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Sony And MS Can Ignore Nintendo

So there are these two basketball teams going at it on the blacktop; at first, one team just continues to throw down rim-rattling dunks and continues to dominate. It's like the Globetrotters goin' nuts. Then, the other team starts to recruit some star players, and now, the once-trod-upon team is rapidly making a comeback and cutting into the lead. Now, across the way, there's a baseball team practicing; no game going on, just a practice. They've already won a championship, and they're just breezin' along with an easy workout.

In this scenario, if you couldn't already guess, the Xbox 360 is the first b-ball team, the PS3 is the comeback competitor, and the baseball stars represent the Wii. The point is obvious: the PS3 and 360 will continue to do battle for quite some time while the Wii won't even factor in because, contrary to popular fanboy belief, the Wii is not a direct competitor. Why? The PS3 and 360 caters to gamers while the Wii caters to non-gamers; the families, the gadget-lovers, the trend-followers, etc. All one has to do is check the marketing campaigns for all three interested parties, and that should be more than enough evidence. The Wii commercials so far have featured senior citizens bowling, parents and children playing together, two adult women wandering around in Animal Crossing, dozens of people in the background trying out the new Wii instruments, and the like. All of this indicates one common focus. It's the worldwide appeal of something accessible, and there's nothing wrong with that, but...

In any Wii commercial you have ever seen, would you ever locate someone you would perceive as a "gamer?" Honestly? Furthermore, it's painfully obvious Nintendo isn't interested in producing impressive software; it's all about the gimmick and always has been. Just look at 2008. Of the top 25 titles of the year, how many are on the Wii? 1? 2? Any? Or perhaps the better question is, will any Wii titles be considered for Game of the Year against the likes of MGS4, GTAIV, Gears of War 2, Fallout 3, Dead Space, LittleBigPlanet, etc.? The Wii defenders will instantly play the "yeah, we like to have fun" card, which of course implies that those who prefer the PS3 and 360 aren't having fun. ...yes, that's a water-tight argument there. You Wii lovers certainly can't hide behind a tower of top-notch software; it's basically all on the PS3 and 360, so that's a waste of time. The titles that push the envelope and make this generation what it is aren't possible on the Wii.

And that's because the Wii kinda operates in a weird parallel universe outside the gaming industry. Yes, they're video games...um...kinda. They're appreciated so long as the gimmick is appreciated. Look, I will forever applaud Nintendo for going a different direction in this new generation and deciding not to challenge Sony and Microsoft; they simply targeted a demographic that - as far as I can tell - is the exact opposite demographic that would buy the PS3 and/or 360. While I'm aware it's purely anecdotal evidence, let me just say that everyone I know who owns a Wii most certainly isn't a gamer, and would never own either the PS3 or 360. They saw the commercials and thought it'd be a cool electronic toy for themselves or the kids; the last video game they played was Pac-Man. What, with the trillions of Wiis around the world, do you really, truly, honestly believe we're talking about the sudden explosion of gamers? Or, and I'm just tossing this out there, we're talking about everyone else...?

I hold nothing against Nintendo, nor do I care if you're a Wii fan. If you're having fun, great. It's all entertainment, but no logical human can ever say that the PS3 and 360 are in direct competition with the Wii. Totally different target audience, and a totally different method of delivering entertainment. One is a video game, the other is more like one of those old Tiger handhelds brought to life in your hands with a fancy peripheral. The point is, Sony and MS should just focus on themselves and each other, as should those who follow the industry. And I'll tell you this- the more we move through this generation, the more my theory will become accepted...the more everyone will start to recognize the distinct difference between the PS3/360 and the Wii.

12/4/2008 Ben Dutka

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Comments (191 posts)

GoldenShadow
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 10:34:50 PM
Reply

There are games being made for the Wii?

Last edited by GoldenShadow on 12/4/2008 10:39:46 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 10:51:31 PM

Shovelware.

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Bugzbunny109
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:51:42 PM

lol

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somethingrandom
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 10:42:09 PM
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I laughed when I saw that Call of Duty: World at War is on Wii.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 10:52:03 PM

I laughed when I saw Tomb Raider: Underworld was.

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Qubex
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:13:09 AM

Have you seen WaW on the Wii? Is it any good, or is a 2D rendition?

Q!

"i Am HoMe"

Last edited by Qubex on 12/5/2008 12:13:22 AM

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Daedusian
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 10:53:54 PM
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LOL loved the article!

And that commercial with the two women playing Animal Crossing was probably the funniest thing I have ever seen! Kudos to Nintendo for making me smile!

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:37:19 AM

Have u seen that DS commercial w/ that chick from FRIENDS? That cooking aid commercial? I was like, "Wii has so much ad money. They'll target any demographic."

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Daedusian
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:25:47 PM

haha yeah, she was probably thinking the entire time "what in the hell am I doing" lol.

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John Shoemaker
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 10:58:56 PM
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Most Wii games that are on other consoles are dumb down versions of those games. Like CoD:WaW. Have you seen those graphics for that thing? God awful. I don't think that thing even sold 100k on the Wii.
Look at there sports games. It's not even the same as the PS3/360 games. I think the EA titles are called Family Play, or something along those lines.
I agree with Ben 100%. You can't compare the Wii to the PS3 or 360 because there isn't anything to compare to.

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Annihilator221
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:03:15 PM
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"...everyone I know who owns a Wii most certainly isn't a gamer, and would never own either the PS3 or 360."

I own the Wii and PS3, however the only reason I bought it was for Super Smash and Zelda. Sadly, I eel a poor investment was made on my part... as Zelda was sub-par and everyone I know now has a Wii and SSBB... But I Love my PS3. :)

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Aftab
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:27:36 PM
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"And that's because the Wii kinda operates in a weird parallel universe outside the gaming industry."

This is most certainly true. Furthermore, the other universe actually benefits from it. Were it not for Nintendo's weening of the younger (and previous) generations, Sony and MS would have fewer customers.

Last edited by Aftab on 12/4/2008 11:28:00 PM

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Joe_III
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:31:01 PM
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QFMFT Ben...its about time someone else ranted on this instead of me at random forums...

But you can't say that they are not in competition. To go with your example, all the baseball fans are going to see the baseball games, while the basketball fans are split between watching either of the two basketball games.

But what about general sports lovers? Those that can afford it will probably see games from all 3 teams, but those that only go to one game a season are probably going to go with the one all their other _casual_ sports fans pick... And it wouldn't hurt M$ and Sony to show those fans that hey, you get more going to a basketball game than a baseball game.

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JPBooch
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:29:28 AM

Nice point Joe, all three are vying for the consumers entertainment dollar. Nintendo hit a home run (pun intended) when they decided to make it mainstream.

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Advent Child
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:31:07 PM
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HAHA I am like Annhihilator221. I bought the wii at release mostly because I was 15th in line at my local walmart for the PS3 and they ended up having 14 :( but yea I bought it for Zelda. Bought RE4 because I hadn't played it yet and was bored and have since bought Metroid and Super Smash Brothers. But yea I have like total playtime on my wii in the double digits. Total playtime on my PS3 is probably reaching the quadruple digits...

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:45:50 AM

U were 15th in line and they only had 14?! WOW! Man, I waited in line for 2 days and got my PS3 but the following Tuesday I went to the same Best Buy during my lunch break to buy a new CD. U know what happen when I walked in...grown men and women were rushing the game section! I check it out and they had PS3's! I was pissed b/c I kinda waited in line for nothing. So, I bought another 20GB and sold it on EBay for $950.

Last edited by King James on 12/5/2008 11:46:44 AM

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ec0li
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:34:12 PM
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I totally agree with this article. You took the words right out of my mouth. I never would have thought that there would be a holiday in which Nintendo did not release one compelling game for the "true" gamer.

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:48:50 AM

What are you talking about, man!? They gave you Wii Music this year!!!

-Arvis

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isaya85
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:38:21 PM
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I just dont understand the fascination with the thing everybody I know that has one dont play it just collect dust, I personally think nintendo dont matter anymore

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Saber1989
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:48:40 PM
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If it was a competition, the Wii wins by a long shot almost double of PS3 and 360 put together. And plus didnt it win console of the year in 2007? Anyways, I love my PS3 but I do have to say Wii is pretty enjoyable from time to time. Games like Mario Kart if you use the old controller, and games like Super Mario Bash Bro. Some games are fun to play but sorry to say it but there are real gamers (super geeks) that prefer the Wii. Go to Fan Expo where there is anime, si-fi etc... Gamers that love anime usually will go for Wii, but true gamers goes for PS3/360 well smart true gamers go for PS3!

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Fabi
Thursday, December 04, 2008 @ 11:57:41 PM
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Awesome article Ben. Couldn't agree more. It's sad to see those Nintendo commercials.

I can't help but think of those magical moments spent at Toys 'r' Us drooling over Mario 64 or getting up at 5 in the morning when my friend spent the night over and brought his 64 just to get in a few hours by myself with GoldenEye.

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:51:47 AM

Man, I remember I had friends come over to spend the night. Everyone brought their controlled controllers and some1 would bring Goldeneye. We didn't sleep at all; we played it all night.

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Qubex
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:15:05 AM
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Is it a case of... I have to waste money, let me give it to Nintendo! Why doesn't Nintendo open up a banking division...

...or maybe, secretly, Nintendo are developing their next NEXT generation console... called WiiMax! Who knows, who cares? Do you?

Q!

"i Am HomE"

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:54:08 AM

If the next nintendo system is a legit next-gen console and they announce real games for it, then maybe I'll care. Till then...PS3 for me.

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BigT_1980
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:24:03 AM
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I own both a PS3 and a Wii and I can't agree with your article. The reason I say this is because I have personally gotten other friends who were Wii owners convinced they needed a PS3. They would come over my house we would play some Wii games then I would convince them to try play some PS3 games. I get them started on games like Buzz, Little Big Planet and Soul Calibur IV. I would also show them some PSN titles like Flow, and Pixel Junk Eden. I would then show them how stunning games can look on the PS3 by playing games like Metal Gear Solid IV and WipeOut HD. MGS 4 was a little too difficult for them to grasp however seemed to enjoy WipeOut HD even though they weren't doing to great at it. However one of my friends who owned Excite Truck on the Wii actually said the sixaxis controls were better on WipeOut than the motion Controls on Excite Truck and it was showing because he was navigating one of the tracks fairly well that he was racing on. I finally showed them what movies on Blu-ray look like on the PS3. As a result I have convince three of my friends that are Wii owners to purchase a PS3. The main point I am trying to make with my statement is Wii owners can potentially become a PS3 or XBOX 360 owners.

Last edited by BigT_1980 on 12/5/2008 12:31:40 AM

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Advent Child
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:41:31 AM

YOUR RIGHT! OH MY GOSH THE WII IS A GATEWAY DRUG!!!

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:43:18 AM

Er...doesn't that whole post prove my point?

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Saber1989
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:02:32 AM

not in a clear way Ben

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:10:30 PM

But did u need a Wii to convince your Wii friends? Are they that close-mind "U gotta be in the Wii Club" types, to even listen to u? I sell Wii/360 owners all the time on PS3s w/o even reaching for a different controller.

I don't need a Wii sell PS3 to my Wii friends and I don't use my 360 to sell my 360 friends.

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BigT_1980
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 7:41:15 PM

I never bought the Wii to prove why my friends needs to get a PS3. I bought the Wii to play most of the first party games on it and a few third party games because they are actually fun to play. In addition many of my friends are not gamers themselves and the Wii is approachable to them. I agree with Ben that the caliber of the games on the Wii for the most part aren't that great however their are fun titles to play on the Wii. But to be perfectly honest I haven't touch my Wii in several months now except for when friends are over. While I will probably get flak over the previous sentence if taken out of context, the Wii is good option if you want to have an entertaining time with your non gamer friends because of the ease of use. Plus the girls seem to dig it too.

Last edited by BigT_1980 on 12/5/2008 7:43:29 PM

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Daryl
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:11:11 AM
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I agree with some of this, but I disagree with more of it. I own both a PS3 and a Wii and appreciate them both. I'm not a Microsoft fan, but I may buy it out of a bargain bin some day.

You are wrong about who is catering to non-gamers. While the 360 includes a hard drive to run netflix movies, and the ps3 includes a blu-ray drive, Nintendo has always ONLY been about the games. Anything else is fanboy talk. While Sony and Microsoft try to make entertainment hubs, Nintendo cuts the costs and makes it about only gaming. This also applies to previous generations.

You are also wrong to say Nintendo ONLY targets non-gamers. It is true that the type of people who play Nintendo compared to the type of people who like first person shooters, are apples and oranges. But you can't say they aren't gamers. They are just gamers who are more interested in the GAMEPLAY part of "video game," whereas HD fans are more interested in the VIDEO part of "video game." As somebody who prefers gameplay over graphics, I prefer Nintendo's approach. I'll take Megaman 9 over gears of war any day. I know mm9 is multiplatform, but it illustrates my point that hardcore gamers should be interested in gameplay more than in graphics.

The one thing I agree with in this article is that the target market is different. I like PS3 for a high powered HD experience, but I like Wii for its more diverse and interesting library of games. And I've been gaming since the NES, and I PC game, so I'm one of the few people here who can actually claim the title "hardcore."

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Qubex
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:25:41 AM

I have to admit, you have some valid points Daryl!

Q!

"i Am HoMe"

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Advent Child
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 2:35:12 AM

And I have to admit that your ego is about to explode

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aaronisbla
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 2:36:45 AM

No offense but the "gameplay over graphics" argument can only go so far. Thats cool, gameplay is important, but honestly, there aren't a lot of games on the way that offer great gameplay, at least in my opinion.

Seriously, are ps3 and 360 owners in the wrong for wanting a good looking game with great gameplay? why settle for one when its possible to have both?

Now if nintendo had awesome quality filled titles a lot more often than they do now, yeah that argument would hold water. But when you are feeding your system a lot of shovelware, it gets pretty sad don't you think?

Also, i think you are in the wrong to say that ps3 and 360 owners are in it for the "video" part of video games. Although sony might have made the mistake of passing this system off as something more than just a game system, the fact is it has a strong library of games. PS3 and 360 is first and foremost, gaming systems, imo moreso than the wii has been this gen

Last edited by aaronisbla on 12/5/2008 2:40:00 AM

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Saber1989
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:05:22 AM

Agree for most of what you said

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:23:49 AM

You're not allowed to say Nintendo is "all about the games." The Nintendo fans have to STOP that. After the software released in 2008, in direct comparison to the PS3/360 software, and due to the marketing campaign that CLEARLY only focuses on the hardware gimmick, you're NOT allowed to say this. No more.

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:56:20 AM

I stopped reading when you said that Nintendo has "always ONLY been about the games." WHAT GAMES!? Seriously, WHAT THE HELL are you playing on that thing? I have one, and it ONLY gets played for a Smash Brothers tourney once a month. We don't even play Mario Kart on it anymore and that's it's best game! How can a console be "all about the games" when there ARE NO GAMES to be played on it??

And that's not even mentioning the fact that all its best games can be played without that god-awful Waggle Stick. The GameCube controller is the best option for Brawl, Mario Kart, and Fire Emblem. Hmmm, sounds alot like a freaking GameCube only $200 more expensive.

Seriously, the Wii is NOT about the games. And it NEVER has been. Have fun with Wii Music over the holidays, Daryl.

-Arvis

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:19:08 PM

All about the games? If u wanna call those games, go ahead. I call it s**tware, others call it shovelware.

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Daedusian
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:20:38 PM

I'm sorry but I am not a PS3 owner who is only interested in the 'video' aspect of gaming. The sole reason I bought a PS3 was for the quality of games that essentially give the most entertainment for my buck. Having HD just adds icing to the cake really. And I think I speak for many PS3/360 owners.

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NiteKrawler
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:11:54 PM

Let's say you're right about Nintendo being ONLY about the games. If that was true, then they would have more money than they'd know what to do with. I say that because the Wii has sold so many consoles and they haven't even had to dish out money for anything high tech. The Wii is about as low tech as my cell phone. So wouldn't it seem that with all of that money, They'd be able to put out at least one game with great graphics AND gameplay? The Wii does have a few great games like SSBB, Zelda, and Mario Kart (I've only actually played SSBB), but that's it. Meanwhile the PS3 has MGS4, LBP, Uncharted, Resistance...This has been done to death so I'm gonna stop listing the PS3's great games, everyone should know by now. And the 360 has the Halo franchise, Left 4 Dead, Gears...etc. Plus the multiplatforms like RE 5, SC4, Fallout 3...etc. And all these games listed both look great and play even better! So shh.

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BigT_1980
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:25:01 AM
Reply

I going by the title of this article that states "Sony and Microsoft can Ignore Nintendo. Sony needs to advertise what the PS3 can do. While I understand the price is a factor that not as many PS3 are sold however if Sony would advertise to the casual gamer more or even advertise at all for that matter they would sell more units. Sadly it seems the most advertising the PS3 gets is word of mouth. The hardcore gamers who read games magazines and internet gaming sites don't need the advertisements as much as the uniformed casual gamer. I hate to admit but as far as advertising to the casual gamer Microsoft is doing a much better job than Sony. Maybe I not fully understanding your article because I am purely looking at it from a marketing perspective. Sony needs look a what Nintendo doing and show you can have a casual experience with the PS3 as well however the PS3 offers so much more in addition.

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Qubex
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:38:08 AM

BigT_1980, the PS3 is not meant for the casual gamer though!

Q!

"i aM hOMe"

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Saber1989
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:09:33 AM

I dont know man, the PS3 has some casual games like Guitar Hero, LBP, any sports game, etc..., its only hardcore if the gamers wants more like harder difficulty, creating levels (LBP), and playing seasons in sports games. FPS could be for casual gamers if they are playing to just have fun. Its only harcore if you want it to be.

All console are for casual gamers, and all of them can be for hardcore gamers as well.

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:22:43 PM

Casual gamers casually buy Wii's no matter what. They won't even look in the PS3 direction.

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crapreviews
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:47:23 AM
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i got half way into the 4th paragraph and just stopped reading. was tired of hearing 50 million ways of what Nintendo is about.

should have been talking about what Sony and MS need to do to win. Not spend 5 paragraphs doing an ad for what Nintendo is all about. Were they paying you?

Not trying to be rude just saying....

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Qubex
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 2:16:40 AM

I think it is the unbelievable sales figures that Nintendo keep ratcheting up, even in an economic depression... How do they do it, and why can't the PS3 be of similar success? What is their secret to success?

Q!

"i aM HoMe"

Last edited by Qubex on 12/5/2008 2:17:20 AM

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NiteKrawler
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:15:12 PM

Japan is awesome at marketing. Look what they did with Pokemon! I heart Pokemon.

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Scarecrow
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:21:32 AM
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Sadly Nintendo can only blame themselves...
I mean they're making good money though....

But still they won't be remembered as being innovative this time around. Aside from the controller which produced a lot of great party games but not much great for the hardcore gamers.

Though there are good games which come out for it. Have you guys checked out the sequel to Tales of Symphonia? That game is beautiful!!!!!!!

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Frank2550
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:29:55 AM
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You're all just a bunch of butthurt fanboys. Everyone knows Nintendo is a direct competitor of the current next-gen consoles. You just refuse to acknowledge the fact because Nintendo's simple 'waggle' is beating the PS3 and Xbox360's graphics. People nowadays do not need superior graphics to play games. That's why the DS is doing so good as well. If you're only sticking to the HD consoles for the graphics you're all just a bunch of 'graphic-skanks'. Get over it.

Last edited by Frank2550 on 12/5/2008 3:30:15 AM

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FallenClyro
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:53:34 AM

I laughed.

Just so you know, I own a PS3, Wii and a Nintendo DS. I absolutely love my DS, it's a great portable system so I have no complaints about it.

My Wii used to get played quite a lot when I first bought it but after a while I got bored of the games because I thought they were all the same. Then I got my PS3 and I never touch my Wii.

What I don't understand is that everybody says that "all you care about is graphics blah blah" so what, are you saying that the 360 and PS3 games aren't fun? If you are then your extremely wrong. I've had more fun on my PS3 than I have ever had on my Wii.

Oh and by the way I actually think the Wii's graphics are pretty good, I thought they did a great job of Super Mario Galaxy.

Last edited by FallenClyro on 12/5/2008 9:54:36 AM

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:04:05 AM

Lamborghini and Ferrari are not in direct competition with Toyota.

And how the CRAP do you come to the conclusion that "Nintendo's simple waggle is beating PS3/360 graphics??" Because the Wii sells more units, that somehow means it is "better?" If you're ACTUALLY a gamer, you'll have to use more than sales numbers (which don't directly benefit you AT ALL) to make the statement that the Wii is "better" than anything!

Get over yourself. You backed the wrong horse. Nintendo won't be giving you video games anymore. It will be giving you toys. Decide now whether you are a "gamer" or a kid who plays with toys.

-Arvis

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King James
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:26:12 PM

I must be so blissful in your ignorant little word.

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daus26
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:43:19 AM
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I miss the old nintendo days in the N64 n SNES era. I enjoyed the single player mario adventure games. Now, instead of making better mario adventure games, they decided to make Mario an all star sports player with baseball, soccer, etc. In fact a lot of the nintendo characters seem to hve an off day on their hero duties. Its all just party n games now.

So yeah, I agree, their direction is definitely not to the hardcore gamers anymore. Games like donkey kong adventures, banjo kazooie, super mario adventures, zelda, etc., are now absent or very scarce.

N if they do target the hardcore gamers, they wouldn't be able to do it well with the wii's current specs. For sakes, we're almost in the HD era, n the wii can't even support HD.

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firehahahahaha
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 4:51:42 AM
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I got a Wii for some of the good first party Nintendo games like Metroid, and Zelda, and Mario, etc. and also for the old classic download snes and nes and n64 etc games. it's still something cool to have around.

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the_importer
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 5:53:29 AM
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This article is a pure example of what's wrong with gamers these days, the HARDCORE syndrome. I could spend a couple of paragraphs explain it, but this guy beat me to the punch a while back:

tinyurl.com/6dzz4s
tinyurl.com/63dxyx

Last edited by the_importer on 12/5/2008 5:53:46 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:25:58 AM

The "hardcore" syndrome is a Nintendo fanboy dodge. I like to have fun with my games; it's no more complex or noble than that. To hide behind the "hardcore syndrome" crap is just evasive.

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the_importer
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 6:01:31 PM

@Ben Dutka PSXE

There are 2 sides to a coin. Did you even watch the videos, guessing not. As a gamer who owned most major consoles (don't have a 360) since the after crash, I can confirm the shift from video games going from "Everything Goes" to "If it's not realistic and doesn't have violence, it's not hardcore".

The entire casual and hardcore topics only surged right before the PS3 and Wii were out, so if anything, it's the gamers who only play Sports and FPS who are trying to defend their picky tastes.

I can't wait for 2009 to see how many copies Little Big Planet sold because if it's one of the biggest sellers for the PS3, then SONY fanboys won't have anything to hide behind because this game makes Mario look like Solid Snake.

As for me, I'll take Eternal Sonata over Fallout 3 and No More Heroes over GTAIV.

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karneli lll
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 6:51:14 AM
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i know a bunch of people who use their ps3 s for watching movies and playing music only. Getting them to play calling all cars was a nightmare.But they buy a lot of movies from the ps store so its a win win i guess.

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Chaotic Jake
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 7:18:10 AM
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Hmph... To think this guy knows ANYTHING about what he's talking about...

First off, let's start from the ground up. GREAT! Nintendo was thrashing the market, even through the heat of the Sega Genesis. But even then, you have to remember that the premise of Nintendo was, has been, and will always remain family oriented. Just list one American released game for the NES or SNES that were inappropriate for younger gamers AND were NOT knocked down in content (like the removal of blood in Mortal Kombat). And no, a certain 3 Persian NES games don't count (for those of you who know what I'm talking about).

Just because Nintendo doesn't focus on a specific age tier doesn't make them any worse off than the others. In fact, that very well may be a leg up that the other companies straggle in. Games these days have control schemes that can fry even the more intelligent groups of gamers (i.e. Devil May Cry 4, if you don't set the combos to AUTO). My father was once a fond gamer, playing games like Sonic 3 and A Link to the Past, pushing himself to virtually master every aspect of the games. But these days, remotes have countless buttons and even more numerous ways to use them, basically cutting him off from even enjoying the games anymore. Not everyone has cat-like reflexes and comprehension skills. That's where Nintendo strikes well in. They choose to keep the controls simple as to prevent gamers from saying "Oh, it looked like a nice game, very flashy, but playing it is way too confusing. I'll never remember how to do this or even learn it in the first place!"

And with the gadgets... I don't know what you have against the gadgets. Maybe you're lazy, heck if I know? Lord knows that Nintendo decided to stay cheap, efficient, and most importantly versatile rather than create another $400+ console with a seven trillion gig hard drive, fiber-optic quality wireless internet, blue-ray/HD upgrades, and graphics that try to surpass real life. Get a grip! Rather than struggling, forcing themselves through the cramped tunnels of HD with Sony and Microsoft, they decided to space themselves out through another manner to both compensate for their weaknesses as well as to keep from putting all of their eggs in one basket and have the competition one-up them out of the market for good.

Back to the topic at hand, what this guy really fails to realize is that for a company to succeed, they must find what they are truly good at, and pursue it to their full extent. A 'Jack of all Trades' is a master of none. And he'll never be remembered as anything more than 'that one system...' And I'm sure that EVERYONE can agree that, while a lot of Nintendo's games are visually appealing, they were never at the top of the game graphics-wise. Genesis graphics were in all reality a notch higher than the SNES, and Sony, well... That's no contest, shame to say. Graphics were never Nintendo's forte, so don't be so quick as to pull that card, for, as in the third gen wars, graphics aren't everything.

Well, after reading your article three times over, I'm about winded from finding items to disclaim that haven't already been conversed, but I find just one more point that you seem so self-righteously determined to defend, and that's the terminology 'gamer'. Tell me, what makes someone a 'gamer'? Is it hovering around a flickering HD monitor, playing WoW for more than 12 hours a day? Is it thrashing Halo on Legendary? Or is it forging through the maelstrom bullet-hell of Mushihimesama on a single continue?

All of these are a good way to describe a gamer of a hardcore status, but inevitably does NOT grasp the full definition. To be a gamer, you do not have to have a gamer score of over 50,000 points. The title bears no preliminary qualifications of 'well, you have to play/beat this particular game'. What makes a gamer lies not in his achievements, but in how he plays the game. A true gamer will tell you that he plays the game for FUN! He plays it because he enjoys what he does, regardless of whether it's saving the world from a mechanical alien invasion or flipping omelets on a skillet. He also doesn't keep it all to himself. He (or she, of course) gets their friends in and has a good time playing together, whether competitively, or just for kicks.

And to say that families are non-gamers... EVERY MEMBER OF MY FAMILY PLAYS GAMES!!! From my parents (puzzle game die-hards and long-time fans of the Ocarina of Time), to my 4 brothers and little sister, each with their own distinctive tastes in systems, games, and genres. We own dozens of systems including EVERY Nintendo, Sony, and Sega system ever released in the U.S. (many of which we have more than three of), as well as both X-Box and 360, an Atari 2600, TurboGrafx-16, Neo-Geo Pocket, and a Panasonic 3DO. I myself have been playing games since I was 2, with the NES Rambo as one of my earliest childhood memories. Believe me, not all of your little Wii-fanatics are as fresh on the subject of gaming as you think.

The ONLY thing I have to agree on is yes, the Nintendo is headed in another direction with their latest generation system. Why? I think we already know the answer. Bad enough a lot of companies have bailed on them, like Rare, the primary holders of Donkey Kong, Star Fox and Banjo-Kazooie. If you were such a 'gamer', you would already start to realize that "Oh, shoot! We can't beat them out with graphics. Should we try again and get shut out, or should we try a different approach to penetrate their flawless defenses?" If one thing doesn't work, why keep doing it? Had Nintendo even tried to focus only on their graphics engine, more than likely the Wii would've sunk, plain and simple. A hard pill to swallow, but it's the cold hard truth.

And the sudden flare of Wii gamers? Not a fad, but a success, whereas Nintendo did what no company has tried to do yet: make games more fun through methods of a more physical demanding. Sure, hardcore gamers may brush it off, but they have their own interests as do everyone else. Given time, you'll come to understand that, too. Besides, I'd personally rather melt away my free-time flailing the Wii-mote to No More Heroes than have to even begin learning the complexity of DMC4.

So yeah, perhaps not a direct rival, but a rival nonetheless. Not a Doom Knight, but a powerful sorcerer is still to be feared. May not be as ground-breakingly awesome as Gears of War 2 looks, but more like Little Big Planet, who while isn't as visually 'awe-inspiring' still finds a way to achieve the Platinum rating in just about every magazine. An opponent is still a threat regardless of its position and, if left unchecked, just may pull a fast one and deter the competition. You may make the mistake, but believe it, both Sony and Microsoft are well aware of the threat.

Just look at the new 360 experience. Can we say 'X-Box Mii'? Such a blatant rip-off to mimic Nintendo... And don't think Sony is off the hook. They, too, acknowledge the growing fad of personal avatars, and are trying to steer the market back to their side with the Playstation home, which in all reality holds about the same premise as a modernized, higher-quality Animal Crossing. Wi-fi play, anyone? Sony's PSP soon adapted that trendy little system link method to keep ahead of the DS's 4-player wi-fi link play. Even the PS3 tilt sensors... I'm sure that if graphics were all that were required to win the crowd, that wouldn't have been necessary.

Case and point, Nintendo has been around MUCH longer than its competition, and as such they know how to hit the market with the kind of style that makes it completely harmless on them while still putting pressure on its opposition. Given, they will always be a mainstream competitor, regardless of class.

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recks1jtp
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 7:54:49 AM

I want a fiber-optic quality wireless internet and a seven trillion gig hard drive!!! Dude, where do you shop?!?

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FLYING_APE
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:11:57 AM

I can't belive i read all that. Don't get offended but seriously you need to get out the house more lol

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:35:44 AM

Dude, Ps3 is the jack-of-all trades and is the most trail blazing of all. Umm the sixaxis is there for people who must flail themselves about...well not that bad...

My one and only question to you (Chaotic Jake)...Whats wrong with PROGRESS?

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 12/5/2008 9:36:32 AM

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:42:01 AM

So... where in that huge diatribe do you address the fact that Wii games suck and the Wiimote is not fun to use?

-Arvis

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 1:29:43 AM

That was no diatribe, if you were referring to me. Learn the meaning of the word. It was meant as comical...

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 12/6/2008 1:30:42 AM

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Arvis
Monday, December 08, 2008 @ 2:35:28 PM

Hmmm, gee Wage, I wonder if there are any huge diatribes somewhere nearby that I could have been referring to... ;)

-Arvis

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coldbore
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 7:51:20 AM
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i technically should have a wii, when it first came out i was 2nd in line but the delivery guy got like robbed or something along the lines of that, anyways whenever i played the wii, i always found that it would lose its novelty really quickly. have you ever heard someone with a wii brag about having one, or even see it being played. after like 3 months or so it just lies there and will probobly never be touched again.

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FallenClyro
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:56:36 AM

Yeah exactly, I can only play about 1 hour tops on it now before I get bored and want to do something else.

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Deleted User
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 7:52:47 AM
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direct competition OR NOT the wii is still in the same market and is still outselling the other 2 systems combined. I'm sure nintendo doesn't GIVE A DAMN what sony and microsoft is doing as long as it keeps making more money than both of them.

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Saber1989
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:42:39 AM
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I think after reading all these comments, it kinda proves that this article is not really clear on what Ben is trying to say, but apparently most people disagree with it, and any Wii owner is still consider a gamer and anyone can be a hardcore gamer if they want to be, but really we are all casual gamer which all three system are designed for. Its the games that allows us to be hardcore. In conclusion, Nintendo is in direct competition with Sony and Microsoft.

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:43:15 AM

Incorrect. Lambroghini and Ferrari are not in direct competition with Toyota.

-Arvis

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Saber1989
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 1:56:47 AM

if you put it like that, you make me look like an idiot, good job man lol damn i guess i did not think that through. Awesome analogy lol

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:47:48 AM
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Only one problem with your analogy, Ben. Sure, the Wii may be playing Baseball...but the sports fans are spending their money at the baseball park instead of at basketball stadium, and that's the bottom line.

Put it like this: If you're a Hollywood movie studio, and people start spending more money on video games instead of going to the movies, can you ignore video games because they're a different form of entertainment? Not if it's cutting into your bottom line.

The fact that Sony and MS THINK they can ignore the Wii is the reason they're behind. They need to examine what the Wii is doing right, and follow suit.

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:04:19 AM
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lol...I think you should keep all the points in this article the same, but change the title to "Nintendo Can Ignore Sony and MS."

I mean, all of your points work both ways. And Nintendo is moving more units, and making more money per unit. So, if anyone is in a position to ignore anyone else...

Also, I don't understand the position that Wii owners are not gamers. Does a console have to have a certain amount of gigahertz before it's considered a "real" gaming console? Does it have to push a certain number of polygons at a certain resolution to be a "true" gaming console? That seems to be the case, or the argument. But, I disagree. They are video games and people are playing them. It may not be "next gen," but, so what? There are PEOPLE...PLAYING...VIDEO GAMES on the Wii. I'm sure in some elitist "You're not keeping up with current technology" way there's a difference. But, in a basic dollars and cents sense...hey, if Milton Bradley starts moving Monopoly board games in Wii numbers, a smart man would take notice.

Ever hear the story of the tortoise and the hare?

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FLYING_APE
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:15:51 AM

Your name is awesome i might change my name to max powers.

Anyways Wii is absolute waste of money i can buy radiohead cds or porno...JK...seriously

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:57:58 AM

I'm not saying that the Wii is a great console or has great games. I've only played one once, and really have no interest in owning one myself. But, to say that it can be ignored is just nuts to me.

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:09:03 AM

Everyone has heard the story of the tortoise and the hare...but do you remember the ending? The way I see it right now, the Hare would be Nintendo...Quick off the line, running for all it's worth, while PS3 is the tortoise, taking it's time to get things done. So what happens when the Hare runs out of steam and needs to rest? I'm not sure where Xbox falls into this story though...I was going to make a comment about it still being at the start line tying it's RROD shoelaces, but it's still beating PS3 at this point...so It remains to see whether there are two hares in this race or two tortoises....

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:10:12 AM

By the way, I stole the name from a friend of the family who's name is actually Michael Powers. I just always thought that was the coolest name ever.

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:12:07 AM

I see it differently. Nintendo is the tortoise. Completely overlooked and underestimated...ignored (sorry, that "ignore" thing just doesn't sit well with me).

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:22:42 AM

Hmm..I wouldn't say that Nintendo is ignored, as you've already mentioned the sales figures speak for themselves..I just think it's ignored by the gamers that outgrew that type of platform. You can't ignore Nintendo, It's just not designed for anyone who is above being a casual gamer.

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:46:04 AM

I think it's more like "We wish Sony and Microsoft would ignore Nintendo because we don't want three different Wiis in the market and no REAL video games consoles."

Alas, Microsoft is already falling into the trap and killing off gaming slowly...
http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/12/04/microsoft-less-hardcore-xbox-360-games-in-2009/

-Arvis

Last edited by Arvis on 12/5/2008 11:46:16 AM

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:25:22 AM
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One thing that any Hardcore gamer can agree on, be he from the 360/PS3 tribes, is that the Wii is a kick in the pants to the advancement of the industry. People hang on the "bang for the buck phrase" and I'll point 'em toward the Ps2. That thing (Wii) was obsolete in the first 6 months of its life.

The amazing thing is that the Wii fanboys are RABID! Get a 360 even...I dont care just dont getta Wii...

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 12/5/2008 9:26:07 AM

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GuinnessGulper
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:27:50 AM
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I'm an old school gamer's gamer and fully agree that the Wii is not targeted for us and I'd never own one. It's total fluff. HOWEVER, I did borrow one to play Super Mario Galaxy which was about the best platformer I've ever played. Nothing like it is available for the "true" next-gen systems, and I have a launch PS3 so have been waiting a long time. LBP is a great platformer and is the first real one to debut on the system, but SMG was a truly awesome piece of work and enjoyable from start to finish and left me wanting more. Much more. It was poor in graphics compared to the PS3 of course, and the controls are not what I'm used to, but it was FUN and very well produced and that meant more than any "console rivalry" rhetoric. So while I'll never own one, I appreciate it's existence if only for the fun I had with that one game (and hopefully a sequel!)

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:48:41 AM

Yikes... SMG made me want puke. Needlessly disorienting with annoying camera angles and far too "experimental" gameplay. It barely felt like a Mario game to me.

Great music, though.

-Arvis

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:43:09 AM
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Look at the software...Cooking Mama? Warioware? Wii Music? Wii fit? I mean comon...Ben is merely saying that games are WAY TOO focused on reaching everyone, rather than balancing gamers and casual gamers equally. 1/10 wii games are catered to the regular gamers, and by that i mean ones who play 10+ a week.

What Ben was trying to say was that the PS3/360 was following the true trend. I know that most will argue with that, but its only natural that as technology gets bigger and better, games look bigger and better. look at all the leaps that games have made since Pong. Not once after the Atari did gaming feel so fake and flawed.

Nintendo to me just needed a trump card, and that controller is it. To me, the controller actually hinders gameplay...look at madden for example. that game is almost unplayable to me. And i think everyone i knew played SSBB with the gamecube controller, because the Wiimote wasn't too functional.

Stop saying the 360/PS3 are competing with the Wii. Did you see what been said about the advertisements? I understand that some of those stupid Wii games are fun for the moment, But out of all of the games, (not including classics like SSB and Mario Kart and a few others) can you honestly say they had replay value? I happen to be a Gamestop manager, and i can tell you that PS2 games get the most trades, quickly followed by Wii and DS games. Understandably so, considering how old the PS2 is.

I agree with you Troy, but I feel that most think the Wii is competing with them, only because they have the lead. Wii isnt future proof. They will probably go the way of the dinosaurs, or the tamagotchi toys for that matter.

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:08:53 AM

You're right. The ONLY reason I consider the Wii competition is because they're selling units. If the thing wasn't selling, I'd be in complete agreement with Ben. But it is. And from a BUSINESS standpoint, that can't be ignored.

And those Wii commercials are effective. The marketing for the Wii has been phenomenal. And it just makes sense. If I'm selling a video game, and there are 4 potential customers, 3 "casual" gamers, and 1 "hardcore" gamer...well, I'm going to make a product for these 3 people. You go make a product for the 1 guy left...and just ignore me. :)

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:49:36 AM

Troy,

Lamborghini and Ferrari are not in direct competition with Toyota.

-Arvis

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:56:05 AM
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The one thing I've noticed that most people who own a Wii, also own one of the other consoles. They know what the Wii is about. It's a fun little party gamer. You have a bunch of people over you play games on the Wii, it's an icebreaker. Little kids play Wii, Parents and Grandparents play Wii. Groups of people play Wii. But when they aren't around, you play the other system. I've always felt that Nintendo was never really in competition with Sony or MS anyways, even in the days of gamecube...it was always X-Box vs PS2.

Even though Nintendo started the whole video game craze rolling, they are kind of like a little brother now. Everyone has one, and you let it hang out with you once in awhile just to pick up chicks, but it doesn't really do anything else except entertain/annoy you from time to time. You're friends like hanging out with him too for a bit because they have somethign to laugh at. But when you're home alone, you only hang out with him once in awhile.

But if Wii makes games that can appeal to a mass audience, does that mean it's not a gamers console? Wouldn't anyone who plays games, technically be a gamer? It's just that they are a casual gamer as opposed to the more hardcore. Which as the sales records show, there is a big market for the casual gamer.
The casual gamer doesn't care about game reviews and internet forums. They don't care about having to master a game, or figure out the fighting sytems. They care that they have something fun to spend their money on that gives them a reason to have people over.

But I do have one question. If MS and Sony don't need to worry about competing with the Wii, why are they developing a Wii Mote knockoff controller to compete against it? Hmmm....

Last edited by CH1N00K on 12/5/2008 10:02:27 AM

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:16:32 AM

Also on the topic of a gamer, there is another group out there that is getting smaller everyday, who wouldn't consider us gamers, because we use a console...for them, a true gamer is still using a PC and consoles aren't a true gamers platform. Just something to think about...where do we draw the line? And why can't we all just get along? :D

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:29:27 AM
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People, no offense, but some of you need to read more closely.

At no point do I say that if you own a Wii, you're not a gamer. At no point do I say zero gamers own Wiis. All I SAID was that Nintendo and Sony/MS are catering to two very different demographics; one group are the gamers who have been gamers all their lives while the other group are people new to the fold. It's really that simple. The statistics are plain: the Wii hasn't sold 50+ million to GAMERS. We all know that's not true.

The point is that MS and Sony can focus on themselves, and not bother with what Nintendo is doing. That's all.

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:45:05 AM

I agree but again though, why are they bothering with the development of the Sixense controller? Doesn't that shift the focus?

They consider Nintendo enough of a threat to try and do something to compete.

For me it makes good sense, when people are ready to grow up from the Wii, they have a way they can ease themselves into a new system with a Wii style remote, and better graphics and games....Almost like the sixense is going to be designed to steal Nintendo's customer base.

Or I could be way off...

Last edited by CH1N00K on 12/5/2008 10:48:59 AM

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:54:47 AM

Ben, I didn't take offense at anything in your article or comment. I just have to respectfully disagree.

"The PS3 and 360 caters to gamers while the Wii caters to non-gamers."

I took that to mean Wii owners are non-gamers, instead of Nintendo is trying to bring non-gamers into the fold. Easy mistake to make. And it can still be read that way.

Either way, I think the attitude that Nintendo can be ignored is crazy. That's not business savvy. Any business model includes bringing new customers in. PSXExtreme would like to reach people who often turn to the internet for their Playstation news, but would also like to bring in readers who may be new to blogs, and rss feeds, and forums, etc. You always want your audience to grow. You want to find out why certain groups of people haven't adopted your product and remedy that. If there are only 25 million gamers in the world and you can MAKE 25 million more...by making a cheaper product...well, sir, you're a genius.

I don't think Sony and MS can take the position that they should focus on themselves and not bother with what Nintendo is doing. I think they should take the position that Nintendo made a major shift in gaming. That they just brought a lot of new consumers into the tank, and Sony and MS should be figuring out how they can get a piece of that. If they were non-gamers before, well, they're gamers now. And Sony and MS need to be disecting how Nintendo got into their wallets, so they can follow suit.

And another thing to think about: How long before the "casual" gamers outnumber the "hardcore/real" gamers...if they don't already? At a certain point the PS3s and 360s become a niche product instead of the status quo. I'm no business major, but I'd rather be Best Buy than Sharper Image.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:56:47 AM

Nope. The big difference is that the Sixense controller is merely an add-on gimmick, not the central focus gimmick. Nintendo uses it to sell their product; Sony is only going to use to try to steal a few casuals away from a Wii purchase by saying, "yeah, we got that too...but look how much MORE we have."

Like I said, I italicized "direct" in my article; of course it's all video game competition, but the Wii isn't in DIRECT competition with Sony and MS. I doubt any execs of the Big Three would say otherwise.

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:17:44 AM

Lol, Big Three, for a second there I thought you meant North American auto makers...funny how times have changed....

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:18:59 AM

CH1N00K, that's one way to look at it. Like Nintendo is making starter consoles and Sony and MS are making FULL consoles. And I guess that's what Ben means. But I think Sony is starting to see that their machine is capable of being both. And that's the smart thing in my eyes.

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LightShow
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:13:49 AM
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"hardcore syndrome"

meh.

I play Bass guitar the majority of the time; i'm a musician. There are people who spend most of their time building birdhouses, or skateboarding, or gardening. Is this bad? Is a hardcore gardener socially bereft or missing out on all life affords? We applaud those who spend all their time practicing and playing music, go to their concerts, buy their CDs. Skateboarders are treated similarly

The only reason hardcore gamers get stigmatised is because it hasn't been around as long as Music, or Gardening even. It's cast as "kid stuff", so those who game for the majority of their day must just be socially lacking.

Those who use lament about the "Hardcore Syndrome" and how it's ruining gaming are just thinly veiled ELITISTS.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:16:50 AM
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Troy: The casual gamers DO outnumber the hardcore...by a very large margin. Those who just come home from work and flip a Wii controller around in Wii Sports golf outnumber those who come home to play Gears 2 by about 3:1.

And that's exactly the point. Nintendo isn't "making" 25 million more gamers. They're not making GAMERS at all. They're just bringing more people into video interactive entertainment, which does NOT necessarily translate to MGS4. Saying Sony and MS should want a "piece" of the consumers flocking towards the Wii is the same as saying they want a piece of the consumers that are flocking towards the new Blackberry. Electronics and gadget buffs, yes. Gamers? No.

Again, though, I never said gamers can't or shouldn't own a Wii, and I never said gamers can't have fun with a Wii. I'm saying that in this generation, video games are at a certain level, as they are in each generation. The Wii clearly doesn't bother trying to reach this level, because it CAN'T. Hence, Nintendo tried something different, and the marketing campaigns scream one overriding message: "we're for the REST of you, not just gamers!" THAT'S what gets people to buy the thing.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/5/2008 11:17:41 AM

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:32:52 AM

Ahh, but if you can get them to come home and flip a PS3mote and play golf instead, you're winning the game. The thing is, the PS3 should be able to target BOTH groups, while the Wii can only target the lowest common denominator. My point is don't ignore them. They've obviously gotten something right. Beat them at their own game.

And, of course, Nintendo isn't making 25 million gamers. I was just trying to make a point. But, I wouldn't say they aren't making gamers at all. Not all of those will translate into MGS4, but I think a lot of them CAN translate into MGS4. The interest is there. It just needs to be cultivated. Wii needs to be seen as the gateway drug. Better yet, PS3 needs to replace the Wii as the gateway drug. Then there's even more of a chance of that casual gamer trying out MGS4, or at least downloading the demo.

My point is just this: You don't ignore something that is clearly successful. You adopt it and improve upon it. That goes with every single business out there.

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Cuetes
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:18:40 AM
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I'll say what every one wont, wii is just a cute little toy. I can find better games getting a SNES, or my kids leap frog learning center. I agree with ben, the only reason I even read this site is hes got the balls to speak strong and truthful words. The wii belongs in the 3 year old toys section along with dora and the rest of the hooked on phonics gang.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:18:56 AM
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Arvis quote: "Seriously, WHAT THE HELL are you playing on that thing?"

My question EXACTLY.

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Dingodial
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:20:50 AM
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Everyone that I know who has a Wii is ready to upgrade to a 360 or PS3. If it wasn't for the Sixense Wii would already be discontinued. Some of the Wii owners that I know are very educated on technology and they purchased a Wii just because they already own every other system and they're just console collectors. The other Wii owners that I know are either fat and need a work-out, or they just thought they were getting a bargain by purchasing a Wii for $250 vs. getting a PS3 for at least $400.

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:29:41 AM
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Cheers Ben, not to mention Nintendo themselves said they aren't in direct competition themselves. I have a question tho...if my little cousin who played a Wii himself about 5-10 times, who has never touched a video game before, and who doesn't own a system considered a gamer? He liked playing it each time, but doesn't really want to own one. He only plays when he's with a person who owns one

I see that some people have pointed out that just because Wii owners dont play much, or only play socially, makes them gamers. I want to know why you all think so?

The decision to make the Wii easily affordable is smart, but there is no way for the product to stick. Like someone said, how may Wii games will make the G.O.T.Y list? I want to know which would make the top 20! To me it seems like lots of developers are making average games in a sad effort to get alot of income from people who don't otherwise know the content of what they are buying.

It would be one thing if games on the Wii could appeal to some hardcore, and entry level consumers, but the lack of grade A titles are a huge shortcoming.

Bottom line, until the Wii can push for some original blockbuster titles, those cheap and simple games will all begin to get repetitive and find their way to the trade-in bargain bin in a local gamestop!

I mean comon, how many more mario games and legend of zelda games need to be made?!

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:33:00 AM
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@ lightShow

another thumbs-up homie

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baseballdude_ [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:33:08 AM
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"Furthermore, it's painfully obvious Nintendo isn't interested in producing impressive software; it's all about the gimmick and always has been."

You don't find the wii software impressive at all? I like the PS3 as much as anybody and definitely agree that the wii appeals to a different crowd, but to say that wii software is unimpressive and to say that the wii is not a competitor with the PS3 and 360 is very, very false in my opinion. Obviously wii graphics are at a lower quality, but the unique experience it brings makes up for that in most cases. This is coming from someone who prefers the PS3, btw.

The wii is taking those "non-gamer" customers away from the PS3 and 360. Take my dad for example - hadn't played video games in like 20 years...he all of a sudden decided he had to get a video game console and went with the 360 because my brother had one and they liked it. Later, my mom and him found out about the wii and got rid of the 360 for a wii. :\

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:35:14 PM

No, not in the least bit impressive. I've played the best of the best this generation, and there's nothing on the Wii that can even hold a candle to the likes MGS4, GTAIV, and the like. They're in completely different universes.

I'm not saying the Wii doesn't have any games people want to play, of course. That's obviously not the case. My point, and this ties into the article, is that in direct comparison, one has next-gen video games while another uses decade-old technology to assist a hardware gimmick.

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acsguitar
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:40:25 AM
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Meh us PC gamers have been laughing at our subordinates aka Ps2/Ps3, X360 for years now.

That aside my Wii doesn't really do much for me. Although World of Good, No More Hero's, RE4, Mario Galaxy are EXCELLENT games the massive amount of Shovelware and Animal Crossing like "Games" are really starting to annoy me.

As for having COD on the WII I personally think its pointless (as PC gamer) since I can play the realy version. However, I think the same thing about x360 and Ps3 since you can't use Mouse and Keyboard which is what FPS are designed to work with.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:39:03 PM

Meh, I've been laughing at PC elitists for the past five years. Stuck playing decade-old ports of the same three genres, refusing to innovate, and in the process, losing 90% of shelf space in GameStop and watching the console games dominate Game of the Year nominations and victories.

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Tatsujin
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:13:21 PM

"Mouse and Keyboard" I hear that a lot. Many people prefer different forms of controls. Let alone the fact that I don't have to spend so much money upgrading my PC because I get all my games for the PS3, I don't think that the "Mouse and Keyboard" are a factor at all.

This is like saying "I don't want to drive my Ferrari with the steering wheel because I like my tricycle handles a lot more"

Stop bringing up the Mouse and Keyboard, really buddy.. it's not a factor.

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:43:17 AM
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Yes baseballdude, the Wiimote is impressive, but how long will that last? When a handheld controller replaced the joystick, many thought it was a "New Era in Gaming". I guess that ain't true anymore. I mean how many baseball games do you need to play before the swinging motion becomes bland?

But I think Ben was saying the Wii software isnt impressive. I personally agree, with an exception of about 3-5 games. Are you telling me the Wii games more fun than playing god of war 2, or Gears of war 2? MGS4? Resistance? fable 2? Are you that content on flipping pancakes on cooking mama just because you are going through the motion?

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PS3_Wizard
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:47:27 AM
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@ acsquitar

"Meh us PC gamers have been laughing at our subordinates aka Ps2/Ps3, X360 for years now."

Well laugh away, seeing as how alot of games are being designed for the consoles then ported to the P.C later.

And ill be sure to laugh when i don't have to buy a new graphics card or other hardware to play the latest games. I'll just use the money to buy more games :D.

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:27:30 PM
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What if the Wii is just a test run? The Beta for the Wii 2 (Wii-Wii?) They did the last gen graphics and sold it for super cheap so that they could make the money to focus on the potential of the Wii-Mote. I'm wondering where Nintendo is going after this. The Wii could be this generations version of the NES. The NES got the masses interested in this thing called video games. Now the Wii is doing it again. With Nintendo's popularity starting to drop before the Wii, Nintendo re-wrote the book, now has a huge fan base, so if they build the next system with better graphics and better gameplay, won't the kids that are growing up on the Wii now, have a tendency to buy the next version? And stay with Nintendo until they have kids? At which point Nintendo will come out with another gimmick for those kids...lather, rinse, repeat....And the whole time Sony and MS are at each others throats.... While the two big dogs are scrapping, the little dog sneaks in and steals the bone.

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ronnano
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:32:45 PM
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Most people I know who has a wii are real-hardcore gamers. In my opinion a lot of ps3 owners are casual gamers. To me (and a lot of others) MGS and Halo are casual games. I have been a gamer for 25+ years and i remember when the ps1 started dominating the videogame market. It attracted a lot of new gamers who never had played or cared about video games before, with simplified but (for its time) cinematic games and realistic gfx. In our eyes (the original hardcore) this was the console for stupid sports idiots.
So its a matter of interpretation of the words 'hardcore' and 'casuals'. To me and a lot of others, you on this site (including the article writer) are the Playstation casuals. Who have made our gaming life miserable for the last 10+ years by more or less overtaking the games industry through sony's financial muscles.
In this ten years we only have had nintendo to fall back on to give us polished and imaginative real hardcore games.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:40:01 PM

...what the hell type of casual gamer spends the money on a PS3...? 'confused'

Sorry, but the Wii is THE casual console. Plain and simple.

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:49:22 PM

I was wondering the same thing, I've never met a casual gamer who would spend that kind of money on a PS3. I've met people who by it for the blu-ray though and the games for the kids..is this what he means?

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bustin98
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:13:05 PM

Isn't that what Sony did with the PS2? Most buyers (especially in Japan) bought it for a cheap DVD player. And look at GTA3 without the rose tinted glasses. Not going to say the game sucks, just that it is a quintesential casual game. Easy to pick up and play without having to devote hours at a time to do something. That is why the PS2 'won' the last gen.

What does Sony or MS have this time that compares? Nothing really. The developers just see a bar that needs to be raised. What about GTA4 you ask? If you played GTA3, you've played GTA6. Just like if you played Ocarina of Time, you've played Twilight Princess.

And this is why Wii Sports and Wii Fit is the driving force behind the Wii. What game compares to Wii Sports? I'm at the point where I don't want to play it all the time, but I'm glad I have it and it is entertaining. At the same time, Wii Sports 2 will not be as popular as the other games of its kind.

It seems though that most people here are writing off the Wii because of a lack of quality software, like Nintendo can tell every developer what to do. Well, I'm sure they'd like to, but it seems to be an overcorrection of the previous generations lack of software. What percentage of PS2 titles are crap, do you think? Probably more than you know.

I agree though that the Wii is lacking in a steady stream of compelling software. But doesn't anyone find something to look forward to next year? Can you truly write off Mad World, The Conduit, and House of the Dead Grindhouse that easily? Ok, The Conduit does face comparitive titles on the other systems. But as a tech demo, it really drives home the point that 3rd parties are not trying and phoning in their efforts.

Anyway. I'm sure teh hardcore crowd isn't into the investment of a Wii, but a gamer is a gamer is a gamer, no matter the system. If you're a gamer, there are reasons to own a Wii, even if its a few months down the road.

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:38:26 PM

I don't think when the PS2 first came out that most people bought it as a cheap DVD player. It was still pretty pricey when it first launched. I disagree with you regarding GTA as a casual game. Not many casual gamers will invest that amount of time into beating the game. The "casual gamer" that does invest that amount of time, will beat it and put it away. The Hardcore will look for that 100% finished mark. And a lot of casual gamers shy away from the "controversial" mature rated games...

As for Nintendo telling people what to do, yeah, they can. People are developing games to try and sell on their system with their controllers, I'm sure they have a certain amount of control.

And the PS2 won (and in a sense is still winning) thanks to RPG's and the vast amount of games. Isn't there something like over 2000 games for that thing now? Yeah a lot of them were probably crap. But at least you had a huge selection of crap to chose from. :D

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bustin98
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:34:44 PM

GTA not casual? You think the majority of people who bought that game beat it? I know quite a few people who bought GTA3 and then proceeded to just drive around doing the stunts and what ever. Or at least their activities degraded into that behavior.

Being 'in the know' I believe we're trapped in our own little world, unable to really grasp what outsiders see when they look in. Why you would think that over 100 million people bought a PS2 for RPGs is beyond my reckoning. You couldn't even name a single RPG that sold a quarter of that number.

And in Japan, the PS2 was a cheap DVD player, compared to what was available on the market at that time. Here in the US, it may not, or it may have been. I know I didn't have a DVD player at the time.

Its ok that the PS2 can have a lot of crap to choose from, but the Wii gets frowned on for it?

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CH1N00K
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 6:48:46 PM

Maybe it's because the Wii hasn't developed a large enough selection of crap to chose from yet. :D

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Daedusian
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:24:32 PM

The way I see it, the PS2 had A LOT of great games but also a fair amount of crap, only because, like you said, it had 2000 games. It's kind of obvious.

BUT with the Wii, you have what like 5 great must have titles. Think of it this way. PS2 has say 10 great titles for every 20 games. That's 50% of solid titles and 50% of garbage. Now the Wii has 10 great titles to every 50 games. You do the math.

Now I'm only talking about the hardcore because well frankly, I hate casual games which is why I hate the Wii, so I will not bash on the casual games too much that others may find fun.

And no, just because you've been playing games since they were practically invented does not make make you a hardcore gamer. Times have changed dramatically. The games from the past are history and the Wii is just way overdue and outdated imho.

Last edited by Daedusian on 12/5/2008 9:30:46 PM

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Vivi_Gamer
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:53:00 PM
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I ignored Nintendo ever since they went 3d, the PS1 blew it out of the water! it had a better game than the N64 for every genre and to this day is still my favourite console. The only games that intruiged me on the gamecube were remakes adn dreamcast re-releases. & as for the Wii ........ the Wii is for non serious who just want to kill time, there games appeal to them loseres who waste time on internet website games, lol i remember watching those guys in solitude in the ICT room every lunchtime at school, god it was sad.

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alex 88
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 12:54:56 PM
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Boy, do you have a narrow mind. Of course the Wii is in direct competition with Sony and Xbox. Stop thinking about specs because the answer is money and whether you like it or not Nintendo is bringing in buckets of cash. Don’t you think Microsoft or Sony want some of that.

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 1:51:41 PM

Wrong. Lamborghini and Ferrari are not in direct competition with Toyota.

-Arvis

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 2:02:32 PM

Lambo and Ferrari actually MAKE money from the cars they sell. I think Sony still loses money on every PS3 sold. Bad comparison.

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Dingodial
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 4:10:11 PM

@ alex 88:
Nintendo may be selling over 500 thousand Wiis a month but do the math. 500,000 x 250 = $125,000,000. 250,000 x 400 = 100,000,000.

On average, they make 25 million dollars more a month than sony (in terms of console money). But consider this. Nintendo only makes game consoles and games but Sony not only makes those 2 things but Sony also makes TVs, computers, cell phones, MP3 players, TV shows and movies (columbia pictures).

Nintendo makes more money in video games but since that is their only specialty Sony makes more money overall because of the wide variety of things they make.

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 2:08:31 PM
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Another thing to think about: Some very popular games (I'm thinking Buzz and Rock Band 2) could have easily been popular Wii games with toned down graphics. Games that don't really need the processing power and hd resolution to be fantastic games. They appeal to the casual gamer. And I think Sony wants that casual gamer market just as bad as Nintendo. They'd be fools not to. They just got too "hardcore" on us. But, now, they're trying to go back and pick up those casual gamers. That's the advantage of having the extra horses under the hood. You can satisfy both camps.

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tehsage
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 2:24:02 PM
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The funny thing here is that this article is on PSXExtreme. LOL

Well, what can I say? You /hardcore/ gamers can't stand it when your ManBox360 or ManStation3 isn't winning. Seriously, everyone of you needs to grow up. I bet all of you play Call of Duty or Halo or Gears of War and think you're a badass gamer, don't you? I have a PS3, 360, and a Wii. Number of 360 games: 3, Number of PS3 games: 3, Number of Wii games: 30.

You really hate how Nintendo is winning, don't you? You find it necessary to say "Oh, the Wii isn't the same as the PS360." Every 360 commercial I've seen has them advertising family games. I've never seen a PS3 commercial.

In short, the author of this article is an immature little kid who needs his Xbox 360/PS3 so he'll be all manly.

8D

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Troy Powers
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 2:46:53 PM

You spelled "The Sage" wrong.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:20:39 PM

Been playing games since before you were born, kid.

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LightShow
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:20:27 PM

shoot, IVE been playing games since before you were born...

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aphex
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:37:40 PM
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Edited by Ben PSXE: Added message- Waste of space, and get out.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/5/2008 8:19:28 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:18:11 PM

Again, to repeat...get out.

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bustin98
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:45:47 PM
Reply

All of this talk of 'casual' and 'hardcore', I think is bullshit. Some of you get it, but most don't.

My wife, doesn't like the games I like, but she can be hardcore Animal Crossing. Its takes some serious time investment to get everything out of that game.

Meanwhile, I'm casual with Halo 3. I don't have many gamerpoints, and I like to pop into a online match for a half hour or hour every now and again. I'm not looking to dedicate several hours to the game in one sitting.

Do you spend hours at time, every day playing games? If so, congrats, you're hardcore. But you play shooters online and contribute to online forums. Now you've moved on from hardcore and on to fanboy. Now you spend more time in gaming forums bitching about non-games than playing games? You are now delusional. Which is what I am. :D

Last edited by bustin98 on 12/5/2008 3:46:15 PM

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ThatDude
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 3:47:58 PM
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There's a lot of unfortunate bias (who would've thought that from PSXextreme, eh?) and misinformation in this rant of yours, which others have pointed out already, so I'll leave it at that. I agree, though, that the Wii is not a DIRECT competitor (as it's not merely focusing on making graphics as realistic as the others), but it is a competitor, and if Sony/MS ignored Nintendo (which it's obvious they are certainly NOT doing), it would be to their detriment.

Pff. Fanboys.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:17:21 PM

Yeah, fanboys suck.

...any time you can point out the "misinformation," I'll be happy to read it.

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Fabi
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 4:02:34 PM
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@bustin - Haha, that's me! Well I don't get on forums to bitch, just mostly read while I'm at work doing nothing. But anyway, I consider myself a hardcore gamer, but games take back seat to most things in my life.

I keep up with gaming news, and pick my games wisely when I buy them, and when I do, I pre-order them and get them on day one. I don't usually sit down for more than 45 mins at a time to play a game, unless it's really good and I have a free day.

I get upset at people who spend more than a few hours a day playing games, especially online ones. Because I know some people that don't have those privilages, and I have a few friends who are throwing their lives away by playing all day long.

I have a friend who spends 4+ a day on MGO, and it pisses me off. Games aren't supposed to be your life, they're supposed to add to it.

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Papa Burgundy
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 4:32:08 PM
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Nintendo lost me when they made the gamecube and there were about 4 good hardcore games I enjoyed, I'm stickin with my ps3 and 360. I dont even acknowledge the wii as a gaming system, it's more like a toy you get in a happymeal.

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cherryskittles
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 4:59:03 PM
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Sony certainly is ahead of them in some respects, I have to give it up for Microsoft and Nintendo's support of indie games.

evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu0N9tZoUFc

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bamf
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 5:23:11 PM
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It goes to show the Wii isn't for gamers when the hardcore faithful hold back in getting a Wii.

When I see these TV ads for console games, when it comes to PS3 and 360 they show the latest line of software thats either just come out or is out in a week or so. The Wii ads we see are still for MArio Kart, Wii Sports and other old games that came out over a year ago, same for DS with its braintraining and Super Mario ads. Its because the Wii has no new games to show.

With all the software companies they're all making their money on the PS3 and 360. If it was only the Wii console on the market, the future would look grim for the industry. Yes Nintendo would make plenty of money selling the console, but publishers wouldn't and would lose money. I imagine as a game developer you would be someone who would want to programme games on one of the most advanced hardware out there instead of wasting your talents on hardware that is way outdated.

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Joe_III
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 5:33:35 PM
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they can't ignore nintendo when its used to put out videos like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1eymg949sg&eurl=http://kotaku.com/5103159/playboy-hosts-a-rayman-raving-rabbids-tv-party-party

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Arvis
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 6:42:39 PM

No, it is.

Multiplats on the Wii are garbage.

No More Heroes really really really REALLY isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Mad World looks stupid as heck.

Brawl is pretty hardcore. And I'd say Mario Kart and Fire Emblem are hardcore. But that's about it. And you can play all three with a GameCube controller. Who the heck wants to spend $250 for a GameCube with wi-fi?

-Arvis

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karneli lll
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 6:37:45 PM
Reply

Ben,forget the chaps who seem offended by the article. if someone has the time to sign up just throw incoherent thoughts around, then we ignore them (like the occasional xbot). The only reason the wii is selling is coz its cheap (Well that and the family ads nintendo throws around), if the ps3 cost $250 trust me, everyone would have one

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dveisalive
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 6:55:25 PM
Reply

Well guys I have an Wii and PS3 and you should know which one gets more playing time LOL! but i rather would use a wiimote like controller than use dual control sticks. If the Ps3 had a wiimote like controller then that would take the dam stress of pressing the dam L3 button over and over to run, i mean who doesnt get cramps in their hands, when using the Ps3 controller? If you dont, then your a liar! anyways COD WAW for Wii is not that bad, it is basically the same game, just it doesnt have vehicles and etc..... but it is a matter of time before everyone who has Wii's get PS3's and not 360's for I believe that Wii might be victorious in sells for this generation of consoles but PS3 is eventually going to be right there in the end, and I mean why would people go to 360 when the PS3 is the better buy! I mean common your going to upgrade to Death Rings, when U can get the best buy with a system thats going to last 10-15 yrs!

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Tatsujin
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:53:24 PM

Actually... I find the Playstation controllers the most comfortable controllers made. At least for me. They fit into my hands PURRRRfectly.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:31:07 PM
Reply

For those who feel the unfortunate need to compare Wii software to PS3 and 360 software, I leave you all with this. According to the average review scores taken by all major gaming sites at GameRankings (feel free to do this with Metacritic or ANY source, if you like), here are my findings:

Total # of games over 90%:

PlayStation 3: 13
Xbox 360: 21
Wii: 7 (including 2 PS2 remakes in Okami and RE4)

# of games in 2008 over 90%:

PlayStation 3: 9
Xbox 360: 8
Wii: 3 (Okami included)

Total # of games over 80%:

PlayStation 3: 92
Xbox 360: 139
Wii: 47

# of games in 2008 over 80%:

PlayStation 3: 50
Xbox 360: 52
Wii: 33

Oh yes. The Wii is ALL about the games. What's the next excuse? Reviewers are clueless? Yeah, it says something when we don't even NEED the Wii to determine the Game of the Year awards in 2008. I'm sick of this. The software ISN'T there and it WON'T be there because Nintendo continues to bank on the GIMMICK. I'm done.

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Tatsujin
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:52:03 PM

Lol Ben... Don't even sweat it. I am sure everyone knows exactly how much the Wii lacks in software, even the Wii Fanboys.

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Daedusian
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:39:12 PM

hahaha! great find.

Seriously tho, these naysayers will soon find out for sure how much Nintendo is lacking this gen. And let's hope it's soon because some of the crap they spewed in the comments were very embarrassing. I mean, I got chills reading some of them LOL.

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 1:17:59 AM

Dayaaamn!!! What did the hand say to the face Slaaaap!!!
Ben threw it down. Case-closed. Bye-bye.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 1:59:13 AM

You really brought out the nuts again Ben, what kind of loser signs up to a site just to make a worthless post anyhow?

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Chaotic Jake
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 8:58:41 PM
Reply

For those of you who keep arguing about just how well off the PS3/360 are compared to the Wii, just stop once more and consider...

Why is the Wii always gone?

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LightShow
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:21:32 PM

cuz nintendo doesn't want to step up production when it doesn't have to.

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 1:21:12 AM

Umm. "Blue is the new red" (Chaotic Jake changes shirt) "Look I'm cool cuz I look like everyone"

Sales are a lame way to defend yourself and shows how ignorant you are to make your own decisions. BURNED

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 12/6/2008 1:21:56 AM

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Tatsujin
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:06:37 PM
Reply

Ok, I see that a lot of the Wii lovers come in here and back it up with all there might! And also, in the process, throw a lot of meaningless shit towards the PSX community. To the Wii fanboys, that are here.. right now, let me ask you a few questions. Answer them truthfully.

1) How many games do you play on the Wii? Not the same game over and over agian.
2) What "Breakthroughs" has the Wii encountered, other than being Nintendos first big hit sense SNES and NES?
3) Have you ever seen any video game magazine compare the Wii with either the X360 or the PS3?
4) On average, how many hours do you play on the Wii a week? (Guarantee no where over 2 hours if anything)

And I shall leave you with a few statements...
If your Wii is gathering dust, it does not make it an amazing system, in fact.. it makes it the shitties system ever made.
Fighting for the Wii makes you as stupid as the Wii, because it's obvious you have no backbone. No, the Wii has no backbone.
Ripping on the PSX community for telling the flat out truth just increases everyone's belief on how pathetic the Wii and it's fanboys are.
And... To be honest.. my 7 year old sister can't even stand the Wii. She is always on LittleBigPlanet... I think that right there is a big sign coming from a little kid.

Now, state your arguments (If you have any)

P.S. Arguments that you pull straight out of your ass does not count, so just stick it straight back in there.

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LCF
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:11:01 PM
Reply

Suppose I'll put my 2 cents worth.Not only are the consoles should be designed for the gamer but also the game designers.Do you think a game designer would want to make game/story on a limited and under powered system? Nintendo all time best games came from its 1st and 2nd party companies.Cross platform titles are dummy downed ver. of the orginal that are from 3rd parties and most of the shovelware on the wii is to make a quick buck.Which IMO Nintendo should not allow cause I think this could hurt the industry in the long run,but the flipside It's good to see Nintendo making a profit considering it was in a deep hole with the gamecube.Nintendo saved the gaming industry from total collapse from the Atari days (I know I was there lol) But I think Nintendo has so much money they dont know what to do with themselves and don't want to make any radical changes to stay on top.

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Rocktastico
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 9:54:56 PM
Reply

Ok, first thing is first, seems like there's a lot of sheep here. That's as degrading as I will get.

Now for the actual addition to the situation. I am the owner of only one console, and it is a Wii. I would also like to mention, I would like to get another, but monetarily this isn't a possibility. I understand the wii's strengthes and weaknesses, but Nintendo has done a better job on the wii than Microsoft has on 360 or Sony has on the PS3.

Make sure you read that right, "Nintendo has done a better job on the wii than Microsoft has on 360 or Sony has on the PS3."

Don't misinterpret that as the Wii is better than the 360 or the PS3, that isn't true at all. I just want to take a look at the list of titles that were mentioned in the actual article.

"MGS4, GTAIV, Gears of War 2, Fallout 3, Dead Space, LittleBigPlanet, etc.?"

Now I'm not sure about all of these, but I believe the respective development houses are: Konami, Take Two, Epic, Bethesda, EA, and Sony?(or a second-party thereof?).

If we were to compare first and second-party titles, I believe Wii would win quite handily between SMG, Zelda, Brawl, Kart, Metriod, Fire Emblem etc.

Now, who is to blame regarding the lack of titles on the Wii? is it Nintendo? Are we right to blame Nintendo for only putting out the above mentioned titles and more in the span of 2 years, when no other single company has ever come out of a launch so strong?

The real issue is with third parties, which is the only place I feel the wii suffers. What does the wii have to do better though? What are the requirements on the proverbial checklist to get a game on a platform?

Supporting Console Manufacturer? Check.
Install Base? Super Check.
Fans Expressing Interest? Check.

So what is preventing them? Perception that no one will buy quality games? I am sure there are enough wii-only and multi-console "hardcore" gamers to make a title profitable so long as its a worthwhile experience, but no third parties have put in even a 5th of the development time they have on their HD brethren.

Maybe the reason they aren't being made is the perception that Nintendo consoles are bought only for nintendo games, but the fact is, what's the last third party game worth buying? Is Nintendo to be blamed for consistently having high quality? Is the reason why no third parties are making because they assume they need to cater to Nintendo's new audience?

The basic fact is, 360 and PS3 are where they are only because of the third-party support, and by now they could very well be buried if it weren't for the lack of it on wii.

PS: I find it funny that you thought RE4 was a PS2 remake.

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NoSmokingBandit
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 10:14:46 PM
Reply

I have a wii and i cant compare it to my ps3. It would be like comparing my oven to the doorbell. They both have different goals and they both achieve them brilliantly.
The ps3 can do things the wii cant, and vise-versa, because they arent even trying to do the same thing.
However, the ps3 can do things the 360 cant because its a powerful beast ;)

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 4:06:11 AM

Assuming the Oven is the Ps3 cuz it rocks out the munchies while the doorbell can get annoying...

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slayerkillemall
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:00:40 PM
Reply

i agree with ben the wii is a gimmick a good one though because it got poeple of all ages who other wise would not care about games having fun, also is a good system for kids and old fashioned 2d veterans who have not played games in some years.
but to compare it to ps3 or 360 is like comparing apples and oranges, wii does not in any way compete with ps3/360 but is exactly the oposite once those people play wii and get bored will look at gaming stores and see the likes of 360/ps3 will probably buy one or both.
so wii is actually helping sony/micro sell more.

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Chaotic Jake
Friday, December 05, 2008 @ 11:31:08 PM
Reply

Back at ya, Rocktastico! Like I had said earlier, you can ridicule Nintendo games all you want, but it's NEVER the console that makes the games, it's the companies. How about you stop and consider the likeness that SquareEnix has only bestowed the Wii with cheap hand-me-down knockoffs of their previous knockoffs such as Chocobo Dungeon. And Rare? They've already pawned off Banjo Kazooie. What's to say they don't opp Star Fox and Donkey Kong to X-Box? Sure they are core Nintendo characters, but Rare owns the primary rights to both of them! Perhaps if these companies would get their heads out of their arses with the whole 'Graphics are everything' card, they'd actually port their better titles over to Nintendo, rather than leaving them to float on their own core games like Metroid, Mario, Link, Kirby (silent for years), and others.

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dveisalive
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 12:29:33 AM
Reply

OK When was the last Console that was the most powerful victorious? that's all, basically its not because of fanboyism etc... it is because of price and so on. I didn't mean to make people made on here. I was just giving an opinion and just telling the truth basically. I have always had a Nintendo (age 7) and Playstation (age 12) system til now-a-days! To call me a fanboy you got it wrong, but you can call me a Japanese console only fanboy! For they have been nothing but just straight fire for years and more years to come! and for you Microsoft guys just stick to computers for 360 just rips people off PERIOD!

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Tatsujin
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 12:41:13 AM

EVERYONE in here is getting off topic. The point that Ben was trying to throw at us was that the Wii has VERY FEW grade A games, and especially for it's sales (Over 22 Million) It dosn't have the software to straighten itself. It has some games, but for the games that are out on the Wii very few of them are classified as "Must-Haves"
So technically yes... it is a gimmick because Nintendo is pushing jack sh** to deliver on the software. At least Sony is making an attempt (And it's showing us a hell a' job) and the X360 already showed us what it got (I'm not saying there is no more for MS's system) but again, it all ties in straight back to the software and sales.

The Nintendo sells too good, and yet has too little of class A software to bring out its full shine. Ben is 110% right. It is a gimmick, unless they start showing the world they care about their customers and they WANT the software for the Wii... it's JUST a gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less and really... there is no point in arguing, because it's the truth and EVERYONE knows it. Just admit it.

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Tatsujin
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 12:42:00 AM

I didn't mean to reply to you Dveis. This was to everyone as a whole :P

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 4:10:53 AM

Microsoft cant even make good software...Vista bogs down even what should be decent computers...

Sony makes good quality, higher tier stuff. I want immersion and high intensity games. Flexible, NOT A ONE TRICK PONY.

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 12/6/2008 4:11:27 AM

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Chaotic Jake
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 1:50:43 AM
Reply

I don't know if Tatsujin even bothered to read any of these responses, but allow me to illiterate once again... Nintendo has been cranking out more high-praising titles than any other company! Regrettably, these other companies such as Atlas, Ubisoft, EA, Valve, SquareEnix, and so forth would rather choose graphics over all else and simply bypass the Wii altogether. All that is left to ask is "Why?".

Because graphics are all you self-proclaimed 'die-hard gamers' believe are what makes the game. It's human nature. Take one man fresh out of high school and one with an associate's degree and put them up for application for, say, Microsoft. Just by criteria, you'd say the college graduate would be the better choice. Now, let's factor in that the younger man was the jock of the school; varsity football quarterback, and all-around handsome-looking man. The college student, on the other hand, put far more focus on his bookwork and never bothered to keep up with fashion trends and, to say, he's not very kempt with his physical appearance.

Oh, how quickly do the tables turn with sharp eyes, a stunning smile, and muscles like a professional athlete. Who cares whether or not he even knows ANYTHING about the job he is striving to attain? He could be as dumb as a brick. So long as he can read from a cue card, people will flock just to oogle him and do whatever it is he says. Why else does Axe deodorant sell so well? Because they have hot, bodacious, big-breasted women dry-humping any man who so much as squeezes the nozzle of an Axe deodorant product. And if such gorgeous women say they love it, where can you go wrong?

By the way, can you illiterate what you mean by a 'gimmick'? Because the drift I'm catching from you is anything that does not involve the game directly, such as stylish controls, peripherals, and extra content. Then what's up with the Playstation home? Internet? Netflix? Downloadable movies and television shows? Instant messenger and chat? Wouldn't that make these items in turn gimmicks as well? And what about Rock Band and Guitar Hero. They, too, utilize these so-called gimmicks that you seem so intent to bash, and, bare in mind, they thrive FAR MORE on the PS3/360 than on the Wii (due to the surpassed extra downloadable songs that the Wii is unable to store).

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 4:13:33 AM

Illiterate is not being able to read or write...and you can do that-FOREVER!!!

I think what your were looking for was reiterate. ;)

MGS4-Great Graphics, Great Story, Emotional, Compelling and Unforgettable

Name one Wii game that can deliver all that

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 12/6/2008 4:19:50 AM

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Chaotic Jake
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 11:37:33 AM

Tales of Symphonia. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

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Rock
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 8:00:49 PM

Lol, you compare Tales of Symphonia to MGS4?

Although its a great game, it can't compare to MGS4. Sorry but you must have not played MGS4.

And we aren't graphic whores, MGS1 MGS2 and MGS3 don't look as good as MGS4, but they're still just as awesome. Even ToS can't compete with the old MGS'.

The only other game that can stand up to MGS4's presentation right now is Uncharted: Drake's Fortune.

By the way, the Wii doesn't have an Associate's Degree, it's only in elementary. The PS3 and 360's are the college graduates. But the PS3 is the one with the smarts, the looks, AND the fitness. ^_^

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 11:09:32 PM

"Because graphics are all you self-proclaimed 'die-hard gamers' believe are what makes the game."

This, right here, is why the Wii fanboys are idiots. They actually BELIEVE this.

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Saber1989
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 2:04:18 AM
Reply

WHOA! is all I have to say about reading all these comments, enjoyable though I never seen Ben get so upset lol made my day lol

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Zorigo
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 6:49:10 AM
Reply

I knew that from time ago, Wii isn't against MS and Sony, it's its own thing. And it has crap for games, it wold entertain my sister, but not me.

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Rocktastico
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 8:41:43 AM
Reply

The only reason the wii has no games is because third parties made it that way. It's still the console with the biggest install base and best first party games. If the wii got legitmate versions of third party games there wouldn't even be this discussion.

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Chaotic Jake
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 11:49:37 AM
Reply

You know what? I'm done with this forum. It's plainly obvious that third party supporters are what make the other companies excel beyond the Wii. Even the title I mentioned is Namco, not Nintendo. And for the Wage SLAVES, MGS4 was designed and created by KONAMI!!! Did Sony get involved in its creation? Maybe a nudge like every other console corporation does, but its not their own work. And you wonder why Nintendo is so busy making so many different and awkward games. Perhaps because they're doing all they can to compensate for the lack of third party games. Heck, they've pumped out FAR more games than Sony and Microsoft COMBINED! (as corporations, excluding third parties) So before you go asking as to the quality of standard Nintendo games today, consider: can they really take their time with their titles when every minute they waste is another that Sony and Microsoft are sitting around, waiting around for their loyal third-party companies to make the hits for them?

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Rock
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 8:02:30 PM

Third parties support the DS over the PSP, but why don't they support the Wii over 360/PS3?

Because the Wii is just a gimmick.

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Rock
Saturday, December 06, 2008 @ 8:02:34 PM

Third parties support the DS over the PSP, but why don't they support the Wii over 360/PS3?

Because the Wii is just a gimmick.

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dveisalive
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 3:48:17 AM
Reply

I was just joking LOL! but if you grew up playing Nintendo or say it like this when you had your fisrt game/toy/cartoobn you always protect it no matter what for it was your first! But Nintendo does make me mad they have f-ing friend codes WTF! and no HD jut 480p! when it comes to graphics ill take PS3 any day!

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dveisalive
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 3:54:08 AM
Reply

To be honest also I wish their was one console and that would be a PS3 with a Wiimote like cotroller with 1:1 function case close LOL!

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slayerkillemall
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 4:18:01 AM
Reply

quote chaotic jake "You know what? I'm done with this forum."

thats the smartest thing you've said all week...

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slayerkillemall
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 4:47:43 AM
Reply

i have been playing games since i was 10 years old (i was born in cuba and came when i was 10 in 90')

i still own the original 90' gameboy which came with tetris, then bought a couple like metroid,
turtles,etc it still works but its in black and white and frustating for today standards.

i used to be a loyal nintendo fan (never liked sega or its games) until n64 when i played zelda 3d i felt cheated by nintendo...
then sony came out with playstation and i never looked back....

i only bought a gamecube to play resident evil 4 and even though i enjoyed the game and many others i bought afterwards i had a hard time with the controller...

and personally the only reason i'm considering
buying a wii is so my 6 year old neice can play with her friends and "we" as family can play together because thats what nintendo is always been about..."family"

but for me personally it would just be a "novelty" item to download classic games like zelda a link to the past which was my favorite
but other than that it would be a waste of $250
which could be better used for something else..
like a 360 which im afraid to buy and loose my money to the 3 rings of death...

Last edited by slayerkillemall on 12/7/2008 4:56:45 AM

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slayerkillemall
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 9:40:11 AM
Reply

funny stuff, i was surfing through youtube and came across this vidio of call of duty gameplay on the wii the setup looks good, but there is something with the picture,the graphics look worse than call of duty 2 big red one on the ps2. check it out .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM3D84rIIu8

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LilKronic420
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 10:04:02 AM
Reply

I own both a ps3 and a Wii, i would NEVER buy an xbox!!! I know the wii doesnt even come close to the ps3 or xbox but it is still for gamers. When my fingers and hands get sore from too much ps3 i like to turn on the wii and have a game of bowling or golf, I have Shaun White snowboarding for both the wii and ps3. On the ps3 you use a controler for everything, on the wii (if you have the ballance board) it is almost like snowboarding for real. Tiger woods golf for the wii is a much more relistic game than on ps3 or xbox. If you enjoy pounding on a controller get an xbox or ps3, if you want to feel like your "in the game" get a wii. Ps3 is still and always will be my #1

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LilKronic420
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 10:09:35 AM
Reply

A 2nd gen wii with blueray is a must for Nintendo if they EVER want to compete with Ps3 and xbox. just imagine if the wii was on the same kind of operating system as the ps3 or xbox with blueray it could take over. The graffix on the wii are not good at all!

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slayerkillemall
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 10:19:45 AM
Reply

nintendo would need an entire new hardware platform in order to compete with sony
blu-ray would also be needed.

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Blaiyan
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 10:58:05 AM
Reply

I don't care about the wii and have no problem with nintendo but if I were your council I would've told you not to waste time responding to their cries. Who cares what they think? Nobody values their opinion or takes them seriously but them.

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Chaotic Jake
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 4:56:18 PM
Reply

You people talk about how graphics are not everything, yet that's all you can talk about. "The Wii sucks because of its graphics and lack of blue-ray." What are you, hypocrites? (No offense to those whose points are beyond this trivial factor.)

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Wage SLAVES
Monday, December 08, 2008 @ 7:04:36 AM

SPEAKING OF HYPOCRITES: "You know what? I'm done with this forum."-Chaotic Jake

Thank you for destroying your credibility...just GO before you hurt yourself..

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, December 08, 2008 @ 8:33:41 PM

We're talking about GAMES, fanboy. I just listed the GAMES. Let's talk about the GAMES.

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wiiplay
Sunday, December 07, 2008 @ 6:31:44 PM
Reply

I personally love Nintendo!
But I love the PS3/360 way more!
Also, I have a small question, Ben, have you ever considered of making a wiki?
PSXE Wiki would be very cool! So we can add our own news and stuff.

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PaiNT_kinG
Monday, December 08, 2008 @ 1:57:28 AM
Reply

and i thought the gamecube(which i own) has bad game libraries!

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Dante399
Monday, December 08, 2008 @ 3:36:37 AM
Reply

I hate the Wii, that old fossil!!! It's never meant for hardcore gamers! What is there on the Wii except Zelda? I'd gladly buy any console for that game but seriously What else is there?
Monster Hunter 3 is going to be on the fossil. If it is exclusive I'll buy the damned thing.
I just wonder how will the graphics be on my 40in FHDTV?......crappy as HELL!

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Dingodial
Monday, December 08, 2008 @ 1:12:47 PM
Reply

What the funny thing is is that the Wii came out after PS3 and X360 YET the Wii is already a fossil = >

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Arkhon
Tuesday, December 09, 2008 @ 3:39:55 PM
Reply

I was thinking about getting a Nintendo Revolution back when it had a reasonable name, but thankfully decided on the Xbox 360 instead after doing some research similar to Ben's post about the Metacritic ratings. I have three friends that all hated their Wiis. Two got Xbox's and one got a PS3, and now the Wiis have assumed foolproof disguises as doorstops. Everything about the Wii is inferior to the other two consoles except for party games, which I personally give less than one sh*t about.

Nintendo's WFC was designed by a bunch of drunk hamsters. Friend codes are some of the most retarded things I have ever heard of, making it almost impossible to actually play online with your friends. The Wii can't play DVDs to my knowledge, even though the Sony PS2 could TEN YEARS AGO. Seriously, why buy the Wii when you can get 300% more computing power and 200% more games for 30% more money?

Also, Wii fanboys cannot hide behind "we like fun more than graphics", because Halo 3 and MGS4 not only beat everything on the Wii, they burst straight through its chest and rip out its groin with their blood-caked talons. The only approximate game on the Wii is the new Metroid game, which is worse than Halo 3 and MGS4 on every conceivable level.

Also, Wii fanboys cannot hide behind the fact that the Wii sells more, thereby making it the better console. Applying that sort of logic elsewhere, Toyota makes better cars than Ferrari, Internet Explorer is the best web browser, McDonald's makes better food than a five-star restaurant, etcetera ad absurdum. Majority does not make right, or else Socrates would not have been executed, for example.

As for you, Chaotic Jake, you wouldn't know proper logic if it befriended you, betrayed you, then shot you in the kidneys and left you to slowly exsanguinate in the harsh frozen wastes of Siberia like the dumbass you are.

I found this page via a link and have never owned any console except the Xbox 360, but am saving the money to buy a PS3. Just so you don't call me an Xbot.

Last edited by Arkhon on 12/9/2008 4:02:40 PM

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Rocktastico
Tuesday, December 09, 2008 @ 7:12:55 PM
Reply

I still want to see someone logically refute my point. Everyone is shouting the triumphs of Sony and Microsoft but they haven't done nearly as much for their console as Nintendo has. The wii has a larger install base and is cheaper/easier to develop for, and if it wasn't for third parties being too scared to develop against Nintendo first party efforts then the Wii would be right on par in terms of the experience.

Blaming Nintendo for horrible third party is largely not fair, because they have developed more grade A hardcore content than either of the other manufacturers. The only (albeit still somewhat shaky) points I would say that Nintendo failed with in terms of games is they made money on their crappy casual games. Apparently this means everyone only wants those on the wii, and we're onto this slippery slope now, but can you really blame a company for making money?

Also, the fact that the wii is underpowered really makes sense. When only 30% of the TV owning population has a HDTV does it really make sense to gear your console only towards that? The purpose of the wii is to max out the SDTV gaming experience while it is still the average TV. The only downside is that no other companies have helped, but a Nintendo-only console looks better than any Sony-only or Microsoft-only console ever would.

Last edited by Rocktastico on 12/9/2008 7:16:03 PM

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Arkhon
Wednesday, December 10, 2008 @ 3:24:00 PM

Nintendo has alienated third-party developers with their family-oriented nature and incredibly inferior hardware. I admit that Nintendo has innovated with the Wiimote, but I would rather play fun games with a gamepad than crappy ones with a Wiimote.

Developers prefer to have more computing power to work with. If I'm writing a novel, I don't want to be confined to twelve pages and monosyllabic words to tell the story, I want to be allowed to use my vocabulary in its entirety and not squish all the content in so that it can be read by eight-year-olds. It doesn't really matter why Nintendo doesn't have third party support anyway. All that matters is that they do.

I will admit that Nintendo has developed more core games than Microsoft or Sony, but Microsoft is a game publisher, not a developer, and the same goes for Sony. Microsoft has published many grade A hardcore games such as Halo 3, Fable 2, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Project Gotham Racing 4, etc. I don't blame Nintendo for making money, but I do blame them for doing so by shitting on their fan base and instead targeting everyone else.

I play my Xbox 360 on a crappy 18-inch TV. Its graphics still beat the living daylights out of my friend's Wii. Definition is not the only component of graphics. You also need to consider polygons, framerate, etc. Assassin's Creed on my 18-inch TV is about twenty times better looking than Super Smash Bros. Brawl or Super Mario Galaxy. I have downloaded Xbox LIVE Arcade games that have better graphics than the Wii games do. The Xbox 360 and PS3 are not geared solely towards HDTV, but the fact that they have HD capability for the 30% that have HDTVs is one of the many reasons why they are better than the Wii. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Last edited by Arkhon on 12/10/2008 3:32:22 PM

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