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Xbox 360 Red Ring Of Death: Consumers Need To Be Upset

First of all, I'm well aware that we're a PlayStation-oriented site (not a fansite or blog, for the record), but this doesn't mean we're not gamers like everyone else. I own both the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360 as does most everyone else I know at this point. However, regardless of the platform, I'm not understanding something: the catastrophe that is the "Red Ring of Death" system failure - yeah, you heard me; catastrophe - continues to run rampant, and as far as I can tell, Microsoft hasn't done anything to fix the problem. They hide behind this, "oh, it's just a flaw that can happen...there's nothing we can do about it." Translation- "We want all of you to buy multiple 360s."

Why? Why aren't more consumers absolutely livid about this? Over the past few years, I've paid close attention to this ongoing saga, and at one point, the RRoD issue caused defective rates to jump to over 30%. That's 1/3, people. One out of every three 360s sold have failed or will fail; that's what that number means. Since then, retailers have reported a decreasing number of defective returns, but it certainly hasn't decreased enough to be respectable. The latest results are all over the place, but the bigger retailers will still estimate a sold : returned defective ratio of anywhere between 10 and 25%. Now, during the worst times, Microsoft insisted it was no more than 3-5%, which is a flat-out lie, and nobody seemed to care. Then they say there's nothing they can do about it, and still, everyone stays quiet. What the hell is going on here?! Is this the biggest, most elaborate mind-wash in the history of electronics?

It would be one thing if the 360's competitors had similar issues, but both the Wii and PS3 are remarkably reliable, with retailer defective ratios always hovering around 1-3%. That's acceptable. That's expected. Nobody I know who owns a Wii has ever had it fail, and nobody I know who owns a PS3 has ever had it fail. The 360 tally? Well, one friend is currently on his third. Another is only on his second, but he just bought his first back in March. A third friend is on his fourth 360 in two years, and another acquaintance of mine has simply given up after his fourth bit the dust. This is insane. Look, I have the 360 for the same reasons others have it; games like Gears of War 1 and 2, Halo 3 and Fable II are too good to pass up, and I've immensely enjoyed other titles like Lost Odyssey, Beautiful Katamari, and I'm looking forward to Left 4 Dead. While I firmly believe the PS3 outstripped the 360 in 2008 (MGS4, LBP, and R2 is an unbeatable exclusive trio), the software is there for the 360.

But can that be the only reason? Is it somehow less frustrating for other people when their system fails? Because it would piss me right off, and it has in the past. We all pay a substantial sum of money for our entertainment, and the 360 is - and I'm not going to sugarcoat this - a horrendously unreliable machine, and it's an utter embarrassment as far as I'm concerned. It wouldn't matter if it were a blender or a camera; when something has such a disastrous defective rate, it is completely unacceptable and consumers need to punish the company responsible for the product. And yet, this isn't happening. Well, the PS3 has been catching up quite rapidly as of late, but that's probably due more to the aforementioned exclusives, Blu-Ray, enhanced Network and Store, and lower price. It probably has less to do with the RRoD issue on the 360, and this just bugs the crap out of me. Yes, the 360 gets a lot less play time for me, but a lot of that is because I'm just worried it'll fail if I even look at the thing.

Everywhere I go, I hear about another failed 360. It could be my cousin's house where my uncle has brought the 360 to the post office three times already, or it could be down at GameStop, where yet another 360 with the three flashing red lights is sitting in the promotional display. Yeah, that's one hell of a promotion. But obviously, Microsoft doesn't care, and that's because they clearly have nothing to worry about. And they won't have anything to worry about unless consumers smarten up and execute their right to say, "ah, no, I don't want to be stolen from." The 360 is a fine gaming machine, and I'm not going to deny that. But someone somewhere needs to force Microsoft to fix this. And if you honestly believe they can't, you really are a lost cause.

P.S. Concerning 360 worldwide sales, I'm just wondering...how many of those are "new" buyers whose warranty ran out and had to buy a new one? I mean, I'm just curious.

11/20/2008 Ben Dutka

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Comments (154 posts)

Ed_Wayne
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 10:43:24 PM
Reply

I would bet that around 2 million are re-buys. I'm no fanboy either so don't yell at me.

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wasim
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:22:38 AM

well for MS console war is over in 09 anyway

even at 1/3 the price of ps3 x360 gets outsold by it all around the world except USA (because of recession obviously)

09 sees PS3 flex its muscle with MAG, KZ2 , HR and GOW3.

On the other hand even x360's best game Gears 2 look like a wii game vs Uncharted

There will be hues and cries , court cases against Microsoft and negative articles all around the world when 2m warantees run out

MS should have never entered the console war. They are not only defeated but their image has been tarnished because of RROD

February sees KZ2 and with RROD outcries that might be the last month of relevance for x360 in console war

RIP X360

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AntDC
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:48:45 AM

@ wasim "because of recession obviously"

Dude, the US of A isn't the only country in the world going through a recession at the moment. That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. And I'm pretty sure Ben did an article recently saying how the recession wasn't effecting gaming sales.

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FLYING_APE
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:52:44 AM

ytmman i fink ur da fanboi mate gtfo.
ps3 will catch up because it will have more game what does xbox 360 have lined up for 2009
halo wars halo exspansion pack, ninja blade, alan wake. LOL LOL LOL... well im gettin halo exspansion pack but the rest is LOL LOL LOL oh yeah LOLOLOL

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MirrorSoul
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 10:48:13 PM
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You hit exactly what i though. Microsoft has been masking the problems by sayin "We have this premium service and Halo and Gears"...SOFTWARE IS NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE UP A BROKEN CONSOLE TO THE CONSUMER!!! I ran through 2 360's befor giving up and buying my Ps3 last May. I want to buy a 360 i really do for GEARS but im toscared of having it fora long tim...the warranty runs out...and im stuck with a broke system. I yelled at Sony earlier this year to get thier SH!T TOGETHER, and look how well there doing now lol. MICROSOFT EVEN THOUGH U ARE MY FAV CONSOLES COMPETITION..GET YOU SH!T TOGETHER FOR THE CONSUMERS SAKE!!!

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Sops
Saturday, November 22, 2008 @ 8:35:32 AM

not to be a fanboy or anything but whoever said gears looks like a wii game. W?E lol. But yea i had xbox 360 i sent it in the first time for rrod and i got it back. I think a new system. 4 months later. BOOM rrod. I was like wtf. So i send it in again. I get it back 3 days later. WTF i got hacked. Yea someone hacked into my account and stole my account. I was so fing pissed i went out and bought a ps3. But now im buying another 360 cuz theres just too many exclusives i want to play. RROD is a HUGE problem witch needs to be fixed in 2009 if they dont microsoft is probablly going to be in a lot of hurt. Its funny though. Even during this recession i think the only part of the economy thats doing well is the gaming section lol

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ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 10:53:59 PM
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I mooch off of my best friend's X360. I still refuse to buy one because I HATE dealing with defective products. The hassle alone annoys the hell out of me. There have been so many tempting moments where I thought about just snagging an X360, but I thought against it and said 'F-it, it'll break.' The consoles being sold today STILL break, it makes me shudder.

You know, I hope I don't jinx anything...but my PS3s run for HOURS and HOURS a day for the past 2+ years now. They're still every bit as quiet and co-operative as they were day one. My retail PS3 unit has been on since 7 or 8PM now.

What a trooper.

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keaton
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:07:42 PM

yeah i'm with you arnold, i've had my ps3 within a month of it first coming out and my brother leaves it on for weeks at a time and it is still running smooth as ever... well that is until they came out with that update a month or so ago that shuts the console off after a designated time period.

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:29:59 AM

Ive been there with my eye on the Great White Hype. But havent touched it for the same reasons...
Great points BEN! We are all GAMERS first, a label shouldn't be of concern for us. Bad business practices have be associated with M$. I dont even like their bread-n-butter thats why I have an Apple.

No other industry would hold a refuge for such a disaster. Imagine if your CAR was that reliable! C'mon YOU can't go into work 1/2 the time or give 1/2 the effort. Our Xbox brethren should be PISSED!!!

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 11/21/2008 1:31:06 AM

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Scarecrow
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:56:28 AM

What I don't understand is those who have gone through 3 or 4 360s and still feel fine in that situation...

Seriously, the ps2 was defective for abou a year or so(2001-2002), but after that the problem with ps2s was really over. Starting from like 2002. But even if there were still some ps2s braking down the cases were not widespread like it is with the 360.

If you have a 360 you're guaranteed to have a RROD.

Man, I could not imagine playing a game like LittleBigPlanet(creating my level) and the damn thing shutting off lol....

Not only that, but rpgs....

Racing games...

Now I know why the 360 costs as little as a Nintendo DS...

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bonifidehustla
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:25:28 AM

my ps2 was a trooper i had mines back in 2000 finally sold it in 2008 had it for 8 years the old big ugly one even tho i always played bootleg games lol but when i had final fantasy 10 i use to leave the game on for weeks because i didnt want 2 save sometimes

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Papa Burgundy
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 10:55:26 PM
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I'm dead serious when i say this, im on my sixth 360, i've had many different problems including the red ring and the fans breaking. I've only had 1 ps3 and i love the fact that it's so reliable. I'm so mad that microsoft put out such a faulty system.

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Dingodial
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:31:23 PM

If that happened to me then I would stop buying xbox 360 after the 1st one got bricked :)

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WaR_HaWk
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 10:57:11 PM
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i hope that my console never dies, cause right now i cant afford a new one.
Off Topic: New Sony commercials are awesome.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 10:57:26 PM
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The P.S. sums it up, the gap between PS3 and 360 sales would be much closer if we factored in "rebuyers" whose warranty finally ran out or they got sick of repairing their old one. Hell the gap my close completely.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 11/20/2008 11:02:17 PM

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ShiningPhantasy
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:08:08 PM
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I wouldn't buy any product with a one-third failure rate even if it were being offered for half-price. Odd too, as the original Xbox--while having some questionable design decisions--was a much more reliable console.

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PSN _HAITIAN_JB
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:13:09 PM
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I tried to get a 360 so many time but just to scared to get one because if i do i wouldn't turn it off just like my ps3 never turn it off play games movies musics do all that the only time its off its when i had to reset when socom frozen on me theres alot of 360 game out there that i want to play GOW 1&2777 `

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PSN _HAITIAN_JB
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:15:07 PM
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Wow i did not post that many

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caddillac
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:15:17 PM
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Yeah my 360 red ringed on me after a little over a year and I sold it as soon as it came back from being repaired. Used the money to get a PS3 and haven't been disappointed since. It just doesn't make any sense.

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Aftab
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:24:57 PM
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Problem comes down to mentality: Short-sightedness. The statistically average customer, who accounts for the ebbing majority of gamers not including wii owners or pc gamers, is a "young adult" who does not see more than a day or one payment period at most into his future. As long as he's having his fun at that moment, and he's hearing the curses of his online buddies to confirm it, and his online membership is paid for that month, he's having so much fun that he does not care if a few buddies's boxes are red-ringing. The possiblity of his red ringing does not cross his self-centered mind, until it happens. And if it does happen, he's still cool to himself, cause it's happened to rest of them. And rather than accepting his blunder and learning from it, he rather believes his past was worth it, because he can't part with the "horde", the bandwagon, the statis quo...he needs them to affirm his self and his fun. Why don't they speak out and complain. Because there are just too many of them who won't. So MS capitalizes on that an offers a warranty policy that is marketable enough to keep the troubled and slightly more sensible minority quiet.

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Arvis
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 11:47:09 AM

Great post...

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Kiengo
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:27:18 PM
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From what I've heard, the 360's started red-ringing because Microsoft went cheap and tried to make their own graphics chip instead of enlisting Nvidia or ATI to do it. Ouch. I don't know if it's still a problem though.

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Crono
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:49:17 PM

The system's design was flawed from the get-go: and according to that recent article which surfaced about the RROD; Microsoft knew it. Their rush to beat Sony to the market meant that they were willing to bury their heads in the sand and cross their fingers it never got too out of hand. That failed tremendously on an objective level; but owing to unexpected loyalty from consumers it's never gotten absolutely disastrous for sales etc. They could have waited it out and launched a working product but they clearly didn't want to go toe-to-toe with the PS3 like the Wii did. Without the unexpected luck (on their part) of the Blu-Ray related delay of Sony's system, I'd estimate the Xbox would be in a much, much worse position than it is now.

Last edited by Crono on 11/20/2008 11:49:37 PM

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pearlcam
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:28:26 PM
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I'll bet that Microsoft has more people who upgrade to the elite than anything. I got the RRoD twice. What a piece of crap. I've never been more pissed than that. I was equally pissed as when Sony put the Hidden spyware on peoples computer. I have both machines and I play the 360 10 times more. Why do a lot of ps3 games put so much information on the hard drive. thats why I buy the games for xbox. Microsoft is in the screw you business too, Hey look at this new live experience, you get to put the games on the har drive now... oh most of you will need to upgrade to the 60 gb starter pack for 100 bucks or buy the 120 gb hard drive.

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Jed
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:32:54 PM
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Hey BEN,

I have been working at gamestop for about 6 months now and I would say at least half of the 360s we sell are to people that had a system that crapped out. They come in and say "I want the 360 arcade". So I tell them about hard drives, and they say that they have a hard drive but their system crapped out.

It happens almost daily, that is why I believe the 360s sales numbers are misleading. I have talked to dozens of people that say they have had multipule 360s, and their best friend has had several 360s.

I feel the same way you do, I have a 360 for the exclusives, but I buy all the multiplatform games for ps3. I dont want my halo 360 to melt.

I just saw antoher 360 commercial right now.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:51:05 AM

Now why does that not surprise me? The GameStops near me estimate it's like 50%, too.

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DIsmael85
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:37:03 AM

Haha this is so damn true. That's pretty much why I see the same customers over and over. It's almost daily how many people come in saying that their system gave them the red light. Oh well. I just recently got one, met some new friends and made some new friends over it, so I have the best of both.

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Orvisman
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:56:39 AM

@Jed,

I believe their is some truth in what you write. I'm with you on the multiplat games, too.

That said, the 360 version of multiplat games does outsell the PS3 version most of the time here in the U.S. So, there are obviously more 360s than PS3s out there right now.

@ Ben,

Are you trying to bring in the trolls and flamers? ;)

Also, I know this is off topic sorry, do you know why the PS3 version of DAH: Path To Furon has been delisted at GameStop and other sites? Has it been cancelled?

Last edited by Orvisman on 11/21/2008 9:58:30 AM

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shindelion
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:18:06 AM

One of my friend got his "repaired" 4 times. I told him he could have gotten a ps3 a wii and a TV with that money spent. Also heard stories that the 360 that are so called "new" are the same ones that they repaid. I'm not hating i just wish they would treat these people with respect.

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NiteKrawler
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 11:57:15 PM

I don't understand why Xbox fanboys insist on the "PS3 is sooo overpriced" argument but then go and buy like 3 different 360's because they crap out so much. What's really more expensive in the long run? With the 360's breaking all the time and paying for Live and the extra cooling system, and the Wii coming out with a new useless Wii-mote attachment for every single game in the universe, the PS3 is damn cheap in my opinion. I bought the PS3 which came with one controller, my girlfriend bought me one more controller. That's it, the system and controller. (Games too of course.) 360 really needs some more good exclusives I think.

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Tatsujin
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:33:39 PM
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Well, people will never learn. SO many of my friends get RRoD.. and when I mean so many, I mean ALL of them that owned a 360 have complained to me about how they got the RRoD at one point, and nearl 70% of them bought 2 or more 360's because of the RRoD issue. Most of them now are switching over to PS3 just for the fact that theyve spent over $600 on the 360 machines when they could have just bought a system that gives much more for the dollar. And it took them $600 to realize that.. lol

Im working on a survy for gamers at school that revolves around this problem.

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Crono
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:42:21 PM
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I agree whole-heartedly with Aftab on this. It's all down to the mentality of the consumer, who become attached to the 'community' and the idea that the RROD is rather innocently part & parcel of owning the product. If it were any other consumer product, with a 30%+ failure rate it would have been put to the guillotine ages ago. It tends to be the older, dare I say more mature consumer; who learns from the very first failure. Of course the extended warranty at the cost of billions of dollars to Microsoft does its job of keeping most victims on board - and actually my PS3's optical drive failed within the first few months of purchase, but with it being covered and with the knowledge of the relative rarity of the problem I didn't entertain the thought of selling the replacement unit.

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BigBoss4ever
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:36:54 AM

your name will soon resonate with the new re-release Chrono Trigger on DS. IMO, CT is probably the greatest RPG of all time, a standard for all.

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Crono
Tuesday, November 25, 2008 @ 4:13:47 PM

Hell yes, it's probably still my favourite game of all time (even though I'm not really an RPG fan anymore). I was a bit annoyed to hear the DS game was a concrete port, they could have taken a *few* liberties with the visuals/sfx..

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AceTatsujin
Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 11:46:07 PM
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let microsoft keep adding their numbers, Sony cares less because they know they'll pass them eventually, and I can tell you 2009 is gonna be a big dump over MS's forehead. They screwed up the 360.

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Game
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:08:43 AM
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I know some people taht work at gamestop and one of them sad hes on his 3rd one and his friend is on his 5th. I don't see why people would keep on buying something that breaks so much.Halo and GOW isn't that good. I had two then i gave up. thats to much wasted money.

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LHomie
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:09:53 AM
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Just like Arnold, I mooch off my friend's 360. You can't pass up Gears or Halo, but I still refuse to buy such a failing product. I can't see why 360 owners aren't more infuriated at such a problem.

I'll stick with my 60gb PS3 that's still holding strong.

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Geobaldi
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:23:14 AM
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Everytime I hear about a 360 crashing and the owner just rushing out to get another, all I can do is just laugh. Why people continue to experience this over and over again is beyond me. Any other product in the market that has this many problems is usually pulled from the market. Why is the 360 allowed to remain there and steal so much money from consumers? I never have been an XBOX fan and probably never will. And with their systems crashing all the time, I not likely to give them the opportunity to win me over. I'll just wait for the PS3 and PC versions of their games if there is one I really want to play.

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:27:21 AM
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Did anyone here know that some of the mechanical developers told Microsoft back before the 360 launch that the machine was unstable and not ready and the reply to these worries was and I quote "We understand that there are some bugs to work out, but strategically launching a year before the competition will offset any foreseeable costs of said defects." One of the devs in question quit a year after launch because he was tired of watching the product he worked on break. At the factory only 1 out of 6 boxes worked of the line, and I am not exaggerating that number one bit. I know the dev that quit personally. That to me is a shi**y way to treat your customers.

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HUSO
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:50:46 AM

i believe MS is quite used to doing this. take Windows for an example. just coz they have a monopoly on the market they think they can sell a faulty product. however they gotta realize that they haven't got a monopoly on the gaming market yet.

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Arvis
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 11:56:32 AM

Coverton, where the heck do you live that you know all these insider in the game industry personally?

-Arvis

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:00:41 PM

I live in California. I used to live in the bay area and I worked in gamestop and am a software developer. (Not a game software developer don't yell at me). So being in that area and in that line of work you get to know a lot of inside people which is cool in a way and it sucks. I now live in northern Cali and I know a pig farmer. No kidding he raises pigs and thats all. Never knew such a thing existed.

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Arvis
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:11:24 PM

*sigh*

Your life is so much more interesting than mine...

-Arvis

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:38:02 PM

With interest comes headaches. Sometimes I wish I had enough time to take a vacation and just go camping or something with friends and family.

Though I do have enough free time sitting here at my desk to surf this site. I guess I can't be too unhappy leeching money from work to do that.

Last edited by coverton341 on 11/21/2008 3:39:58 PM

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BigBoss4ever
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:34:11 AM
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It made me more worried about my 360, so far I only had Lost Odyssey and Infinite Undiscovery, and I used it very carefully and exclusively for 360 only titles. I am just thinking to get my 3rd one, the last remnant, but seems this article helped me make my decision--I will wait for the PS3 version so it will do less harm to the 360 by not using it, for Crist sake.

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infekt
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:41:13 AM
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People without soul have no free will.. And behind each stolen soul theres Microsoft leaching away. Woh there. I know you all are thinking it! Come on. Admit it. :) And yes, I AM a proud owner of a RROD machine. I call it my "kitty-litter box" now.

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HUSO
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:48:22 AM
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i guess i'm in the minority of ppl whose PS3 failed on them 2 weeks after i got it. Failure of the laser unit apparently. and funny thing is i have a cousin who faced the same problem. we must have received our consoles from a faulty batch. or mebbe i'm just the unlucky guy around whom sony stuff malfunction (my ps2, ps3, DSC-h9 camera, Bravia 52" LCD TV) <sniff>

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:05:11 AM

Jeez man sounds like you have had a bad run. But let me ask have you been through three or four PS3's yet? If so buy a damn Wii! LOL J/K

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HUSO
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:19:11 AM

nope fortunately not 3 - 4, and i can understand a rare laser unit being faulty :) and lets hope it stays that way. but the TV malfunction was a major bummer. working on getting it replaced now. and no thank you, the wii is not for me, i get enuf physical exercise as it is :D although my aunt bought one thinking it'll help her lose weight :D

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Geobaldi
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:25:09 AM

You're not the only one who has had problems. I have two PS2s (1st gen, and the slim one)and both of them have the same laser problem. They can play CDs, regular PS1 and PS2 games, and regular DVDs. But any of the gold colored DVDs they will not play. So far no problem with my 60gb PS3 (knock on wood).

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Frenchy17
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:15:53 AM
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I dont know if this is true or not, but I heard a lot of xbox 360s are red ringing due to the new live experience. Also heard that they conveniently released the new xbox live a week after a generation of xbox360s warranties ran out. Convenient huh?

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MetalHead09
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:22:51 AM
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wow so many times im tempted to buy a 360 but then i hear stuff like this and reasure myself that its not worth it.

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wasim
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:23:59 AM
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Console war is finished for x360

KZ2 would kill x360 anyway so good bye MS

nice knowing thee

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FLYING_APE
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:40:43 AM

Your always defending xbox every post. You don't come here aswell.

providing killzone 2 has a big marketing campaign it will sell alot maybe 6-8 million in the first year. It a really good game graphics, atomsphere, animation, ai, destructibal realistic environments and space nazi's.

You can't tell your elbow from your a**

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AceTatsujin
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:28:51 AM
Reply

yup, the new xbox experience is killing alot of 360 machines and its getting really hot now. they're trying to hide it, but their employees are speaking.

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Jed
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:19:51 PM

I hadn't heard that yet. I just know the "new xbox experience" really sucks. And you CAN'T go back to the old dashboard, like they said we would be able to.

This is really funny, I got it from FAQ on the 360 website.

[Q Is the Update optional? Can I keep my old interface if I want to?


A Why would you want to? The New Xbox Experience is the same experience you had before and so much more! As a matter of fact, the blades that people have come to know and love are integrated directly in to the guide button so that every aspect of the New Xbox Experience is always only one button click away. The New Xbox Experience is built with community as its foundation and requires everyone to upgrade.]

Last edited by Jed on 11/21/2008 10:20:16 PM

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ThePoetRazel
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:58:06 AM
Reply

I wonder if the return rate drop is due to the problem dying a little or is it due to a growing feeling of helplessness from 360 owners who are simply giving up?
I've wanted to buy a 360 since i got my PS3 (a second choice console but still a choice), but i refuse to throw away my money on a defective machine. Like you, i wish more people would get a little up-in-arms over this.
It's time everyone refused to buy a 360 console or game or live subscription until an independent study shows the problem reduced to acceptable levels. Maybe then i can finally buy a 360 without throwing away money.

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ronnie
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:10:38 AM
Reply

Glad I own a PS3. Bought a new HD (40 was too less) of 320 GB and put it in (so easy). When I read what people tell about the exclusives on Xbox, I look at my collection so far : LBP, Metal Gear 4, Ratchet & Clank, Uncharted, Resistance 2, Buzz. My PS3 never failed since I bought it. It's nice watching Little Britain USA on the PS3 and after that playing a quick level of Little Big Planet (BEST game of 2008). In 2009 the Sony market will grow (GT5, Heavy Rain, God of War 3, Ratchet & Clank sequel, INfamous etc.)

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Aftab
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:20:52 PM

Haha, bleck. That was funny! But actually, I'm a software developer. What do you do?

Last edited by Aftab on 11/21/2008 10:22:57 PM

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aaronisbla
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:20:37 AM

People make mistakes, chill with the name calling. Perhaps i got confused with you saying they are buying their 3rd or 4th systems. Like i said, when people mention being on the 3rd or 4th system, it isn't because they are buying replacements, its because those replacements are given to them by MS.

The way you mentioned it, you made it sound as if they are buying a new system that can have the same faulty problems for the 3rd time ( which isn't too smart, no matter how good the games are ). I don't know too many people with money to burn that way just to replace a system that broke with another one that can be just as faulty.

Regardless, i agree with huso on this one.


Last edited by aaronisbla on 11/21/2008 6:30:05 AM

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Aftab
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 8:58:43 AM

@Rocketman/pushman/ytmman's back. And he will be banned, again. He calls others ignorant but he does not seem to be picking up a very simple pattern...

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CH1N00K
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:04:50 AM

Do they buy a third or fourth system because they love the system? or do they buy because they think, "I've already got all this money invested in my x-box games. If I buy a PS3 I can't play those games anymore."

That's what Microsoft is betting on and so far it's paying off. I have a friend who has taken an X-box back and gotten a new one 5 times! He had the Best Buy Warranty, so they gave him a new one off the shelf each time he took the others back. Finally he had enough. He traded in all of his games at EB games for a PS3. Because of the trade in value of his games, he got a sweet deal on a PS3. Now he's wondering why he had the X-bot in the first place. I know this is only a personal opinion of one gamer but makes you wonder how many other people are in the same boat.

It's also interesting to see how great Microsofts adds are and how much advertising they do, yet there's very few people who know that the X-Box has a 3 year warranty on it now. M$ seems to be making a killing off of the ignorance of their buyers. (AND I'm not saying that all x-box buyers are ignorant. There's just a lot of people out there who don't even know about Forums and websites with this info or even ask in a store for that matter. They just buy a product and when it breaks, they just assume there is nothing they can do about it. Or think it's too much hassle to do something about it)

As for why they haven't fixed the RROD problem yet, my guess would be because they're busy developing a new system to take on the PS3. Sony has said they're going to get 10 years out of their system. X-Box is planning to release a new one in a couple of years. Why fix the problem on something that isn't going to be around long enough to matter?

The future will be an interesting on me thinks...

Last edited by CH1N00K on 11/21/2008 9:10:56 AM

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:41:34 AM

The "I am not giving up my library of games to buy a PS3 and start all over" defense rings true. My friend is one of these people and that was the exact reason for not buying a PS3. He said he invested too much money in the 360 because he bought it on release day and bought a crap ton of games. Then it RRoDed and he just went out and bought a core. then it happened again and he bought another core. Then the arcade. In between those he got one or two from M$ but said he didn't like the wait of 3-5 weeks. (which is standard here in our area of Cali). He wont buy the PS3 because he doesn't want to lose his library of games and have to buy them all over again. He feels the cost of new systems outweighs the cost of a new system and a new library.

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Aftab
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:46:15 AM

To CH1N00K: Very true. When I was contacting people over craig's list to buy a used 360, not one person had a clue about the warranty...not knowing whether you need proof of purchase or not, how long the warranty is good for, etc...

Last edited by Aftab on 11/21/2008 9:47:06 AM

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spomas
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:50:13 AM
Reply

i have my xbox 360 since early 2007, more than a year now.

I got few times of RROD but manage to apply a "temporary" fix and able to play any new titles so far.

Yeah, I hate to say that, I am forced to "support" xbox 360 because of the games.

Still remember the first time i got RROD. I was playing a game, and suddenly it went freezed. I thought it was due to the game problem. I went to exchange my game and it worked fine again. But, the next day, it freezed again.

After doing many research on the internet, i come to know a new term, "Red Rings of Death" or "3 Red Lights"...

I managed to find a "temporary" fix for this RROD issue. After the fix, I can play it for a month or two, sometime up to 3 months, but the RROD will com back again eventually. I have been applying the "temporary" fix for few times already. This fix had trained me to a "professional xbox 360 opener". I can now easily open my xbox 360 within a minute. (I know, this is not something I should proud of.) LOL...

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ImBack
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:09:34 AM
Reply

i sent my xbox to microsoft and they fixed it.. my friend did the same, free of charge by the way. i exchanged my xbox for a psp a year ago though. sony is just better.

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Aftab
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:14:39 AM

If you were capable of an apology, perhaps you'd be forgiven. But since you are not, you will be banned, again, not matter how many times you say, "Sony is better".

Last edited by Aftab on 11/21/2008 9:17:11 AM

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JaXXX
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:14:43 AM
Reply

Sorry Ben an off topic question:
What game do u suggest to but From COD:WOW, Mirror's Edge, LBP or R2? Since u've played them all but i have no idea...

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JaXXX
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:25:29 AM
Reply

Well i havent got a chance to rent, but i dont get the LBP thing, is it that good how everybody says it is? I thinks ME is too short, maybe i'll get WOW or R2, but the thing is i'm stuck on R1 and i dont want to spoil the story so i guess i am down to LBP or WOW...

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bearbobby
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:42:22 PM

LBP all the way ;)

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sabitrulz
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 4:58:07 AM
Reply

well,my 360 is running perfectly since 2006,but i spend around 800 bucks for it,a pair of winfast fan,120gb hard drive,wifi adapter n lately da lian pc case.But spend only 700 for da ps3 so far[256gb ssd]

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the_importer
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:04:58 AM
Reply

If MS would fix the bloody RROD, I would buy an Elite cash with 10 games, but until then, they won't get a penny from me. I will not support a console that requires me to sent it out for repair or replacement every 6 months!

Also, not a fansite or blog, lol. Ya right, where's the negative article where SONY lost a lawsuit and had to pay-up 18 millions?

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the_importer
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:52:12 AM

I'm talking about the case of Agere Systems Vs SONY which was settled 4 days ago and no, PSXExtreme did NOT report it even if it's big news, hence why it's a fansite/blog. Who's the idiot now fanboy?

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FLYING_APE
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:42:54 AM

im sorry for calling you a idiot but i'm no fanboy i used to come here and stir up crap bigging up xbox when it's needed.

But your post are all in favour of the xbox your a fanboy. As ben dutka said it just out of order microsoft knew they would brake and still puts it out. fanboy like YOU defend it and just buy an arcade when it brakes.

You just got owned by me

Last edited by FLYING_APE on 11/21/2008 7:44:27 AM

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CH1N00K
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:17:05 AM

Yeah I saw that too. I thought I saw it on here, because this is the main site I visit for playstation news, but it must have been somewhere's else. Here I'll give Ben a hand..lol

"Court orders Sony to pay Agere $18.5m

A US court has ordered Sony to pay USD 18.5 million in compensation to Agere Systems after being found guilty of wilfully violating copyrighted technology on a number of devices.

The jury found that the mylo personal communicator, the PlayStation Portable and the Network Walkman audio players were making use of Agere's patented "wireless local area network apparatus", according to PSP Fanboy.

Sony claimed during the trial that it had the rights to the technologies through deals made with AT&T and Lucent, and even attempted to have seven of the eight patents declared invalid.

While the jury ruled in favour of Agere, it is unclear whether this was the total amount the company had been hoping for, as its original claims demanded compensation not just the profits lost due to Sony's patent infringement but also for damages amounting to three times the lost profits. "

The thing that got me on this was the use of a wireless network adapter....doesn't everyone have one of those now a days? I'll have to look into it a bit more to find out what that's all about. I hate to cut up Sony because I love their products, but didn't they lose like $90 million a few years ago for the dual shock controllers too?

Last edited by CH1N00K on 11/21/2008 9:25:25 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:21:38 AM

Oh yes, an $18 million lawsuit. ...yeah, huge news. If we were talking about a Mom and Pop store down the street; this is SONY, and it was hardly huge news. It also has absolutely nothing to do with this article, or anything related to this article, like customer service and hardware reliability. Now stop talking.

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CH1N00K
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:29:35 AM

LOL, I like Ben's Answer better than mine...Why didn't I think of that?

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the_importer
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:03:11 PM

@FLYING_APE

I must be the worst fanboy ever for not owning the console. Why don't you read carefully before replying and making yourself look like an ass, I wasn't defending the 360 even remotely. I have a Wii, PS3, NDS DC and a couple of PCs. When they fix the bloody problem, I'll buy a 360 but until then, M$ is not seeing 1 cent of my money. I don't favor, I call it as it is, being a fanboy is not being able to find fault in your favorite console/game/IP/company. SONY, Nintendo and M$ have their share of crap with their systems and I'm not at all ashamed to point them out.

@Ben Dutka PSXE
SONY got owned in a lawsuit, that's juicy news. Pretty sure you would have report it if they would have won. Also, you kind of brought it on yourself with you stated "not a fansite or blog" at the beginning of the article.

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bearbobby
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 4:05:03 PM

Dude, it has nothing to do with the PS3 or the current topic of XBOX hardware woes, hence it doesn't belong in this comment section. Sony's a big company, much more than just gaming.

While the lawsuit may pertain to a small bit of technology used in the PSP and some other devices, an $18 million lawsuit is small potatoes for a company of Sony's size and lawsuits of this type in general are not that uncommon.

Ben was merely stating that your post didn't really mesh with what we're talking about here. Just let it be and hold the attitude.

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the_importer
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 5:13:49 PM

@bearbobby

I'm perfectly aware that this is a different topic, the reason I brought it up was to contradict the "not a fansite or blog, for the record" quote.

As for the attitude part, Ben Dutka PSXE has a much harder and sarcastic attitude than I do, so perhaps you should ask him to calm down. Such lack of professionalism is another perfect example with this is more a blog than anything else.

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Jed
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:28:58 PM

Big companies have to deal with lawsuits like this all the time. SONY is a huge global company, everyone is trying to sue them.

It is not "big news" and it has nothing to do with the PS3. If you dont like PSXE, then just go to some shitty fanboy site that just cuts and pastes "big news" from other websites.

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the_importer
Saturday, November 22, 2008 @ 12:49:43 PM

@Jed

Not PS3 related, but it's PSP related. Last time I checked, this site gave PSP news, right? Also, PSXE is probably right under the SONY Defense Force when it comes to fanboyism.

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Sir Shak
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:12:19 AM
Reply

i think this is all because of the excellent marketing that microsoft does for the 360 and its games and the lack of any sony advertising .
many people with a 360 still believe that there are no games on the ps3 to validate its high price.
sony's bad marketing has made sure that the average dumb customer is led to believe that there is no competition to the 360.

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aaronisbla
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:35:12 AM

unfortunate but true, if they had a half way decent marketing plan, it might have been better off.

There was like one minor commercial for MGS4 and it barely played on tv. Same for a lot of games and other services it offers. every commercial you see for the 360, if its Xbox live enabled, you will know. Sony on the other hand seems to think that a free network isn't something to advertise

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Jed
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:30:47 PM

That makes me think of the new apple commercial, where M$ puts all their money into advertising, instead of fixing their product.

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FLYING_APE
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:24:03 AM
Reply

This is one of the better blogs ive read.

the ppl today moan about it but they don't take actions.

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CH1N00K
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:49:33 AM

Careful with calling it a blog...sensitive subject..lol

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whooka
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:44:29 AM
Reply

The PS3 ain't perfect either. Mine got bricked after a firmware update where it couldn't detect any controllers connected to the system, even via USB, and wouldn't proceed to the main menu when powered on, it would just sit there and keep telling me to connect a USB controller while emitting a loud white noise from the tv. It wasn't a matter of resetting the controllers as I did that and also put a new hard drive in to see if that would correct it. Sony did not sound surprised about this issue when I called it in. I will give them credit as far as they replaced it under warranty and paid shipping costs and were pretty quick about the return (2 weeks from the day I called in the problem I had the replacement) however during the time I first had the problem I started going to the forums at playstation.com and discovered there's quite a few instances of people's consoles getting bricked by firmware updates, the bluray reader stops reading blurays, defective bluetooth components, etc. I even saw people who were on their third or fourth replacement. The replacement I got seems to work well and runs cooler then my intial unit so I'm satisfied but I saw enough to realize that Sony's 1% claimed failure rate is prob fixing the numbers in their favor. They did indicate they derive this percentage from cases of consumers who took their consoles back to the place they bought it when it went bad so if you were a person like me who dealt with Sony directly for the replacement you aren't in that 1%.

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CH1N00K
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:37:56 AM

You're right it's not perfect, but as Ben mentioned in the article, you are one of 1-3% who do have a problem. Even if they do pad the numbers, there is no way that they are hiding the same number as what x-box is ignoring. 1-3% is to be expected in any product even 5% would be acceptable. I'm sorry to hear you've had problems with yours, and some people do seem to get a bad run of products. But as the reports show, you are part of a smaller group. But 30%? That's just bad business. And how much you want to bet that they're finding a way to pad that number too? But M$ isn't worried, people are still buying them. Hell, people still bought the Pinto car even after they knew that the gas tanks would explode.

Last edited by CH1N00K on 11/21/2008 10:42:07 AM

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Aftab
Monday, November 24, 2008 @ 12:12:31 AM

Friend, I had that problem. But as it turned it out, for me atleast, the problem wasn't with the system. It was with the controller. I pressed the reset button on the back of the contoller and it would work, but still give me the problem occasionally. When I replaced the controller, I never had the problem, again.

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karneli lll
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:00:05 AM
Reply

When you think about it,there's a chance that there are more working ps3's than there are working 360s.

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Jed
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:32:46 PM

that really makes me wonder. great comment.

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snglbck26
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:25:57 AM
Reply

I agree with you Ben. How does anyone have the patience for such total lack of product quality?

As gamers we already spend a great deal of money with the system, games and peripherals. I can understand sending it back the first time and giving MS the benefit of the doubt that these things will happen but after a second time???? No thanks.

I'd also like to have a 360 for the exclusives but refuse to fork out the dough due to their lack of quality. I just wouldn't put up with it.

Last edited by snglbck26 on 11/21/2008 7:26:56 AM

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cegmp
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:54:18 AM
Reply

Very good point Ben! I have been wondering and quietly observing this scenario for quite some time now. Logically speaking, I just don't get why people would buy a product that has a high probability rate of malfunctioning! And even more so, why there isn't a big enough outcry! Come on, the company is selling you products which THEY KNOW has a high failure rate! Even if the console has good softwares! The concept eludes me! Really! Though I am not from the US, I have also observed this scenario in my country, which is even worst since there is NO MS outlet and thus no way to use the 3 years warranty (except through the sellers which they warrant for only 6 months or some a year). But I guess I find it more understandable here because most people here can't afford a PS3. But still, it is definitely more than worth it when compared to getting an unreliable machine in my opinion.

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Buckeyestar
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 8:11:38 AM
Reply

It boggles my mind that anyone would have to send their system back 3,4, or even more times and not think that this is unacceptable. I know about 6 guys at work who have an Xbox 3fixme and at least 3 of them have sent their box back 2 or more times. I had one shortly after launch, but sold it after I got my PS3, which was far, far quieter and much more stable. I am stunned by the mentality that it is okay to keep shipping your box out to be repaired. I see it constantly on forums when an Xbot is confronted with the topic of RROD, they simply reply that "it's under warranty, just send it back and get it fixed for free".

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Douchebaguette
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 8:26:51 AM
Reply

And yet Shane Kim claims that the 360 will "last one more day than the ps3".

Microsoft are filled with propoganda and lies.
They advertise waaay too much, and Sony seriously lacks it. Though, Ray Maguire did mention that Sony will begin to concentrate on marketing more.

-----------------------

As for my 360, it hasn't botched up. Yet.
But when i play it, i often worried about the disc inside, as it sounds like the 360 is always eating ang churning it. But nowadays i cease to care.

Last edited by Douchebaguette on 11/21/2008 8:28:52 AM

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Jed
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:35:33 PM

A lot of people try to trade in games that their 360 has scratched up. Just make sure your system is laying flat (not standing up like M$ advertises) and NEVER move the system with a disc inside it.

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NoMoreWar
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 8:49:19 AM
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i've been thinking about buying a 360 for some time now, but every time i really start to consider it, i save my money due to this problem.

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Dustinwp
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:24:33 AM
Reply

I have always been loyal to quality products, no matter what it maybe. If my 52" inch Phillips HDTV died on me with in a year I would never buy their products again plain and simple. I still have my original Xbox and have had no problems with it whatsoever. MS is quite capable of making a quality product, they just chose not to so they could be the first console on the market. I find that inexcusable!

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pavlovic
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:28:35 AM
Reply

Some thing that I'm amazed about is that people tell me all the time "Yeah the 360 got the RROD, but the customer service is great"...

And my answer always is the same "Oh God, I hadn't have to call Sony's customer service never, so I really don't know... yeah, you're right MS is great"

I only turn my 360 on to play GeoW2 and pray to get the green lights instead of the red ones.

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Xanavi23
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:00:11 AM
Reply

It would piss me the hell off. My brother had a 360 and it failed he had to PAY to get it fixed. He got a warranty but he HAD to pay ! WHAT THE **** is that ?!

I have a 20GB Launch OPENED-BOX PS3 and it STILL has NEVER failed on me. It barely even crashes on me let alone turns into a brick. Like you said, Halo 3 and Fable 2 are 2 titles i really want to buy, and i would think about buying s base 360 but after hearing this it will likely be a snowballs chance in hell.
I work hard for my money and a broken system isn't gonna fly. 360s off my list, i can't afford a broken system i could buy a DFGT for less than that and it wouldn't break.

Last edited by Xanavi23 on 11/21/2008 10:01:02 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:28:28 AM
Reply

Yep, easy to bring out the fanboys. All ytmman's posts (everywhere, not just this thread), are gone, as he is. Also, posts related to his trash are gone as well.

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Fabi
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:53:55 AM
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Sucks, wish I could play Gears 2, but I don't wanna go through the madness that is the RROD.

And please people, stop talking about 2009, and claiming that games you haven't even seen substantial footage/screenshots/info. on are going to destroy the 360.

We have no idea what ICO is doing, we don't know if Heavy Rain is going to be any good, we don't know if GOW3 is going to be as great as it was on the PS2, we haven't seen anything on MAG, there is no announcment for a new Ratchet game, FF13 V might be generic as hell for all we know.

I'm sure the PS3 is going to have an awesome line up in 2009, but stop hyping up games you know nothing of.

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cheng
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:56:32 AM
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@ the_importer:"SONY lost a lawsuit and had to pay-up 18 millions"...wats that got ANYTHING to do with playstation brand??so wat if sony lost 18 millions, that has nothing to do wit this "GAMING"website anyway...

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shaydey77
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 11:46:31 AM
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the Xbox is unreliabel..but what about these new falcon chipset ones??are they any good?

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Arvis
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:16:21 PM
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When I find out that someone has a 360, my first question is always ALWAYS "How many times has it broken?" And so far the answer has never been "zero." Never. If you ask me, that's a 100% failure rate.

-Arvis

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Joe_III
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:18:51 PM
Reply

Honestly, ppl need to get over this. This hasn't been a story for over a year now. The Xbox Pro's and Premiums have been fine since august 07 at least. They have fixed part of the first problem, and the newer chipsets should definitely help.

Yeah the fail rate was around 30%, but M$ also put in around 2.5 billion to extend warranties and to refund consumer costs. I know. My first one died after it was out of warranty, so I went out and bought a second for the Halo 3 beta (and to get the new HDD).

Since then, M$ fully paid for shipping my old Pro and sent me a brand new one. They even re-enabled all my exclusive Bungie day hidden downloads so I didn't lose any data aside from game saves.

I was able to sell that for near retail and and my Elite ended up costing me only $80.

I was mad when this all happened, but honestly. By now it's old news.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:21:42 PM

"Honestly, ppl need to get over this. This hasn't been a story for over a year now. The Xbox Pro's and Premiums have been fine since august 07 at least. They have fixed part of the first problem, and the newer chipsets should definitely help."

This is entirely untrue. I've seen the recent retail numbers, and the top 5 gaming retailers in North America are still reporting terrible defective numbers. Guarantees and warranties are worthless; they're cop-out band-aids that allow MS NOT to fix the problem. Numerous articles all over the 'Net are talking about how the "New Xbox Experience" is still plagued by the RRoD.

It isn't fixed. It's FAR from fixed, and it's even MORE of a news story now because MS refuses to do anything about it.

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:02:49 PM

I have to agree with Ben on this dude. The issue is still present. It may not be quite as bad as previously was but it is still a prevalent problem nonetheless. I do admit that microsoft is good about swapping the systems out but I was also told that after my 3rd machine went down that the refurbished unit I was given as a replacement did not carry the same blanket warranty as the others because the problem had been resolved with a chip replacement. I was told this while on the phone because the refurbished "problem fixed" machine had gotten the RRoD. I spent a long while on the phone talking to "managers" in the customer service department only to be told that I would have to pony up the 99 dollars for them to fix it regardless of the issue as my 90 day warranty had expired. I did it because I love the exclusives. I do. If I couldn't play Fable2 anymore I would be mad but paying 99 dollars for something that I shouldn't have to pay a dime for infuriates me.

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Dustinwp
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:20:46 PM

@Joe_III They sent a refurbished 360 to one of my friends instead of a new or the same system repaired. That's hardly the definition of a new system. Unlike Xbox fanboys he is pretty upset with MS and does not understand how people or why people make excuses for their poor business practices.

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Joe_III
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:54:44 PM

@Ben
Yeah, the numbers still aren't great, because the fail rate of the old consoles isn't going to magically go down.

@Evil
I can't speak to your friend's experience, but I can say mine was somewhat ok, even though I had to buy a second console.

But the failrate of new consoles has reduced. I haven't heard of a single complaint about either of the new chipsets. The only real problem -- and this is a real dick move from M$ -- is that a number of arcade-whatever type consoles they sell new are in fact refurbs w/o HDDs.

I'm not trying to say anything good about M$ beyond the fact that they have at least tried to fix this. The main gist of my first post was that this is only an issue with old consoles and isn't really newsworthy anymore.

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Arvis
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:21:19 PM

Joe, the point of the article (and what makes it at least editorial-worthy, if not newsworthy) is that Microsoft HASN'T tried to fix the problem. They've only covered over it. EVERY time they release a new chipset, they claim (with a ringing chorus of Xbots behind them) that it is RRoD-proof. And EVERY time, they are proven liars. And yet the fanboys continue to believe that RRoD is no longer a problem and continue to throw away their money on the product, because the product is STILL ON THE MARKET TO BE PURCHASED. Even you, as the biggest Microsoft apologist on this site, must admit that ANY other electronic device with this kind of failure rate would have been pulled from shelves before its first year. And if a "new model" were to be released, you can be darn sure that it would work. This is the point you seem to have missed.

-Arvis

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cegmp
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:48:31 PM

That's good and all. But what if you live in a country where the 3 years warranty isn't available to the general public? The retailers here give only a 6 months to 1 year warranty. What then? Pray? And I agree that the warranty shouldn't even be there in the first place. It's like they are saying, "We know our product is gonna fail." Businesses should aim for quality products and services first is what I believe in.

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GamerKid123
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:42:34 PM
Reply

Yeah, a number of my friends have had to get their EggBox *cough* sorry, XBox replaced.

Slightly off topic, i think those 360 ad's REALLY do suck, i mean, with the ugly grinning faces with a chuck out of em already, not like the PS3 ones.

BTW my fanboy switch was OFF while i did this comment.

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campat
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 12:55:55 PM
Reply

I have an X-Box 360 and a PS3. I enjoy both platforms however I find myself gravitating towards PS3 for all games I want to play unless there an Xbox excluse such as G.O.W. for fear of the R.R.o.D. Should my Xbox suffer from the R.R.o.D. I have no plans on replacing it. Even with a cooling fan attached to the Xbox, I worry that it will over heat.

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:06:26 PM
Reply

Completely off subject here but the NXE is starting to give me a great number of problems.

It has frozen my system at the menu screen 4 times now and the DL to the hard drive option has made the game Fallout 3 even slower to load. All the while I thought it was supposed to speed loading times. It did however make the system very quiet.

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Joe_III
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 1:56:09 PM

The NXE has really pissed me off. It took me forever to figure it out, and it's still laggy. I can't even get the intro video to load.

And I think fallout3 is one of the games you shouldn't install. I know that Halo3 is slower for sure, but there are a number of games where the local install either won't work or its slower.

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:04:54 PM

Also a lot of the content that I am supposed to be able to get is "missing" like the movies from netflix, and why the hell can I not control my account from the xbox?

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:14:43 PM

hmm not all the movies are missing but sometimes it tells me the content cannot be found??

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Joe_III
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 4:50:58 PM

That's cuz sony pulled all their movies from the Xbox Netflix.

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coverton341
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 5:11:41 PM

That would make sense

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Thinker
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 2:51:34 PM
Reply

While I'm one of the few who have a working "first" XBox 360 (bought it in March 2006, still working, and oh yes, knock on wood :) ), I do think that some of the opinions aired here are the most reasonable:
Specifically regarding 360 owners being reluctant to do-over the following:
(1) re-buy another system,
(2) replace library of games, and
(3) have all their gamerscore and achievements mean nothing
That is why, in my opinion, they will so vigorously defend the 360, bash the PS3 and denounce its library of games, and say that the RROD issue is "old hat". Funny how an issue becomes "old hat" just because it's saturated the public consciousness.

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Arvis
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:24:21 PM

Huh... nice post. You're living up to your name...

-Arvis

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:29:26 PM
Reply

RRoD=Sensitive issue.

Stages inside the back of people's heads=Stupid

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cegmp
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:25:45 PM

lol!!

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cegmp
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:26:37 PM

lol!!

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LightShow
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 3:29:58 PM
Reply

bleck, this is a big reason I wont invest in a 360. I'm definitely not fond of paying $300 (plus games, accessories) for a system that is wildly unreliable, just to play one or two games. Doesn't make financial sense to me.

One time I went to gamestop, and even the fanboyish cashier said that the vast majority (read: all) of the Arcade sales he made were to RROD victims. New users tended to opt for a model that came with a HDD. Perhaps this knowledge could be used to form a general trend?

I only know one guy on his first 360, and the fact that he's had it since launch has made him kinda paranoid about it. He's totally convinced it'll die after he goes too long without saving, or during any boss battle ^_^

Last edited by LightShow on 11/21/2008 3:30:26 PM

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cheng
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 5:37:52 PM
Reply

i got a friend who bought the 360 back in march tis year, n he only play it for 2-3 hours a day, 4 hours being most, because he was too afraid of the thing overheat n so far, everythings fine...so i think its something to do wit the playtime/time u leave ur xbox on, dont play it too much n it'll probably last much longer.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 8:11:56 PM

No, it just gets outside attention, which brings in the fools. But we weed them out quickly enough. ;)

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tlpn99
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 6:36:42 PM
Reply

Ben I still have my original 360 (fingers crossed it wont blow a fuse anytime soon) my mate went out and bought one, he emigrated to Australia and took it with him, all fine and dandy 3 months in the 360 *kaput pppffftttt* he got it replaced but was a load of hassle etc, my 2 cousins still have their 360's and not one has as of yet blown.
I am awaiting the day they still break though it has to happen to one of us eventually im sure, as all 3 360's were bought in the 1st year of issue.

Last edited by tlpn99 on 11/21/2008 6:42:03 PM

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Dingodial
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:25:06 PM
Reply

When Playstation 3 gets a glitch everyone goes on and on about it but when xbox 360 has a glitch it gets swept under the rug and all the 360 fanboys stick their heads in the sand. Microsoft is too lazy to refurbish the xbox 360 (like Sony has done several times to the PS2 and PS1). Microsoft is in it for the money and that's all the xbox developement team thinks about.

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chicko1983
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 7:39:27 PM
Reply

Just a question, do you have to create a new username and account if you buy a new system?

I think the best indication for how well a console is going is by the amount of copies the exclusive games sell because you dont need to buy more games if your console breaks. Plus it indicates how good the attach rate is. In this respect, the xbox360 is currently outselling and outperforming the ps3 (if you compare gears of war 2 vs R2+LBP sales).

But when K2 releases, the xbox360 doesnt have an exclusive to compete with it, and the ps3 will be outperforming the xbox360.

Just my opinion anyway.

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Dingodial
Monday, November 24, 2008 @ 2:22:23 PM

For the PS3 you have to create a secondary account that doesn't give you all the benefits of the master account (the account that you created with your 1st system) unless I'm mistaken.

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Perry Katy
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 8:09:09 PM
Reply

That's why most of game retailers in my country couldn't sell those consoles. They are too afraid with rrod issues.

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bluejello
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 9:01:03 PM
Reply

This is exactly one of the huge reasons I try to purchase any multi-platform games on the PS3 now. I spent years as a 360 achievement whore but now Microsoft's complete lack of loyalty or respect for their customers makes me absolutely disgusted. Not to mention I am currently on my 5th 360, but first PS3 (yes, from launch day 2 years ago).I'm happy to see I'm not the only one frustrated with their disturbing ignorance of the needs of their fanbase. And the recent assault at the maturity of their customers by "wii-ing" up their console with ridiculous avatars and concentration on casual gaming....oh well. I will continue to ONLY support the exclusives like Fable 2 or Left 4 Dead and hope the days of those exclusives will soon come to an end.

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Jed
Friday, November 21, 2008 @ 10:43:15 PM
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Damn ben, you get everybody all stirred up with articles like this. It's great!

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DeadReaper
Saturday, November 22, 2008 @ 1:39:30 AM
Reply

I didnt know the RROD number was that high. Because some stores are selling 360s for around $199, I was gonna buy one for the exclusives. Now I might as well keep my money and wait for next years ps3 titles.

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OU812
Saturday, November 22, 2008 @ 3:45:43 AM
Reply

Thank You Ben, for addressing a reallly serious issue I brought up awhile ago about xbox. Although have been a gamer almost all my life, I have ever really seen this kind of negligence, and so obvious and blatant. Dont hate me but I do have a soft spot for MS, but with this kind of travasity, its extremely hard to find any good from it. Sony has had lots of flaws, but they have always tried to remedy it; and the PS3 is as perfect a next gen system can get. Being a sales rep for these kinds of things, can see the true results of these kinds of issues; and xbox is an extremely huge one. When ones sees the stockpiles of failed xboxs in different countries I get very nervous.
On another note; this is one of the BEST sites for Ps3 news. Very objective and lots of common sense (To the people of Xtreme)
Thanks Again

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Justin Wyatt
Saturday, November 22, 2008 @ 7:51:05 AM
Reply

I definitely should've bought a PS3. If it weren't for the fact that I got mine cheap off a buddy of mine. Dealing with microsofts support after getting the red light is a complete headache too. The failure rate has to be astronomical literally every person I know with an xbox has had at least one experience with the three red lights.
I wrote a blog detailing my specific experience here <a href="http://www.wwwyatt.com/my-xbox360-horror-story/">http://www.wwwyatt.com/my-xbox360-horror-story/</a>

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creepypete
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 12:24:10 PM
Reply

having all 3 consoles I find it especially annoying that PS3 owners seem to dwell on this subject and keep telling 360 owners that THEY should be upset... obviously it's NOT bothering them, MS FIXES the console for THREE years after purchase, that's pretty good. So my 360 is okay, I'm happy, all my friends are happy, ... stop beating a dead horse, they have been FINE for some time now.
So the truth is, the 360 is just that good. It's so good in fact that the users are able to overlook anything that is thrown at them, and that says a lot about the loyalty of it's users. Instead of jealousy, you should be happy for them, if you can't do that then just ignore them, because when you keep bringing it up it just looks like sour grapes.

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aaronisbla
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 7:42:24 PM

this is what you failed to realize, quite a few of us ps3 owners HAVE a 360, some of us have had it RRoD on us, so its not like we are trying to tell others how they should feel about something we know nothing about. Honestly, no one should have to put up with that type of bullshit, no matter how good the games are.

You think they gave an extended warranty because they are going for "best customer service" award? The best customer service they could have done is to make sure it was good from the start, the extra couple of years warranty is just a band aid on a potential broken pipe

Like it has been said, if this was anything else, it would have been a huge fiasco and it would be pulled of shelves. Somehow, this wasn't the case

And also, its not beating a dead horse. Its hard for them to be fine now if people are still having problems with it, the NXE problems ( which i personally hope have nothing to do with NXE ) are proof that its still happening with older systems. I guess they could always upgrade but really now, who wants to keep buying new systems? the one you bought should work for you.

So what happens to those systems that was sold and didn't breakdown in 3 years or less? Are they SOL?

Last edited by aaronisbla on 11/23/2008 7:45:51 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 11:35:32 PM

Oh, yeah...so good. "So good," that the only two exclusives of any notice in 2008 are Gears 2 and Fable II, while the likes of MGS4, LBP, and Resistance 2 can take that duo any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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Arvis
Wednesday, November 26, 2008 @ 3:40:12 PM

Wow...

I know this post of mine here won't be read because it is so late, but... damn. This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. The 360 is "so good" that not having it for weeks at a time doesn't bother anyone... call me crazy, but that makes it seem like the 360 ISN'T all that great if you don't miss it when it's gone.

I have one friend with a 360, and he never turns the thing on. He spends all his time on the PSP and just bought a PS3 to play Disgaea 3. Guess how many 360 games he bought this year: ONE! Guess how many he wants in the future: ONE!

Yeah, NOT a very good console...

-Arvis

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creepypete
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 12:24:56 PM
Reply

PLease guys, ... let it go.

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serotoninzero
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 12:40:15 PM
Reply

I've had a 360 since launch. One red ringed on me, and I got a replacement. It's been three years since the 360 launched. Within the same time period I had went through two PS2s after they DRE'd. My original Xbox never had any problems. I'm not saying its okay that systems are failing, but Sony did it to me last generation. At least both of them were nice enough to fix them. At least the first time (for Sony). That's why I have extended warranties now.

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serotoninzero
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 12:42:53 PM
Reply

And saying Microsoft doesn't do anything is unfair. They bumped up the warranty for RROD errors up to 3 year coverage. That means people who bought consoles on launch day just went from being covered. That's a long time. And I'm sure a lot of RROD'd consoles were forced there. People know how to force a console to RROD, so if they have another issue say with the DVD drive, all they have to do is force it to RROD and yay its covered under warranty now.

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zell082882
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 12:54:59 PM
Reply

I own all 3 consoles and i've never had any problems w/ my ps3 or wii, only my 360. and sure as sh** i got the RRoD. Its total BS

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IonHawk
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 1:57:29 PM
Reply

Ben, slightly off-topic, but I had a defective Wii - the one I bought from Amazon came with a defective disk drive! I'm probably the only one on the planet who got one though. :)
Of all 3 consoles I have, the PS3 is the only one that hasn't failed! (knocks on wood!)

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Dante399
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 2:43:00 PM
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I'm not buying a 360 not until this is fixed.

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shootu
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 8:18:09 PM
Reply

I told my buddy to trade in his in befor its a paper weight and get a PS3. Now he got ripped off by the RED RING OF DEATH! Good job greedy M$ my bud has a $600 (at the time he bought it) paper weight! Moral of story dont waste your money on greedy junk!

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DakotaH87
Sunday, November 23, 2008 @ 10:30:29 PM
Reply

i am someone who had his ps3 mess up i paid the 160 to get it fixed and was sent a one the died on me after 3 days so as of now i waiting on my 3rd one for power and read issues

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phade2blaq
Monday, November 24, 2008 @ 6:50:34 AM
Reply

In the past, I've owned: Atari Jaguar, 5200, 7200, NES, SNES, Sega Dreamcast, N64, GC, PS1 and 2 !

Of all those systems most of which I owned for at least 4-5 years, the only ones I had any problems with were the PS1 and PS2.

I went through 4 PS1's and I've gone through 3 PS2's.

The RRoD is no doubt a bummer as were the DRE's the PS2 was famous for. I know Sony never acknowledged that there were issues with the PS1 and it's overheating issues and the DRE's of the PS2.

Anytime someone is spending in excess of $300 plus for a gaming console, the last thing you want is a faulty system and then get the run around about issues many people are having with that system.

I have two fatty PS2's and one slim PS2 all non working and sitting in a closet. They literally died and Sony expected me to pay for repairs which I felt was wrong since all have similar issues which leads me to believe that these systems had/have a design flaw.

I haven't owned any XBOX systems so I can only say I had heard about the RRoD.

I think we need to take a closer look at the causes of faulty systems. Possibly maybe even some Government inquiries into why so many fail and why manufacturers do nothing about the failures.

$399 or $499 for a gaming system is a lot of money when they die on you. I don't wanna know how many people have bought replacement systems just to avoid the hassle of dealing with manufacturers who don't acknowledge that there's an issue possibly with the design or components.

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Robochic
Tuesday, November 25, 2008 @ 10:28:11 AM
Reply

Great article ben
I really feel thats why M$ can lower their prices cause of the rebuyers, honestly it takes forever to get one fixed from M$ sometimes so why not just buy one, M$ is sly like that. I had one that had the RROD then got a refurbd lasted less than a yr, basically said screw it why spend more money on something so unrealiable. Like people complain that the Ps3 is So expensive but look at the quality of the machine my Ps3 has lasted longer than 2 xbox360s. I look at this way, you may spend 399 for a Ps3, but i bet you'll spend over 500 for a 360 due to either just getting another one after one dies, or waiting for it to be mailed back to you or having an oow console plus the pain and stress of everything.

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JonnyL
Thursday, November 27, 2008 @ 1:31:26 AM
Reply

This one of the key points that made my decision to buy a ps3. I would like to by a 360 but until this problem is fixed, MS can forget getting my money.

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