Rockstar: Xbox 360 DVD Too Small, Fitting GTAIV a Problem
Overtime, more and more publishers and developers have come out to vindicate Sony's decision in using Blu-ray media as the primary medium for the PlayStation 3. Earlier on, skeptics told Sony that Blu-ray was pointless, that it only drove up the cost of the PS3, and that DVD storage was enough. As time has gone by, those skeptics have been proven wrong time and time again. Dan Houser has made perhaps the most important critique and justification of Sony's decision to use Blu-ray.
See Full ImageWho's Dan Houser? The Co-founder, along with brother Sam, of Rockstar...you know, those Grand Theft Auto guys. Speaking to 1up, Dan Houser states the standard dual-layer DVD simply isn't enough, and that it too became a problem during GTAIV's development. This raises some concern on whether or not the next Grand Theft Auto game will fit on an Xbox 360 disc, because Rockstar's motto has consistently been focused on making each and every new game larger than the last.
"One of the problems with the 360, and it affects games like Grand Theft Auto if you think about how much content we put in the actual machine, is the fact that they don't have a significantly larger storage medium than the previous systems. It's a slightly bigger DVD disc," Houser told 1up.
The hard drive issue is also another problem Rockstar sees with the Xbox 360, as not every Xbox 360 has a hard drive, which makes it very hard for Rockstar to implement HDD features into the X360 game. Continuing on the subject of limited disc space, Houser states, "the 360 is going to have to get 'round this issue we're talking about...hopefully, they're going to adopt one of those in the next year or so, because it's going to become more of an issue. If we're filling up the disc right now, where are we going? It's not like our games are going to get any smaller."
This bit of news brings up two thoughts in my head. 1) It wasn't just the PlayStation 3 that was responsible for the delay, as it seems rather clear that condensing content onto the Xbox 360's disc was a problem for Rockstar. 2) This problem seems all too familiar, as it's affected Nintendo in two generations, with the GameCube, and especially the Nintendo 64. Dozens of developers gave up working on the Nintendo 64 because of how limited the cartridge was, providing a maximum of only 64MB. But unlike the N64, the Xbox 360 has a solution: multi-disc games, which were very common back in the PlayStation days. For example, Lost Odyssey for the Xbox 360 boasts four DVDs worth of gameplay.
So does this potentially mean more multi-disc games in the future for the Xbox 360? Probably. What it doesn't mean is that Rockstar will release GTAV exclusively for the PS3 next time around, so put your shiny magic balls away.
4/23/2008 Arnold Katayev
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Comments
BlinkBoy
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 1:25:33 PM
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Because it have to be something they did to make it.
1 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 1:56:05 PM
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2 up, 1 down
ThePoetRazel
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 2:01:13 PM
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Also, to work on multi-disc the game is restricted in certain ways. Maps would have to be split across discs and so not randomly accessible. This will obviously deter development of large sandbox style games on the 360. Thus will probably limit the choice of game types on the 360, thus limiting the audience. Then, both the Wii and 360 would only cater to a limited audience while the PS3 still being able to cater to all. This is good news for the PS3, as most gamers are fairly varied in their tastes.
2 up, 0 down
Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:41:03 PM
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ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 2:31:56 PM
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Tatsujin
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 10:04:38 AM
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tramp
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 2:46:29 PM
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why cant rockstar be a developer that cares about their work and tries to get the best from themselves....shame really
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Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:42:41 PM
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Minishmaru
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 3:33:23 PM
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1 up, 0 down
Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:46:20 PM
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timster118
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 3:41:44 PM
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4 up, 0 down
Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:48:10 PM
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Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:48:45 PM
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Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:48:59 PM
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Fabi
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 4:40:28 PM
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It's a shame if GTA4 did get adjusted to fit onto a DVD.
I also recently read an article that pretty much said M$ is being stupid for not promoting the future DL content for GTA4. They needed to sway people now, not later when GTA4 is 6 months old.
It releases in like a week. I think they lost their opportunity to convince those people that weren't sure what system to get.
It will be hilarious if the PS3 version outsells the 360 - even if it's by a small margin.
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Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:50:38 PM
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dillonthebunny
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 5:19:23 PM
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but what is fact is that MS have rejected BRD in favour of the future of downloads.
so unless the game stays on dvd or becomes downloadable, who the hell knows what will happen!! but imo both ideas are narrow minded.
ps.. ive posted some links to gameplay vids of GTA4 in the forum under OXM review.. check em out, seriously!!
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LCF
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 6:13:11 PM
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screw_off
Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 10:06:44 PM
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Tatsujin
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 10:10:54 AM
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Chris
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 3:39:31 AM
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BLU-Ray is a great storage medium but the drive speed caused developers loads of problems, whilst data can fly off a DVD, a crappy 1 X speed drive means that dev's now have to write lengthy installs in order not to have long load screen on the ps3, i have the original UK 60gig ps3, and I think my harddrive will be full before the year out...
BLU-Ray great for capacity, sucks for speed...
oh, and in addition the 360 will have whole city sized downloads available to it to install on their hardrive, whilst all we get is a 5 min install to keep the load times down when going from one area to another
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Tatsujin
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 9:42:24 AM
For that second part, your obviously an undereducated moron, completely... Both systems have absalutly no load times, and both systems have 5 min. installs. The only loading time FOR BOTH SYSTEMS is a one time load at the start of the game. Do your homework kid...
P.S. You can swap your hard-drive as most of us do to a bigger HDD capacity... And for your info. Blu-Ray caused no developer any problem last ive heard. Infact, for what we all know from what the developers say, they are praising Blu-Ray over DVD and HD-DVD.
Go play your Shitbox 360 kid, stop posting here -.-
Another P.S. The "exclusive" content presented to Live users isn't whole city's at all... Infact, they are only extra/added missions to the game. And if they where to develop whole-city downloads, I think theyd do it over PS3... Epic already proved how great the PSN is over Live in this area with UT3.
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KidCallaway123
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 10:33:56 AM
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If the Xbox360 media isn't able to hold all of the content (which we all know is true) then they don't get as good a game.
Why should PS3 owners get short changed in the deal??
Blu-ray rules!! PS3 rules!! Tatsujin Rules too!!
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Tatsujin
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 10:43:45 AM
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Jdogtoocool
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 5:36:13 PM
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Another thing people the Wii is not the better system out of the three. It just sells a lot because Nintendo is doing a very good job of gathering family's attention through strong propaganda...
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ThePoetRazel
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 6:04:58 PM
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Lordnicon
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 7:03:11 PM
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evilweasl55
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 7:15:30 PM
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Tatsujin
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 9:37:51 PM
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Tatsujin
Thursday, April 24, 2008 @ 9:53:01 PM
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DrakeVorhees
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 1:02:38 AM
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Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:12:39 PM
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orangpelupa
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 2:36:54 AM
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But BR have more space, and PS3 have big HDD, so the slow reading speed can be fixed by installing some parts on HDD.
for x360, i think the DVD9 is still enough, if rockstar make new , biger GTA game, rockstar just need to use new compression method. that compress more extreme,
but yes, this will extend lloading time...
loading when go to safehouse, etc will become longer.
and rockstar need to think hard how to stream the world data in real-time with a data have very high compression LOL
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Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:15:08 PM
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 3:12:54 AM
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Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:16:15 PM
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ThePoetRazel
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 4:27:46 AM
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Tatsujin has been making good points, while these guys personal attacks show a weak argument.
@I_HATE_FANBOYS: claiming to have all 3 consoles is a common tactic well known to be used by fanboys to fake legitimacy. So you'll excuse me if i take your claim with a pinch of salt.
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 4:53:31 AM
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http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2771/dsc00195rq9.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/909/dsc00196qa8.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/196/dsc00197ud7.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/760/dsc00198uf4.jpg
copy and paste the links to see images of my current setup, although my second HD tv is currently in the other room, I tried to include a close up of this current post to verify authenticity.
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 4:59:52 AM
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0 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:18:52 PM
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bigrailer19
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 10:50:11 AM
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DrakeVorhees
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 1:34:45 PM
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Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:21:06 PM
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MetalHead09
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 4:05:46 PM
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 6:06:33 PM
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I cant disagree with the fact that the capacity of dvd will be a major restriction to the lifespan of 360 and with ps3 having blu ray it is better equiped for future space requirements. But dealing with pure facts - No one has come from R* stating that gta4 has been cut down because of the dvd9 format. At this point ps3 only major advantage is blu ray but that has not yet become a required element. There are plenty of top notch games out and due on ps3 that dont fill 9gb of the bluray disc. At this point my 360 gets far more use for 2 main reasons:
1, Far more killer apps - at this pointI cant name a single game that is exclusive for the ps3 worth buying the console for except UT3 dont get me wrong over the coming year there will be more but even GT5 is not the leap from forza 2 sony would have us believe.
2,XBL no matter which way u spin it the online facilities for 360 are not rivaled by PSN, yes its free but match making is poor voice chat is often unavailable either due to poor software support or lack of standardised headset, online store despite its re-vamp is still not as effective or feature packed as marketplace and suffers from much slower download speeds. Yes I pay £40 per yr for xbl but dl speeds are usually 5-6 times faster all online games have adequate voice chat, friends list and community is well connected, not to mention full HD movie rentals and much bigger library of DL content. Im not saying ps3 is bad, it will last longer than 360 but at this moment in time it offers a much better value for money HD gaming/media connect service.
What else other than blu ray and remote play with psp can the ps3 offer over 360?
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Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:23:21 PM
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 7:24:58 PM
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 6:24:42 PM
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Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:24:59 PM
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 3:31:31 PM
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MetalHead09
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 10:20:07 PM
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0 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:25:31 PM
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DrakeVorhees
Friday, April 25, 2008 @ 11:27:42 PM
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1 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:27:22 PM
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MetalHead09
Saturday, April 26, 2008 @ 11:23:04 AM
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Lacky
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 6:35:51 PM
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So the DVD9 isn't even full. Compression technology has come so far. The 360 has a ways to go before it is completly useless. I own both a 360 and a PS3 and i picked this bad boy up for the 360.
Sorry folks, I do not believe the hype behind the "Cell" processor. Fact of the matter is BOTH consoles are on their way out. Rumor I heard is both companies have a new system in development slated for a 2010 release. I'd imagine IF sony does release a new console in 2010 lot of you Sony fans will be pissed off.
I am sure if Microsoft releases another console prior to Sony blame will be placed on Microsoft for the next generation. Only time will tell, but as for now ya'll need to realize the games that are requiring the 50gb of UNCOMPRESSED data also utlize CGI cutscenes and multiple Language audio tracks. MGS4 could easily cut a huge amount of space by releasing "region specific" language tracks.
How them facts? As for the PS3 vs Xbox 360 sales, I could care less. I am more interested in seeing TOTAL SOLD as it is going to be out of this world. I've had my copy since Friday (thank you dumbass employee's) and I am simply ADDICTED!! Not sure how far I am, but the graphics are damn amazing, but I do see the AA effects being lacking at least on the 360 versions. I believe the shadows look like crap! Other then that tho, I am simply loving Liberty City.
Well that is my post, back to some GTA IV boys.
PS the load times ain't bad at all on the 360 and I love the fact the city is completely streaming! That is why rockstar gets my buck.
2 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Sunday, April 27, 2008 @ 11:30:21 PM
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 2:23:10 AM
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 3:34:28 PM
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 2:29:57 AM
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Feel free to call me a moron again if you wish it just shows you are incapable of objective debate and need to resort to insults to hammer home your point of view
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 3:32:58 PM
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Arnon
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 4:47:25 AM
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I do agree that the PS3 is overall a better hardware gaming console, but-
First off, if your a fanboy of eithier console(^^he is), you have major problems, because eithier way you will regret not having the other console. Right now if your a hardcore gamer, you have to be nuts(or stupid) to not own a 360.
Eventually MS fanboys will regret not having the PS3, for exclusives such as MGS4 and others.
Now, about the 360 and fitting on the DVD9, Rockstar had to use compression methods to do so, and they did it. Did it delay the release? No, and if did so at all, it was not nearly as much because of that then rather, the lack of a standard HDD in every 360 model.
What caused the most problems for Rockstar, 360 wise, was that they had to get by the problem of not all models of the 360 had a built in HDD.(Read that article, Rockstar clearly mentioned this)
Now, here's is why the Blu-Ray argument becomes null and lacks substance.
By the time most developers like Rockstar take advantage of it..as in GTA5, you KNOW the next Xbox will be here. Expect the next Xbox in 2011 or at worst 2012, and don't expect GTA5 until 2013 at the earliest.
Why 2013?
Because it took Rockstar 5 years to develop GTA:IV, and part of that was getting by the idiotic RAM design of the PS3 and the lack of a HDD in every 360.(like i mentioned before)
Now here is how the PS3 caused problems for Rockstar:
Rockstar stated in a past article that the split Ram of the PS3 was causing trouble because they had to borrow more VRam from the CPU allocated pool, and in doing so the frame rate(Nov. build) was taking a major hit.
On the flip side the 360 is a breeze to code for, because it's Ram is unified, and any amount can be allocated to textures at any time, with no framerate hit.
Now, please tell me the point of having BR when the PS3 still is bottlenecked with a weaker Ram structure?
Riddle me that, one? Please, and you PS3 fanboys know the answer.
Now DVD9 is enough for this generation, unless you think your 360/PS3 will be current enough in say 2012/2013, because both will not.
THEN in 2012/2013, it makes perfect sense to have the combo of BR and say 4-5Gig's of internal Ram.
So BOTH, yes BOTH consoles held back what GTA:IV could have been, the PS3 in it's weak Ram structure, and the 360 in that it lacks a HDD in every model(a bigger fault then having DVD-9).
Let's be thankfull Rockstar got the game done, with limitations on both consoles, because each has it's faults. So to all fanboys, STFU and enjoy the game already, ok?
3 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 3:37:51 PM
0 up, 1 down
bloodthirst90
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 5:39:13 AM
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0 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 3:38:52 PM
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Arnon
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 6:04:32 AM
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 3:39:27 PM
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I_HATE_FANBOYS
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 10:32:30 AM
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Cant wait to play the game - I am either an extreme gamer or very sad (you choose I dont really care) to have pre-ordered on both formats - It was the only way to be able to play online with all my friends Ive got a sneaky feeling 360 will be the better for that task but im not so sure about single player, guess I will know by this time 2mo lol.
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 3:40:50 PM
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Arnon
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 5:39:07 PM
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Arnon
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 5:40:43 PM
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 5:49:24 PM
In short- In a year or 2, the 50 gig looks as if it will be a joke to major companies, and 100 gig will be looking strong.
Yes, GTA will probably still be produced for X360 in the future, but I can say it right now, both games for PS3 and X360 are NOT going to be identical, because 1) It makes no sense to cut down on one system for another(Going both ways, for PS3 and X360) And 2) Ps3 can generate a lot more content than any system right now. Think about it
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Arnon
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 5:54:29 PM
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What i'm saying is, is that the Ps3 is an amazing gaming system and has more potential than any other but, because they put all this unused technology into it, we're not able to fully grasp the entire concept which limits us.
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 6:05:22 PM
The Blu-Ray player does not, at all... I reapet, DOES NOT, AT ALL, need any drive speed upgrades because it did the same at the same speed as an HD-DVD and even more, therefor the Blu-Ray is perfectly fine.
The Cell Processor is a very strong processor, but once agian... it is also being used close to it's maximum by most devs. and if not close, then to it's limit.
When games first came out for PS3, the devs where unknown or lost within the tech. of the PS3 because the PS3 is a true next-gen system that takes some getting-use to. But now, these days... these months, and with the new Phyre Engine, it seems the PS3 had a hidden power no dev knew about, and now that its here for a find, many devs are going to take advantage of it...
Sorry to sound like im making some Fantasy story, it kinda freaked me out too just reading it O_O
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Arnon
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 6:35:12 PM
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Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 7:10:27 PM
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coolistic
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 6:45:36 PM
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So don't worry about the next generation just yet.
0 up, 1 down
playthis
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 9:40:35 PM
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1 up, 0 down
Tatsujin
Monday, April 28, 2008 @ 10:30:42 PM
I don't exactly get where your trying to go with "PS3 is dropping the ball on developer support"... Without developer support buddy, your system is shit, simple as that. The PS3 has more than just developer support also... Lab projects, simulators, medical research, movie production and video games are all lifting the PS3...
I love it how X360 fanboys come in here and let their ass do the talking, how they come up with nonsense that they know isn't even close to true, and for some odd reason they still post it. How about you stop posting here?
Remember what your X360 fanboy-friend Arnon said... People that talk random shit feel "insecure on their investments into the company" Enough has been said here...
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Arnon
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 @ 7:43:42 PM
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Tatsujin
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 @ 9:25:32 PM
And Microsoft won't find jackshit that can hold 50 gigs on a CD, Blu-Ray took Sony and it's backers more than what? 10 total years maybe? Read Blu-Ray's history babe, Microsoft isn't going anywhere with disc compacity anytime soon.
0 up, 1 down
Arnon
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 @ 7:46:03 PM
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1 up, 0 down
Arnon
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 @ 11:34:02 PM
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1 up, 0 down
Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 @ 6:27:42 PM
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Arnon
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 @ 11:39:33 PM
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Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 @ 6:29:27 PM
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Arnon
Tuesday, April 29, 2008 @ 11:43:27 PM
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Tatsujin
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 @ 6:32:59 PM
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Arnon
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 @ 10:27:21 PM
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Arnon
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 @ 10:30:05 PM
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Main article: Cell microprocessor implementations
[edit] Blade Server
On the 29 August 2007, IBM announced the BladeCenter QS21. Generating a measured 1.05 Giga Floating Point Operations Per Second (GigaFLOPS) per watt, with peak performance of approximately 460 GFLOPS it is one of the most power efficient computing platforms to date. A single BladeCenter chassis can achieve 6.4 Tera Floating Point Operations Per Second (TeraFLOPS) and over 25.8 TeraFLOPS in a standard 42U rack.
IBM Press Release
[edit] Console video games
Sony's PlayStation 3 video game console contains the first production application of the Cell processor, clocked at 3.2 GHz and containing seven out of eight operational SPEs, to allow Sony to increase the yield on the processor manufacture. Only six of the seven SPEs are accessible to developers as one is reserved by the OS.[19]
[edit] Home cinema
Reportedly, Toshiba is considering producing HDTVs using Cell. They have already presented a system to decode 48 standard definition MPEG-2 streams simultaneously on a 1920×1080 screen.[29][30] This can enable a viewer to choose a channel based on dozens of thumbnail videos displayed simultaneously on the screen.
[edit] Supercomputing
IBM's new planned supercomputer, IBM Roadrunner, will be a hybrid of General Purpose CISC as well as Cell processors. It is reported that this combination will produce the first computer to run at petaflop speeds. It will use an updated version of the Cell processor, manufactured using 65 nm technology and enhanced SPUs that can handle double precision calculations in the 128-bit registers, reaching double precision 100 GFLOPs.[31][32]
[edit] Cluster computing
Clusters of PlayStation 3 consoles are an attractive alternative to high-end systems based on Cell blades. Innovative Computing Laboratory, a group led by Jack Dongarra, in the Computer Science Department at the University of Tennessee, investigated such an application in depth.[33] Terrasoft Solutions is selling 8-node and 32-node PS3 clusters with Yellow Dog Linux pre-installed, an implementation of Dongarra's research. As reported by Wired Magazine on October, 17, 2007, an interesting application of using PlayStation 3 in a cluster configuration was implemented by Astrophysicist Dr. Gaurav Khanna who replaced time used on supercomputers with a cluster of eight PlayStation 3s.[34] The computational Biochemistry and Biophysics lab at the Universitat Pompeu Fabra, in Barcelona, deployed in 2007 a BOINC system called PS3GRID[35] for collaborative computing based on the CellMD software, the first one designed specifically for the Cell processor.
[edit] Distributed Computing
With the help of the computing power of over half a million PlayStation 3 consoles, the distributed computing project Folding@Home has been recognized by Guinness World Records as the most powerful distributed network in the world. The first record was achieved on September 16, 2007, as the project surpassed one petaFLOPS, which had never been reached before by a distributed computing network. Additionally, the collective efforts enabled PS3 alone to reach the petaFLOPS mark on September 23, 2007. In comparison, the world's most powerful supercomputer, IBM's BlueGene/L, performs around 280.6 teraFLOPS. This means Folding@Home's computing power is approximately four times BlueGene/L's (although the CPU interconnect in BlueGene/L is more than one million times faster than the mean network speed in Folding@Home.)
[edit] Mainframes
IBM announced April 25, 2007 that it will begin integrating its Cell Broadband Engine Architecture microprocessors into the company's line of mainframes
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Arnon
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 @ 10:31:14 PM
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Arnon
Wednesday, April 30, 2008 @ 10:33:47 PM
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Arnon
Thursday, May 01, 2008 @ 12:49:16 AM
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Arnon
Thursday, May 01, 2008 @ 1:38:27 AM
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bigrailer19
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Wednesday, April 23, 2008 @ 1:24:19 PM