Sony Seeking Alternatives To Cell Architecture For PS4
See Full ImageI think most of us are hoping the PS4 is still a long ways off, but that won't stop Sony from conducting the appropriate research.
We've already heard whispers of the new PlayStation and it seems we'll be seeing a bit more in the way of news and details in 2010. According to Kotaku citing Japanese website PC Watch, Sony is apparently "looking to alternatives to the PS3's Cell architecture," and a few early ideas have included the Cell and Intel's Larrabee. Sony passed on this latter concept because they want "a bit more horsepower," and they might now be working on new designs featuring a multicore CPU. At this point, most analysts don't believe we'll see the next Xbox or PlayStation until 2012, although Nintendo may release a high-definition version of the Wii before then. Thing is, it takes a while to design and ultimately produce a brand new machine and besides, consumers do need some time to acclimatize themselves to each new generation. Sony continues to insist that the PS3 will have a 10-year-lifespan but of course, the PS3 could stick around for quite a while after the PS4 arrives. Just look at the PS2.
Whatever they decide to do with the next PlayStation, Sony should never forget that their popular brand name has been built with the excellent software that has been available for their consoles. Oh, we shouldn't worry...they haven't forgotten yet, anyway.
12/28/2009 9:17:51 PM John Shepard
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Comments (86 posts)
to_far_apart
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:35:53 PM
Well, one positive thing is that they're now starting to think about the developers here, because we all know it took developers to get comfortable with the cell processor. Why not keep the processor, just add something to it? Just an idea haha
If a PS4 does come around soon, the only thing i ask for is, backwards compatibility. My PS3 is backwards compatible, but how about a more rock solid one, maybe play every PS brand game? PS1 - PS3? A little ambitious, but that would help a lot of people decide haha
Either way, good to see sony looking at different things, I'm not looking to buy another console for years to come, I'm happy with how it is right now.
3 up, 0 down
Fane1024
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 3:54:54 PM
They know how to program for the Cell now; keep the basic architecture the same and they'll be able to make the transition as easily as if it were a standard PC architecture.
PLUS THE PS4 WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY PS3 GAMES WITHOUT ANY EXTRA EQUIPMENT/EMULATION!
(sorry about the caps; I thought the point deserved shouting)
1 up, 0 down
randomname
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 5:52:34 PM
0 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:01:07 PM
Reply
20 up, 3 down
Highlander
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:30:54 PM
7 up, 6 down
Gregory Freeman
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:15:10 AM
nah joking... might buy a sega jupiter
XD lol
3 up, 1 down
Highlander
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:55:32 AM
11 up, 5 down
Nynja
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 8:25:09 AM
Maybe they don't agree with the SPUR suggestion for backwards compatibility.
Or
Probably because to some, you might as well just speak Chinese.
Or
Just some tool running through all the comments giving thumbs down.
5 up, 1 down
neighber
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 6:18:10 PM
1 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 1:56:14 AM
Like I really care...
so F*ck all 3 of ya!
2 up, 1 down
LittleBigMidget
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:07:30 PM
Reply
1 up, 4 down
dveisalive
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:08:48 PM
Reply
0 up, 17 down
Bugzbunny109
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:25:46 PM
9 up, 1 down
Alienange
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:42:06 PM
3 up, 1 down
inkme101
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:14:52 PM
Reply
3 up, 1 down
Blaiyan
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 8:46:44 AM
1 up, 0 down
NeoHumpty
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:26:31 PM
Reply
5 up, 1 down
godsman
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:47:49 PM
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8 up, 0 down
Scarecrow
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:57:24 PM
Reply
But still, a long ways off (damn these analysts and their boring lives)
They're trying to INFLUENCE US AWAY FROM THIS GENERATION
They're seeing the ps3-shift (domination) and want to minimize it by moving the generation ahead with these damn news. (wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft is supplying them with this news lol)
8 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:28:48 PM
5 up, 2 down
bigrailer19
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:21:24 PM
Reply
3 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:22:38 PM
Reply
9 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:28:16 PM
Reply
3 up, 2 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:36:24 PM
7 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:52:24 PM
The Power7 will be IBMs most powerful processor yet, when it makes it to market. So it will be powerful enough to meet the demands of the next round of consoles. Adding in a Spurs Engine from Toshiba would provide the SPEs from the cell to allow a PS4 based on the Power 7 to be backwards compatible with the PS3.
4 up, 2 down
___________
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:48:53 AM
from what i remember they want out of the whole cell manufacturing market and are sticking to the good old multicore road.
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 3:01:34 AM
The Power7 is a PowerPC processor not a Cell architecture processor. However the technology used in the SPEs and the internal bus of the cell might be used to enhance that design. Power 7 is a multi-core PowerPC processor.
Here's an article at ArsTechnica about the Power7. No mention of any specific Cell technology involved, but the chip is a monster.
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/09/ibms-8-core-power7-twice-the-muscle-half-the-transistors.ars
Here's a link from about a month ago quoting the usual Dutch sources claiming a version of Power7 specifically engineered for Sony will power the PS4.
http://forums.nzgamer.com/lofiversion/index.php/t14700.html
Last edited by Highlander on 12/29/2009 3:10:30 AM
0 up, 1 down
Nynja
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 8:22:33 AM
What are your thoughts on which processor is better designed for gaming? Personally, I think dumping the CELL could lower the generation leap we Playstation fans have become accustomed to each new console. I suppose the SPUR could provide that expected horsepower we get from the PS3 when coupled with a multi-core PC based processor. Then that raises the question on system cost. In order to maintain backwards compatibility, the nVidia RSX chip would need to be included as well. Unless some engineers are able to emulate the run-time environment.
Although not ready for a PS4 purchase, I am ready to hear more info on the architecture. Some people are into muscle cars (Ben) and some into FLOPS.
5 up, 0 down
junglemunquay
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 10:21:36 AM
Some of that explanation was pure poetry!!!
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:30:14 PM
Well, I think that the Power 7 ought to be about 10 times faster than the Cell BE overall. It depends on how things develop over the next couple of years assuming that Sony wants to use this chip in a couple of years time it will need to shrink, become cheaper, and use a fraction of the energy it currently uses.
The Power 7 is about 10 times faster than the Cell BE for Double precision mathematics. The Cell had a simplified version of the PowerPC processor core, the Power7 uses a PowerPC core with every bell and whistle available, and it uses four, six or eight of these PowerPC cores. Even if the PowerPC core in the Cell were as powerful as the ones on the Power 7, it only has one, the Power 7 has up to eight. Each 'core' on the Power 7 has 12 execution units, there are 7 different kinds of execution unit including four Double Precision floating point math units. That means that on an eight core Power 7 chip, there will be 96 execution units in total, and 32 Double precision math units. You can think of these double precision units as being similar to the SPEs on the Cell.
Each of the cores on the Power7 can handle 4 threads or processes at once, so an 8 core chip can handle 32 simultaneous processes. The theoretical maximum performance of the Power7 is pegged at about 256GFLOPS per 8 core chip. That's double precision floating point operations. The Cell was capable (with all 8 SPEs running) of nearly the same number of GFLOPS in single precision, but in Double precision it was closer to 25GFLOPS. Power 7 is intended to be used in dual processor configurations so a dual chip module is capable of half a TeraFLOP - double precision.
Now, at this moment these monsters draw more power on their own (800 watts) than the original PS3 system did. So it will have to get smaller, cheaper and use less energy by the time Sony uses it (assuming that they do).
The reports I've read suggest that Sony will get a streamlined version tailored to the task. If that is the case that would help reduce cost, and energy consumption as well as reducing the transistor count and increasing th process yield.
Time will tell.
8 up, 1 down
bigrailer19
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 1:14:51 PM
off topic: Highlander- Although most of the stuff you speak of i dont understand in the slightest. Reading your comments actually makes me feel smarter! I really learn from you. So i just wanna say thanks for posting and sharing your knowledge!
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 12/29/2009 1:19:07 PM
5 up, 0 down
Alienange
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:51:03 PM
Reply
As for Sony developing a PS4, I suppose that's unavoidable. But talking about it now after only having had the PS3 for three years seems kind of premature and the media's sad attempt at garnering attention.
1 up, 0 down
Highlander
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 11:52:55 PM
Last edited by Highlander on 12/28/2009 11:53:10 PM
6 up, 2 down
Alienange
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:20:09 AM
0 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:46:01 AM
copying college students, creating a OS off it and making millions.
i almost fell of my bed, and pissed my pants of joy when i found out M$ word is going to be banned from shelf because it infringes with patent another companies WP uses.
there releasing natal for a reason, to try and drag out the 360s life, till they can get the R&D done.
if they have another stuff up like the RROD next gen they can kiss their monopoly goodbye.
id be very,very,VERY! worried if i was M$, times have changed.
in the past they copied or infringed on something, they threw cash at it and the problem disappeared.
but recently they have tried that, and have lost many cases.
only a matter of time till the lone wolf catches smell and hunts the dripping bloody caucus.
6 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:59:01 AM
4 up, 2 down
SvenMD
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 8:21:46 AM
I think your logic would be true if consumers would stop buying a known defective product and actually drive MS to create better products....but right now they don't have to... They just have to keep Bungie on their side.
2 up, 0 down
Alienange
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 9:36:38 AM
4 up, 0 down
MyWorstNightmar
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:12:30 PM
Look what it did for the 360 beating the PS3 to market? They put out a piece of RROD garbage, but becuase they were first, and people made an initial "investment" in games, when their system would break, they didn't want to pay for a $600.00 PS3, and then games on top of it. They simply figure it is cheaper for them to buy another 360, and not let their investment in games be in vein.
Theory being that whichever is first (PS4 or XBOX720) will rule the generation simply by being first available to the consumer. For this reason, Sony might feel a need to beat Microsoft to be first out for the next generation of consoles, even though the PS3 would serve us plenty well for the next 5 years or beyond.
Last edited by MyWorstNightmar on 12/29/2009 12:16:18 PM
2 up, 0 down
___________
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 6:46:50 AM
in the past and up until now companies have been scared to take M$ to court because there such a large company, in the last few years companies slowly have been stepping up and winning.
other companies are seeing this and saying if they can do it so can we.
M$ had a stranglehold on the market, any issues, lawsuits were put to bed by M$s checkbook.
companies are not putting up with that anymore.
most recent case being this company who wrote a part of M$s microsoft office word and M$ did not get permission from them to use it.
so they took M$ to court and won.
if M$ released their next console with the failure rate of the 360 they would get the pants sued off them.
companies were scared of M$, now there not so M$ has to either ship up, or move out, otherwise there going to be taken to the cleaners.
0 up, 0 down
Charger7302
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:03:15 AM
Reply
1 up, 0 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:09:03 AM
Reply
2 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:40:25 AM
Reply
i remember hearing IBM were working on a 2 PPE, 32 SPU version of the cell in the ps3.
now that would be interesting, same architecture so BC with ps3 games should be no problem, and should have no problems running a ps2 emulator.
5 things sony really need to get right for next gen, o and need to fix this gen.
1 BC is a must, for good, not for the first year of launch.
2 price is critical, imagine how many games we missed out on, because developers skipped the console because it was too expensive and people were not buying it.
3 reliability.
the ps3 maybe more reliable than the 360 (something im still wondering though) but its a long away from the wiis reliability.
anything thats 500 bucks or more should last me 4 years no problem.
4 hire some people who actually know how to code firmware updates.
for once i would like to download a FW update that does not break my ps3 in any way.
just once.
thats not too much to ask is it?
5 sony really needs to start pushing developers into bringing their games to sonys systems.
im always getting the impression sony does not give 3rd party developers the love they give first party devs.
theres a reason why FF, GTA, MGS, DMC, RE, are no longer sony exclusives.
its because m$ knows how to spend money, and they treat developers like their family, no matter if there 1st, 2nd or 3rd.
me personally do not want a PS4 till 2013 at the earliest, and will be surprised if its released any earlier than that.
what i do want though is a PSP 2.
not a PSP 4000 or whatever new redesign they can think of.
i want a full fledged new PSP, with HD graphics.
i know, that sounds like allot, but look at M$s ZUNE HD, man that things impressive.
if a software company can do it, a hardware company can.
as one very wise old man once told me.
"never get a software company to do hardware, and never get a hardware company to do software."
now i can see why.
6 up, 1 down
sonic1899
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:47:27 AM
4 up, 0 down
___________
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:53:46 AM
my first gaming console was a ps1 and i remember playing resident evil 1 and MGS 1 on my ps1 so i assumed they were the first of the series.
i did play some of the N64 games, and PC games but that was at my cuzs house.
my parents would not let me get a games console, or even PC games even though i had a PC at the time.
even though i had the money, every time i even hinted at wanting to buy a ps3 they would bite my head off.
you have no idea the hell and anguish i had to go through to get a ps2, and even more when i wanted a ps3.
my father looked at the 1K price tag and almost sliced my head off.
so yea the ps1 was first opportunity i got to play many games.
kinda ironic really since my parents were so against me playing games but than my father is the worlds biggest GT fan.
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:57:29 AM
0 up, 1 down
Nynja
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 8:11:33 AM
Final Fantasy and Metal Gear began on the NES. Metal Gear Solid series started on the PS1.
So technically MGS was a Playstation game first. While Metal Gear name had been around longer.
0 up, 0 down
___________
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 6:50:03 AM
i mean IBM would of spent a massive amount of money along with sony and toshiba for the research and development for the cell and now after a few years there dropping it.
i was expecting the cell to be the new tech, the new big thing, kinda like what the I7 is today.
why spend all that money and just use it for such a small period of time, they could not of made there moneys worth already.
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 11:41:14 AM
What IBM has said is that there will be no more Cell specific products from them. They have stated that the technologies developed within the Cell project will be rolled into their other products where appropriate and in that sense the Cell project hasn't died or vanished it's simply been absorbed into the mainstream work that IBM does with processors.
With their Power7 processor, IBM has something that far exceeds the Cell in many ways. If you look at the design of the Power7 processor if incorporates design features and concepts from the Cell project, no doubt the floating point units on the Power7 have also been enhanced with the lessons learned with Cell.
Cell isn't dead, it's just living on in a different form.
Besides Sony and Toshiba were also development partners and can still develop the architecture as they see fit. I also highly doubt that IBM would turn down money for custom work on the Cell architecture for a client such as Sony.
2 up, 1 down
jaybiv
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 1:23:36 AM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
WolfCrimson
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:02:59 AM
Reply
1 up, 3 down
WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:33:53 AM
10 up, 2 down
coyo18
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:32:53 AM
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PS2 used to be $20-40 (40 being collectors ed, and other types of high quality gaming)
PS3 is $40-60, so PS4 would be...ughh...
I see a very empty wallet in our future.
0 up, 0 down
Fane1024
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 4:06:47 PM
0 up, 0 down
Ricochet
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 2:53:11 AM
Reply
Then the next gen 360 fanboys will be doing the same sh*t again. And Naughty Dog and all other First-party devs to clean that up.
1 up, 0 down
jerocarson
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 3:03:51 AM
Reply
If i was Dumb! I'd Believe that.
Issues regarding PS4 is too early to be debated, i think what we should be concerned about is how the PSP2 would shape up.
@Ben, the year is over, can we get some info on the secrete PS3 exclusive..
it's been a long wait.. Just like GT5..
4 up, 0 down
www
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 6:04:26 AM
Reply
0 up, 1 down
jerocarson
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 6:49:22 AM
I never doubted the slim, it was bound to happen!
The cell contributed to Sony's massive losses, and ignoring an enhanced version of the cell for the PS4 is Dumb! From a Business standpoint and every other angle you can think of.
Last edited by jerocarson on 12/29/2009 6:55:22 AM
2 up, 1 down
isaya85
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 8:14:54 AM
Reply
on topic: I think everyone forgot years back not to long after ps2 launched we started hearing about ps3 and how it was going to have features the ps2 was suppose to have, I can't remember all the details i'll look it up
4 up, 0 down
Snaaaake
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 9:00:10 AM
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PS4?
I bet my toothbrush it will be out in the year 2013.
0 up, 0 down
Shams
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 10:17:03 AM
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With MS's current market advantage, I don't think Sony will lag far behind on their release date for their next-gen console, if at all.
0 up, 1 down
Highlander
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 12:32:02 PM
6 up, 0 down
Shams
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 4:01:56 PM
3 up, 0 down
JackC8
Tuesday, December 29, 2009 @ 10:56:36 AM
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My advice to Sony - sales of the PS3 didn't really take off until after the price cut to $300. Read it, learn it, live it.
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 12:17:50 AM
1TB would be a 40 layer disc, which might not work because the additional layers may make the disc too thick and heavy to work on a standard player.
2 up, 1 down
DeathOfChaos
Friday, January 01, 2010 @ 4:56:53 PM
0 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 2:28:51 AM
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And this new & more PC based IBM Power 7 that Highlander has graciously been explaining to everyone should actually make it that much more easier for developers to make their games on the upcoming PS4.
Hey Highlander,
I figure you probably already saw it, but if not.... follow each page's link maybe 3 or 5 times straight back from the original one in this article, it shows some schematics of what this IBM Power 7 should look like.
0 up, 0 down
Highlander
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 11:47:58 AM
If you look at those schematics, you can see some influences from the Cell design have crept in. But the numbers on the thing are amazing. Each 8 core chip will be capable of a quarter of a TeraFLOP or 256 GFLOPs - double precision.
1 up, 1 down
___________
Thursday, December 31, 2009 @ 8:37:53 AM
HOLY ^%$#@#% CHRIST!
last CPU specs i looked at it was at 32 million i think.
1.2 billion in such a small silicon chip.
wow, just wow!
0 up, 0 down
BikerSaint
Wednesday, December 30, 2009 @ 5:06:18 PM
Reply
I haven't a clue to everything you've said cause all the tech talk(& that related pic) is "all Greek to me", ole non-techie dinosaur that I am, LOL
But YOU ARE THE MAN, so if you like it, then I love it too!!!
0 up, 0 down
DeathOfChaos
Friday, January 01, 2010 @ 4:54:28 PM
Reply
0 up, 0 down
Jawknee
Reply
Monday, December 28, 2009 @ 10:00:14 PM