Gearbox's Pitchford On Valve: An "Underlying Sleaziness"

Valve Software has managed to make an enemy out of many PlayStation 3 owners over the past few years, and for good reason. We recently heard that Sony offered an olive branch by saying they would be willing to help Valve with any PS3 projects, but we're not yet certain if Valve will respond.

In such a situation, it's rare that other developers or industry insiders would voice their opinions on the matter, but Gearbox Software CEO Randy Pitchford has never been one to censor his bold statements for the benefit of the press. Pitchford doesn't appear to be the biggest fan of Valve and now, according to a recent 1Up report citing various sources including ScrawlFX and the Official PlayStation Magazine, he has called Valve's stance on the PS3, "childish." On the flip side, Pitchford finds Sony's console to be "really cool." Here's what Pitchford had to say to OPM:

"I noticed something on the net not too long ago. Doug Lombardi (Valve's VP Marketing) had to take a swipe at the PS3 again, and I thought it was foolish. I read it the same way I read fanboys. Like there's a guy who brought the Sony platform and he's a Sony guy, so he decides he's going to spend a certain percentage of his time bashing Microsoft. And there's a guy on Microsoft doing the same thing. Those guys are childish and narrow-minded, it's the same kind of thing."

In the past, Valve has gotten a lot of heat for not delivering their best efforts to PS3 owners. The Orange Box is the most infamous example; Valve designed it for the Xbox 360 and PC and then simply handed it off to EA so they could handle a PS3 port. But since then, Valve has simply refused to acknowledge the PS3 and their Left 4 Dead titles aren't seeing the light of day on the PS3. This past week, things flared up again when L4D project lead Chet Faliszek said the 360 community was "head and shoulders above the PS3." It was his belief that the PSN simply isn't a good enough community for a game like L4D, although 29 million PSN accounts might say otherwise.

Furthermore, this isn't the first time Pitchford has tossed a little jab in Valve's direction. He was quoted as saying Valve "thinks their own stuff is the only stuff that matters, to the point where they have their own distribution platform." Finished Pitchford:

"It's hard to accept that genuinely, because I know the business, I know you guys make half the money on the PS3 version because you've got other fingers in the pie, and other developers getting a cut. It benefits you if nobody buys that, and only buys the PC version, because you make the most money. There's this underlying sleaziness."

Ooooh. Clearly, we're not the only ones who think the Valve guys are far too full of themselves.

11/10/2009 9:02:26 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (88 posts)

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convergecrew
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 9:52:22 PM
Reply

Oh well, doesnt really matter. The only game from Valve I enjoyed was Portal anyway.

0 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:08:05 PM
Reply

I like this guy.

8 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:13:25 PM
Reply

It's nice to know the gamers aren't the only ones upset with these childish types. After all this I don't want my PS3 tarnished with their games anyhow. They can't even make a new engine in all these years, lazy fackers.

22 up, 3 down

tes37
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:19:13 PM

I wouldn't let them touch my ps3 either. I will, however, continue to let 'valve' regulate my toilet water. They seem to be good at keeping the crap flowing.

19 up, 2 down

bxshotboi
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:15:18 PM
Reply

he gets a thumbs up because he is right. i even agree with the whole fanboy war that some people have against other systems. i love my ps3 and dislike the 360 for the simple reason i had it not even a whole week before it got the e74 error but i would never break a 360 for the fun of it. valve really needs to take matter into their own hands and step their game up cuz we all know they would make more money if they make more ps3 version games.. and by the way how do they expect to make so much from a system that is getting modded left and right??????

1 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 12:00:16 PM

Maybe you should look at the sales numbers eh? Their fan base is strongly 360/PC sided where as PS3 owners are not nearly supportive of their efforts. What's the point of waisting money on something that will delay release of a game or be released later than needed. I see it's OK for Naughty Dog to have a close relationship with Sony, but Valve can't have one with Microsoft? Maybe if EA hadn't dropped the ball on Orange Box and PS3 owners would have bought more than a couple hundred thousand copies we'd see a more positive Valve towards the PS3.

0 up, 5 down

Fane1024
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 4:28:37 PM

@ Cueil

Cart <| Horse

Last edited by Fane1024 on 11/12/2009 4:30:30 PM

2 up, 0 down

Kevadu
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:20:43 PM
Reply

'This past week, things flared up again when L4D project lead Chet Faliszek said the 360 community was "head and shoulders above the PS3."'

Oh come on, Valve has said plenty of boneheaded things without having to make stuff up. That quote is referencing about the community *features* of the 360/XBL platform, not the community itself. I went and tracked down the full quote:

'Faliszek replied went on: "In hooking up with your friends and the community aspects, I think the Xbox 360 is head and shoulders above the PS3. The 360 and PC are on par, right?"'

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=226831

Agree or disagree, but at least try to be accurate. I realize the way Ben phrased it is the same as the 1UP article he references so the fault is mostly theirs (actually, you might say it's mostly CVG's for their inflamatory title in that link above), but just quoting other blog sites without checking the original sources is irresponsible.

0 up, 14 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:03:31 AM

Kevadu, what in God's name do you think that means? When one uses the term "community," they are referring to the entire thing, features included.

None of the sources are at fault. You're just wrong.

14 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:22:09 AM

I just assumed they meant LIVE, not the people themselves.

3 up, 2 down

Kevadu
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:48:05 AM

Exactly what World said. There is a big difference between the technology and the people. He says 'community aspects', not just 'community'.

3 up, 5 down

johnld
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 4:04:37 AM

So the live community is head and shoulders above psn in feature, which is possible but given that features can be added through firmware, its no big deal. But more features doesnt really mean better, i mean do we really need facebook or twitter or any of those things on the game system. As for the community, i believe the psn community is head and shoulders above the live community, this i mean the people. I like having mature and fun games when i play killzone or other games. Part of the reason i couldnt justify renewing my live subscription, all those damn retarded kids. I mean how can you loose and arguement by yourself? The kid actually put himself down agains someone who just ignored him.

3 up, 2 down

Orvisman
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 9:22:29 AM

I agree with Ben on this, and Kevadu and World are misreading it.

When the original speaker states "community" he clearly means the people on Live, especially since he prefaces the statement with "In hooking up with your friends and the community aspects..."

Look up the definition of "community" and it clearly references a body of people in every definition. How can you sit there with a straight face and claim that he doesn't mean the people and that Ben and the original author are overreaching?

As far as the term "aspect," it doesn't mean feature set or any such thing. Nowhere does he mention feature set, so you are the one reaching.

I don't think he was referencing the "features" of Live and PSN but instead the common belief that Live is a community since everyone talks over Live and PSN users are a faceless, voiceless bunch because of the lack of a bundled headset with the PS3 -- let's ignore the fact that most people have a BlueTooth headset for their cell that they can use on PSN.

If the guy who made that statement meant what you think he meant, he is an ignorant fool who needs to choose his words more clearly because the only thing you can take away from his statement is that he thinks the people on Live are a more active, vocal, cohesive community than PSN users.

Now, I'm not a Valve hater. I have the Orange Box and Left 4 Dead; and I will buy Left 4 Dead 2, though I would prefer to buy it for the PS3. I'm just tired of Valve's blatant hatred for the PS3 right from the beginning when Newell said Sony should just stop selling the PS3 and start over.

Valve, in essence, is a second-party developer for M$ft; so Valve's statements would be akin to Insomniac or Sucker Punch (Sony really needs to buy these companies) bad mouthing the 360, which they never do.

All you need to know about Valve is that Newell likes the 360, hates the PS3, and LOVES the Wii. Now, I have a Wii, and it is what it is, but I don't love it.

Anyway, here are the rest of Pitchford's comments from that article. His comments are enlightening, especially his thoughts on the PS3 version of the Orange Box toward the end:
"I'm actually kind of mad at Doug because with the Orange Box, he said the 360 and PC versions are the good ones and the PS3 version is like the stepchild because some other developer made it. Well you, Valve, don't really think that, because look what you've done on the PC side," he said.
"You've supported that, you've added all this content to Team Fortress 2, and you've left us hanging. It's hard to accept that genuinely, because I know the business, I know you guys make half the money on the PS3 version because you've got other fingers in the pie, and other developers getting a cut."
"It benefits you if nobody buys that, and only buys the PC version, because you make the most money. There's this underlying sleaziness. You know what, I thought the performance was a little slower on the PS3, but it looked better. The colors were nicer, I thought the image looked better on PS3. It was a trade-off between the performance and the visuals. And I like visuals."

8 up, 0 down

Alienange
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:20:42 PM

What Orvisman said.

1 up, 0 down

Banky A
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 9:38:47 PM

Orvisman, yeah man..

1 up, 0 down

Guest
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:20:59 PM
Reply

Great article, brightened my day...

5 up, 2 down

Scarecrow
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:21:12 PM
Reply

Agree

Well the good thing for me is that I never found any of Valve's games to be my kind of thing.

They're just PC fanboys who are butthurt at the fact that Sony crushed the hopes of PC gamers back in 1995

13 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:24:47 PM

very true, and they don't want to eat their words and prove they are oldsters when it comes to game development by accepting help from Sony.

10 up, 3 down

Qubex
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 12:18:51 AM

Too arrogant to see their own bugs...

Q!

"i am home"

5 up, 0 down

HeXeN
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:23:00 PM
Reply

From that small statement that Randy Pitchford made I could tell he's a classy guy.Unfortunately Valve will never change;It doesn't matter if every CEO of every gaming company in the world demands that Valve develops for the PS3, they will never do it(stubborn cocks).

10 up, 1 down

Highlander
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:23:34 PM
Reply

Ouch! That hurts! Grab your Pitchfords and torches folks, there's a flaming to do!

15 up, 0 down

Alienange
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:26:53 PM
Reply

Well at least if Pitchford is found dead under a pile of hamburgers we'll all know who did it.

11 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 10:38:52 PM

haha, except you-know-who wouldn't leave any burgers behind.

15 up, 0 down

Alienange
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:11:49 PM

lmao

8 up, 0 down

Banky A
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 9:19:30 PM

He-who-must-not-be-named would 'remove' any trace of evidence. If 'he' didn't have dinner, maybe Pitchford might not ever be found at all..

0 up, 0 down

___________
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:07:46 PM
Reply

ignorance is bliss.
the irony is killing me.
Randy, do me a favor.
if your going to complain about someone not supporting someone, make sure your doing a stellar job.
i dont have to bring up the million and one issues i had with borderlands on the ps3 again do i?
i would of preferred borderlands be a 360 exclusive that way i can get the game and it works, than it be a multi plat and waste my 100 bucks on the more broken version.
the 360 version has its bugs, but at least it works.
its quite obvious why valve dont work for the ps3, they dont want to release a inferior product unlike someone.
unlike someone they want there game to be the best quality possible, if that means leaving out a certain console so be it.
i commend valve for their guts and pride in there games, unlike valve it seems these people are worried about one thing, and one thing only.
money money money money money money money money.
im sick to death with video games being seen as a slack ass easy way to make money.
back in the day games were made because the person making them had a passion thats why the games were so good, now most developers just see it as a cash cow, no love.
gearbox could not care less if there game sucks, as long as it brings in the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
thats all that matters.
ITS PATHETIC!

1 up, 14 down

Alienange
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:13:23 PM

Good one Gabe! You sure told him!

<goes back to PS3 copy of Borderlands>

9 up, 1 down

tes37
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:21:06 PM

I can't believe you set that cheeseburger down long enough to type this Gabe. How dare you hijack no name's name.

12 up, 1 down

HeXeN
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:21:38 PM

At least I could find a borderlands copy in the PS3 section.But I have looked and looked everywhere and cannot find Left4dead for PS3 anywhere; maybe I'm just looking in the wrong store (Or I just don't give a F*).

11 up, 1 down

___________
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 5:56:46 AM

heh its not my fault yous are all fanboys.
valve have released some of the best games this industry has seen.
half life is STILL spoken to be the best FPS after how many years of release?
me personal did not like L4D but it got nominated for several GOTY awards and im sure the same will happen with L4D2.
theres a reason why every game they release gets nominated for GOTY, and is spoken of for years to come.
gabe might have a fat mouth, but who dosent?

0 up, 12 down

Karosso
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 8:28:00 AM

Is it me or every single post you submit is whining or being negative about any games that gets released on the PS3?
I mean, the list of things that were wrong with Uncharted 2 was hilarious to say the list but, I'm starting to get an annoying "better than thou" vibe from you with every post... Just saying.
Peace.

12 up, 0 down

Orvisman
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 9:27:02 AM

I think no name is obviously a 360 fanboy who has managed to fly under the radar for far too long by being smart enough to not start any flame wars.

But he/she clearly dislikes the PS3 and the PS3's games and prefers his/her 360. If you read his/her posts, you'll know what I mean. Has he/she ever posted anything positive about the PS3?

LOL.

As far as us being fanboys, I also have a 360 and a Wii and I think they are both fine consoles. You will never see me slagging either of them.

But I think you miss Pitchford's point that Valve are the 360/PC fanboys here.

Last edited by Orvisman on 11/11/2009 9:30:20 AM

9 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:04:15 PM

@___________

My, my, what a truly remarkable, outstandingly literate, loquacious reply that was.

7 up, 0 down

Alienange
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:24:21 PM

@ HeXen - You made me LOL.

@ _____ - You lost me when you said "yous"

5 up, 0 down

bearbobby
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 4:00:12 PM

@________

Grammar and spelling are your friends.

7 up, 0 down

___________
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 6:21:57 AM

sigh.
im not going to bother anymore, its like talking to a brick wall.

0 up, 6 down

bearbobby
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 5:57:26 PM

At least brick walls are kind enough to punctuate.

2 up, 0 down

Banky A
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 9:17:12 PM

You said 'sigh' on the internets?

0 up, 0 down

King James
Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 2:51:13 PM

...A brick wall or just ppl with different opinions.

1 up, 0 down

Gabe Newell
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:32:46 PM
Reply

Guys, I care about you. Really, I dont want to screw you over. Remember when I said that we would start ps3 development? I only said that so you can be enlightened with happiness! The comments by this Gear Box guy is mean. He should see what REAL GAMES ARE! YEAH! STEAM BABY!

Now where did I leave my McDonald's meal?

16 up, 4 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:23:28 AM

hah!, okay who went to so much trouble to alter their appearance?

7 up, 0 down

leatherface
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:07:23 AM

Gabe, get your fingers outta the pie!

Last edited by leatherface on 11/11/2009 2:07:34 AM

5 up, 0 down

ShooPooMagoo
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 4:47:23 AM

Hey Gabe, you still a virgin? By the way, do you own a dog named Brian?

5 up, 0 down

Alienange
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:25:12 PM

Man that was funny

0 up, 0 down

King James
Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 2:53:01 PM

Bravo, psuedo-Gabe.

0 up, 0 down

MyWorstNightmar
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:51:59 PM
Reply

I dont mind comments like Chet Faliszek saying the 360 community was "head and shoulders above the PS3.", but for God's sake, don't let that be the end of your quote. Back it up with why that is the case. He sounds like a fanboy when he talks like that. I am sure he has his reasons for feeling that way, so say it!

Then we can disect his reasons and see if they are valid or not.

It was encouraging to see Sony extend an olive branch and offer assistance, but it has to be a two way street. It is surprising to me that Sony is turning the other cheek the way they do. Makes me wonder why?

I would love to know what is going on behind the scenes, and what are the inside stories that we all don't know about. Why is Sony seemingly bending over backwards for Valve. Who needs who more? Sony certainly doesn't need Valve, but I would sure think Valve would love to get their grips into the ever expanding PS3 base.

Maybe Jack Tretton has a bet with somebody over at Microsoft that he can get Valve in the fold.

Last edited by MyWorstNightmar on 11/11/2009 12:01:20 AM

6 up, 0 down

Orvisman
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 9:43:03 AM

Sony wants Valve on the PS3 because getting Left 4 Dead on the PS3 eliminates a 360 console exclusive.

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:13:08 PM

Sony offers that support to all developers, it's not something that is specific to Valve. They have offered that kind of support - publicly - to other developers before.

5 up, 0 down

MyWorstNightmar
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 4:55:09 PM

Yes Highlander, but never to one that has such a public persona of Sony hate.

2 up, 0 down

556pineapple
Tuesday, November 10, 2009 @ 11:58:58 PM
Reply

Like I've said before, I don't need Valve on PS3. If I really want any more of their games, I can stand to wait until I build a gaming PC, which according to my financial situation, isn't going to be anytime real soon. (I admit Portal 2 interests me, but I haven't heard any update in over a year.) Kudos to Pitchford for speaking his mind. We have enough fanboys already, we don't really need them in the industry.

6 up, 0 down

OriginalSin
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 12:00:30 AM
Reply

Valve Who?

To be honest there are just too many exclusive titles that is getting my attention these days... I actually couldn't care less about Valve and if the ever develop something for the PS3.... i really don't care.

Our exclusives are better than any game they could ever make (Unless the use the PS3 for an exclusive). And we know that will never happen.

Secondly I use PSX for all my game reviews and opinions and the moment they mention "inferior port" I give the game a skip, or wait till the issues have been fixed. I mean I have enough to choose from in Sony's exclusive range and then also a huge selection of games from developers that actually work hard on a proper multiplat game that I really could care less or waste my time and money on games or should I rather say developers that just doesn't do a good job...

The gaming industry is beyond huge and if they (Valve) only want a small piece of the pie ... so be it.

One thing is for sure thou...even if the do bring L4D, or a new exclusive to the PS3 I won't buy it. They already showed that they don't like us (PS3) and don't respect us either. So one day when they wake up and smell napalm and suddenly say:

"...Oh my.... We were so wrong and such idiots.... the PS3 market is soo strong and we are loosing out because were a bunch of chops....blah blah bla..."

Ant they then decide to actually make games for the PS3...well too bad buddy you won't be getting my money or my support..

8 up, 1 down

Hezzron
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 12:01:42 AM
Reply

Valve's PS3 stance should be alarming to anyone working for that company. With Valve's boorish blind support for a dying game platform (PC) and inferior, unreliable console (360), "Left 4 Dead" might actually be some ironic foreshadowing about Valve's future.

13 up, 1 down

mousekiks
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 1:45:59 PM

wow...ownd much?

0 up, 0 down

Naztycuts
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 12:13:49 AM
Reply

I dont WANT to play L4D Make a REAL zombie game, Now that's an unappreciated genre the survival-horror. Resident Evil hasn't gotten it right since the first one after the 2nd one they were action IMO but I enjoyed 4 it just wasn't scary , the second one was ok but not scary enough. dead space was scary but unrealistic (I'm not knocking it just look at the premise I will never be on a spaceship in my life, you won't either...) I think we should demand a new survival horror IP from someone who's capable of pulling out all the stops ya know? Come on NAUGHTY DOG you guys can do it after Uncharted 3 or something! I can dream

4 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:26:23 AM

Dead Space 2 will just have to shoulder the load.

6 up, 0 down

Nynja
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:40:15 AM

I played the Left 4 Dead demo on 360 and did not care for it one bit. Quality wise, it felt like a low budget PC game from 5-10 years ago. The co-op concept is what is the most interesting thing about the game.

Thankfully we have much better quality games that offer this; Uncharted 2, Resident Evil 5, CoD: World at War, MW2, Borderlands, and others like Lost Planet 2 around the corner.

2 up, 1 down

Imagi
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:35:49 AM
Reply

Always liked Gearbox. I wonder what response Valve gave Sony when they offered the help, anyone know? At least PS3 owners are not missing out on much.

7 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 12:12:21 PM

does that help you sleep at night? That makes no sense... you keep trying to convince yourself that some how games like L4D are not good

0 up, 4 down

Imagi
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 5:17:16 PM

What? Please make sense.

Left for dead is a rinse and repeat affair with a very poor story, I have played the half life games on PC and on the whole scale of things with the offerings PS3 have they have no reason to feel that they are missing out on anything.

3 up, 0 down

Nynja
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:36:03 AM
Reply

Valve can kiss my @$$. At this point, even if Valve brought over any games I don't believe it would do well due to PS fan's self esteem. I will never purchase a game from them, ever... unless to destroy it on camera.

Now I'm tempted to make a YouTube donation.

5 up, 1 down

JJJames
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:40:05 AM
Reply

I love Valve's games but to be honest I can live without them... I wish they just get the Job done proberly or just stop taking cheap shots at the PS3.

4 up, 1 down

Snaaaake
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 5:34:27 AM
Reply

The only game I ever love from Valve is Counter Strike and that's it.
Never was interested in Half Life and Team Fortress.
Left 4 Dead was fun.....for the first 30 minutes and after that it's "What the? I played this repetitive game for half an hour?"

If they added story into L4D then it'd be perfect but sadly there's no story to explain what caused the infection and how.
Reminds me of some of the George A.Romero's Dead series where in the beginning we just have an infected civilization.

2 up, 1 down

Deleted User
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 12:14:08 PM

Don't post lies... 30 mins isn't enough time to run through a whole campaign unless you're with a stellar group and certainly not enough to run through all the other campaign.

0 up, 3 down

A2K78
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 6:35:40 AM
Reply

Pitchford's issues with Valve really has nothing to do with the PS3, but rather Valve supposedly screwing over developers with Steam:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=25565

If anything I would say Pitchford is using this to continue his attack on Valve.

2 up, 0 down

LightShow
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 6:48:21 AM
Reply

typically, Valve's counterparts in the PS3 gaming space (Naughty Dog, etc) are of the opinion that their games just flat out arent possible on the 360, and leave it at that. on valve's end of the spectrum, they waste way too much time bashing the PS3 for no practical reason. i think its an important distinction.

6 up, 0 down

Orvisman
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 9:39:54 AM

Actually, Naughty Dog is a first-party developer.

As I pointed out in a post above (I made the same point you made), I compared Valve to second-party developers Insomniac and Sucker Punch because, in essence, Valve is a second-party developer.

4 up, 0 down

LightShow
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 6:11:44 PM

i believe you have it backwards. Naughty dog is independent while Insomniac and Sucker Punch are owned by SCEA.

0 up, 2 down

Orvisman
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 8:37:59 AM

Nope. I'm right. You're wrong.

Internally Owned Studios

Japan
Clap Hanz – Everybody's Golf, Everybody's Tennis[5]
Japan Studio – Ape Escape, Siren, LocoRoco, Patapon
Team ICO – Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, The Last Guardian
Polyphony Digital – Gran Turismo

United States

Naughty Dog - Crash Bandicoot, Jak & Daxter series, Uncharted series
Santa Monica Studio – Kinetica, God of War series, Warhawk with Incognito Entertainment
San Diego Studio – NBA, MLB: The Show
Sony Bend – Syphon Filter, Resistance: Retribution
Sony Online Entertainment – EverQuest
Incognito Entertainment – Warhawk with SCE Studios Santa Monica, Twisted Metal series, Downhill Domination, Calling All Cars
Zipper Interactive – SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs series, MAG

United Kingdom

London Studio – SingStar, Eyetoy, PlayStation Home with SCE Studio Cambridge
Studio Cambridge – MediEvil, PlayTV, PlayStation Home with SCE London Studio
Studio Liverpool – Wipeout, F1
Evolution Studios – MotorStorm, World Rally Championship
Bigbig Studios – Pursuit Force, MotorStorm: Arctic Edge

Continental Europe

Guerrilla Games – Killzone series

Second Party Studio Partners (This just means Sony contracts with them to develop a game exlusively for the PS3/PSP)

Japan
Game Republic – Folklore, Genji
Q-Games – PixelJunk
Media.Vision – Wild Arms
Pyramid – Patapon
From Software – Demon's Souls

North America

Insomniac Games – Resistance series (excluding Resistance: Retribution), Ratchet & Clank series
Sucker Punch Productions – inFamous, Sly Cooper
ThatGameCompany – Flow, Flower
Ready at Dawn Studios – God of War: Chains of Olympus, Daxter
High Impact Games – Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters, Secret Agent Clank
Eat Sleep Play – Twisted Metal: Head On
Slant Six Games – SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Confrontation, SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo 3
LightBox Interactive
Titan Studios - Fat Princess
United Front Games - ModNation Racers

Europe

Quantic Dream – Heavy Rain
Relentless Software – Buzz!
Media Molecule – LittleBigPlanet
Ninja Theory – Heavenly Sword
EPOS Game Studios - Crash Commando

2 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 12:06:31 PM

When did they scoop up Quantic Dreams? Their last title was multi-platform

1 up, 5 down

Fane1024
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 4:43:59 PM

@Cueil

Second-party means they HAVEN'T "scooped up" the developer, only that Sony (or Nintendo or M$) is publishing their games, usually on a semi-permanent basis.

Orvisman made that clear in his comment.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 11/12/2009 4:45:12 PM

2 up, 0 down

Orvisman
Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 8:54:51 AM

And that Sony owns the rights to most of those games, if not all.

1 up, 0 down

JackC8
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 7:22:47 AM
Reply

Whatever. I'll never buy anything from Valve. End of story.

1 up, 0 down

daizycutter
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 7:54:25 AM
Reply

unfortunately valve are still surfing there popularity and profit from the halflife series and believe that everyone should bow down to them ...wot i dont understand is why would they want to alienate themselves from better technology and a growing market ..curious

1 up, 0 down

Orvisman
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 9:33:09 AM
Reply

Anyone who hasn't purchased Borderlands PS3 yet should go right out and buy it to support Pitchford and Gearbox.

Hell, I'm going to buy it new and stop waiting on a GameStop sale to pick it up used.

5 up, 0 down

Bandit King
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 10:03:00 AM
Reply

The sad part is look at HL2, Left 4 Dead 1&2 and the Orange Box. These games are last gen tech, I own L4D and there is nothing going on there that the PS3 could not run three times over, simultaneously! Valve use to be on the cutting edge of PC development and it was saying something if your console could run a Valve/PC game, but those days are over and Valve is just as washed up and lazy as its founder.

The real reason Valve doesn't make PS3 games is, PC devs live off Direct X. You will find that it is the root problem for most of the bad 360 to PS3 ports, as Sony does not have a proper way to emulate any of the Direct X code.

The 360 at its core is a low budget PC thus its an easy/lazy choice for devs who are well versed in PC programing. This is the sole reason Western developers have the edge over Japanese developers this gen, who mainly focused on console architecture which up until this gen was nothing like the PC.

Long story short Valve is a self serving, lazy developer who is way past their prime. Valve's reluctance to work outside of their comfort zone is nothing but a testament to how obsolete they have become.

Last edited by Bandit King on 11/11/2009 10:05:10 AM

12 up, 0 down

Karosso
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 11:12:32 AM

One of the best summary to this whole debate yet!
Agreed 100%

4 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:11:57 PM

Indeed. The only thing to add is that Direct X is proprietary Microsoft. PC and Xbox Devs that build their game for Direct X have to re-implement entirely when they do a PS3 version, to use Open GL and Sony's own libraries. No one likes to do extra work so the port is inevitably a slap dash effort compared to the original, and the differences in architecture and library specification (Open GL and Direct have different strengths and weaknesses too) result in an inferior port that still needs considerable work to come up to the same standard as the original.

I think that a lot of the time developers believe that they can simply re-compile the game and drop some graphics effects to get the frame rate to be acceptable. The thing is, by doing that, they do not take advantage of the Cell or the RSX in anyway, another reason for poor ports.

3 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 12:10:24 PM

The Source Engine is still the most versatile engines out there... there really hasn't been any game that hasn't been done on it and it still holds up well. This isn't the same engine they build HL2 on anyway... it's seen many many updates, but it is a DirectX engine

0 up, 3 down

Mr Bitey
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 1:59:29 PM
Reply

Gabe worked for M$ for 13 years and became a Microsoft millionaire. He created Valve with the money that he made.

If M$ paid me millions and enabled me to peruse a lifelong dream, I would probably be bashing Sony also.

Gabe's motives are painful transparent. I think people are giving his fanboy comments too much attention.

It's the equivalent of Bill Gates saying, "PS3 sux". Of coarse Bill gates would say that.

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 2:05:22 PM

Actually, IIRC BG has said no such thing, he's actually smart enough to give credit where it's due - it makes him appear more reasonable.

0 up, 0 down

Banky A
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 9:42:02 PM

Adam, I agree for the 1st half. If I got paid heaps then I would probably bash a console ^_^
So that I can still secretly come down to my basement to play my newest generation PlayStation from Sony anyway haha.

And nah, Bill Gates isn't bad.

3 up, 1 down

Highlander
Wednesday, November 11, 2009 @ 10:29:23 PM

@Banky

To be serious for a moment, if I may. Bill Gates will probably go down in history as one of the greatest humanitarians and philanthropic individuals of our time. It says something powerful when someone as rich as Warren Buffet hands over control of his charitable giving. Gates gives more to humanitarian causes and bettering peoples lives around the world than most governments do. Granted he has the money, but having the money doesn't mean you have to use it for the greater good. Whatever I say about Microsoft and their business practices, I will never deny Bill Gates' very real contributions to charities and fundamental research around the world. If I ever met the man in real life, I would shake his hand warmly an thank him for the work he's doing now.

A couple of links to help you see what I'm on about...

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Pages/home.aspx

and this one about Buffet giving billions to Gates to manage for charities...

http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/25/magazines/fortune/charity1.fortune/

Between them, Gates and Buffet are/were worth more than $80 billion, most of which is now at Gates' disposal through the various avenues of charity and research that he funds.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/11/2009 10:34:45 PM

4 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 12:04:01 PM

Did it ever occur to you that Valve just doesn't like the way Sony builds their consoles? Really how many independent PC developers "enjoy" working on that eccentric piece of hardware?

0 up, 6 down

Fane1024
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 4:53:53 PM

@Cueil

The point isn't that they don't want to work on the PS3; it's that they won't shut up about it.

Valve have the right to be 360-exclusive (or PC-exclusive, which is what they really want), just like Insomniac (et al.) are PS3-exclusive.

But to refuse to produce a PS3 version, forcing EA to farm it out, take the money from it (albeit not very much money), and then continue to make inflammatory comments about PS3 development WHEN THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO HIRE A PS3 PROGRAMMER UNTIL LAST YEAR is douchey in the extreme.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 11/12/2009 4:54:36 PM

5 up, 0 down

Banky A
Thursday, November 12, 2009 @ 9:17:22 PM

Yeah go Bill.

0 up, 0 down

Orvisman
Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 8:56:44 AM

Agreed Fane!

0 up, 0 down

pillz81
Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 3:49:45 PM

Cueil, are you saying people shouldn't try to reinvent the way game systems are built? You sir, are a philistine.

0 up, 0 down

CptGreedle
Friday, November 13, 2009 @ 11:53:29 AM
Reply

I have had people call me a fanboy whenever I talk bad about Microsoft. I hate that, because I'm not! I don't just go around talking bad about the other systems, I talk bad about Microsoft exclusively because of the repeated and continuous bad experiences I have with their products and support. I just hate Microsoft. I am not a fanboy, i am open to the Wii, or other consoles, and I love to build pcs, and while I use Mac, I also use pcs and want to give Linux a try. I am open to friendly competition and variety and the like. I have no problems with companies or people who make products or services that work the way they should, or close to it. I have even gotten over my problems with Bill Gates since he has become a philanthropist and humanitarian. But I DO have a problem with a company that repeatedly releases inferior buggy software, hardware that doesn't work right and breaks, and doesn't properly fix the situation, and practices shady business. Microsoft itself just sucks.

Last edited by CptGreedle on 11/13/2009 11:57:44 AM

1 up, 0 down

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