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Microsoft Should Stop Taking Jabs At Gran Turismo

Microsoft has an irritating habit of attempting to tear down the competition while simultaneously promoting their own; a marketing tactic we don't see as often from either Sony or Nintendo. ...and people wonder why there are a growing number of gamers who simply don't like Microsoft and how they handle their business.

But one thing they definitely need to do, before they make themselves look foolish amidst a bevy of hardcore car and racing enthusiasts, is continue to take jabs at Gran Turismo while telling everyone how great Forza 3 is going to be. First, Forza director Dan Greenawalt says GT "dropped the ball,", and then, he makes the mistake of talking some more. Let me explain something to you, Microsoft: no Forza installment has proven itself against any Gran Turismo entry in the category of realism and authenticity, as any fan of simulation racing will tell you. It'd be one thing to make bold claims and take jabs at the competition if any one of your titles had managed to say, "hey, I'm the most realistic racing experience you can have." But this has never been the case; in fact, Forza has been a borderline joke to racing purists in past years.

Now, I'm not passing judgment on Forza 3 as I haven't played it yet (even though Microsoft's magic ball can somehow tell us that it'll be better than Gran Turismo 5), but I've played the last two. I played them because I'm one of those people who only play simulated racers, and I want the best ones I can find. Of course, that has typically been GT over the years, but that's just the way it is. We at PSXE have a little thing for cars; Arnold and I had 350Zs for a little while (until I turned "traitor" and got rid of mine), and he always has an interest in the hobby. My father and other members of my family have been mechanics for years and although I don't claim to be one myself, I certainly know enough to spot simulation differences in video games. I've played Prologue, which, all on its own, is far more realistic than Forza 2 ever hoped to be. The problem with Forza is that they continually make allowances for a larger, more casual group of gamers that may need some assistance.

I don't know what they're planning with the third entry, but the past two can best be described like this (and ask any amateur or professional racer, who will undoubtedly confirm the assessment): it's a simulator superimposed over an arcade racer. In other words, its authenticity routinely makes way for the understanding that the player may not appreciate every last intricacy involved in the sport. Now, while GT offers something similar in the default mode, the Professional racing mode is something quite different, and as close to realism as I've seen. There are certain things you can do in Forza that just don't translate to real life, and that rarely happens with GT. Furthermore, if you're even going to bring up the idea of car damage, save your breath. You know what simulated damage is? It's grazing a wall at 35 m.p.h. that can cripple your tire and send you to the pits. It's getting bumped from behind and suffering an alignment issue that was no fault of your own. And if you want to get detailed, it's effing up on an engine upgrade (can't put the turbo in without altering the engine accordingly) and having your car blow up halfway down the straightaway.

Hence, we have never seen realistic car damage in any game, and whatever that was in Forza only made the experience laughable. It didn't make it "better;" it made it ridiculous. "Wait...after what just happened, I'm still racing...? Ooookay." Again, I have not played either Forza 3 or GT5 yet (unless you can count Prologue), so I have no idea how they'll turn out. I expect great things, certainly, and as an objective simulated racing fan, I really don't care which one beats the other. But I will tell you that thus far, GT is still the king, and Microsoft shouldn't toss their words around so freely. You haven't won jack sh** yet, so until you do, how's about keeping your eyes on your own paper? Don't worry about what Sony is doing; just deliver the goods. Is Microsoft at all capable of promoting themselves without going after the competition? I have difficulty finding examples of any first-party Sony developer doing any such thing in any interview anywhere, but hey, whatever. I'm just saying.

6/9/2009 Ben Dutka

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Comments (142 posts)

Bo0mKiiD
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:12:03 PM
Reply

We'll see which racing game is best.

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Victor321
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:14:32 PM

Oh, we won't even need to see, just close your eyses, and the answer's already in your head.

It Starts with a G, and ends with a T. And, just for icing on the cake, add a number 5 to it. =D

Last edited by Victor321 on 6/9/2009 10:15:04 PM

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Reccaman18
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:14:05 PM

Shouldnt it end with an "o?" lol

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:14:42 PM

Oh god!

That was an awesome rhyme Victor123!

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Qubex
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:13:23 AM

LOL... that is rediculous Scarecrow!

Q!

"i am home"

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Victor321
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:49:17 AM

@ Scarecrow, thanks and it's 321 ;)

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Victor321
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:50:18 AM

@ Reccaman18,

I was thinking of the short form for Gran Turismo that's why I said a T instead.

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wasim
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:56:53 PM

Forza is a dead franchise. No american plays that flop game not to even mention europeans --(people who plays racing games)

Forza 3 looks like a ps2 game vs GT PSP and even has half the number of cars as GT PSP

GT5 is bigger than all xcrap 360 franchises combined

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THEVERDIN
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:09:03 PM

Well I know that those MS fanboys won't be racing with a steering wheel from MS, cause everything they make is faulty. Remember the recall on the MS wheel? I do, shipped it to them never saw it again.

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Victor321
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:13:41 PM
Reply

Another Nicely Written Article.

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wasim
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:59:22 PM

indeed

I dont understand how are MS talking shit with a flop franchise like Forza 3

GT is bigger than all MS franchises combined . It will outsell flopza 3 just on the first day of its release worldwide

No one would buy a copy of flopza 3 in europe or japan or even USA unless MS gives the game away for free in bundles like they did with most of their games

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ZettaiSeigi
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:21:13 PM
Reply

Obviously, Microsoft is the reason why we have a lot of "immature fanboys" around. I don't think it was like this at all when it was just Sony, SEGA, and Nintendo slugging it out for videogaming supremacy.

It's not so surprising to see first-party developers avoid talking about the competition at all. They'd rather devote their precious time coming up with awesome games exclusive to our platform of choice, than talk about their insecurities and make fools out of themselves.

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:24:20 PM

Sony and Nintendo were going to have an epic battle in the ps2/Gamecube era


Microsoft stepped in with their money-hungry spoons and ruined it all.

Sony/Nintendo love QUALITY gaming and it shows in their first and third party games.

Microsoft on the other hand throws $$$$$ on third party devs and then says "OMG look at our quality games"

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Akuma07
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:16:45 AM

i STILL think consoles the likes of the Dreamcast and Gamecube were great machines.

I owned both, aswell as a PS2, and I loved all 3.

DC had some great games... Blue Streak, Shenmue, Powerstone etc.

and the 'remade' Resident Evil 1 and Resident Evil Zero looked fantastic on the Gamecube.

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:39:52 AM

There are some that will argue that the Dreamcast was better than the PS2 before it climbed into it's grave.

It had all of the arcade games I loved playing without the crazy load times. Too bad I couldn't afford one at that time.

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Troy Powers
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:03:36 AM

I was thinking about that a few days ago. When it was NES and Sega Master System, there was no fanboyism. The kids with one console didn't trash the other. You were friends with the kids with the other system, so you could play what they had too. Nobody cared who's was better.

But, I think it was the internet, not Microsoft, that created fanboyism. Something about internet anonymity that lends itself to pissing contests. "I'm a loser in real life, but here, I can PRETEND I'm hot sh*t."

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Dooby_Scooby
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:42:11 AM

Troy,

Before xbox was about did you have fanboys so devoted to their platform ? When you get paid to step into forums and talk sh** about "your platform of choice" it changes things quite alot.

Its not the Internet, Its Microsoft. Its called FUD, Check every business Microsoft are involved in and you will see the same fanboy bollocks.

I really couldn't imagine any of this rubbish going on if it was Sega, Nintendo and Sony still...

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ZettaiSeigi
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:05:33 AM

@Troy Powers: Yeah, I think the internet is more responsible for the mad fanboy culture nowadays. I just notice that most of these raging fanboys happen to prefer "the other console". I guess I had to apologize for blaming it all against Microsoft. Long days at work sure are never good. LOL Thanks for putting some perspective into that.

And about the Dreamcast, I agree that it's a good console. Sorry to have seen it end like that. It had a lot of spectacular games. I particularly love the Sakura Taisen (Sakura Wars) games that only came out in Japan.

Last edited by ZettaiSeigi on 6/10/2009 9:07:57 AM

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Dancemachine55
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:16:36 AM

holy crap!!! what you just said is incredibly true

I don't think there were as many immature fanboys before microsoft hit the market. What's the bet they're all playing Halo right now, swearing their heads off in a horrible attempt to act older and macho in the pre-pubescent squeaky voices!! LOL

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:28:46 AM

I'm sorry, but I distinctly recall the Sega fanboys running rampant when the PS2 came out. Honestly, it was almost as bad as it was today.

...not surprisingly, most of those DC fanboys became Xbox fanboys purely out of spite for what the PS2 "did" to their beloved system.

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ZettaiSeigi
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:33:08 PM

@Ben: Well you are more familiar with the gaming scene at that time. I mean, I was just merely enjoying my Dreamcast then, but I've moved on to the PS2 after that. No ill feelings at all towards Sony. I must have been drastically different to the majority of the Dreamcast fanboys then. LOL

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Dooby_Scooby
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:37:52 PM

One thing though, did the sega fans start foaming at the mouth when they knew Sega was doomed ? ( I wanted to get a dreamcast - never got the chance )

In any case, sorry I will take my comment back.

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Arvis
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:53:44 PM

I actually remember getting in HUGE debates on the school bus in middle school over why the Nintendo 64 was a much better system than the Playstation.

"It's 64-bit! And it's Nintendo! So it's the best!" I would cry.

"Bah! Playstation has Final Fantasy 7 and Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil and [insert millions of other classic]!" my friends would respond with.

But I didn't want to believe that there could be anything better than Nintendo.

And then I played a little game called Final Fantasy Tactics... and my life was forever changed. =)

-Arvis

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convergecrew
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:59:17 PM

Troy, you probably were around, but during the SNES and Genesis days there was rampant fanboyism. Me (TG-16 fan) and my brother (Sega fan) included. It was just harder to be a fanboy because there was no blog posting.

Fanboyism has always been around. Even the Sega Master System had its share.

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fluffer nutter
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:10:08 PM

converge is right. Doesn't anyone remember that ad campaign "Sega does what Nintendont." ?
People, like myself got a Genesis because we were tired of the delays for the SNES to come out but many of us ended up getting both systems eventually. TG-16 came into the party but not everyone was familiar with that platform. I won a TG-16 at a game competition in Mission Viejo and loved that thing. I miss it too.

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JDC80
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:26:59 PM
Reply

Question how in the blue hell they can rag on GT 5 when GT mobile looks better than Forza 3?

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Karosso
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:58:32 PM

So true Bro...LOL

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Wage SLAVES
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 4:39:21 PM

Record thumbs up!

I couldn't have put it better. The lighting in Forza is approaching Burnout Paradise tech. That said GT looks photorealistic.

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Banky A
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 12:52:13 AM

Cheesus Christ, 30 thumbs up ^_^

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oldmike
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:39:04 PM
Reply

i seen some say GT5 will have car damage also
so there is one less thing they can use

i am a gamer that supports the hobby at times i even get games that i am not that into like shadow of the colossus (looks good and a new idea i am just not that into timeing jumps it gets me mad more so then NG or DMC on ultra hard)

raceing games is one of the type of games i am not good at BUT GT5 is looking to be a be all to end all raceing game just haveing that game will fill every type of raceing i or a buddy mite want to play.

now sony mite have done the cash milking path and made 3 or 4 GTs this gen one for every type of raceing but no they are makeing ONE game that has it all and i MUST support that.

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napoleon85
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:51:22 PM
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I agree with you 100% I just love how ridiculously Microsoft puts itself down to the level of its own fanboys lol... Besides, how can Dan critique something he completely ignores? Those kind of statements just prove how insecure, immature, and stupid a person is capable of being.

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:15:16 PM

I think MS actually went about trying to create a rabid fanboy system.

Think about it, why else would MS keep getting caught numeous times paying some of their people to go into other console's forum & create havoc there(just as I think 1 or 2 of them probably come here too just to try & shake things up too).

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Highlander
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 10:55:51 PM
Reply

Ben,

"Microsoft has an irritating habit of attempting to tear down the competition while simultaneously promoting their own; a marketing tactic we don't see as often from either Sony or Nintendo. ...and people wonder why there are a growing number of gamers who simply don't like Microsoft and how they handle their business."

I think this may be the best written, most fundamentally true and accurate paragraph you have ever written. Bravo.

Oh, and you're right of course, about Forza 3 and GT and all teh trash talk. But that first paragraph of yours just NAILS it for me.

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Deleted User
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:17:58 PM

I second that. Ben for gaming President.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:36:53 AM

Thank you. I thought the article needed a decent intro. ;)

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Sir Shak
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:33:37 AM

I was about to start a thread in the forums with the same gist as this article , but you have obviously done a better job at expressing the pettiness of such tactics . These people are taking cheap shots at GT and Yamauchi every chance they get .

Saying that your game is better is acceptable , but using words such as " the king is naked and I don't want to slap him around " for one of the most respected game creators is just despicable .

All this when Yamauchi hasn't even made a passing comment on Forza , let alone criticise it . This pathetic behaviour can only be aimed at getting people to mention Forza and GT in the same breath .

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migabyte
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:46:24 AM

It's working in America though.....Sony could use a little of these cheap tricks.

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ZettaiSeigi
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:12:33 AM

@migabyte: The day Sony resorts to that will be a very sad day for me. Not saying that Sony never does this, but they sure know the capabilities of Polyphony Digital to create another amazing iteration of Gran Turismo. They would just let the game speak for itself, and it'll shut those people up.

Last edited by ZettaiSeigi on 6/10/2009 9:15:50 AM

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:22:18 PM
Reply

Though I haven't played any Forza game I have seen others play it and I'll say this:

Steering in Forza is a joke



^That alone makes Forza a joke if they're even trying to say that it's the best simulator out there.

Many have tried, all have fallen. Gran Turismo is the best racing franchise in v-game history, there's no two ways around it.

I so can't wait for GT5 to come out and bury Forza3 in its grave.

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Akuma07
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:20:37 AM

Racedriver: GRiD is a great racing game, by Codemasters.

You can't compare it to GT though because its a more arcade style experience.

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Nynja
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:26:38 PM

Funny you mention GRID. I felt that GRID was a better sim than Forza.

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dveisalive
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:26:40 PM
Reply

GT = over 50 million and counting Forza = no where ever close to touching the greatest Racing Sim ever. GT5 will sell millions PERIOD! I really cant wait. The one thing I love about GT is the drivers test they are so dam addicting to me etc...

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:36:22 AM

Didn't I hear correctly that Forza 2 has sold just over 3 million units and GT5 Prologue has outsold it at around 4 million? If that's true the GT demo beat the full FM2 game in quality and sales. Lol's

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dveisalive
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:27:46 PM
Reply

I agree with you Scarecrow I tried the Forza game in Gamstop and the steering was so gay it wasnt even funny. GT Rules PERIOD!

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sticklife
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:32:03 PM

Yeah I bet the steering like other steering of the same sex.

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fluffer nutter
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:30:08 PM
Reply

I bought Forza 2 for my Xbox 360 and man, was that a pile of crap. I just hoped for a good racing experience but I was very disappointed. At least, it was only $20. I have had more fun with PixelJunk Racers than Forza 2. I do hope that Forza 3 is something decent but I will wait until I actually pay it a bit before I even consider a purchase. GT5 is a day one purchase for me due to the fact that Polyphony Digital are the reason why I got a PS1, then PS2 and now my PS3s.

Last edited by fluffer nutter on 6/9/2009 11:31:26 PM

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Blood_Haze
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:30:09 PM
Reply

Gran Turismo 5 will be the BEST racing game of all time.

Now Forza Motorsport 3 is such a sad excuse for a racing game. The graphics aren't photo realistic like GT5. I bet the Wii can do a better job on making a racing game, even though the Wii is totally gay.

Comparing GT5 and Forza Motorsport 3 is like comparing shit(Forza Motorsport 3) to a diamond(Gran Turismo 5)

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sticklife
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:30:13 PM
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I think GT will show us how real in game car damage can be. Did anyone else see when a car crashed i think a wire sliced through the front bumper. Man I think i'll get a wheel for this GT.

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Banky A
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:33:20 AM

Where did you see that crash?
I neeeed ^_^

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:15:19 AM

@Sticklife,

GameStop has $30 off a PS3 GT Racing", complete with shifter, & separate foot pedals till this Thursday.

It's $99.99 right now, but goes back to $129.99 after the 11th.

Call first though, to make sure they still have some left.

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fluffer nutter
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 4:15:18 AM

That steering wheel has an MSRP of 149.99 but it's been going for 99.99 and less for a very long time. I saw it at Best Buy for 39.99 once but I didn't bite because I either want the G25 or the G27.

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sticklife
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:01:25 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip3kVMJR4ns about at 1:30. Which is the best race wheel?

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BIG_E
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:45:54 PM
Reply

I'm a gt man I'v played forza there both night and day not the same.Forza is to arcade like even in simulation mode.I'll be a happy man when gt comes out.I hope thay put the logitech g25 function in the game.Cool to have Ben you should try the g25,the clutch feature is nice
in Grid.All gt fans should have one,and feel
the awsomely goodness.



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skylineRU
Tuesday, June 09, 2009 @ 11:55:42 PM
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Well, some just say and do little
while others silently makes the result
"lion does not need to prove each of hyenas that he is a lion, even if hyena has opened it's mouth"

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Highlander
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:50:33 AM

Nice one, here's another addage that Microsoft might wish to review in order to shape it's future conduct....

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:55:51 AM

...gotta love the proverbial quips.

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SkantDragon
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:41:22 AM
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I use Gran Turismo to practice for RL track events. At one point, my RL Corvette got into an awkward state on the track, and I immediately corrected it and proceeded without issue.

It occurred to me later that I had encountered that state before while practicing in Gran Turismo... and that I had lost control and biffed it the first few times I got there. But I had learned how to correct it.

That is... Gran Turismo correctly predicted a driving dynamic circumstance I hadn't even realized the real race car could get into. And I learned the reflexes to correct it _in the simulation_ before it ever happened in the car. And I used those reflexes to correct the situation in RL without even realizing it.

That's pretty damned impressive for a 'game'.

I've also tried Forza. People who haven't done this stuff for real seem to think Forza is realistic. I tried driving my race car in Forza. It didn't feel much like the real thing. Just like you say, the physics includes arcade elements. I wasn't impressed with the simulation.

Where Forza does kick GT's hind end, however, is in sound. Forza's representation does sound like the real car. It's very good. GT's Corvettes sound like mopeds that have drunk too much coffee. Gran Turismo has just never been strong in the sound realism department. Not for any car. But it's the worst on any of the big engined cars.

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Deleted User
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:44:46 AM

Awesome :)

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:07:43 AM

I beleive most of you're comment except the Forza beats Sony's behind in the sound department. Granted some cars in FM2 do sound pretty close to their real life counterparts, most do not. Ferrari's are off, Audi R8, Ford GT, BMW's, Porsche, and many others.

Actually before FM2 shipped I saw an interview with the lead sound designer that said that their engines sounds use computer software simulated sound tech to make the engine sounds. Saves them time to have to record every engine sound. Where as Polyphony record every car engine sound on dyno testers with hitech mic and sound equipment. Watch the video "Beyond the Apex" found in Prologue.

As for the street version of the Corvette Z06, that engine sound is right on. My neighbor has the car and i've been for a ride in it. Anyways not arguing, just making a statement.

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Xanavi23
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:57:42 AM

GTs sounds sucked pretty bad in GT4. In GT5P though, they're much better. Drive the Art Morrison Corvette, awesome engine roar.

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crump602
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:55:27 AM
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The first Gran Turismo on PSone is better than Forza series!!! M$ should learn that saying.........

"You can't polish a turd!"

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fluffer nutter
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:04:16 AM

I completely disagree with that statement. You can ship your Xbox 360 to Colorware and they can make it all nice and glossy for ya. ;)

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:59:48 AM

...and you gotta love the not-so-proverbial quips.

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:04:29 AM

I disagree with that statement too. Mythbusters proved you can polish certain kinds of crap.

The XBox PleaseFixMe isn't worth sending it anywhere if not the trash compactor. You can buy a cheap can of Pledge and use a paper towel.

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LimitedVertigo
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:01:25 AM
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Anyone check out that video of Forza that supposedly took a month to complete? Evidently it was all in game and used the game's record feature. First, the graphics were nothing special. Second there is no way in hell anyone could drive like they were showing in the video. GT4 broke my friends PS2 because we refused to stop playing for 3weeks. My PS3 NEEDS this game.

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fluffer nutter
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:05:42 AM

I just saw a trailer that said "in game footage" on it and it wasn't very good at all. I saw some serious flaws on the graphics and it didn't look great. Not to mention, that song was horrible but still, I want to check it out and see if I may like the arcade styling of it.

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The Stig
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 5:26:11 AM

Just watched the "in-game footage", why dont they ever show an actual racing view? Hmmm, could it be because its just a polished replay.

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King James
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:12:43 AM
Reply

Ben you on a roll tonight eh?

I've never played the Forza but from what I've heard Forza 1 was GAR-BAAGE, and Forza 2 was the only thing close to a console racing sim that the 360 had so it developed into a premier title for M$. I will say that tuners like Forza 2's options. U can do engine swaps!

But in regards to Forza 3 and blasting GT5, I just say this...after E3 more ppl were talking about Split/Second and GT Portable than they were Forza 3. THAT'S A FACT.

I've never agreed with M$'s way of doing business. From the antitrust scandals, to the defective and fault hardwares, to the lies at the E3 press conferences...M$ knows little about business ethics and "the way of the sword".

This year at E3, M$ lied about:
-MGS: Rising being exclusive to XBox360
-1080p video instant streaming
-and most importantly Forza 3 being the best racing game out there.

Looks like I went on a slight rant myself. Thanks for the inspiration Ben. Who else you wanna blast? I vote for Activision giving timed exclusive DLC maps to the 360 for Modern Warfare 2.

Last edited by King James on 6/10/2009 1:15:56 AM

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hobgoblin
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:20:57 AM
Reply

I seem to remember on the Microsoft E3 09 conference that the Forza devs were touting that Forza 3 had the most cars in any racing game (400 I believe), and generally blowing his own trumpet. I have never heard anyone so full of themselves.

The following day, Sony announces GT for PSP with over 600 cars (which kinda p****s on the Forza statement)!?! The fact that a handheld will have more cars than the 360 is quite laughable.

I think that general insulting will always come from the Microsoft camp, which is why I prefer Sony. Yes, they may be a bit slow in bringing what gamers want (according to forums) to their console (and no, not Facebook or Twitter), but I cannot remember an instance where Sony devs have slagged off Microsoft devs for no reason.

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King James
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:39:49 AM

correction: 800 cars, 30+ tracks, 60+ variations, 4 player ad hoc mode, and 60 frames per sec.

GT just pwned Forza...PSP-style.

Last edited by King James on 6/10/2009 1:42:29 AM

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:12:23 AM

I still have major issues believing this much can be crammed into the PSP version. I still can't get Rainbow 6: Vegas out of my head. The game played great until it was over 3 hours later.

It will be very interesting to see if nothing is lost or screwy when it is released.

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Naga
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:49:38 AM

GT4 had more?? I think

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kiwami_nemesis
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:22:56 AM
Reply

i saw the new GT5 trailer. man i can't wait to play GT5 in 1080p. is saw the damage on the rally clip.
i never liked forza i do race in real life & for some reason i never got a proper sense of real speed in forza while cornering. they did introduce a few features that i hope GT5 is implementing like drag racing, better online battles & specific engine swaps for a given make & model but forza has some nonsense options like making a FWD car 4wd.

overall forza can't compete with the realism that the GT series has offered over the years. forza did had a visual advantage due to the graphical limitations of the ps2 but we all know the ps3 can provide some great visuals & GT5 is native at 1080p while the FZ3 is native 720p.

the g25 wheel is a most for serious player.

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Banky A
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:46:45 AM
Reply

The comments section in those sites made me cringe.

It was just as disturbing as Dan Greenawalt's statement.

>_<

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:55:51 AM
Reply

Ben another awesome article and well put. You couldn't have said it any better.

Anyways I'am a huge race sim fan and I'll fill you in on my experience in the area this article was written about. I've got a lot to say so bare with me.

I own both next gen machines, own Forza 1&2, and all the past GT games and obviously have Prologue. Before Prologue came out I would say that I played a hell of a lot of Forza 2 and am also a wheel racer (hence I have the 360 wireless wheel). I'am into hardcore driving as well which means 0 assist driving. I have played the hell out of Forza 2 and somewhat had a pretty fun time, but in other areas have been very frustrated with it also. FM2 had some good ingredients in the game, but to call it a simulator is far from the experience.

Dan Greenwalt likes to brag about his cutting edge physics in 3 and if it's anything like the garbage, fake, arcadey physics which FM2 had he is full of you know what? When you race with control pad users in FM2 talk about horrible racing. Their cars nose all over the place, they have no real major understeering issues us wheel guys have as the degrees of steering in the controller is way less than a wheel. Hence they seem to have the edge. The sheer speed that the R class cars (Race class) can blast through turns like a Indy car or Formula one car is insanely wrong. The way you can fishtail the race cars with extremely sticky tires around corners is so off its not even funny.

When you see the F1 series and American LeMans series (Don't forget the 24 hrs of LeMans is this upcoming weekend on Speed) cars blasting through corners and running off the rumble strips they can really nail them, but in Forza if you run on them like you should be able to you're car spins out or it sends you flying in the walls. The Physics are no where what any GT title I have driven and not even close to Prologue.

I'm waiting for my Porche Fanatec wheel to ship this fall. They keep on pushing the ship date on my order and I found out that they will be shipping mine in September and when FM3 ships in October they will also send me a free copy of the game. Sounds like the Forza guys have some sort of side business going on with Fanatec to promote their wheel and the game. So anyways I will get a free copy of the game to try out. But because the wheel is cross compatible with the PS3, 360, and PC, I really bought it for GT5. Anyways for Prologue I use the control pad to steer, and all I can say is even with the pad, WHAT A QUALITY EXPERIENCE!!

Driving with the pad in the cockpit view is gorgous, you can feel every little intracacy in the way the car drives like understeer, oversteer, the way the car sways around corners, hitting the rumble strips. Plus the pad doesn't jerk the car all over the place. If you have a fairly smooth thumb, the input is amazingly smooth. It really looks and feels like you are driving a real car and with the pad being as amazing as it is to drive, I can't even imagine my wheel. I'm horny..lol's. God I have so much to say.

Not only the graphics and physics are the best i've experienced with GT5P, but the little fine details he puts in his games. The sound of the cars, engines, road noise, wind effects, lighting, shadowing, replays, camera views, interior cockpits, etc, etc, are a marvel to look it. It just seems so real. Polyphony in an interview dyno every engine sound. The Audi R8 sounds exactly like it should as I've heard one up close and seen a video of it on YouTube. Whereas at that FM3 presentation at E3 the sound of that R8 is SO OFF it sounds like a Porshe Carrera GT.

Now Graphically FM3 looks pretty good with some nice details, but I downloaded the E3 presentation of it off Live's Marketplace and the video was in HD so I could really run and pause it to see every detail I could. After watching it for some time, it does seem to have a more arcadey look to it. The leather on the R8 dashboard looked like someone Armor Alled it, and the leather wheel and dash just didn't look like real leather, whereas the cockpit view and materials in GT5P just look so lifelike. And again the cars and environments in FM3 just looked more like a Pixar cartoon then what you see in GT5. Watching GT5P in action you feel like you are watching a Top Gear or Speed show or something like that. It's so real looking.

The Forza guys also put a lot of community candy in FM3 with their new HD video editor and as always painting editor. That seemed pretty cool if all you're into is that, but it seems with all that stuff they put in they are missing the real root of the game - Sim Racing. They added some one button assist for those that can't drive and rewind like Grid if you get into an accident and wanna mulligan. That's not what a sim racer is about.

Now I'm sure GT5 will have some awesome community features, and customizing, and gifting cars and tunes would be awesome and something GT PSP will offer, so GT5 will definately have that which is great. Plus it will offer 16 cars online which is gonna be over the top. FM3 lacks again in that area as again it will only support 8. That really isn't pushing the bar Dan Greenwalt.

So after lot's of time playing GT5P and Forza 2 and seeing FM3 in action I believe with all honesty that FM3 will rock the 360's guys world until the real driving sim comes out in GT5. GT5P blows FM2 out of the water, and I have heard that GT5 will look even more polished than Prologue, so with that FM3 does offer some competition, but it will not be the GT killer Microsoft claims it is. FM3 is just more the same with prettier graphics than before with some new candy added to it. It still looks arcadey the way it looked driving and the way the cars were taking eachother out. Looked like PGR more than anything.

As for Dan Greenwalt and Microsoft, they sure seem cawky all the time. They have to learn to keep their mouths shut. I know they want a share of the market in this genre, but please be more professional. Polyphony digital have spent 5 years on the GT5 project and it shows. Turn 10 just 2 years and they claim it's over for GT. Bold statement. That's all you can say. Then deliver. Funny you never hear Sony or Kazori yamaguchi ever utter words like that directly to FM3 or Microsoft products. Why should they when they don't have to prove anything. Proof is in the final product. FM3 ships this October which makes me totally beleive that we will see GT5 shipped during the holidays.

Because so many other amazing Sony exclusives are gonna ship spring of 2010 and Polyphony has said they could ship the game now if they want, leads me to think that they will let FM3 ship first and then drop the GT5 bomb on them this Christmas along with a 100 dollar price drop on the PS3. Definately will be a PS3/GT5 bundle out for the holidays. And with this move it will kill 360 future sales for sure. Can't wait for the near future. For those who were wowed by the FM3 E3 presentation - wait for GT5. It's gonna be the better buy hands down.






Last edited by HOODGE on 6/10/2009 2:04:51 AM

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Xanavi23
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:01:49 AM

Awesome comment, one thumb up isn't enough. Its is amazing how smooth the GT5P works with a control/pad. For now until i buy a cockpit, i use the sixxaxxis but im very smooth with it and pretty good although my laptimes need more work. I can race with wheel users and other pad users while being extremely clean.

I owned Forza 1 and played Forza 2...good games but they never came close.

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:48:53 AM

If I have learned nothing else on PSXE, I have certainly learned HOODGE is a true believer.

It was like getting to read another article! This tells me that a dev shouldn't be talking down on another company's game because the consumers are the ones that make those decisions with their cash, checkbooks, debit, and credit cards. Dan Greenawalt's opinion isn't reliable because he obviously has a vested interest in one of the sides. That conflict of interest removes his credibility and calls into question the quality of the game he is promoting. Pokers players never brag about how good a hand they have before the other players' cards have been revealed. They wait until they are cashing in their chips from their winnings to open their face about what they have or what someone else doesn't.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:30:40 AM

Thanks much! Excellent comment and very cool experience to go with the article. It should really be a "Part 3" with a title of "Evidence via knowledgeable user experience." :)

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:26:47 AM

Thanks guys. I'm passionate about race sims and GT5 is no exception.

Anyways just wanted to let everyone know that on GTPlanet.com it was announced that the upcoming Official Playstation Magazine is gonna contain a special GT5 preview in it. Probably officially give you all the details of the game and possibly a launch date.

Seems Polyphony Digital probably didn't want to interfere with the PSP GO's October launch which is a very smart move and waited for the news to spill after E3 on GT5.

Besides they have a must have winner in GT5 no matter if they showed it at E3. No need to piss on Forza3 and Turn 10's foot. Let them blow their ego's up. Then embarrase them later. HA.

So make sure you pick up your copy. Can't wait. It may even be out now.

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Kai200X
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:04:46 AM
Reply

What do you expect from M$?? They are only good for one thing, and that is talking trash. I can honest say they are the only one out of big 3 constantly talking smack. They attacked Nintendo, they attacked Sony even more and you know why? Because they are insecure and they want to talk loud to make themselves look tough.

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:25:58 AM

Well put Kai!!

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:50:59 AM

This assessment sounds accurate.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:24:11 AM

Lets not leave out Apple. They have been attacking Apple for years.

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:28:18 AM
Reply

@ Kai200x,
As a company, don't forget to add these into the MS column too......
Deceit,
fraud,
unreliablity,
and way too many numerous glitchy products.

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:35:51 AM
Reply

Seriously now,
Hasen't everyone ever wondered what might happen if all these MS guys keep putting their feet into their mouths????

Well, I foresee the Center for Disease Control slapping them with heavy fines in the future, for being ground zero in a "Athlete's Mouth" pandemic.

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Sir Shak
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:39:27 AM
Reply

Greenawalt : Yamauchi , you haven't done anything for me in years .

Yamauchi : Who the f*ck are you ?

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ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:49:52 AM
Reply

Guys, I just put together a massive editorial/op-ed piece about Forza and Turn 10's comment, sim-racers in general, and Gran Turismo's faults. I hope you'll enjoy reading it.

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fluffer nutter
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:55:26 AM

Looking forward to it, man.

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Sir Shak
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:03:54 AM

Where ?

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ArnoldK PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 4:03:10 AM

It's up now.

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DGo8
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:46:41 AM
Reply

MS...you stupid...GT is loved by millions..its THE driving game people from alot of generations will tell you...You cant have a touch on GT...To put it simply...GT is a classic..and..we all know you dont f*ck with the classics!! I cant beleav MS are saying Forza is the BEST driving game of this gen...MS your biting off more then u can chew...all you do is talk sh*t about other companys and there products!....there trying to give out bad comments and what not about GT to try and put people off the rival brand....trying to give it bad rep b4 its even out..but they dont understand no1 cares what MS say about this game...we all know its gonna be a sick game..and this will the BEST of this gen! Not your cheap arse game :)

Last edited by DGo8 on 6/10/2009 3:47:54 AM

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karneli lll
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 5:29:24 AM
Reply

forza 3: 400+ cars. Gt (psp version): 800+ cars.

Nuf' said.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:54:49 AM

lol too true. i should have read the comments before i posted mine i suppose. i made the exact same point. This is getting ridiculous. M$ did this same thing in Japan when RE5 was released. Smeared the PS3. They even sent out a love note with their review builds boasting about how the PS3 sucks and RE5 was way better and looked better on their console. Lame.

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tanner1
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:46:50 AM
Reply

Not a huge racing fan however, i got prologue and my eyes started bleeding, i played forza 2 on 360 round a friends, whos got a ps3 aswell and prologue, we both think theres no comparison, the only better thing in forza is when overtaking you can look @ the numpty ur caining

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Mr Bitey
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:47:45 AM
Reply

Thank you for the fantastic write up. I read about this a few days ago, and it made my blood boil as well. Fanboys fighting on the internet is one thing, but company executives resorting to this behavior is appalling.

Aaron Greenburg and now Forza guy, are among a growing list of reasons why I dislike MS as a company. At one point I was actually a potential customer, but they have completely turned me off. In reality, this is probably a sign of how desperate they actually are.

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Dr_Evil_Genius
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 8:58:45 AM

I agree with you sir. I was contemplating buying a XBox from this girl I used to mess with years ago for $100 (my girlfriend won't let me give her anything less for it) and now, I just don't see the point. I am not one to buy too many games. I like to find ONE online game (CoD4) and play that until I can't anymore but Sony has finally repaired it's image enough after the debacle of 2006 to get me to widen out a bit and buy more games. Why waste $100 on a XBox when I can buy 2 or 3 more PS3 games I KNOW I will like AND be able to play?

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:33:59 AM

Why would you thumb down Barnabee's comment. Must be some XBOX Troll that did that. Great comment.

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CH1N00K
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:08:27 AM
Reply

Sounds like Microsoft has Penis envy. (No, Mine's bigger!)

I have no problem with competitive marketing, but a straight up verbal assault? That's a bit much...What do you suppose they would have said if GT was actually going to be on the 360? Microsoft is just choked that they can't buy that kind of quality.

Forza isn't even close to being in the same class as GT and that makes them nervous. When I saw the preview for FORZA 3 during E3, I thought it looked like a mix between Grid and Burnout. Record your stunt run? WTF? Comparing Forza to GT is like comparing Mario Kart to Burnout: Paradise...their not in the same class although they both involve cars.

Forza is kind of a hybrid. It's an Arcade-simulator. GT has always strived to be a straight up simulator, and has gotten better with each installment as technology improved.

I think the problem MS is having with this game is that they know that GT is going to sell Sony more systems. They also know that some fans of Forza and the 360 will be upgrading to the PS3 when this game launches. And that has them running scared. As much as I slammed the idea of NASCAR being in GT5, A lot of Americans will buy this game for that reason, and as the sales figures show, a lot of Americans bought 360's. Which means Microsoft is losing some of it's base customers to Sony. If you were them how would you react?

I think what Sony needs to do now is ignore Microsoft and start doing some more "only on PS3" ads. Microsoft doesn't have much of an answer this year for that.

Last edited by CH1N00K on 6/10/2009 9:18:33 AM

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:39:56 AM

Wow!! Well put and honest comment. I love hearing all this feedback. It's not fanboyism comments either. Just the facts and truth, nothing more.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:50:29 AM
Reply

Well the fact that GT PSP has double cars and looks better says it all. GT Prologue kicked Forza 2's arse, GT5 is going to mop the floor with Forza 3. This is pathetic. This is part of the big reason i wont do business with M$ anymore. Gaming or desktop. Theyve done this sort of "slander" and "smear marketing" to Apple forever. I used to buy it until i actually bought an Apple computer. my iMac is way better then any PC ive owned.

Last edited by Jawknee on 6/10/2009 9:53:11 AM

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Deleted User
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:27:57 AM
Reply

For what it was, I thought Forza 2 was great. I was addicted to it. However, I know that the king of car games is still Gran Turismo and I know 5 is going to be mind-blowing.

I think MS has stop with this garbage. They have brainwashed so many people into believing their BS that these poor souls go around spewing nonsense all day long.

Ben's last sentence in his first paragraph sums it all up. MS should just shut up; they play the ugly American card way too much.

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yerok
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:33:17 AM
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Really folks? You decry the fanboy attitude, yet most of these comments are riddled with it. You claim to detest the practice of talking smack about other products, but the entire thread is devoted to "forza is the worst thing out there". While it feels good to claim the high ground, I think it's a little more difficult to actually live up to that claim. Love for GT is great, it's a great franchise. Why not keep it at that?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:56:14 AM

When in Rome, chief.

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Nynja
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:31:40 PM

Ben is stating facts about Microsoft's claims of the better simulator on their platform which ended up just being a hoax. What I gathered from the article is, if you intend on "slamming" the competition make sure you can actually back it up. Microsoft's history of faulty products (hardware and software) have yet to backup their claims.

Vista... nuff said.

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karneli lll
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:14:38 PM

yerok, the forza team decided to go head to head with gt,its meerely comparison.

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crawdaddy
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:40:44 AM
Reply

Everybody gets all tore up because Microsoft is claiming that their product is better than Sony's. Sure GT games are probably better in most ways, but also have their bad points that I'm sure many of you have complained about over the years of playing them too. Back to my point here, is that all companys say their product is better than the competition. Doesn't anyone here watch tv. My cleaning product cleans better than that cleaning product ect...As a business you have to claim your product is the best whether it is in an interview, or a commercial, or anywhere you are talking about your product, and one reason you don't see Sony doing this , if you have noticed, they don't ever talk about their products anywhere. They don't even advertise. I also want to point out that GT is my favorite too. I have all the games in the series, and GT2 is actually still may favorite even though the ps1 graphics really seem to suck after having a ps3.

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:48:20 AM

Ya but Crawdaddy I've never heard Sony go on the record and use a developers personal name or for that matter even a specific game title name mentioned.

Ya Sony isn't afraid to say, "Only possible on Playstation." They are not afraid to say that they are the industry leaders for gaming. There is much truth in those statements. Microsoft just openly blurt out statements that even a lawyer defending his client wouldn't outright say in front of the courts.

So cmon. Read into Bens article and click on those articles that he highlighted and read the harsh, brash comments, then think about it.

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Nynja
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:32:43 PM

If you want to go that far, companies are not allowed to make false claims.

That would be false advertising.

@HOODGE;

"Only possible on Playstation" comment just irritates me. I think Sony needs to rethink that line or simply drop it altogether.

Last edited by Nynja on 6/10/2009 12:33:46 PM

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:06:42 PM

Ya true nynja, but the "only possible on playstation" was mentioned after the MAG demo onstage and with 256 player online support, that statement was definately true. From a technical comparison console to console the PS3 is the more powerful platform.

So I see no harm in any of those statement. Proof is in what both machines can do. Not to say that the 360 is a turtle. It is amazingly powerful. It just has older technology and a DVD drive that is pretty limited.

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crawdaddy
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 5:38:26 PM

@Hoodge: Not true! Sony does just as much trash talking as everybody else, and they have a track record of it for years, just like this example:Another day, another bizarre attack from Sony. The latest: Sony exec John Koller blasts Nintendo's (NTDOY) updated DSi portable console as not appealing to anyone outside the "kids market." But it's just not true. The DS (in Japan at least) actually appeals to a wide array of demographics, with gamers in their early 30s the DS' second biggest demographic outside of the 10-12 year old set. Anyway this is just one example, and they are examples all over the internet from all kinds of sites like ZD Net and others of Sony trash talking the competition. Sony does it as much as Microsoft, just like the ps3 fanboys does it as much as xbox fanboys. It is something that happens across the board! I did read the articles that Ben linked to, and all I read was that Sony dropped the ball, and they picked it up. He even sait he liked GT games and respected the developer. If the comment "dropped the ball" is a harsh comment, then the comments from this site are the worst comments that could ever be made about the competition.


Last edited by crawdaddy on 6/10/2009 5:46:50 PM

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Oyashiro
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 9:30:42 AM

I would be agreeing with you if it weren't for the fact the Ninty actually said the they are aiming for the "Kids market".

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rezenu
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:41:06 AM
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I'm sure Forza 3 will be good for the 360 fans but yea, you're right. Too much trash talking coming from these guys.

Let your game do the talking.

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Skatejimmy5
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:45:39 AM
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Amazing article, so true.

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Robochic
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 12:57:49 PM
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Awesome article once again Ben,

I love the GT franchise, i'm not keen on Forza at all Burnout and even Mario kart are better than forza.

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Dustinwp
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:00:32 PM
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Forza 3 will probably be a decent game, but I am so sick of listening to Microsoft's arrogant employees running their mouths! Microsoft your sh** stinks the same as everyone else. I wish they would shut their holes and start acting like it does. As of late their really starting to run their mouths to often and their starting to really show their true a**hole colors.

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Capital Dream
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:14:47 PM
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why is this titled "Microsoft Should Stop Taking Jabs At Gran Turismo" ms has nothing to do with this, this is turn 10.

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Dustinwp
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:28:50 PM

Turn 10 studios was created internally by Microsoft Game Studios. So their part of Microsoft.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 6/10/2009 1:29:47 PM

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Dooby_Scooby
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 1:33:11 PM
Reply

One thing though, did the sega fans start foaming at the mouth when they knew Sega was doomed ? ( I wanted to get a dreamcast - never got the chance )

In any case, sorry I will take my comment back.

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 3:06:33 PM

@Dooby_Scooby

Hell, I'm 56 and if I remember right, fanboyism started way, way, earlier, somewhere around the Tandy/Commodore era.

It was just that boaster's were just way more civil towards each other back in my days, or we'd wind up with the ocassional toe-to-toe, duking-it-out, in real life.

That was, until some cowardly scumbags much later on found out that they could play out their "keyboard commando" fantasies by talking sh*t about everyone else, all while hiding behind a computer.

Anyways, the Dreamcast was a good machine, so if you ever get the change pick up a used (Ebay, 1/2 com, Amazon, Craigslist etc), then grab it.

And as for Dreamcast games, here's just a few good ones off the top of my head...

The "Craxy Taxi" series
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Silent Scope
Wetrix
Zombie Revenge

BTW, I don't play RPGS & most strategy games, so I'm sure others here can add thier own good picks to the list too if you ask them.

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cell9899
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 2:36:02 PM
Reply

This guy at Turn 10 was getting his diaper changed when Yamhauchi was already hard at work on making GT1 for the Playstation. All of the sudden the student knows more then the master??? Who in the Blue hell does this guy thinks he is? He doesnt even have a good track record, where is his material to back up his claims. None of the Forza titles have ever surpassed a GT title. Hell PGR was always better then Forza and that was an arcade racer.

If he only had a speck of all the wisdom Yamhauchi has acquired over the years, he'd be a better man.

PS: Lets not forget that Yamhauchi teamed up with NISSAN MOTOR CORP and NISMO to help designed the real Nissan GT-R, and that is one bad ass car, its built with everything in mind, just like a new Ferrari is designed.

The car sports a 6cyl engine yet it produces great torque, thats because front end design is built to maximize wind resistance and down-pull aerodynamics come to great effect with the specific design on the nose. Even the frigging rear spoiler comes into account, when drifting and swerving.It wasnt just built, it was engineered with RACING in mind. Its no wonder why Motor Trend gave it the notch on G-force pull, and optimal handling on slalom turns,compared to the M5 BMW, the Porsche Carrera Gt, and the Corvette Z06. Not to mention the that Automomobile magazine described it as the best,truest representation of a sports racing car in years.

Yamhauchi does not only make racing Sims, he eats, breaths, and sleeps on automobiles. Its his life, his true passion, his core of creativity for years on. He also happens to be a perfectionist, this is why we dont see a GT title every year.

So for this numb nut amateur to open up his mouth and start blabbing S&!^ just cause he has something going on with FM3, does not even began to comprehend what a racing video game is all about, its not about selling more games to prove your best, its about the passion ans soul that you engrave on every game you produce, and let the end user experience it to its fullness.

In other more vague words.........Some one PLASE!! just put a Diaper on Greenwalt's mouth, before we all get $&!^ stained with his none sense.

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crawdaddy
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:29:57 PM

All of your comments were great, and I agree with all except for the first two paragraphs, and the last two paragraphs which put you into the catagory of "Idiot Fanboy", so any comments by anyone in this catagory don't mean s**t, because they are biased with fanboy hatred.

Last edited by crawdaddy on 6/10/2009 6:30:59 PM

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Banky A
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:10:49 AM

Crawdaddy what the fudge? He has fanboy hatred????????????

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 5:39:04 AM

@Cell9899

Hardcore Breakdown for ya, (or Texas-Two-Step whatev floats your fancy)! That was well put!

@Crawdaddy, whats with the Roid Rage...?

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:21:34 AM

When you've put out a racing series that's sold 5 million copies I'll take your opinion seriously. You should be happy that someone is coming along to try and topple GT from the throne that they've held on to with a iron grip. Competition creates diversity and improvement. Just look at what's been added into GT5 to make sure they can stay on top.

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RadioHeader
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 6:40:43 PM
Reply

Imagine how obnoxious M$ would be if they actually found themselves with a superior product of some sort.

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AceTatsujin
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:15:03 PM
Reply

Forza on the shitty box 3-fix me. While GT is on the monstrous powerful machine, PS3. Please ... Spare us the words, MS ... all you do is "talk". I can't wait till GT5 walks the ground. I really can't wait for those moments.

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 7:57:43 PM
Reply

Just checked out a poll that was running on CNet on which will be the better game GT5 or FM3? Was on the Forza website and apparantly Dan Greenwalt said that for voting for his game, he will be giving a free unicorn car over XBox Live to all voters.

Talk about Bribing. Is he ever a kid.

Anyways the poll just closed with close to 30,000 voters casting their ballots.

And the winner is...........................

GT5 by over 4000 votes.

Poor Dan Greenwalt. Even bribing 360 Forza fans with a free downloadable unicorn car got you a loss. LMAO. Should of heard all the 360 fanboy comments and flaming going on. "Forza's got better physics.", "GT5 drives like an arcade game and the cars don't respond like they do in Forza 2." Bunch of kids that haven't even driven a real car lately nor know what a real driving simulator should be like.



Last edited by HOODGE on 6/10/2009 7:58:51 PM

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crawdaddy
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:23:33 PM
Reply

What is up with all this which is better crap about GT5 or Forza 3. If you have a ps3 you will get GT5, and if you have an xbox 360 you will get Forza 3, or if you own both systems you might get both games to play a variety of games. The only people that care about which is best is the idiot fanboys, or the people that own both systems, but mostly the idiot fanboys on both sides so they get to spew that idiot hatred s**t they love to do so much.

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HOODGE
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 9:51:00 PM

Crawdaddy. Enough with you and you're fanboy related problems. You sound more like a 360 fanboy if I do say so yourself. I too have all systems my friend and I enjoy everyone of them for what they can do. Just love my PS3 the best.

Go to CNet and find out for yourself and give all those flamers the gears too. This is a Playstation only site so it is directed to Playstation products and fans who wanna be involved. STFU for once and quit complaining about people expressing themselves.

I saw a picture of you on you're ID and you're not a kid are you? Stop fathering everybody. I'm a 42 yr old man myself and I don't act like some grouchy old man when it comes to gaming. Quit the ridicule.

Last edited by HOODGE on 6/10/2009 9:52:23 PM

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Arvis
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:50:06 PM

Crawdaddy, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The problem here is that this isn't a matter of opinion. It is an unequivocal fact that Gran Turismo is the more realistic (better physics), more entertaining (better graphics), and more satisfying (more cars) driving simulator.

But if you're not fortunate enough to own a PS3, you're forced to settle for Forza, so you may as well make the best of it, right? I hope you're not playing on an Arcade model 360, because you won't even be able to play Forza 3 without a hard drive. I feel bad for the few car enthusiasts who were suckered into buying the inferior 360.

-Arvis

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cadpig
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 10:49:48 PM
Reply

If microsoft think they've got the goods, then bring it on.

"no Forza installment has proven itself against any Gran Turismo entry in the category of realism and authenticity, as any fan of simulation racing will tell you"

Bingo..

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:27:42 AM

this is the correct response to Turn 10's comments

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crawdaddy
Wednesday, June 10, 2009 @ 11:09:31 PM
Reply

@HOODGE: It is one thing to make comments about how good your system and related things are, and to even point out the bad with the other systems. I don't have a problem with intelligent comments and debates, but when people are making rude bashing comments like some other system is the lowest pile of s**t on the earth or just stupid hatred type comments, the type everyone here complains about xbox fanboys making, then these people here making those comments are just as low and stupid as the xbox fanboys, and they are a lot of those type comments here, and when I read these type comments by a bunch of idiots I am going to comment on how they are a buch of fanboy idiots, and disagree with their comments wheteher you or anyone else likes it or not. There is a difference in being a playstation fan like I am, and being a playstation fanboy, and they are a lot of them here too. So as they say GET OVER IT!!!!!!

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Banky A
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:11:52 AM

That's a lot of hate ^_^

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HOODGE
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:19:19 AM

This is my last comment back to Crawdaddy. In the first place if you have any problems with the articles and comments in here please address them to Ben okay as the discussion is purely based on his article. Lately I've even been know to hear you flame his thoughts on his articles, so clearly the problem is with you my friend and if you don't like it then maybe you should just read the articles and take it for what it is and not get involved in reading the readers thoughts. It sounds like it stresses you out.

So instead of trying to start an argument with me maybe send Ben a personal message and discuss it with him. No competition or debate hurt anybody Mr Police Officer. Did you ever consider that a lot of developers read into what people say to give them what they want, or get ideas from us on how to do business better, or what to put in their games to make them more competitive and better. They feed on input like this.

I look at the competition between FM3 and GT5 as a dam good thing as it pushes both developers to compete and make a better product. We the consumers benefit from this in the end. If there were no competition, companies could become lazy. As for competition between fans of Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo is not a bad thing. Everybody has the right to stick up for their brand of choice.

Obviously you don't seem mature enough to understand that and I will repeat myself that you need to STFU on people whether they be fan boys or not. Go the XBox forums and read that stuff if you don't like it here. I'm sure you will hear a lot more Playstation bashing there then the Xbox bashing here. GET OVER IT yourself CRYDADDY!!

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Wage SLAVES
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 5:51:11 AM

Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate!

(Playa Haters Ball)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5L20vWjMUA

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 6/13/2009 5:57:13 AM

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:25:31 AM

@hoodge : You had me going there man. You were doing a great job until you went into your own little rant and the end... pure lolz.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:33:11 AM
Reply

Crawdaddy: Perhaps you don't notice it, but you make a LOT of comments about how you're not a fanboy and how a lot of other people here are. You also spend a lot of time talking about sales numbers and how Sony keeps losing because of this...

Maybe you need to realize where you are and tone it down a little. When Microsoft is acting badly, they will be treated badly. If you don't like it, you don't need to post. For the most part, we DON'T have a bunch of "teh Xbox and M$ sucks!" in all the topics. In fact, we almost never see that. So quiet DOWN.

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Deleted User [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:33:30 AM

He is over zelous, but he is right. You should take your job a little more serious. Idiotic comments shouldn't be tolerated regardless of whome they are point towards. Point in case is that Forza is a game that is trying to bridge the gap and bring player (like me) who don't really enjoy sims into the experience. I love racing on Forza 2, but I seriously couldn't enjoy it if it wasn't for all the assist I have on. I've been able to turn many of them off as I've continued to play, but I'd never be able to enjoy GT(stopped trying after 3) because I don't have the same amount of dedication to sims. That being said what is better is always a matter of opinion. Turn 10 has been hard at work for 3 years on this so maybe they got it right this time. In any case I think that compition forces change and that's good for PS3 fans since Microsoft has turned up the heat so has Sony

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Perry Katy
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 10:35:23 AM
Reply

Yamauchi is a Professional. No match for scumbags Turn10 :P

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:35:12 AM

Those scum bags manged to sell 5 million games on ruffly 1/3 the systems as the PS2/PS3. Times that by three and you have GT numbers. Compition forces change and I think everyone is excited at the news about the additions to GT5.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:15:38 AM
Reply

You do turn those assist off I'm assuming right? I mean I can hardly play the game without at least half of them on. I don't know at what level you think it needs to be in order to be called a Sim, but Turn 10 has been working on Forza 3 for 3 years. They'll always have the assist in for people like me, but the option to turn them off is there to right?

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