id Software: All Gamers Will Have A "Great Rage Experience"
RageBy now, you should've heard about id Software's Rage, which is in the process of being developed for the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, PC and Mac.
Anything id and John Carmack does will get a lot of attention, but it got the wrong kind of attention last month, when an Edge magazine article ignited a spark of negativity in the PS3 community. He said that currently, while the 360 and PC versions were running at a very nice 50-60 frames per second, the PS3 was only functioning at 20-30 frames per second. But sometimes things progress more slowly when a designer isn't 100% familiar with a platform, and that doesn't mean the final product will be inferior. id tried to explain this in a recent Tweet:
"The Edge Magazine article has caused quite a ruckus. We are committed to ensuring that gamers on all platforms have a great RAGE experience."
There's no doubt that we have faith in id Software, but PS3 owners are beginning to "qualify" the developers: if they don't have a solid history with PlayStation products and their area of expertise in the past has centered almost entirely on PC hardware (and Xbox hardware, which is very similar), we have our reservations. Valve is a good example; that studio even admitted they'd have to "go out and get some PS3 guys" to really do things properly. So although we're certainly expecting identical Rage experiences across platforms, perhaps PS3 owners will notice id's history and...well, buy another version.
Related Game(s): RAGE
8/3/2009 Ben Dutka
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Comments (41 posts)
Deleted User
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 3:27:56 PM
1 up, 5 down
Jawknee
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 11:32:41 AM
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1 up, 1 down
Frenchy17
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 11:38:13 AM
0 up, 0 down
ohmikkie
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 12:38:46 PM
0 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 12:45:00 PM
4 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 @ 5:31:15 AM
valve and ID are legends in the community.
they made games what they are today.
halo gears quantum resistance killzone.
all these games wouldnt be half as good if it wasent for ID and valve.
now come to think of it they created better games for their time.
when doom came out everyone shat themselvs.
same for half life its still thought of as the best FPS how many years later.
those games were more of a revolution than what were getting today.
thats why people are riding on ID and valve, to raise the bar as they did with half life and doom, because no other company will.
if the bigger companys are having trouble with the ps3, imagine what the smaller companys will be going through.
the bigger companys like ID and valve can afford to have 2 teams working on each system, like capcom did with resi 5.
but smaller comapnys cant do that costs way to much cash, but at the end of the day your title is much better and it really shows you put more work into it.
i would love to see ps3 games selling better, because once that happened than hopefully devs would be more confident and willing to spend the extra cash and have different teams working on each version.
then and only then will we see MP games rising above the 360s.
that would be the best, separate teams working to bring the best out of each system.
0 up, 0 down
CaptRon
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 11:38:37 AM
Reply
0 up, 3 down
Oyashiro
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 @ 12:41:48 AM
1 up, 0 down
fatelementality
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 @ 1:12:05 AM
1 up, 0 down
Naga
Friday, August 07, 2009 @ 8:11:31 PM
0 up, 0 down
Dustinwp
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 12:04:22 PM
Reply
Last edited by Dustinwp on 8/3/2009 12:07:55 PM
3 up, 0 down
xnonsuchx
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 3:05:10 PM
2 up, 0 down
Dustinwp
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 4:47:50 PM
Last edited by Dustinwp on 8/3/2009 4:51:54 PM
1 up, 0 down
Nickjcal
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 12:09:24 PM
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5 up, 0 down
Andysw
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 12:39:03 PM
Last edited by Andysw on 8/3/2009 12:39:50 PM
4 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 12:51:09 PM
Last edited by Jawknee on 8/3/2009 12:56:19 PM
5 up, 0 down
Mornelithe
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 1:03:26 PM
ID's no slouch tho, they'll probably get it up to par by launch.
2 up, 0 down
mastiffchild
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 1:53:57 PM
They first moaned that the game had to be cut in size(possibly because of MS royalties on games over two discs long but never confirmed either way), then calmed 360 heads down by telling us all that it was "lead" platform. Then the 360 textures being off so they had to level up with PS3 and the poor framerate-none of which is from the finished game so who cares?
And now they're back to calming us PS3 owners down but had they stayed quiet noone would have mentioned anything!
The second issue is the usual multi play prob for PS3 gamers to worry over when a PC/360 heavy developer tries their first PS game this gen. IDK exactly why the PS3 version should be the one that suffers when games are running wel below the standard of PS3 exclusives like KZ2 or MGS4 but they do.
The weaknesses of both platforms are present for multi plat devs aiming for parity over their platforms and it just seems that a mix of them being more happy/used to MS/360 dev tools and unable/unwilling to ask the likes of Sony SM/ND/GG for advice means PS3 gets poorer, though by very little, versions even now.
iD have a great pedigree and though the majority of the fanbase is PC/GFW based you'd think they would be able to get a good and very similar experience on the go on both consoles even where some have struggled but the exact reasons behind why games optimised for neither PS or 360 run better on MS console remains beyond me.
I guess it has to be familiarity with the dev kits but haven't they seen what Sony's first party devs have managed?
1 up, 0 down
Nickjcal
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 2:02:58 PM
1 up, 0 down
Mornelithe
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 2:15:48 PM
2 up, 0 down
Nickjcal
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 2:26:32 PM
3 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 @ 10:32:33 AM
1) They have to think about something new, and the learning curve is steep. The CPU is new, and the 7 SPEs can be used in many ways which have to be learned. The compiler can only so so much, the developer has to make a lot of design decisions. On Xbox you have a CPU with three identical cores, and an application model that relies on a relatively standard multi-threading methods. For Xbox the developer can lean more on the compiler than they can on the PS3.
2) The PS3 takes a completely different mind set because your CPU has two types of core, and one of them is optimized for floating point math, but not limited to FP math. PS3 development requires developers to do a more thorough analysis of their game and it's code so that they can separate out the specific tasks that benefit from the SPEs extra speed with FP math, as well as the tasks that benefit from the ability to chain SPEs together in series. You also have to re-think some of the larger computational problems in your game and consider a parallel processing approach to get the most out of the Cell.
3) PC devs use Direct X, Xbox360 development tools and libraries are largely based on PC tools, so skills and library use such as Direct X translate directly. Although Sony uses OpenGL, no where near as many PC devs develop in Open GL as standard.
4) Finally, although the first party devs and Sony themselves have offered lots of help, and the tools have improved greatly, a lot of developers, especially folks like id and Valve, create custom engines and libraries for their games and don't want to incorporate the lessons or techniques of others, favoring their own way. Sony actually will work directly with developers, literally providing subject matter experts for Cell and RSX programming, but the developers need to ask for the help for it to be provided. Pride may get in the way, as may confidentiality fears.
However, after this round of development is complete, id will be in a much better position to work on their next game, and may even see the benefits of working more closely with Sony.
0 up, 0 down
King James
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 12:59:14 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 2:23:41 PM
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1 up, 0 down
xnonsuchx
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 3:09:58 PM
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1 up, 0 down
Deleted User
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 3:32:24 PM
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0 up, 6 down
Highlander
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 @ 11:01:02 AM
Other than that, the Sony device is still by and large the more powerful device, with the more difficult programming model, but the longer designed life. I'll make no bones about it, in some ways I wish Sony had pushed the envelope and simply gone with two CellBEs, but they chose to go with a GPU instead. Fundamentally the RSX and Xenos are similar, and in some ways the Xenos is better, and in some ways the RSX is better. If you can harness the specific abilities of each to your advantage each can be made to sing and dance. Multi-plat games are not in a position to do that, and typically default to the lowest common denominator, or Direct3D (part of DirectX), which ever comes first. For games with a PC release, you know that it will be DirectX/Direct3D first and foremost with a port to Open GL and PS3 afterwards. This is unfortunately not the best way to develop a game from a PS3 point of view, but makes perfect sense if you're trying to hit all three platforms I mentioned.
Although OpenGL is implemented in the PC world (it's actually used in many OS environments and is not specifically designed for games), it's often considered a poor performance option for games because the drivers and libraries are not native to Windows. In the past, OpenGL ran partially in user mode and partially in kernel mode forcing a performance sapping mode switch. Microsoft designed DirectX specifically to support better game performance in Windows NT/2K/XP where applications don't have direct access to the hardware. DirectX provides a more direct interface to the hardware for game developers. PC developers therefore program for DirectX first, and program for OpenGL as a compatibility option if an application is to be portable across other platforms. id Software and Valve are fundamentally PC developers who have gotten into console programming. Because Xbox 360's APIs are based on Direct3D, DirectX/Direct3D is/was the easiest starting point for them.
0 up, 0 down
Alienange
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 3:51:06 PM
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5 up, 0 down
tlpn99
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 4:55:17 PM
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0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 6:52:30 PM
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John Carmack has too much pride in himself and his work to allow a substandard product out. He expressed some reservations about the PS3 before but felt it was time to work on it. He's now said some positive things about it, and I honestly don't see him backing down there, he'll find a way to make it work.
3 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 @ 5:33:07 AM
im expecting it late 2010 if not 2011.
but to miss out on RAGE would be a massive mistake.
it will revolutionize the industry.
its going to set the bar higher than a game has done before, i have verry high expectations for RAGE i hope they dont let me down.
1 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, August 04, 2009 @ 5:09:52 AM
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i read the article off CVG and the ammount of babys insulting his programming skills.
wake the ... up.
ID are the FPS gods.
there the dady of FPS.
they gave us wolfenstiene 3D.
they gave us DOOM.
they gave us PREY.
like god if that does not show your commitment and skill what does?
as far as im concerned anything with a ID badge on it will be pure gold.
put simply they dont know how to make a bad game.
but i know what system im getting rage on.
and doom 4 for that fact.
now all thats remaining is PREY 2.
come on ID, DO IT! DO IT! NOW!!!!
0 up, 0 down
___________
Thursday, August 06, 2009 @ 9:35:25 AM
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playing through haze again, that game had allot of potentional.
a little more polish and it could of been the halo killer we all wanted.
since it was a ps3 exclusive and had allot riding on it you would think sony would constantly check up on it to see how their going.
than they would see the games really buggy jump in and say hey guys this is unacceptable, than send a programmer in to help ubisoft.
it looks like ubi were out in the cold with haze with no help from sony what so ever.
and now coincidence SP Conviction is a 360 exclusive because ubi said M$ has given them allot of support.
may be haze was the deal breaker for splinter cell conviction? nice job sony.
they need to help out allot more 3rd party devs.
thats what devs have allways been saying that M$ is always going out of their way to help them, you never hear 3rd party devs saying this about the ps3 only 1st partys do.
0 up, 0 down
Hezzron
Reply
Monday, August 03, 2009 @ 10:57:37 AM