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First PS4 Tech Details Discovered?

It still seems way too early to be talking about the PlayStation 4 and yet, rumored news continues to pop up everywhere.

The latest is big, if it proves true: according to European source PS3Clan, it seems SCEI "has officially chosen" the technical setup for their next PlayStation iteration, which supposedly - depending on if you believe the translation - will launch in 2012. The choice? The PowerVR Series 6 by Imagination Technologies that utilizes a technology known as "TBDR," which is "3-5 times better than a competitive level nVidia/ATI Graphics card." Evidently, Sega used TBDR to help power the old Sega Dreamcast and if you remember, that console was definitely ahead of its time in the visual department. But perhaps the most interesting part about all of this is that Sony will retain the Cell processor currently in all PS3s; this new piece of advanced technology from Imagination will work with the Cell. The quote in question is as follows, although you may wish to take it with a grain of salt without any official information:

"The PlayStation 4 shall use a high end variant of the 6 Series line. Performance, specifications and features are at this time unknown. The Series 6 shall receive an official announcement from IMGTEC sometime in 2010, with initial models targeting the smartphone and netbook sector."

On top of which, the rumor gets bigger by saying that SCEI has furthered opted to work with IMGTEC for the next iteration of the PSP; the new handheld will get the benefit of the Series 5XT. All of this may sound like complete gibberish unless you're really into hardware or programming but if it's all true, this is the first solid piece of technical information we've seen concerning the PS4. The only doubt we have is whether or not it'll be available by 2012... However, if you think about it, the time frame would be in line with the last generation; the PS2 launched in late October and the PS3 launched in November of 2006. So you never know.

11/22/2009 9:14:48 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (100 posts)

LittleBigMidget
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:23:32 PM
Reply

I randomly searched up PS4 yesterday and I got results from this site (Can't remember the name) and they said the PS4 is confirmed and will be for casual gamers. I know its just a rumor but could you imagine that?

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Charger7302
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:32:12 PM

I read that on many sites too, and I pray it is not true. If Sony pulls off a "nintendo wii", I wouldn't support it, and I know many wouldn't either. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes and create another system like the ps2, great for both casuals and hardcores.

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Buckeyestar
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:31:24 PM

I agree. I don't own a Wii and I never will. I don't do casual games other than what's on my iPhone. If this were to come to pass, then I would be forced to give my allegiance to any console that actually produced my kind of games.

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Douchebaguette
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:54:43 PM

Rumours are like magic tricks: you never know if it's information hiding from up someone's sleeve, or misinformation hiding from up someone's ass.

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Mr Bitey
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 7:22:29 AM

"3-5 times better than a competitive level nVidia/ATI Graphics card"

The Wii is basically a GameCube with different housing and controllers.

3-5 times better sounds nothing like the Wii to me. :)

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nad
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:24:28 PM
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considering that the ps3 took its time before it started making money, i think 2012 is a bit early

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:27:54 PM

Seems to me the PS3 won't even hit its peak of top notch software until 2012.

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___________
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:15:06 PM

only reason the ps3 took so long is because sony had so many issues with the bluray tech.
im assuming they will use the same media but increased capacity maybe 100GBs per layer on a dual layer disk.
i doubt there will be massive delays like there was with the ps3 because almost everything was new tech.
ps4 im expecting to be the same tech but just newer, only thing that needs to be different is the VDU.
the RSX is ridiculously slow in comparison to the cell.
maybe sony can finally release the dual cell and VDU like the original ps3 was suppose to have.
anyone remember the one showed at E3?
it had 2 cells instead of 1, 2 HDMI ports, 2 Ethernet ports that thing was a true beast.
maybe its time to let the beast out of its cage?

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Banky A
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:58:58 AM

But the world ends in 2012.
Conspiracy?

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Imagi
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 3:38:31 AM

Na, cause 2016 is when it hits the fan.

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Orvisman
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 9:06:06 AM

No one is saying the PS3 will disappear when the PS4 shows up.

If anything, Sony has shown it will continue to support the "last-gen" console throughout its 10-year plan.

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:14:54 AM

Gotta agree there, 2012 seems a little early. Perhaps early 2014, because no one would want to release a new system in 2013....

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laxpro2001
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 11:27:12 AM

"Perhaps early 2014, because no one would want to release a new system in 2013...."

Unless of course consumers demanded it, and the company in question wanted to make money.

Though your reasoning is silly I agree with 2014 being a good estimate.

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:19:58 PM

@laxpro
It's no more or less silly than buildings in the US with more than 12 floors skipping floor 13 completely.

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kevinater321
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 3:03:01 PM

Sony should have the ps4 already made and everything and able to ship out in a moments notice. We never know when microsoft will release the xbox 720 or whatever, but they will probably try to release it a year early like they did this gen so Sony should be prepared for the xbox release.

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laxpro2001
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 8:54:50 PM

@The Highlander

Originally I though this was a good point but if a console is ready, they would most definitely put it out on the market despite the year.

But I forgot about that little fun fact lol... very silly indeed

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AcHiLLiA
Thursday, November 26, 2009 @ 2:33:09 PM

Probably the PS4 will hit the US market couple of years before 2016. They said the PS3 having a 10 year lifespan('06-'16).

Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 11/26/2009 2:37:49 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:26:37 PM
Reply

I understand the need to look into technologies for a future console and every thing but whenever I read about a PS4 I get a little sick to my stomach. Just focus on PS3 games and stuff now please. Keep that other info out of the public eye because it scares people.

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nickert0n
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 @ 4:23:18 PM

Yup, I am so not ready to upgrade between my PS3 and newly built PC I'm set.

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tes37
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:29:41 PM
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I'd rather they use technology from 2012 instead of releasing something by then. I really doubt they have anything that soon though.

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Hezzron
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:49:24 PM

I was thinking the same thing. I'm enjoying my PS3 now more than ever, and I like to think that PS4 technology hasn't even been invented yet!

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johnld
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:51:12 AM

its probably a precaution *when* microsoft releases a new console soon.

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NoSmokingBandit
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 9:40:21 AM

The thing is that MS has to release something newer to catch up to the Cell and Blu-Ray. Sony doesnt need to catch up to MS at all in the hardware department.

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Scarecrow
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:34:44 PM
Reply

No need for this info now
But hey good to see they're starting early

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TheCrazyMerc
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:37:51 PM
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The new PSP better have a camera; with better loading times. >=] Sony we're counting on you.

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frylock25
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:53:31 PM

yeah whats up with that? is there a camera for the psp in US? im sick of seeing that useless icon on my psp.

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jaybiv
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:41:04 PM
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There will be a PS4, assuming Sony stays in the games market. I personally believe it will arrive in 2011. I'm just an average Joe. I have no more info on this than anyone else.

You guys are missing a key issue here. It is a no brainer that the PS4 would keep the cell foundation, which is what has been giving the devs the most problems. Keeping and refining the guts of the PS3 will only simplify the development of PS4 games.

The developers who have started getting comfortable with the cell will look forward to the PS4 because I also think Sony will learn from the design issues of the PS3. I can't wait for the Four.

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godsman
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:10:58 PM

Big games like final fantasy XII versus are coming out 2011. I doubt there's any PS4 until all the big games are out. The PS2 softwares were declining when this generation started. Sony is relying on big titles to sell PS3's. An early PS4 will hinder the sales of PS3's, which is contradicting themselves.

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johnld
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:53:20 AM

but if sony is keeping the cell architecture then developers may just be able to do some adjustments here and there.

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frylock25
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:50:54 PM
Reply

the PS2 launched in late October and the PS3 launched in November of 2006.

Ben,
did you mean to say october 2000?

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fluffer nutter
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:28:55 AM

I was just about to point that out about.

I was thinking that 2012 isn't that far fetched when compared to the lifespan of the PS2. My mind has been telling me that it's gonna be either 2012 or spring of 2013 at the latest.

Last edited by fluffer nutter on 11/23/2009 12:29:13 AM

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johnld
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:54:50 AM

well, you could go by the notion that the ps3 launched 2009 since that when they released a redesign which was like a ps3 relaunch.

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LegendaryWolfeh
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:51:45 PM
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I don't even see a reason for them to make a PS4 at the moment. With games as they are what's the next step? I mean what exactly are they adding to the games that necessarily needs a new hardware system? It's obvious that the grphx were a major part of the ps2 to ps3 change, but what more could they improve on for the ps4? only thing could be the ram, hdd size (physical size, like desktop hdd instead of laptop), new grphx card or a new processor. But this all just sounds like a PC upgrade, I want a gaming console, not something i'll have to upgrade every couple years like a PC.

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Victor321
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:59:47 PM

I completely agree with you.

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mike rlz
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 10:53:35 PM
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shhh...microsoft is watching.... wasnt there a thing where xbox stole ps2 tech or smoething?

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xnonsuchx
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:03:00 AM

Microsoft's "innovation" requires copying others' work (or buying out those companies).

The Microsoft-Sony relationship must be a little weird since they are competing in the gaming business, but work together in the computer business (like Sony VAIO notebooks in Windows 7 ads).

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SnipeySnake
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:00:19 PM
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PS4 will be so high on technology that it will have a mind of its own and become a robot and end the world. THAT is 2012. (kidding)

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BTNwarrior
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:03:22 PM

so thats why they ps4 looks like a chicken snake

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Douchebaguette
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:04:46 AM

I get it now. The PS4 is actually going to be the Super Large Hadron Collider.

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frylock25
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 6:18:38 AM

@ snipey, you think it will be skynet? lol

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BTNwarrior
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:02:19 PM
Reply

I remeber reading about the cell processor and how it was going to be the basis of the ps3 when I was in Jr. High and the ps3 didn't come out untill I was a freshman in college. So just cause they are making the tech doesn't mean that it will be out any time soon.

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frylock25
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:43:24 PM

yea i remember readin in like '01 or '02 about the cell processor. it seemed like it was soooo far off.

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Douchebaguette
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:03:47 AM

True.

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godsman
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:03:28 PM
Reply

I doubt they will make the PS4 any different from PS3. They had the money last generation from PS2 to design the PS3. This gen however Sony aren't making much profit, if any.

What I would like to see more is more memory, so the incompetent that developers that can't utilize the PS3 power correctly, can still design games like an Xbox, so there won't be anymore washed down ports. Seriously, if the PS3 ports weren't so bad, I don't mind playing multi-platform games.

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johnld
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:58:29 AM

but that would just limit game development if the developers are always using the old procedures which wont even fully utilize a systems potential. Why learn this new procedure is they can put out a decent product the way they were doing it before. When i say decent, i mean not using everything the system has to offer.

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___________
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:09:26 PM
Reply

IBM has stopped making the cell chips so thats going to leave a massive dent in sonys Armour.
i sincerely doubt it would be cost effective for them to go on and manufacture them themselves, they would need to get another company on board.
2012 seems far, far, far to early for me.
think about it, sony has spent a sh*t load of money into their new dildo, and its not due out till late next year.
why would they spend so much money developing the tech if the PS4 is going to be out a year or 2 after release?
just seems like a waste of money to me, they would be better off holding back and make it a launch item for the ps4.
though i really would like to see a new HD PSP, the sooner the better.
O and fix those lines in the screen my 3000 is giving me a serious headache every time i use it because those lines in the screen.
need to find some component cables so i can use my TV.

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 11:17:32 AM

IBM stopped developing their own version of CellBE. They have not stopped manufacturing Cell. Nor have they thrown away the technology developed. They're simply not developing their own PowerXCell chip with more than 8 SPEs. That's all they've actually announced.

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___________
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 @ 5:25:15 AM

i read a article saying the cell they were planning on doing, the one that had 2 PPEs and 32 SPUs was thrown into the trash.
and thats the one sony was rumored to be using in the ps4.
also i would LOVE to see the ps3 or even ps4 running psp games, that would be so cool.
but they wont do it, because than whats the point of owning a psp besides the portability.

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acidrunner
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:22:43 PM
Reply

It's about now that sony, microsoft and the big N will be doing research and planning into their next consoles.

my prediction for the ps4 will be a cell based cpu possibily using imagination technologies gpu.
the cell may stay the same size (as in physical size) but with more spe's, perhaps instead of 7 (originally meant to be 8) 24 - 32 would be my guess. blue ray drive, looking at maybe 1 gig of ram, not sure on the type though. all the usual things that the ps3 had, not sure about the bluetooth controllers though....... Hdd probably in the 250 - 500 gig range.
I would hazard a guess at the software (os) will be similar to the Xmb, but not in it's current state, probably with straight out of the box netflix style movie capabilities, some kind of music store perhaps.
one thing i would love to see is sony make some of these fps with kb/mouse support... but then again i'm just dreaming... just my two cents worth

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johnld
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:59:46 AM

hahaha, nintendo doing research. I predict a Wii 2.0 or a gamecube 3.0 if you will.

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Alienange
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:33:37 PM
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It takes forever to make these next gen games, you think they'll be releasing a new system? Not any time soon.

"without any official information"

Best line in there.

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therabbitkinge
Sunday, November 22, 2009 @ 11:47:32 PM
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You've gotta be kidding me? This is almost as bad as those playstation 9 commercials from way back when (that weird glass sphere or some round object for those that remember) as long as noone fans these rumor flames to much I think I'll live ^_^

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Victor321
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:13:55 AM
Reply

Whether there's a PS4 coming or not, I don't want to see it coming until 2013-2014. 2015 latest.

Sony's finally batted the PS3 into the air, away from the dreadful ground on where it had to endure many falls and bumps, and they're just gonna stop it before it makes a Home Run, so they can quickly get onto their next strike? All without knowing whether it was a successful Home Run or not?

Sony, we know you're better than this, as the best time to release the PS4 is when the PS3 is as mature and has a strong position in the market, and most importantly, gamers' hearts, just like the PS2 had.

We know you got the latter part covered, and the former part, the odds are in your hands now, but don't lose both by releasing something at the wrong time, because that will be when the dark times come again.



Last edited by Victor321 on 11/23/2009 12:16:09 AM

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fuk u
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:15:43 AM
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as of now, its all about the games... this year 2009 has been the ultimate year of PS3 games and its only going to get better with sequels to these ultimate games ( uncharted 2, Assasins Creed 2, MWF2, RE5, Madden10, GOW3 - yet to come..along with others and man i can go on n' on with a list of games.. all im saying is the PS3 as of now is just hitting its stride. the PS4 is going to come no doubt but not anytime soon 'so i hope'. The info on the technology is cool dont get me wrong Ben.. but we got alot more PS3 in the future, in games especially. I think if the PS4 were to come out sometime in 2012 people would still sit satisfied with there PS3 and its great games that are out now and ones to come. I see the PS4 hitting the market in 2014. unless XBOX360 comes out with a XBOX720 before then, then its all about competition and the PS4 will dominate. wounder what the price tag would be.............

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xnonsuchx
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:18:44 AM
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At least there was no "rumors of confirmations" in the article or title! ;-)

It sounds like mostly BS to me. It would only make sense that they keep the Cell, though, but maybe have a new higher core count CPU or maybe multiple Cells to increase performance. If they go with a different GPU, they could run into issues w/ keeping a PS4 backwards compatible w/ PS3 titles. 2014 sounds like a more reasonable time frame for a new console.

It also looks like Intel has been trying to talk Microsoft into switching back to their CPUs for the next Xbox incarnation.

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Banky A
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 1:01:32 AM
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So the Mayan calender has been set to reset for the launch of the almighty PlayStation 4?
If 2012..

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bigrailer19
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 1:09:49 AM
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Wheres Highlander? lol ;)

anyways Im kinda bummed to hear word of a PS4. i mean im glad that Sony is gonna keep pushing, but the PS3 finally hit it's stride last year (in my opinion) and it only seems to get better. This generation has ust gone by too fast for me! It seems like im still catching up although I've enjoyed the best the PS3 has to offer thus far!

I guess when i had my PS2 i couldnt wait for the PS3 so it seemed like i waited forever! Now that i have it its everything as a gamer i ever wanted, and im not willing to get rid of it for a PS4 by 2012 as awesome as that'd be. maybe by 2013! ;)

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 11/23/2009 1:10:10 AM

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frylock25
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 1:22:21 AM

well PS2 came out in 2000 and by 2002 i was reading about the PS3 and all the stuff they were workin on for it. so at this point i would ssy it is probably about right for them to be working on it a little. not that i want to give up my PS3.

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bigrailer19
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 4:50:39 AM

i know i was there for it all. my point is i just hate to see the PS3 keep getting better and better, and there be a PS4 when the PS3 hasnt even reached its peak! i felt the PS2 had done its best, and definately achieved what it was put out to do by the time the PS3 launched. This time im not sure the potential of the PS3 will be reached by the PS4 launch. The PS3 is such an amazing piece of hardware that it doesnt seem like it should be going anywhere soon. Which its not, 2012 is still 2 years off and taking into consideration itll probably be late 2012 so... But ill still be thoroughly excited about the PS4 when facts start to hit the fan.

Last edited by bigrailer19 on 11/23/2009 4:52:00 AM

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:29:32 AM

I'm here, but a little slow to the party...

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Aftab
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 1:57:03 AM
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I think it's fairly safe to say with the massive resources and following invested in technology (particularly the gaming networks) for this generation, and with global economy still slow to recover, it may even persist as "current" longer than the last one. The arrival of motion tech, such as the Natal and Sony's "wand", at this time, I'm sure is a sign of this. Uncertain (and confused) responses from developers supporting key franchises such as Epic's (as shown by recent statements by Mark Rein) are indicative of this as well.

However, because of MS's massive resources and aggressive direction, it does make sense that Sony would be preparing themselves in advance, even earlier than before. Rest assure, whatever secret plans they have will be firmly tucked up their sleeve. I myself expect that this current generation will last a year or two longer than before. So: 2013, the earliest.

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JJJames
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 3:00:17 AM
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They properly started making plans for the PS4 before they even finished the PS3. BUT why the hell would they confirm details for the PS4 at when the PS3 is at its peak?? Sales are at an all time High, most consumers who hear about details for the next instalment properly turn round and say "I'll wait an extra few years in till the PS4 comes out" That’s potential customers down the drain. Overall I think this is just your average everyday rumour, I don’t think Sony would be that stupid, right?

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Imagi
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 3:44:31 AM
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I hope this is just rumour, I would rather have another 2-4 years extra with the current generation, and have a more worthwhile technological jump to the next generation. PS3 games have just got into their stride.

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IronFace2
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 3:59:53 AM
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Agree with everyone here...

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DGo8
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 4:29:43 AM
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To be honest...im happy wit my Ps3..Sony aint gonna release tha Next PlayStation anytime soon.

I hope they price it right...and im not bovered about getting it out before MS but...it would help wouldnt it...get a year over tha next XBOX and then lets what xbox owners say when Ps3 is leading tha pack...it'll be there turn to say...but you had a year on us...and we cxan just laugh at them haha.. lol But no i think Sony will go for them massive Blu-Rays that got produced...but!!...launch Ps4 wit some AAA games and dont leave the games in short supply..like on Ps3 launch! :)

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DGo8
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 4:31:12 AM
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And i agree wit JJJames..Sony wouldnt be doing them selfs any favours PlayStation3 has just now started to sell well every month..it would be stupid!...

And IF Sony used this....what could beat it??

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randomname
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 4:38:05 AM
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Keeping the cell? that be a wise thing to do cause of the programming issues developers have. Probably gonna go with the Dual Cell Processor or something lol. Wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft is snooping around for some Sony info so they can copy or be better lol or rush and release a year early again.

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Kiryu
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 4:40:28 AM
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I would love to see Naughty Dog take the full advantage of PS4 after PS3!!!

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www
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 5:10:56 AM
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Well whatever, bring it on and we'll see which one stands out, Xbox 720, Nintendo Cokane or PS4, I'm not going to be loyal to Sony, maybe Nintendo Cokane will go hardcore this time, I miss Nintendo.

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edepot
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 6:05:02 AM
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Actually, the PS4 will probably have backward compatibility with PS3. And in that case, the CELL will probably exist in one form or another (at least in the initial models).

http://www.edepot.com/playstation4.html

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VinTheDean
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 7:17:07 AM
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I would love to see a Dual Processor Cell, the new Video Processor and 4GB of RAM. That would be freaking awesome.

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xnonsuchx
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 8:17:52 AM

TOO much RAM tends to make devs not optimize their code...I think 1GB or so would be sufficient. There are supposedly newer Cell CPUs in the works that have up to 40 SPEs...though apparently IBM recently cancelled development of a 32 SPE Cell, so it's hard to tell what that means, though the newest Cells are also 128-bit.

Last edited by xnonsuchx on 11/23/2009 8:20:28 AM

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:27:19 AM

Cell BE version 2. 4 PPUs, 32SPEs, much better double precision floating point, enhanced single precision floating point.
4GB of XDR
New GPU.
Nothing much else needs to change, maybe an uprated Ethernet chipset and 802.11n wireless ethernet, and USB 3 if it's finished by then.

It'll still be BluRay based, and instead of an HDD it might come with a solid state drive, but I'm still betting on a good old fashioned HDD.

The point is that the PS3 is/was so state of the art, that apart from an uprated CPU and GPU, a PS4 is likely to be based on pretty much the same components.

@Xnonsuchx
IBM cancelled the 32SPE Cell? I gotta check that out.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/23/2009 10:28:48 AM

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:39:44 AM

IBM says it won't develop it any more for it's own use, but that doesn't mean that Toshiba and Sony can't. Cell was a joint program, and I think Sony and Toshiba still have access to all the development materials.

I'm wondering whether IBM would undertake a quad Cell implementation is they were hired to do so. The Cell is designed to run in multi-processor configurations, so putting 2 or 4 Cells on a single package would create the kind of 16/32SPE package that we're all guessing Sony would use. Remember Microsoft had benefit from the Cell program as well because the technology was co-owned by IBM. If IBM is no longer part of the development process, Sony keeps it's technology to itself. Assuming of course that Sony is still actively developing Cell.

Need to keep an eye on this.

Hmmm... more correctly IBM says that it won't produce a 32SPE version of the PowerCell8xi, and that further development of Cell by IBM will not continue, however the same announcement also states that the Cell technology will continue to be applied throughout IBMs product line. So it sounds more like IBM has wound up their internal development team for developing their own 32SPE variant on the Cell architecture, but will continue working with the technology as part of other projects.

Toshiba is one of the primary manufacturers for Cell now, and was involved/responsible for the 45nm die shrink.

One thought that crosses my mind is that IBM has no interest in a 32SPE version of the PowerXCell 8i. However Sony might, and if IBM is contracted to do work for Sony, they will not comment on it, nor will they allow that work to be used by others. Since Toshiba ia already heavily involved in CellBE manufacture, it's possible that they would be the manufacturing partner for a future Cell with more cores, if that's where Sony goes. IBM could be contracted to help with the design, and possible as a manufacturing partner. All the announcement says is that IBM will not develop it's own products further. If you look at it, apart from the use of Cell in highly parallel super computers, the vast majority of Cell units are in PS3s, so really it makes little sense for IBM to further develope it for their own products.

I hope that IBM and Sony clarify this soon thogh, it leaves far too many questions open.

Last edited by Highlander on 11/23/2009 11:15:14 AM

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tdinc1
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 8:00:58 AM
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I will keep this post logical for everyone, I work in the automotive industry, Cars that are released for the 2010/2011 year have been worked on 4 years prior and more. There is much involved in creating a "next model" research and dev. thought processes and tooling and manufacturing. The PS3 is 3 years old. and SONY says its a 10 year supported system just like the PS2. so in fact SONY is already in the process of brainstorming the PS4. I say we start hearing more about the PS4 in about 4-5 years. As far as a "casual" ga,ing system, I believe the Dreamcast was a casual gaming system?

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BlinkBoy
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 9:29:24 AM
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I have heard about Sony going to to "re-use" the cell for their next console before but with much more SPEs. PS3 have 7 SPEs and PS4 will probably have 20 SPEs in the new cell prosessor. So making games may not be so hard to break down for PS4.

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:20:02 AM

The roadmap for the next generation cell has it as a 36 core chip (at least this was true about a year or so ago, they keep their cards close to the9ir chest. Anyway, the next generation Cell is slated to have either 2 or 4 PowerPC cores (compared to CellBE's 1 PowerPC core) and up to 32 SPEs. There was an older roadmap that talked about fewer SPEs, but the idea seems to be to effectively make a quad CellBE.

Two other things to remember are that the most current revision of the Cell design has drastically improved Floating Point math capabilities, and any future design will likely incorporate additional enhancements over and above the floating point improvements.

It will be a beast. If it shakes out the way it should, the thing ought to be capable of real time ray tracing at resolutions needed for gaming.

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frylock25
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:42:44 AM

highlander can you explain what floating point math means?

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Aftab
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 11:43:15 AM

Typically measured as "floating point calculations per second", this measures how much, how fast, and how accurately the system can process data. This affects how many polygons per second a console can push out, for example, and what kind of algorithms it can process on them.

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 11:59:13 AM

Sure. Floating point math is any non integer or fixed point calculation. Yeah, I know, that doesn't help much.

Floating point means that there is no fixed number of decimal places.

With fixed point math we can decide how precise to be when we represent the result of a calculation. For example if we fix the precision to 6 decimal places the result of the calculation 22/7 would be 3.142857. That looks pretty precise, but it's not exact, and that might matter a lot in certain kinds of calculation. Computers can perform fixed point math using standard integer arithmetic and no special hardware.

Floating point doesn't fix the number of decimal places, the decimal point floats as needed by the number. The actual result of 22/7 is 3.1428571428571428571428571428571.... It's a recurring result which means there are a potentially infinite number of decimal places.

To fully express a floating point number in a computer you would need a potentially infinite amount of storage to hold all the decmial places. Obviously though, that's not possible on a computer because there are physical limits on RAM and HDD space. Generally in computers integers are represented by 4 bytes - 32bits. A single precision floating point number is generally represented by a 32 bit number, but using 32bits limits the precision available. Double precision uses (surprise) 64 bits (8 bytes) of information to represent the number allowing double the precision of a single precision number. Clearly there is still a limit to the precision available, however double precision is for most purposes more than precise enough.

Now, a computer can be programmed to perform floating point math without any special hardware, but it's a relatively intensive process and not very efficient. However modern processors include a separate floating point unit that's designed to perform floating point calculations very quickly. These designs typically use double precision numbers. However they can perform single precision calculations as well. The CellBE SPEs are optimized for single precision work not double precision. Single precision is sufficiently precise for most gaming applications, so the Cell performs extremely well.

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frylock25
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 12:39:40 PM

highlander and aftab thank you.

highlander you have got to be the smartest person that comes to this site. i often wonder what it is you do for a living. then i often wonder why the hell your not working for sony lol.

oh and highlander i was wondering what you thought of sonys bravia tv's as you may know more about them?

Last edited by frylock25 on 11/23/2009 12:42:03 PM

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:41:16 PM

LOL! well, I don't know, I often have delusions of wisdom, sometimes I'm even right. Mostly my work is boring and not at all what I would like to be doing. But, since I have never had the knack of being in the right place at the right time, I'll have to make do, as my ship has sailed.

I like Bravia TVs, I don't have one - yet. There are several series of Bravias. Personally I'd stay away from the L series TVs as they are based on an older generation of video processor. The S and V series are based on a newer video processor and feature better refresh rates and contrast. V series are better than S. Next up are the W and Z series TVs, with increased color depth, higher contrast ratios, better video processing, higher refresh rates and so on. Finally the XBR TVs in the Bravia range, these are the top of the line from Sony. They have the best video processing, screen technology, contrast, color depth, refresh, etc... Some even have LED back lighting. They are also expensive, good, but expensive.

If money wasn't a consideration, I'd try one of these...Sony KDL-52XBR10. However, money is a consideration, so I will go a bit smaller, and less exotic...

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Gone
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 9:57:20 AM
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As long as the PS4 has b/c with PS1, PS2 and PS3, then it's all good.

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:22:41 AM

If it's based on an updated Cell Design, then it's very likely to run all PS3 software, Since it'll likely be much faster than the existing PS3, it seems likely that it will run PS2 software as well. At a pinch I'd throw in downloadable PSP titles as well - the PS3 should be capable of that already.

Any PS4 really ought to be the 'ultimate' PlayStation.

'Course owners of 20GB and 60GB NTSC PS3 launch units have some idea of that already.

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Gone
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:28:36 AM

@TheHighlander

If the PS4 uses a different graphics chip "PowerVR Series 6", doesn't that put b/c in the toilet (like the current PS3s)?

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:34:06 AM

Not really, it depends on whether the RSX does anything that is hard to emulate on another Chip. The old PS2 GPU actually did do some things that are really hard to emulate - which is why SP2 BC has been done in hardware so far. nVidia took an approach with their GPUs that is basically to throw lots of smaller units at the problem, instead of trying exotic hardware solutions. So it may be possible to emulate the RSX almost entirely. Not o mention that Sony may have optioned the design of the RSX to avoid paying nVidia continuing royalties in the future. RSX may even reappear in the PS4 as a service chip.

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Zorigo
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 11:14:40 AM
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I hope sony doesn't make a new console soon. i spent a tonne on this one. besides, the world ends in 2012, it was in that documentary made by Roland Emmerich. ;)

Last edited by Zorigo on 11/23/2009 11:15:10 AM

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laxpro2001
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 11:32:35 AM

World is not ending in 2012, and besides the amount of time it would take to develop the actual system and good playable software for it would take a long time.

Right now Sony is developing a new console because thats what a company does, they design and build new products that they know consumers will want. But like it's been said plenty of times, the PS3 has at least a 10 year life so even if a new console was released tomorrow you know you would still be able to get the value out of your ps3.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 2:32:35 PM

documentary, lol

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Deleted User
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 3:24:32 PM
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PS4 eh? All I can say is this. If the price of the system is not going to be 299 or lower it will not sell, just like the ps3.

But then again Sony had a plan for the price of the PS3. Too bad it failed.

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Highlander
Monday, November 23, 2009 @ 10:31:10 PM

It should be easier to control the price since the BluRay drive won't cost $350, and the new CPU won't cost as much to develop (assuming it's an evolution of the Cell BE). The PS3 was a completely new system new CPU, new GPU, new memory (XDR), new optical drive, new controller interface, custom heat sink/fan, etc...it was always gonna be costly.

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Highlander
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 @ 11:51:30 AM

The slow start does make it still feel like a 'new' system, doesn't it?

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coyo18
Tuesday, November 24, 2009 @ 5:58:34 PM
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It's too early, we just got the PS3 slim,
2015 maybe

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SS4
Wednesday, November 25, 2009 @ 5:20:15 PM
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To me this makes sense. I can see a trend, PS1 got slim in 2000 and the OS2 also came out that year. Then the PS2 got slim in 2004 and the PS3 came out in 2006....now that the PS3 got slim, a PS4 in 3 years (2009-2012)looks exactly in line with what Sony's been doing all this time.

I'm sure other must have noticed the trend right ^^

Last edited by SS4 on 11/25/2009 5:28:32 PM

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Higz_Bozon
Wednesday, November 25, 2009 @ 6:19:44 PM
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An accompanying rumour has the PS4 CPU based on a derivative of IBM's POWER7 architecture. If true, killing CELL development makes more sense now. POWER7 is an 8-core design and reintroduces "out-of-order" execution, which put together with the growing library of development tools available should hopefully make for an easier development scenario.

The PowerVR 6 for graphics also makes a *lot* of sense if you step back and look at what went wrong with PS3. The tile-based rendering technique PowerVR uses in their chips allows them to keep the size of the chip small (and thus cheap) while delivering good performance. If it can handle 1080P with say 4X anti-aliasing without breaking a sweat and provide some form of decent shading power, it should be a win. Physics, A.I., etc. can be offloaded to POWER7. Finally, POWER7 uses DDR3 memory which is cheaper than RAMBUS.

If they can create a variant where the DDR3 sits on the same chip package as the POWER7 CPU to reduce latency, it should give spectacular performance, given that both POWER7 and PowerVR 6 will also uses embedded RAM already (eDRAM). Sorry for the ramble, it's just fun to speculate. I guess the reason we're hearing about it so early is that because CELL is so exotic, we'll only ever have a few developers like Naughty Dog churning out killer IP, and it can't survive on that alone. The lame ports aren't going to stop anytime soon... it's still a bad situation, long-term.

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phade2blaq
Wednesday, November 25, 2009 @ 8:09:04 PM
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I hope Sony has a clear cut strategy for the PS4 because they didn't do a great job with the PS3 design, implementation and marketing !

They also need to design a GAME CONSOLE and not a be all media centerpiece. I only play games on my PS3 so there's no need to browse the web, download photo's, movies etc when I have a PC for that !

Sony must decide what they want the PS4 to be ! Is it a gaming console, a dvd player, web browser or the centerpiece of someones home entertainment center !

Lastly, Sony must come in at a decent price because the world's economy probably will be suffering and as such more and more people will likely have less money to spend on things that aren't essential to everyday life !

Anything over $450 will be pushing it !

Last edited by phade2blaq on 11/25/2009 8:10:32 PM

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Higz_Bozon
Thursday, November 26, 2009 @ 3:58:08 AM

Yeah, the design certainly gets a lot of criticism, but in some ways they really had no choice back then. CELL was the only concept on the table that would provide the large computational density the developers kept asking for, given that the megahertz race was essentially near death and the move towards a parallel approach would become an inevitability. Yes... the GPU is weaker than the XBOX 360's but it's still more efficient than having a second CELL do the graphics.

It's sad how SONY delivered on so many fronts and yet they get so much negativity. And now... everybody is talking about this multicore thing and the programming challenges involved- LOLERZ!! I can see why Nintendo gave these developers the middle finger and just went with a better GameCube. I agree about returning to a dedicated gaming function; cramming all that other crap in there just takes away from the magic- and drives up costs, too.

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NetheRealm
Thursday, November 26, 2009 @ 12:43:24 AM
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The $1,000 1080PS4 Vs. The $500 XBOX720P. Which would you buy?

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phade2blaq
Friday, November 27, 2009 @ 12:51:21 AM

I wouldn't pay a $1,000 for a gaming console that'll be obsolete almost as soon as it hits the market much like PCs !

Sony needs to design a practical gaming console that attracts casual and hardcore gamers much like they did with the PS1 and PS2 consoles !

Part of what made gaming fun in the beginning was the fact that Atari, Nintendo, Sega and others made practical cost effective consoles that offered hours and hours of fun for gamers whether they were hardcore or casual !

Sony is trying to bridge entertainment platforms in one box and that isn't what gamers want !

I own a stand alone blu-ray player and a nice high end PC so I don't need a gaming console that hiccups, freezes and crashes because it has very similar remnants of a PC !

Last edited by phade2blaq on 11/27/2009 12:59:27 AM

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PaiNT_kinG
Friday, November 27, 2009 @ 5:42:31 AM
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OMFG THE WORLD IS ENDING IN 2012,NO WONDER SONY IS SO BUSY BUILDING ANOTHER PLAYSTATION LMAO

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