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Hostility Among Gamers Runs Rampant

I've written pieces dedicated to similar topics in the past; the surprisingly hostile attacks between the so-called "fanboys" of our industry is one example, but I've noticed something else lately: it's not just fanboys and haters...seemingly, it's almost everyone involved. What's going on?

If you are a frequenter of various enthusiast forums around the Internet, you will notice something disturbing. There are message boards dedicated to just about anything, ranging from lawnmower racing to hardcore reptile lovers. Obviously, the people who contribute to such places are fans of the subject in question, so one would assume that everyone would - for the most part - get along swimmingly. Such places are often great for inside information, chatting with those who share a passion, etc. However, one notices a marked difference when visiting the standard video game forum, and it doesn't seem to matter where it is or what they're talking about: hostility is the dominant form of expression.

A while back, I attributed this to nothing more than age. When you get a bunch of pre-teens and teens together who can't be seen or heard through a video screen, and who likely have massive inferiority/superiority complexes due to being social outcasts, it's inevitable. But we've gotten to a point in this industry where the average age of a gamer is approaching 35 years of age (I'm 30 myself), and things aren't getting better...they're actually getting worse. If someone disagrees these days, the very first reply is so loaded with venom and hatred, it's almost impossible to believe that both people supposedly enjoy the same hobby. I've often thought the haters must abhor picking up a controller; they despise everything they see, just because they're "l33t" and know more than every developer and critic on earth. Hence, they only see every negative facet of the production and in turn, focus only on the negatives when dealing with a person.

But why is this happening so often? Has everyone accepted hatred as the common basis for communication when video games are discussed on the Internet? There's no respect, constant suspicion, a recurring and childish belief that "I know more than you" and in general, it's like watching one giant bashfest. Some will say in defense of this behavior that it's "all in fun," but I fail to locate the amusement. Even so-called journalists - or the bloggers posing as journalists, and who, in all actuality, haven't left their mother's basement - are routinely insulting everything they see. Obviously, this could be considered a standard marketing tactic, as they must've noticed that hostility is the only thing gamers recognize anymore. There's only one final aspect to this that confuses me: if you get all these people in a room together, you'd expect it to erupt in a brawl, but instead, they'd all stand there, avoiding glances and looking at shoelaces. Why? Because they're little more than children in semi-adult bodies.

Really, this has to stop. Normally, I don't mind telling people what I do for a living, but it's getting to the point where I don't want them to do any research of their own. All they'll find is the most vile, disgusting, unappealing group of "fans" they've ever had the misfortune to see blast away at each other on a screen. It's just plain embarrassing. All I can say is, "stick to PSXE where we just don't allow any of that, and yet, still seem to get plenty of Comments." It's not impossible to control, but you do have to be diligent and it appears as if we're the only site in existence that remains mostly breezy, civil and laid-back. This isn't a veiled promotion; it's just a statement of fact- for the most part, gamers only wish to attack one another when online, and it isn't helping this industry's image. It really, really isn't. Congratulations on giving more ammunition to the anti-game activists who say violence in video games causes adverse behavior.

If it doesn't, something must be causing this...

6/14/2009 Ben Dutka

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Comments (187 posts)

Jed
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:15:26 PM
Reply

shut up yu facking retar. If I were where you where I should pwn yer azz. U R such a n00b. xbox the sh*t an u no it.

That summerizes about half of the gaming sites on the internet. That is why I only pay attention to this site and a very small list of others. The idiots that leave hostile comments are bad, but the people that act like they are journalists are the worst. I wish more websites would take care of the community like you guys do.

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shadowpal2
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 7:20:05 AM

seriously...you have to think whether or not these people actually have money invested in these companies to have so much hate in this troubled economy.

But of course....99% of them DON'T, because they can't even make enough to get their clothes cleaned at the laundromat. (Assuming that is...that most of them do live in a basement, which again...is VERY LIKELY)

(sigh!)...it sickens me.

Last edited by shadowpal2 on 6/15/2009 7:21:34 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:16:16 PM
Reply

While what you say is clearly true and I haven't the slightest idea why it's there I think we need only point to the latest soccer riot to see that it's universal with fans.

What I'd really like to discuss is how this behavior has spread like wildfire to developers and publishers themselves. How are gamers to react when the developers openly or in a veiled manner bash on another competing game. Of course it'll get fanboys in an uproar and purists pointing out the most infinitesimal details that makes one better than the other. I swear they might have to have the CEOs of MS and Sony just duke it out in the ring to solve this thing!

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 6/14/2009 11:17:14 PM

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Kowhoho
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:38:36 PM

I was actually around to see a soccer riot in Switzerland once! Everybody had to take shelter in the hotel! Funny stuff. Funny to anyone not stuck between a rioter carrying a trash can and the electronics store window their about to break, that is!

Last edited by Kowhoho on 6/14/2009 11:38:56 PM

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King James
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:40:21 PM

LOL. I can see the ads for the fight now:

"The rumble for your Rumble-controller!!"
"The thriller for your home theatre!!"
"The fight for first!"

Who will claim victory in this epic battle royale and be crowned the GRAND PWNER of the video game industry?! 3 company CEOs go in! Only one will leave! It will be a RRoD! Only theres no warranty to save them now! Who will win?

Dial 1-888-GO-NINTY to vote for Nintendo
Dial 1-888-RROD-DEM for Microsoft
Dial 1-888-PS-4-EVER for Sony

Call Pay-Per-View for pricing.

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Scarecrow
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:43:11 PM

So true
So freaking true

You also just reminded me why I always liked Sony, Sega, and Nintendo going at it.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:10:14 AM

haha, that's some good stuff King James.

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WolfCrimson
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:36:30 AM

loooooooooool, pure win, king james :P

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PSNclaw18
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 7:09:49 AM

I also believe that when the hardware developers themselves do that bashing and trash talk (ahem M$) that it trickles down to the masses. I'm sure the people out there are consciously or subconsciously thinking, "well, if M$ is doing it, then it must be all right" or the "thing to do."

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Orvisman
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 10:24:25 AM

You're right. Any wonder why it is mostly 360 fans who start the bulk of flame wars?

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NiteKrawler
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 11:42:38 PM

Super lols from King James.

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Rottness
Tuesday, June 23, 2009 @ 12:41:35 AM

Though I see the valid point that PSNclaw18 makes about "**** rolling down hill" from the large companies, I have to respectfully disagree (since that is what this whole article was about) with Orvisman that Xbox fans are the instigators of "most" of the hostility. In my experience across the internet Fanboys of any of the 3 systems are equally as likely to start spouting some inflammatory comments which only cause more and more people to hop on the band wagon. This really is an absurd situation that we are in. I love playing video games. I have loved them since I was little playing the NES. And, for the most part, I love playing them on every system... i would bet that if you gave a "fanboy" of any system a honestly good game for them to play they would like it. I mean that is what this whole industry is all about right, the games? Why does it matter which system is the best when really the games are what mater?

(I know I kinda went off on 2 different topics there)

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King James
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:20:34 PM
Reply

Hmmm...What made you right this Ben? U see or read something?

I agree. I dont mind ppl disagreeing with me. I don't mind ppl telling me I'm wrong. Why? Because I always think before I speak (or in the case type). That means that I took the time to form an educated, strong opinion about these games.

We all game. We all like to do it. We don't have to agree on everything. We can agree to disagree. Isn't that right, Vertigo or Wolf or Alienage? lol.

PSXE FTW

Last edited by King James on 6/14/2009 11:22:27 PM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:03:04 AM

I come here to read about games and inform myself a little based on others comments. I personally think Ben's overreacting. I assume this because he felt the need to sit down and write an article about it. People are selfish by nature, of course there are going to be mean spirited posts full of ignorance. Welcome to the internet.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:13:45 AM

@ Vertigo, I don't think dude's overreacting for the simple reason that it's getting worse every generation. I know there have always been console wars but Sega Vs Ninty back in the day is nothing like the hatred between Sony and MS fans this go around. I swear someone is gonna get killed soon.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:21:03 AM

Several people were killed during the PS2's early years. People have died every generation due to video game related situations. Just because the internet has grown to allow for more people to vent their hate towards those with different viewpoints does not mean it's time to worry. People have been ignorant and selfish since well humans can remember, I don't see what the big deal is.

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BikerSaint
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:22:36 AM

@KingJames,
Amen to that!
I could care less if someone disagrees with another.
But when a few trolls just have to add in something about "You're all idiots cause you don't like it", like a few trolls have done in the past, then I will call them on it.

Now with that said, I %&%$^%& hate all $&^%#^$% consoles, except for the one I own!
OH WAIT, I already own almost all of them, LOL

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King James
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:50:03 AM

And of course Vertigo...I disagree. I think Ben & PSXE is rarely rated at all. Therefore, underrated.

lol, U guys just reminded me about the "Xbox killer" joke they did on The Boondocks.

Thats some colorful swearing right there BikerSaint.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:56:17 AM

@King James

"And of course Vertigo...I disagree. I think Ben & PSXE is rarely rated at all. Therefore, underrated."


Not quite sure I understand what you're getting at. I love this site and it's in my top 3 game sites I go to every day. I find myself posting on here far more since there seem to be more educated people when it comes to gaming and I like that. I was not meaning to undermine Ben or this site at all with my post, I simply thought related to the thread topic that he was overreacting. That's all.

::hugs::

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:50:24 AM

Well I've heard of people dying due to stolen consoles etc, but never from a straight out fanboy argument.

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Alienange
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:16:26 PM

Sorry for being late to the party but yeah ! Agree to disagree and all that! Because fans won't agree on every game, but sooner or later they do agree on one and suddenly they're the best of friends. Ask Jawknee... no wait bad example.

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kokoro
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:32:23 PM
Reply

One thing that I find interesting is that almost all forms of fanboyism seem to be centred on (or stem from) the xbox. I don't really recall such hostily being present during the PS1/N64 era. One thing that may have allowed this to grow is Microsoft's constant verbal attacks against Sony.

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Scarecrow
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:51:43 PM

Exactly!

That generation was more of a rivalry
Now it's just sheer stupidity

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Doosharm
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:08:41 AM

I agree. But the weird thing to me is that it seems to extend so far beyond that even. I have Yahoo! as my home page and any time I see video game info on there I make sure to check it out. 9 times out of 10 the article is completly bashing Sony or heavily promoting Microsoft. Being a PS3 owner I can honestly say that I am completely satisfied with the product. The only people I ever see complain about the PS3 are people who don't own it. Is everybody on Microsoft's payroll?

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Superman915
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:34:45 PM
Reply

is that ann coulter?

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Schmitty
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:53:33 PM

you cant credit ann coulter with an opinion because everything she says is just...wrong

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:11:35 AM

Ah, don't bring up Coltergheist!

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 6/15/2009 12:14:31 AM

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Kowhoho
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:35:30 PM
Reply

I'm a lover, not a hater. Personally, when I see angry replies like the ones you're talking about I just shave my head.
The most recent angry rant I've read was this:

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/07/i-write-letters.html


Last edited by Kowhoho on 6/14/2009 11:41:45 PM

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Jed
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:39:01 PM

you probly spend a lot on razors

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Kowhoho
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:44:14 PM

lol, jed.
I meant shake of course.

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Jed
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:00:05 AM

;)

wow, I just checked out that link, unbelievable. They all seem like angry people just looking for something to rant about.

one thing that is always amusing to me is when xbots start talking about the reliability of the ps2 and ps3.

Last edited by Jed on 6/15/2009 12:07:09 AM

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tes37
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 6:14:32 AM

That's a very funny typo. Lol Kowhoho!

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:44:35 AM

@jed : Your comment is considered flame bait at many forums that are trying to clean up the hate. You do no justice to yourself this site making comments like that.

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Kowhoho
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 3:13:11 PM

@Cueil
Read the article on that site and you'll know what he means. This lady is obviously a very angry person and I personally think that her own personal issues are influencing her hatred for Fat Princess (the greatest thing since sliced bread). And the finger is just tacky.

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Jed
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 3:18:42 PM

@Cueil

I do believe that more of the hostile crowd are pro xbox. The people posting on that link were bashing sony about anything they could think of. I was pointing out how they talk about the reliability of the ps2, a problem that was fixed. Then they go off and promote the 360, which STILL has horrible reliability problems that it had when it launched.

It is just more evidence that some people will bring up ridiculous arguments just to start a stink.

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TheUglyBassist
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:40:29 PM
Reply

You wanna see fanboys? Check out either MGS Rising board on gamefaqs. It's horrible. One side goes on about how the game will blow because it's multiplat now while the other side says something around the lines of 'that's one less game the ps3 can hold on to'. It's ridiculous, it really is.

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Scarecrow
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:41:22 PM
Reply

I'll say this, Nintendo fans were more fun or at least INTERESTING to be around compared to xbox fans

Heck even the Sega fans were more 'bout the games and less 'bout omg your console sucks I hate Sony.

It was more friendly competition more than anything.


With xbox fans it's as if they signed a contract to bash anything that's not 360-based.

The biggest reason why I see 360 fanboys bash the ps3 and its users is:

-The fact that the ps3 is the better console, hardware wise, software wise.

***coupled by the fact that they refuse to pay slightly more for it

They think that sending their console back every 4 months is more fun.



I'm ok if someone can't buy the ps3, their loss. But when they attack it it's like, why?

Probably because they're not satisfied with their console? Yes, that's probably the answer

Now, there are also ps3 fanboys. But for the most part they're just telling the truth. The 360 is less powerful(ps2 fans accepted the xbox being more powerful), dies on you every 4 months, and has no exclusives outside of the usual Halos and a few other third party exclusives.

I seriously don't get why they feel the need to compare consoles though.

Personally I just prefer the ps3 but what ultimately drives me is the games. I can't wait 'till Uncharted(beautiful game), Gran Turismo 5('nuff said), GOWIII, etc.



PS: It doesn't get any worse than Gamestop, that place is the bowels of gaming, literally

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Jed
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:51:00 PM

I had a sega when I was a kid and my friend had a snes. I was always like, "wow I want to get one of those" and my friend was the same way about my sega. we didnt argue about which was better, we just dreamed of having both.

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Jiggy
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:03:36 AM

Correction...Its more like replace your console every 2 to 3 months or, in my case, every freakin' month... After they sent me 2 bad ones in a row...guess what happened to the next working one I got? Heheh. Someone got screwed at gamestop lol

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Qwarktast1c
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:11:35 AM

fanboys will pass up fun games just cause they hate the other system


i only pass up games on other systems because i wont spend money on another system for one or two games

if i want to play a 360 game, i'll just play it on my brothers

wii, well idk, but man i do wanna play mario galaxy 2!! reminds me of mario 64 :)


also it's funny how Xbox fanboys in the last generation gloated about how their system had more power and better graphics, which it did most of the time, but now are very defensive about their, in truth, less powerful console

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Qwarktast1c
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:13:19 AM

whoops, i didnt notice that i had replied to this comment... i meant to make it my own

sorry if anybody reads and wonders about that

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:17:28 AM

Same as arguments between insecure men, if you know what I mean...

360 fans realise they're console is going the way of the dodo earlier than once thought, so now they resort to any verbal abuse they can muster to defend it

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sticklife
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:48:56 PM
Reply

I think it may come down to people not wanting to be wrong. When you're wrong you look less smart. so when people buy something whether it be a new game or system or anything really, people want to believe they did not make a bad decision. You don't often hear someone bash something they own. (oh yeah I am a bit of a sony fan boy but I'm not stupid(maybe with spelling and grammar))

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LimitedVertigo
Sunday, June 14, 2009 @ 11:58:43 PM
Reply

I wasn't aware this was an issue no longer solved by simply ignoring comments one doesn't find relevant.

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Jed
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:03:36 AM

It is a problem when people visit a website to research a product and see all the hostility. It makes all gamers and anyone else that posts on the site look like a nine-year old with a serious complex.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:07:56 AM

So what you're saying is people are too stupid to simply understand there will be negative comments regardless of where they go and will instantly surmise that a site is worthless based on a few ignorant comments? I seem to have a little more hope in the average person.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:25:51 AM

We're saying it makes the site a piece of sh*t by default, forums used to be more civil, could you just ignore a bunch of hate graffiti on the side of the stores you visit, your workplace, your house?

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 6/15/2009 12:27:58 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:29:45 AM

@WorldEndsWithMe

Hate graffiti on the side of my house would be a little more evident, obvious, and personal than what Ben is alleging. I'm not saying there aren't mean spirited remarks but it's nowhere near as bad as some of you seem to make it out to be. These so called "fanboy" rants have not impeded my use of the internet whatsoever.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:09:48 AM

They impede my enjoying sites that I used to enjoy, that's for damn sure.

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Zemus101
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:40:19 PM

Yeah, I don't even read comments on other sites anymore. Way too much hate going around, I'm pretty sick of it. It might not bother some people, but obviously it bothers others (Hence why Ben wrote the article for one) I'll just stick to this site and occasionally the PS Blog.

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Doosharm
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:02:24 AM
Reply

While I completely understand why you would be focusing on the gaming community online, this problem most certainly is not limited to the gaming community. I happen to frequent many fish keeping forums (I work at a pet shop and love aquariums) and it happens there as well. People arguing about fish! Seriously!

I think that any time you get a group of people together and don't specifically demand and enforce respectable behavior, you're bound to get a bunch of jerks. The internet is so impersonal that people refuse to give anyone else respect on the basis that they don't recognize the author of a given post as an actual person, but instead just a screen name.

While your opinion about getting everyone in the same room is valid, I feel that the outcome could be fairly different. I think that if you get people in the same room to discuss video games that you will typically get fairly civil behavior because we have all been taught to be civil and respectful when talking to people and, when talking face to face, we know that we will be held responsible for our words and actions. Even if the conversation wasn't completely civil it would hardly be as fierce as the online equivalent.

But, there are also places where the community "gets it" and everyone applies the rules of etiquette that we have all been taught in "real life". This is most certainly one of those places. A haven for reasonable and respectful people. The best part is that when people come in and try to disrupt the peace, they are politley asked to move on, thus preserving the great community in place.

I honestly see this problem going away in the future because I think that online etiquette will become more of a focus of society. Whereas more and more of our interactions are occuring in an online setting I can forsee this being a subject tackled by schools or at least parents. Furthermore, I see online identities become less anonymous as time goes on and therefore people behaving more as they would in the real world.

Of course I could be completely wrong about most of what I said, but I know I'm right sbout this site. And as long as there are places like this, I know there is a place for me in the online community as well.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:06:28 AM

My roommate/best friend did his thesis on communication pertaining to online communities. It's quite evident that the problems Ben seems to have are prevalent across the internet. Obviously a little more evident in areas frequented by less educated people or children.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:09:26 AM
Reply

I must agree with many of these statements.

The fanboy wars started back with the Sega vs. Nintendo war of the early 90's, which as you wrote in a comment Ben, "Sega Does What the Nintendon't" fierce campaign.

The main reason it's bad now is because of the blog and comment and forum websites that give users free reign to say anything they want.

Now, seeing as I appreciate all video game formats, but have a particular love of Playstation, I have noticed a more level playing field between all formats, Wii dominates in sales due to aiming at casual and family gamers, while 360 and PS3 duke it out for hardcore supremacy.

These flamewars are worse than ever because Microsoft has finally caught up and surpassed Sony from a sales perspective. They have a larger library of games (if not all A grade titles) and have a very nice online service.

Now that new and old fans of Microsoft are beginning to feel Sony's dominating presence again after an abysmal start to the console's life, 360 developers and fans are pulling out every argument, rant and hateful post they can to defend its recently discovered inferior console, and coming from MS this doesn't surprise me.

I just hope that this behaviour isn't displayed from Sony's developers, friends and fans. Yet teenagers will always guarentee that it will happen.

I love this website, I think Ben and co. are brilliant, well-informed and hard-working writers who attempt (not always, but obviously try hard) to look at this industry from an unbiased and mutual point of view, and I respect that.

Not only that, but the people who post comments on this site (more than half of you) own 360's or Wii's as well and are willing to defend good points about it. I highly respect that. However, there are a few PS3 fanboys here as well, but they are respectable enough in their comments to be worthy of say.

Ben, keep up the good work. This is one site I trust more than anything now, mostly cos it's preference towards PS3 in an unbias view. I used to use IGN and G4's X-Play as my source of gaming news and reviews. Now PSXextreme and metacritic are my sites of choice due to the lack of fanboyism that runs rampant everywhere else.

One more thing. A lot of what I said can be referenced to Xbots and Greenburg, along with the Microsoft E3 conference, because the only thing they are good at is talking up their products without delivering. That and lying to everybody, gamers and non-gamers alike, by claiming ownership of titles such as Modern Warfare 2, Beatles Rock Band and Tony Hawk Ride (their presentations were borderline exclusive title announcements)

While MS did have Halo ODST (which not being a Halo fan did not appeal to me), Splinter Cell Conviction, Alan Wake, Forza 3 (which is a joke to me from the moment they opened their mouth at E3, which everyone here agrees with) and Project Natal (which is ways off from working properly), Playstation brand brought successful sales numbers (if not the highest in competition) 3 times as many exclusives and several new pieces of hardware that actually worked in real time (with no need for trailers to show off motion controls, everything that was shown was done in real time on stage and worked much better than Natal)

So, with that final rant, I think I have clearly pointed out why the flamewars are now worse than ever. Microsoft was once on top, had collected a lot of fans, but are now scared of Sony and its fans being right and overtaking the competition.

The only argument 360 fans have left is the price tag. The number of times a fan has said theres no games on PS3 is unbelievable!! Has anyone else here encountered such arguments on other sites recently?

For anyone who agrees or disagrees with me or any of my points, please leave a comment.

One last thing, SONY!!! Increase your marketing!!! Look at what happened when you marketed infamous in cinemas and on TV!!! Sales are through the roof!!!
Also, please increase advertising of PS3 console's features. Take a view of value for money and show that!!! The PS3 is not an expensive 360, please get this message out to the people!!!!!

And PSXextreme users!!! Please get this comment to Sony somehow!!! It is the only way to get PS3 sales higher and shutup the xbots fans for good!!! PS3 is expensive compared to 360 and Wii, but it is value for money!!!

The End

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:35:12 AM

I don't think any of us can get your thoughts to Sony but I think with the better advertising seen in KZ2 and inFamous they are already getting the picture on the software side. Who knows if they will ever market the machine properly...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:03:39 AM

Great post. We'll keep doing what we're doing, and we'll hope more people see it your way. ;)

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sticklife
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:21:37 AM

I think i'll wait for the paper back version... =/

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:22:13 AM

Just want to add, I was quite aware of the Sony lovers defending the PS3 to death in the same way 360 owner are now just a few months into the PS3's life. However, that was at a time when even I was considering 360 over PS3 because of mass effect and gears of war.

Now the tables have turned, and the flaming comments are coming form the other party. It's always the ones who feel most threatened.

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Qwarktast1c
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:14:40 AM

damn.... that's a long post, lol

great points too btw

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:19:30 AM
Reply

Vertigo, don't you DARE derail another thread just because you're upset about before. You get ONE more reply and if you start trying to sway every single person here to your line of thinking again, you're gone.

I visit more than a few forums around the 'Net, and most of them are not related to gaming. Gaming is the worst of the bunch by a long shot; such forums have ten times the hatred and hostility of car enthusiast, movie enthusiast, book enthusiast, or ANY other entertainment-based message board. Do the research yourself if you don't believe me.

Do you honestly think I based this on nothing? Someone who has been online doing stuff since the infancy days of the Internet? REALLY? Here's a suggestion: disagree all you want, but do it in a single post from now on, rather than replying to EVERYONE who doesn't see it your way. Got it?

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:26:30 AM

I don't believe I've ever "derailed" any of your threads. I really don't understand your problem with me. I agree with you 99% of the time but when I don't you seem to zero in on me.

I never said you based your article on nothing. However you're not the almighty truth. Going on my own personal "doing stuff since the infancy days of the internet" and reading my best friends master thesis which had material on this exact discussion I tend to disagree with you.

I promise I won't reply to every single comment. I wish for once you would engage in a conversation with me instead of simply telling me off and limiting my voice.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/15/2009 12:30:25 AM

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MadPowerBomber
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:27:35 AM

I think MMA fans are worse than gaming fans, but then again, I only come here and to Kotaku and avoid reading comments for the most part.

Comic fans used to be worse than either by a long shot.

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King James
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:51:54 AM

lol! I read the 1st sentence in Ben's post and literally laughed out loud.

Just for the record: That inFamous thread got "hi-jacked" by that other guy. Forgot his name...?

Last edited by King James on 6/15/2009 12:57:35 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:57:46 AM

To be brutally honest, I don't care about your friend's thesis. I hold a Psychology degree, and there's no great mystery behind why communicating with humans in this fashion is dysfunctional in more ways than one. I really don't think there was any need for any such thesis to be written.

Furthermore, I have a problem when you treat the thread as if it's your own personal soapbox to reply to everyone who doesn't agree with you. Do you really think that Half-Life thread required like 20 posts from you, just because you didn't like what they were saying?

Speak your piece, than be done with it unless someone addresses you personally. Most people do this...not sure why you don't.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:02:58 AM

MadPower: You're still talking about a very similar (or in some cases, exactly the same) group of people. It's either age, immaturity, or both.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:04:17 AM

I never "attack" anyone. I simply engage in conversation with people. I was not aware of a maximum post level. I mean no harm in responding to people's posts, in fact I enjoy it when someone replies to something I've written. It clearly means someone took the time to read my thoughts and then felt the need to respond to them, regardless of if they agree or not. I'm not trying to sway anyone's thoughts, simply offer mine and counter theirs if appropriate.

No harm in not caring about my friends thesis, I simply offered that as a explanation for my opinion on this. I don't think you're a fool Ben. Christ I come to your site everyday and I've read hundreds of articles by you.

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MadPowerBomber
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:22:14 AM
Reply

It's the human condition, nothing more, nothing less. It has little to do with gaming at all. Go over to MMAJunkie.com and look at the comment threads there. It's very similar, if not worse. Any comic book site with comments allowed is quite similar -- though they're policed much more heavily nowdays. It's just how people are, especially with the comfort of being hidden behind a wonky screen name, a monitor and a keyboard.

One of the worst inventions of the world was message boards, forums, and reader interaction commentary. Very little positive comes of it, regardless of what they're intended for.

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karneli lll
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:35:42 AM
Reply

Its like those people who think they have more credibility because they own all consoles. Sony fanboys are the direct result of Xbox fan boys; one cannot exsist without the other. Personally i wish they were both gone,but as long as they are'nt here,(or are banned as soon as they show up) im happy to be here... Umm...What was the topic again?

Last edited by karneli lll on 6/15/2009 12:37:06 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:45:32 AM

There's a special place in hell for people who begin their post with "I own both consoles but..."

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:47:21 AM

Do I own both consoles if I simply have a PS3 and a PC?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:04:22 AM

nope, a PC is a PC. You can't get ALL 360 games on it.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:44:45 AM
Reply

Hmmm, been thinking. A lot of folks blame MS for a lot of the hate, and while it certainly didn't originate there I can see why people think so.

You have a company with a past record of moving into someone elses territory, buying up all their properties and ultimately squashing them like a bug, then promoting the hell out of a half assed product with a predetermined life cycle and intentional bugs to cause rebuys and fix-its and patches(see Vista). And this company basically brainwashes the world into thinking their platform is superior through conditioning. I mean Windows is probably the buggiest thing ever made but most of us use it anyway. So yeah, I can see how people who have been sucked into that particular black hole could cause a lot of ruckus and defend their defunct buy to the death. But maybe it's on us too because we respond to it when we shouldn't

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:51:12 AM

I see just as many ignorant comments coming from PS3 owners, wii owners, and PC gamers as I do xbox owners. I don't really believe the company behind the console is to blame for it's users actions on forums.

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King James
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:54:55 AM

@ World
Don't forget the antitrust law violations.

And am I the only one amused by those terrible "I'm a PC" ads? Apple pwns them everytime. LOL

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:57:57 AM

@ Kingy

I'm a PC user (of course) but I love the pro apple commercials. I have to admit they're funny and sometimes right on the mark. I agree the "I'm a PC" ads come off fake and long over due.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:00:44 AM

I think Microsoft is in a unique position:

First of all, they've managed to garner a lot of hate over Vista. Many people just lump this into their view of the company when they consider the Xbox or anything else, which causes a problem. Second, the Xbox and Xbox 360 have a terrible history of reliability, which is like a curse in the market that doesn't go away, primarily because the ripped-off consumers don't let it. Consumers are fickle, but the one thing you can't do to them is provide them with something that doesn't work for their money.

Thirdly and lastly, there's the old-fashioned belief that Microsoft are still the "interlopers," sticking their noses into a business where it doesn't belong. But the problem is that the exact same thing was said about Sony, so this doesn't really cut it. Even so, I believe Microsoft is well-deserving of some of the hate they receive, and it's only natural that MS supporters have to fight that much harder against the increased consumer dislike.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:08:03 AM

I'll be honest with ya vertigo, maybe we just visit different sites but I don't see "just as much" coming from the other sides of the coin. I DO see plenty and it's just as troubling but certainly not as much. The little buggers are prolific with that hate.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:13:34 AM

N4G is full of PS3 propaganda. I admit when I was younger I did the same stuff with friends. I would exaggerate the truth. I can still remember way back at the unveiling of the PS2 and the claims that the CGI of Ridge Racer shown could be done in real time on the PS2. Well I ran with that and tore into any friend of mine that still clung to their 64s.

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Fane1024
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:09:57 AM

@ world
MS's business practices certainly fuel the animosity toward them. Personally, I hate them, but that doesn't apply to consumers who buy their products (I feel sorry for them j/k). Even when they act like douche bags.

@ vertigo

MS certainly provoke the flame wars. Listen to the nonsense that comes out of Aaron Greenburg's mouth. Plus, some say MS actually pays people to troll; I don't know if that's true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

@ ben

It's not just that they're interlopers; it's that they will do anything to create a monopoly.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/15/2009 4:21:15 AM

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Highlander
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:49:20 AM

Regarding Microsoft and 'hating' them. I've been involved with professional IT since before Windows, actually since before the 386 processor if the truth be told, so I have watched the rise and rise and plateau of Microsoft. I've watched as the Microsoft tentacles have reached into every corner of IT, the Internet and now the Home. No less than 15 years ago, I looked at the way Mir osoft was doing business, their licensing practices and the terms on their End User License Agreements (EULAs) and came to the conclusion that they were bad for everyone except themselves. They duplicitous ways in which they dealt with IBM over DOS, and Windows and OS/2 were simply signs of the future. The way in which they target ans snuff out competitors, they way in which they see a competing standard ad immediately declare their own industry standard in competition, the way in which they will absorb real standards and then extend them with proprietary extensions co-opting the standard as their own. Oh, and many other business practices that only an organization as large and far reaching as Microsoft can manage. All of these things left no doubt about the danger of Microsoft in the world of professional IT.

Any animosity I personally harbor against Microsoft as a corporate entity comes from my professional experience, although I have no doubt about the danger that they pose to consumers and the world of consumer electronics. Microsoft is used to operating as if they were pretty much the only fish in the sea. Consumer electronics and entertainment doesn't work that way. Microsoft are bringing the business tactics that propelled them to a 90+% share in some of the business software/OS markets. The consumer electronics market and entertainment field will be permanently damaged by the kinds of tactics that MS has used elsewhere, and we see already being used in the video games market. This is my personal opinion, but look at the history. Microsoft has never been satisfied with a minority share in a market, and are not satisfied when a direct competitor remains active.

Vista and things like that are all part and parcel of Microsoft and their way of doing business. Many people, in particular in the US give MS a free pass because they are 'American'.

In truth though, Microsoft is not 'American', they are 'Microsoft' and that's the *only* allegiance the company has.

We should all remember that.

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Highlander
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 10:28:25 AM

@fane

Look up Astroturfing.


Last edited by Highlander on 6/15/2009 10:31:30 AM

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BikerSaint
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:59:14 AM
Reply

I remember rivalry's all the way back around the Tandy/Commodore days.

BUT..... the big difference was that it was a friendly bantering of rival systems, not the vile hatred being spewed these days by rabid fanboys of all sides.

Also, in the old days there was no place for any hatemonger to hide, so they either kept their f*cking mouths shut or walked around with a swollen closed black eye" and a few missing teeth for a while.

But these days, these newer so-called keyboard commandos do it because they know can hide in the comfort of their mother's bedroom, right under her skirt.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:01:55 AM

"BUT..... the big difference was that it was a friendly bantering of rival systems, not the vile hatred being spewed these days by rabid fanboys of all sides."

Exactly my point. People who are too young simply don't get this.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:11:51 AM

Actually, that is very VERY true.

I remember being a kid and having a Sega Mega Drive. Some others had Mega Drives (or genesis in U.S.) while others had SNES. We shared games whenever our parents allowed us and we loved Mario and Sonic in all their 16-bit glory. It was a dream to own both consoles.

These days, its war, one or the other, pick your side. Whatever happened to the good ol' days of friendly rivalry?

It went to the developers of God of War 3. They recently said they're looking forward to what Dante's Inferno has to offer as it will give them good competition for their next project. That and some of their old friends are working on Dante.

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SneakyBeaver
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:58:33 PM

LOL, and the same keyboard commandos are using the voice-changing features of their headsets to disguise their prepubescent voices so they can spew every cuss word they've ever learned during COD:WAW multiplayer games.

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BikerSaint
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:04:37 AM
Reply

@ Word,

<<<<<There's a special place in hell for people who begin their post with "I own both consoles but...">>>>

I own 12 console, but I've already been to hell(and back). Unfortunetly for me, hell was where I met my 1st wife as Satan kicked her ass out.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:10:36 AM

LOL, Biker you are very welcome anomaly with your massive collection. But I don't think there's any place in hell for someone who says "I own 12 consoles but..."

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:14:34 AM

She was a succubus?

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King James
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:56:11 AM

HA

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kevyd09
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:50:15 AM

lol my wife to be must be her sister!!

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:05:06 AM
Reply

LimitedVertigo,

Do you spend all your time on this website? I can see why Ben got a bit cross with you before. I keep seeing your Alien pic everywhere.

Everyone likes to have a say in things, and I can see why you respond to a lot of people's comments. But if you disagree with a lot of what people have to say on here, along with what Ben has to say (he is the editor after all), then maybe this isn't the site for you. Just have a think about that and tell me what you think.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:18:07 AM

There have been maybe 4 threads out of 900 I've read on here that I've differed in opinion with Ben. So I think you're greatly wrong in your impression of me. The only 2 that actually come to mind is the article related to Valve and this one.

As I've said before this is the main game site I go to so it's no surprise you will see my cute little alien pic every now and then. There are plenty of other "usuals" as well.

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/15/2009 1:18:29 AM

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:26:32 AM

Fair enough, good point. We feel differently about Valve among other things. Thats just who we are.

Just was wondering about what Ben said about you responding to EVERYTHING that you don't agree with. Thats what the thumbs are for. I guess some people get annoyed about that kinda thing.

By all means, respond to threads, just not all of them. I guess thats what Ben was trying to get at. And I don't mean to sound condescending or rude or negative in any way. So please don't see me as having a go at you cos I'm really not, just curious.

Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 6/15/2009 1:28:54 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:35:51 AM

Dance you don't come off that way at all. I love getting replies. This basically is the only game site I post on so I enjoy getting feedback from various opinions. I'm not sure if Ben was upset with the amount of times I posted on a few particular threads or the reasoning behind my posts. Me pissing off Ben was unintentional on my part. I was just stimulating conversation.

In regards to the thumbs up/down I think you know as well as I do that they are never used correctly. Ben gets tons of them while I've seen random people say they are new to the forum and offer a hello only to get several thumbs down. Plus a thumbs down never tells you why a person did it. I'd much rather have a person justify their reasoning with a text response than simply a click of a mouse button thus giving me a thumbs down.

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pillz81
Sunday, June 21, 2009 @ 3:55:53 PM

I just gave Limited Vertigo a thumb down for no reason.

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fatelementality
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:09:55 AM
Reply

Why do you think that I've been scouring the internet for almost 5 years looking for a site that I would feel comfortable posting on? Seriously, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I consider this place my home now. Lotsa love to all the regulars. Hopefully you guys respect and value my opinions as well. There's hardly a post that I don't read, even if I don't have anything to say myself. Other times, I just don't have enough time in my day to come here as much as I'd like. Maybe this is partially to blame for getting behind on all my games. Damn you Ben, why are your articles so interesting? Just out of curiosity, how long has this site been around? For that matter, how long have you been here?

Last edited by fatelementality on 6/15/2009 1:14:44 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:12:39 AM

Same experience, once I found this little hideaway I stopped being a regular anywhere else. Now if I go elsewhere its for fringe news and reviews, but never the community.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:13:50 AM

We certainly will. Welcome to your 2nd (or 3rd) home. Enjoy the articles and feel free to offer your opinion. (Just keep it civilized please)

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Fane1024
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:27:18 AM

What convinced me to return (and keep returning) was their ICO review. Anyone who loves that game can't be bad.

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Zemus101
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:59:35 PM

Yeah, not sure why but I read 99% of the posts and even when I don't comment, I at least read half of the comments that were posted. I guess that just shows how awesome this site is, and how knowledgeable some of the posters are.

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Banky A
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:22:20 AM
Reply

Mmmmm.

Yeah (personally) I see bucket loads of hostility in every gaming site/forum I go.

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fatelementality
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:29:01 AM
Reply

Man......after reading all the other posts, I didn't even know what I was talking about on mine. After going back and looking at the article, I was like "Oh yeah, I remember" :)
Funny that a piece about gamers arguing has a lotta hostility in the comments. Sorry Ben and Vertigo, I know your just defending your positions. Arguing sucks. It's not like people ever end an argument with "You know what, you're completely right and I'm an idiot"

Last edited by fatelementality on 6/15/2009 1:32:44 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:41:00 AM

@ fatelementality

No need to apologize. Ben and I are simply having a mature conversation on several things we disagree about. I don't really see any hostility in any of the previous comments on the thread. It's healthy to voice ones opinion even if it might conflict with others. Arguing doesn't suck as long as both sides offer logical examples to back up their reasoning and play nice. I myself have learned a great deal thanks to my openness to talk about anything even if my opinion differs from someone else.

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King James
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:58:21 AM

@fatelement

I end all my arguments that way. ;-)

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Fane1024
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:31:49 AM

I think people also don't accurately recognize the intended tone in some comments, causing them to overreact...sloppy internet writing.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:11:58 AM

I'd attribute it to sloppy reading more than sloppy internet writing.

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LegendaryWolfeh
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:37:35 AM
Reply

off topic but jeez, 76+ posts already at this late at night xD

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:41:16 AM

::grin::

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:16:27 AM

When does Ben sleep?

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:23:10 AM

When do any of us "usuals" sleep? What about you world?

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Naga
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:58:35 AM

It's night? Jeeez

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:04:45 AM

well im in the central time zone, its about 3 now and I tend to sleep around 4 but as I've been drinking cokes all night I might be up awhile.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:09:05 AM

I too am in the central time zone (Illinois). I generally go to bed around 3am but tonight isn't one of those nights. I'm definitely a night person, plus I only need 5hrs of sleep.

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Fane1024
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:34:01 AM

Also from Illinois (originally); also a night owl.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:18:33 AM

Aussie gamer from Sydney here. While most of you are alseep, I'm getting my comment going, rather late in the game most of the time. LOL

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HOODGE
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:41:20 AM
Reply

I agree on you're article, it's so true that the video game hate is almost near to starting a literal riot or war. And it's so true with many or your remarks that the real hostility lies in the Xbox courts.

I realize Ben that the mear mention of Fanboys wasn't in your article, but that is what I got from it and what came to my mind as well. Seems like everytime I'm on my Xbox playing on live, and if I ever mention the PS3 in a conversation, I right away get flamed on and a big argument envelops. Just hate the level of immaturity with 360 people.

It's like they are so sensitive whenever I mention an amazing PS3 exclusive on there or I say that the online gaming performance on PSN is smoother and better on Playstation. Wow the screaming just gets real loud. I get sworn at and called a fag and everything under the sun. But funny on the PS3 if I mention anything about 360, I hear far less sensitivity (not that PS3 people don't flame me ever. It does happen, but very rarely).

It's like the 360 people know that the PS3 is the superior hardware with the superior games, and that bothers them, and they don't want to come to grips that the PS3 is hot on the 360's heels now and soon may surpass it in the area of sales.

PS3 gamers don't feel threatened by 360 as they know what they got and they know the amazing future the PS3 has, so why sweat it when any mention of 360 comes into the conversation. That is just my experience when playing on both platforms. 360 caters to a lot of immature little punks that know everything and thats that!! No matter what you say in defence of Sony to them matters and it's best not to say anything at all, as the ugliness of the hostility is freakin crazy. I've never met such brats in my life. If I was the parent of them kids and I came in on my kid shooting his mouth off like that, his ass would be tanned and his 360 taken away. It is downright embarrasing having any sort of conversation with some of these Xbot fanboys.

Seems like they are not always the ones to blame either. Seems like all the real hate and hostility is from the MS heads themselves. They are the ones setting the bad examples and causing the PS3 hater to multiply. The way Microsoft downright lies and uses Sony's name directly outright and even the games and developers behind them is downright rude. Just like turn 10's Dan Greenwalt coming right out and flaming Kaznori Yamauichi's GT5 like that was upsetting for me. Love to meet face to face with him and give him my 2 cents worth about his joke of a race simulator. I'd throw so many curves into him and embarass the hell out of him, he wouldn't know what to say.

Anyways seems sad that that is the way it is, but in the end Microsoft make themselves look like the fools and always have a knack of speaking to soon and putting their foots into their big mouths.

Just can't wait for the day when PS3 surpasses Microsoft in sales of hardware and software and to hear those little Fanboys start crying. Will be a great day. I have no doubt it will come in due time. Seems like the 360 is really starting to show it's limitations now and PS3 is really just now getting the train rolling. That's why I feel Microsoft attacks Sony so much now as they do feel pressured now and it's totally out of desperation that they attack the competition.

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Banky A
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:57:47 AM

You nailed it dude ^_^

And no punctuation or grammar mistakes, lol.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:24:50 AM

Actually, one or two grammer and spelling mistakes in there, but for a long article like that (haha, mine was about as long as that if you scroll above), it was a very well written and professional-looking comment.

Well done.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:56:19 AM

This is the BS... you play the blame game and then expect people who actually go on forums outside of here to believe you? Fanboyism is a natural evolution that most of us have gone through at least one point of our lives... for me I was a total Sega Fanboy and then a PlayStation fanboy... and then a Sega fanboy again... and then I moved on to the Xbox which I felt was the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast. From there I grew out of my fanboy nature. I bought my PS2 for the RPGs and MGS and bought my Gamcube for Resident evil and Zelda. I've come into this generation with a much calmer view on the situation and while I still have a Microsoft preference if I had the money I'd get a PS3 in a heart beat... I unlike a fanboy will admit when a system that isn't my prefered system has games that I really want to play. I do my best to poke my head in when I see blatant lies being told about any system and maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I see more BS about the XBox 360 (that Natal Racism stuff for example) than I see for the PS3 or Wii. We should all know by now that 360 are not dieing at 30 percent rate they were during launch and that the Wii's controller is actually very useful for almost every core game. The PS3 does have games that are fun to play, but God of War as fun as it is isn't a huge series(it's sold about as much as the Forza series taking out the PSP version).

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Highlander
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:21:32 PM

You're right, the more recent 360s don't have the 30% failure rate of the systems before 'Falcon'. The newer ones 'only' have a failure rate of about 10%, which is still woefully high.

I wouldn't say that the Wii wand is usable for all genre of game, at all, but that's an opinion, just like you're not a fact.

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HOODGE
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:39:56 PM

Sorry Cueil. I say it like I've experienced it. No fanboyism on my part. Just what I've witnessed. Nothing more.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:18:37 AM
Reply

I had to stop looking at the Saints Row forum due to the massive ammounts of aggression that I found there at times (Especially when it came to DLC). Video Game forums are something I usually stay away from, glad its a bit more peaceful here.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:19:49 AM
Reply

I have a feeling it has a lot to do with Projection, Ben break out that psychology degree and give it a breakdown.

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fatelementality
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:58:30 AM
Reply

I think Ben is actually asleep now. It's 4am where I am and I have to be at work at 8. Prototype man......s'all I gotta say. I haven't put this many hours into a game in such a short amount of time since GTA3. Before that it was FF7. On that game, I actually played for about 30 hours my first sitting. Ahhh, those were the...............zzzzzzzzzzz.

Last edited by fatelementality on 6/15/2009 2:59:47 AM

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:10:55 AM

Since downloading FF7 off PSN close to 2 weeks ago I've put in 47 hours. In fact I'm going to go put in another hour before sleepy time. I could grind for days with that game.

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BikerSaint
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:31:15 AM
Reply

@LimitedVertigo,
No she wasn't.....

Just a flaming-red-haired, 100 percent pure grade-A bitch.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:15:28 AM

I'm pretty sure other than being a demon spawn bent on destroying the lives of men the 2 other criteria are red headed and 100% Grade-A Bitch.

I'm just saying....

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Naga
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:32:46 AM
Reply

LOL what's the use Xbox 360 fans get easily pissed off by Elpresador so its no surprise that the source of this hostility centers around Xbox.
But to be honest nothing will change till Xbox is gone soon to be replaced by a new SEGA console or worst Apple

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fluffer nutter
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:45:21 AM
Reply

I just come here for the grapes. Ha ha.

As for the comments about fanboyism, hatred, animosity, etc... well, I can't really add more than what people have already stated. I don't necessarily think that it's just with the age of people (younger) but also with their ignorance, lack of knowledge, lack of education, etc. What I mean is, some people just haven't developed the skills to interpret information properly, unbiased and be able to form a rebuttal that isn't just an opinion piece that's heavily influenced by emotions. This is probably coming across the wrong way but here's an example. I'm sure you all can relate to this.

A. You have someone present you with information for their side of the arguement, you start to reply and they fix their attention to either the first half of your statement or some key words that they deem are negative. Then, they reply and you're thinking, "WTF is wrong with this person and why didn't they listen to me when I gave them a very clear and concise reply?" This is EXTREMELY frustrating. Makes me want to fling poo like a monkey.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:45:34 AM
Reply

I didn't agree with Vertigo on the whole Valve thing, but damn Ben! I don't think he's trolling either. He puts thought into his replies, and I can usually see where he's coming from.

He just really doesn't come off like a troll. I think he's one of the few that actually gives you good reasons when he doesn't agree with you.

What you gotta take into consideration is that sometimes you might be 99% sure you're right about something, but could be wrong. I think a lot of us have been online for years upon years and have frequented many types of sites and boards. I don't think that gives you any more credibility.

I dunno, I just thought you were being too harsh. I better shut up though, I don't wanna get yelled at!

P.S.

Vertigo! Go outside dude! Playing that many hours of FF7 cannot be healthy!

Last edited by n/a on 6/15/2009 3:47:35 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 10:21:15 AM

None of what you said has any real relevance.

I never called anyone a troll, nor did I attack anyone. Further, it's lone since done so it doesn't need to be addressed.

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Banky A
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:59:23 AM
Reply

Now there's hate and arguments surrounding racing games where there used to be just one King of console racing:

Gran Turismo

:(((((( saaadd

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SkantDragon
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 5:34:23 AM
Reply

I believe the hatred is manufactured by the various companies involved. Ben, you've mentioned in previous posts Microsoft's tendencies to bash at its competitors rather than promoting it own products.

This behavior is not pointless. Most people are sheep. They get on board with the company line and go with it. Microsoft's efforts are meant to summon mobs in order to make it unpopular for anyone to favor their rivals.

And look how successful it has been. For much of the populace, the choice of PS3 versus 360 is not about which is the better machine or which has better games.

Owning a PS3 is simply not cool. Being into the PS3 actually carries a social stigma. And that situation was _NOT_ created by Sony. Microsoft built that cage.

This isn't to say that Microsoft is the only company that does this. Every company has done it at least a little. Microsoft is just one of the worst.

But where ever you see fanboys violently attacking each other, you'll usually companies locked in vicious below-the-belt combat... the fanboys attitudes simply reflect that.

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TGG
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 6:37:26 AM
Reply

All fans are like that. There isn't anything special about Game fans. Have you ever been to say.....an anime forum? I remember flame wars starting over whether or not the anime "Aa Megami-Sama!" should be translated as "Ah! My Goddess!" or "Oh My Goddess!". On the other hand, anime fans don't usually talk about the studios who make their fav anime or argue who's better.

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Deleted User
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 7:04:09 AM
Reply

It's hard to enjoy visits to websites like GameSpot and 1up, where MS bias is everywhere and hostility rages. Even I get into it. I'm just happy that this site exists where intelligent conversation can be found.

Honestly, I don't have an issue with the 360, most of us think the console has something to offer. However, the 360 fanboy doesn't think so regarding the PS3 and needs to bash the competition. Of course, those people are in denial.

If you haven't already, Google Brian Ghattas, click on the first link, and read the second blog entry. You will wonder why even with all those facts these people think they should be proud to own that machine.

Last edited by n/a on 6/15/2009 7:05:07 AM

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:36:00 AM

Actually, those people who bash the other console are more close-minded, un-educated and ignorant of other people's thoughts and opinions, not really in denial.

They believe and will argue their belief to any who will listen, no matter how wrong they are, and resort to name-calling, console bashing, etc just because they can't develop a cohesive argument back.

These people also refuse to have a calm and mature argument because they know they will lose this argument due to their lack of knowledge in the department, so they use swearing, name-calling and competition-bashing in order to win, or avoid being defeated in argument.

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Jed
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 7:04:56 AM
Reply

damn, this article is smokin' hot. It's only been seven hours and we are over 110 posts.

It really is a hot subject though. I have been driven away from so many different websites by the horrible sophomoric behavior.

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gungrave
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 7:19:03 AM
Reply

Ben is right about all these gaming sites. I enjoy coming to this site because it's all Sony related and it has a great online community. After reading Ben's article I always scroll down to see what the 'regulars' have to say.

Last edited by gungrave on 6/15/2009 7:19:46 AM

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Jed
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 3:27:11 PM

Not just that it's sony related, but full of intelligent, informative people. Not just the admins, but most of the community.

I would love it if more sites were like this one, no matter what they are for.

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CH1N00K
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:58:20 AM
Reply

Wow I have to stop sleeping at night, I missed all the fun!Holy Comments section Batman!

As much as I'm tired of hearing about fanboyism...it's still a hot topic. The problem I see with it is that I don't think it will ever really go away. It's going to keep evolving as we go and it could get ugly.

Slamming your rival has been around for years. Did anyone else grow up in a family where you would laugh at the thought of owning a Toyota over a Chevy or Dodge? Who's laughing now?

Or how about hockey team rivalry's? You can't tell me that those never got heated. Back in the day of the original six, there used to be some good ones.

And I do remember some Sega, Nintendo rivalries as a kid, but the only difference was that you actually had to talk to someone about it. If you we're pulling crap out of your @ss, the person you were talking to could call you on it. But that was back in the days before the internet really caught on.

Now any walk of life can get on the net and spew anything they want from personal belief to facts. Someone else can retort those comments by either making crap up or researching it to give a proper answer. No matter what you say, no one ever sees your face, if they call you on it, you have time to research, ponder and come up with what will seem a quick witted answer.

With such a large amount of people commenting, it's also getting hard to filter out the fact's from the opinions, so you also have people who think they are educated on a subject, regurgitating useless information over and over.

Another factor, which is kind of sad, is the fact that the gaming community is still very male oriented...which means lots of testosterone floating around. What we have in the gaming community is the equivalent of what you'd see if Detroit and Pittsburgh had changed in the same dressing room after the Stanley cup final. (or two UEFA teams had met in the same pub after a final match) Some people would be cool with it, but eventually someone's going to get hurt.

Basically gaming forums have kind of become a modern day version of Lord of the Flies. The forums are our own little abandoned island with no one to dictate the rules...and the children are just let loose to do as they please, sometimes with disastrous results.

Eventually we may grow up and figure it out, as there are a few sites that do seem to be figuring it out. I know PSX puts in a lot of time trying to keep out the riff raff that bring the site down. But in doing so, we all become like minded, and if someone comes in with a opinion that varies, they usually get jumped on for it.

As for immaturity disappearing completely from the internet? I'm not holding my breath. There are still too many people who see the internet as a way to say something whether they need to or not. Since I'm leaving a comment on here I may be one of them. We all might be. How many of you have left a comment on here and then run back to you computer every now and then just to see if someone has left a reply to what you've said? I know I'm guilty of it a time or two.

Whether the response is good or bad, it gives you a small glimmer of pride that someone is listening to what you're saying. Congratualations! You are contributing to society! Now go spread your wisdom to the masses!

The old saying that it is better to be quiet and to be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and prove it, doesn't seem to apply when referring to posting on the internet. Mainly because it's a mostly faceless society where you don't have to worry about someone knocking on your door and kicking you @ss for spouting you opinion, no matter how right or wrong you are.

In order for this to go away, someone needs to start selling computers with a hammer attached. Every time the user puts something stupid or useless up on the internet, the hammer will swing out and hit you in the groin. At least that will make people stop and think about what they are saying before they post it. Other than that? Yeah as long as there is media, marketing and mindless masses, There will be flaming.


Last edited by CH1N00K on 6/15/2009 9:03:25 AM

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:20:55 AM

Actually, you are dead right about the whole jumping on the person with the different opinion. Look at LimitedVertigo when he showed his love of Valve in an article comment section that was about hate towards Valve.

But the thing is that everyone had a good argument and didn't resort to yelling and bashing the competition, cept for a few bad eggs who just stated they plainly and simply hate Valve with no comment as to why.

Good point, good comment. But keep in mind that people like me joined this site cos they agree with the writers, editors and users who comment about a lot of the stuff posted here. I know its why i joined

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Jordahn
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:14:14 AM
Reply

Sorry I'm late to the party...

Let me first say that the PS3 is my primary gaming console because SONY has done such a great job with the hardware and their software offerings. Here are the only gaming sites I visit on a normal basis...

www.us.playstation.com
www.psxextreme.com
blog.us.playstation.com
www.gamerankings.com
www.gamefaqs.com
www.nintendo.com

There are other sites I also visit, but only from a "surfacy" way to avoid seeing all the blatant hateful fanboyism on those sites.

The hatred is harmful to the gaming image, and I've voiced that to several of the sites I used to go to. I would call these individuals "anti-gamers" because they are only hurting and not promoting the progression of gaming. Of course they are blinded by their anger instead of being joyous of the awesomeness of the gaming industry. Their loss. I'll continue to game and let people know about it because it's in my blood, and it's a perfectly legit form of entertainment.

A co-worker of mine has recently gone through two Xbox 360's and several hardware failures. During the latter end of his problems, I was trying to help him find ways to inexpensively fix his 360 or to inexpensively replace his 360 with another one since he had already purchased another 3 controllers and some +25 game. Money is finite, and I didn't think it was in his best financial interest to buy a PS3. So I tried putting his "need" first. But to make a long story, he was fed up of the hardware problems, gave up everything Xbox 360, and now he a proud owner of a 160GB PS3 bundled with Uncharted.

Moral of the story, you put the gamer first and not the biasness of your own preferences. This doesn't mean that everyone will start buying PS3's. But how many of you associate the Xbox 360 with the idiotic cocky fanboys? (Sees lots of hands going up.) Well, there are also PS3 fanboys that are just as bad, and I don't see my co-worker buying a PS3 if I acted as such in front of him. I think you guys see what I'm getting at.

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www
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:20:52 AM
Reply

Well well well....

I don't know what to say but i think the fanboys aren't going to go away. Somebody might argue that this what makes the video games industry what it is. I don't support stupid fanboyism but hmph......i think it's here to stay, so long as there's INTERNET.

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Dancemachine55
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:33:39 AM
Reply

One more thing from me.

Keep in mind what this article is about. Not the existance of fanboys, but the immaturity of them and their horrific arguments and verbal bashing towards the competition.

We all know that competition has been around since Cavemen times. Fanboys have been around since sport and other multiple teamed entities have come along.

The point is that this fanboyism and bashing of the compeition has got out of hand, and a lot of that is being blamed on immature 360 users aged around 11 to 18. Competition was professional and at times friendly a while ago. Arguments were face to face and based on the qualities of all systems and games.

Now, arguments are more about putting down the competition in an attempt to look better and this is now achieved by faceless users online who can hide behind names and screens.

I would honestly have to agree that this is mostly flamed by the immature and unprofessional behaviour of Microsoft. Sony and Nintendo have a very healthy relationship in terms of competition. They never bash the competition but try to show off better features of their own wares to get the consumers attention.

Sega did some bashing for its time, particularly with the "Sega does what Nintendon't" campaign. I really do think that a lot of those immature Sega fans crossed to Xbox when the PS2 killed the Dreamcast. Even Ben stated that this may be so.

In the end, it comes down to the age and maturity of the user. And the research of the consumer. If the consumer likes 13 year olds squeaking obscenities against the competition while playing online, then they know which console to purchase.

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CH1N00K
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 10:30:47 AM

Maturity for sure..age..not so much. I've had some great conversations with my 14 year cousin who is all about the Xbox, while I'm all about the PS3..and yet I've also had some not so great conversations with 30+ year olds online. Look at some of the gaming journalists, they should be more mature and yet...here we are.

I think some of the older gamers are a major part of the problem. They've become stuck in their ways. Old gamers don't consider motion sensing "gaming". Yet new gamers with open minds love it. If you think about it, the ones who are the first to balk at something that is outside of the norm with video games, are the "old school, hardcore, gamers" Why? because they are of the mindset that the way they game now is the only way. Heaven forbid someone do something different.

I'm just as guilty as most for slamming the Nintendo as being just a fad and a gimmick. I thought that no self respecting gamer would be caught dead with a Wii mote in hand. But now that I've actually played it..I still wouldn't buy one, but it does have a certain entertainment value. And now with MS and Sony investing in developing their own motion sensors, even the "hardcore" gamers are changing their tune a bit. Gimmick or not...it's still gaming, it's just a different sort. Yet it still gets hate for doing what Nintendo has always done, which is bring gaming to more people.

"Before we change the world, we must first change ourselves"



Last edited by CH1N00K on 6/15/2009 10:35:10 AM

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Highlander
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 10:23:43 AM
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Ah, I'm glad someone else noticed. This wave of negativity, stupidity, fanboyism, whatever you call it...I call it the 'Eye of Moron' phenomenon.

In the Lord of The Rings, there exists a thing called the 'Eye of Sauron'. I always felt that the Eye of Sauron was the disembodied will, thoughts and evil that comprised the character of Sauron.

In the world of the Internet, the negativity, hate, stupidity, willful stupidity, anger and abuse that pervades the Internet today has grown. I have seen it grow and become almost a personality, as someone pointed out above, you can almost predict some of the responses that you get from this great mass of people on the Internet who display the hatred, anger, stupidity and hostility we're referring to. I think a lot of it has to do with the misconception that many people have that a) it's just the internet, b) no one takes what's said on the Internet seriously, c) it's anonymous and d) there is no comeback or consequence. If you combine these factors with a lack of intellectual and emotional maturity (basically people behave as if they were still pre-teens), you tend to get where we are today.

The Eye of Moron is like a figurative eye that brings together all the stupidity, hatred, hostility, anger and negativity of these people who think that the anonymity of the Internet allows them to say anything they want, no matter how offensive. I've seen the Eye of Moron almost acting as if it were a real personality or entity. It's really quite an amazing and dangerous thing.

I used to frequent the forum of Criterion Software, it was a very vibrant forum that was pretty much dedicated to Burnout Paradise. Initially the vast majority of posters there were fans of the game and so the forum worked really well, the developers participated and there was a great community feel. Gradually though, as the game became more popular more and more casual fans started to appear. As criterion delivered updates and additional content, the mood of casual fans became very negative. In fact on particular update turned the mood of the forum completely because the sheer negativity, hostility and stupidiity turned off the regular posters who'd kept the place alive for months. For a while we tried to keep the place going and counter all the negativity.

This is when I came up with the whole Eye of Moron concept. I actually saw the collective negativity, hostility and stupidity escalate in direct response to attempts to restore order to the forum, it was as if attempts at keeping order and restoring peace were being opposed by a real person. It wasn't a single person, or a campaign by a group. Believe me I've seen Usenet flame wars where a specific group deliberately acted to flood, and disrupt another Usenet group, literally to the point of destruction. What I saw at criterion was not that organized, but it was just as effective.

The Eye of Moron, all that negativity, hostility and stupidity ultimately destroyed the forum. Criterion shut it down because it was simply too much of a head ache for them to deal with. I don't blame them at all.

You could say that this kind of thing has been true since the days of Usenet, however it's not the same. In the glory days of Usenet, specific groups of people would target other groups, and disrupt them. I have no doubt that this still happens. However today there is a far bigger problem, in that this Eye of Moron is not directed, it's not a small group, it's the collected stupidity of immature jerks with Internet connections, and there are a hell of a lot of those on the Internet.

I'm not sure what the answer is, IQ tests before you're allowed online? Maturity tests? Age limits? Better education and instruction in schools and homes? Ultimately, I think the most effective 'cure' would be to pierce the veil of anonymity that so many people believe protects them from the consequences of their actions.

You see I think that this goes beyond the Internet. There are an unfortunately huge number of people in our society who believe that they have rights and no responsibilities. These are the same people that made Home such an unpleasant experience before Sony started to crack down, they are the same people to always use freedom of speech as if it were a magical get out of consequences free card. Until people realize that rights come with responsibilities, nothing will change. Freedom of speech for example says you're free to say whatever you want. However, Freedom of Speech does not free you from being responsible for your words. In the real world, people generally keep their sexist, racist, gender-ist, insulting, prejudiced crap to themselves because they fear the consequences. Whether the consequences are getting the crap kicked out of them, or being arrested for hate speech and charged with a public order offense, or some other equally unpleasant outcome, in real life, people are more careful. Online, there is no fear of consequence, no responsibility for the words used.

We see the consequence all around.

Sorry for such a long post, but this topic is dear to my heart, as I am very tired of dealing with the Eye of Moron. Whenever I find a place (like this one) that seems relatively free of the eye of moron, I stick around. Hopefully this will be one of the places where the Eye of Moron is permanently unwelcome.

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Arvis
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:26:13 PM

This post is "full of win," as the kids say these days.

I admire the pensive creativity in your posts Highlander. I'd like to write posts like that as well, but, as you and I both know, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!

-Arvis

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Dooby_Scooby
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 @ 9:04:08 PM

Out of curiosity, did the people start complaining when the new patch for the ps3 came out to allow you to restart races ? I didnt even know there was a forum, but I have to say they fudged the game after the latest patches.

I loved the game before the patch, still love it, but I wish they gave options to me about whether or not I want the speeds toned down or if I want the signboards etc changed.. I would rather have had the game as it was with the ability to restart races ( I even bought the hansen car set crap as well) rather than having a new design forced on me and speeds toned down.. I still love the game though..

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jaybiv
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 11:06:40 AM
Reply

Internet anonymity is the major culprit. Many of these Internet Thugs are really timid cats that only find the courage to talk tough when they know no one can put their hands on them.

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Highlander
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 11:13:36 AM

That's what is great about Home, someone CAN touch them.

Anonymity on the Internet is something of an illusion. I dare say that even this comments section may log the IP address and or MAC address for every person commenting, and in the majority of cases that's sufficient to tie back to the ISP, and often the specific user so long as you have the specific time you're interested in, to go along with the IP/MAC address. Of course the more nefarious will actively seek to hide by altering their MAC address (see MAC cloning) and bouncing through a proxy to mask their IP address. However these are not the most convenient techniques, and the absolute majority of people don't do these things, so the information logged in most cases should be good enough.

Anonymity on the Internet is an illusion.



Last edited by Highlander on 6/15/2009 11:14:16 AM

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Arvis
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 11:28:27 AM
Reply

I know I'm late to the party, but, besides video game forums, the only other thing on the internet that i discuss regularly is tennis. And there's just as much hostility and name-calling in some of the tennis forums as there are on any gaming forum. Particularly, men's tennis is very polarizing, what with the big Federer vs. Nadal vs. Djokovic vs. Murray arguments that rage on and on.

Really, people can hurl really mean, personal insults over the slightest things.

-Arvis

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Orvisman
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 11:37:38 AM
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They look at their feet and not at anyone in the room because the anonymity they enjoy on the Internet is no longer available and if they open their mouths they might get a quick bop to the nose.

Cowards!

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Robochic
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 11:39:44 AM
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Apprently I missed the Party as well, Guess sleeping is a bad idea LOL.

I see the hate for everything, but gaming is defently #1 for hate. I put my two cents in sometimes and if I'm wrong fine why would I fight that but some people always have to be write or 1 up you on everything. The world is just one ball of hate.

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Highlander
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 5:31:05 PM

Indeed.

Why can't people just say 'Sorry, I was wrong.' when they're wrong?

Think about it. When you're in a discussion and someone does that, how much more do you respect them for admitting being wrong?

Just four words, and it's a world of difference for everyone. It's not always easy, but IMHO it's always constructive.

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cell9899
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 11:41:31 AM
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damn this post amassed a high number of replies.

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Jawknee
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 11:54:32 AM
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lol funny. ive never seen this many comments on one thread on PSX before.

I was reading some study about how video games apparently make people more irritable and agressive then usual. Maybe it has some truth to it? i know im guilty of slamming the 360. More so after mine broke to many times. But i try not to say anything about the people owning it other then i think their wasting their money. i do find it troubling when people curse and use nasty pajoritives on threads againt one another. I think also, its harder to convey sarcasm or a joking manner in print. Maybe thats apart of it. People say somthing and some one takes a offense when they should. i know ive been misunderstood and have misunderstood what people meant to say in print.

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vicious54
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:05:26 PM
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Yeah these arguments are getting pretty out of hand. Especially arguements based on opinions like controller preference.

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fluffer nutter
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:40:21 PM
Reply

Off topic: Did anyone notice how many times the EA line of sports games on PS3 commercial was shown during Game 5 yesterday? I counted at least six. I was shocked as that was the first time I'd ever seen EA associated with PS3 on the networks.

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Jawknee
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 12:46:30 PM

i think alot of developers were just worried the PS3 wouldnt find its footing. it has now and its proving to be everything Sony promised it would be unlike MS. They promised the world and sold people a piece of junk. I hope more and more developers start to come around to the PS3. i think Sony's triumph in this industry is yet again underway. People i know who still loath the PS3 use the same damned talking points over and over "online sucks, it has no games, its too expensive blagh blagh" None of those arguments hold water anymore.

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Jordahn
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:03:55 PM

I noticed it during game 7 of the Stanley Cup.

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SneakyBeaver
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 1:34:04 PM
Reply

So many comments, so little time. If my sentiment has been shared already, my apologies. But here's my personal take:

Fanboy-ism, while childish, stems from a loyalty for a particular brand. When fans of Xbox, Wii, or PS3 see the company execs bash other systems, they want to take part. Video gamers are already a competitive bunch, which is probably why the hostility runs rampant.

What fanboys fail to see is that competition between rival systems (XBOX vs PS3) serves as a catalyst for innovation. Hardware and software developers are constantly trying to outdo each other, and in the process, enrich our gaming experiences by constantly raising the bar.

So PS3 NEEDS the XBOX 360. The XBOX 360 NEEDS PS3. The Wii needs... well, quality games. My point is, if there weren't several systems to choose from, the market would have become complacent a long time ago, and we'd still be playing ColecoVision.

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Jawknee
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:45:20 PM

I agree with you that competition is healthy and brings new inovations to the markets for consumers however MS is unethical about it. They slander people, pay off people and bribe people to favor them. Devs take their bribes and hurt themselves along with us and the industry over all. i dont think its a coincidence that of the three MS is the one involved in lawsuites for poor business practices. They distort the market by shoveling money into peoples pockets.

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SneakyBeaver
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:53:34 PM

I share your opinion that MS is far from ethical. I often wonder how much PS3 rumor is perpetuated by MS. Every "price drop" rumor has undoubtedly caused would-be PS3 buyers to hold out longer, causing hardware sales to remain stagnant. Purely speculation, but I would not be surprised to learn that MS deliberately leaked rumors regarding the competition.

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Highlander
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:23:45 PM

FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

Microsoft excels at seeding FUD. It's a core business practice of theirs and has been since the mid 80's.

The idea is to seed the market with fear, uncertainty and doubt about your competitors in an attempt to either drive customers to your own products instead of the competition, or make customers delay their purchase of the competition, thus harming the competition's sales and making your own sales look better.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/15/2009 3:25:38 PM

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Alienange
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:15:29 PM
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30 new posts while I was reading all the posts?? Now I have to go back and find out what I missed?? Dang it all ... WEWM pass some coke over here I'm going to need it.

Ben, fantastic article.

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BikerSaint
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:25:07 PM
Reply

Hey,
I loved my Colecovision, and much, much more than I did my Intellivision too!

(Disclaimer: the above comment was not a flame of the Intellivision in any way, LOL)

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PS3addict
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:29:56 PM
Reply

It is just funny to see this scenario everywhere.
I am 35 as of yesterday and have been gaming since I was 6.
To be honest I fell into the "Wii is for kids" group fpr a long time. I soft modded my son's Wii last weekend and started loading all of his games onto a USB drive so he can stop destroying the disks.. Well, you have to verify that the games load and play as you do this.. Well, I found I had fun with this game system, and the wife saw me doing it... So for my birthday, she went out and got me two gun adapters, and 4 gsmes...
Mad World
The House of the dead 2&3
The House of the Dead Overkill
Punch out

These games actually hooked me for several hours and I am going back to them tonight. My wife "Hates gaming", but she sure loves to kill zombies!!

So in essence, everyone needs to take a breath, load a game and give it a fair shot. I hated the controllers for the wii, now I am learning to like them.

So before the rants and raves, I have had and still have all of the past generation consoles all the way back to colleco vision and atati 800. I love gaming and I found that a console I hated was actually fun. Nopt too many guys would admit to spending thier 35th birthday playng on a wii, but I can proudly say I had fun!

Last edited by PS3addict on 6/15/2009 2:32:15 PM

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SneakyBeaver
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 2:55:24 PM

Happy belated birthday!

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fluffer nutter
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:16:32 PM

Mad World. The only reason why I have been going back to my Wii. That game is really fun.

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Arvis
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 3:23:43 PM

Not to poo-poo the point your making (because it's a great point), but why don't you let us know how much fun you're having with those games by the end of month?

I admit, the Wii has some pretty fun games, but they're superficial. The fun only lasts for a few days. Even the really REALLY good Wii games like Brawl and Mario Kart lose their single-player luster relatively quickly and are then relegated to "only when friends are over" status.

Anyways, perhaps I am wrong, but I can't help but feel like, a month from now, you won't be doing very much with your Wii.

-Arvis

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RadioHeader
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 4:55:00 PM
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You can expect game sites to return to a state of normality when M$ realise they can't monopolise the games industry, and drop out. In the meantime, evil begets evil :)

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rjmacready
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 5:12:07 PM
Reply

I agree with Dancemachine (about 100 comments ago :) ) in that I use PSXextreme and Metacritic for the majority of my gaming news and reviews.
Keep up the good work guys, and you'll keep us coming back.

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FanboyBasher
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 6:05:08 PM
Reply

So why is there hostility? It all starts with the top (Sony and Microsoft competing with one another). Remember when Ken Kutaragi called the Xbox 360 a Xbox 1.5? Remember when when Micrsoft announced they have more exclusives and hot Forza 3 will put a serious damper on anything Polyphony can dish out? That type of ignorance trickles down the the gamers, authors like this one and even store employees.

Sure it's ok to enjoy you system and promote but when you constantly do it at the expense of another console it just shows what's more important to you and them.

(waits for this to be deleted as well)

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 6/15/2009 8:50:11 PM

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bearbobby
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:08:16 PM

Your entire post can be considered a valid opinion, except for the first sentence which is just hostile. I'm guessing most people here will get to the end of that statement and will be less inclined to keep a level head concerning your reasons why "this site is trash."

This is a Playstation-centric site so, yes, most likely the PS3 is the preferred system of the regular readers. I for one am glad to have a site that encourages readers to comment on reviews, rumors, and gaming-related editorials. It's nice to share the excitement of the next big game, or insights into games we haven't played but others have. It's also nice to have relatively frequent input from the authors on different subjects within the comment system.

I'm sorry to hear you had a post deleted, not having read it I can't say whether it was warrented or not but from my observations here a deleted post or user usually stems from that user being an aggressive poster (i.e. posting the same basic idea or opinion as a reply multiple times in a thread,) hostile or offensive (i.e. bigoted remarks,) or straight-up flamebaiting, which unfortunately is sometimes responded to by the younger folks in the crowd who haven't learned that a troll dies without it being fed. If you don't fit that criteria then I'd be very interested to know what your post was about.

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LimitedVertigo
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 9:33:42 PM

You had a post deleted? That's never happened to me.................

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BikerSaint
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:20:00 PM
Reply

@FAnboyBasher,
Fanboboyism started WAY WAY before MS/SONY, but it was done in a more friendly bantering kind of way in the old days...

Fanboyism isn't anything new, but instead, it's now gotten to the point of the assh*les foaming at the mouth as their vile puke spills out.

But as I said before, MS it the MAIN INSTIGATOR & MANUFACTURER OF FANBOYISM.
MS has been doing everything in it's power to promote rabid fanboyism, and egging them on to do so, both by it's constant bashing of other company's & their products, or by paying their all their sheep to go on bashfest's for MS.

MS has been caught time & time again paying groups of people to go ito sites that MS thinks is a threat to its twisted self-worth, and reek havoc whereever MS wants. And like Highlander already said somewhere above, this is called "ASTROTURFING"!

What's Astroturfing, you ask?????

Astroturfing is the artificial creation of a grassroots buzz for a product, service or political viewpoint.

Commercially-motivated astroturfing is called "astroturf marketing." Astroturf marketing has a negative connotation, primarily because disreputable marketers have used deceptive tactics to build their buzz by taking advantage of the anonymity the Internet provides.

Astroturf marketers typically use blogs, message boards, podcasts, wikis, vlogs, chat rooms and social media Web sites like MySpace when building an artificial buzz.

Deceptive astroturf marketing techniques include impersonating someone in the targeted demographic, creating an entirely fictional character(called a meat puppet) that's meant to appear to others to be a real person.

Astroturf marketing is also sometimes called green marketing, & buzz marketing too.

And if any of you don't believe MS would stoop that low to Astroturf their precieved enemies, then go right here and check out all of the elledged complaints against MS for yourselves..

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS316US317&q=Microsoft%27s+astroturfing+

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, June 15, 2009 @ 8:50:53 PM
Reply

No flaming. FanboyBasher, if you ever actually read a single word that's written on this site, maybe you'd understand how ridiculous your insult was. Considering I've supported the 360 more than any other member of any other PS-oriented site on the 'Net, such words irritate me because it's clear the person who said it is unfamiliar with...well, everything.

Don't do it again, and don't bother to post until you can say something that might be accurate about PSXE.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 6/15/2009 8:52:37 PM

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somethingrandom
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 12:12:50 AM
Reply

You mean like hostility towards a game dev who doesn't support their chosen console?...

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556pineapple
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 1:07:40 AM
Reply

An Xbox fanboy actually tried to argue me in person about a year ago. "PS3 has no good games," "All Metal Gear Solids are the same thing so MGS4 won't be good," "Blu-ray will not win the format war," "Even if it does, they won't get the rights to use Mpeg-4, not ever." I don't know where he came up with these ideas, but he had been proven wrong on every single one of them in a few month's time. I don't know what psychology is going on in their heads (Ben, don't you have some sort of degree in this field?) but they just can't admit that they'll be wrong and don't even have good reasoning behind their arguments. I actually enjoy a good, thoughtful argument, but if they're just mindlessly rambling it just gets annoying.

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 2:14:44 AM
Reply

I believe the most rabid of fanboys are narcissists.

Narcissism is categorized as a personality disorder by the mental health profession. It is referred to as NPD or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Few are ever diagnosed because few go to therapy.

Narcissism is not high self-esteem, but a condition where the typical narcissist suffers from.....
Preoccupation with hiding real or perceived flaws
Overestimation of importance, achievements, talents and skills
Maladaptive attention seeking behavior
Inability to empathize with others
Excessive anger and shame in response to criticism often resulting in rage

The narcissist will often manipulate others, especially partners, to control them. Projection and blame are hallmarks of this manipulation. It is estimated that 85% of narcissists are males.

Someone with Narcissistic Personality disorder (NPD) has at least 5 of these symptoms....

has a grandiose sense of self-importance(e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents,
expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people(or institutions)
requires excessive admiration
has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

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Highlander
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 9:41:20 AM

By that definition, we (the US) appear to be a nation of narcissists.

::mock shock::

;-)

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Jed
Tuesday, June 16, 2009 @ 3:21:17 PM

You may be on to something there. Very informative post. Thanks.

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Dooby_Scooby
Wednesday, June 17, 2009 @ 10:26:53 PM
Reply

Hello,

I have come here very very late.

I wasnt actually going to comment properly, until I read Highlanders post. I am pretty much the same as Highlander, Ive been working with pc's since I was very young I mean 7-8 Yrs old (8086 hardware), im in my very early 30's :)

I have a degree in IT and was a Linux sys admin, long story but im taking a break from IT, ive had enough of it for the time being..

Anyway, Highlander mentioned astro turfing.. When I was at Uni, I was doing some work with minix and was in newsgroups dealing with Minix, I loved Linux and so was drawn into C.O.L.A, thats where I met FLATFISH, this whole astro turfing, its actually sickening you actually want to learn something, but instead are confronted by 1 a** hole that spends his whole time coming into forums and news groups and spreading dissent instead of allowing people to learn tries to create rifts.. This is where my hate for anything MS was born (I actually really liked Dos / Windows 3.x/9x when I was a kid)

Then people claimed this guy worked for MS, didnt fully believe it until I recently found out that the guy was a very well paid shill for MS, he came out and was talking about it, I think MS sacked him and he started talking about the crap he was doing for them..


This is why I blame most of this on MS, they excel in this sort of nonsense.. I did say this in another thread, but Ben pointed out that in the Sega days things were just as bad.. I'm sorry I wasn't really hanging out in games forums then, I would only skim read and find out the reviews for games from a few sources.. Too busy working / studying.. I've never held hate for a games console though.

When I was a kid I had a Sega master system, which I loved (duck hunt woohoo),but always wanted a nes., Anyone remember the amstrad cpc ? I had one of them -- Quite populer here in the uk -- Half an hour waiting for the tape to load ye ar kungfu, I loved that game there was a lot of side scrollers, the original golden axe.. I remember the playground battles between friends between sega megadrive (I think it was the genesis in the US) and the snes, reading games magazines etc, but all of it was ultimately friendly.. It didnt have hate, it had envy but not hate..

Now what I see is hate, I go into different forums and you just see hate. It isnt there and all of a sudden you see a common thing flowing all of a sudden a "few" individuals jump into a forum and start completely bashing the ps3 and its always the same crap. I do see "ps3 fanboys" I guess I could be classified as one of them. Even though I have a wii and I dont classify the controller as a gimmick, its actually a great idea, most US gamers are seriously obese its a brilliant idea :) .. I will always support Nintendo.
I dont dish out hate for the 360 though, I merely dont give a monkeys about it and I dont give a monkeys about it because of the following:

1. Made by MS
2. Its failure rate is too high

What ends up happening 95% of the time, is a few ps3 fans defending against a load of the 360 fans and the 360 fans, do nothing but spread out dated useless information, such as:

The ps3 has no ..., it doesnt do ..., psn sucks because of ...., bluray sucks because of ..., wifi is crap because..... , ..... on the ps3 sucks because of ....

Feel free to fill in the blanks, im sure every one here has already seen and is well aware of the routine.. ps3 fans have a bunch of name calling xbot/rrodshit60/shitbox360/rrodfixme etc etc, which revolves its well known hardware issues, thats about it.. The rest is about the fact that the ps3 is superior than the 360 because of ... etc etc..

All I have to say is this, the more MS burrows itself in the console business the more this sort of hate will continue, the worse the whole industry will become.. They will happily pay publishers to grade games badly, they will happily use any tactic to destroy the competition and once they succeed it will only get worse. Even while they are meant to be competing you have seen the reliability of the 360, can you imagine what it would be like with no Sony in the picture ?

I was very sad when I heard MS was entering the Console business. Competition is good, but competition with a convicted monopolist is bad.. I think that it can only spell disaster in the long term, let me know what you think will happen by the next gen..

Also one last thing to add, how many 360 owners do you know that have bought more than one 360 ? If only half of the 360 Owners have ended up buying more than one 360 because of hardware faults, doesnt that make up the main difference between the console numbers ? I really wouldn't put this as being below MS' belt, they will do anything to succeed, even if it means releasing a console with a purposefully faulty design which will mean more people buying more than 1 console.. How many were coming into forums and advising other 360 owners to just go out and buy another arcade, its cheap enough after all right ?
At the same time you are helping to increase 360 sales figures.. Oh yes and if you are spending money buying another 360 and at the same time constantly hearing about rumoured ps3 sales cuts, you are less likely to look at the competition, its a very smart marketing strategy, it may cost them money, but it does help them to be engrained into the market place..3 years to fix a design fault ? Seriously ?

Most of what I have said is speculation, I cant prove it, but I wouldn't put it below MS to actually do things like this.. Some one else pointed out a link about astro turfing, this link goes quite heavily into it:

http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/06/astroturfers-are-masquerading/

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RockZillaX
Sunday, June 21, 2009 @ 11:15:12 AM
Reply

I totally agree.. I'm 38 and I have been gaming since I was a kid have had near every console.. I have a very capable PC, 2 x 360's, 2 x ps3's 1x 60gig and 1x 40gig, a Dreamcast, a PSP, wii etc etc..

The other day I commented on a thread I frequent about the difficulty not being changeable mid game in Prototype and in that I was having a hard time with it mostly because the Auto Lock sucks and the helicopter hijack fails more often than not.

Not that I am completely making an excuse for my hard time but several other gamers agreed with my point but then some moron comes in and starts going on about how its ridiculously easy and that it was laughable that anyone could be having a hard time with it.. I replied simply.. "your quite obviously better than everyone here clearly.. must be pretty awesome being you hey"

Then to top the cake some gaming hero starts going on about inFAMOUS and how great the PS3 is and how crap xbots and Prototype is.. this in turn starts off another childish flame war...

I ultimately just said that this thread is now a joke and signed out. In my opinion it has been like this ever since I first got on the net back in 1996..

Last edited by RockZillaX on 6/21/2009 11:18:09 AM

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djhyperio
Sunday, June 21, 2009 @ 12:11:59 PM
Reply

I agree, when someone starts a post on anything... there WILL be someone that says "this post is retarded, why would you write such a f@#$% post?"

Why cant people just NOT write anything on posts they believe to be retarded? It is THAT simple.
Or there should be a way to report such aggressive behavior without it going into "banning" but just a simple message by an admin. I know, I hate that we have to come to kindergarten again, but its the only way to educate these "responsibility and guilt - free" people.

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PaiNT_kinG
Sunday, June 21, 2009 @ 11:18:25 PM
Reply

King James for the win,LOL

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NetheRealm
Monday, June 22, 2009 @ 4:42:44 AM
Reply

Personally I received more personal attack hatred on ABC's The Bachelor forum during the "Brad the Cad" controversy than any other but I blame Microsoft & the pretencious Xbox for starting this whole Eye of Moron phenomena.

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NetheRealm
Monday, June 22, 2009 @ 5:15:46 AM
Reply

I think the intensity of the hostility is amped up more nowadays because everything in the media is so overscrutized & blown out of proportion & drug on endlessly to milk the ratings. People are so bored in their daily lives they are just waiting for any new bandwagon to come along so they can jump on it & get swept up in the cause & excitement of the moment. Put simply the text addicted A.D.D. generation of today gets a rise out of conflict & contoversy & fanboy flamewars is a readily accessible easily incited outlet.

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