GoWIII Team: PS3 SPUs Faster Than "Many Developers Think"
God of War IIIBy now, you would figure that most developers have discovered much of the PlayStation 3's potent capability, but SCEA says that many designers haven't quite grasped the system's potential just yet.
As reported by GameZine, the team responsible for God of War III says the PS3's SPUs are "much faster than many developers think they are." Sony Santa Monica team members Jim Tilander and Vassily Filippov gave a keynote at last month's GDC entitled, "Practical SPU Programming," and the audience learned a great deal about the technical specifics surrounding Sony's machine. During the speech, they explained how the SPUs "aren't actually coprocessors but are full general purpose processors that can handle code directly lifted from the PPU." And, oh yeah, they're extremely fast. As it turns out, the studio used these very capable SPUs to "accelerate both the PlayStation 3's GPU (RSX) and the PPU." Basically, if GoWIII turns out to be as incredible as we all hope it will be, you're going to have to thank the SPUs, which clearly handle a great deal of the workload. In the end, the team asked developers to recognize the "parallel nature" of Sony's console, and not to view the SPUs as a "special case."
Speed is everything. The PS3 allows developers to do things with a console they've never been able to do before, but it takes some effort and dedication to tap into the majority of the machine's power. We say, keep pluggin' away.
Related Game(s): God of War III
4/7/2009 Ben Dutka
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Comments (54 posts)
GHill4Life
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:38:35 PM
Here's hoping GoW III lives up to the trailers. Should be a lot of fun.
1 up, 3 down
Highlander
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:46:49 PM
The PS3 memory architecture is different from the 360, not less advanced. 360 is a unified memory architecture, which is simply another way of saying that you have no dedicated video memory and steal what you need from main memory. PS3 segregates the memory into Video and system. There is an advantage, inherent in this, the available bandwidth to memory in the 360 is limited to the system bus, because main memory is shared with the GPU, but in PS3 the segregated memory means that RSX can hit video memory at full speed, at the same time as the Cell is hammering the XDR system RAM, which results in a far higher theoretical bandwidth. That XDR RAM that PS3 uses is also a good deal faster than the memory used by the 360.
The downside of the PS3 scheme is that you only ever have 256MB of system memory that is shared between the OS (XMB) and games. On the other hand, you know absolutely that you will always have 256MB of video memory, and you know that you will always have 256 (minus XMB footprint) for your game. You don't have to shuffle things around in order to free up memory for the GPU. In a unified memory scheme, a game running with a high resolution and color depth along with all it's textures and other GPU resident data will chew up more memory leaving less available for the game.
As with most differences between PS3 and 360, the PS3 is not less advanced, it has a different design philosophy.
Yes, I am a geek. I apologize. ;-)
Last edited by Highlander on 4/7/2009 1:48:19 PM
19 up, 0 down
www
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 2:34:42 PM
It's not a bad thing,i like ya type, since i don't really know jack sh** about tech.
Last edited by www on 4/7/2009 2:35:02 PM
4 up, 0 down
chaosrunner
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 3:44:51 PM
A good friend of mine was in both game and chip development for a long time and I think she could take a lesson from you on how to explain complex technical issues to people who, while not oblivious, are at least not hard core techies.
0 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:08:37 PM
8 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 @ 9:34:58 AM
I think the original idea was to go with two Cells and no GPU - Cell is actually designed to run in multi-processor configurations. However the RSX contains some specialist graphics and sound functionality that would otherwise have had to be done in software, so in the end, it kind of works out.
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HeXeN
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:08:27 PM
Reply
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BTNwarrior
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 2:42:39 PM
0 up, 0 down
Banky A
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 @ 12:28:25 AM
It show Kratos in normal 3rd person atop a Cyclops.
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Dridion
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 @ 3:18:33 AM
0 up, 0 down
englishgolfer
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:08:59 PM
Reply
4 up, 0 down
slugga_status
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:10:32 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:29:52 PM
Reply
I'm always disappointed when one of the luminaries of game development, be it Carmack or Newell comes along and makes some glib statements dismissing the Cell in particular and PS3 architecture in general. These guys should be at the front of the line clamoring for the opportunity to make the thing sing, but curiously they seem to prefer worrying about the relative sales numbers of different consoles in order to make their development choice.
The SPEs (SPUs) on the cell are terrifically quick RISC processors in their own right, they are highly optimized for single precision floating point calculations, and they have their own local memory which runs at the same clock speed as the processor. In other words each SPU is a computer on a chip running at 3.2GHz with 256KB of RAM running also at 3.2GHz. Considering that there are seven of these plus the PPU on the Cell, that's a hell of a lot of compute power.
Just for fun, do some searching on the most recent iteration of Cell technology. The SPUs have been further optimized for double precision floating point and are several times faster than they were in the version PS3 uses. Should Sony ever build a PS4, they would be well advised to sign up for the Cell for that Box as the road map for Cell has a chip with 4 PPUs and 32 SPUs. Considering the performance gains already made through existing enhancements, that generation of Cell will be terrifyingly fast.
12 up, 0 down
ps92117
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 2:33:23 PM
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 2:49:43 PM
IBM continues to enhance the Cell BE (Broadband Engine) as used in the PS3 by shrinking it to smaller process technology, first from 90nm to 65nm and then to 45nm. Each shrink increases the % of 'good' Cells produced per wafer, as well as reducing the power consumption of the chip. So they get cheaper and cooler.
As well as this IBM has another series based on the Cell design that they use in their High Performance super computers. This has been enhanced both in terms of process technology as well as design updates to improve specific performance or add specific functionality.
IBM's roadmap goes to 32nm next, but we should have at least a couple of years at 45nm before the 32nm process is ready to go.
We can expect that the Cell processor in four years will be a 32nm chip running at least 3.2GHz with major enhancements to the design and many more PPU and SPE cores on the chip.
8 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:13:49 PM
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 5:05:16 PM
IIRC the loss to Sony per PS3 sold is less than $50 right now, mostly this is a direct result of cheaper blue laser diodes (for BluRay) and the smaller RSX and Cell chips.
5 up, 0 down
infekt
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 10:44:43 PM
Last edited by infekt on 4/7/2009 10:45:10 PM
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 11:44:40 PM
LOL, thanks. I appreciate the thought. Sadly my employer would probably be a tad unhappy if I spent any more time than I do already writing online. My job involves a tremendous amount of waiting for databases to do their work, so I can take 5-10 minutes here and there all day long to browse and comment.
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Fenrir
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 @ 7:18:44 AM
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dveisalive
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:48:40 PM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
www
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 2:42:20 PM
0 up, 0 down
karneli lll
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 1:56:13 PM
Reply
What we're seeing now is the fear subsiding,
1 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:15:46 PM
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/7/2009 4:16:11 PM
3 up, 0 down
www
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 2:46:15 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:18:26 PM
1 up, 0 down
NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 2:49:47 PM
Reply
Theres a phrase musicians often use: "Only a terrible musician blames his instrument."
7 up, 0 down
englishgolfer
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 3:54:57 PM
funny.... that's what my wife says to me.
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JofaMang
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 7:49:01 PM
;)
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jdt1981
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 3:54:23 PM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
xnonsuchx
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 @ 12:47:56 AM
0 up, 0 down
Robochic
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:06:12 PM
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1 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:22:13 PM
Reply
All I can say for certain is that I can't wait to put the smackdown on Zeus and giggle to myself privately when magazines, sites, and journalists try very very hard to malign GoWIII in their reviews: "Oh look there's a texture that isn't absolutely perfect! Knock a point off the score!"
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/7/2009 4:23:27 PM
5 up, 0 down
LegendaryWolfeh
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:54:25 PM
1 up, 0 down
Alienange
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 6:52:59 PM
Last edited by Alienange on 4/7/2009 6:53:21 PM
2 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 11:49:01 PM
The hacks will have the knive out for GoWIII when it arrives, mark my words, som crappy little publication will give it 60% just to cripple the Metacritic score.
2 up, 0 down
Ultimate_Balla
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 4:40:05 PM
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SnipeySnake
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 5:00:29 PM
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3 up, 0 down
godsman
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 6:11:27 PM
3 up, 0 down
Qwarktast1c
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 5:13:42 PM
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3 up, 0 down
RadioHeader
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 5:40:24 PM
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I obviously still can't comment on even a semi-intelligent level, but I almost feel like I nearly came close to learning something that day.
2 up, 0 down
Jian2069
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 6:05:40 PM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
Alienange
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 6:57:37 PM
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1 up, 0 down
txgamer
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 7:18:36 PM
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alphaneuron
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 9:11:45 PM
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@Highlander
It is exciting to hear about a 4 PPU, 32 SPU cell processor. I wonder how much it would cost, whether they could possibly bring the cost down to consumer levels.
One possibility I've wondered about is a "PS3 computer". We know it's already possible to use the PS3 as a full-fledged computer running Linux, albeit a little limited because of the low memory. (Adequate for a game console but not quite for a general purpose computer.) How about taking that 32 SPU processor, adding a few gigs of *cheap* memory and making a fully fledged PC out of it? I can think of several advantages.
First, combining the kind of sales achieved by game consoles and PCs would allow huge economies of scale and cost reductions.
Second, it would create the sort of developer synergy currently enjoyed by the 360 and the PC. Devs might have an irresistible reason to invest in the platform and its programming paradigms.
Third, it might make inroads into new markets and demographics. There are a lot of people who would pay $800 for a good PC but not $400 for a good game console. Those people would now have a machine that's BOTH a game console and a PC. You then have a colossal install base. Sony already has an understanding of the PC business.
In fact, I just had a brainwave: what if the recent merger of the PS3 and PC divisions in Sony is a strategic move leading to the PS3 computer? :D One can dream.
Of course, there are disadvantages, too. The "game console" branding would be affected. This would also be viewed as a major competitive move by companies like intel and Microsoft, which have a huge stake in the PC market. So they might gang up to try to take down Sony (but Sony'd have IBM on its side).
3 up, 0 down
slackernz
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 @ 4:17:58 AM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
slackernz
Wednesday, April 08, 2009 @ 4:17:58 AM
Reply
Last edited by slackernz on 4/8/2009 4:18:25 AM
1 up, 0 down
Nynja
Reply
Tuesday, April 07, 2009 @ 12:49:07 PM
Really curious how they handle the parallel processing with the SPUs and boost the GPU capabilities. I heard that GG did the same thing for Killzone 2.