PS3 News: Valve Makes It Plain: We Can't Handle The PlayStation 3 - PS3 News

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Valve Makes It Plain: We Can't Handle The PlayStation 3

For a while, there was some talk about Left 4 Dead coming to the PlayStation 3, but developer Valve is well known for their dislike of and aversion to Sony's machine.

Now, early on, developers did indeed have a problem with the PS3 (as they do with every new PlayStation). But since that time, we've seen some pretty amazing productions that have arguably outstripped that of anything on the Xbox 360 (Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, Killzone 2), and third-party developers have finally come to terms with the console. But Valve simply isn't interested in "coming to terms;" said game designer Tom Leonard to Loot Ninja:

"The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward. We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform. [...] I didn’t come into this business in the 90s because of some technical fetish. I came in because I wanted to give people experiences that made them have fun."

Okay, we're just going to call BS right here and now. Sorry, we're aware this is a news story, but it's based upon personal opinion so we believe we're entitled. You know what the preceding is? A lot of words for the statement, "We're lazy." And on a personal note, I have never been all that impressed with what Valve has done; one or two good games every 73 years doesn't make you a prolific developer, and as much as I want to play Left 4 Dead, I've got other - and potentially better - options. And you know what? Most of 'em are on the PS3.

So you know what, Valve? We don't care. Just keep trying to convince all the other talented developers in the world that you're something special when you're the only so-called "legendary" studio that can't seem to get a handle on the PS3. We're just bored, so we'll leave you back in 1998 where you belong.

6/9/2009 Ben Dutka

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Comments (185 posts)

Victor321
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:10:56 PM
Reply

Nicely Said. There's always gotta one black sheep in the happy flock of white ones.

I also wasn't implying racism. Sorry if anyone took it that way.

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KING313
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:34:34 PM

ur cool dude, if anyone thought that was racist then they're an idiot.

Last edited by KING313 on 6/9/2009 10:34:46 PM

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infekt
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:17:52 AM

Fatness stuns the growth of memory cells therefore decreasing intelligence. So does being underweight. But lets just focus on the "larger" problem here shall we?

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Kempy21
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:46:43 AM

i agree and left for dead 2 looks identical to left for dead they haven't changed anything.

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Victor321
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:52:36 AM

@ KING313, Thanks =D

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Bo0mKiiD
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:15:25 PM
Reply

Wow, Ben went off...

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Victor321
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:17:45 PM

Lol, not everyone can keep their cool, they just gotta let it out once in a while, and he probably just had a stressful day.

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Xra897
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:21:14 PM

indeed

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fluffer nutter
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:38:01 PM

Since when is calling someone lazy "going off"? It sounds like a pile to me. It can't be that difficult to make games that run on the PS3 architecture if we've got some really cheesy, movie-based games that happen to be put out on every platform. I mean, think about it. Time is money so no one is going to just throw something out there if they don't think it's decent to at least a group of people. You are raised at home to learn how to think and socialize. Then, you go to school to get educated in the arts and sciences, all the while learning how to formulate, follow processes and build plans. If you've got your head on straight, then you can do it. Stop being lazy, people. Have some pride in your work.

Okay, I went off track but I get disgusted when I hear or see people showing that they just don't care or take pride in their work. I'm not attacking anyone directly. I just get disgusted.

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Jojoman
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:25:45 AM

No. He was just telling it like it is.

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cLoudou
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:16:43 AM

Snap!

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napoleon85
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:21:45 PM
Reply

That's an awkward attitude, specially if it comes from a video game developer. I wonder what this mediocre company is going to do when the next xbox720 or whatever comes out. Are they gonna be that lazy? The game industry keeps getting more competitive every day. Sorry Valve but that attitude isn't going to take you very far in the future.

Last edited by napoleon85 on 6/9/2009 10:26:29 PM

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SarahPalinMILF
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:46:18 PM

I was given an XBox360 for a gift once...I use it to hold my toilet paper on in the bathroom...for once the toilet paper is on the piece of sh** instead of vice versa...

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Victor321
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:52:01 AM

Lmao very nice SarahPalin!

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MarvelZombies
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:09:22 AM

the person who thumb-downed those comments is probably an XBot

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G-WiZ199
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:39:43 PM
Reply

I used to be a huge Valve fan; Counter-Strike is still one of my all time favorite PC shooters. But their statements are just pure idiotic. If they just tried pushing the limits of their resources, they wouldnt have over 15,000 L4D fans boycotting L4D2.

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:44:10 PM

More than half of those people will buy LFD2.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:39:02 AM

Agree that they'll buy it as well. As will I.

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ThugNificent101
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:40:12 PM
Reply

i remember when left 4 dead came out. a friend of mine got it and i was really excited to play it because it looked so fun! and it really was fun, but it got old to me within a few hours of play. Theres no denying that the game is good, but since i got the chance to play it after such an urge to do so, i havent even wanted to pick the game up again.

kind of dissapointing since i had such high expectations for it.

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Juanalf
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:40:26 PM
Reply

Seriously Gabe Newell is what I call a lazy @sshole;He claimed to be one of the best when in reality he doesn't deserve to be in the same room with the likes of Hideo kojima or John Carmack (both btw have praised the PS3).He and his company can do whatever they want, the PS3 doesn't really need their support at all.

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ThugNificent101
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:43:34 PM
Reply

i remember when left 4 dead came out. a friend of mine got it and i was really excited to play it because it looked so fun! and it really was fun, but it got old to me within a few hours of play. Theres no denying that the game is good, but since i got the chance to play it after such an urge to do so, i havent even wanted to pick the game up again.

kind of dissapointing since i had such high expectations for it.

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Nighthawk
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:44:24 PM
Reply

Laziness has nothing to do with it: it's economics.

Valve has been developing the rendering engine on which L4D is based since 2000 (actually earlier, if you want to get *really* technical). To essentially rewrite the entire thing from scratch to get the PS3 compatibility (having seen parts of the source myself, I can assure you it is VERY incompatible with the PS2/PS3 framework) at this point is simply not a reality.

It would take hundreds of thousands of hours to do it. Valve would rather be building the user experience, spending that time on making a great game, than simply reinventing what they already have and not moving forward.

To be honest, I don't blame them.

Last edited by Nighthawk on 6/9/2009 10:46:35 PM

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oldmike
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:47:48 PM

so left for dead is useing outdated tech and you are there suporter????

also i i have yet to see one of there games that says you must have me shooters are as common as hell

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KevinCairo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:50:55 PM

@Nighthawk

That may be true, but that doesn't excuse them from creating other titles for PS3 as well. Theyre not just saying no to L4D; they're saying no to anything for PS3.

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sticklife
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:16:24 PM

so why not not just lead with the ps3?

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cegmp
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:47:44 PM

Why is nighthawk getting down voted? His arguments are reasonable.

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King James
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:24:16 AM

Well said Nighthawk. you know you my boy, but I still think the ppl at Valve are M$ tools.

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:40:25 AM

I agree with this thought process. There are people who have been working with PC code for a long time and just feel at home with that experience. We complain about bad ports anyway. I think we can live without Valve. I may very well be biased because I do not own a PleaseFixMe. I can assure you that my life isn't gimped because Valve doesn't make the games I play.

Whenever the next XBox is release, the same architecture should still be in place dev-wise so they'll be okay on the PC and XB platforms. The thing I don't understand is using the same engine for 10 years... they don't expect the same kind of gameplay to become worn out over time? I even need to retire some articles of clothing after a few years. If they are concerned with the Gamer's Experience, why not create something innovative? People shelled out $250 for a Wii-Wii because they thought they were getting something new. The people have clearly shown they feel different = fun.

He really could've said something different and not sounded as foolish as he came off. I understand what he is saying but his mindset will cost Valve many of their fanbase that have short attention spans and don't want to play the same basic game for 10+ years.

On another note, doesn't his statements remind you of the stigma placed upon XB users that they just play FPSs? Way to respect your customer-base!

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NightHawk17
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:36:46 PM

I leave for awhile and someone takes my name-_-

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oldmike
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:44:52 PM
Reply

some time i wonder if MS still pays them a lot of cash and they SAY there 3ed party just to not get the anti MS hate

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Karosso
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:51:03 PM
Reply

They are still running the same engine from Half Life 2 that came out like a hundred years ago...
You look at HL2 and L4D and I can't see much of a difference, while the real developers are way ahead of them.
Infinity Ward is quality wise, twice the company Valve is and has pumped one amazing game after another. At a fast and alarming rate I must say...
Some how if L4D is the best they can do, I don't feel that bad. Its not like we are missing much.

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Nighthawk
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:55:21 PM
Reply

"so left for dead is useing outdated tech and you are there suporter????"

You don't understand what I'm saying.

The engine that L4D runs on, Valve's Source Engine, has been in continual development since well before Half-Life 2 came out; I saw a demo of it at the Valve offices in Seattle in 2000 or 2001.

And anyone who's familiar with the engine can attest that it's certainly not "outdated tech"; it's surpassed the 800lb gorillas that were id Software (Quake series of engines) and Epic (Unreal Engine) and became one of the most praised engine on the market for a while (now rendering engines are a dime a dozen; that industry isn't what it use to be).

They've continually, over the past eight or nine years, been making the engine top notch and the best it can possibly be.

So now you expect them to re-do several years worth of work just so you can play it on the PS3? Uh... No.

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oldmike
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:02:27 PM

and yet it dose not look as good as many games out there
that and there head is a MS fanboy?

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Alienange
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:05:04 PM

No no of course not. By all means, keep it on the Commodore64.

Do yo understand what I'M saying?

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somethingrandom
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:01:44 AM

If you don't like the looks, buy it on PC and crank the settings...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:39:40 AM

Nighthawk, I get what you're saying, but there IS the possibility of trying something they HAVEN'T used for many years. No one's saying they should change what they do; I'm only asking they adapt.

And they choose not to.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:18:48 AM

Nighthawk,

you bring up a very good argument, and I don't know the tech behind these games, so you're all right as far as I'm concerned. But if all other developers can embrace the PS3 architecture and create incredible games, why not Valve?

Instead of asking them to change their engine, why not copy their current engine and adapt the copy to PS3 architecture? I know this will take a long time and probably cost a fair amount of money, but I'm sure they will begin pumping out incredible games once they learn the PS3 architecturre inside and out like most developers recently have done.

Imagine what they could do with their Half Life Engine if they apply it using the same vision as Hideo Kojima with MGS4!!!

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bamf
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:09:40 PM

Why not license an engine like many have with the Unreal Engine 3?

How much longer can you push the same engine with modifications. Its probably time to create a new engine from the ground up now, like many other developers do.

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Wage SLAVES
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:41:33 PM

In the end Ben is right. They are just LAZY; its not like they're not gonna get reimbursed from it...

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Nestore
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:56:29 PM
Reply

Hey, Insomniac and Sucker Punch are independents that prefer Sony, Valve is an independent that prefers Microsoft. Neither of them are lazy or dumb.

Most devs have strong favorites on those kinds of issues.

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oldmike
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:00:15 PM

i was under the idea that they were 2ed party
IE they are not under sony but sony still pays them

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Highlander
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:03:33 PM

I don't remember either Insomnia or Sucker punch coming out and repeatedly flaming the Xbox architecture and saying it's crap, or too hard. So, there's not really a comparison there is there? Valve may have a preference for a specific architecture, but that doesn't justify the unprofessional comments they make.

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Juanalf
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:04:24 PM

Insomniac and Sucker Punch have never came out and said that the 360 is too complicated they just like developing for Sony.Valve in the other hand continues saying that the PS3 is too difficult for them which is the real reason why everyone is calling them lazy.

Last edited by Juanalf on 6/9/2009 11:07:34 PM

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napoleon85
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:08:01 PM

You are right, but valve's statement lacks professionalism. Specially when there are other ways to say things. Let's hope Valve will do good enough (economically speaking) so they won't have to regret their statements one day.

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Zeppo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:27:48 PM

@TheHighlander

Insomniac and sucker punch do like to come out and say that the 360 couldn't keep up with their games though. So I guess that what we should take from this is that valve is working on "remedial" developing while other companies are moving forward to better things.

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Highlander
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:55:53 AM

@Zeppo,

That's a good point, however, saying that the 360 couldn't manage some of the tricks that they pull on the PS3 isn't quite in the same ballpark as the kinds of comments we see from Valve personnel.

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Nestore
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:17:24 AM

Agreed: Valve *has* made some really obnoxious comments (and apologized for some of them) and bashed the PS3, while the Insomniac and Sucker Punch guys are much more polite and gracious about their dev platform preference.

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Highlander
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:02:08 PM
Reply

What a total cop out.

Either these guys are admitting that they are lazy, or simply incapable of coping with a system architecture that lots of other developers apparently have a fine time with. Ar Valve lazy, or incapable, you decide. Remember this is Gabe Newell were talking about here... I made my selection...not the one you probably are thinking I'd pick either. I think they're simply incapable. Gabe Newell has had a problem with PS3 since it first arrived, and declared as much early on. But in the end his personal statements and those by others with Valve amount to little more than whining . It's not a matter of tech fetish, if you're a competent programmer, the platform doesn't really matter, you adapt your method to the language and system architecture. What is it they say about a poor workman and his tools...?

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Karosso
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:03:30 PM
Reply

The only thing bigger than Gabe's ego is his midriff :-)

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Karosso
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:06:48 PM
Reply

Well, I understand their point... they are a PC developer using a 9 year old PC engine, it makes the outdated OptpleX360 the perfect choice :-)

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:07:48 PM
Reply

Valve is a joke

Never bought a game from them, shows how legendary they are.

Heck I never even HEARD 'bout Valve 'till a few years ago.

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:46:05 PM

You clearly aren't a knowledgeable gamer.

That's like being a "fan" of the NBA and never having heard about the LA Lakers.

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Scarecrow
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:06:38 AM

Valve = PC gaming

I'm a console gamer

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:15:18 AM

I apologize, I didn't mean to come off like a jerk. I've enjoyed reading your previous comments on the site. I can understand a console gamer not knowing about Valve since they are mainly on the PC side of things.

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Alienange
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:08:18 PM
Reply

Of course if Valve did make L4D on the PS3 they'd have 34 thousand people complaining about L4D2 so maybe it's a good thing.

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Cpt_Geez
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:09:05 PM
Reply

Valve is effin pathetic lmao II will never buy a game from them.

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Deleted User
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:13:09 PM
Reply

A F*ckin Men!

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Kevadu
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:15:47 PM
Reply

Jeez, so much hate...

Halflife redefined the single player first person shooter experience. Counterstrike redefined the multiplayer shooter experience. Then they did it again with Halflife 2 and Team Fortress 2. Portal was one of the most creative, innovative, and fun games I have ever played on any platform.

To try and trivialize everything this company has done just because they don't want to develop for your favorite platform is ridiculous. Valve is considered legendary for a reason. And don't forget that Halflife was their first game! They haven't even been around that long and yet the impact they have had has been tremendous.

I don't really care for Left 4 Dead either but that's personal preference. A lot of people do seem to like it. Let's stick to the news instead of making inane anyone-who-doesn't-make-games-for-the-PS3-must-be-lazy-and-incompetent statements. As Nestore said above, every developer has their preferences.

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Reccaman18
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:25:36 PM

They basically said it was too hard to develop for. Not because they dont like the PS3.

Last edited by Reccaman18 on 6/9/2009 11:25:50 PM

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Juanalf
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:39:12 PM

Then they should shut up or say something different or better yet say nothing.Ever since the PS3 came out they(especially Gage)have continue and continue to say that it's too hard for them and that the system should be scraped.No one is doubting their past games like half-life and others which they're all great but that's all in the past now.I can't think of any other "legendary" developers that would moan so much about a hardware being too difficult to work with.

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:40:49 PM

Kevadu, I agree, L4D is fun to me though.

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jaybiv
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:59:24 AM

Halflife was ok. It was by no means a legendary game. I just want to thank Valve for saving me 120 boodles. I would have bought both L4Ds.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:46:27 AM

Half-Life redefined the shooter genre back when it was released. Valve has done a great job even if they are ignoring Sonys' console. I have no problem with that. There's no rule stating that every developer has to create programs for every system. And Left 4 Dead had been the most fun I've had with an online game in quite awhile.

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Karosso
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:16:18 PM
Reply

To be honest if they ever tried to come over to the PS3 side, they would have their a$$ handed to them... Insomniac alone has put out better shooters than their stuff...
I guess is more of a survival instinct kind of thing, they can't really play with the big boys on the PS3.

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:39:42 PM

You're insane, HalfLife2 is the best FPS of this decade and it's almost 5 years old.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:48:34 AM

Left 4 Dead would put up a pretty good fight. I loved the first Hal-Life but the second just seemed lacking to me in a way. Though I didn't play it until a few months ago so I've experienced better shooters since it was released. But I can see how it would easily have been at the top at that time.

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fame_in_game
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:20:31 PM
Reply

wow there games are so graphically outdated...
i was watchin my friend play L4D and i was like...WTF thts ugly as hell...i though i was playin halflife 2...and the game is like 5 hours long thts super lazy...
VALVE is a lil bitch...

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:53:47 PM

L4D was not meant to be graphically stunning, it was about blasting zombies. It is alot longer than 5 hours unless you do a speed run and ignore other game modes.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:50:17 AM

Exactly. You can say the same thing about Serious Sam. Sure the graphics might not be that great, but look at the hordes of enemies you had on the screen to shoot. Left 4 Dead is the same way.

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sticklife
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:21:17 PM
Reply

I just hope half life 2 episode 3 comes to the ps3. That's all i ask, I mean we got to play the first two and it would be mean to be like nope buy it on the pc. (my graphics card sucks)

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oldmike
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:32:06 PM

with how there games look and the talk there still useing the same core code dont worry your PC will run it

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:38:54 PM

You can get a decent card that will allow you to run Episode3 in medium/high levels for the price of a PS3 game.

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Highlander
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:00:22 AM

That same card cost $300 six months ago though, and now it's nearly obsolete. Which is why gaming on PCs will always be an expensive hobby.

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somethingrandom
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 6:06:49 PM

Just because a card has a superior predecessor every 18 months doen't mean it can't still play every game available. My 9800GTX has been out for more than 1 year but can still run any new game.

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Reccaman18
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:23:28 PM
Reply

You know what? Valve can cry me a freakin' river. This is one reason I have no respect for them. If its so difficult for the almighty Valve, then how come EA, 2K, Namco, and others can make games identical for the PS3 AND the 360?

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:38:13 PM

You sure they do?

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TroubleMaker
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:58:02 PM

"You sure they do?"
I don't understand what you mean by this statement....
You sure you even asked this question?
Are you Joshua360?

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:01:02 AM

I think my question was too the point. Most developers have a hard time making multi platform games that look the same, the PS3 has gained a reputation for being the lesser of the two. When it comes to 1st party entries the PS3 is number one. I'm not saying the PS3 is less powerful than the 360, simply that developers (including the ones he listed) don't do justice to the PS3 when it comes to multiplatform games.

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TroubleMaker
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:02:30 AM

Examples?

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:12:09 AM

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
BioShock
Madden


There are 3 well known games. The first 2 came out plenty of time after the 360 release and still suffered from fps issues and other issues.

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oldmike
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:28:01 AM

all but madden the PS3 copy is better
and there all 1st time PS3 games from there makers

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somethingrandom
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 6:10:51 PM

No, Oblivion had a lower framerate on PS3 than 360 because it was a port.

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:37:51 PM
Reply

Ben, I can understand you finding fault with Valve for not supporting the PS3 but they do produce some amazing games for other platforms. I honestly don't have a problem with them not supporting the PS3, there are plenty of other developers out there that will. Valve has always been a PC minded company and I don't see that changing. Odd to be reading this tonight having just spend over 3 hrs playing L4D and CSS with some friends on my PC.

PS. Not sure what you're implying with the 1998 comment.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:41:44 AM

You know what I'm implying, and it's true.

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Blood_Haze
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:47:09 PM
Reply

the only thing Valve has made that was good was Counter Strike Source & Team Fortress.

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:52:53 PM

...and HL, HL2, HL2-Ep1/2, Portal, TFC, L4D

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:31:51 PM

Hate to say it but Half Life wasn't so great.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:41:00 PM

Hate it to say it but your opinion is in the minority.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:55:21 AM

"Hate to say it but Half Life wasn't so great."

I guess that explains why it has sold so well, won many awards, and is one of the highest ranked shooters in history. Behind Half-Life.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:39:27 AM

Where'd the edit button go?

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Dustinwp
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:48:13 PM
Reply

God forbid Gabe and the Valve team have to take time away from eating cheetos to put games out on another platform. I find it odd that Valve is still supporting MS when they created Windows Live to compete with Steam.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 6/9/2009 11:55:35 PM

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somethingrandom
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:04:34 AM

In no way does Windows Live compete with Steam. Windows Live is centered around social networking. Steam is about playing games and maybe meeting up with friends to play those games. Plus there's the chat in-game with Steam.

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Dustinwp
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:48:06 AM

My bad, I thought I heard MS had a games download service. I'm a Steam user so, wasn't really sure what else was out there. Valve should get credit for Steam, but their games haven't been great lately and that includes L4D. L4D should have only had multiplayer that way I wouldn't have even bought it. I was quite ticked about the sorry excuse for the so called single player missions.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:57:13 AM

The single player mode was mainly so you could get accustomed to the game before going online.

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:51:31 PM
Reply

They are a little lazy, but there is absolutely NO NEED to flame them for it. They do make good games, they just prefer not to invest in PS3 development. I agree when he said the XBOX and PC are more straightforward to develop for. Ben, I think you went over the top on that one.

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LimitedVertigo
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:53:37 PM

FULLY AGREE

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somethingrandom
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:05:22 AM

THUMBS DOWN? Explain yourself...

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:13:00 AM

They are going to give anyone a thumbs down that disagrees with Ben or others viewpoints towards Valve.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:41:19 AM

Yeah? Besides anything Half-Life related and L4D, what have they done?

I go by a body of work. I look at great designers and developers from all over the world. The only reason Valve isn't working with the PS3 is because they choose not to put forward the effort. Oh, and they're biased towards consoles and always have been.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:53:28 AM

I agree they're biased towards consoles; what is wrong with that? They're a PC developer at heart, just like Blizzard. In regards to Valve not making dozen of games, what I do know is everything they've made has been A+ IMO and given me years of enjoyment. I'm still playing CS after 9 years of having it.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:01:53 AM

Blizzard used to develop console games but has since gone PC only yet nobody seems to badmouth them as much as Valve. And Blizzard isn't trying to make console games either.

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somethingrandom
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 6:15:47 PM

Play Portal and tell me it's lousy. Do it. I dare you. The only way you won't like it is if you aren't smart enough to figure it out.

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Superman915
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:10:11 AM
Reply

So this is why the Orange Box was such crap? If youre gonna make a L4D of THAT quality, dont bother.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:13:20 AM

Blame EA for the orange box.

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AntDC
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:23:25 PM

No, blame Valve for leaving it up to EA and not giving a sh** about it.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:39:56 PM

Actually they were far more invested in the PC product and trusted EA in bringing it to the PS3. EA failed and thus the PS3 is not getting Valve products. Not sure you realize it but a majority of PC developers outsource their games to different companies when putting that specific game on a console.

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AntDC
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 3:40:51 AM

And yet they developed it for the Xbox as well. I know the Xbox is more like PC architecture, but how can you justify the bellow-par port on that? They trusted EA? So why did they leave it up to EA? Oh, because Valve were to busy whining that the PS3 was to difficult to develop for. If they really cared about the quality of the port, they would have developed it along side EA, yet they chose to give it to them and not give a toss about it, consistently denying they had anything to do with it. A question to ask though would be who gives their franchise to another team and doesn't oversee its development at all, and couldn't care less how it turns out? Still think Valve aren't to blame? Heck, I'm not saying EA shouldn't shoulder some of the blame, I think they're both equally guilty, but surely Valve could've put more love into their product.

What a joke, we all know the REAL reason Valve aren't developing for the PS3, they said it themselves, it has nothing to do with EA failing, it has to do with Valve failing to learn how to deal with new architecture. "It's to hard." Fine, at least Valve's being honest, (or Microsoft pays them well) but they can't expect sympathy when they ship a rubbish port with THEIR respected name on it, EA developed or otherwise.

I do realise it, except a majority of the time the port doesn't suck, can't say the same thing for The Orange Box.

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King James
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:14:11 AM
Reply

Valve lost all my respect at the start of this generation. I have no problem with developers making (pseudo) exclusives for XBox360. Because I know that almost all of them end up on PC later (i.e. Bioshock, Halo, Mass Effect, etc). But to blast a company like Sony, that has had such a big impact on what gaming is today, is just ludicrous and quite frankly dumb.

Gabe Newell, this guy Tom Leonard, and all the rest of those Valve guys have a SERIOUS organization-wide culture problem. Victims of groupthink and selective perceptions. And it shows in their games.

Seriously ppl, name the last Valve game you played and you said something like, "Wow! This is so different from what they usually do. And its good."???? (And no, Portal does not count.)

Valve is a one-trick pony this gen. After Half-Life came, all of their following games have came from that Gmod software (based off the Half-Life engine) that USERS have created, including L4D. Just shooter after shooter. Switch it up Valve! Return to greatness, plz.

Companies like Bioware (Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Old Republic MMO), Blizzard (Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo), Rockstar (GTA, Max Payne, Midnight Club), Insomniac Games (Spyro the Dragon, Ratchet&Clack, Resistance), Naughty Dog (Crash Bandicoot, Jak&Daxter, Uncharted)....<Insert American Company that continues to try new things and succeed here> are examples of what game developers should be about. Making great games and following up with even better games by having the BALLS to try new things and bring in new ideas.

Valve is a group of tools. M$ tools at that. And won't last unless they make some changes. Why? The PS3 is 24 million strong as of last year. If you don't want that type of money, by all means be my guest. Now if you excuse my I'm gonna read some game reviews on Prototype. Hope they're good.

Last edited by King James on 6/10/2009 12:15:36 AM

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Fatcat3788
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:18:04 AM

Agreed...
Except for the Microsoft tools thing. They are just PC people who refuse to move forward from the once good engine that they made... Personally it is getting too stale for my taste.

Last edited by Fatcat3788 on 6/10/2009 12:27:00 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:21:39 AM

Wow...Blizzard?! I love Blizzard and I will certainly be picking up SC2 but you use them in an example of trying new things? Other than WOW (which I hate with a passion) every single game is the same not to mention any sequel feels like simply an expansion upon the existing formula.

Valve knows their niche and they continue to exploit it as they know best. They are one of the few developers I can trust when purchasing a product. I've NEVER bought a game made by Valve and been let down.

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King James
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:31:25 AM

@Vertigo

STARCRAFT 2 IS GONNA PWN ALL!!!

I respectfully disagree. Just because Diablo had a similar camera like StarCraft and WarCraft, doesn't mean that it wasn't different. It revoltionized the "dungeon-crawler". Come on, man. Give credit where it is due. Plus, their RTSs continued to bring new ideas and concepts to that genre that is widely used today. Valve hasn't innovated the shooter since Half-Life in my opinion.

Good observation on Valve's niche strategy. And I'm glad you support Valve. I expect ppl to. If their games were crap, we wouldn't be talking about them. So I guess you don't agree with my..."Great-developers-expand-outta-their-comfort-zone" statement?

P.S. Who giving you the thumps-down? I'm reading your comments. They're valid and legit facts/opinions.

@FatCat

It got stale for me after playing the Orange Box.

Last edited by King James on 6/10/2009 12:41:49 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:46:12 AM

King,

Agreed we differ in terms of a Developer needing to broaden its paintbrush.

You're damn right SC2 will be amazing, however I'm simply expecting updated graphics and a few new models. Blizzard actually reminds me of Valve, they take their time and better their franchises while still staying close to the original concept.

I understand L4D2 will be a break from this mold (only a year between) and it honestly does piss me off but I imagine as the Fall approaches I will cave in and purchase it. L4D has kept me and several friends up at night screaming like little kids for over 6 months.

If you're new to this site you'll quickly catch on to ignore the up/down thumb function since it's pointless.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/10/2009 12:47:01 AM

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King James
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:28:02 AM

Nope, not new to this site. Been here for...I think at least a year now. And no, I don't ignore > 3 thumbs down. Maybe 1 or 2 I'll ignore.

At least we agree to disagree. But I'll leave you with this...Name a developer that has only did one type of game and lasted more than 20 years.

Last edited by King James on 6/10/2009 1:38:24 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:37:10 AM

@King

I'm glad you can see my side as I can see yours. The thumbs down feature is misused. I try to ignore it :).

In regards to your question, I feel it's rather unfair. The game industry isn't old enough to make a sufficient analysis. I tell you what though give me 8.5 years and I will have your answer (I think you already know it).

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:24:39 AM

Novalogic has been around since '85 and have primarily have done nothing but the Delta Force series. Though not 20 years, Red Storm has been around for 13 and basically has done nothing but Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon. And they continue to thrive by just doing that. Firaxis is another that's been around about the same length and have basically just done the Civilization series since being formed and been real successful. Oddworld Inhabitants is another that's been around maybe 15 years and has done nothing but the Oddworld series. Though they have another game in the works now due to be released after the movie they're making. These are just a few examples of developers that have done mostly one series and survived pretty well. So Valve isn't the only one to do it.

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Fatcat3788
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:16:29 AM
Reply

Oh Valve... I take it they think this way about the people who want them to upgrade their engine as well. It seriously seems like they are just too lazy to take any challenge. But hey... If an old engine can keep making games that reviewers still score about 90 why make a new one? My point is... when was their last game that wasn't a FPS based on the Half life engine?

Oh and the fact that they only put two playable online levels on L4D and are now coming out with L4D2 kinda pisses me off. That seems like major milking people for money to me. (before I get all the PC players to yell at me I am refering to playing L4D on xBox)

Last edited by Fatcat3788 on 6/10/2009 12:24:12 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:23:10 AM

LOL, you're knocking Valve because they are great at a specific genre? I

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Fatcat3788
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:30:31 AM

You need to calm down LimitedVertigo... It's just an opinion bud. Disagree with it and move on. Oh and it you didn't really catch the point of the comment...

Last edited by Fatcat3788 on 6/10/2009 12:32:43 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:42:21 AM

I understand it's an opinion, it also is the equivalent of me saying "Michael Jordan is only great in Basketball".

See how someone could fall out of their chair with that statement?

You're clearly stretching for something to fault them for if you're bashing them for routinely making steller games of the same genre.

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Fatcat3788
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:53:58 AM

AGAIN I say you missed the point of the comment first posted. But I am done with this article now.

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Geobaldi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:27:08 AM

And with the content patch a month or two ago, all campaigns are available for online play as well as a new game mode so it's not just two maps.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:43:47 AM
Reply

LimitedVertigo: You've made your point. I would ask that you stop posting in this topic now.

There's no getting around the fact that outside of the HL universe and their special engine, Valve hasn't done much for the industry over the past few years, especially in this generation. And if they want to complain about the PS3 being "too complicated," while other designers spring past them and excel, that's fine. But I'm NOT going to applaud them for it.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:56:00 AM

I don't believe anyone asked you to applaud them for it. I can understand someone being upset with their choice of words regarding the PS3. I think a better choice of words would have been "The 360 is easier to port our PC products to". I'm just a very passionate Valve supporter and since I own a PS3 I'm giving my 2 cents on the topic at hand. Anyone that supports Valve owns a decent PC and understand where they're coming from. That's all I'm saying...

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Highlander
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:13:23 AM

@LV

I'm a computer scientist by education (old skool) and a programmer by trade. I'm not a games developer, but I've developed on a number of systems with various languages. Frankly, in my professional opinion, the attitude of the guys at Valve stinks. I don't care how passionate you are in regards to their games. Simply put, they are - by their own words - either lazy or incompetent. If they simply stated that PS3 wasn't part of their business plan, that's one thing, but to come out and make statements like the ones Gabe Newell has, or this nonsense "The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward. We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform" just confirms you're either lazy or incapable of handling the job. Talking about "obscure architectural decisions they (Sony) make with their platform" just comes across as ignorant and arrogant. Sorry, but I'm not sure why or how you can defend that.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:29:50 AM

@TheHighlander

I've admitted that their method of explaining the reasoning behind their absence in developing for the PS3 was in poor taste. However it is fully understood that the 360 is easier to port a PC game too then the PS3. Yes this does make Valve lazy in regards to console developing. But since they are a PC developer I don't consider their choices in the console market to be a big deal. I've fully supported them with my PC and will continue to do so regardless of their interest in the PS3. I bought my PS3 for RPGs and Adventure games, as I did with the PS2 and PS1.

The problem I have is instead of people having a problem with Valve's choice of words they are choosing to attack them as a developer which I feel is unfair. Their body of work speaks for itself and an ass load of awards.

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somethingrandom
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 6:26:04 PM

@ The Highlander

And being a Computer Scientist/Programmer somehow certify you to assess their attitude more than anyone else? Don't joke like that.

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Dealnightfire
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:50:40 AM
Reply

I don't understand how Valve could say this. Didn't EA devs get the Orange Box on PS3? SO I don't understand how Left 4 Dead couldn't be done on the PS3 since isn't the engine based somewhere off of Half Life & CounterStrike?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:04:03 AM

If it turns out like Orange Box on the PS3, I don't WANT EA to take L4D to Sony's machine.

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:07:28 AM
Reply

WHAAAAAAA.....cries Valve, as they look around for some cheese to go with all their whine!!!

Guess they never heard the old saying "Use money to make money" & they don't want any money from 23+ million owners, that's flowing through the PS3's game sales pipe-line.

YAWN.........THEIR LOSS!!!!!

Last edited by BikerSaint on 6/10/2009 1:13:37 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:13:20 AM

There are 50+million wii users, I think you better start crying fowl at the developers not fully supporting that platform as well.

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oldmike
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:41:24 AM

yet the wii is more of a toy then a gameing system
most wii "gamers" have 2 to 3 games and get at max 1 a year

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Qubex
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:10:51 AM
Reply

What an absolute arse!!!

I a will deal with this later when I get home this evening!

Q!

"i am home"

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crump602
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:17:05 AM
Reply

Yeah they say that now, but the 360 is losing "steam" or already lost it and there gunna be sitting there with a thumb up their ass!!! By then it will be too late and the bridge will have been burned!!!

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The CEO
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:50:48 AM
Reply

I love Half Life and liked Left 4 Dead but did not play it much because I wont pay to play online. Valve was talented at one time but that was in the past. They are either lazy,greedy, or in my opinion not smart enough to learn the PS3s architecture. Oh and the proof of their laziness is they are using an outdated engine. I hope somebody from Valve reads this and proves me wrong, until they at least try creating something for the PS3 Gabe Newell and his cronies can suck on my balls.

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Deleted User
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:57:14 AM
Reply

@Vertigo - Once again! The damn bad comparisons! Wouldn't it be more something like this: "Michael Jordan is only good at dunking."

Let's compare genre to facets of basketball. Driving the lane, blocking, stealing, close range shooting, 3-point shooting etc...

You cannot be one of the greats if all you do is make a good FPS. That does make you a good FPS developer though.

Devs like Sucker Punch, Insomniac and Naughty Dog can take on any genre and make a franchise out of it. That's REAL skill. F*ck Valve.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:39:53 AM

Actually my comparison was dead on.

Since when does a developer have to make games for multiple genres to be considered great? If every game a certain developer releases is great and this has been the trend for over a decade I'm confused how that doesn't make them great. Oh I see that's simply your opinion.

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Kai200X
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:59:07 AM
Reply

I said it before I'd say it again, I could care less about Valve games. Have fun making games for PC and 360, I know I didn't miss anything by not playing their games.

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Sir Shak
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:06:36 AM
Reply

Valve sounds just like me . Blaming others for my laziness and sulking over lost glory .

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LegendaryWolfeh
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:20:34 AM

My life in a nutshell

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:26:59 AM
Reply

I agree with this thought process. There are people who have been working with PC code for a long time and just feel at home with that experience. We complain about bad ports anyway. I think we can live without Valve. I may very well be biased because I do not own a PleaseFixMe. I can assure you that my life isn't gimped because Valve doesn't make the games I play.

Whenever the next XBox is release, the same architecture should still be in place dev-wise so they'll be okay on the PC and XB platforms. The thing I don't understand is using the same engine for 10 years... they don't expect the same kind of gameplay to become worn out over time? I even need to retire some articles of clothing after a few years. If they are concerned with the Gamer's Experience, why not create something innovative? People shelled out $250 for a Wii-Wii because they thought they were getting something new. The people have clearly shown they feel different = fun.

He really could've said something different and not sounded as foolish as he came off. I understand what he is saying but his mindset will cost Valve many of their fanbase that have short attention spans and don't want to play the same basic game for 10+ years.

On another note, doesn't his statements remind you of the stigma placed upon XB users that they just play FPSs? Way to respect your customer-base!

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xnonsuchx
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 4:03:15 AM
Reply

If anyone's ever talked to the VALVE guys, you probably know they're some of the most cocky, self-absorbed people around...like the guys who came up with the .mkv format!

That is, they have somewhat delusions of 'godhood' (at least being only praised to no end) and are just freakin' obnoxiously rude about the slightest criticism, constructive or not.

Like Microsoft software, I'm all for using their PC stuff for free. ;-)

Last edited by xnonsuchx on 6/10/2009 4:07:28 AM

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karneli lll
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 5:15:09 AM
Reply

So who wanted left for dead on the ps3? Who are these individuals who wish to taint the ps3 library?

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whooka
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:20:46 AM
Reply

bah, who needs more FPS's anyways, the market's already inundated with them. and since apparently the PS3 is too hard for them get their peabrains around, it just means we won't have to suffer through a string of attempted, sub-standard games for the PS3 they may have tried to flog.

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Karosso
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:28:41 AM
Reply

I think this topic is better off... wait... Left 4 Dead :-p

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migabyte
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:41:20 AM
Reply

I actually want to play L4D, probably more than any other game on the Xbox360. It's a shame they're so lazy.

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Mr Bitey
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:54:03 AM
Reply

I don't think this is a huge loss. Half Life is like a decade old already. Left 4 Dead was OK, but now they are releasing an expansion packed as a sequel. Don't let the door hit you on the way out Valve.

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:03:48 AM
Reply

If Valve prefers PC, thats their choice. Shouldn't criticise them for it.

I just wish that they did something else with their half life engine, rather than just adding bits and pieces to it, like the adaptive AI thing. A nice touch, would have been complicated to program, but its still the same engine pumping out the same shooter everytime.

One thing I have noticed, if its a shooter, if its Valve and if its reviewed by Americans, it'll always get above 90%. Americans love their guns, (I'm Aussie by the way, and quite frankly George Bush Jr. did not help America's image to the rest of the world)

Anyway, the point is, Valve needs to explore new horizons if they are to stay ahead of the competition. What is popular in America doesn't mean its popular around the world, look at the PS3's popularity in Europe and Japan with Singstar and White Knight Chronicles.

Valve needs to start fresh. They just cannot keep milking this 10 year old engine clean. Yes, I got the Orange Box and Left 4 Dead on PC, yes they are fun, but it didn't hold my attention long enough like Infamous or Fable 2. Valve needs to stop admiring themselves in the mirror everyday and work on something fresh and fantastic.

Just because their shooter was revolutionary in 1998, doesn't mean it will be in 2010. If they are as good as they think they are, they would have blown our minds with something new and revolutionary again instead of milking the same engine with a new flavour and calling it different.

Look at Rockstar, EA and Activision, Ubisoft as well. They are creating new engines and updating graphics and physics all the time. Creating new engines each year or every 2-4 years.
The fact that Valve relies so heavily on this one engine from 2000 or 2001 just shows how far behind they are in this business. It is a shame really.

BTW, LimitedVertigo, you need to open your eyes to what Valve has accomplished in comparison to what others have accomplished recently. Half Life, Counter Strike and Left 4 Dead are running on old engines that have rarely been updated to compete with modern IPs.

I personally do not love these games, I love Guitar Hero, Singstar, anything ICO related, Mario franchise, GTA franchise and Gears of War. And do you know what the developers of these games did?

They pushed the boundaries of gaming!!!!!
Something Valve has never done since 2003 with the announcement of Half Life 2. And THAT was just the same engine with a new coat of paint.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:33:28 AM

Dance, I understand the source engine runs their games since 2004. I understand while it has been upgraded it still is has the same basic core as it did 5 years ago. I could careless about how advanced their graphic engine is. Crysis has been labeled the best looking game ever and after playing it I will gladly trade it for anything Valve related. Its about the gameplay and Valve's games still keep me coming back. LFD was released less than a year ago, I would label that recent. I agree that TeamICO makes amazing games, I'm waiting for The Guardian, in the meantime I'll rely on Valve and other great developers to tide me over.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/10/2009 10:34:03 AM

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CrazyIrishBoy
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:24:58 AM
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What a pack of artards. Well f**k em then, we dont need any uninspired games made by a lazy developer anyway, how good could it be with that attitude anyway.

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MARNEY
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:27:20 AM
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valve had made their position clear early on. considering dough boy once worked for M$ it's no surprise they choose to ignore the superior ps3 hardware... what happened with orange box was shameful, i do realize EA shares the responsability on tha one, but knowing you're releasing an inferior product to a segment of the gaming community is just wrong. A blatant $$$ grab. So let valve take the easy way out, for now they probably wont suffer much if at all. Truth is if anything "revolutionay" happens this generation on consoles, it'll happen on a PS3 simply because the hardware has not even come close to being maxed out yet. What you see now on the 360 will be as good as it gets, for the ps3 the best is yet to come. Whith COD4, Infinity Ward proved 2 years ago that a little effort can produce excellent multiplatform game. Thankfully there are other developers out there who realize that the ps3 brings something unique to the table & want to take advantage of the new possibilities the hardware offers.(Rockstar north). Valve is just ensuring that they will have nothing groundbreaking to offer this gen. Poor long term planning imao.
ps. Ben, you're gonna drive me nuts with the 1998 reference, lol. gimme a hint at least!

Last edited by MARNEY on 6/10/2009 9:31:44 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:28:19 AM

He's referring to the year the original Half-Life was released...

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BeezleDrop
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:37:09 AM
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I respect Half Life because its incredible, and it certainly was when it first came out. But that's it. How can you call yourself a game designer/developer and "give up" on a system because it's too "complicated". What about the other dev's like Naughty Dog, or Insomniac that have -NO- problems in any way. I can understand if they just don't want to design for the PS3 but it's they're loss.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:29:15 AM

You're referring to two companies that simply develop for the PS3. I'd like to think they would specialize in that area.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:38:10 AM
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Valve sucks anyways. I dont know of any great game they have released outside of the Half Life and Counter Strike but those were always PC games to me. I dont know what value Half Life held in bringing it to consoles. Whos cares. Go away Valve. I wont spend my money on an openly lazy dev. I think they just hurt themselves with this little comment.

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Deleted User
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:21:38 AM
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If Valve just wants their skills to atrophy, fine. I don't care as they seem to be in their "Fat Elvis" days. As Gabe packs on the pounds on the way to that massive heart attack, his reputation continues to erode.

Honestly, if I cared for Valve, I'd buy a kick-ass PC to play their games and not some console that looks like a tampon and is about as durable as one.

Last edited by n/a on 6/10/2009 10:22:03 AM

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rogergent
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:20:48 AM
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I know my comment is late but i have to say my eye's are on Sega atm. Imo they have made something that knocks any valve game on its arse (i do have a pc and have played all valves games up to left 4 dead). And thats valkyria chronicle its new fresh great game design and amazingly fun to play and oh w8 its on the ps3 so i see sega did not have any problems.

Last edited by rogergent on 6/10/2009 11:21:37 AM

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dveisalive
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:15:57 PM
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I know this might sound weird, but if developers like Valve approach the Wii like they do the PS3 then you would get only the best games instead of shovelware. Besides Half Life and that zombies game etc... what have they done technically. It's developers like Valve who I cant stand for they are to dam lazy. Then when i was reading this story on Destructiod, all of these dam 360 fanbys were talking so stupid, that it wasn't even funny. someone said that Valve cant due it for this cost to much money lmaol! Another person said that the SPU's are to much to handle and it it so hard to program for. Besides them being so lazy I think the real reason is because Microsoft paid them to be like this. Think about why does Microsoft have PC and 360??? When PS3 is powerful than both right now. Even Tretton or what ever his name is said that the PS3 has a optimized development kit that can basically do all of the work for you to code etc...(to make life easier!) For example look at Killzone 2. Killzone 2 as of right now is the most detailed graphically game in FPS's PERIOD. Even though it runs at a solid 30FPS it shows what is possible on PS3. you cant run this game on Dumbox 360 etc... Anyways Valve better suck up or shut up and stop complaining and start making highly detailed games for PS3 or else. It's not that hard if you just try. I do got to say that Orange Box was disastrous on my PS3.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:08:19 PM

Actually you are wrong, Crysis has more of everything KZ2 does in terms of graphics.

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Robochic
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:44:07 PM
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Simple minded people need a simple minded console welome to the 360.

They may not be a lazy developer they just need to re-educate themselves on how to do their jobs. I've never like anything these jokers ever developed. If i want a game that looks the same from the 90's i'll plug my nintendo 64 in.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:11:47 PM

So you're saying CSS, HL2, and LFD look like games made during the Nintendo 64 era?

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Nynja
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:28:34 PM
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Haha, I've felt that way about Valve's games from the beginning. I played the L4D demo on 360, honestly you're not missing much. You want 4 player online co-op zombie killing action? Go play CoD5.

In my opinion Left 4 Dead is nothing spectacular. They took the generic zombie game and added co-op. Personally I much rather play against 'smart' AI than the less intelligent opponents found in zombie games.

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:44:12 PM
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I've got a great idea to help Valve out....

How about if we all chip in to get Valve a "Lego engine developement kit" so they can advance their childish mindset.

Oh snap, it might not work because I'm not sure if Lego's come with instructions or not.

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wano
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 5:46:01 PM

cheers, that cracked me up.... ;)

I can use lego, and I dont need any instructions or anything. so i might ask valve for a job....

now wheres my feather quil and scroll paper. :)

Last edited by wano on 6/10/2009 5:47:44 PM

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:46:52 PM
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Oh, I've got it,
We can get Valve that childrens book, "The little engine that could"

I think you all know the one I mean, the one where the little engine keeps saying.....

"I think I can, I think I can, I think I can"

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:49:12 PM
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Too bad they are going to have to eat those words when the big wigs force them dev for PS3.

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Xplicit
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:07:36 PM
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FIGHT THE POWER!!!!

Its good to vent, i just really want a Price Cut for the PS3 so we can show Microsoft who's boss.

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Masterofallz
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:19:25 PM
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Every 73 years. Lmaoo, that made me laugh so hard.

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Masterofallz
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:19:27 PM
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Double post...

Last edited by Masterofallz on 6/10/2009 3:21:23 PM

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Masterofallz
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:20:57 PM
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Triple post..

Last edited by Masterofallz on 6/10/2009 3:21:30 PM

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jigokunohoono
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:57:38 PM
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yea valve is not that good at making games, portal is their only good game and they're just fat and lazy they dont even deserve to have a game on the ps3 (unless they make more portal)

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tes37
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 4:32:04 PM
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Doesn't sound like we'll be missing out on anything as ps3 owners. The real talent has been keeping me busy with all these gorgeous non valve games.

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Victor321
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 5:26:06 PM

Amen. Sides, never got into Valve's games, but I don't hate them either. They do what they wanna do, I buy what games I wanna buy. Simple as that.

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RadioHeader
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:12:13 PM
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Bollocks to 'em.

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556pineapple
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:14:52 PM
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I agree, it just sounds completely lazy to me. I personally don't think it matters anyway because Valve typically makes FPSs, (HL, HL2, TF2, Portal, L4D, etc.) and the whole mouse/keyboard combination just agrees with me better when it comes to FPSs. The PS3 has been, and will continue to do fine without them, and if they come out with a game I absolutely must have, I'll just get it for PC.

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Kangasfwa
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:37:13 PM
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Am I the only one who realizes Valve *bought* two of their newest "legends?" No really. Valve *bought* the team who created Portal so they could put their "legendary" name on it. They did the same to Left 4 Dead while it was still being made.

Valve was one of the first to utilize scripted events in games with the original Half-Life. Utterly amazing in its day but Infinity Ward has done better and on the "disaster on all levels" PS3 too.

The *only* impressive thing in Half-Life 2 was the gravity gun. The rest was simply a fairly well done FPS (except for that damn sand-bug sh!t).

Valve also announced all the H-L2 episodes would be released by "Christmas 2007." Oh really? Then where is it then? Are you incapable of dealing with PCs now too? (I know there's more to this story, but where the hell is episode 3? Valve teased it last fall, so it does exist, right?)

Valve does not deserve their legendary status. They put out one good game once a console generation--unless they buy it--or repackage their old games in new colorful boxes. With the completely unprofessional--and immature--comments that rival aaron greenberg, I have lost what little respect I once held for Valve.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:16:15 AM
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Here is a piece from a recent interview Gabe had with G4. Sounds okie dokie to me...


G4: So, last time we talked at Leipzig, I had asked you why there would be no Left 4 Dead on PS3 and you said because Valve, itself, wasn’t big enough to yet support PS3 development in-house. Is that still the case why Left 4 Dead 2 is not announced for the PS3?

Newell: Yes. We haven’t done a good job of taking care of our PS3 customers at all for the existing Orange Box customers, and that is very frustrating to me personally. Until we can do a better job than we have, I’m sort of hesitant to go back and screw them again. So, I want to make sure when we have customers on the PS3 they don’t end up in the sort of second class citizen that I feel that they’ve been by what we did originally with the Orange Box.




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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 8:52:46 AM

That is a much more reasonable explanation. I wish the person that crapped out this interview could have just been a little more professional and said something along those lines.

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NoSmokingBandit
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:03:26 AM
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While i love half-life, i must agree with Ben here. Valve isnt man enough to handle the ps3 so they try to blame sony for their shortcomings. Obviously its not too difficult to write for the ps3 or we wouldnt have devs like Terminal Reality saying they can have 2x as many objects on screen if they coded for just the ps3.
Valve makes a great game every 5 years or so, and i enjoy playing them, but when i compare them to devs like Insomniac that pump out one stellar title every single year i start to wonder if Valve is worth all the praise they get.

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Highlander
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:38:47 PM

The gaming world has had an infatuation with FPS titles. Valve with Half Life an Half Life 2 has ridden the wave of infatuation. People such as Gabe Newell and John Carmack have been lauded and hailed as 'legends'. Organizations like Valve are given sacred cow status, and now people pretend that Valve's crap isn't as smelly as every one else's.

The sooner we get over this stupid infatuation with the FPS, and start looking with a critical eye at games that trade on their name or that of their developer and not their content, the better.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:12:42 PM

TheHighlander,

Every single game I've bought that Valve has made has not only been fun as hell but has continued to please me for years after the product was originally released. There is a reason Valve has gained a certain reputation, it's becuase they produce quality products and listen to their customers. Steam has changed the way I buy PC games and has allowed me to keep in contact with those I play games with. There are reguarly discounted products on Steam and I find myself buying far more games for PC now thanks to Steam.

I agree that there has been a FPS overload in the last decade. I've also noticed that Valve has not faltered with a single FPS they've released. Both commericaly or critically.

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DGo8
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:23:12 PM
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To be honest valve are no1 in my opinion there not anyone big Left 4 Dead 2 looks like the 1st...it looks like the kinda games you play in tha arcades shooting zombies and that..well...im not very fussed about there choice to pu**y out of developing games for PS3 im sure most people feel the same way!

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hobbes
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 1:48:23 AM
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If you ask me, and I know you didn't, it's all a bit silly to criticize Valve for not developing for the PS3 if you don't like their games to begin with. If they were to publish their games on the PS3, would you buy them? Of course not. So why complain that they don't make them?

Naturally, some of you will say that you're not complaining about that so much as complaining about the cavalier attitude they have towards the PS3. That's a valid concern. Maybe they shouldn't be doing that. There should be some element of classiness that's decidedly absent. However, it's a tone that's decidedly absent from almost all dialogue concerning competing platforms. Sony will take shots at Microsoft. Microsoft will take shots at Sony. Nintendo will continue to live in La-La Land. Let us gamers flame it out on the internet where this verbal diarrhea belongs.

In regards to people pointing out the success that studios such as Insomniac, Sucker Punch, and Naughty Dog have had with the PS3, you have to remember that those are valued Sony assets, independent or not. They do get special access to middleware solutions and software tools that aren't made available to developers outside of Sony. In fact, there's a specific team at Sony to develop these tools. That's why those games are as awesome as they are. Valve wouldn't have those at their disposal thus, their games wouldn't be as technically and aesthetically competent as Uncharted, Infamous, Resistance etc.

As far as Valve's body of work is concerned, they really haven't done a whole lot outside of Half-Life. Every other major product that has seen release with the Valve label started out as independent products that Valve liked. They would then simply buy the developer or buy the IP. That happened with Portal and Left 4 Dead. Counter-Strike was simply a mod of HL that Valve decided to release as a standalone product. Same goes for Team Fortress. There is not a single development house in the INDUSTRY that has provided so little and gotten so much praise in return. Most teams that made only one kind of game got hammered for it. Core Design only ever made Tomb Raider. They no longer exist.

When a developer only makes one kind of game, the formula gets stale. That's why Bungie is making a different kind of Halo. Halo was getting stale. That's why Insomniac made Resistance. Sucker Punch made Infamous. With the exception of Halo ODST, which is still an FPS, these teams are doing or have done something different to wide acclaim(hopefully, ODST doesn't suck!).

In the end, I am a pretty ardent 360 gamer, I admit that. I still love the PS3. But it's the 360 gamer inside me that says to hell with Valve simply because they don't do anything new. As a PS3 gamer, I say that I didn't need them to begin with. That's what should be talked about. It isn't laziness that drives them to do nothing. It's fear. Fear of change. Fear of having to try something new when that's not in their mission statement.

Sorry for the wall of text.

EDIT: The last time I posted on here I was complete asshole. I went on a rant and said things that I regret. This thread has been full of insightful comments throughout. It's comforting to know that civil debate can happen on the internet.

Last edited by hobbes on 6/12/2009 1:53:45 AM

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Geobaldi
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 3:27:53 AM

Core Design also is known for developing the Fighting Force series, Herdy Gerdy, and Project Eden. Though Tomb Raider was their best work. Sad they had to go but everything else they made was pretty horrible. But at least they gave us one of the most well known gaming icons so they will always have that legacy. Hopefully Crystal Dynamics will continue to improve the series. They've done a great job so far after that disappointing Angel of Darkness.

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LimitedVertigo
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 12:25:51 PM

Great post, you need to contribute more.

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somethingrandom
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 6:55:07 PM
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Never seen so many people upset because a game developer's attention isn't squarely focused on them. Screw this thread, I'm out.

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