Petition Against PS3 Game Installs
See Full ImageThose of you who have bought and installed games like Devil May Cry 4 and Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots are well aware of the space required on your PS3 hard drive. And while developers insist this is sometimes a necessity, a group of gamers simply don't like the idea, and have started a petition to stop the trend.
According to SCRAWL, we have learned that Joe Rivera has begun an online petition entitled, "PlayStation 3: No More Game Installs." Here is what is written as a description and explanation of the petition:
"Hard-drive installs are not necessary as you can clearly see in games such as Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, and Unreal Tournament III. These are some of the highest rate games and they do not require a hard-drive installation. Our space is being taken up, and time is being wasted. We use our PlayStation 3's as a media hub rather than just a gaming system. We would like to be able to store movies, music, and pictures on our console, without a new 5GB being added to our space every time a new game releases."
It's very possible that some of you out there agree with this viewpoint, and if that's the case, head on over and sign the petition. We're not entirely sure what good it will do (we don't know if Sony can stand up and simply order developers never to have required game installs), but it might be worth looking into...
7/4/2008 Ben Dutka
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Comments (46 posts)
Deleted User
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 8:34:25 AM
IF THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A 5 GB INSTALL IT BETTER BE ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME WITHOUT THE DISK. But of course, it doesn't....so why do I need the 5 gb install AND the disk?
2 up, 2 down
Akuma07
Saturday, July 05, 2008 @ 12:51:34 AM
Resistance: Fall of Man.
and
Call Of Duty 4
resistance has recieved 2 network updates i think, maybe 3.
and COD4 has recieved 1 thus far.
neither required an instal.
what you said is just conjesture. it is certainly possible to update a game without having 5GB of data on the hard drive. the SOLE reason the "install data" should be used for, is caching data to make load times practically non exsistant. THAT is DEFFINATELY possible, but so far, the instal data doesnt seem to do a damn thing.
you can download update data onto your HDD, and everytime you boot the game up, the game will search for the update data.
1 up, 1 down
Fabi
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:05:09 AM
Reply
4 up, 4 down
karneli lll
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:11:51 AM
Reply
3 up, 4 down
aaronisbla
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:19:42 AM
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In fact, i think that was one of MS's large mistakes this gen, every xbox had a HDD when it first drop, why go backwards for their new system?
If all 360's were built with an HDD, guess what? they too would have the mandatory installs.
While the time taken to install can be a pain in the ass, in some cases, its worth it. Not sure why MGS4 requires installs for replays thru the game, thats a bit weird
Last edited by aaronisbla on 7/4/2008 1:23:02 AM
4 up, 2 down
Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:35:35 AM
Reply
Oh, and as far as MGS4 is concerned, I believe it has to do with it installs the current act, and removes the previous one to maintain some kind of free space. Otherwise I guess it would be quite a lot more space. Makes sense in ways, but I still don't see the point being manditory install. Ninja Gaiden Sigma if I recall has it set as an option for faster loading times... Don't see why others can't leave it as an option.
I have about 24gb now on my 80gb PS3, which of that about 2gb are demos, and maybe 1gb in video.
SIGNED
Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 1:40:07 AM
1 up, 3 down
Gabriel013
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:40:34 AM
Reply
1 up, 3 down
Ultimadesires
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:20:15 AM
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My Games
Metal Gear Solid 4 = 4.5GB
Devil May Cry 4 = 4.8GB
Oblivion = 5.3GB
Grand Theft Auto IV = 3.3GB
Resistance = 219MB.....
Thats about 18.2GB gone & im sure other people have more games. Like Karneli sais its absurd to see huge chunks of my HDD gone while games like Uncharted, Lego Star Wars take up nothing.
3 up, 3 down
aaronisbla
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:40:53 AM
Reply
2 up, 1 down
Qubex
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 4:03:02 AM
Reply
Q!
"aLL RoAdS LeAd ToO HoMe"
Last edited by Qubex on 7/4/2008 4:03:34 AM
2 up, 2 down
orangpelupa
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 5:11:51 AM
Reply
But i will happy with OPTIONAL install.
Original disc Gta IV xbox 360 play nicely. With the about the same pop-up and pop-in with ps3 version.
Altough the ps3 version need mandatory install.
(but ps3 got benefit, it load faster :D)
If rockstar can do gta iv without install on x360, why it need install in ps3?
Are they just lazy?
Or there some technical obstacle on ps3 that make HDD install is a must.
2 up, 2 down
Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 5:29:29 AM
Even so, as an option, I would rather have a couple of seconds of load time instead of a couple of games sucking up my harddrive to the point I can't do anything.
Sure, you can remove games you're not playing, but what about download content? THAT STUFF WILL BUILD UP! Eventually with enough PSN exclusive games, addons, content, music, video, etc... You won't have space to install a game...
Developers need to understand this should be an option, if people want to deal with load times, let em. If they want it to run faster, give them the option to install. Things like this, will eventually even push me to side with my 360 over the PS3 with the exceptions of exclusives.
Sorry, but for a company pushing digital downloads only, and game companies still releasing on discs forcing installs, and the installed harddrives are too small to handle what everyone EXCEPT the consumer wants... Somebody has got to budge and give in.
Lastly, anyone who knows about computers, knows harddrives get fragmented over time, slowing down, etc. Last I noted, there's no option to defrag my PS3 drive... Am I to believe my drive doesn't need to be defragmented after installs and deletions over time?
No installs at all, no
Installs are required, no.
Option to install if you want. YES
Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 5:32:21 AM
2 up, 2 down
Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 5:49:18 AM
(but ps3 got benefit, it load faster :D)"
you answered your own question.
it is known that a 1x and even a 2x Blu-Ray drive is slower than 12x DVD drive (what the 360 has)... a 3x is faster than the DVD's min, but slower than it's max (which is where devs put major data). a 4x or higher will beat the DVD drive.
supposedly, the PS3 has a 2x drive... meaning it matches the xbox's minimum speed... but the xbox can "runaway" with it when you get to the faster/outer part of the disc.
what does all this mean? well, it means the Xbox has better streaming ability (assuming the PS3 only has a 2x BR drive).
unfortunately, the dvd drive in my 360 is louder than my PC!!! my PC has 2x 120mm fans and another 5 fans of various sizes, so yeah, it's pretty loud.
2 up, 1 down
ThePoetRazel
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 6:02:04 AM
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I can understand the frustration when people see their HDD free space rapidly disappearing, but sometimes there's a price to pay for things as good as these games. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Of course, Sony could start thinking about putting larger HDD in the PS3 for those who can't get hold of one to install themselves.
2 up, 2 down
Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 6:09:55 AM
i'm betting it's because of the "slow" BR drive that MGS4 needs mini-installs on to the HDD... which currently can transfer at least twice as fast (and then some!).
Last edited by Goobers on 7/4/2008 6:14:12 AM
2 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 12:21:13 PM
1 up, 2 down
Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:01:43 PM
Tatsujin, i agree there are ways around the BR speed... and to be frank, i'm fine with the install. i have no quams about upgrading a HDD. i have a 320 GB, 500GB and 1TB drives in my PC. though i expect the backup/restore would bother me more.
the reality is... (like someone else said) most people are "ignorant"... i was going to continue this train of thought... but i realized... nope, that's about it.
there are people that say... "i'll take the loading screens over 5 min installs"... BS.
i'll take the 5 min install.. cause you only do it ONCE (in the case of MGS4, once per ACT). you can quit the game 100 times and continue 100 times, so long as you don't leave the ACT... you won't suffer more installs or any loading screens.
but if you take the loading screens... you have to suffer it multiple times PER ACT... multiply that by however many times you play that ACT even if you don't leave the ACT.
in their minds... all it is, is "instant gratification"... they get to play it sooner after they buy it... but "suffer" later. i'd rather take a little time in the beginning and go smoother overall.
Last edited by Goobers on 7/4/2008 2:03:33 PM
1 up, 2 down
Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:31:08 PM
Reversing that statement, it would also be fair to say that your gratification is also instant because you're not dealing with a loading screen, and the frustrations of a few seconds here and there. I have no problems with the time to take installs, I could really care less about that. The fact is, I spent $600 for a 80gb PS3, with a harddrive that is too small for the seemingly growing requirements of the system. A problem they never factored in. With that in mind, why should I have to pay for a larger harddrive because Sony failed to install a reasonable harddrive to meet the quickly growing demands of the PS3 HDD. Especially when it has been already proven with various games installed are not absolutely needed. They might help, but they are far from being a must. This has NOTHING to do with waiting a few minutes to install.
Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 2:33:17 PM
1 up, 0 down
Goobers
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 3:13:57 PM
it's not the same thing.
it's an EARNED gratification. it's true that not having to deal with those things is A gratification... it's not "instant" because time was already taken out and dealt with... thereby negating the "instant." you can't arbitraily compare small sections of time...
let's take a look... let's say you get 5 minutes of install before the ACT starts and you get 5 hours of game play. but without the install, you get something like 1 minute loading with every 1 hour gameplay.
after 5 hours, it's the same, you waited 5 minutes overall. but let's say you don't leave the ACT and basically restart it... well, now there's no install, since it's already there. whereas on the "no-install" gameplay, you still deal with 1 minute load screen per 1 hour.
but on the other hand... let's say you could completed this ACT in less than 5 hours... something like 4 hours, and you played in such a way that you somehow still get 1 minute loading screen per 1 hour... you now only "suffer" a total of 4 minutes of loading screen, where as the install was still 5 mintues. HOWEVER, in reality, most games aren't based on time, but progression or distance (if you have to load another zone)... then it makes little difference.
what about games where you have a HUGE map... and the install shortens the load time compared to non-installs... well, initally, you "waste" more with the install if you don't move far enough to trigger load screens... but the more you do... the more the install starts to save.
it's like rechargeable batteries... they start off costing more than regular batteries... and they do cost some to recharge (electric bill)... and they usually HAVE to be charged up before the first use too. but use them enough, and it becomes "cheaper" than constantly buying regular batteries.
as for the drive... yes, i agree it would've been nice for the PS3 to get a larger drive... but who's paying for it? would you rather spend $700 dollars for a PS3 with a larger HDD? neither $ony or M$ would include a larger drive without passing the cost (and then some) to the end user.
Last edited by Goobers on 7/4/2008 3:15:31 PM
0 up, 1 down
Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 7:55:00 PM
Considering the primary solution you all seem to offer is add a bigger harddrive, guess what? It's now a $700 PS3.
So again, I state my point... Installs should be "optional" (not mandatory, or completely removed) thus making you happy for faster loading times, me happy for not having to suck up the 80gb when that's being done on it's own from downloaded content.
Last edited by Zapix on 7/4/2008 7:57:21 PM
2 up, 1 down
krazzymoose
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 6:38:05 AM
Reply
5 up, 1 down
danr
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 7:04:08 AM
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If you can afford to buy loads of games that will fill up the hard drive, you can afford to buy a bigger hard drive.
I have a 200 gig HDD, although I do only have 3 games...
But I use my ps3 for music mainly, so its getting pretty full.
But the point is that its really not worth getting rid of the installations. Simple.
2 up, 1 down
krazzymoose
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 7:28:49 AM
Last edited by krazzymoose on 7/4/2008 7:29:05 AM
2 up, 1 down
BlinkBoy
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 8:55:22 AM
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But of course Sony should release PS3s with bigger HDDs in the future.
Plus It won't be long before S-ATA 2.5" 500 GB HDDs will be the normal thing to have in laptops etc. Then I will upgrade again most likely.
1 up, 1 down
shindelion
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 9:55:31 AM
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1 up, 0 down
Bugzbunny109
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 10:13:17 AM
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2 up, 0 down
Qubex
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 10:59:49 AM
Q!
"aLL RoAdS LeAd ToO HoMe"
Last edited by Qubex on 7/4/2008 11:00:35 AM
1 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 10:51:18 AM
Reply
3 up, 2 down
Zapix
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:43:40 PM
And since when did anyone here mention the time it takes it install? Oh, right... NEVER! It's about the limitations of the harddrive SONY puts in THEIR system. As BlinkBoy said, 'Sony should release PS3s with bigger HDDs in the future.' To not do so will only continue to provoke THIS arguement.
I think most people here who understand this arguement (which obviously you do not, and resort to name calling and hostile slandering) would agree with me when I say... "Why should I have to pay for for a bigger harddrive for a system Sony built, sells for a high price, and doesn't meet the demands of the developers."
2 up, 2 down
orangpelupa
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 11:11:52 AM
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So there no solution for this. Mandatory install will keep going on ps3 games.
Its hardware limitation, devs can do nothing.
But it will be good if they (game devs) make the instalation smaller. 5GB for one game is crazy.
Altough its still a lot smaller than PC :D
Pc GRID need 12.5GB :p
But ps3 is a GAMING CONSOLE, not pc. . . .
I miss the time when game is just plug and play (snes,nes,ps1,ps2)
3 up, 1 down
Tatsujin
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 12:17:44 PM
0 up, 4 down
ChOzInWuN
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:04:48 PM
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"This petition is stupid. Who ever made it is stupid. Who ever agreed with it is stupid."
Come on man whats the problem? After reading that the only one that sounds stupid is the author....btw whoever is one word. I seem to remember you running your mouth in the same way when people finally got irritated with EA and began the process of bringing a lawsuit. Obviously installing a seperate HD is a real solution but believe it or not, not everyone knows how to do that..some people have careers to concentrate on not computer technology. You don't need to constantly hate, you may live longer by not doing so.
2 up, 1 down
aaronisbla
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 2:23:07 PM
Reply
1 up, 2 down
ThePoetRazel
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 3:04:25 PM
Reply
3 up, 1 down
ChOzInWuN
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 9:43:01 PM
Reply
3 up, 1 down
Bugzbunny109
Saturday, July 05, 2008 @ 9:58:28 AM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
Gabriel013
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 2:03:14 AM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
cheng
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 3:08:07 PM
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1 up, 0 down
SilverSenshi
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 6:00:46 PM
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1 up, 0 down
Noodles187
Monday, July 07, 2008 @ 9:49:50 PM
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1) Purchase and install a bigger HDD. It's fast, effective, and cheap, depending on how much space you need. If you can't afford one, then how can you afford a $600 system and games at $60 a piece?(mind you I'm not complaining about the prices)
2) Delete the Installation Data from your PS3. It's that simple. If you have an old game that's taking up space, deleted the Data, but keep your saved game. The Data is in a little folder above all of your demos. I don't know why no has brought that up.
I personally believe that is is all pretty silly. If people aren't happy with something that lets them play games faster and easier, then I don't think they deserve to have a PS3. It sounds a little harsh, but why did they buy it if they're just going to complain about its hardware. People put lots of effort into these games and systems, and I think that we should all be a little more grateful. Well, that's my 2 cents for the day.
1 up, 0 down
PaiNT_kinG
Tuesday, July 08, 2008 @ 4:27:06 AM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
desserts
Reply
Friday, July 04, 2008 @ 1:00:17 AM
I think the petition should be against Sony installing such a tiny 40Gb disk in the latest model. I was worried my disk wouldn't be big enough when I bought the original 60Gb unit.
My only advice to people is regularly delete game installs. If you need more than 2 or 3 on the system at once upgrade your disk! £35 will buy you 160Gb.
Chris