PS3 News: Console War: It's A Two-Horse Race, Not Three - PS3 News

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Console War: It's A Two-Horse Race, Not Three

This has to stop. And while I'm certain the Wii fans out there will quickly scoff and say, "that's just because you know that Sony or Microsoft has no hope of catching Nintendo in terms of sales," that's hardly the point. The point - for the six millionth time - is that the Wii is not in direct competition with the PlayStation 3 or Xbox 360.

With the recent surge of the PS3, the question has returned: can Sony catch Nintendo? Can it "win" this generation as far as overall sales are concerned? Well, considering the huge lead the Wii has, it seems unlikely or, at the very least, it'll take a while for the PS3 to catch up. However, all of this is irrelevant as it seems clear to me that while the PS3 and 360 target a certain demographic, the Wii targets an entirely different demographic. And now, with the release of the stellar Uncharted 2, it becomes even more evident that the PS3 and Wii offer completely different entertainment experiences. Now, in no way am I saying one is "better" than the other, but I have yet to know anyone who actively plays the Wii and also owns a PS3 and 360 and if they do, it's so they can play with the kids or with a spouse. The bottom line is that the PS3 and 360 are here to drive the industry forward in a certain area; in the realm of technology and overall advancement. The Wii gives us an alternate interactive experience, and that is perfectly viable - obviously - but if you don't think Gears of War 2 and Wii Resort don't cater to different people looking for different things, you're out of your mind.

I've said it before and I always catch a lot of flak for it, but I think it's that my words are misinterpreted. When I say the Wii caters to the non-gamers out there, I'm saying it successfully attracts those who never once touched a video game controller before Nintendo's new system. And when I say the other two are for gamers, it's because those who have loved the hobby with a passion for many years are - typically - more drawn to that type of progressive software. I use Uncharted 2 as an example simply because it really proves that we're looking at a gap - a widening gap - between PS3/360 software and Wii software. As I predicted a long time ago, the Wii would blast off quick but the software would begin to lag and if you haven't noticed, it seems almost impossible that a Wii game will ever compete for Game of the Year in 2009 or in the future. Honestly, it's not fair, anymore. You can't compare Forza 3 or Modern Warfare 2 to anything on the Wii; that's a ridiculous comparison.

Hence, it's also ridiculous to compare the sales numbers. Once again, this is not a knock against the Wii; I'm simply saying it's different; that it goes after a different group of people. Yes, I'm sure there are those of you who own all three systems but I can pretty much guarantee that very few of you play each of those three consoles equally... And for my part, I only know people who either own a PS3 and 360 or a Wii and nothing else. They're either into video games, or they're into this new fad of interactive entertainment the Wii created. There's nothing wrong with any personal preference but considering what we're seeing from Sony and Microsoft in 2009 and beyond, we really need to stop comparing all three sales numbers as if the games on all three are somehow similar, and that consumers purchase all three for similar reasons. Just...stop.

10/22/2009 12:26:56 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (179 posts)

Deleted User []
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 12:46:44 PM
Reply

My sentiments exactly. While the Wii has some great games, the majority of owners are people who don't frequent gaming websites, don't read game reviews and think mini-games are all video gaming is all about. It's PS3 vs 360. The Wii is competing against different products and a different group of people.

Nintendo should enjoy the GOTY they received for Super Mario Galaxy; they aren't ever going to win another one.

Last edited by n/a on 10/22/2009 12:50:53 PM

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Lazytrappin
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:49:33 PM

The Wii is a quality system and I'm sure a lot of people are satisfied with the system, but I consider myself a "hardcore" gamer and the Wii just cannot entertain me enough. I really don't even consider the Wii a "next gen" console. Give me High-def or give me death.

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Deleted User
Sunday, October 25, 2009 @ 5:21:54 AM

The Wii has Zelda and that's about the only reason I want it... luckly I played the last one on my gamecube so I don't need to buy a Wii for a while I can focus on getting my roof fixed and saving up for the PS3 I was going to buy this month

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blaqsmyth
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 12:51:42 PM
Reply

i totally agree but i'm confident that the ps3 will rule

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Jed
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 12:58:56 PM
Reply

I don't think they are totally different beasts here. There are a lot of areas where the consoles just cant compete with each other, But the PS3 and 360 are now trying to be more like the Wii with their motion control developments.

But I do agree that so far, the "true" next gen systems (PS3 & 360), have been in a totally different category than the Wii.

Of course, if Sony and Microsoft are successful with their motion efforts, the only thing the Wii will have left is an inferior machine and their major game franchises.

Last edited by Jed on 10/22/2009 12:59:39 PM

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Alienange
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:58:30 PM

PS3 and 360 aren't trying to be like the Wii. They're just showing that the Wii is an add-on not a full game system.

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Jed
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 11:52:00 PM

Good point

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jdt1981
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 12:59:27 PM
Reply

I agree, The Wii is a direct competitor to the PS3 and Xbox 360 like the Toyota Corolla is a direct competitor to the Rolls-Royce and Cadillac.

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AshT
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:09:57 PM

lol that was funny

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___________
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:21:42 AM

well they are.
both are big square bits of metal with 4 wheels.
just because there marketed to diferent people does not mean there not in competition with each other.

Last edited by ___________ on 10/23/2009 1:23:48 AM

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Douchebaguette
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:04:43 PM
Reply

I shall say it again:


The person who ultimately wins the battle is the one that never realised there was a battle to begin with.

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Highlander
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:37:52 PM

True, in may ways the console war is simply a construct of the market observers and commentators (including us). Sony (and the others) for sure pay more attention to turning a profit and executing their business plan. However, it's fun to analyze the market and make predictions...

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Cavan
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:05:26 PM
Reply

totally agree, you cannot compare the systems, developers dont bother making multi plat games for the wii, multiplat means for xbox n ps3, this didnt use to be the case, i remember a soul calibre game last gen where each console had a unique character, one for gamecube ps2 n xbox. this gen soul calibre did the same thing with yoda n darth vader, but only for xbox n ps3, as the wii does not compete with the other 2, my wii collects dust until my mates come round and we wanna bash of tennis or golf or summing, even then it takes a back seat to PES and GT5P.

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Solid Fantasy
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:51:27 PM

seeing that picture kind of makes me want to play Kill Zone 2 right now.

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Snaaaake
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:15:14 PM
Reply

I really wonder if the Wii has a chance to reach 100m or even breaking PS2's sale.

And Ben is right, comparing PS3/360 and Wii is like comparing a high class wine and Coke.

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coverton341
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:18:30 PM

Well that's a bit of a misleading comparison there because most people who drink high class wines do coke...oh wait you meant...right right...I forgot this isn't still the 80's

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bearbobby
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:26:03 PM

Cocaine's a helluva drug...

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fstop
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:43:11 PM

LMFAO!
What movie was this from? I remember this line from somewhere.
Bearbobby, I'd give you another thumb up but sadly I can't.

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dlte
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 7:13:54 PM

it was from chappelles show, rick james says it.

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fstop
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 7:37:10 PM

dlte - Thanks!
LOL! It's alllll coming back to me now.
Hate it when that happens.

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coverton341
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:16:49 PM
Reply

You know, out of all the "hardcore" gamers I know, myself included, ALL have either owned both systems or still own both systems. Both being the 360 and the PS3, and out of those "hardcore" gamers none of them have owned a Wii.

That isn't to say that no "hardcore" gamers own a Wii, I just don't personally know any. I don't count people I know from the internet, because I don't really know them.

And the fact that the people I know own both systems or at least used to, lends to my thinking that the gamers who don't have any "brand loyalty" are the real winners in this whole thing.

Both true next gen systems have been out for long enough for true "hardcore" gamers to save up enough and get both systems, and with the great exclusives that are on both systems, yes both systems have great exclusives, coupled with the fact that both have had significant price cuts there really is no reason not to own both systems.

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Jed
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:24:21 PM

I had a wii for a while. But after I played Zelda and Re4(which was badass on the wii) I didnt really have a need for it. So I got a psp 2000 and some other stuff.

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Jawknee
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:38:37 PM

I think I'm pretty hardcore and I own a Wii. Virtual Console Is great, Oprah web browser works better and is more user friendly then the PS3 browser. And of course any fan of Nintendo's steller franchises like Zelda and Metroid must own a Wii. So far this gen Wii and PS3 have been great. Xbox didn't do it for me and I got tired of repairing it. I wish Nintendo would hurry and release a new Metroid or Zelda but I can wait.

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johnld
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:31:26 PM

i bought the gamecube version of legend of zelda twilight princess since i wasnt and never would be sold on a waggle controlled zelda game.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:32:08 PM

"You know, out of all the "hardcore" gamers I know, myself included, ALL have either owned both systems or still own both systems. Both being the 360 and the PS3, and out of those "hardcore" gamers none of them have owned a Wii."

Exactly.

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mastiffchild
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 11:32:33 AM

I know Ben has ALWAYS had an issue with the Wii(and he's not alone AND I understand why completely)but as someone who started gaming on the coin ops in my parent's pubs in th late 70's and early 80's(Space Invaders through Galaxian, Astro Wars and Pacman to DK and the introduction of some erstwhle plumber!)I still think there's a place for the Wii in my life and class myself as a pretty serious gamer.

Whatever your opinion of the Wii and it's horsepower deficiency the fact uis that, as a core gamer, you cannot play some of the best and most iconic franchises new titles without one. Jawknee's right about there being hardcore gamers who want to play the next(and last) SMG, Metroid, Zelda, SSB, Punchout!!, S&P2(which, to me, is about as core a title as you'll find in many ways)and a few other classic franchises we're yet to see(Fzero and Starfox anyone?)-and yhey need a Wii.

I get the accusations of Ninty not suporting 3rd paries or not pushing tech this gen. I even agree that they haven't always even made great use of the motion controls they ushered in and certainly didn't help out other devs enough along the way enough(no demos etc on Wii Connect for gamers to try out more mature Wii games which helped them die a lot imo abnd has led to fewer being made). However, a hardcore gamer should want to at least see what Mario's latest proper game is like, see the glorious work of Retro on the Prime series(and now TN with Other M)and so on despite there being fewer games for them in general on the Wii.

Hell, I liked Madworld, Overkill and Extraction this year from 3rds on the Wii with Punchout!! from Ninty themselves and that's as many games as I've played on my 360 this year! Granted that's cos it's been a lean year for 360 exclusives and I'm waitng for Tales on PS3 AND play my multis on PS3 but you see my point and next year should see SMG2, Other M, NMH2 and Res Steel2 among others on the Wii worth playing for proper gamers, no?

Sure the crap on Wii can be overwhelming and no there isn't the same amount of great games as there is on PS3 or 360(esp not now Sony'sdevs are pumping out cassics) but whatever it's issues this gamer doens't wanna miss a good thing when it's released and Zelda and Metroid, esp, are among my favourite series ever made. Accept it as an occasional treat provider Ben and you'll get the benefit of the odd gem now and then.

On the other side of the coin it's also brought a lot of people into gaming and, long term, that means MORE core gamers and not fewer so ultimately Wii could prove a great thing for all of gaming, no? Don't let it get to you fella!

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Imagi
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:26:31 PM
Reply

How many Wii owners do you know that have bought a game that is anything other than Wii Fit or Wii Play? (which people buy to get a second controller), I know just one.

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Dridion
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:05:26 PM

@Ben

I agree with you 99% as I do most of the time however there's still that 1% that's missing. In terms of the people who have all three systems, I know few. Yea I know I said few, but hey, it counts for something. You are right that most people don't have all three BUT, for the people who do own them, I think it's safe to say that not all do so for reasons to play with their kids and or spouse. It's not the majority and that's why I only tool out a percent ;) however I just thought that was SLIGHTLY unfair.

I know, I know, watch me catch some heat for this...o well.

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PS3addict
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:37:46 PM

Me...
I have 41 games on my usb hard drive. I also have the recently re-done Contra game as a channel. If you look at the store, there are a crap load of nes, snes and 64 games worth getting as well.
Trust me when I say that I am a gamer, not a fanboy, I love all of my systems. It is just that the wii has some games that I want to play that are not on any other platform.
I would never admit it is a true gaming system up in the ranks of my beloved PS3, but it is a gaming system...

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Alienange
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:03:17 PM

@PS3addict - So you love your Wii for all those great... NES and SNES games? Ooookaaaay.

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PS3addict
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:41:50 PM

@ Alienage...
No, that is not the only reason, but it is a redeaming quality.

there are a few great games on the wii:
Punchout
Zelda
House of the dead (All 3 are fun)
Miramusa Demon blade
Cursed Mountain
Metroid Prime 1-3
Mario Galaxy

Slim picks, no doubt, but they are fun. Yeah, the graphics suck, but I am after nastalgia and good old gaming fun whern I turn that system on. I was never expecting next gen, but I was expecting a new metroid...


Yes, I love the fact that I can play my old school games on a newer system, but that is not why I like the wii. I think it is fun, and I like some games on it. I agree that the system will never be up with the big dogs even though they have the IP to do it with, but again, there are a FEW games worth playimg on it.

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Jawknee
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:26:49 PM
Reply

I'm a huge Nintendo and Wii fan and I agree. I see don't them as competition either. PS3 may or may not outsell the Wii but it doesn't matter. It's importent for Sony to succeed over MS. MS have done more harm then good to games this gen and letting them become the dominant force in the market is a path way to mediocrity and regression.

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mykjessnjr
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:31:24 PM
Reply

I think of the Wii as a sort of novelty item: fun, cute, laughable... but not much depth to it...great as a gag gift. Shovelware will be their downfall..too many of the same old, tired ideals, just repackaged.

I've owned two of 'em and I've sold two of 'em. I bought the first as a 'family' gift- never played it. Bought the second for my son- who is 5, going on 6- he plays my PS3 more- so got rid of that one. I'll prolly end up buying him the slimboy for his birthday so I can reclaim my fatboy...sorry, off topic a bit..haha

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Naga
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:46:13 PM
Reply

Its simple the Wii is a toy

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rowdy
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:53:22 PM
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As usual, this editorial brings up some well thought out and logical points. It's just a shame that atleast half the word count needs to be taken up with disclaimers to satisfy agressive fanboys that don't even read the article to see the disclaimers.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:33:10 PM

Yeah, that's unfortunate, isn't it?

I get the feeling that if N4G didn't exist, though, I probably wouldn't have to. I can trust most of the PSXE readership to understand what I'm saying without the disclaimers.

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piratedrunk
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:41:57 PM

I own all 3 and also agree the Wii is not competition to the ps3. They clearly offer very different experiences.

That being said as someone who has been a gamer for 20 years I find just as many games worth playing on the Wii as on the ps3. Both get very equal playtime from me while my 360 collects dust.

It is because the Wii and PS3 are different that I even own both to begin with while I regret my 360 because of it's similarities to the PS3 while offering very little in terms of exclusives I enjoy.

In fact even though the ps3 has some insanely good games coming out lately my most anticipated games for the next 2 months or so are all Wii exclusive games.

EDIT: I'm not sure why this went here this was not intended as a reply

Last edited by piratedrunk on 10/22/2009 3:42:36 PM

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JcBball717
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 1:57:46 PM
Reply

we all knew the wii would fall off cuz its for 5 year old chinese girls

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PS3addict
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:31:59 PM
Reply

Well, I do agree with the majority of the article except for the statement that "but I have yet to know anyone who actively plays the Wii and also owns a PS3 and 360 and if they do, it's so they can play with the kids or with a spouse." Of course, you do not personnally know me, but I play Miramusa demon blade and house of the dead on the wii pretty often. Me, not the kids or the wife, but me the hardcore gamer of the house...
I am also dabbling in Cursed Mountain, and I played the hell out of Zelda. Next are the Metroid Trilogy games.

I am on my second run of Uncharted 2 on hard, and am loving it. Not to say that the wii competes with my PS3 or even my PS2, but there are a FEW good games that I play. Oh yeah, Punchout.. Another great wii game I play at least 2 times a week...

Last edited by PS3addict on 10/22/2009 2:33:04 PM

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www
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:46:17 PM

Yea am also on my 2nd run on Hard. This time am going as Schafer, he looks funny performing all those stunts hahahaaaaa..........I LOVE Uncharted 2!

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johnld
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:51:25 PM

i beat uncharted on hard first cause i cant be bothered to play games on normal settings anymore. Beat the game in less than 1 day. I also beat it on crushing in about the same time. Once you figure out the strategy in hard mode, crushing will be cake for you man.

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Highlander
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:32:15 PM
Reply

Ben, You've been preaching this for a long time. So have I, since the bloody Wii launched, in fact. There are two markets in gaming High Definition and Standard Definition. To get the best of a PS3 or 360 you have to have an HDTV, to get the best from a Wii or PS2 you have to have a standard TV (SDTV). The market clearly segments by technology. The 'next generation' that was supposed to be what this generation is was all about High Definition. Well, the Wii isn't and can't be High Definition. Therefore it's not in the same market. The competition for the Wii is the PS2. It always has been this way since the Wii launched.

You can talk about the kinds of games the Wii plays, and the kinds of gamers that Wii targets, and they are all good points that further separate the Wii from the PS3/360.

I am so sick of people talking about Wii as if it mattered to either Microsoft or Sony. It truly doesn't because they are not the same consumers. If Wii was selling to the same consumers, the same market and demographic segments than Microsoft and Sony might have something to think about. Now the thing is, Sony has been selling the PS3 to a more affluent market segment than the 360 for the last three years. Most consumers had not caught on that the PS3 was in fact already less costly (on balance) than the 360. They looked at the sticker, and PS3 was relegated to those who wanted a BluRay player, those who just had to have the latest Playstation and those who wanted both and had the money. Microsoft on the other hand targeted a more price sensitive consumer and went after the supposed lower end of the market. Conventional wisdom would say that the 360 should outsell the PS3 on this basis alone. But is didn't. At 35 months from launch, the PS3 is in a better position sales wise, than the 360 was at it's 35 month mark. The PS3 has sold better than the 360 did, despite heavy competition and a disadvantageous price. Now The PS3 costs the same as the 360, based on the sticker price, and the 360 comes with an extra $50 Albatross around it's neck called XBL fees. The PS3 is demonstrably less expensive, clearly has more features with the BluRay player, and does everything that the 360 does. Not to mention games like Uncharted 2.

Where am I going with this stream of thought?

Here.

Wii is not competition for the PS3, it's up against 140 million PS2s and cheap gaming. 360 is the competition, and it's easy to demonstrate why the PS3 is already in a superior position. I have not mentioned the reliability and monstrous numbers of 360 consoles sold as replacements for dead 360s. Nor have I drawn in the contrasting positions of PS3/360 in Japan, Europe and the rest of the world, against the North American market.

If I were Microsoft, I would be very concerned. I don't know if they ever worry. For the first time, they followed Sony with a pricing move - to catch up. The PS3 led sales in every region globally in September. Halo 3 ODST had, for a Halo game, crap sales numbers and the major JRPGs are now coming to PS3, with enhancements. I believe that the smoke and mirrors are being warmed up in Redmond for the Holiday season and a Project Natal launch in the spring. Unless Natal brings a virtual character that's prettier than Megan Fox, I don't see the traditional 360 user base jumping on it, and Sony has exclusive after exclusive coming month after month. A difficult position for Microsoft.

It's not necessarily plain sailing for Sony, but the troubled waters of the last three years should be calming down for them.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:33:57 PM

Extremely well said. Agree 100%. :)

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Gone
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:39:00 PM

@TheHighlander

Which HDTV do you own, because I can't seem to find a 32" that does not have the ghosting problem?

Last edited by Gone on 10/22/2009 2:39:43 PM

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johnld
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:49:28 PM

To tell the truth, i'm not sold on this motion tech and natal. Its gonna be a while for the games to come out that makes it worth it. Well, i dont know about sony because their many first party studios were probably hard at work already. All microsoft got is money but it could be enough to dig themselves out a bit. They should have focused on getting first party studios or actually keeping the studios they had.

I see great potential with sony's motion controllers just because we know what happens when sony's first party studios can do (uncharted 2) when they focus on it.

Microsoft's Natal on the other hand, I feel isnt quite as strong. I mean, i dont want to talk to a damn digital kid like like lionhead studios. It does promise more immersion with games but if hard core gamers are like me, i tend to play for more than an hour at a time. having my arm being held out for racing games or jumping around the whole time like that ball demo they had for E3, fatigue will set in. Not to mention that microsofts accessory pricing is rediculous which will be a entry barrier for this.

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Highlander
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:10:03 PM

@ZZZ, I have a viewsonic 32-inch 720p/1080i HDTV, a 23-inch viewsonic 720p/1080i HDTV/Monitor, and a 22-inch Asus 1080p monitor. I don't get any ghosting on my screens, although the older viewsonic has developed an area that's a little darker than the rest of the screen, it looks like the backlight may have a problem. It's very slight, and the TV is more than 3 years old now.

@Johnld
I don't see how it can offer more immersion. Sony has EyePet which only uses the PSEye and allows you to interact with a virtual pet in your own living room. The pet tracks your movements and responds to things you do, and draw. I'm not sure if Eyepet includes speech recognition, but SingStar does. Combine these capabilities with the additional functionality of the new controller when it comes along. How does Natal offer more than that?

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johnld
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 6:23:35 PM

@thehighlander

I wasnt trying to compare it to the sony technology, i was talking more of a generality concerning how games are played now. Example instead of moving the control stick to move a car, you can actually mimic real world driving technically by moving your arms. I dont have any big problems with motion technology. my concern is more about gamer fatigue. I like racing games and FPS games but having to hold my hand out pretending to drive or holding a gun can be quite taxing when done for continous play like i do. i can easily play 2-3 hours straight playing COD4 or Killzone 2. But the fact that sony is also using motion tech which could mean that you might have to do the same action with other sony Fps games, i just see natal as more complicated and taxing.

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:22:06 AM

@John

I gotcha. Well, I'm a big skeptic when it comes to motion capture/sensing/control in video games. I think it has a place in specific games, and with specific novel control schemes. However, I don't think that the Dual Shock is in any danger of disappearing.

Personally I think that this whole fashion to being motion controls to PS3 and 360 is a bit like the Emperor's new clothes. Are we all just to afraid to say that the big fat dude with the crown is naked as the day he was born?

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 3:53:22 AM

@Highlander

Sony needs to use your first post as a marketing campaign. Just sweeten it up with catch phrases and such. Your right on target on the entire situation.

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blaineca
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 9:36:20 AM

I can agree with a lot of what you say... BUT... if 360 is the only competition, why is it that SONY until just recently has pretty much FAILED to beat down the competition when one third of their machines end up DEAD?

Quite simply there is a huge segment of PS2 owners who have moved on to the Wii and have not yet invested in a PS3. I would think that a former PS2 owner that owns a Wii would be EXACTLY the segment that SONY would like to win back. Even if the technology is not up to snuff, that would still mean that Nintendo is the competition. I'm looking at this as a business man. If I saw all these people that own PS2s moving on to Wii I'd be pissed off! I wouldn't consider it a non threat or not competition!

If their only competition is a company that can't produce quality hardware, and they still don't have a significant lead, then they are FAILURES. I think the story is different. I think they lost a good portion of their PS2 audience to the Wii... for the time being. I also believe that they will be back when there is a more diverse catalog for the PS3 and it's cheap enough.

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 9:58:42 AM

@blaineca
How has Sony failed to beat the competition (360)? If you re-read my original post you'll note that what I am saying is that even without the impact of the RROD on the 360, I would argue that Sony is in fact in a superior position to the 360 after 3 years compared to the 360 after 3 years. For Sony to have 'beaten' the 360 any time during the 1st year of the PS3, they'd have had to sell at double the rate of the 360, for the PS3 to 'beat' the 360 during it's second year, it would have had to outsell the 360 by 50% month after month. The PS3 didn't do this. However, despite being anything up to $300 more than the 360 (based on the sticker price difference between a 'core' 360 and a 60GB PS3), the PS3 sold as well as the 360, even though that 360 was already on the market with a rapidly building library of games.

If you analyze the market performance of the PS3 and 360 individually, they are very similar, except for the context. The 360 have a 1 year lead where it was the only horse in the race. The PS3 arrived with an established competitor and it had a very high entry price. Yet, despite that it sold as well or better than the 360 did in it's first year.

So without factoring in the RROD the PS3 can still be siad to be in a superior position. When you factor in the RROD fiasco and leave the open question about how many 360s sold are spare/replacement units purchased by owners of dead 360s, then there is no doubt to me at all that the PS3 has 'beaten' the competition.

One last hurdle remains though, and that is the psychological one. Too many gamers and journalists only look at and listen to the market statistics for North America. The perception that the 360 is somehow winning is fed only by the relative sales numbers in the US. When you look globally, the picture is different. For these gamers and journalists, Sony will only be considered to 'win' of they sell more units in North America. While I would agree that North America is a very large territory in the Global Market, it's not the only territory.

As for the Wii and PS2, they are both Standard Definition consoles, I don't believe that this is the same market. Consumers with PS2s who decide to purchase a Wii were not necessarily going to upgrade to a PS3 anyway. Either they are a non HDTV household, or the PS2 (and Wii) is a secondary console in a childs bedroom (or other secondary location). The PS3 is both a BluRay Player and HD gaming console, it is firmly linked with HDTVs. Consumers that have not yet moved up to HDTV will not purchase a PS3 before their HDTV. Yes, I am certain that Sony would like to have more of the PS2 owners upgrade to the PS3, but until those consumers join the HDTV market, that's not going to happen. Personally, I think that the PS2 is doing a fantastic job of competing against the Wii. The PS2 is 10 years old and yet is still selling well despite the presence of the Wii.

All those PS2/Wii owning Standard Definition consumers are massing to move up to HDTV though. HD is less expensive than ever before and the PS3 is not at an accessible price as well. For someone moving up to HDTV, a BluRay player is the next logical investment. PS3 offers that along with gaming for a price that's modestly higher than a Wii. Sounds like a decent proposition to me.

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johnld
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:36:22 PM
Reply

I have all three systems and usage goes like this
PS3>XBOX 360> Wii. Actually right now, ps3 gets the most use while my 360 and Wii use is equal at nonexistance. I did play infinite undiscovery for a while, found it 10 bucks at hollywood video, you know, that rental store. the game was new too. but after that its all ps3 thanks to uncharted 2, lack of 360 games i want to play, the wii just being itself, and not being able to justify the xbox live subscription.

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www
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 2:50:26 PM
Reply

Nintendo Wii is a big joke. I actually saw some screens of Fifa 10 on Wii, and boy it looked maybe worse than the PS2, seriously is that how the Wii graphics look?

Last edited by www on 10/22/2009 2:50:43 PM

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Hexen
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:01:03 PM
Reply

We may not consider the wii competition and we may also say that it's not part of this console war; but the thing is that the media doesn't see the wii like that.In the public eye they see that the wii came out in the same year as the PS3 so therefore they are in the competition.So in the future when everyone looks back they'll see and say that the wii nominated the the PS360.As for the PS3 vs 360; Looking at the sales chart I notice that the PS3 is outselling the 360 but not by that much, so I wonder if the PS3 will have a any real shot at caching up.

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Victor321
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:14:17 PM
Reply

I own all 3 ^.^

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bigrailer19
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:14:22 PM
Reply

im not gonna type a big ol' long thing like highlander did.

but i will say i own my PS3 and bought a wii, never ownded a 360 and never plan on it, not cus i dont like it but cus i cant justify owning a machine for just a couple of games i might wanna play since i have the machine. but when it came down to it (assuming i had a 360 as well) i would rather fork out the $60 on a PS3 game over the 360 game, so again there is no justification to own both for me!

i did buy the wii and although i can say id rather have a 360 than the wii i wish i didnt have either! i bought the wii for myself and g/f to play she enjoys it and she likes the fact she can download some of her fav. super nintendo games like dk, and some older marios, which i actually like to but other than that its not for me! i much rather would have not bought it and only had my one console, and kept the money (even though the wii was bought 2 years ago) for this holiday season cus ill need it!

my point is the wii doesnt cater to me and i know im the type of audience who loves games and wants to play games! i dont need to jump around my room, although it may add something extra! im fine with my two analog sticks! i enjoyed the wii for a short while, and i really enjoyed Super mario galaxy which i havnt finished which just goes to show the wii is not up to par, as much as i liked mario on the wii i keep playing my PS3 games over it! on the flip side i did like the eye toy when it came out too, then again i havnt touched that thing for atleast 3 years so i guess these types of things are fads, and to the gamer like myself fade away, and the interest remains to the "hardcore" gaming console that is progressing!

I agree with you Ben, you make good points. Another point i wanna make is my house is split up, there are 4 people in it 2 hard core gamers and 2 casual gamers, myself being hardcore owning a PS3 and a wii. the wii isnt even at my house any longer, and the other owning a PS3 and a 360. the 360 sits on his sub unplugged at all times, that also could care less for the wii. the other 2 are casual gamers, one owns a PS3 but dont care for the wii, and the other owns a PS3 and a wii, and he dont play either alot but enjoys both, but hes a dork so... the wii fits in a weird spot in my house, there is two people who own one but only one of them actually plays it and enjoys it who is the casual gamer of us all so, point is the wii is fading and its def not in the same category as proven by my household!

wow this is longer than i though lol! good call in the begging...NOT!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/22/2009 3:20:22 PM

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Cavan
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:44:01 PM
Reply

hexen
when you say its not out selling the 360 by that much, are you just looking at the american numbers?? kos that out sold the 360 by about 120,000 units in september, however world wide, i belive it out sold it by over 500,000 units, for a one month period thats a whole load of catching up.

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ares777
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:47:22 PM
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I have never seen so much interest in a race for second and third place. Honestly, Nintendo has won! Stop being delusional. It doesn't matter how little YOU play it or how DIFFERENT it is. It won! You guys weren't saying it didn't count BEFORE the console war did you? It's sad that you dorks don't just admit it. The numbers DO matter, they mean everything. I have all 3 consoles myself and I play them all so yes, some of us have no agenda and STILL play into the arguement. And what right do any of YOU fools have to say Nintendo doesn't count? I mean, you can say they suck, say they hate hardcore(nerd) gamers, or whatever else. But to say they don't count when they are obviously WINNING...that just looks bad.

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piratedrunk
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:53:54 PM

Is it possible for someone who manages to produce a rant like this to also have zero reading comprehension? My mind.. blown.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:04:22 PM

First, I in fact DID say the Wii was never in competition with either the PS3 or 360 even before it launched. I knew what it was and who it would cater to.

Second, if you want to find a way to compare the software, be my guest. It's not comparable; hence, the experiences aren't comparable; hence, the interested consumers will be different.

Thirdly, you can't call people fools at this site. I know they allow it at that sh**hole N4G - where I KNOW you came from - but that doesn't happen here. So...goodbye.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:09:16 PM

u missed the point "dork"!

ur right the wii is winning in terms of sales, but its by far not winning by terms of quality products. the ps3 and 360, more so the PS3 are progreesing the industry, while although they brought a new fad, the wii and nintendo are now at a stand still because they didnt progress forward.

the wii will count in the numbers, but there is a bigger picture you missed, and honestly if u consider the wii to be on par with either the PS3 or the 360 in terms of advancement in the industry, then you good sir are truly the "DORK"!

The wii is in a hole and has nowhere to go while the PS3 keeps getting stronger and stronger! as stated the wii sol, and now is slowing tremendously, while the PS3 has been picking up pace since lauanch

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Alienange
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:22:11 PM

Wow, Ben swoops in for the assassination. That kid never had a chance...

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Highlander
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:16:02 PM

I have said since before the 360 launched that this generation is/was about the transition of games to HD technology. Nintendo didn't miss the boat, they refused to step aboard, choosing to remain with the standard definition model. I have been saying that Wii is not a competitor since before it launched simply because it is not an HD device unlike the PS3 and 360.

The fact that there are no games that are on all three current gaming platforms because the Wii cannot handle them simply adds to the gap between Wii and PS3/360.

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Hexen
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:43:52 PM

Ben you seem to have a deep hatred towards N4G;Does an old rival of your work there?

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Qubex
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:27:39 PM

ares777, we are not fools... only a little foolish sometimes :)

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by Qubex on 10/22/2009 9:33:27 PM

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NiteKrawler
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:07:40 AM

Ares, try Econ. 101 bud. Each console caters to a DIFFERENT demographic. The Wii is about as much competition to the PS3 as a broom is to a mop.

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 6:33:00 AM

I don't know....we've trashed you enough but all I got to add is, when our DLC looks better than games you buy for $50 then maybe you have to stop and ask yourself..."Am I the fool?"

My two Abrahams...

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frostface
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 3:55:16 PM
Reply

Well it's my Mam's birthday in 2 weeks and ya know what she's asking for??? A wii and a wii-fit! I have friend who works in a nursing home and they have several Nintendo wii's for the oldies...apparently it's great for aiding them in mobility!? I guess when I pick the one up for my Ma's birthday I'll have to show her how to use it of course (I'm secretly looking forward to having a shot at it). But then it's back to the old faithful Ps3 for me.

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Qubex
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:29:25 PM

You're a good son frostface :) Admittedly, I may have to get one for my mother as well... she has been asking for one.

Q!

"i am home"

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oldmike
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:19:07 AM

i am the odd one my mom has a 360 well its her 2ed the 1st red ringed
i keep trying to get her to get a PS3 if just for blu-ray

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 6:36:12 AM

Dude, that thing is pure false advertising. She isn't gonna get in shape with that! I can only recommend if she really wants to play games. Other wise get her a fitness program.

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piratedrunk
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:07:37 PM
Reply

It really didn't take much. I should come to expect your sort of comment but I can't help but be stricken by how much you seem to clearly not get that the Wii offers such a different experience that it doesn't make sense to lump it in with the PS3 and 360. It just seems so entirely obvious to me that even this article blows my mind in the fact that these things should be a given not something that needs repeating of all things.
It is obvious that the Wii is outselling the other consoles because so much of what it offers brings in an entirely different demographic.. a much much larger demographic. The fact that you can't seem to fathom that just because something is similar doesnt mean it is competition is what blows my mind. The sales of the Wii really do have very little bearing on the sales of a ps3. Its not like the millions of people who bought Wii would have otherwise bought a PS3 or 360 if the wii wasnt there they just simply would not have bought anything.

EDIT: looks like this guys comment was deleted so this might not make as much sense as it would have

Last edited by piratedrunk on 10/22/2009 4:08:39 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:12:59 PM

Yeah, he had to go. We just don't tolerate incessant flaming from kids.

But your post is still relevant. ;)

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piratedrunk
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:15:57 PM

Which is one of the reasons I love this site. Thanks Ben

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Cavan
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:13:55 PM
Reply

ares777
sony has a 10 yr cycle, and has not quite been out 3 yrs, so i duno how anything is won drawn and lost, yes nintendo is a gaming system, but the point of the article is that they are not in competition with each other, there are not many ppl who only own a nintendo, alot of ppl who own a nintendo own a nintendo and either an xbox or a ps3, this is why they are not in competition with each other. For example when a stellar game comes out like MW2 sony arnt in competition with nintendo of this game, they are in comp with MS as they wont the ppl like your selves who own all 3 consoles to buy the sony copy of that game, since the best games in the industry dont come out for the nintendo this is why they arnt in competition with nintendo. Its just apples and pears mate, there just different.

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Cavan
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:15:03 PM
Reply

ah, took me ages to write that reply, and now hes been kicked off lol nevermind.

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Alienange
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:21:39 PM

Don't worry. Some of us did read his comment and approve of your rebutal.

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Alienange
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:19:07 PM
Reply

You want proof that the Wii sucks big nads? Dead Space Extraction. 9300 copies sold in it's first week? I'm sure EA is freakin' thrilled with the Wii.

The Wii is a one trick pony. The people who snapped up Wii Fit will never, that's right, I'm saying NEVER buy another fitness game. Neeeever.

As for any good games the Wii might have, they are few and extremely far between. You're trying to tell me that ND can put out two fantastic Uncharted games in the time that Nintendo can put out ONE Mario game? Have you seen Mario Galaxy 2 trailers? It's the same damn game!

The Wii has great potential. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Pokemon and I could go on, but Nintendo isn't delivering. They know full well that third party devs hate their guts, why would they sit back and leave it to them to make the games?

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piratedrunk
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:29:56 PM

To be fair the main reason for Dead Space Extraction's weak sales is the fact that they slapped the fans in the face by going on rails.. and this is coming from a guy who actually really likes some on rails games. They clearly misinterpreted what Wii gamers would want and they payed for it.

I will agree that good Wii games are too far between though. This christmas season I'm looking forward to several Wii games but it has really been a dry year.

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Hezzron
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:37:08 PM

You can also point at the fact that Dead Space Extraction has had zilch in the way of marketing. Does anyone even realize the game exists?

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Byakko2009
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:02:02 PM

Well, on rails shooter or no, the software Wii has offered this year has been abysmal in terms of sales. Beyond Wii Fit, they haven't had many "hardcore" titles that have achieved the same level of success that Nintendo's titles have garnered. If Dead Space Extraction isn't a good enough example, then you'd have to look at The Conduit, and Madworld. Sure Dead space didn't recieve much in the way of adverts, but the aforementioned titles did.

I think Tetsuya Nomura said it best a long time ago when he was asked about the Wii he said, "When developing for a Nintendo platform, your biggest competitor is Nintendo.". For a console that has attained a record amount of success, the support and software is lacking horribly. To Nintendo's credit though, they've found something that works well for them. But that's just it, beyond their own IPs, it's been a struggle for third parties to prosper as well as Nintendo has.

If any sales numbers should be analyzed or compared, it'd have to be the software - not the hardware - in which case it'd likely prove everyone's points about the Wii. For what it's worth, I have a Wii, and I do play the occasional solid game that comes out. I will be playing Tales of Graces eventually as well.

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Qubex
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:32:28 PM

I have to admit, Dead Space Extraction looks very good on the Wii.

Is it the old adage that if you really know how to make a game and get teh best out of the platform it could be made to look exceptional and defy the critics.

Could a God Of War type game be made for the Wii and blow people's socks off as GoWII did on the Ps2?

Just a thought!

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by Qubex on 10/22/2009 9:33:59 PM

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Jawknee
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:17:32 AM

You buy a Wii for Nintendo's franchises and the Virtual console. Most 3rd party games suck or have better versions on the PS3 and Xbox. I don't mind that it's not HD(although it would be nice). Zelda, Metroid and Mario will always get me to fork out some cash.

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blaqsmyth
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:23:09 PM
Reply

is it me or does that ares777 guy sound like an xbox fanboyish ps3 hater everyone knows the ps3 will rule them all

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HOODGE
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 4:53:18 PM
Reply

I thought this was a Playstation site Ben. I know you own the 360 as well, but in your article you mentioned Gears of War 2 and Forza 3. Ummm we don't need to cater to the 360 weebols at all do we on this site. You know I'm just giving you a hard time.

I still believe that since KZ2, the console war between PS3 and 360 was pretty much over from that point on. Sure the 360 is still up in overall sales (we all know why that is...hmmm replacements anyone), but in terms of measuring gaming performance, massive online games, graphics, 8 core cell processor on PS3 vs 3 core Xenon on 360, it's even kinda crazy to compare those two machines together now.

And with the release of the Killer Uncharted 2, Sony has won the 24hrs of Lemans now in raw gaming power. I know some will say, well ya they still are in competition. I say no. 2 different animals. Let's break it down as cars as an example.

1) PS3 = Ferrari F430
2) 360 = Porsche Boxter
3) Wii = Honda Civic SI

As for PS3 catching the Wii, let's not forget about the 10 yrs lifespan here. PS2 is still a competitor on the marketplace and is the king in total sales in history - 138 million units, and it's reaching it's 10th year. Wii is already talking Wii HD, so that changes the outlook of things drastically.

Enough said..

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okgo
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:04:12 PM

I'm more partial to thinking:

Wii = Honda civic
PS3 = BMW 3 series
360 = Mercedes C class

All 3 are basically small cars but differ in features, performance, price point and target demographics.

As an earlier poster wrote, there are people who can't justify paying extra for the higher priced cars so they just opt for the civic.

But you never really hear anyone talking about how the Civics are creaming BMW and Mercedes for the sales of the small car segment do you?

EDIT: Disclaimer: I own all 3...video game consoles i mean, not the cars :)

Last edited by okgo on 10/22/2009 5:05:45 PM

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bigrailer19
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:37:08 PM

if the wii goes hd thats not going to make the wii stronger! i mean it will make the system better, but wont be a selling point!

the selling point of the wii is the accesibilty and "fun" factor the motion controls give people! the wii is done and will suddenly hit a wall soon regardless of hd, im not afraid to admit it everyone owns one! it has nowhere left to go accept hope that hd may get people using again, but it dont even play dvd, so again its almost insufficient! sounds good though!

btw i havnt even heard of the wii hd, but again im not a fan and i own one stupid mistakes. anyways we'll see what happens!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/22/2009 5:38:51 PM

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CH1N00K
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 8:54:16 AM

I'd describe it more as this:

Wii: Kawasaki KLR 650(motorbike) It will get you there, but it's not super fast, or performance driven..but it will still do what needs to be done.

But if you need a little more room for storage and better performance you look at:

Xbox 360: Ford Explorer. More room, does a little bit of everything and has a history of blowing out a tire or catching on fire...but overall a nice way to get you from point A to Point B.

and finally PS3: Okay I'm stumped, I'm looking for something that has the storage capabilities of a Mack truck, go anywhere abilities of a Hummer and the performance of an F1 race car...Maybe a NASA space shuttle?

Okay that's a little fanboyish..but you guys get my point...lol.

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jerocarson
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:07:51 PM
Reply

Ben i love the way u replied that dude, N4G is been something else lately, it beats my imagination that the west could make humanity over there so pathetic as we in Africa sees it in N4G..

back to topic, i still have the strong feelings
that Sony would win, Honestly i have seen the wii only once over here., but the ps3 and xbox is all over here. Sony has a bigger advantage, cos it can cater for everyone, when the wand, sphere or whateva comes out, their lost causal gamers would begin to have a rethink. softwares will definitely be the deciding factor on who wins..


Last edited by jerocarson on 10/22/2009 5:09:26 PM

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Qubex
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:34:45 PM

We are you writing from if I may ask... South Africa?

Q!

"i am home"

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Gone
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:39:27 PM
Reply

To each is their own, but nobody comes even close to the PS3 in features and games.

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blaineca
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:44:11 PM
Reply

Well now you do know someone who owns a Wii and a PS3. And for the first few years I played the Wii FAR MORE than the PS3. Now that Soul Calibur, Resident Evil, and Street Fighter are out, it's a lot better. Demon's Souls is the icing on the cake. But Uncharted? Come on. What a joke. That's one of the most "casual" games I've ever played. Nothing groundbreaking there but the visuals. What a joke.

The fact is that I still buy more games for my PS2 than I do for my PS3!!!! I really hope the next Persona is on PS3 because quite frankly I'm sick of pulling the PS2 out and it's gonna die some day.

You need to open your mind dude. Nintendo has a lot of great franchises. The only problem is that we only see one or two a year (that's why I have a PS3 as well.) They are in direct competition PLUS they have the new market. When Monster Hunter and DQ come over here it might get a bit crazy (if their marketing department works out). If you want a challenging hardcore game, I suggest you try to max out all of your characters on Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn... that will keep any hardcore gamer busy for a long long time.





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bigrailer19
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 5:51:04 PM

really about uncharted 2 lol, its groudbreaking on every level, in everything it does! from the sound, to the graphics, to the gameplay, everything is nailed, and it is by far one of the best scripts ever writtin, i know ive said that 100x but ill keep repeating it!

no one is saying the wii is a bad machine either! but its not next gen, it isnt even hd, which puts it in a dif. bracket! yea its selling well yea there r a few good games but beyond that it doesnt push the industry, like the ps3 and Uncharted 2 most certainly did and are continuing to do!

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 10/22/2009 5:51:52 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 6:33:51 PM

The fact that you say Uncharted 2 is a "joke" doesn't exactly give me a better picture of Nintendo fans.

And maybe the "greatness" of those franchises are just a TAD outdated compared to what we have now...? Or do you choose to still live in 1995?

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piratedrunk
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 6:44:30 PM

I do still believe Nintendo has great franchises and a decent number of games a hardcore gamer would find appealing but to say uncharted is a joke and casual is downright wrong.
I can't help but wonder how rare it seems to be that I enjoy both consoles so much as a gamer and still see that they are so different? I personally feel there have never been two consoles available in a generation that compliment the other so well as PS3 and Wii. between the 2 I have access to all the games I could possibly want to play.

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blaineca
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 7:25:22 PM

I'm not saying Uncharted is a joke... I'm saying I wouldn't use it to show the difference between casual and hardcore gaming because it is a very mainstream action title aimed more at the casual crowd. People that are wowed by graphics and say things like "it looks like a movie". There are plenty of titles on the Wii that are more for serious gamers than Uncharted is... I would use Demon's Souls or Valkyria Chronicles to show the difference between what you get on the PS3 versus Wii...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 7:43:39 PM

If you really think Uncharted 2 is all about the damn graphics, and if you further think it only caters to casual gamers (when in fact it's basically the exact OPPOSITE), you really have no clue about games or the industry.

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maxpontiac
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:15:23 PM

blaineca -

Although I respect your opinion, I really believe you are completely wrong when it comes to what seperates a AAA PS3 title from a AAA Wii title.

Graphics have more to do with the equation then you are giving credit to. The sheer amount of textures in Uncharted 2 (for example) are at a level a Wii game will never reach. Plus, as Ben wrote in another post, the animations (and voice acting) alone bring about a human element rarely seen in gaming. Additionally, the gameplay is nearly flawless.

The fact is, Uncharted 2 blurs the line of casual/hardcore gaming. Yes, the title is mainstream, but how can you find fault in that? With all the higher difficulties and medal challenges/trophies there for completing, there is plenty hardcore elements in the title. Plus, I have yet to even mention the multiplayer.

Uncharted 2 has revolutionized gaming. It's not perfect, but I challenge you to find a title that accomplishes so much, and pleases casual and hardcore gamers alike.

Good luck.

I hope by hardcore, you don't mean a game that only caters to the "niche" market, for if you are, that's a shame.

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DarthNemesis
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:30:51 PM

Besides Mario,Metroid and Zelda,what great franchises do Nintendo have? Not including all of the Mario spinoffs of course.regardless,no one is buying those games liek they are Wii Fit and the rest of the Wii gimmick titles.I liked Donkey Kong and Star Fox,but Ninty just threw them under the bus time and time again for Mario.It was one of the things that drove me away from them eventually.

As far as U2 being casual.Are you telling me that U2 is in the same category as Wii-Fit?

Here's a tip,a casual game is a game that is easy for none gamers to pick up and play regardless of graphics.So are you saying that U2 should not fully use the tech that it is on? This is exactly the kind of thinking that messed Nintendo up back when they made the 64.For the record,u2 was more of a challenge than any Nintendo game that I have played in my life and I clocked in hours on Wind Waker last generation.

Last edited by DarthNemesis on 10/22/2009 8:36:56 PM

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Hexen
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:09:04 PM

@blaineca

I'd bet you've probably never played Uncharted 2, you only see it's commercial say to yourself "Damn that's some casual sh!t".

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blaineca
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:40:33 PM

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think there's plenty of opportunity for Nintendo to make a game of the year on the Wii. I don't think they will (unless NWMBWii is even better than I'm hoping it will be), but I think it can be done. Graphics matter, but gameplay matters more IMHO. The campaign in Uncharted to me had way too much hand holding and even cut off some action with cut scenes! The boss battles were also a bit lame if you ask me... matter of fact I only really remember running around at the end shooting all the blue stuff as far as boss battles go.

Yes, the technology is great. Yes, the game is tremendous fun. The multiplayer... well I'm not sure yet... after Killzone this feels like going back to Team Fortress II or something but that can be a good thing.

Graphics matter, but gameplay matters more IMHO. I wouldn't put Uncharted at the top of my list of PS3 games... but then again I would put Resident Evil 5 somewhere up there and I know how people wince when they "can't run and shoot."

Still... I'm looking at my PS3 collection and it ain't too big considering it's 2009. Not that my Wii collection of actual quality games is any/much bigger, but to me this grand age of super power machines isn't exactly paying off in spades.

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Jawknee
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:31:51 AM

Nintendo's Wii GOTY will be what ever Zelda they have up their sleeve.

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maxpontiac
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 11:52:23 AM

blaineca -

I believe you answered your own dilema. You stated how disappointed you are in this generation of gaming. To me, it sounds as if you are expecting to much. You also might be at the point in your life in which you are not into gaming like you used to be. I might suggest that you put your CSI kit away when playing a game.

You comment on the lame boss-battles in Uncharted 2. Tell me, when have boss-battles been anything but? In the history of gaming, the boss fights have always been over dramatic. It's always a case of the boss having extra health, more firepower, a number advantage, or sheer size. Defeating them usually requires a pattern recognizing or some type of environmental strategy. Nothing in Uncharted deviates from that formula, why? It works.

Uncharted does hold your hand to an extent, but like I stated earlier, please find me game that offers as much as (Uncharted 2) to the casual and hardcore audience! I hate referencing IGN, but they were 100% correct when they stated that Uncharted 2 is closer to perfection then nearly every title this generation.

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tes37
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 6:01:33 PM
Reply

Sony has more games than I could ever possibly play, so I'm pretty happy with their console.
If Nintendo were in competition with the PS3 and 360, then they would be producing more software and have some of the same multiplatform games. They appear to be content, but they will soon need a new console to stay in the race for gamers' cash.

Last edited by tes37 on 10/22/2009 6:03:23 PM

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DarthNemesis
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:24:07 PM

That's just it,Nintendo never had any competition before Sony came and when they did they gave up on their original market.I bought all of Nintendo's consoles except for the Wii obviously and during the generation of the PSX to now,they were not have as good as Sony's machine.So basically Sony forced Nintendo to seek out a new market and thus you got the Wii.Nintendo never made any technical advances with their consoles previously,but the Wii is just too outdated for me to even enjoy a REAL game on the console.People can support Nintendo all they want,but you can not deny that they sold out because they could not compete with Sony.

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LinTr
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 7:17:49 PM
Reply

This type of thinking is what plagued Nintendo during the Super Disc fiasco (and into "Project Reality" debacle), Sega during the tail end of the Saturn and beyond. It's called "underestimating your opponent." They are all in direct competition, for money. It's never going to "stop". It makes for good drama fodder. Fanning the flames of fandom with "new fad of interactive entertainment the Wii created" statements wont help either. Nintendo has typically outsold console sales with handhelds. They should never be written off. Nintendo seems unwilling or unable to shake the "kiddy" stamp. If they ever return to the mindset they had in the vs. Sega days and improve upon that, things would change immensely.

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Robochic
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:08:38 PM
Reply

I own a PS3 and a Wii, I love both my consoles equally, I make sure both are happy and content and don't get jealous, I may spend a little more on my PS3 but I am on the Wii a fair bit as well.

The reason for the Wii is for Zelda, Crystal Chronicals,ect that I can not get on any other console, I do still see the Wii as a console but it does have a different market just like the PS3 and 360 do it's just for the 2 bigger consoles we see and hear more due to they are rivals and hate eachother with a passion and nintendo sits back and probably has a few chuckles here and there.

Ben I see where you are coming from but I am a hardcore gamer and own a Wii and PS3 so now you can say you do know someone with that combo and plays both pretty much equally ;)

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:21:35 PM

Okay, I accept that. But didn't we sort of confirm that you're not exactly in the majority of women when it comes to gaming in another thread...? ;)

No offense or anything; just know you really ARE the only one who has ever told me you play the Wii and PS3 almost equally and - I'm assuming - that has nothing to do with your son...right?

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piratedrunk
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:49:37 PM

Well I'll add to that very small list of people who play them equally. I'll also add that I am a 25-year-old guy who has been playing games for 20 years and have no kids.

I understand I'm in the minority I really just don't understand why when there really are great games like mario, zelda, crystal chronicles, etc. Just because these franchises have been around a long time doesn't mean the games themselves are any less fun they are constantly improving the formulas and adding to them and they are in my opinion some of the most refined gaming experiences available because of that.

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Jawknee
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:24:01 AM

Well Ben I'm another who enjoys both my PS3 and Wii almost equally. Latelty when taking a break from Uncharted 2 or ICO, I am playing Metroid Prime or any number of my Virtual console games like Majora's Mask. The Wii has enough great exclusives in my opinion to warrant owning a Wii. :)

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Dancemachine55
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:45:38 AM

Mario, Zelda, Metroid, No More Heroes, Res Evil 4 and Virtual Console are the big reasons why I own a Wii, plain and simple. You can't get them anywhere else. Such a shame that Nintendo is relying so heavily on its classic games and classic franchises to cater to hardcore audiences though. But its exclusives are what make it so great!!

Same goes with the PS3. Uncharted 2, Resistence, Motorstorm, Singstar, God of War, Gran Turismo, they're all truly exclusive to the PS3.

Not like Halo, Gears, Left 4 Dead and Mass Effect which are also on PC, but they keep throwing the word "exclusive" round them. Shame I was forced to get one to play with friends, none of them could afford PS3's a year ago.

Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 10/23/2009 2:47:54 AM

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 3:55:26 AM

@Robochic

You are just too cool. Keep on gaming no matter what!

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DarthNemesis
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:19:59 PM
Reply

"When I say the Wii caters to the non-gamers out there, I'm saying it successfully attracts those who never once touched a video game controller before Nintendo's new system. And when I say the other two are for gamers, it's because those who have loved the hobby with a passion for many years are - typically - more drawn to that type of progressive software."

Your absolutely right.I started playing games on the NES and I only have a PS3 now.The Wii does not interest me in the least bit,but my mother and her 50+ year old friends own a Wii and they never play it.My mother has not turned that thing on in months other then when my niece comes over.The Wii does not have any competition because it is the only CASUAL console on the market.

@Robochic: So you play Zelda and Crystal Chronicles all year around on the Wii?What else is there besides Nintendo's first party which is outdated thanks to the technology? I bought Galaxy for my mom's Wii and never touched after i played it the first time -back in Feb.- because it was too outdated and the controller felt like a cheap gimmick.

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JackC8
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 8:42:45 PM
Reply

The Wii is a toy, plain and simple. When Barbie Horse Adventures outsells Dead Space by a 24 - 1 margin...case closed.

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DarthNemesis
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:01:04 PM

I always compare it to the Forman Grill "everybody has one,but nobody uses it".

I Super Mario Bros. 3,Yoshi's Island,Super Metroid,A Link to the Past,StarFox 64 & Donkey Kong's Country 64 will always be in my heart,but Nintendo is not the same as they were back in the day.I just don't see how any long time Nintendo fan can not demand better quality from the company if they started on the NES at age 5 like I did.

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Qubex
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 9:38:44 PM

To some its a great toy though, especially the Wii Mote!

Q!

"i am home"

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eLLeJuss
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 11:06:31 PM
Reply

Lol. wii doesnt even have anything anymore.....

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Qubex
Thursday, October 22, 2009 @ 11:25:48 PM

To some its the greatest invention of their generation... young and old! To others it is a great dust collector that is used as a doorstop.

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by Qubex on 10/22/2009 11:26:19 PM

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furbiesmustdie
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:05:34 AM
Reply

i see it like this...
from a gamer's point of view the wii is the biggest piece of fail since the virtual boy, but from a business point of view it's out selling both the ps3 AND the 360 and for that you have to respect it. MARKETING GENIUS MY FRIENDS.

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King James
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:15:12 AM
Reply

A xbot told me last year, "All you need is a 360 and Wii! Wii60!"

Aside from his hysteria, he had a point. If you want the full gaming experience this gen, You need a PS3/360 and a Wii.

I still plan to get a wii. I need to finish Mario Galaxy, play Twilight Princess, and download some throwback ninty games.

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Jawknee
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:18:21 AM

Twilight Princess is epic.

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Dancemachine55
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:17:17 AM

Wii is very good for all that. Twilight Princess is unreal,, and Mario Galaxy is my favourite 3D platformer this gen.

I got classic Punch Out, Mario Bros 1 and 3, Mario 64, Mario Kart 64 and Donkey Kong Country.

And I would have stuck to PS3 and Wii had all my friends got a PS3 instead of a 360, but this was at a time when the PS3 was struggling to find its feet.

And since most 360 games are also on PC, you're better off going PS3 and Wii and just using them for quality hardcore games (Uncharted 2, Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, God of War 3) and casual party games respectively. (Wii Sports Resort, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii)

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___________
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:27:17 AM
Reply

of coarse the wii,ps3 and 360 are in direct competition with each other.
when parents are going out looking for entertainment for there kids there going to choose between the 3 arent they?
why would they disregard the wii?
if anything that would be there choice because its the cheapest, and is the most "kid friendly"
sure it has some adult games like mad world but no console has more kid games than the wii.

thats why its selling so well, because its viewed as a family console.
you really think parents are going to sit down with the family and have a match of halo or killzone 2?

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Dancemachine55
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:23:18 AM

Very true, but children and families fall under the casual gaming circuit and thats what the Wii targets.

360 and PS3 aim at young to older adults who love shooters, hardcore racers and platformers and play these to be the best in a field or complete certain objectives.

So in that regard, all 3 consoles are not the same. You need to consider what audience the consoles target, and your comment has completely missed the main point.
Only the 360 is in direct competition with PS3 because they are both offering the same hardcore gaming experience with some casual games thrown in for good measure.
The Wii offers a casual experience with some hardcore games thrown in for good measure.

So, your argument is a little off since the example you give is of a parent buying for their 10 year old children. What about the rest of the demographic? Single men or women in their 20's and 30's? Not all gamers are families.

Also consider this, a parent with a 16 year old and an 18 year old is not going to buy them a Wii with Wii Music. She'll either get them a 360 or a PS3 with a shooter and a 2nd controller so they can verse each other.

See the difference there?

Last edited by Dancemachine55 on 10/23/2009 2:30:08 AM

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___________
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 9:23:45 AM

thats what i was saying, just because they cater to different people does not mean there not in direct competition.
and i have never, ever seen a parent buy their 18 year old child a games console.
they would say, you have a job, buy it yourself.
shit, my parents stopped buying me things like that 10 years ago.
which is the way it should be, people are to spoilt these days, they cant appreciate what they have they always want more.

my parents never bought me any games or game consoles, my parents HATED and still hate me playing games every time i come home with a new game i get a ear full.

well actually its quite the opposite, well at least with people i know.
all my mates parents dont let them play violent games, thats why they bought them a wii.
god a friend of mine is 21 and his parents go off at him every time they see him playing a shooter.

hell all my family and friends are massive zelda and mario fans, they only have ps3s or 360s on the side for some other games.
im the only person i know who plays the core games, everyone i know had to pay for there own games and consoles.
but yea i know its the minority, but there still competing with each other, obviously not as much but its still going to be a minute factor.
small, but still there, lurking in the back of your mind.

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 10:03:12 AM

That would be true if the vast majority of gaming spend was made by parents purchasing for children. But since the average age of a gamer is well past that needed to drink alcohol, vote, smoke, drive and have sex, you need to re-evaluate your statements.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 10:26:18 AM

Nothing you say has any relevance whatsoever because this isn't 1985. The average age of a gamer is about 33 years of age.

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___________
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:27:43 AM
Reply

of coarse the wii,ps3 and 360 are in direct competition with each other.
when parents are going out looking for entertainment for there kids there going to choose between the 3 arent they?
why would they disregard the wii?
if anything that would be there choice because its the cheapest, and is the most "kid friendly"
sure it has some adult games like mad world but no console has more kid games than the wii.

thats why its selling so well, because its viewed as a family console.
you really think parents are going to sit down with the family and have a match of halo or killzone 2?

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Dancemachine55
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:11:25 AM
Reply

I am one of the lucky ones to have all 3 consoles, and my PS3 always gets the most use.

I got the Wii to play Sports Resort, Mario and Zelda, they will always be my favourite.

I got the 360 a few months back because all my friends have 360's ($700 bucks was just too much at the time for a PS3) and its the only way to play online with them.

After playing all 3 consoles, this argument is solid, and I think everyone here in Australia realises the Wii is not in competition with Sony or MS. It's in its own field.

All my friends are hardcore gamers like me, hance the 360's in all their houses, but only one of them has a Wii like me, simply for Mario, Zelda and Smash Bros.

The fight will always be between 360 and PS3, because both aim at the same gaming experience and the same targeted audience.

Every grandma, child and their pets own a Wii simply to swing a stick around in sports games once every now and then, and there is nothing wrong with that, I've often had fun parties with it!!

But for us hardcore gamers who have been here for a while, at least we still have Sony and its competition to count on for pushing the technological bar higher and higher, because without it, we'd still be playing games in standard def with a single joystick and 3 buttons.

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vgWacky
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 5:48:29 AM
Reply

Apologies to those who prefer their own delusions over the truth in advance but I'm afraid I'm gonna have to inject some facts into this debate.

Studies on demographics show that there are marked similarities in those who purchase the PS3 and the Wii.

First off, the majority of owners of both consoles are families. Not single people (hardcore gamers). Here are the stats:

Wii
Family: 54%
Single: 46%

PS3
Family: 53%
Single: 47%

So there is only a 1% difference in whether the console is owned by a family or a singleton. Looks like a very similar audience to me...

Furthermore, 54% of Wii owners are in the 12-34 age group, which is pretty much the primary target of the PS3. To be fair though, 67% of PS3 owners are in this demographic. So a lot more PS3 owners are in the 'hardcore' range than for the Wii.

However, when over half of your install base are in the same age group as the PS3's target audience, it's hard to argue that the Wii is targeted at casual gamers only.

Putting statistics aside, the actions of Sony (and MS) contradict your statements. I was particulary surprised with your statement that...

"the PS3 and 360 are here to drive the industry forward in a certain area; in the realm of technology and overall advancement."

while the Wii...

"gives us an alternate interactive experience"

Granted that the PS3 is a much more powerful console in terms of graphics but in terms of moving the industry forward you have to give the Wii its due. The motion controller system was the only real innovating idea of this Gen. So much in fact that Sony and MS are actually COPYING it. What do you think Project natal and Sony's motion control prject are? New ideas?

Finally, let me end with the inspring words of Andrew House, the head of SCEE. Who, when asked whether Sony is encourging Wii users to move in HD gaming, stated that:

"lots of people bought into N64 as their entry level gaming device, and were happy to upgrade to a more powerful machine later in the life cycle when the price point was right for them. I think we’re going to see this later on PS3"

http://www.edge-online.com/features/interview-andrew-house?page=0%2C1

Who are you kidding that Sony aren't targeting the same audience?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 10:29:45 AM

Wow...way to prove absolutely nothing at all. Sony has only said countless times that they aren't around to top Nintendo because they cater to entirely different demographics. If you actually did real research - outside of the biased research fanboys do to fulfill their own delusions - you'd see that the demographic for the Wii is NOT 12 - 34 but actually 6-14, while the PS3 and 360 hold the same target audience at 18-34. Family and single? What does THAT prove? Try the age gap. Or would you rather I just tell you that the average age of a Wii owner is about 12 while the average age of a PS3/360 owner is about 24?

Just don't bother. Nobody is going to believe the Wii is on the same competition level in terms of targeting certain consumers. It's a gadget. It's not even a game system, really; it should be placed in the electronics section at Best Buy along with the iPhones. In no way have I ever considered it to be a true gaming platform as it operates off a gimmick and every last piece of software relies on that gimmick.

It's a cell phone amongst gaming machines.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 10/23/2009 10:33:43 AM

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vgWacky
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:16:56 PM

"Wow...way to prove absolutely nothing at all. Sony has only said countless times that they aren't around to top Nintendo because they cater to entirely different demographics."

Alright, I have this problem where I don't just believe everything I'm told. I tend to look at what people do as opposed to what they say. I know Sony has been saying that they don't consider Wii direct competition (as do MS) but when they do things like launch periphirels that mimick the competitions central concept I do tend to think to myself that perhaps they're not telling me the whole truth.

"If you actually did real research - outside of the biased research fanboys do to fulfill their own delusions - you'd see that the demographic for the Wii is NOT 12 - 34 but actually 6-14, while the PS3 and 360 hold the same target audience at 18-34."

Yes I hate those fanboys and their biased researching. Damn them and their statistics to Hades!

Anyway, I don't recall saying that the target dem for the Wii was the 12 - 34 age group only.
I am aware that the Wii is targeted to ALL age groups including the 12 - 34s. And the apparent fact that over half their install bass is in that age group supports my assertion.

"Family and single? What does THAT prove? Try the age gap. Or would you rather I just tell you that the average age of a Wii owner is about 12 while the average age of a PS3/360 owner is about 24?"

According to a study by Japanese research firm Net Asia, the average age of Wii owners (at least in Japan) is 32. They interviewed 800 people aged between 10 and 40. But then again maybe Net Asia are Nintendo fanboys? Hmm need to do more reasearch on that. Anyone speak Japanese? Here's the link: http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2009/05/25/net_asia_wii_ps3_survey/

"Just don't bother. Nobody is going to believe the Wii is on the same competition level in terms of targeting certain consumers. It's a gadget. It's not even a game system, really; it should be placed in the electronics section at Best Buy along with the iPhones. In no way have I ever considered it to be a true gaming platform as it operates off a gimmick and every last piece of software relies on that gimmick."

Ok, you're peeved. I have to admit my tone was smug in the previous post (maybe a bit right now?). I didn't mean to come across as arrogant or to start a flame war.

Btw, I own a PS3 and a Wii. I like Nintendo, but I'm a bigger fan of Sony products (Vaio, Bravia and soon to come Pspgo). But I do recognise the faults in the company and ALSO the fact that they are in a 3 horse race. And although I believe that the PS3 is the best console on the market that doesn't mean it will beat the competition (in sales) and I won't be too upset if they end up in 2nd or 3rd. As long as Sony feel they can turn a good profit from the PS division they'll carry on making consoles. And if they're good I'll buy them.

"It's a cell phone amongst gaming machines."

If anyone is coming across as a fanboy right now, it's you. Not that I think you are, it's just that you seem overly upset.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:30:19 PM

Now I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make. From what I can tell, you're backtracking on your previous statistics and trying to say something else.

And I'm sorry, but the Wii is not a video game system as far as I'm concerned. It's just too far removed from the progression of the gaming industry and because I cannot in any way compare the software between the Wii and PS3/360, I will not change my opinion. The Wii is, in fact, a gadget. What we will see in terms of progression in the industry of video games will never be seen on the Wii.

As for the motion sensing, you're right; that's just Sony and Microsoft trying to get a larger slice of the casual pie. But because they're not CHANGING their focus but merely ADDING to the focus, this is no way changes the facts at hand, as far as I'm concerned.

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vgWacky
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:51:32 PM

"Now I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make."

That the Wii is a competitor for the PS3. I'm a bit suprised we lost you on that point...

"From what I can tell, you're backtracking on your previous statistics and trying to say something else."

I think it's quite disingenuous of you to accuse me of backtracking but not explain where I supposedly changed tact. Would you care to elaborate?

"And I'm sorry, but the Wii is not a video game system as far as I'm concerned. It's just too far removed from the progression of the gaming industry and because I cannot in any way compare the software between the Wii and PS3/360, I will not change my opinion. The Wii is, in fact, a gadget."

I was never trying to get you to change your opinion. I am simply presenting the other side of the arguement. But it seems that my attempts are futile.

"What we will see in terms of progression in the industry of video games will never be seen on the Wii."

"As for the motion sensing, you're right; that's just Sony and Microsoft trying to get a larger slice of the casual pie."

So on one hand you think that the Wii will not provide avenues for progression/innovation and on the other you're acknowledging that competitors have copied it's ideas? I think you're contradicting yourself here.

"But because they're not CHANGING their focus but merely ADDING to the focus, this is no way changes the facts at hand, as far as I'm concerned."

And what facts are those? By developing products for the same market and then encouraging software developers to support the new hardware Sony and MS do, imo, believe that there are long term benefits in motion controllers. Sounds like the industry is changing.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 8:34:24 PM

Yeah, you're done. You're just talking in circles and haven't really proved anything, for your side of the argument or anything else. The fact that you think Sony and Microsoft are going for the "same market" as Nintendo only proves again just how clueless you are on this subject. Like I said, PLEASE do some research before trying to insist that when Sony says very plainly, "we don't have anything to do with Nintendo's audience," they like, don't mean it, or something.

You really don't have anything else to say, apparently, so please stop. If you can't figure out the very different demographics targeted between Uncharted 2 and Wii Resort, than that's not my problem.

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David Macphail
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 5:57:23 AM
Reply

OK, first of all, the Wii IS competing dirctly with the PS3/360 because they are all games consoles......i'd have thought that would be the most obvious thing ever. Saying one games console is not competing with the other is the equivalent of saying one supermarket is not competing with another, that's just retarded.

Secondly, this console generation HAS become a two - horse race because i think it's clear that after the year's head start, more price cuts than exclusive games and.....oh yeah, no exclusive games the Xbox 360 has already lost.

This generation is down to two and once again it's Nintendo VS Sony.........Microsoft's console is merely an afterthought now.

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Wage SLAVES
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 7:01:12 AM

No its more like comparing a super market to a quickie mart that depends on Big Gulps for income. If your thought process is correct then the Ps2 is dominating while barely selling.

Ps2 vs Wii (Non-next gen) Ps3 vs 360 (Next-Gen blood bath) is more like it.

Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 10/23/2009 7:01:44 AM

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Jawknee
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 9:54:32 AM

Hahaha great analogy wage.

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 10:12:17 AM

David, You're wrong, and her's why. The gaming market has two distinct segments based on technology. High Definition and standard definition. Wii is not in the HD market at all.

It's like saying that a Kia Rio and a Mercedes SLK are direct competitors. Rio can accomplish the same basic tasks that the SLK can, but the Rio will never be an SLK. The SLK can accomplish everything that the Rio can, and lots more. They're both cars, but does that make then direct competitors? No.

You and a lot of people are missing something basic here. The gaming market has grown far beyond the point where games are games are games. The market is segmented by technology, economics and demographics. Young and old gamers, hardcore and casual gamers, affluent and cost conscious gamers, HD and SD gamers, FPS gamers and RPG gamers, and so on and so forth. If you map the target markets served by the Wii against the PS3 or 360, there is some overlap, but not nearly enough to claim that they are in direct competition.

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David Macphail
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:03:40 PM

If we're judging this generation by technology alone then it's a no - contest and the PS3 is the only next - gen games console on the market.

Look at the hardware differences between the PS3 and the Xbox 360. The 360 is barely any closer to the PS3's technology than the Wii is. Also, who mentioned SD vs HD??? Every gamer knows (Or at least should know) that the Xbox 360 can NOT do native 1080p high definition. So by your logic the PS3 is the only HD console around.

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:40:03 PM

The 360 can do native 1080p. The inclusion of the HDMI port allows 1080p output. The vieo hardware is capable of generating a 1080p signal, and depending on the complexity of the graphics, the 360 is definitely able to push 1080p. That said, the PS3 is more capable of keeping up with the processing demands of rendering 60 2Mpixel images a second than the 360 is. But it's factually incorrect to say that the 360 cannot do 1080p.

As for it not being HD, oh come on, did I say that it had to be 1080p to be HD? HD is universally accepted to include 720p, 1080i and 1080p. The 360 and PS3 are both capable of those resolutions and framerates. The Wii is not. You're sounding foolish here. This console generation was about High Definition from the start, I don't think that you'll find any more than a few Nintendo die-hards who believe otherwise. Some might say it's also about online multi-player action. But since XBL was already on the original Xbox, and PS2 did do multi-player online, the most that could be said with respect to this generation and online is that it's about maturing services.

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David Macphail
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 6:26:41 PM

Perhaps i should clarify my statement on Xbox 360 games in non - HD.

What i meant was there are no (NONE!) retail Xbox 360 games that can do native 1080p. HDMI port or not, HD - ready TV or not. The simple fact of the matter is that retail 360 games are limited to the DVD storage and DVD's can NOT do NATIVE 1080p. Now who's sounding foolish?

There is at least one game that's available for download on the XBL Marketplace that's 1080p because obviously, games stored online are not limited to the DVD format. Also Microsoft have a new 1080p streaming service for TV shows and movies planned but NOT for games.

The simple fact of the matter is ANY PS3 game is CAPABLE of being played in native 1080p high definition (Most of them don't, something to do with the framerate) however all the big retail 360 games such as Halo, Gears Of War, Forza and Fable are not and will NEVER be able to be enjoyed in native high definiton - that's a fact. Perhaps if Microsoft decide to allow gamers to download Fable 3 from the XBLM then you'll get a true high - definition gaming experience but until then you'll have to settle for an upscaled performance from ANY Xbox 360 game that's either been released or will be released this generation.

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 9:48:12 PM

David,

Most 360 and PS3 games render at 720p, or about 1Mpixel per frame. There are several resolution options on the PS3 that are round about the same resolution that the PS3's built in, hardware scaling unit can scale to 1080i and 1080p output, but the game still renders at whatever the original target resolution was. The 360 is more or less the same, although the 360 has a better hardware scaler allowing 360 games to render to nearly any resolution and still output a signal that is scaled to whatever HD resolution you like.

However in both cases the game is always rendering to it's original target resolution. Some games, such as Wipeout dynamically reduce the resolution they render at in order to maintain framerates, with the resolution dropping and then rising as workload varies. MW2 for example runs at a resolution that might be best described as 600p, in other words better than 480p, but not HD. There are several reasons for this, one of which is the desire to lock 60 frames per second, and the other (on the 360) is the free full screen anti-aliasing that is 'free' to the programmer only up to certain resolutions (coincidentally approximately 600p). At higher resolutions the programmer has to implement workarounds to perform anti-aliasing on the screen using overlapping tiles which has a performance penalty.

The PS3 does have some games running at 1080p, and some coming soon that will, GT5 for example. You're right about there being very few 1080p games around, but that's not a function of the size of a DVD, it's a function of the amount of effects that programmers try to use in their game.

The simple fact of the matter is that it's not correct to say that any PS3 game can render at 1080p. The game will render at the target resolution it's programmed for. If you play a 720p game on a 1080p screen your TV will upscale the image to fill the screen even if the PS3 does not.

Lastly, Microsoft can call their TV service whatever they like, but sending a 1080p signal to a TV does not say anything about the quality of the image being sent. I can take a 480x270 image and upscale it to 1080p and send that to a 1080p screen, does that mean you're watching a full HD 1080p source? No. In order to fit an HD source into a reasonable bitrate for download you have to compress the living snot out of it. Full 1080p is 6 times the resolution compared to a DVD at 480p. So somehow you have to get 6 times the data? But most supposedly HD movies or TV for download are in files that are maybe 5-6GB in size. A BluRay is 50GB, a DVD is 9GB. Can you imagine how much detail is lost in the compression of the video and sound? You end up with pixelation in fast moving images, shallow color depth and lots of other compression artifacts. Basically you can't take a BluRay quality movie and compress it down into a file that's smaller than a DVD and retain the quality of the BluRay. You'll be lucky to match DVD quality. However when it's played back, the images is sent as a 1080p signal. So, does it still qualify as HD? Not in my book.

Last edited by Highlander on 10/23/2009 9:54:53 PM

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David Macphail
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 8:07:29 AM

It's funny you bringing up the upscaling qualities of both consoles........because that is exactly the DIFFERENCE between NATIVE high - definition and an upsclaed resolution.

ANY PS3 game CAN do 1080p if the developers choose to go down that route. That's a fact. One of the many advantages of swapping DVD's for Blu - Ray discs.

However it's ultimately up to the developers whether they want to do it or not. 360 devs however, do not have this option. You can go back to re - iterating your points about upscaling and what - not but the simple fact is there is not a single retail Xbox 360 that can output in native 1080p. That's the diffeence between the consoles when it comes to TRUE HD.

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Fane1024
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 2:49:27 PM

@ David
As Highlander said, a game rendering at HD resolutions has very little (or nothing) to do with the storage limitations of DVD vs. BD. Pre-rendered video (like a movie or FMV cutscene), yes; actively rendered video (like gameplay), no. Gameplay is limited by the processing power and RAM of the system.

Sure, with a smaller storage medium, you have more limited assets (models, textures, etc.), but it doesn't really affect the ability to render an HD image.

I always use Warhawk as an example. Incognito fit ALL of Warhawk into a c. 800 MB file, which is a little larger than a CD and 1/10 the size of a DVD-9. It was heavily compressed, admittedly, but its ability to render in (I think) 720p was not hindered by its small storage footprint.

Oh, and I think Def Jam: Icon and a few other 360 games DO render in 1080p. At least, that's what I've heard.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 10/24/2009 2:52:33 PM

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David Macphail
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 3:57:48 PM

There isn't a single Xbox 360 retail game that renders in native 1080p. However you're free to ask Microsoft themselves if you want confirmation.

There is at least one XBLM game for download that can do 1080p but obviously downloadable games can be stored in whatever kind of file format they like.

By your logic, upscaling a DVD movie is true high definition.

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Highlander
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 11:54:17 PM

David,

You're not getting this. Being a 1080p game has nothing to do with whether the game comes on DVD, a CD or a BluRay. A game is 1080p if it renders at a target resolution of 1080p. Nothing else matters. Upscaling a 720p or 1080i game (or a game rendered at a sub-720p resolution) does not make it a 1080p game. 720p, 1080i and 1080p are all HD resolutions. Not every game can render at 1080p it depends on how much work the graphics engine is already doing to build each frame, and what the desired frame rate is. The 360 is just as capable as the PS3 is of rendering a game in 1080p, as long as the developer makes the decision to sacrifice something to achieve the resolution.

You're just not getting this, and I think it's because you think that somehow you have to defend the PS3 here. That's not the case at all, the PS3 requires no defense. The Cell processor supplements the RSX allowing developers to achieve 1080p in games. The Xbox360 is technically capable of delivering a 1080p game by rendering at that resolution, not simply upscaling. However, the workload of doing so is very high, so the developer must carefully choose what they want to do, complex effects or resolution.

I'm not going to reply again on this topic because I think you will ignore the facts again. But, just in case, I will state it clearly again. There is no technical reason why the Xbox360 could not render a game at 1080p. The Elite model and any other 360 with an HDMI port can send a 1080p signal to an HDTV, if a game can render at that resolution. The scaling hardware in the 360 is also user configurable to scale games and other content to 1080p from whatever their native resolution is.

The PS3 can and does render some games at 1080p, not all games on PS3 are at 1080p, most PS3 games render at 720p and are upsscaled to 1080p. The upscaler in the PS3 is not user configurable. The PS3's scaler has to be used by the developer. If a developer has not enabled 1080p output in a game on the PS3, the PS3 will output in whatever the game is designed to run at, whether that's 720p or 1080i. The TV/monitor then upscales the resolution to fill the screen. The resolution a game renders at has nothing to do with the storage medium. As an example, Wipeout HD runs at 1080p, and is a download game, it would fit on a single layer DVD, and yet it runs at 1080p.

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stone1979
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 7:43:19 AM
Reply

The guys at Nintendo are geniuses. Ask Sony and Microsoft if they are competing with the Wii and see what they say. Of course you'll get some of the smug responses that you are comparing apples to oranges, but you know deep down how badly Sony and Microsoft want a piece of that casual pie.

Also, it seems kind of strange to me that people write off children as casual gamers. Nintendo is doing some big time branding here. The first console that enters the hands of a bright eyed child makes a big impression. While most people talk about nintendo when they were a child, I fondly remember Sega because that was the first system I had and played (other than C64). So when the Genesis and SNES came out, there wasn't even an option, I got the Genesis. Anyway I've moved on since then and do agree that the PS3 is the better system for hardcore gamers, but the important point to remember is that Nintendo has just branded their image into millions of kids. So if they create systems that grow with these kids, they can in theory take a large share of the hardcore gamer marketplace over the next few generations, while basking in the millions they are currently making.

Remember all of us were "Casual Gamers" at one point, before we started calling ourselves hardcore. The Adult and Casual markets are different beasts, but the true test will be the system that converges the two markets. While I love sony, they should be careful and mindful of the children's market, these are the future of the gaming world and their loyalties aren't written yet.

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CH1N00K
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 9:19:59 AM

I agree with you, but then I don't. Yes Nintendo is appealing to kids and getting the branding in their mind as their first system. But most of these kids grow out of a Nintendo phase and go for something a little more substantial as they get older. (EG. Xbox, Playstation) But, these kids will someday have kids, and when they go to get that first system for their children, what do you think they'll buy? Most Xbox and PS titles are too "mature" and complicated for a young child to play..so it's back to nintendo again with easy to use motion controls, it develops motor skills and eye hand coordination while adding simple entertainment.

Since I don't see the world population getting smaller,and children are being born everyday, Nintendo is carving out for themselves a nice little Niche market that never goes away as the "gateway" console.

Nintendo has never really made a huge effort to grow with their audience. They've always been happy to appeal to the younger audience. The Wii is changing a bit while trying to appeal new audience with the Wii fit and sports resort titles, but the Majority of adults that purchase a Wii for those titles aren't necessarily too interested in what MS and Sony have to offer. (notice I said Majority, not all, just in case some of you "hardcore" Wii gamers are upset)

While Sony and MS battle it out to get people to play their games and sell the most now, Nintendo seems more content on creating a memory and a feeling to ensure they have a future later. But that could all change when the other two bring in simple casual gaming onto their platforms with motion controls.






Last edited by CH1N00K on 10/23/2009 9:21:29 AM

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 10:14:51 AM

@Ch1nook
I agree 100% with your point about younger gamers growing up and moving to PS3/360, and then repurchasing Nintendo like games/consoles for their own children. However in contrast to the 360, Sony goes out of their way to ensure that the PS3 library features a wide range of titles suitable for all, and young teens. PS3 has a wider market appeal than simply the hardcore HD gaming crowd.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 10:31:56 AM

Uh, plenty of kids called themselves "hardcore" gamers back in the day. In fact, it's the casual gamers that are new. Only in the early days of gaming did someone play video games who was really INTO them. Girls and adults passing by the arcade very rarely just dropped in to play a game, and they certainly didn't go out of their way to purchase the Atari or NES.

ALL gamers were "hardcore" back then. It was their primary hobby. Games like Guitar Hero didn't exist; there was no such thing as a "casual" gamer; someone who comes home from work and plays a half-hour of something and goes to bed. They were all 10-year-old boys and because of that, it was an extremely niche market for a while.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 10:47:54 AM
Reply

I just think it's REALLY funny how quick the Nintendo fans are to defend a system that essentially hasn't released a game worth talking about in a very long time.

I always knew that system never needed software - just the gimmick - to sell, but it's having a bizarre effect on the Ninty fan crowd. It's like they KNOW it doesn't have any REAL games that can compete with what's on other consoles, and yet, they say it's the same thing. Yeah, the only other example I need is that every single gaming system on the planet requires software to sell, while the Wii...

Does not. You know, that proves it all right there.

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Highlander
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 11:30:50 AM

Now Ben, you're forgetting, there's Wii Motion Plus!

An all new (that'll be right...) Wii Motion plus a dime store oxygen sensor for your finger. The Wii can now monitor your health as you play a game....what's next, the console shuts down when your pulse races too much?

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piratedrunk
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 11:40:55 AM

well to be fair the Wii sells plenty of software.. just not the kind you like.

Even as a fan of the system I will agree that they are very slow on selling the software I like as well. But that is why I have all 3 systems..

see I don't feel it neccessary to buy a new game every month but between all 3 I could find something I enjoy every month of the year if I were so inclined.. with the wii having the fewest per year if you don't count xbox exclusives that actually appeal to me.
but the wii exclusives that do appeal to me like the upcoming new super mario brothers wii or crystal bearers.. those games make it worth having.. and the other games that have come out that appeal to me like galaxy, mario kart wii, tales of symphonia, rune factory, metroid prime trilogy.. those are games I pick up and play quite frequently throughout the year. In fact I tend to get more replayability out of the Wii games I do buy than all of my ps3 games. So while I play my ps3 slightly more often I tend to also have to purchase more games for it because they have more of a tendency to grow stale on me as opposed to wii games.. this isn't a bad thing I like playing new shiny things.. but it is different.. which is the point.

See I definitely can see why the wii doesn't appeal to you but I also heavily disagree with your "gimmick" claim as to me.. a gamer who plays daily.. it is nothing less than a console that deserves my time.. I don't feel it competes with the ps3 because as mentioned it is a very different beast.. but just because it is not an HD gaming system does not mean it is not a gaming system. And just because it has motion controls does not mean it only uses motion controls. Your claim that "every last peice of software relies on that gimmick" is wrong. I own several games that either do not use or have the option of not using motion controll at all.. and they are still good fun games without it. Sure that means they could have been done on other systems.. but they weren't because sometimes developers see the system as a chance to make a game with a smaller budget they otherwise might not have been able to make while still offering something for a new huge list of potential customers.

Sorry this turned into a rant but I definitely feel that even though the wii can't compete graphically to the ps3 and 360 there are definitely games on it that are far better than the majority of ps3 and 360 games out there.. they are few and far between yes but like I said.. that is why I own all the systems. I get to enjoy it all.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:31:24 PM

No, it doesn't just have software I don't like. It simply doesn't have much in the way of "AAA" software and 2009 is basically barren. And of the decent games it does have, they're basically all identical in my eyes because they all require the same gimmick. There's just nothing different about them.

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piratedrunk
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:42:44 PM

I disagree about all the good games being identical but my comment about the software you don't like was purely about sales.. all I was saying was there are a few games that sell extremely well on the system so it is not only the hardware that is making them money.

That said those games tend to be ones I don't particularly like either with the exceptions of wii sports resort which has proven to be a lot of fun and mario kart wii.

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Jawknee
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 6:41:17 PM

"Nintendo fans are to defend a system that essentially hasn't released a game worth talking about in a very long time."

That is a good point. The last game I bought for it was Metroid Prime Trilogy. That's recent but it's not really new.

I would like to see more from Nintendo. Especially more Zelda. The hand helds are good, but another console Zelda over due.

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kanjirume
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:14:28 PM
Reply

The problem with the "Console Wars" is the so called "Hardcore gamer" as they lack objectivity and sophistication.

I'm not a hardcore gamer and neither are you unless you have a spec'd out PC that is dedicated to gaming. Otherwise your just a guy (or gal) that loves the gaming experience that console provides. Nothing wrong with that.

All the consoles have their merits and no one is better than the other (XBOX build quality an exception) it just comes down to subjectivity. If you want HD gaming go with a PS3 or XBOX. If you want family play and old school fun go with a Wii.

Hardcore gamers (in general) are just fanboys and you know how annoying they are.

Cheers.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:30:35 PM

You don't need a gaming PC to be "hardcore." I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. Talk about a lack of software...

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piratedrunk
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 12:46:14 PM

I agree with your subjectivity comment but pc gaming really is another thing altogether. That is less of a hardcore gamers hobby and more of a technophile/graphics whore kind of thing.

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Scarecrow
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:16:29 PM
Reply

Nintendo said it once: "we're not here to compete with the ps3 and that other console, we're the alternative to the other two."

Meaning that the Wii is more of sidekick and not the hero.

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fluffer nutter
Monday, October 26, 2009 @ 12:19:16 AM

A sidekick is a compliment or supplement, rather, to a hero. Not an alternative. ;)

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junglemunquay
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:25:45 PM
Reply

You want proof the Wii is casual?? Go to Google & try "pub wii" then try "pub ps3"!!

They have Wii nights at the pub instead of karaoke!!

NB: I searched using UK Google

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piratedrunk
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 1:32:52 PM

Not sure why you think that is proof.. I have been to pubs with ps3 rockband and guitar hero nights

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junglemunquay
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 2:49:59 PM
Reply

And they've been easily Google'd?? Wish I'd known...

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Casual Friday
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 3:16:08 PM
Reply

Some background before I get to my comments……

I'm in my mid 30’s, married with 2 kids. I have frequented PSX Extreme for about a year but this is my first post. Right now I only own a Wii, but I have considered ‘upgrading’ to a PS3 at some point. Here are my comments……

According to Nielson (May of 09) only about 33% of US households had HDTV’s. Also according to Nielson (2008 – I know it’s old but it is the latest I could find) only about 70% of PS3’s were connected to an HDTV. Although that rate is higher than both the 360 (65%) and the Wii (60% - who knows why?) that still means that 30% of the of Sony’s console sales (and higher than that of Microsoft’s) come from a demographic that is not cutting edge graphically (i.e. Nintendo’s market). The fact that the PS3 and the 360 still ship with the same composite cables that the Wii does is ridiculous for a console that boasts about it graphics. They can get away with it because for a good portion of their customers this will be all they will ever use. Another stat that would tend to prove that there are quite a few PS3 owners in the Wii’s market is that NPD (Oct. 2009) found that 35% of PS3’s have never been used to play Blu Ray movie. These don’t sound very much like the hardcore crowd graphics loving crowd.

That is why I can’t agree with the blanket statements about Sony not being in any competition with Nintendo. I have no problem agreeing that Sony leans towards that hardcore while Nintendo leans towards the casual, that much is obvious. But I cannot ignore the large group somewhere in the middle where they overlap. And from all available evidence the Wii is dominating that group. How many PS2’s were sold to non ‘hardcore’ gamers? That number has to be in the tens of millions. This generation they seem to be buying Wii’s instead. I think that in order to say that the PS3 is not in competition with the Wii you would have to say that Sony has decided to narrow their base to only the ‘hardcore’ and abandon a good portion of their previous customers.

What’s more interesting is that from the data mentioned above Sony has a smaller presence in the casual market than Microsoft does. So in that case it would mean that in order to help the PS3 to overtake the 360 Sony needs to catch up where they are behind in the so called ‘Wii’s demographic’.

Again, I am not trying to be antagonistic, just honest with my opinion. I know my perspective is not hardcore. I don’t really enjoy a lot of ‘Mature’ (blood, sex, gore) games which seem to be the type that are most applauded on the PS3/360. I stated at the beginning that I would consider getting a PS3 at some point but for me it would most likely be as a Blu Ray player that I would get a few great games for (GT5 is right up my alley). Hope I made some sense, maybe I might start posting off and on to give a more ‘Casual’ perspective.

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Casual Friday
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 3:37:11 PM

sorry about the wierd text issues, I cut and pasted my comments from Word and somehow it screwed up alot of punctuation.

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vgWacky
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 3:43:43 PM

Hey don't worry. It was a good post. =)

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 8:30:39 PM

Hmm...not sure why your text went all screwy. But yes, it was a fine post and you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

But in one way, you're almost proving my point. You admit to being a casual gamer and not owning a PlayStation 3, which is exactly what I've been saying. The point is that gamers - gamers, gamers (no offense) - really don't consider the Wii very often for any reason. It's just not something they're interested in, as it feels like age-old technology laced with a gimmick and nothing more.

As some of us have said, we just don't know any avid gamers who have any interest at all in the Wii, while on the flip side, most everyone we know who owns a Wii is kinda like you...they only own that one system and it's either for the family or just because they found it "neat" when it first came out. Many don't even consider it to be a "video game," in my experience.

At this point, there is just too large of a gap in experiences between what you get on the PS3/360 and what you get on the Wii for me to agree that all three are in the same boat.

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Deleted User [Administrator]
Sunday, October 25, 2009 @ 5:32:19 AM

I think Ben the diffrence is summed up easily as the Wii is a broad audience console that has a small measure of catering towards the hardcore market while Sony and to a lesser extent Microsoft are companies who are hardcore based but trying to branch out into the casual. This all changes next year... and to different effect. Can Sony capitalize on it's own Wiimote or will the idea of no controller appeal to the masses on a larger scale. Me personally I'd pack in a belly dancing lesson with Natal... I think that would do well to sell to both men and women for different reasons ;-)

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Dingodial
Friday, October 23, 2009 @ 6:35:26 PM
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I'm tired of all this Wii bs! PS3 will outlive all the other consoles. PERIOD.

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Deleted User
Sunday, October 25, 2009 @ 5:25:38 AM

not if Robbie has anything to say to it... 360 will be there 10 years and one day if necessary... I thought that was an amusing quote, but it shows that Microsoft is in it for the long haul with Sony

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BigBoss4ever
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 1:12:18 AM
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well said Ben, Wii is not a factor. It is really between PS3 and 360, and obviously, PS3 will rule based on the games released as MGS4, LBP, inFamous, U2, Demon's Souls, and not to mention the mind blowing GOW3, FF13, v13, The Last Guardian... in no way the 360 is even close to this collective bunche -- the gap will be further.

If only they released all the 360 exclusive JRPGs on PS3 ( ie. Lost Odyssey, IU, Last Remnant, Blue Dragon, Star Ocean 4, Magna Carter II), I would not have bought the 360 in the first place. Oh, well, i think I have made my point.

Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 10/24/2009 1:15:03 AM

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Deleted User
Sunday, October 25, 2009 @ 5:24:30 AM

Star Ocean 4: Internation Ed. is comming... the game is pretty good though I'm stuck at a massively hard boss... got to grind and it's hard to grind when you have Prototype sitting right next to it

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Dan
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 4:54:32 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Wii kinda helped in the sales of PS3s and XBoxes.

How, u ask?
Well from personal experience, some of my friends were never gamers and after trying the Wii they liked it and started playing some of its games (Mostly Wii Sports).

But later, some of them started to think about the possibility of owning a PS3 or an XBox, just because they have better graphics.

They did not buy one yet (its just because of the lack of funding lol :D), but I'm pretty sure other people thought the same thing and already bought a next-gen console.

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Deleted User
Sunday, October 25, 2009 @ 5:23:11 AM

Peter Moore talked about that... his hope was that the Wii would be a gateway into more conventional gaming

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tes37
Saturday, October 24, 2009 @ 7:50:03 PM
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I remember getting a dvd that advertised the Wii with a Playstation console purchase, Sony must not be too worried about the Wii

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Robochic
Sunday, October 25, 2009 @ 11:52:55 AM
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@ Ben yep I think we did say something in another thread about how weird it is that I play and not alot of other females do which is a shame really is.
I play the Wii more than my son does he's not really into it he prefers playing on the PS3 katamari and disney cars he does like bowling but tells me hes bored after 10 mins LOL.

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blaineca
Monday, May 31, 2010 @ 2:45:24 PM
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"As I predicted a long time ago, the Wii would blast off quick but the software would begin to lag and if you haven't noticed, it seems almost impossible that a Wii game will ever compete for Game of the Year in 2009 or in the future."

*cough*SMG2*cough*

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