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Sucker Punch: Not The Biggest Fans Of Multiplatform

Gamers and journalists have been saying it for quite some time: when you produce a multiplatform title, you may have to make exceptions (to keep the game mostly identical on all targeted platforms), and on the flip side, a purely exclusive project should allow the team to excel.

Well, Sucker Punch tends to agree. In a recent IndustryGamers interview with studio co-founder Brian Fleming, he tells us why the team remains on good terms with Sony, and how designing multiplatform titles can lead to "problems and compromises." While avoiding exclusive projects certainly gives you a wider audience, Fleming believes one should "assess what you value," and Sucker Punch saw value in maintaining their long-standing relationship with Sony. But interestingly enough, it's not about loyalty, it's about making the best game you want to make...and if they were to go to another platform at some point, that game would probably be exclusive to that console. Said Fleming:

"I think you can get very caught up on 'we have to do cross-platform' and end up failing on axes that might be more important to you, like your happiness, the quality of the games you make, the patience of the publisher when a game is struggling – inFamous struggled for a while before we found our footing – and we appreciate that [Sony's patience] because it made our lives better. At the same time, we're not in this for charity; it's a for profit business and we have a business model that leads us in that direction, but you do have to be careful about being greedy. We love being first-party, so if we did something different I don't think we'd be cross-platform... I think we'd want to do some exclusive on some other platform."

It's certainly an interesting take, and one we believe more developers should have. It's no coincidence that many of the best games of this generation are platform exclusives (MGS4, Killzone 2, Gears of War, etc.), so obviously, the idea that developers can push the envelope when not having to constantly concern themselves with multiplatform isn't so silly. inFamous is great fun, but Sucker Punch thinks they may have had to cut some corners if it weren't exclusive. And that's exactly the point.

6/11/2009 Ben Dutka

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Comments (115 posts)

BIG_E
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:23:10 AM
Reply

The sound of this is sweet music to me.This team is one of the best.I would love to see Slycooper4

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dfoz3
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:37:48 AM
Reply

Ironic that these comments will be turned into a Sucker Punch love fest by the same people who flamed Valve to hell and back yesterday. They stated the same reasoning that Valve did although with a little more tact. Please go ahead and vote me down now for not being part of the Sony hive-mind.

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Oxvial
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:50:05 AM

The problem Valve says .

PS3 a "waste of time"



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Jawknee
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:50:21 AM

to be fair. Sucker Punch stated that if they moved to another platform it would be exclusive to that platform. Valve just flat out said its too hard. Valve hasnt made a good game since Half Life and Counter Strike on the PC. Either Valve is a crappy dev, or they are lazy. Im enclined to think both. Thumbs down!

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:33:44 PM

Yeah. There may be a SLIGHT difference between saying, "we can make the best game possible by being exclusive" and saying "the PS3 is too complicated for us so we won't do it."

Just a slight difference. 'rolling eyes'

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:41:19 PM

It was the way Valve's Tom Leonard stated it. A reasonable statement like this compared to Tom Leonard's statement is like comparing apples to oranges.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 6/11/2009 12:41:34 PM

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dfoz3
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:58:39 PM

"But I think there's a small selfish component to what we do in that we want to run a business that we truly enjoy, and doing cross-platform, while you would reach more people, it also introduces a whole bunch of problems and compromises and difficulty that doesn't make making games a lot more fun."

- Quoted from the interview. As I said, Sucker Punch may have used more tact, but they said the same thing.

I just think it is funny how insecure the hardcore PS fanboys seem to be over things like this. Give Valve some credit, they would not be successful if everything they made sucked and was lazily produced.

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Deleted User
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:02:38 PM

I'm the same way sometimes dfoz (about the too much love part), but I have to agree with everyone else on this. It's a completely different statement.

Sony better buy Insomniac, Sucker Punch and Naught Dog dammit!

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dfoz3
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:22:47 PM

Sucker Punch's reasoning:

"...doing cross-platform, while you would reach more people, it also introduces a whole bunch of problems and compromises and difficulty that doesn't make making games a lot more fun. In fact, I think it subtracts from that."

Compared to Valve's reasoning:

"The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward. We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform. [...] I didn’t come into this business in the 90s because of some technical fetish. I came in because I wanted to give people experiences that made them have fun."

How is there a huge difference between these statements? They are both stating that they choose to stick with their respective platforms because it is simpler and more enjoyable. Pretty straight forward. The difference in tone can be attributed to the difference between every human being.

Valve's may seem more derogatory but really all he is saying is that he wants to have fun rather than worry about Sony's more complicated architecture. How is calling their architecture more complicated an insult? It appears factual given the length of time Sony's exclusives take to develop compared to other platforms.

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:25:56 PM

@Stickemup Naughty Dog is part of World Wide Studios. So we don't have to worry about that. I do agree they should try to acquire Insomniac and Sucker Punch.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 6/11/2009 1:29:02 PM

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Jawknee
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:32:21 PM

Valve is trying to throw the blame at Sony for their short comings. Thats how i read their statement. Simple as that.

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Kevadu
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:41:29 PM

I completely agree with you, dfoz3. I very nearly made a similar post earlier but I decided I just didn't want to get into it. But since you brought it up...

The double standard here is astounding. Although they used different words to express it, the reasoning of the two companies is basically the same. So to be fair we should all be flaming Sucker Punch now, right? ;)

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:45:55 PM

@dfoz3 (but really all he is saying is that he wants to have fun rather than worry about Sony's more complicated architecture.)

Then why didn't he just say that and leave out the insults and blame. You basically answered your own question. I don't hear Sucker Punch saying we don't want to make games for MS because they have an achievements or avatar fetish. I don't know if you realize this but, their are professional statements like this one and unprofessional statements like Valve's.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 6/11/2009 1:52:50 PM

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:46:04 PM

@dfoz3 (but really all he is saying is that he wants to have fun rather than worry about Sony's more complicated architecture.)

Then why didn't he just say that. You basically answered you own question.

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dfoz3
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:59:25 PM

@EVILINCARNATE-

Obviously I am just spinning my tires here but I simply paraphrased what Valve said rather than "answering my own question" as you seem to think.

I guess the difference here is that I enjoy Valve's games both on PC and the 360. Everyone else here that is bashing them for their remarks are Sony Fanboys that either haven't had the opportunity to properly enjoy their games or blindly hate them for the simple fact that they develop for the rival console.

As I have had to state before, I am no fanboy of any system. I love gaming on any and all platforms that offer quality games. Valve's games are quality games and millions of sales support that opinion.

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vicious54
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:59:37 PM

Valve is like Michael Moore, fat and annoying that is probably why no one likes them.

What Valve said, is that they are not willing to learn anything new and you have SP who said they don't want to dull their game any. What is so similar about the two statements.

I don't want to insult your intelligence but come on you are reaching.

Last edited by vicious54 on 6/11/2009 2:04:33 PM

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Oyashiro
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:00:10 PM

Its not quite the same.

SP Is basically saying that regardless of platform, developing exclusively allows you concentrate on a project without worrying how it will work out on a different console. Thus letting you polish a game to the strengths of the system without compensating for another.

Valve is saying flat out that PS3 is too complicated and not worth their time. It might just be the poorly worded, but Leonard made it out to be Sony's fault and not Valves for being a poor developer.

SP: Exclusives, regardless of platform are great.
Valve: PS3 is too hard to program for so we are going to ignore it.

There is a difference. I fully believe if they wanted to SP could make a great 360 game, Valve with PS3...not so much.

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:08:47 PM

@dfoz3 I do not mind Valve at all! I use steam often and believe they do offer valuable services and software. But I will not defend poorly worded statements from any person in a professional field during an interview. Including Sony! If you say something stupid you should catch flak for it.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 6/11/2009 2:14:52 PM

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Fabi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:53:23 PM

It's a different statement dude.

Valve said because the PS3 is difficult to code for, they are too lazy to do it.

Sucker Punch said it doesn't matter which platform it's on, they will learn it, but they will only concentrate on making a game for that system to get the most out of it.

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RadioHeader
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:24:58 PM

You guys almost got into a PS3 versus PS3 war. Are the xbots extinct?

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King James
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:41:18 PM

Ladies & Gentleman:
This plane has now been HI-JACKED. PLZ remained seated with your seatbelt fastened.

Last edited by King James on 6/11/2009 5:43:36 PM

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somethingrandom
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 12:28:13 AM

If Valve was making PS3 exclusives only, you would support them. You know, maybe Valve is just a little frustrated that investing in the PS3 market would cost so much because of Sony's vastly different architecture. You have to look at it from their point of view. I swear, if you guys don't quit this biased bull-crap I'll become a new JoshuaAdam360, and I hated that guy.

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mexgeo86
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:43:07 AM
Reply

Quality vs Quantity

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Jawknee
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:54:40 AM

Exactly my point. There are few developers left that have this mind set. Slowely all the great developers have been going to way of Quantity and their games have suffered as a resault. Best example this generation is Resident Evil 5. What a piece that game turned out to be. you can finish it in 3 hours if you rush. pathetic.

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SPS3
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:48:47 AM
Reply

Sweet sweet music to my ears SP. Id rather have inFamous than L4D2 and day! Now how about some next-gen Sly Cooper sequels!

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RustEDalex
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:09:50 PM
Reply

yeah and it sucks bowls when the PS3 get the inferior of the multiplatform game, but hopefully thing will change as soon as FF XIII comes out

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Jawknee
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:28:32 PM

well see. Im starting to worry about FFXIII. it looks great but its not looking as good as i would expect it to look for a game thats supposed to be using "100% of the PS3's power". MGS4 and KZ2 look better. FF Versus XIII looks like it might be better as well.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:34:23 PM

The PS3 hasn't gotten an inferior multiplat version of anything in quite some time. This isn't 2007.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 6/11/2009 12:34:34 PM

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RustEDalex
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:42:08 PM

prototype had a bug in it but that's it,so I guess your right:)

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Jawknee
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:52:26 PM

Ben, i wasnt very happy with RE5 on the PS3. I played both versions, and the 360 version i noticed ran a smoother. The particle effects, self shadowing and lighting effects were much better and the frame rate didnt chug as much when turning corners and throwing grenades into large groups. Small things but i did notice it the PS3 version didnt hold as much quality as the 360. The 360 version had more screen tearing but no too noticable.

But your right, most games that have been out lately have been much better. CoD is great on both platforms. Dead Space was identical as well.

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shadowpal2
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:22:47 PM
Reply

Hmmm...wow...exclusive projects tend to be better??!?! Really?!?! I mean only great games such as MGS 4, Killzone 2, and Uncharted came out in the past.

And Rockstar just recently said how staying exclusive can help the buildup of a franchise with their new game coming up.

I can't believe this, another developer is stating that exclusive projects cane help development for that game!

This was a while back...but even Nomura-sama and his team said this about FF Versus XIII - http://ps3.ign.com/articles/837/837350p1.html.

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napoleon85
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:25:29 PM
Reply

If Valve would have used this tone of voice (as per the article above) when commenting their very personal point of views towards the PS3, no crap would have been thrown at them at all. I'm amazed on how Sucker punch manages to have this invaluable business culture. "it's a for profit business and we have a business model that leads us in that direction, but you do have to be careful about being greedy." There are simply almost no companies left that would share these type of values. I really wish them good luck with their next projects and hope they keep the good relationships with Sony.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:51:37 PM

Who cares what "tone" they used. They were correct and stood behind their reasoning. I'm sorry they didn't sugar coat it for you.

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Oyashiro
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:21:29 PM

What Valve gave was not reason, It was an excuse to hide their inability to adapt to other platforms.

"PS3 is too hard to develop for" stopped being a valid reason a while ago when developers much smaller then Valve began to release and announce games for it.

Last edited by Oyashiro on 6/11/2009 2:27:07 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:16:39 PM

Oyashiro,

Since when does a company have to develop for every platform? Regardless of Valve's reasoning the only thing people are pissed about is it's the PS3 that's getting left out. Take offense at being left out, not at Valve's strategy. There is nothing wrong with not supporting every platform. Valve clearly would rather spend time creating games for the PC and trickle those games down to the 360, as a PS3 owner I do not have a problem with that.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/11/2009 4:18:59 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:06:53 PM

They were incorrect, unless they were taking a jab at themselves. No one else is having trouble with the system anymore.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:14:36 PM

Since they have never developed a game for the system I don't see how you can deny their resistance in wanting to dive into the process.

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napoleon85
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 6:30:09 PM

I didn't take Valve's statement personal at all and hence my feelings aren't hurt (lol...). As I stated on Valve's article, they're just being completely unprofessional (in a business perspective). Unfortunately business relationships are not ensured forever. Hence, Valve better keep a healthy relationship with Microsoft from now on. Throwing away potential opportunities with other companies to the garbage doesn't seem like a smart move these days.
Best regards.

Last edited by napoleon85 on 6/11/2009 6:42:54 PM

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Deleted User
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:25:59 PM
Reply

I didnt care much for the Infamous demo, but I agree with the statement, either on PS3 or the 360, exclusives will always be better than multiplatform

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MarvelZombies
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:31:27 PM
Reply

I would love to see a developer like this make a multi-platform game and have a higher quality game with better rendering and frame rate on PS3 than 360...that would really stir things up

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:51:13 PM

Personally, I don't wish for crappy ports on anyone. It sucks to waste your hard earned cash on a poor quality product. People have to remember how frustrating it was to constantly hear how crappy your product was compared to the next guy's.

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Jawknee
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 12:54:35 PM

goodness, the Orange Box. Pathetic port to the PS3.

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SkantDragon
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 1:18:22 PM
Reply

As a software engineer who has worked on cross platform software before, I can say... oh yes. Cross platform is an expensive feature that impacts everything you're trying to do. It's always there like shackles.

It's not just a matter of leaving out features one platform can do that another can't. It changes the whole way you architect the system. It gets divided into common code and platform specific code, for instance. And so you're constantly having to deal with that.

I've heard game developers claim that cross platform only increases cost by about 20%. In terms of man hours, I don't doubt it. But there's also a price paid in the overall quality of the title which is very hard to measure. You can only guess how the game development would have gone if the developers didn't have the multiplatform hurdle as well.

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Scarecrow
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:28:24 PM
Reply

I will make it my mission to get all the Sly Cooper games(ALWAYS WANTED TO!). Played the first one and have great memories from it.

And they're completely right

It further proves what we like 'bout Playstation and what we used to also like 'bout Nintendo.

The quality of first and second party games! Exclusives that are part of that console and takes advantage of what that console can do.

I also think that the controllers also matter.

For Playstation you can always utilize the d-pad and two VERY COMFORTABLE analog sticks plus two shoulder buttons. It really does matter.

Anyway Infamous!!!

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Fane1024
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:20:16 PM

Re: controllers

Agreed. I hate it when games are designed for the 360 (and previously Xbox) controller and then sloppily "ported" to the DS3 (DS2), not taking advantage of the superior layout.

Example: I just played the FEAR2 demo and it had the trigger assigned to R2, rather than R1, because it's in the same position as the trigger on the 360 controller. Problem is, that's not as comfortable/natural on the DS3.

Another example: the last-gen Prince of Persia games didn't use all four shoulder buttons for different action/time control moves because the Xbox and Cube controllers didn't have four corresponding buttons. Instead, they map the "view changes" to those buttons, rather than to L3/R3 or whatever.

Developers: make proper use of the input interface for each system!

Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/11/2009 5:21:52 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:48:37 PM
Reply

No more defense of Valve. They've got Half-Life and that's it. L4D if you want to stretch it. They've done next to nothing that has impressed me in about five years, I don't give two sh*** if they ever develop anything for the PS3, and they remain one of the most BIASED studios on earth.

Sucker Punch isn't biased. Valve - and their head moron Gabe Newell - have made some of the most retarded, insulting statements I've ever heard in this industry. No, I don't respect ANYTHING they do.

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Fabi
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 2:56:18 PM

Half Life 2 is one of my favorite games of all times. I cannot deny it. But I do hate Valve.

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Hexen
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 3:17:02 PM

Half-life 2 was a gem and so was TF2 but when a company (continuously) make stupid statements I can't overlooked it just because I liked their games.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 3:57:57 PM

Ben Valve makes games that last for years. TF2 alone will last for another 5 years. You're just pissed because they refuse to develop games for the PS3. There are hundreds of thousands of people every minute playing TF2,L4D, and CSS around the world. Valve must be doing something right. Sorry it doesn't involve the PS3.

I think you're being VERY biased in your reasoning. As an owner of every Sony gaming product and a PC aswell I don't think I'm out of line in this assumption.

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Jawknee
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:11:36 PM

actually LimitedVertigo i havent touched Counter Strike or Half Life in years.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:17:18 PM

I guess then you're not one of the hundreds of thousands, congrats.

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:21:28 PM

@LimitedVertigo I believe you are also being VERY biased in your reasoning. You seem to go out of your way to defend them even if their in the wrong. Which in this case they are!

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Highlander
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:29:45 PM

@LV

Valve makes the same game for years. How many times will Half Life 2 get recycled?

You repeatedly make this point about how their game engine had been refined and refined and refined. I can't help wondering then when you will admit that Left 4 Dead is essentially a re-skinned Half Life 2 game?

Seriously, I know I'm poking fun, but come on, Valve is a one trick pony. When developers far, far smaller than Valve are pushing out fully realized PS3 titles, Valve has no excuse for even suggesting that PS3 is too hard for them.

Yes, Ben is being very opinionated, with regard to Valve and Gabe Newel. However let's be honest here, Gabe Newel and Valve as an entity have done much to deserve such an opinionated reaction. Newel's own statements with regard to PS3 have been derogatory, insulting and contain inaccuracies that betray his lack of knowledge about the platform. When others at Valve say similar things, it seems clear that the attitude is not limited to Gabe Newell.

As a gamer, a geek and a technologist, I can't help but be really quite disappointed with developers who bleat about the PS3 being too hard. Poor, piss poor. What was it Kennedy said about going to the moon? "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." In other words have ambition, try new and difficult things, don't accept short comings and choose the easy path, challenge yourself to do better.

How little ambition does Gabe Newel and his cohort at Valve have? Yes it's easier and cheaper to stick to what you know, but it represents a total lack of ambition, and no real faith in the ability of your people to do better. Shameful.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/11/2009 4:30:29 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:34:02 PM

Evilincarnate,

On the thread related to Valve's comments about not developing for the PS3 I admitted their choice of words was wrong. I'm simply pointing out that instead of people finding fault in their comments they're deciding to bash the developer as a game maker. Go ahead and find fault in their words but they have nothing to do with their body of work (which has been amazing).

Valve choosing to not develop games for the PS3 DOES NOT mean their games suck or their future games will be bad.

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:34:51 PM

@TheHighlanderow that was a great comment. If there was a comment of the month that would have won it.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:45:01 PM

Highlander,

You keep mentioning Valve's game engine. I admit it's an old engine (coming up on 5 years old). But game play is the most important thing and Valve continues to pump out gems. I don't care if LFD doesn't look like the best game ever made. When I'm screaming for dear life while blasting some zombies with my best friends I'm not worried about how many polygons are on screen.

How is HalfLife2 getting recycled? The two episodes already released had both great gameplay and storyline for a reduced price.

Starcraft is a perfect example of a game having brilliant game play and less than great graphics. Clearly people care more about game play than graphics since the source engine has not effected Valve's game sales. I don't see blizzard supporting the PS3, at least Valve voices a reason.

Valve is a PC game developer, it's common knowledge that the 360 is basically a mini computer.

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Dustinwp
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 4:48:06 PM

@LimitedVertigo I do not disagree with that. I do believe it's the back lash of poorly worded statements. People are passionate about gaming and Valve should know this more than anyone. That's why I cannot excuse their crappy choice of words and neither should anyone else.

When you do interviews or meet clients you are representing your company through words and your attitude. Valve has not been very careful how they represent themselves to the Sony consumer. That's why people are starting to think their attitude towards Sony sucks.

Last edited by Dustinwp on 6/11/2009 4:48:55 PM

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Highlander
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:23:03 PM

@LV

"Valve is a PC game developer, it's common knowledge that the 360 is basically a mini computer."

Say what? A 'mini-computer' is conventionally considered to be a step down from a mainframe. The Xbox360 is no such thing. Are you trying to say that because the 360 is different to a PC that we should all stop criticizing Valve as one trick ponies because they develop on both 360 and PC, thus showing their great flexibility?

The two key differences between a conventional PC and Xbox 360 are the Xbox use of a unified memory architecture for video and system memory on the 360, and the use of a CPU that's not an x86. With PCs video memory typically resides on a separate system board along with the GPU, unless the PC owner is saddled with an integrated video chipset that uses UMA to allocate some system memory as video memory.

Now the thing is, unless Valve and others have recently taken to coding megabytes of assembly code by hand, they're using compilers, high level languages and development tools/libraries not unlike those used on PCs. Of course Microsoft has brought a lot of the software development tools from the PC world to the 360 development environment, which is why it's a familiar environment.

Being a PC centric developer today has less to do with actual hardware, and more to do with the OS and the developer support offered. In this regard, Microsoft is obviously uniquely well positioned to make the 360 somewhat familiar to PC developers.

So, all in all, the 360 is an easier platform for PC developers since they do not have the learning curve of learning a new development environment, and the impact of the 360's different hardware environment is minimized by the tools. Which brings me back to Valve and choosing the easy path.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:31:04 PM

TheHighlander,

Believe me, you make great points. The problem I see is your thinking far into it. I understand that at the basics Valve could code a product for the PS3. They simply choose not to. They make great products and they wish not to expand their library to another existing platform. Can't we just agree to disagree? I respect your points and you come off quite knowledgeable in terms of computers. You might see Valve's decision wrong related to a business standpoint but I don't see it having any effect on the quality of the content they produce.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/11/2009 5:32:25 PM

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Highlander
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 10:17:18 PM

@LV

For me, it's less of an issue with Valve than it is an issue with Gabe Newell. He's made numerous very critical statements in the past, statements that were really out there and factually deficient, and he's never bothered to retract or correct himself. He could have, he just never has. I know he's softened his stance somewhat in more recent times. He comes across like a typical fanboy, and yet he's an industry leader who's views theoretically matter. In his position, being a fanboy is very much counter productive. I wish people could live up to their stature more, but people are imperfect and do not.

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somethingrandom
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 12:48:04 AM

Holy crap Ben, you are so biased on this that you don't realize that Valve does games other than Half-Life and L4D. Play Portal! It's a good six hours, available as part of The Orange Box, or <$20 on PC. Ben, calm down. It's easy to trash talk something you've NEVER TRIED. I did not know it was possible to be a video game developer fanboy, but you most certainly are living proof. You know, it's kind of like the losers who go out and buy an XBOX and bash all the PS3 owners when they've never used one! Quit pissing me off! Why the hell do you talk about Valve when you obviously know nothing about them? All you should care about is quality of games anyway, not what some idiot says to the press...

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somethingrandom
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 12:50:46 AM

@ The Highlander
I know you are definitely very smart, but you just aren't quite there (extra emphasis on "there") in your comments. It's just something about you that I just can't get along with.

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Victor321
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 3:24:11 PM
Reply

I've known their Sly Cooper games, but never bought any of them as they didn't appeal to me, but Infamous is a must buy for me, so I've officially jumped on the "Sucker Punch supporters" bandwagon.

I respect SP's opinion, even if they go make an exclusive on another platform.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:07:21 PM
Reply

Damnit Vertigo, I said STOP before and I meant it.

I don't like HL and never have. Sorry. I don't worship at the altar of Valve, and I REALLY don't care if you do. Have fun. Just STOP trying to convince everyone they're "wrong" because they don't like them. I've ALWAYS hated Valve, well before the PS3, so shut it.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:15:21 PM

WOW

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Scarecrow
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 9:29:49 PM

Aye aye

Vertigo needs to understand the difference between how a console gamer sees PC games.

We console gamers play every genre that exists in v-game history.

Most PC gamers play FPSs, RTSs, and MMORPGs.

IN fact FPSs is one of the things I hate in this generation, and something which will hopefully die out in the console scene.

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LimitedVertigo
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 12:49:19 AM

It works both ways ScareCrow. From a PC standpoint a PC gamer could careless about a FPS for a console, a PC gamer that also plays consoles cares more about other genres on the console platforms.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:16:12 PM
Reply

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about Sucker Punch? All I know is I've never even played Sly Cooper but infamous is straight up glossy and I can't imagine how bad it would have suffered had it been cut down to the lowest common denominator. SP is going places, if you wanna beat this Valve thing to death I'd say no, they aren't going any place but backwards. Why do you think everyone is so pissed about L4D2? Because Valve are being douches for one.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:18:41 PM

I'm not allowed to comment in response to your questions.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/11/2009 5:19:24 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:52:15 PM

No, you're not allowed to browbeat people into submission around here, just because they don't like what you do.

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:42:01 PM

Ben you came right out and said you hate Valve. How is that not being completely biased? I'm simply offering my opinion as a counter to others. Isn't that the point of discussion?

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Jawknee
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 10:13:34 AM

LV Ben can be biased if he wants. he runs the site.

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LimitedVertigo
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 12:12:30 PM

Jawknee,

That's a cop out, that simply hinders discussion.

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somethingrandom
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 12:35:45 AM

Ben, just be reasonable...

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Kai200X
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:18:47 PM
Reply

That's why I love them! and that's why I supported inFamous but not Prototype (at least not right away)

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Totalz
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:19:57 PM
Reply

Valve are a bunch of moron-ass sh*ts...and Gabe Newell is a big fat w*nker.

The reason for them doing 360 and PC only games is not simply monetary based, or even loyalty, it's just downright laziness: which is worse than anything. I sure hope one day that the fact that they only make games for one console will come back to haunt them...Or they can all just crawl up in a hole and die whilst gently shoving the Half Life box set slowly up Gabe Newell's flabby ass!

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King James
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:32:07 PM
Reply

I'm surprised that one guys comment totally derailed this post into what we already discussed last time.

-Dfoz, yes that it ironic. But Valve blasts Sony for making it "hard", Sucker Punch didn't.
-Vertigo, let it go.
-Highlander, you said exactly what I was getting at last post with the Gmod stuff.
- And Ben, good post as usual.

P.S. Valve can eat a hot bag of hydrogen gas. Switch it up Valve! Return to greatness, plz.

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LimitedVertigo
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 12:50:01 AM

I know you love me.

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tes37
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:32:17 PM
Reply

Sucker Punch earned every penny of what I spent on infamous. I can't wait to see what they're going to do next.

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TEG3SH
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 5:50:56 PM
Reply

the difference is sucker punch is awesomw with the likes of infamous and valve is a **in stupid game developer . so SP is good VALVE IS BAD
and why the hell cant i get a GUY FROM THIS SITE to reply to my post damnit
PS. i got the UNCHARTED 2 BETA and it is awesome.TBH
cheers

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Banky A
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 3:54:13 AM

Ohai ^_^

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Deleted User
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 6:07:25 PM
Reply

Sucker Punch Productions is full of hard working, real people who love games and are devoted to their craft.

Valve is led by a man who epitomizes laziness.

BTW, if you want to read what I think of the Xbots who constantly harass Ben, Arnold and the rest of us, just Google Brian Ghattas and the first link should lead to my ode to Jeff Foxworthy: You might be an Xbot...

I think many will agree that it's quite an honest take on Microsoft's 3.5 year journey with their lemon.

Last edited by n/a on 6/11/2009 6:12:24 PM

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tes37
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 6:43:18 PM

Checked it out. That opening sentence made me lmao. Thumbs up!

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BikerSaint
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 8:25:57 PM

Checked it too,
Good, & funny post there!

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Banky A
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 4:04:46 AM

Awesome man, but those two douches who commented on it took it way too seriously.

^_^

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Deleted User
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 7:45:39 AM

The people on that website think that money pit they invested in was "well worth it". They are a site that needs the support of MS to stay afloat. I can add even more, I plan to do so.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:22:52 AM

every developers if full of good hardworking people... and they are all real to

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PSN _HAITIAN_JB
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 7:44:06 PM
Reply

Lmao!!!
Hey LimitedVertigo I hate VALVE I dare you to say something...

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:43:32 PM

With that statement it's hard for anyone to take anything you say as a logical comment in regards to anything they've done.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:19:51 AM

you hate great games = you love crappy games?

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eLLeJuss
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 8:01:05 PM
Reply

Only game i loved from valve was counter strike :).

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:52:32 PM

10 years running

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BikerSaint
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 8:01:22 PM
Reply

Valve's insulting statement was like monkeys at a zoo, throwing feces at the paying customers.

Sucker Punch is the mighty Silver back that don't need to involve itself in any shit-slinging.

Just listen a moment Valve.....you can almost hear how inFamous is doing Sucker Punch's chest-pounding for them!!!!

"Sucker Punch Sally has become a Kong-Kong" of the gaming world"!


So Valve, come on Lil guy, why don't you just climb down from that branch of self pity... here's a banana!

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:18:44 AM

250k is not chest pounding... it's good, but it's not chest pounding good... maybe fist bumbing good

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Alienange
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 8:04:47 PM
Reply

SP has intrigued me with their statements. When you look at the console specific exclusives it kinda proves the point too. They're awesome. No one wants RE5 on the Wii and many are downright upset about how short it was on the other systems. Could it have been a better game if it was exclusive? Look at friggin' Ghost Busters. Tell me you're buying the Wii version over one of the HD versions. Could it be that even between 360 and PS3 that there would be a lot more high quality games if devs just focused on one console... man... that's a thought. And wouldn't it also sell more consoles too?

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Scarecrow
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 9:31:50 PM
Reply

Valve is in 2001 when devs were crying 'bout how hard it is to make games for Playstation 2

^True story

Last edited by Scarecrow on 6/11/2009 9:32:04 PM

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Karosso
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 10:53:11 PM
Reply

Since that stupid, fat, lazy, delusional, egomaniac, boring, arrogant, mountain of fat said that "Sony should just scrap the PS3 and do something else", I really don't care much about anything else he says.
Too sad, I loved them from the time HL came out but, they let fame and too much praise get it their heads and now they really think too much of themselves.
Since HL2, they have done nothing great or different and there are tons of developers that are so much better them they are right now.
So infinity Ward can make CoD4:MW great on two consoles and PCs and the so great Valve can't handle it? That tells me how great a developer they are... NOT!

Last edited by Karosso on 6/11/2009 10:53:42 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Thursday, June 11, 2009 @ 11:44:35 PM

Ya you're right there are a ton of games out there just like L4D...

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Jawknee
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 10:14:05 AM

Left for Dead is over rated.

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somethingrandom
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 12:30:59 AM

L4D is not over-rated. So you think Portal is not new or innovative? You've seen games like it before?

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pillz81
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 6:53:38 PM

somethingrandom, you may not think it is overrated but their are likely to be many people who will say that it IS. Fact.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:13:40 AM

Valve is small... Activision is not... they have the resources to give Infinity Ward two teams to work on Modern Warfare.

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Banky A
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 3:57:11 AM
Reply

Good debate folks ;)
Even though it was unanimous from the get-go'.

-Signature-

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TEG3SH
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 5:12:10 AM
Reply

thanks banky
i thought i was like invisible or sthn.lol
anyway cheers
and why the hell is everyone attacking limvertigo
he is not gabe . i guess ;)

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hobbes
Friday, June 12, 2009 @ 9:39:17 PM
Reply

Holy hell...a post about Sucker Punch ends up being "Valve is lazy" 2.0.

It ultimately doesn't matter who says what. Almost all of us are hardcore gamers that will buy a quality game regardless of its origin or destination. What a developer says is completely irrelevant to the actual game.

Sucker Punch likes to focus on a single platform. Valve likes to eat Cheetos while not working on something truly NEW. Whoop-de-doo! So long as we get some great games it doesn't matter what the gasbags say.

Vertigo, you seem like an intelligent guy. Honestly, you do. But you've been beating the horse for a while now and it's starting to stink. There comes a time when reasonable people have to be unreasonable and let it go. Continually telling people how great Valve is doesn't make it so. You can lead a horse to water, yada, yada, yada.

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hobbes
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 12:01:48 AM

I just came back to see if there was more discussion and I realized that I had two horse cliches in a paragraph...YEESH!

Last edited by hobbes on 6/13/2009 12:02:08 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 2:38:39 AM

I'm not simply saying Valve is great but pointing out there total game sales as well as all the critical praise and awards they've been given should speak for itself. Evidently not wanting to develop for the PS3 means nothing they've done matters on any other platform to some people on this site.


If people are going to continue to blast something with little to no logic than I sometimes feel the need to give my 2 cents. Okay more like 78 cents, but you know what I mean. I agree I'm not letting it go and I should. I will from now on, I promise.

Oh and btw I liked the horse comment :)


Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/13/2009 2:40:56 AM

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TEG3SH
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 2:13:16 AM
Reply

^^^^^^ so what are ur thoughts about abortion????
lol JK

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LimitedVertigo
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 2:41:38 AM

Totally against it unless you're on vacation in Canada.

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TEG3SH
Saturday, June 13, 2009 @ 4:00:47 PM
Reply

my comment was aimed at hobbes
anyways nice to know
for the record i love CS and L4D so by default i somehow like valve but no one can disagree that they are naughty(a little gay. no sir a little drunk) ;)

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pillz81
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 7:15:44 PM
Reply

I'm thinking the people at Valve's heads would just explode at the thought of making a PS3 game. So are they too small as a company like Newell said or is it too hard to be able to make a PS3 port or original game? I'm confused.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:25:00 AM

Valve is really really small... look how long it took them to get Eps 2 out!

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ralph89
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:20:51 AM
Reply

The only reason valve sold that sh*& load of game is because of their product. They have banned thousands of people at steam and those people who got banned need to buy another copy of their favorite game like counter strike or half life etc. I myself are on my 3rd counter strike 1.6, 2nd on CS source and Half life 2, because I got banned for no reason.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:11:55 AM
Reply

I remember talking to a dev on the problems of multiplatform development and the strengths and weaknesses of each platform really can cause problems if you can't dedicate two seperate teams to work on each platforms strengths. That's what Activision does with Moder Warfare and that's why it's stellar on both systems.

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Battousai
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:38:47 PM
Reply

I agree with Cueil, and that's also why Kojima isn't using the MGS4 engine for Rising. Kojima is a perfectionist and I think we can all agree he is not lazy. I personally own both a PS3 and a 360 and lately multiplatform games have come down to 1080i support and which controller feels more natural for the game. 1080i native is something I have issue with Sucker Punch for not including support for with Infamous and I to make things worse there are no future plans to offer a 1080i patch to scale the game. The latter option a difficult one given the PS3's limited scaler and added work it forces on a dev. This is were Sony more than Sucker Punch lets me down. I shouldn't be forced to play in 480i/p or to have to buy a new hdtv. Anyway, given Sucker Punch's focus on the PS3 for Infamous, I can't help but feel they were well aware of what the ps3 would do if there wasn't a 720p option and chose to do nothing about it. That bothers me more than what system they dev a game for.

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