyone else's really... because most people on this site are capable of seeing quality even when it doesn't resonate with them.

I'll be honest... trying to say FFX was not an amazing game is really strange. It's one of the best selling for PS2, one of the highest scoring, and at the time of it's release, it was SUPER advanced beyond anything a console had ever brought to the table before. It raised the bar substantially. You clearly don't remember it's impact at release. It was absolutely unlike anything of its time, especially graphically, but also in terms of turn based gameplay, music, and cinematography of it's cutscenes.

I just can't understand how anyone couldn't give it credit where credit is due. It's straight up asinine. I can't imagine you've been happy with a single jRPG since the turn of the millennium.

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Ishkur
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 3:33:57 AM

@Ben

An easy to understand analogy, and I see what you're saying. Okay, let's look at it from another angle; science. The most objective thing in the world, but still scientists can't seem to keep their opinions out of it, so you've got disagreements all over something that should be objective. But we're not objective beings, we take everything we've experienced throughout our lives and add it to our analysis of things. We're not robots (yet).

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you there. The quality of a game is entirely opinion based, as is the quality of numerical values. I hear some people don't even care about the scores and only read the text :) That's something to strive for.

I think you all have misunderstood what objectivity is. True objectivity doesn't claim anything to be amazing, beautiful or incredible period.

@Underdog15 I'll come back to you, got school ;) have a nice day everyone!

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Ultima
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 9:52:02 AM

UNderdog:

Hey, FFXII had an overworld and a world map. The most vast FF world and most free to explore too. >:|

And I agree with Ishkur, re: quality. "Quality" is absolutely subjective. One person's "quality" is another person's "garbage", since it all depends on what criteria you use to judge with, what you prefer, etc.

Not agreeing that FFX wasn't quality though, cause it was. Er, is. ;)

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xenris
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 10:52:52 AM

I agree 100% with Ishkur except for I liked FFX :P

But the reason why I find game reviews more subjective than objective is when you look at metacritic. Even some high profile games get review scores that are across the board. Does that mean that the "professional" reviewers from another site are objectively wrong? I don't think so, I just think it is one person playing a game and having a different experience than another, nothing more nothing less.

@Underdog

As for CoDs multiplayer doing things genuinely well, well it doesn't. I mean it makes things accessible for a wide audience, by using lag compensation, huge hit boxes, terrible interpolation, massive aim assist, kill streaks, and death streaks. Those are my objective reasons for CoDs multiplayer being trash, objective because they are there REGARDLESS of whether you want them to be or not. However millions of people enjoy or don't even notice or care about them, but I do and so do many other shooter fans who want skill put back into the genre.

If I was to state my opinion on the matter, I would say that game reviews are 35% objective, 65% subjective.

I do understand the objective stance by the way, I also understand if I review a game of a genre I don't like like RTS I would say I don't like this genre but the game is good etc. But I'm not going to review it higher based on what I think it should get am I? That to me is a disservice as a reviewer, as long as I am clear with why it gets the score and people know that then they can say "well he didn't like it but I love RTS games and he said it was good for people who loved deep RTS games but it didn't jive with him so I will get it."

That is the type of reviewing I try to do when I'm telling friends about games I like or dislike.

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Ishkur
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 3:02:27 PM

@Underdog15

We could go into an argument about what I dislike about FFX and why you think it's okay or good that they did this and that. But again, it's your subjective opinion against my subjective opinion. You know the phrase "arguing on the internet is like.." and that is exactly why. People think their opinions matter to someone, but they don't (unless they are of the SAME opinion PS thank you Ultima and xenris, thought I was alone for a second there ;D )

I could also point out the differences in freedom and exploration from FFIX to FFX, but it would again be opinion based. I will tell you this though, I went through the whole game up until the last area (Zanarkand?) when you get your airship (fast travel menu) and was soo disappointed. Again, the disappointment comes from my own experiences added to my own analysis of the game, and here's why.
My first FF game was VII, which I loved, and up and until FFIX I thought they couldn't do any wrong with these games, they just got better and better while still keeping the same formula. So they changed that formula up and made it (opinion incoming) uninteresting.I agree that the battle system was and is awesome. But everything else jeez.. Especially the voice acting ruined the game for me, or should I say the characters.. But nevermind all that.

I do get that FFX was a great game for most people, but it's still just an opinion and doesn't make the game great for me. It was a good game in some areas, dreadful in others. The graphics were great, awesome for it's time, but that doesn't mean that everyone liked them.

And I'm not trying to shut down objective reasons why FFX did a good job. I'm saying what you call objective and what I call objective are two different things.

It's dishonest to be frank, to tell people they should buy a game if you didn't even like it.

I can tell my friends they should buy Journey, but I don't think they will like it. They like Fifa, CoD and other stuff like that. So it would be a disservice actually :P

Related story: not long ago a friend and I talked about video games through facebook, and I said something in the lines of
"too many games graghh"
and he said "not for me there ain't"
so I said "well what do you wanna play, maybe I can help you out"
and he said "I dno, some good RPG - something like Dungeon Siege"
so I went "right I remember you playing that game. so is the setting important? elves and shit?"
he said "uhm I dno"
I said "what about anime school teenagers and demons? or a 10 year old boy going on an adventure?"
(I don't think he owns a Vita, but with his pay, psh no problem)
he says "uhm no thanks, I prefer elves"
after careful thinking (probably about half an hour later) "I've got it, Dragon Age Origins man"


Anyway.. What a shitty story.. To my knowledge, he might not have bought the game, and he might not even like it. x) But the point still stands. As Ultima said so well, albeit misphrased; "one man's trash is another man's treasure".

To think that others might not like what you like is, well.. Part of growing up. Opinions are like assholes you know.. Everyone's got one, and they're all full of shit.

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xenris
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 5:15:54 PM

Dont worry Ishkur I have your back on this one. I have gone back and forth with Ben on this a lot and while I'm not going to try and change his opinion there were some cases that I was trying to show him that what he called objective was not.

For example he didn't like the combat in Ni No Kuni, and thought you got into to many battles. First if he didn't like the chaotic nature of the combat that is subjective because I did, and it kept the game feeling fun till the end for me. Second getting into "too many" battles was a design choice. It was to ensure you were the proper level by the end of the dungeon you were in. On top of that you could easily run away from most creatures on the world map, and to make matters better they started running from you once you outleveled them so backtracking was a breeze.

The most recent game that confirms game reviews are more subjective is the game Deadly Premonition. It scored across the board from 2s to 10s. Now which reviewer got the objective score there? It has a huge cult following for some reason so obviously it is great for some people.

I think the most important thing about a review is for the reviewer to explain their stance either with video or written so that the reader isn't confused as to why it got a low or high score. Something Ben does well and that allows people to agree or disagree with his review which is actually better serving the community I think. Even if I don't agree with some of his scores I'm like okay I see why it got this and he didn't like that etc, but I could say well I like those things so I will get it :)

Anyway its a hard topic to argue in text would be awesome to have a debate about it in person with teams of people that would be fun :P

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Ishkur
Saturday, March 23, 2013 @ 2:32:03 AM

It's hard enough to change anyone's opinion IRL, so to think you could come and do it anonymously on the internet is a bit of a stretch.. :D

But it's always nice to see someone get what you're saying.

And yes, I'd love that debate in person, sadly there are few people I know who care about video games as much as I do :P

PS Can't wait to play Ni No Kuni once I get my hands on it :D played the demo multiple times, and really liked it :)

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daus26
Wednesday, March 20, 2013 @ 11:43:11 PM
Reply

The twitter overload regarding FF7 remake wasn't enough for them to realize ANYTHING, so I don't think the success of this will do any better, or good for that matter.

But it would be nice if FFXHD outsells Lightning Returns. Even if it's not going to change them, I don't want Lightning Returns to be overly success because that's just going to give the green light to go all out in that direction.

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GuardianMode
Wednesday, March 20, 2013 @ 11:43:18 PM
Reply

Hopefully....but with a unhealthy fixation on Lightning, I am a little worried. This game will be the first day one from SE since FFXII. Can not wait to see Tidus/Yuna dance sequence at the crystal pond in all its HD glory.

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bigrailer19
Wednesday, March 20, 2013 @ 11:56:44 PM
Reply

Im not confident they'll realize anything significant. If they havent got the hint by now.

I am however super excited to see it smash the sales of the 13 series. ;)

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Teddie9
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 10:43:38 AM

That's what I can't wait to hear, too bad I won't be able to see the look on their faces...they'll be confused for years.

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Qwarktast1c
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 12:05:55 AM
Reply

LMAO Ben you said it, not me

"Despite the fact that I believe an alien intelligence has stolen the common sense of any and all Square Enix bosses.."

http://t.qkme.me/35s6j0.jpg

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Zemus101
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 1:31:35 AM
Reply

I'm personally enjoying the FFX related articles, Ben. I hope just about everyone gets hyped up for it, we already know FFX is great! Now we need it to sell well. Really well. As you said.

Knowing Square's production values, I'm guessing this will be the best visual upgrade to a PS2 classic we've seen yet.

Last edited by Zemus101 on 3/21/2013 1:32:26 AM

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JuicyShinobi
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 2:07:34 AM
Reply

This is some good news. I never had the chance to play the international versions but now this is the chance. What's even better is that FFX and FFX-2 are truly one of my most cherished childhood games, and now to be able to play them again in better visuals is awesome.

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RockhounD
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 2:14:36 AM
Reply

Sadly, SE will probably just end up making something like Final Fantasy X-3: Lightning Invades

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 7:30:14 AM

Wiseman, YES.

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Snaaaake
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 4:22:49 AM
Reply

No, just no, looking at them now, SE is just garbage.

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Vivi_Gamer
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 4:46:27 AM
Reply

If anything I am looking forward to this iOS version of Final Fantasy V. it's one of the only numeral titles I have yet to play, the original and the PS1 version look really bad, not just the sprites bu the fonts on the menus too. You have the GBA version which neatened it up, but they changed the dialogue completely on them versions. I played the GBA version of FFVI and the dialogue was so different the characters simply weren't the same. I'd still get it on the PSP though...

But yes hopefully this FFXX-2 remake will out sell this garbage that is Lighting Returns and S-E will see the traditional JRPG experience we all want.

On a side note, has anyone seen the scans, I don't like the look of the Tidus character model, his face is completely different...

Last edited by Vivi_Gamer on 3/21/2013 4:47:19 AM

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 4:50:38 AM
Reply

I am sorry but there's no way these old games has any potential whatsoever of being a "rip-roaring sales success" on todays market. It will be a charming collectible for the most die-hard of the die-hardest old-school jrpg fans, but that's it.

And I'm willing to place a bet behind my words here. Any takers? ;)

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 7:35:48 AM

The original sold over 8 million copies. Even 20% of that would be pretty huge for a remake, no?

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 10:14:09 AM

Indeed it would. But is more than 1.6 mill sold copies of this game your definition of a "rip-roaring success"?

Very well, I'm in. Let's set the bar at 1.7 mill. If this game sells more than 1.7m during the first 6 months (we gotta define a time limit here) I am willing to publicly accept that as a "rip-roaring success" and lose the bet. If it sells less than 1.7m, I win. Deal?

So what's in the pot? Shall we say... The first PS4 game rated higher than 8.5 here on PSXE after this remake is released?


Last edited by Beamboom on 3/21/2013 10:18:28 AM

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Teddie9
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 10:45:28 AM

I think you might be suprised beam, the game is not so "old school" as you describe it to be.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 11:08:25 AM

Might want to wait for a release date, and I'm not sure how the different regions will affect it, but sure. Lol

If its also for vita, it might sell close to that number in jp alone!

Oh ya, how can we track digital sales?

Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/21/2013 11:09:37 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 11:17:23 AM

Beamboom, nobody puts remakes, remasters, and HD upgrades in the same category as new titles in terms of sales potential. Of course it isn't going to sell like Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed. But I'm telling you right now- FFX HD has the chance of outselling any title released IN ITS CLASS of remakes/remasters.

And you're vastly underestimating the size of the Final Fantasy fan populace that has been devastated by disappointments over the past generation. I don't think you really understand. Even with all the new games available digitally when Final Fantasy VIII came to the PSN, FFVIII was #1 for months.

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 12:16:49 PM

Ben, noone here is putting them in the same category. But how many copies do you define as minimum to qualify for teh description "a rip-roaring success"? And more importantly, what will Square Enix define as that?

Cause bottom line is that I believe y'all are over-estimating the potential of these releases. That is my bold claim, and I am willing to make it interesting. You in on the bet too? :)

Underdog,
I agree, but let's bake those factors into the bet? How about we say that the bet stands if the release date is before the end of 2014 and released for either the ps3 and/or the ps4, not including the Vita, and vgchartz as the source.

Deal?


Last edited by Beamboom on 3/21/2013 12:18:20 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 12:58:52 PM

I think simply saying that it will outsell any HD overhaul/remaster ever is defining enough. I don't know the number but how can it not be classified as a huge success if it does this?

What you're not getting is that just because we've seen HD remakes and remasters before, we've never seen a game (or games) that have been AS wanted as Final Fantasy. Nothing even close, really, besides the Metal Gear Solid HD package. And MGS has never really ostracized millions of loyal followers.

Comparing FFX HD's potential to the potential of any other remake or overhaul almost isn't fair.

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Underdog15
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 1:10:26 PM

I wonder if it's CrossGame or whatever they call it with PS4, if they would even differentiate the two sales, anyways.

My only problem with vgchartz is that they don't account for digital sales, and I see this being a major downloadable title.

But all in all, I'm in.

Also, I'm depressed about having to consider it might not release before the end of 2014. lol!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 1:31:00 PM

You're nuts, it's not some old charming game as you say. You must not have played an actual FF.

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 2:53:15 PM

Ben,
What you're not getting is that I get what you're saying, no problem there, I just don't believe you are right. That's the thing. I can go more into *why* I believe this later on if that is of interest, I just want to settle this bet we got going first. :)
But yeah, I get what you think and why. I mean, how could I not get that, after all these years with PSXE articles about the old FFs. I'm not *that* slow, really. :D

But are you in on the bet too? The magical number here is roughly 20% of the original sales, ergo 1.7 mill, set by Underdog, within the first 6 months.

Underdog15,
I agree that the lack of digital sales is a problem here, and I suggest we add that too to the premises of this bet. Ergo that when the time comes digital sales must be included in vgchartz (or a similar site). Cause by the end of 2014 I am pretty certain there are official charts for digital sales also for the consoles.

WorldEndsWithMe,
You are right! I've never played any of these FFs. So, you in on the bet too?
This will be expensive for me if I lose now, but I'll harvest quite a good collection of games should I be right. I'm willing to take that risk.

If I lose I'll ship the first psxe reviewed game after this release that fetch a rating of more than 8.5. If I win, I'll receive the next two titles with that same score threshold.

You in on that?

This'll be exciting!


Last edited by Beamboom on 3/21/2013 2:56:26 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 3:31:34 PM

No, the bet can't go by numbers. It should simply go by it's success in its category; i.e., that of HD remakes and remasters. If it's in the top 5 all time, I'd say it's a huge success. But I wouldn't be surprised if it became #1.

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Beamboom
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 3:54:05 PM

Hmm. I agree that the success within the category is essentially what we are after but we need a undisputable number here, something that can't be argued.

Cause what does it really take to make it to the top five, anyway? It's not *that* many remakes and remasters released. What if #4 had a sales of say 150k, well that's not a "rip-roaring success" for a company no matter how we twist and turn it. Or what if Assassins Creed 5 came with AC 3 and 4 bundled in upgraded, true HD versions, would that count as a remake/remaster? Or should that be excluded?
There's plenty of thinkable scenarios like that.

No, we really do need a number. Something that is transparent and undisputable. Something that we all agree on and can relate to.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 8:48:45 PM

You can't do numbers because those aren't published.

I don't want any part of this, it would be unfair to you. Final Fantasy X is going to sell very, very well because there are millions of fans that haven't had a real Final Fantasy fix in a very long time. Even XII only scratched some itches. Many many people purchased the PS1 games when they were released, this will be an HD master that retains the greatness of the past entries. Never underestimate what millions of people will do to get as close as possible to the experience they've missed for so many years as their favorite game company withered into a shadow of its former self.



Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/21/2013 8:49:35 PM

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Beamboom
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 4:27:10 AM

World,
I agree there is a problem that essentially none of us have any idea what we are talking about here when it comes to numbers.

But aren't we now sorta drifting off the core issue? Cause the keys here are "a wakeup call", "a rip-roaring success", not "best sold remake".
Can't we define what a rip-roaring success is in numbers, at least roughly?

Cause let's now say that the best selling remake up until now is really low. Like, 200.000 sold copies. Now, if FF5 sell 220.000 copies, that'd firmly put it at #1, but is that in any way a number that will be a "wakeup call" for SE, or is it more a confirmation that these games belong to the past?
A leading question, yes, but you get my point?

In order for this to be a "wake-up call" for SE it needs a minimum number of sales. And you guys talk like you believe a good share of the guys that bought the original release will buy this again. That's what this article hints at, and *that* is where I believe you are wrong.

I think the number that Underdog came up with sounds reasonable. If it sells less than a mill I don't think anyone will wake up cause of it. And in order to be "a rip-roaring success" the number needs to be substantial - regardless of how well or bad the other HD re-releases did.


Last edited by Beamboom on 3/22/2013 4:27:49 AM

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telly
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 10:35:09 AM

@Beam, no way I'm taking that bet :) I unfortunately think you are right. FF X HD will do well, but I don't see how the sales would be so overwhelming as to force SE to re-evaluate how they make their most recent entries in the series. As others have noted, FF VII and FF VIII are often at or near the top of the PSN sales chart -- has that stopped SE from developing ANOTHER sequel to FF XIII, and this one with an action slant to boot?

The evidence has always been quite clear for some of us that fans would much prefer Final Fantasies that had more in common with the classic entries from the 1990s. SE sees that evidence and continues to make XIII sequels. I'm not sure what, if anything, would convince SE to change course at this point.

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DIsmael85
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 7:48:12 AM
Reply

No.

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___________
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 8:51:32 AM
Reply

dont be so naive!
IF it sells really well, and i doubt it will, $E will condure it up to new fans exploring old games but still wanting something different.
they wont acknowledge that there still are old fans wanting old games, they will draw the conclusion that its new fans trying old games.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 1:29:25 PM

you doubt it will?

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___________
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 11:09:15 AM

dont doubt, know.
$E are so pigheaded they will convince themselves its down to current fans wanting to play another current game, rather than old fans jumping for joy $E has finally given them what they wanted!
same goes for crapcom.
i really want the HD remake of RE revelatons to do REALLY well, simply because if it does it hopefully will show other developers there IS a market out there for survival horror!
crapcom wont, they will ignore it and make RE7 even more a gears wannabee!
but hopefully it can influence more indie developers towards it.

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Teddie9
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 10:48:45 AM
Reply

Not a chance it'll change their ways but it's the only game that they've announced that I'll buy.

Day one at that.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 1:29:07 PM
Reply

Since sales of digital games are hidden I don't think we'll ever know.

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gungrave
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 5:11:12 PM
Reply

FFX HD is simply a side project for them to fund their next project. I highly doubt they will go back to the old style. Jrpg's are no longer very popular as they once were. Back in the day action games, fighting games, and rpg's ruled the market. Now it's FPS and Open world games. I wouldn't be surprised if the next FF game fell in one of these 2 categories. It wouldn't be a bad thing if done right, but I do believe it's time to let go. If you want to play a great rpg, fire up the PS2 and enjoy PS1 and PS2 games on it.

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SuMtOnE
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 7:03:08 PM
Reply

Remake Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger... Secret Of Mana too... mang I grew up playing those 3 games which got me hooked on JRPG...

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Temjin001
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 9:44:34 PM

I hear you about that trio. For me it was just SNES FFIII but I was well aware of the other two as my buddies adored at least Chrono Trigger. I take just a little pride in being a pre-FFVII fan of the series.

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LegendaryWolfeh
Thursday, March 21, 2013 @ 9:10:45 PM
Reply

I actually dislike FFX very much and couldn't even finish it :) Come at me.

I'd rather them remake all the PS1 games please.

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Ultima
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 11:01:12 AM
Reply

In defense of Square: Square's console (read: PS3) output this generation has been abysmal, but their -portable- output since the PS2 days (DS, 3DS, PSP) has been -amazing-.

Also, Final Fantasy Dimensions on iOS/Android is OG and boss. Only got to play the demo so far (currently going through Persona 3 Portable, and when I finish that I'll go through FFD), but it definitely seems good, and reviews have confirmed that it's great.

Square has had a rough time at it on console this gen. VGLeaks has offered a plausible reason for their near non-existent output: Aside from taking really long to get a handle on current gen hardware, it seems they -really- screwed the pooch with the initial release of Final Fantasy XIV. We know this to be true. But deemed it too important not to get right the second time, and thus pulled many of their internal teams to work on the relaunch, halting their other projects in the process (such as FFX HD, which is why we heard nothing about it for 18 months after it was announced). With a Realm Reborn currently in beta, those halted projects should be back onstream.

Furthermore, assuming FFXIV doesn't tank again, and assuming that Square will get a faster handle on the next-gen hadware (via the various engines they have since developed), Square should be better shape to actually *gasp* make console games again.

I'm not saying anyt of this -will- happen and that Square will stop sucking in the console space. But I believe there's reason for hope.

Now, as for a return to OG Final Fantasies, that I wouldn't bet on. I think we'll see more variations on FFXII or FFXIII's systems (the latter being a vastly scaled, down, much sped up version of the former), possibly with more Action RPG elements. If Versus XIII indeed becomes FFXV, it'll essentially mean that FF has gone full on ARPG (since, last I checked, Versus XIII is basically Kingdom Hearts). FF Type-0, which I hear is very good, is also ARPG. So turn-based ATB FFs (at least major console efforts) may be a thing of the past; that doesn't mean that -quality- FFs can't come back though.

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DrRockso87
Friday, March 22, 2013 @ 11:20:28 AM
Reply

I'd kill if they decided to remaster Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus on PS3. Yeah, yeah, I know. They're both not a Final Fantasy VII remake but honestly, those two in HD are much more likely at this point.

Are you listening, Square?! Make them happen already!!

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GuardianMode
Saturday, March 23, 2013 @ 1:50:08 PM

What he said times one gaballion!

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