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Petition Against PS3 Game Installs

Those of you who have bought and installed games like Devil May Cry 4 and Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots are well aware of the space required on your PS3 hard drive. And while developers insist this is sometimes a necessity, a group of gamers simply don't like the idea, and have started a petition to stop the trend.

According to SCRAWL, we have learned that Joe Rivera has begun an online petition entitled, "PlayStation 3: No More Game Installs." Here is what is written as a description and explanation of the petition:

"Hard-drive installs are not necessary as you can clearly see in games such as Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, and Unreal Tournament III. These are some of the highest rate games and they do not require a hard-drive installation. Our space is being taken up, and time is being wasted. We use our PlayStation 3's as a media hub rather than just a gaming system. We would like to be able to store movies, music, and pictures on our console, without a new 5GB being added to our space every time a new game releases."

It's very possible that some of you out there agree with this viewpoint, and if that's the case, head on over and sign the petition. We're not entirely sure what good it will do (we don't know if Sony can stand up and simply order developers never to have required game installs), but it might be worth looking into...

7/4/2008 Ben Dutka

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Comments (46 posts)

desserts
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:00:17 AM
Reply

Hard disk installs are essential if developers are to provide network updates to their games. They can't update the files on the read-only blu-ray.

I think the petition should be against Sony installing such a tiny 40Gb disk in the latest model. I was worried my disk wouldn't be big enough when I bought the original 60Gb unit.

My only advice to people is regularly delete game installs. If you need more than 2 or 3 on the system at once upgrade your disk! £35 will buy you 160Gb.

Chris

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Deleted User
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 8:34:25 AM

My hard drive is almost filled up now...and I only have 8 games...some videos, demos and songs.

IF THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A 5 GB INSTALL IT BETTER BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME WITHOUT THE DISK. But of course, it doesn't....so why do I need the 5 gb install AND the disk?

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Akuma07
Saturday, July 05, 2008 @ 12:51:34 AM

to answer what you just said, i have two things to say.


Resistance: Fall of Man.
and
Call Of Duty 4

resistance has recieved 2 network updates i think, maybe 3.
and COD4 has recieved 1 thus far.
neither required an instal.

what you said is just conjesture. it is certainly possible to update a game without having 5GB of data on the hard drive. the SOLE reason the "install data" should be used for, is caching data to make load times practically non exsistant. THAT is DEFFINATELY possible, but so far, the instal data doesnt seem to do a damn thing.

you can download update data onto your HDD, and everytime you boot the game up, the game will search for the update data.

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Fabi
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:05:09 AM
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Are they really essential? Then why doesn't the 360 require them?

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karneli lll
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:11:51 AM
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there are games like uncharted and cod4 that dont need 4gb of hdd,this proves that games can be developed without mandatory installs.personally,i think its sheer laziness on the developer's part.

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aaronisbla
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:19:42 AM
Reply

Its not mandatory on the 360 for one simple fact: There are still quite a few users who purchased just the core system, the one that comes without the HDD. Its this reason why it isn't mandatory. Think of it this way, if GTA4 was mandatory on the 360, that could potentially cut off the ones who purchased the cheapest 360 at launch, something microsoft/game makers probably wouldn't allow.

In fact, i think that was one of MS's large mistakes this gen, every xbox had a HDD when it first drop, why go backwards for their new system?

If all 360's were built with an HDD, guess what? they too would have the mandatory installs.

While the time taken to install can be a pain in the ass, in some cases, its worth it. Not sure why MGS4 requires installs for replays thru the game, thats a bit weird

Last edited by aaronisbla on 7/4/2008 1:23:02 AM

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Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:35:35 AM
Reply

Well, I think it might have something to do with loading times, and disc read integrity or something, but honestly... I'd rather have a few seconds of loading time and have my harddrive free for download content from the PSN, than fill it up with a few games.

Oh, and as far as MGS4 is concerned, I believe it has to do with it installs the current act, and removes the previous one to maintain some kind of free space. Otherwise I guess it would be quite a lot more space. Makes sense in ways, but I still don't see the point being manditory install. Ninja Gaiden Sigma if I recall has it set as an option for faster loading times... Don't see why others can't leave it as an option.

I have about 24gb now on my 80gb PS3, which of that about 2gb are demos, and maybe 1gb in video.


SIGNED

Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 1:40:07 AM

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caliblue15
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 9:03:45 AM

1x Blu-ray is faster then 8x DVD.

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Gabriel013
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:40:34 AM
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I agree that some of these install sizes are excessive. The bare minimum should be permanently stored on your HD.

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Vivi_Gamer
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:20:15 AM
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I approve of this fully, I dont see why games need to do this, Devil May Cry 4 is a prime example of a waste of 5GB

My Games
Metal Gear Solid 4 = 4.5GB
Devil May Cry 4 = 4.8GB
Oblivion = 5.3GB
Grand Theft Auto IV = 3.3GB
Resistance = 219MB.....

Thats about 18.2GB gone & im sure other people have more games. Like Karneli sais its absurd to see huge chunks of my HDD gone while games like Uncharted, Lego Star Wars take up nothing.

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aaronisbla
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:40:53 AM
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you guys can sign the petition, but it wont matter, Devs will use installs as they see fit. As annoying as it may be, it seems mandatory installs are here to stay...

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Qubex
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 4:03:02 AM
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I don't agree, I think installs should be used, albeit sparingly if need be. I am sure the developers can make good use of the extra access speed. Do remember that with games such as KillZone2 it will be necessary to asynchronously stream data from blu ray disk and access the harddisk for additional bits should they need too. Devs should be free to decide. No petition signing from me :)

Q!

"aLL RoAdS LeAd ToO HoMe"

Last edited by Qubex on 7/4/2008 4:03:34 AM

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orangpelupa
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 5:11:51 AM
Reply

There should be no mandatory install.
But i will happy with OPTIONAL install.

Original disc Gta IV xbox 360 play nicely. With the about the same pop-up and pop-in with ps3 version.
Altough the ps3 version need mandatory install.
(but ps3 got benefit, it load faster :D)

If rockstar can do gta iv without install on x360, why it need install in ps3?

Are they just lazy?
Or there some technical obstacle on ps3 that make HDD install is a must.

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Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 5:29:29 AM

I think it has something to do with developers having a tough time with optimizing BD disc reading, but I could be wrong.

Even so, as an option, I would rather have a couple of seconds of load time instead of a couple of games sucking up my harddrive to the point I can't do anything.

Sure, you can remove games you're not playing, but what about download content? THAT STUFF WILL BUILD UP! Eventually with enough PSN exclusive games, addons, content, music, video, etc... You won't have space to install a game...

Developers need to understand this should be an option, if people want to deal with load times, let em. If they want it to run faster, give them the option to install. Things like this, will eventually even push me to side with my 360 over the PS3 with the exceptions of exclusives.

Sorry, but for a company pushing digital downloads only, and game companies still releasing on discs forcing installs, and the installed harddrives are too small to handle what everyone EXCEPT the consumer wants... Somebody has got to budge and give in.

Lastly, anyone who knows about computers, knows harddrives get fragmented over time, slowing down, etc. Last I noted, there's no option to defrag my PS3 drive... Am I to believe my drive doesn't need to be defragmented after installs and deletions over time?

No installs at all, no
Installs are required, no.
Option to install if you want. YES

Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 5:32:21 AM

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Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 5:49:18 AM

"Altough the ps3 version need mandatory install.
(but ps3 got benefit, it load faster :D)"

you answered your own question.

it is known that a 1x and even a 2x Blu-Ray drive is slower than 12x DVD drive (what the 360 has)... a 3x is faster than the DVD's min, but slower than it's max (which is where devs put major data). a 4x or higher will beat the DVD drive.

supposedly, the PS3 has a 2x drive... meaning it matches the xbox's minimum speed... but the xbox can "runaway" with it when you get to the faster/outer part of the disc.

what does all this mean? well, it means the Xbox has better streaming ability (assuming the PS3 only has a 2x BR drive).

unfortunately, the dvd drive in my 360 is louder than my PC!!! my PC has 2x 120mm fans and another 5 fans of various sizes, so yeah, it's pretty loud.

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ThePoetRazel
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 6:02:04 AM
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"Hard-drive installs are not necessary". Says an average gamers. While Hideo Kojima, Gaming Genius, seems to think that it was necessary in MGS4. So, who do you think in more qualified to say what is necessary to making a game, the game player or the game maker?

I can understand the frustration when people see their HDD free space rapidly disappearing, but sometimes there's a price to pay for things as good as these games. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Of course, Sony could start thinking about putting larger HDD in the PS3 for those who can't get hold of one to install themselves.

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Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 6:09:55 AM

nah... the better option would be faster BR drives.

i'm betting it's because of the "slow" BR drive that MGS4 needs mini-installs on to the HDD... which currently can transfer at least twice as fast (and then some!).

Last edited by Goobers on 7/4/2008 6:14:12 AM

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Tatsujin
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 12:21:13 PM

There are plenty of ways to get around the slow BR speed, and installations is one of them... I don't think they need to make a faster BR drive, although it is inevitable that they will... But even then, Installations will still be mandatory. Times are chaning, live with it.

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Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:01:43 PM

wow someone went on a "neg-ing" spree.

Tatsujin, i agree there are ways around the BR speed... and to be frank, i'm fine with the install. i have no quams about upgrading a HDD. i have a 320 GB, 500GB and 1TB drives in my PC. though i expect the backup/restore would bother me more.

the reality is... (like someone else said) most people are "ignorant"... i was going to continue this train of thought... but i realized... nope, that's about it.

there are people that say... "i'll take the loading screens over 5 min installs"... BS.

i'll take the 5 min install.. cause you only do it ONCE (in the case of MGS4, once per ACT). you can quit the game 100 times and continue 100 times, so long as you don't leave the ACT... you won't suffer more installs or any loading screens.

but if you take the loading screens... you have to suffer it multiple times PER ACT... multiply that by however many times you play that ACT even if you don't leave the ACT.

in their minds... all it is, is "instant gratification"... they get to play it sooner after they buy it... but "suffer" later. i'd rather take a little time in the beginning and go smoother overall.

Last edited by Goobers on 7/4/2008 2:03:33 PM

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Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:31:08 PM

***in their minds... all it is, is "instant gratification"... they get to play it sooner after they buy it... but "suffer" later. i'd rather take a little time in the beginning and go smoother overall.***

Reversing that statement, it would also be fair to say that your gratification is also instant because you're not dealing with a loading screen, and the frustrations of a few seconds here and there. I have no problems with the time to take installs, I could really care less about that. The fact is, I spent $600 for a 80gb PS3, with a harddrive that is too small for the seemingly growing requirements of the system. A problem they never factored in. With that in mind, why should I have to pay for a larger harddrive because Sony failed to install a reasonable harddrive to meet the quickly growing demands of the PS3 HDD. Especially when it has been already proven with various games installed are not absolutely needed. They might help, but they are far from being a must. This has NOTHING to do with waiting a few minutes to install.


Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 2:33:17 PM

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Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 3:13:57 PM

"Reversing that statement, it would also be fair to say that your gratification is also instant because you're not dealing with a loading screen, and the frustrations of a few seconds here and there."

it's not the same thing.

it's an EARNED gratification. it's true that not having to deal with those things is A gratification... it's not "instant" because time was already taken out and dealt with... thereby negating the "instant." you can't arbitraily compare small sections of time...

let's take a look... let's say you get 5 minutes of install before the ACT starts and you get 5 hours of game play. but without the install, you get something like 1 minute loading with every 1 hour gameplay.

after 5 hours, it's the same, you waited 5 minutes overall. but let's say you don't leave the ACT and basically restart it... well, now there's no install, since it's already there. whereas on the "no-install" gameplay, you still deal with 1 minute load screen per 1 hour.

but on the other hand... let's say you could completed this ACT in less than 5 hours... something like 4 hours, and you played in such a way that you somehow still get 1 minute loading screen per 1 hour... you now only "suffer" a total of 4 minutes of loading screen, where as the install was still 5 mintues. HOWEVER, in reality, most games aren't based on time, but progression or distance (if you have to load another zone)... then it makes little difference.

what about games where you have a HUGE map... and the install shortens the load time compared to non-installs... well, initally, you "waste" more with the install if you don't move far enough to trigger load screens... but the more you do... the more the install starts to save.

it's like rechargeable batteries... they start off costing more than regular batteries... and they do cost some to recharge (electric bill)... and they usually HAVE to be charged up before the first use too. but use them enough, and it becomes "cheaper" than constantly buying regular batteries.

as for the drive... yes, i agree it would've been nice for the PS3 to get a larger drive... but who's paying for it? would you rather spend $700 dollars for a PS3 with a larger HDD? neither $ony or M$ would include a larger drive without passing the cost (and then some) to the end user.

Last edited by Goobers on 7/4/2008 3:15:31 PM

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Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 7:55:00 PM

By the time I would be done adding a larger harddrive for $100 (250gb drive)yes, the cost would be now $700 invested. Would technically be better coming from Sony as they buy these things in bulk at lower costs.

Considering the primary solution you all seem to offer is add a bigger harddrive, guess what? It's now a $700 PS3.

So again, I state my point... Installs should be "optional" (not mandatory, or completely removed) thus making you happy for faster loading times, me happy for not having to suck up the 80gb when that's being done on it's own from downloaded content.

Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 7:57:21 PM

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krazzymoose
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 6:38:05 AM
Reply

You can easily install a bigger hard drive at ease; SEAGATE even has a tutorial on their website. Come on, really, are people that stupid, this is not that big of a deal. The fact that SONY actually lets you upgrade the HD on your own is a significant design superiority over the 360. microsoft makes you but only from them and they limit the space capacity of their HD's. If the game runs better it runs better. like GTA 4, way less lag on the PS3 than the 360 DO TO THE GAME INSTALL on the HD. A superior product is a superior product if you want to hold more pictures and movies than spend the extra time to invest and research how simple it is to upgrade the HD on a PS3. At its heart the PS3 is a gaming rig anyways. This is a ridicules debate.

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danr
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 7:04:08 AM
Reply

Seriously, thats just stupid. Why are you now campaigning to get rid of a brilliant feature?
If you can afford to buy loads of games that will fill up the hard drive, you can afford to buy a bigger hard drive.
I have a 200 gig HDD, although I do only have 3 games...
But I use my ps3 for music mainly, so its getting pretty full.
But the point is that its really not worth getting rid of the installations. Simple.

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krazzymoose
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 7:28:49 AM

Exactly People are so Ignorant when it comes to technology. They overlook the benefits of what they have purely because they do not fully understand what is at there disposal. Focusing all their negative energy on a little set back that actually benefits them in the long run.

Last edited by krazzymoose on 7/4/2008 7:29:05 AM

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BlinkBoy
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 8:55:22 AM
Reply

I have 150 Gb free space on my 250Gb Hard Drive, you can get up to 320 Gb S-ATA 2.5" discs for pretty cheap price nowadays. You just need a small screw driver to install the hard drive in to your PS3 and the warranty will not be broken.

But of course Sony should release PS3s with bigger HDDs in the future.

Plus It won't be long before S-ATA 2.5" 500 GB HDDs will be the normal thing to have in laptops etc. Then I will upgrade again most likely.

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shindelion
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 9:55:31 AM
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i just wish the installations would be smaller than a 1GB

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Bugzbunny109
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 10:13:17 AM
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Off topic, is it me or doesn't it seem that alot of people are joining psxextreme these days?

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Qubex
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 10:59:49 AM

I love carrots bugzbunny109!

Q!

"aLL RoAdS LeAd ToO HoMe"

Last edited by Qubex on 7/4/2008 11:00:35 AM

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Bugzbunny109
Saturday, July 05, 2008 @ 9:56:34 AM

same here Qubex!

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fatchad420
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 10:43:57 AM
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SSD'd are the way to go.

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Tatsujin
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 10:51:18 AM
Reply

This petition is stupid. Who ever made it is stupid. Who ever agreed with it is stupid. Developers know what the fu** they are doing, they wouldn't ust add a fu**ing 5gig install for the hell of it. Leave the game development to the developers please.

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Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:43:40 PM

Wow, calm down, chill out. Hard to take you even remotely seriously when you're going to throw an childish immature rant calling everyone and everything stupid.

And since when did anyone here mention the time it takes it install? Oh, right... NEVER! It's about the limitations of the harddrive SONY puts in THEIR system. As BlinkBoy said, 'Sony should release PS3s with bigger HDDs in the future.' To not do so will only continue to provoke THIS arguement.

I think most people here who understand this arguement (which obviously you do not, and resort to name calling and hostile slandering) would agree with me when I say... "Why should I have to pay for for a bigger harddrive for a system Sony built, sells for a high price, and doesn't meet the demands of the developers."

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orangpelupa
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 11:11:52 AM
Reply

After reading the comments, So its the ps3 blu-ray drive that forcing dev to use mandatory install.

So there no solution for this. Mandatory install will keep going on ps3 games.

Its hardware limitation, devs can do nothing.

But it will be good if they (game devs) make the instalation smaller. 5GB for one game is crazy.

Altough its still a lot smaller than PC :D
Pc GRID need 12.5GB :p

But ps3 is a GAMING CONSOLE, not pc. . . .

I miss the time when game is just plug and play (snes,nes,ps1,ps2)

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Tatsujin
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 12:17:44 PM

Plug and play? It still is plug and play... Your acting like you have to rip down a whole house and build it from scratch... It's a mere 5min average install... Settle down.

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ChOzInWuN
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:04:48 PM
Reply

I agree with orangpelupa and tatsujin you just shot down your own argument cause if it was plug and play you wouldn't need the 5 minute install and the 5gig download. You seem to be the one that needs to settle down, calling everyone that doesn't want to fill his/her hard drive stupid??
"This petition is stupid. Who ever made it is stupid. Who ever agreed with it is stupid."
Come on man whats the problem? After reading that the only one that sounds stupid is the author....btw whoever is one word. I seem to remember you running your mouth in the same way when people finally got irritated with EA and began the process of bringing a lawsuit. Obviously installing a seperate HD is a real solution but believe it or not, not everyone knows how to do that..some people have careers to concentrate on not computer technology. You don't need to constantly hate, you may live longer by not doing so.

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aaronisbla
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:23:07 PM
Reply

This petition proves that no matter how good something can be, some will find excuses to complain. Whatever floats their boat. But when i buy a gaming rig that has an HDD, im expected to use GBs for games, music and pictures are a very distant second.

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ThePoetRazel
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 3:04:25 PM
Reply

@Tatsujin: I know the desire to get you point across, i really do. But calm down a bit will ya? I think you may need to join Serial Posters Anonymous.

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ChOzInWuN
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 9:43:01 PM
Reply

For sure aaron. I only use my ps3 for games but at this pace it will be about a year or so, depending on how hard you game and your ps3 model, and the HDD could possibly be full. And think about those that have the 20gb model...the few the proud, hahaha...they are in for a much sooner demise. If a 20gb owner has Oblivion, GTA and MGS4 loaded onto their system that leaves them with what 5 or so gigs? I thought aaron had it right on about MS not wanting to alienate their 360 owners who have a model with no HDD, but in a minor way making these games near 5gb a piece is doing this to some ps3 owners. I am not going to lose any sleep either way, for now my 80gb is still pretty free, but one day in the future I would like to see these huge downloads go away rather than become common...although if these downloads are the only way to get games to run at a smooth pace then I'll live with it.

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Bugzbunny109
Saturday, July 05, 2008 @ 9:58:28 AM
Reply

I know and have a game that didn't need an install, that game is wining eleven pro evolution soccer 08.

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Gabriel013
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 2:03:14 AM
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I have never changed parts in my PC's and I don't plan on starting with my consoles. I don't care if it is just 1 screw. I agree that some install is necessary (I never said otherwise) but 5gb appears to be taking the p**s just a little. If there really is no other option then fine BUT I appears strange that developers managed without it for a while then there was a sudden flood of install games.

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cheng
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 3:08:07 PM
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I dunno crap about computer technology(for now), but i'll leave the games designing back to the developers, i study computer engineering in college(1st year n already failed 5 exams lol) but i do know how hard the programming is. I'm very grateful 4 games like metal gear solid 4 n devil may cry 4, the developers have put in heart n souls into their games, n if the developers(like hideo kojima) see its best to install the game, i'll be happy enough to go with their idea. no need to make life a tiny bit harder or add a few more hours of work 4 those developers. I do prefer game without installations but its really no big deal with installation, n i wont ever sign the petition, i think this might add a bit of pressure to the developers(if it'll ever do). thank you hideo n thank you for all game developers who bring us those great games :)

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SilverSenshi
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 6:00:46 PM
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This petition is ridiculous. Installs mean faster loading time and less pop in; how can you be against that!? Then again I have been mainly a custom PC gamer most my life so perhaps I have a different view of things; I just don't see the issue here.

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Noodles187
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 9:49:50 PM
Reply

Like a lot of people have said, this petition is ridiculous. For everyone with the problem of a small HDD, I know 2 easy and fast solutions.
1) Purchase and install a bigger HDD. It's fast, effective, and cheap, depending on how much space you need. If you can't afford one, then how can you afford a $600 system and games at $60 a piece?(mind you I'm not complaining about the prices)
2) Delete the Installation Data from your PS3. It's that simple. If you have an old game that's taking up space, deleted the Data, but keep your saved game. The Data is in a little folder above all of your demos. I don't know why no has brought that up.
I personally believe that is is all pretty silly. If people aren't happy with something that lets them play games faster and easier, then I don't think they deserve to have a PS3. It sounds a little harsh, but why did they buy it if they're just going to complain about its hardware. People put lots of effort into these games and systems, and I think that we should all be a little more grateful. Well, that's my 2 cents for the day.

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PaiNT_kinG
Tuesday, July 08, 2008 @ 4:27:06 AM
Reply

i only have about 2 GB left on my 60 GB PS3,LOL

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gringo
Tuesday, July 08, 2008 @ 2:42:56 PM
Reply

believe me.. COD4 NEEDS the install.. you could be waiting all day to get online if information wasn't chached..

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