Is The Multiplayer Boom Actually Hurting Game Sales?

Buckeyestar
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:23:08 PM
Reply

I've noticed this heavily where I work. Almost everyone there ONLY play MW2 and won't even give another game a try, such as Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2. They have MW on the brain and refuse to do anything other than play that one game online, it's frustrating when I'm trying to recommend other games for them to try and knowing they never will.

8 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:31:57 PM

I hear ya. At work guys go on about kill combos and the look of certain guns. They're missing out on some great stories and interesting characters due to mindless shooting against mostly random people they will never meet.

6 up, 2 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:14:19 AM

I've said it so many times, and i'll keep on repeating it: the jump into the online era/multiplayer boom has changed the industry significantly.

In terms of overall game quality and experience, the multiplayer component in games have left the campaign itself to be completely overshadowed. Now, not all games suffer the same problems, there are those developers who have created a significantly great campaign in addition to fun multiplayer side as well. The issue with this boom towards online gaming, is the fact that a lot of developers now feel that their main focal point has to be to the mass majority and include a functional and equally as fun online experience, it's not their fault for this movement towards online gameplay, but do to the overwhelming demand for this function, they feel that they could create a lackluster campaign and still sell well according to how addictive their online gameplay can be. This is not the case for all developers, however, because there are developers who have created games with both components of the game exceeding expectations and other developers should take some notes regarding this.

As for online gaming affecting game sales, i agree with that statement. I think that this boom into an era of online gaming has affected the industry to a degree. We see some games being overshadowed by games with a seemingly fun and addictive multiplayer. We also see people solely fixated on striving for a top rank or to be a top player online, therefore playing for countless hours, morning, day, and night. With this kind of obsession (luckily there are people who do know how to balance their time) most people generally forget about other titles, which have made their debut release and unfortunately are cast aside like stones because of this constant obsession for online. That's just my take.

If anything, one could even argue how devastating the addition on online capabilities in games have disrupted society in a way. Younger kids today spends countless hours and days, wasting away their youthfulness, spending hours in front of a television. Now, i don't know about some of you, but when i was young i played my handful video games, but i still went out, played some sports, rode my bike, and then when i had my fun, came home and spent a few hours on my games. The problem with society today is the lack or parenting and lack of discipline these parents have over their children. I'm pretty sure most of you received some pretty good spanking from your parents, or a nice juicy belt, and i'm pretty sure most of you learned your lessons quick. I know i did lol. But when a young punk can flick off and adult, disrespect anyone whom they chose, walk over their parents, then i don't know, i guess this world is rotting from within. For all we know, society has already been destined to doom.

Im sorry for barging on, i tend to do that. I hope i also didn't offend anyone, because that wasn't my intention. And for anyone who doesn't understand that this is just MY opinion ill be sure to capitalize it: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

Thanks for the time guys, i appreciate it hahah

10 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:28:41 PM
Reply

Interesting question. I've prided myself on getting the best of both worlds. I've always used my PC for online gaming (SC,CSS,BF2,etc.) and consoles for single player. Nothing beats an engaging single player game IMO. I'd much rather sit down and play some FF or Uncharted then play an online shooter for a couple mindless hours.

I personally think the whole MP boom has been hurting games in general. No longer can someone just churn out a great game, they have to add some form of online function or their game is considered lacking.

15 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:32:52 PM

"No longer can someone just churn out a great game, they have to add some form of online function or their game is considered lacking."

That's what I hate MOST.

16 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:36:26 PM

You wanna know how often I play UC2's MP?

ZERO. I've beaten the game 3 times so far, I wonder how many people did more than one play through before jumping into the MP.

9 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:49:42 PM

Got U2 for xmas, still haven't tried the MP.

7 up, 0 down

hellish_devil
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:00:59 PM

A while ago, when I didn't know if AC2 was for me, I was reading some reviews at amazon. what I noticed is that many of the user reviews complained about the lack of an online multiplayer. I think that it has become some kind of a rule for some people. Is like 'if it doesn't have multiplayer, it is no good' and that is ridiculous. A guy even said that "it is a rule to have online MP in games nowdays".

Really, times have changed. and I hope companies will still do games with single-player campaigns 3 years from now

9 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:06:37 PM

I hear ya. Now a game can have a piss poor 5hr campaign and a decent multiplayer and get 9s and above.

HMMMMMM who could that be!?

12 up, 2 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:18:42 AM

yes, i wonder who.

6 up, 0 down

___________
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 6:13:38 AM

god that is stupid!
how can assassins creed 2 have multilayer?
who would you play as?
you cant have 30 ezios running arround trying to kill each other, and having one ezio and the others as guards would be unfair because of all the gadgets he has at his disposal.

thats what i said to my cuz the other day, the thing i hate most about games these days.
the fans are making the games, not the developers.
prime example would be uncharted did not have MP, fans bitched so uncharted 2 got MP.
another example, assassins creed and the assassination videos once you kill a target, fans complained there too long.
so they removed it in assassins creed 2 :(
THAT WAS THE BEST PART!
your enemies explaining why they did what they did, and adding, explaining the storyline.
now in AC2 its so short and basically tells you nothing.

DEVELOPERS SHOULD BE MAKING GAMES, NOT THE FANS!

9 up, 1 down

SvenMD
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 7:56:23 AM

WOW - the poster formerly known as "your name here" actually said something useful.

8 up, 2 down

SnipeySnake
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:32:51 PM
Reply

I find online games boring because you basically do the same thing on and on. LBP changes that.

8 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:38:39 PM

Too be honest I never really got into LBP on PS3 but I've been really enjoing it on my PSP thx to a friend that got it for me. I'm not creative enough to help out the community but I enjoy playing their levels.

Way off topic maybe but I've been wanting a new Sim City for a long ass time.

5 up, 1 down

SnipeySnake
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:40:40 PM

lol my brother is play mw2 right next to me.

4 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:51:44 PM

Slap his hand!

6 up, 2 down

SnipeySnake
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:55:21 PM

face*

5 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:56:00 PM

I hope he isn't older/bigger you might have awakened a beast!

5 up, 1 down

SnipeySnake
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:12:03 PM

Im the oldest xD

6 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:23:07 AM

@LV,

LBP is a completely different game now than it was when released. The sheer quantity and variety of use generated levels makes the original game look almost plain by comparison. You should give the Phat PS3 version a chance.

11 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:33:17 AM

Highlander,

I'll check it out again. The PSP version has been a blast thus far. I feel guilty not contributing to the community but I think it's for the best. With my mind...well you know.

Btw enjoy your down vote.

5 up, 0 down

fluffer nutter
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:07:43 AM

I got LBP last year on release day and I am still playing it. My kids too. I have the PSP version and it is great, but it has a distinctively different vibe to it. Even though they share the same name, and many of the same mechanics, the levels make it feel very different. I kind of wish some of the ideas and expressions from the PSP game are added to the PS3 version, eventually. It'd be a nice little slice of cheese.

1 up, 0 down

Jed
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:48:13 PM
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I'm in the single player crowd, but I do enjoy some online every once in a while: Halo 3, Resistance 2, Killzone, and Uncharted 2.

The thing that really tics me off is how everybody is trying to replicate the online experience from those games. With all their focus on making a good multiplayer they botch the single player campaign, and often the multiplayer also suffers.

I honestly thought the multiplayer for Uncharted would be crap, and that the rest of the game would suffer. (Thank God it didn't). But that is one of the rare instances when both the single and multiplayer were really good. I have not played Modern Warfare 2, but I've heard that the campaign was lacking.

You are right about the people that only play online spend much more time on one or two games. A good friend of mine only plays Halo 3 and WoW

2 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:51:09 PM

Imagine what would have happened to Uncharted 2 if it had to have a MP AND was a multiplat that had fit on a DVD. It woulda brought the suck.

2 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:55:31 PM

I with co-op would get the hell away from console games. I'm tired of levels/storylines being molded around the idea that someone else is playing with me (RE5).

1 up, 5 down

SnipeySnake
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:19:35 PM

I like co-op games that make the 2nd player some kind of shadow or something that has nothing to do with the story. Like a little helper that can do exactly what you can do. (ex. devil may cry 3 when you use the doppelganger class, click start on the other controller and yeah.)

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:22:03 PM

Good point snake. It can done be done correctly but too many times it just pisses me off and makes me wonder why I'm even playing the game for a single player experience when it's pretty obvious the developer is trying to force me to playing online.

2 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:48:38 PM
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One thing I have noticed for sure is that people who are obsessed with online multiplayer lag behind -way behind. They haven't even heard of huge titles with great stories coming out, they are stuck in a graphics timewarp and think things like MW2 and L4D2 have cutting edge graphics.

I rarely play online because I'm too wrapped up in awesome single player campaigns. Always looking for another story, I find MP rather vacuous.

4 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:54:08 PM

To be fair the source engine (from 2004) still looks pretty damn good compared to what's out there now. Watching 100 zombies explode into peices from a pipebomb is a blast (get it).

I'm with you on the story, I'm looking forward to FFXIII sooooooooooooooooo much.

2 up, 1 down

godsman
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:56:28 PM

I know.

One thing I don't like about multiplayer games is that they tend to lose value over time, cause less people from Uncharted 2 will be online 2 years from now. If i buy Uncharted 1, 5 years after it's release, it still has it's 100% value because it only has single players experience.

2 up, 0 down

godsman
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 10:49:51 PM
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This is sad because its true. Multiplayer games are the ones that sell the most. It's much easier to develop, cause it's a short game that can be played repeatedly.

When your friend buys it, you will buy it too just to versus him. As opposed to single player games, people buy it, then lend it to their friends. Right off the bat, a multiplayer game has the advantage in doubling, tripling, even quadrupling the sales of single player games. This gives developers incentives to make even more multiplayer games and which in return builds even greater publicity and interest in these genres.

3 up, 0 down

hellish_devil
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:02:36 PM
Reply

Multiplayer should be considered a feature, not the real game

5 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:08:18 PM

Unless the game is a multiplayer game. As long as the developer sells a game as a multiplayer experience with a single player included as a form of training than I'm okay with the lack of a solid single player experience. Just don't trick people into paying for a single player game and ending up with a game that clearly is riding on the multiplayer.

4 up, 1 down

Jed
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:17:24 PM

Damn stright

0 up, 0 down

MyWorstNightmar
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:20:56 PM

Hmmmmmm....wonder how MAG will turn out. If I understand correctly, there is ZERO single player campaign.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:23:24 PM

Nightmar, read my post than give me a thumb up.

Thanks

or endline or whatever that assclown puts after his rants.

1 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:14:48 AM

I do remember hearing that they planned on putting a SP in MAG, but then that snippet of info disappeared. I don't know which it'll be, but at least that game is CLEARLY for the MP and no one with a brain will be duped into buying it that doesn't have proper internet capabilities.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:20:24 AM

Ben bought L4D2...

::cowers::

0 up, 0 down

jaybiv
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:11:43 PM
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Blame a lot of this on the MP leaderboards, and cats wanting to show the world how good they are. Most of these guys don't want to lose their "place" on the boards so they have to play relentlessly.

I guess you can call me a tweener. I love playing the single player campaigns, but I also love playing against a group of people. With that, I have to spend more time on MP just to keep up and keep it enjoyable for me.

Last edited by jaybiv on 1/3/2010 11:12:28 PM

1 up, 0 down

mackid1993
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:14:56 PM
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I guess I'm in the minority. I love MW2 online, yet I still enjoy single player and a good story. I plan on buying Heavy Rain and God of War too. I also really enjoyed MW2's single player as much as U2AT's. I love the characters in both and I found the stories to be intriguing, both in different ways.

2 up, 0 down

www
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 6:13:42 AM

Same here, I'm getting all the Heavy Rains and others also. Honestly I loved SP better than MP but now I like'em both. No way am I going to play MW2 for the rest of the year. I already stopped playing it after these stupid updates.

0 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 10:31:18 AM

You are not alone, dude. I too find mw2 to be a blast online (and find the mw2-bashing on this site to be *weird*, no less), and still love my single player games. At the same time I do think Ben has a point, it seems like a split is about to appear amongst the console crowd (the split has been there for ages on the PC). And on this site it seems like the widespread opinion is that the ones that play their games alone are the only "real" gamers. *sigh*

1 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:23:08 PM
Reply

Multiplayer doesnt hurt gaming. It has ENCHANCED gaming 1000 fold. Multiplayer DOES hurt SOLO games but then again some people despise MULTIPLAYER. But the bottem line is that times change. Multiplayer IS the NOW and FUTURE of gaming. Period. But there will always be room for SOLO GAMES.

Numbers dont lie, and the millions who bought MW2 prove it.

Want to know why some people bought Uncharted 2? Because Naughty Dog put Multiplayer in Uncharted 2. IF it wasnt for Multiplayer the game wouldnt have sold as much as it did ........ which pales in comparison to MW2.

Look, alot of people are VERY FRUGLE with their money. They have CHILDREN AND MATES to care for. This might mean travel ball on weekends for little Timmy and basketball for Mary. It means buying groceries and paying the house bills and saving for the future or going out on dates. There are a whole host of REAL LIFE AREAS that requires time and money and doesnt permit them to pay 65 bucks a month for a SOLO GAME they dont have time to play. But they WILL pay 55 for a SUPER MULTIPLAYER EVERYONE LOVES TO PLAY and can play it with friends anytime they chose and not have to travel over thier houses to play with. In other words, THEY GET THIER MONEYS WORTH.

IMO the solo game will never die. They will always have a place here.

Is this another whine on why MW2 destroyed UC 2? MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I think Naughty Dog needs to learn quickly, 3rd person shooters suck. FPS all the way!

Buy MW2 TODAY!!

LMAO!!!

End of Line.

4 up, 21 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:24:42 PM

Just so you know I didn't read a damn thing you wrote. Keep up the good work dickhole!

13 up, 2 down

johnld
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:51:10 PM

hahaha, people only bought uncharted 2 because of multiplayer. What a moron. people bought modern warfare 2 because of multiplayer. I know a lot of people who bought MW2 and havent finished the single player yet. The real reason uncharted 2 sold a lot of copies is that sony marketed the hell out of it compared to their other games, the game is amazing, and word of mouth advertizing from people who actually play games, apparently you are excluded from this group.

just a suggestion for you, try to get your head out of your ass and you'll realize that there are other games that are much better than MW2, killzone 2 is head and shoulder over MW2. I beat MW2 100% for spec ops, single player, and multiplayer. I got bored playing multiplayer on MW2 because of all the idiots playing that dont know what they're doing. If you're after kills, just stay in team deathmatch and dont even bother objective type game modes.

8 up, 0 down

Hezzron
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:55:12 PM

@Drithe -- First off, let me say I enjoy your comments. You have the "bull in a china shop" effect down pat here.

I agree with most of what you said except for "3rd person shooters suck" and U2 selling more due to MP. There's only about 5000 people playing it online at any given time that I've seen, so that's obviously not the draw.

6 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:56:38 PM

It was funny for a while Drithe, but now I think you can't post anything else.

Time to go away for a while.

12 up, 0 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:20:04 AM

Why not take your copy of MW2 and marry it?

I mean really.

4 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:31:20 AM

When it gets really cold outside and windy and I'm warm in my bed with the covers over me I like to think of Drithe under a bridge eating a trashbag of old coleslaw freezing his ass off.

13 up, 2 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:35:15 AM

@LV

You nailed it lol

5 up, 1 down

godsman
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:51:44 AM

By YOUR theory, the real future of gaming is actually Wii Fit and wii motion control. They completely destroyed MW2 and multiplayer. Think about what you say before typing that long essay of yours.

7 up, 1 down

Jawknee
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:58:15 AM

Be gone.

6 up, 0 down

fluffer nutter
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:13:15 AM

Wait a minute. Limited thinks of Drithe when he's in bed? That's pretty disturbing.

11 up, 0 down

Dancemachine55
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 5:21:55 AM

Wii Play is the biggest selling game next to Modern Warfare 2, doesn't make it good or better. And it isn't online either!!!

1 up, 0 down

___________
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 6:18:38 AM

MP the future of gaming?
in that case my PS3, PSP and PC are going on ebay.
who wants to start the bidding?
ive skipped heaps of games because there online only like warhawk, MGS online, syphon filter spec ops, and im not going to buy MAG or FFIV.

6 up, 2 down

SnipeySnake
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 5:31:26 PM

*loads shotgun*

1 up, 0 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 8:53:48 PM

"SUPER MULTIPLAYER EVERYONE LOVES TO PLAY"

Except for the part about everyone liking it

Put the bong down, and step away from the computer.

1 up, 0 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 8:57:10 PM

@Damcemachine

I dont count wii play as a best seller because it comes with every console.

1 up, 0 down

Lex Luthor
Monday, January 11, 2010 @ 7:09:07 PM

@Drithe...

You're just trolling. Please go away and the rest, stop feeding him.

@LV

Hilarious stuff!!!

0 up, 0 down

Buckeyestar
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:37:23 PM
Reply

One big problem I have with multiplayer is also that all these leaderboards and stats devolve it into nothing more than a "mine is bigger than yours" attitude. It's less about actual fun and more about piling up numbers.

I am drawn to characters and stories, which is why I detest FPS games. I need to see my character to connect with them, and then have them actually HAVE a personality along with the story. THEN I will truly enjoy a game. Finishing the year with UC2, AC2, Batman:AA, and GoW collection filled my gaming hours. And the likes of Bayonetta, Darksiders, Dante's Inferno, Heavy Rain, God of War 3 and Final Fantasy 13 will eat up even more of my time in 2010.

2 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:41:50 PM

I used to be in CAL league play in Counterstrike back in the day and it was an addiction. It no longer was about entertaintment, it became a chore and all about the KDR. You nailed it, FPS often just break down to 2 key numbers kills and deaths. Thankfully there have been plenty of SP games to keep things interesting. A good story always beats the best KDR.

2 up, 1 down

johnld
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:52:19 PM

the only problem i see with leaderboards is all the people who hack it. the reason i dont care about it anymore.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:11:07 AM

Ohhh the long nights I spent in PC cafes and in front of my computer playing counter strike. Those were the days.

1 up, 0 down

Robochic
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:38:43 PM
Reply

I agree with you Ben 100% my husband if not for me would be missing out on so many great games that have been released and soon to be released games, he is so addicted to WOW I can't see why?

I can't wait for Heavy rain but when I talk to people about it they're like whats that, its so sad to see some of these great games coming out being second fiddle to MMO's. I have nothing against MMOs just wish I had friends to talk to about other than that.

3 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:44:25 PM

The PS3 crowd sometimes pisses me off. The 360 gets bombarded with the same ole same ole (ODST) and the 360 crowd eat it up. We PS3 players get treated to a variety KZ2/UC2 and their sales while good are nothing spectacular given the PS3 user base. Heavy Rain looks amazing and it's sad to see how many are not informed.

I've played the developers previous games and they know how to make a game seem like reality.

6 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:19:18 AM

Tell me about it Limited, I mean with 20 million odd PS3s out there, Uncharted 2 should have sold at least 10 million. Hell it everyone with a PS3 should own the damn thing but they are probably busy in some MP addiction to FPS.

2 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:24:03 AM

It really makes me wonder how many bought a PS3 for the blu-ray and media applications. It's great that the PS3 is selling but I just wish the software was supported more.

4 up, 1 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:26:15 AM

Seriously, I mean if your a PS3 owner, U2 should've been immediately on your list, but unfortunately there either smashing their controller on the ground, yelling at their mom for interrupting them, or my personal favorite, crying and whining to tv as if the it were shrink.

Gotta love online huh?

3 up, 3 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:31:14 AM

@LV, that 360 crowd who lap up ODST and mW2 are exactly the people that are killing creativity. They move like a swarm of locusts from one game to another. When the swarm's group mind locks onto a new 'host' the swarm leaps to the new game. Look at MW2, it's sales numbers were outrageous. Why? Because all the locusts already playing Modern Warfare jumped to the new host body, and brought some new friends with them. Friends who wanted to join in with the feeding frenzy of the swarm.

I bet you could model the behavior of the audience of MW2 or Halo on the behavior of insects that swarm.

I know that it means that sales of PS3 games may disappoint in comparison, but I don't think it's fair or healthy to make that comparison.

Perhaps I should have said hive instead of swarm, it's like there is a hive mind in control of the group of gamers stuck on MW2 and games like it....

:D

Last edited by Highlander on 1/4/2010 12:34:14 AM

7 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:37:44 AM

The difference is the PS3 user base is thought of as older and more intelligent when it comes to choosing games. Honestly, someone that forks over 600 dollars for a system is going to be a little more choosey about their gaming lineup than someone that paid 300. Even now a PS3 is 300 and a 360 can be found for fewer than 200. I understand that the 360 crowd's choices in gaming are hurting creativity (can you imagine how low the sales would be for Heavy Rain if it was a 360 exclusive).

The PS3 user base needs to be more vocal and productive if we're going to continue to see the trends established on the PS3 thus far. I'm buying Heavy Rain day one and I expect the rest of you to do so as well.

6 up, 0 down

godsman
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:57:19 AM

@TheHighlander

That swarm metaphor is exactly what I believe the gamers with shooters are like. Developers make "New" IP's with new game mechanics or RPG element to it and everyone "swarm" over like its the next best thing.

PS3 may not sell 10 million of one genre of games, but they sell 2-3 million for a large diversity of games each. Gamers have a choice of what to play instead of shooters, shooters, and more shooters.

3 up, 0 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:04:24 PM

@HighLander

I want to personally thank you for one of, if not THE most accurate comments ever.

I will now create thousands of PSXE accounts so you will have the most thumbs up possible.

1 up, 0 down

SirLoin of Beef
Thursday, January 07, 2010 @ 11:27:00 AM

@Highlander,

"I bet you could model the behavior of the audience of MW2 or Halo on the behavior of insects that swarm."

Just for clarification's sake, not everyone who likes playing the Halo games falls into this mindset. I've played all of the FPS Halo games, both SP and MP, and like playing them, and also love a good single-player experience. UC2 is, quite frankly, one of the best games I've ever played because I found its story riveting and the game play well-executed. Heck, even on the 360 I have the most fun with the single player games such as Dead Space, Oblivion, BioShock, Fable II, etc. Multiplayer games are only fun, to me, when I can set up something with friends.

I say this because there's a tendency on this board that if you happen to like MS's games, especially those of the Halo series, you're looked at as some kind of immature, mindless moron and the like. Yes, the 360 does have a fair share of morons that play (and sadly, most of them play online); we're all not like that, though.

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:46:18 PM
Reply

@Drithe,
Just curious, what sport is travel ball???

0 up, 0 down

___________
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:47:22 PM
Reply

hurting games that have MP?
no of course not!
hurting games that have MP?
well, quite obviously.
but than thats arguable because assassins creed 2 does not have MP and thats flying off the shelf.
batman AA does not have MP and thats not struggling to sell well either.

sales are a peculiar thing, something ill never understand, and never be able to explain.
you would think the best games would sell better than the crappy games, but you would think wrong.

funny how people are always bitching how theres so much piracy on the 360, but than the 360 version of games always sell better than the ps3 version.
well,99.99% of the time.

0 up, 2 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:06:06 PM

I think you made a typo

1 up, 0 down

___________
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 @ 5:43:23 AM

theres a first for everything.

0 up, 0 down

Cholo Gamer
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:48:07 PM
Reply

Yeah this is true all the people at my school talk about is MW2. Nuke this, care package that blah blah blah.

2 up, 0 down

Banky A
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:58:11 AM

Haha care package that
+1 thumb

2 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:49:40 PM
Reply

@Biker Saint.

Travel ball is a term used for USSSA BASEBALL that is played on WEEKENDS ONLY or any other form of WEEKEND baseball. Well it is also used for basketball and girls softball as well. These kind of events are for kids that are looking to expand thier horizons in these particular sports, or other sports for that matter.

End of Line.

2 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:00:08 AM

@Drithe,
OK, thanks.
Sounds like what we call Little League in the US, but here it's played on any day during the week for the young ones

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fluffer nutter
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:19:46 AM

No, we call basketball, girl's softball, and baseball travel ball here in the U.S. If you haven't heard of it then you probably weren't exposed to it early on. I started traveling and playing basketball when I was 11 years old, going to tournaments all over the state. It was great fun and a great way to improve on the fundamentals of the sport. My niece is currently traveling all over the country playing softball and even though she's a freshman in high school, has many universities looking into scooping her up.

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:54:03 PM
Reply

As a single-player only guy, I hate buying a used game & finding out that it's only for online play, or finding that it has a short ass single mode, but with a huge multi-player mode.

Luckily I still need it for completing my collections, or I'd be mighty pissed off otherwise.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:20:43 AM

Do you plan to own every single game some day?

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:22:18 AM

I think he should open up a gaming rental service. I bet he has a ton of classics many have never played but would pay to play.

0 up, 1 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:48:22 AM

@BikerSaint

No new information about that copy of ICO, my friend should be coming in on Tuesday so i'll keep you posted.

All i know is, if the world ever heads into an era like seen in the movies or I, Robot or Surrogates, we'll be the ones coming to BikerSaint haha

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:05:05 AM

If ever a university announces the creation of a real 'live' AI and has the complete stupidity to connection it to the Internet, you won't find me, I'll be off line for good. Cut the cord! It's the only way to be sure...

Skynet isn't fiction, it's the product of a fertile mind and a future echo caused by a temporal paradox in the near future!

</tinfoil hat mode>

4 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:08:15 AM

When Skynet comes about I'm going to gladly let a cute robot eat my brains.

1 up, 0 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:10:02 AM

lets just hope theres that one asteroid.

Last edited by to_far_apart on 1/4/2010 1:11:11 AM

0 up, 0 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:19:19 AM

just noticed the time i edited my comment:

Last edited by to_far_apart on 1/4/2010 1:11:11 AM

doesn't get much better then that lol

1 up, 0 down

dragonx_HD
Sunday, January 03, 2010 @ 11:59:02 PM
Reply

I think a guy at work said it best when I was recommending a game with a great story (cant remember what it was now) but he said "FK the story, I just want to shoot people" If thats really what some people only want to do I cant really argue with that. We are just two different animals. I can say this: The day the single player dies, is the day I am no longer a gamer..... a sad day indeed.

Last edited by dragonx_HD on 1/4/2010 12:02:27 AM

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:22:53 AM

Yeah I hesitate to call those people gamers myself. Not that I'm all elite and sh*t but as an entertainment medium, there is just so much more there for the taking that I am befuddled by those who don't embrace it. It would be like only ever seeing action movies and never taking in a comedy or drama or thriller.

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 8:56:34 PM

@to_far_apart,
Thanks for keeping me updated, I appreciate it.

As for when the I-Robots(or any other pieces of hell's little technical glitcher demons) begin starting their march to take over the world, then all I can say is....
I sure hope the rest of you are all stored up on frequency and computer disruptor's, have tons of stockpiled food goods & plenty of 55 gallon barrels of safe drinking water, kept your ammo dry, all weapons & big-boomers on ready mode. Then start blasting away at any frigging thing that comes within a 500 yard range of your blast-proof concrete bunker out in the wilderness.....I know I'm ready!!!!

"LOCK & LOAD, MOTHERFLOCKERS"

0 up, 0 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:13:37 PM

@BikerSaint

I was half way through your comment and I thought, "I should reply with LOCK AND LOAD, that would be awesome!"

Then I finished reading and you had already done it. Thanks for crushing my dreams.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:03:49 AM
Reply

I agree with you Ben, I think this is hurting the industry. It's kind of a reprise on the theme from 2009 for me.

The craze for FPS games was soon followed by the craze for multi-player online. Massive games like MW2 drain gaming hours from potential customers for other games. It's no wonder Microsoft is so keep to charge $50 a year for XBL, that way they can monetize this trend. Sony on the other hand is not doing that since we play for free. As was considered in a recent article here, Sony and PS3 is really a better fit for single player games, and it really does show

I'm not dead set against multi-player, but as someone at the beginning of this discussion pointed out There are people who play multi-player games exclusively. They're like chain smokers going through cigarettes, starting the next from the remaining embers of the last. I like a limited multi-player environment, but let's face it, are you playing Uncharted 2 for the multi-player? Or a chance to watch chloe running? Or even a chance to play through an engaging story with complex characters?

There have been games (Soul Calibur for instance) where the single player story mode was all but omitted and the time/resource was allocated to multi-player online. Remember that Soul Calibur is a real time fighting game, who in their right mind thinks that a game that demands essentially real time control input will work well over a laggy Internet?

Devs should leave the multi-player to afterthough...

5 up, 2 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:11:55 AM

Finally! Highlander a guy that posts a ton at once but actually has some substance.

I think the problem is SP heavy developers are compromising their work assuming MP is needed to sell the product. I say it a lot but the co-op in RE5 really killed it for me. I didn't like the storyline (ya I know it's RE so what) and the setting was bla but the entire time I felt like the developer was trying to shove me into going online with the damn game.

I didn't forget you gave me a thumb down :)

2 up, 2 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:21:30 AM

I agree with both of you

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:24:54 AM

@LV welcome to the party - thumbs down included...

I'm very worried that developers compromising and including MP components at the expense of story or campaign in the single player part will hurt the quality of games we see, and that will hurt the industry.

5 up, 1 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:26:50 AM

Exactly what i think highlander

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:28:58 AM

Is it thumb down or thumbs down. You're only giving me one thumb down. I really want to know, I've already been corrected earlier for an obvious goof on my part concerning "I could care less" instead of "I couldn't care less".

BTW back at ya on the thumb/thumbs down.

3 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:13:17 AM
Reply

Best multiplayer game ever made? Contra. Gotta have two guys with the 30 Rest trick and then just go to town. 'Cept I don't like bein the red guy :)

2 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:20:56 AM

No way, Smash Tv!

1 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:23:45 AM

Smash TV was tasty, but I still loves me some Contra. It's really too bad they never got that game out of the dark ages properly.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:25:58 AM

Contra was my bi*** once I saved up for a turbo button controller. I agree on it being a great game that unfortunately never made a successful jump past the 16bit era.

0 up, 0 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:27:05 AM

Contra was my b-itch once I saved up for a turbo button controller. I agree on it being a great game that unfortunately never made a successful jump past the 16bit era.

Edit* Ya that's right, female dog is not allowed but cum is. sayyyyyy what?!

Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 1/4/2010 12:27:17 AM

1 up, 1 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:30:19 AM

I wasn't even a big fan of the 16bit attempts, I just loved the old 8 bit :)

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fluffer nutter
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:24:20 AM

I wore out my NES Max controller playing Contra. That game was the sh*t! That controller was awesome too. It had the disc for the d-pad and having rounded corners made the controller a much better alternative to the standard NES controller. Damn rectangle.

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SvenMD
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 8:12:35 AM

Contra is the jam. More co-op than multiplayer though. But you HAD to have the Konami code. But I always hated it when your friend started to die too much and then they stole your damn lives...

One of the highlights of my life - beating Contra with my wife in an hour....awesome.

BTW - I thought the NES Max controller blew. I hated that stupid disc thing that just moved all around EXCEPT for the one direction you wanted to go.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 10:30:53 AM

"One of the highlights of my life - beating Contra with my wife in an hour....awesome."

WIN.

2 up, 0 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:18:41 PM

@ SVEN

sounds like the D-pad on the 360 controller

2 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:14:37 AM
Reply

The only game i ever spent time online with is KZ2. Most other online games just feel too repetitive, at least KZ2 mixed it up a little. I still got bored fast though.

Its sad that single-player games arent as popular as multi-player games. Ratchet and Clank is amazing, and adding an online aspect wouldnt make it any better, probably worse seeing as they would have to give up development time for it.

Even big online games like MW2 end up having a crappy campaign. The campaign in MW2 was just bad compared to MW1. 'Tis a shame. Nobody complained that Mario didnt have multiplayer.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:25:04 AM

The only thing KZ2 online needed to be perfect was a coop mode like in Resistance 2. R2 online is one that I like and can have fun with from time to time.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/4/2010 12:25:11 AM

2 up, 0 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:20:16 PM

I loved the online co-op in R2. I think I'm going to start me a session soon.

0 up, 0 down

Hezzron
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:24:56 AM
Reply

Well I'm not sure about the idea that "battle lines are being drawn: war is being waged" between MP and SP gamers. LOL! If so, then I must be suffering some kind of internal conflict! I know that was probably used to stir up the comments here.

I play both SP and MP. I don't put that much thought into it, it's just a matter of what I'm in the mood for. I've played and finished most of the SP games listed in the article. I've also logged a good amount of time playing games online.

I think some older gamers (like me), who might be stuck in their ways, are actually AFRAID of MP. Maybe they feel like they're gonna be embarrassed in front of a "crowd" if they're no good. I used to feel a bit intimidated taking my gaming skills online, but now I actually get the craving for it.

There's a certain thrill that comes with knowing you're playing against live opponents. If you happen to stink it up online, its no biggie, no ones gonna reach out of the TV and slap you.....besides, it seems you can always change rooms and find some players worse than you.

Last edited by Hezzron on 1/4/2010 12:26:42 AM

5 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:29:21 AM

I think there is something to the battle lines theory (as evinced by the probability that this article was sparked in part due to some lively debate in the forums between Ben and some Valve fanatics)

There really is a camp of people that will defend their online MP to the death and honestly don't give a rip about the game having a good SP. Then you have us guys around 30 who really could care less about MP and consider it a neat feature or addition that may extend the fun of the game. If you need evidence look at anyone who ever said a game was lacking because it didn't have MP. Or someone who scored it lower in a review because there was no MP.

2 up, 0 down

Hezzron
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:09:40 AM

Also, I do believe the lack of MP does hurt game sales now. It's not due so much to MW2's success, but rather due to the "Gamestop Effect".

Games that have SP only get traded in much faster. The same copy that sold "new" can be recycled many times over through these secondhand stores.

Developers are putting in MP now in hopes of getting people to hang onto the game and generate more "new" sales.

5 up, 0 down

Alienange
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:43:48 PM

@ hezzron73 - What you have written here is brilliance. "Gamestop effect" LMAO! In fact, many a developer has admitted just that.

2 up, 0 down

Deleted User
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:33:25 AM
Reply

@Bikersaint.

What I describe to you is in AMERICA!! Most kids that play travel ball play Little league. Infact all those kids that win in the Little League world series? THEY PLAY TRAVEL BALL TOO! It is why they are so good.

End of Line.

0 up, 1 down

LimitedVertigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:38:36 AM

Before you get banned do you have any last words? I'm assuming just "End of Line".

5 up, 1 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:41:01 AM

Maybe he'll announce his engagement to MW2?

5 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:12:21 AM

Pftahaha, I can always count on you LimitedVertigo to give me my bedtime laughs.

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:14:08 AM

Travel ball is simply hyper competitive little league. It's the kind of little league where the parents with money pay for private coaching etc, and the 'talented' kids play and the less talented kids play waterboy. You know all the ugly excess of the over-pushy sports parent with money? The kind that is trying to live their life through their children? That's what you'll find in travel ball.

The parents and organizers take it as seriously as the pro's do, unfortunately the kids get dragged in and are basically grist for the mill.

Last edited by Highlander on 1/4/2010 1:15:08 AM

2 up, 0 down

fluffer nutter
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:27:38 AM

Although, TheHighlander is very correct that you'll find those parents in those type of "leagues", you will also find those that know their kids really are that good and want to give them the chance to follow their dreams. I know plenty of people that got full rides; college paid for, and this allowed them to get started in a career that now has them enjoying life with little stress.

3 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:33:06 AM

Wait, fluffer, little league got them good careers?

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 1/4/2010 1:35:33 AM

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:35:49 AM

@worlds, that's what I was getting at, it's highly competitive little league, but however you look at it, it's all just baseball.

0 up, 0 down

fluffer nutter
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:47:24 AM

Yeah, World. Playing sports, like baseball, got them full rides into universities and they ended up with careers after that. Some are still active in sports, others are out in the office world or running their own companies and hanging out with their families.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 2:20:26 AM

I never liked that whole thing where if you are good at sports you get a free ride through education.

1 up, 1 down

Fane1024
Saturday, January 09, 2010 @ 4:47:02 PM

One of my co-workers' kids just got scholarship offers (baseball team) thanks to "travel ball". I don't know if any are full rides, but any help paying for college is worth the weekend tournaments.

0 up, 0 down

johnld
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:55:27 AM
Reply

i love playing single player because when a story is good, it draws me in and keeps me entertained. multiplayer is good too once in a while especially when you're playing with people who knows what they're doing. unfortunately, the amount of decent matches on the ps3 is slowly decreasing especially in MW2. Im inclined to pick up a rapid fire controller at best buy just to piss them off. yeah, i was surprised to see it on the shelf. thought it was just a regular third party controller. i thought they didnt sell rapid fire controllers at retail stores anymore since the "online movement" began, at least this generation.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 10:45:49 AM

John,

Do those rapid fire controllers have an advantage these days? Don't most games limit the rate of fire?

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 8:08:26 PM

OK, thanks to "ALL" who replied on Travel ball.

I'm 57 & around the area growing up, we never called anything by that name. Also, when my daughter was in a school softball league (catcher) quite a ways back, I can't remember anyone mentioning travel ball either.
Seems to me to be more of a now-a-days thing they're calling it now, I'm guessing???
Hell, back in the day, times were pretty tight for most of us back then & I don't remember anyone doing any traveling sports other than just a bounce or two between just 2-3 schools close-by.

@World
Although I'm trying....there's just thousands & thousands of games already out there according to a few of my databases, & I have neither the money or years left on this ole soul-train to get every title for my collections. But I am doing what I can to at least get close, with a few 5-20 game bundles at a time, LOL.
Heck, although I've got more than 1400 games spanning to the SNES/Genesis era, I didn't actually start collecting until about 1/2 way through the PS1's life cycle, & I was so impressed with it, that the collecting bug bit my butt big-time.

Right now, my biggest single console collection stands(so far) at about 1/4th completed, and that one being only 535 games out of almost 2000 for the PS1.
Here's what I've got so far...
SNES(packed away w/list, so I don't remember amount, but only about 1-15 games for it).
Atari Jaguar 9 Discs, 25 Cartriges
Panasonic 3DO 45
Genesis 145
N64 78
Saturn 75
Dreamcast 48
**Gamecube 34**
**GameBoy Advance(GC's console attachment) 5**
Xbox 190
**360 50**
**PSP 20 Games & 6 Movies**
PS1 538
PS2 233
**PS3 60**
(FYI: I have only owned the systems marked with ** for 6 months or less. The PS3, GC, & GBA are only about 5 or 6 months old, and I just bought the 360 & my PSP's less than 2 months ago).

@LV,
I have many mint RPG's in my collections, but I just haven't been able to get immersed into their gameplay, even though I keep going back & trying again on numerous occasions.
BTW, I've seen some copies going for a pretty penny in the past(FF7, FF Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Parasite Eve, Etc), but I seriously doubt I'd ever sell any of mine.
If you want to check out what I've got, I've put almost all of my console & game lists in our forum here(just look in the proper section for each system listed). I Do need to update a few of the newer system's games list though, since I've bought about 30 games since my last update.

(Damn, this post must be way too long, it just gave me Carpel Tunnel & finger cramps)LOL

0 up, 0 down

Banky A
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:54:13 AM
Reply

Yes Ben, it just hurts so much.
Make the pain go away :(

*Crying*

0 up, 0 down

archs13
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 2:13:28 AM
Reply

i used to have a theory when i was playing killzone 2.. which is playing multiplayer a lot. i actually reached the second to the highest rank in killzone 2 without even touching the campaign story mode. but now, the trophies are a motivation to playing through story mode and single-player games.

i just want trophies dammit! but hey, if the multiplayer's really awesome then that's a great extra.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 10:47:14 AM

So you are thinking that if trophies are primarily associated with the Single player part of a game it will guide gamers to the single player campaign whether the multi-player is there or not?

I can see that working for a lot of 'trophy' hunters.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 2:32:48 AM
Reply

LOL, okay so my BFF bought MW2 recently and while this whole thing is going on tonight he just texted me and I quote "What the hell? I think I beat it. Gay." He isn't allowed to have the internet by law so he is screwed.

That pretty much sums it up.

4 up, 1 down

Snaaaake
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 3:02:14 AM
Reply

Not me that's for sure.

My main drive to play a game is the campaign or story mode.

Multiplayer comes later and it won't last me long.
I always rotate what I play.

I also don't get stuck on a single game for a very long time as I will definitely get bored of it months after purchase.

0 up, 0 down

Dancemachine55
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 5:19:14 AM
Reply

Played World of Warcraft for a year. Biggest waste of time and money to me. It was just hours of click this and go here.

After I cancelled my subscription, I haven't touched it in nearly 4 years. I pride myself with single player masterpieces like MGS4 and Uncharted 2. I have friends over and play Rock Band 2 or New Mario Bros. Wii (which is insanely fun with friends!!)

All in all, I think online only is a big hole on your wallet, it sucks a lot of time and money out of you and you get hardly anything from it in the end, even in terms of emotional highs or experiences.

I have no objections to developers adding online play to a kickass single player game. But I might not play an MMO again, unless I feel it offers an experience similar to a single player game and has no continuing fees.

Helps if my friends are playing it too, like EVE Online, but I can't afford it, and have bigger, better games to play like Bayonetta, Bioshock 2, God of War 3, Heavy Rain, Splinter Cell Conviction and Mass Effect 2.

Being a gamer is a double edged sword. Even my two jobs can hardly keep up with great game releases. DAMN YOU DEVELOPERS AND YOUR INCREDIBLE SKILLS!!!!! DAMN YOU TO HEEEEEEECK!!!!

0 up, 0 down

frostface
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 7:22:13 AM
Reply

When I'm gaming, most though not all times, I just want to get away from other people. I was/am (for 2more weeks) working in a very public orientated environment, so when I get home I tend to want to disconnect from that and single player games achieve that goal for me.
Also I'm not sure on this but, since the price drop on the ps3, or it's just kids buying MW2 (also questionable, where are the parents? They'll be the first to criticize the games when their kid does something bad, even though the kid shouldn't be playing an adult rated game) but the abuse and the idiocy that comes out on the in-game chat is getting worse.
I used to enjoy the online function and depending on the game I still do (I feel it's a different sort of person plays MW2 compared with BF:BC for example or Warhawk.)
Lately my hours have been absorbed with games like Dragons Age or Assassins Creed 2 and I every so often I'll venture back to Uncharted 2 and pick back up where I left off. The online multiplayer doesn't even factor into it.
I'm not very technically minded on these things but correct me if I'm wrong, if the games where built with just single player in mind, would the game play not last longer than the measly 5hr playthrough of a game split between online and single player? Also in vice versa, if the game was made with just multiplayer online, imagine how massive that game could be (I'm looking at you MAG).
So in short after all my rambling on, I agree with Ben, the games should and could be split. Gamers get better games imo and the companys who bring them out get to sell a single player and a multiplayer and maybe make more money for themselves, which I wouldn't begrudge if I got an immersive experience whether or not it was multiplayer or single player.

2 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 11:03:24 AM

The locust swarm that buys MW2 is made up of a wide section of gamers, many of who have the maturity of shoe laces. Whatever their age, many of them will come across as kids.

3 up, 1 down

JackC8
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 7:25:31 AM
Reply

I almost never play online. There are so many great games to play, I've barely got time to get through the single player campaign of most of them. If I were to spend more hours with the online, I'd have to skip half of them.

I don't get the appeal of online anyway. In a game, you've got characters, a story, exploration, boss battles, maybe some platforming - all kinds of stuff. With online, you've got a shooter. Nothing more. That would bore the living hell out of me.

4 up, 3 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 10:28:34 AM

I'm with you. Never got the appeal, either. Repetitive and boring as all HELL.

4 up, 3 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 11:07:30 AM

That's the thing to me that I don't get. I understand this whole idea that a real living opponent is more flexible than AI, but in reality in any game map there are a limited number of options and most players make the same mistakes time and again. So an experienced player can exploit that and generally speaking treat inexperienced players the same way they treat the AI - dispatch them within seconds.

It's the same thing time after time, it's a grind and that gets boring - or at least it should.

Single player games offer all the nuances that the creators of the game and the writers of the script/story could pack in. In some games like RPGs the complete-ists can have their way collecting everything, and in GT like games of course you want ever car and upgrade. To an extent this can become a grind as well, but with the Multi-player game it's a grind from start to finish and unless you have un-naturally quick reflexes once the game's regular players have leveled up you're toast.

5 up, 1 down

Silent_J
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 8:51:09 AM
Reply

i play alot on MW2 online but im not glued to it like others .I just finish Uncharted 2 ,beautiful unbelievable game and Im now playing batman AA .When Heavy Rain comes out im probably gonna wait for the reviews since it just barely spark an interest for me .God of War 3 is must buy , already preordered it.

0 up, 0 down

D1g1tal5torm
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:44:55 AM
Reply

to far apart summed this whole situ in his first para.

With net access being available to the majority of gamers, the online portion of a game is always going to garner at least if not more interest as it's where the longevity of a game resides.

It's akin to say reading a book or playing chess.

The book is always going to be the same, no matter what. A game of chess, if different pretty much each time due to different players, different scenarios.

So it's logical the sp's are going to be hit. People want value for money.

Therefore devs have to better stories, more immersive gameplay and an all round superior product to a combined sp/mp game.

Most sps dont. With uc2 now being the benchmark for sp's, (I know it has mp as well!) in terms of story, graphics etc. I only see Heavy rain as a sure fire purchase in my book.

NB: Dead space is another good example.

Last edited by D1g1tal5torm on 1/4/2010 9:46:20 AM

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 11:20:00 AM

You are wrong, so very wrong, and here is the reason why. When you read a book, the entire thing takes place in your head. Your imagination creates the images, the settings, the voices the characters, how you feel about them, any emotional connection you feel to the story of characters and so on. A good single player game does some or all of this too. It is like reading a novel, your imagination makes your personal experience of the game different from another player's experience. Not only that but even if you go back and replay it, the replay isn't the same as the initial play through because you know things about the characters and setting now and it alters your perceptions of the game, setting, story and characters.

Chess is different to Multi-player because it is a one on one experience and there are a practically infinite number of possible move combinations for victory. Both players have the same tools, the same weapons and a level playing field. In most multi-player games there is one rocket launcher, one double barreled shotgun and one tank, so a given player can get the upper hand whether they have the skill or not. Chess is like multi-player games in some respects though because a player who is very good can generally dispatch lesser rivals quickly and with ease using a certain set of moves because most inexperienced players react in a predictable manner. So the experienced chess player plays certain moves to determine whether the player will react as expected and then goes in for the kill. There are books devoted to standard openings in chess. If you don't know the standard openings, the chances are that you will fall victim to someone who does.

With regard to games, you're talking about MP games as value for money. I don't buy into the repetitive game play of a Multi-Player game as value for money. If that was the case then what reason would anyone have for moving from MW1 to MW2? the campaign mode certainly isn't the reason, so what is? If people want value for money, why spend another $60 on MW2 for what is essentially the same game play as MW1?

Last edited by Highlander on 1/4/2010 11:37:51 AM

5 up, 2 down

to_far_apart
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 11:53:06 AM

Totally agree with you Highlander.

These developers are so fixated on this online component in gaming, the develop solely for online gameplay (ie WoW) why bother making a lacluster campaign? Just market, advertise, and sell the game as an online experience.

Rather people cna be so ignorant that they're getting robbed by their very own developer whom the cherish if you coem to think about it. MW1 is the same thing as MW2, online has no differences, except minimal extras, why not keep MW running and add content to that then create MW2, when in essence they're not creating a game for an imaginative, unique solo experience, rather they're really just selling people an online game, and nothing that hasn't been been done either.

For those planning to buy the game, think about it. Is it really necessary to spend $60, when MW is really, in essence, the sam thing?

Plus, honestly, online to me is a waste of time. I know people love it, I'm not putting anyone down, because in the ends, it's what everyone likes, that's all. But really, most online games are shooters, and i'd die from boredom honestly. The thing with a campaign, it's just like a movie; scripting, scenery, story telling, interactiveness, gameplay, etc. It invites you in a world, and you soon begin to become part of that world.

@Highlander

Great analogy about the book. No better way to say it!

Last edited by to_far_apart on 1/4/2010 11:53:26 AM

2 up, 3 down

D1g1tal5torm
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 2:35:08 PM

HLdr - you miss my point, a book is generally speaking only read once; chess is played multiple times. Furthermore, it's not about many people you play against, it's that you have an opponent.

As for mp providing me with another challenge to a game, then yes, I feel it provides me with value for money.

Dunno where the mw2 ref came from but for £25? It's worth a punt compared to the a lot of tripe that retails for £40.

As for the movie element, you hit the nail on the head and that's why, to me, mp is enjoyable. It's not scripted. It's fluid, dynamic, evolving.

It's pitting you against another played rather than a scenario.

This is why I mention in my original post - HR is my only sure fire sp purchase.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 5:24:20 PM

I didn't miss your point at all. Many avid readers have favorite novels that they come back to time and again. People don't generally read a book once and then throw it away. I understood the point you were making, but I don't agree with your conclusion.

Open world multi-player games allow you to experience an 'adventure' and story of your own making - yes, but just like role playing games with dice and character sheets you are limited by the scenarios that have been created for you, or you are limited to a number of generic, pre-determined scenarios for shorter missions. Such predetermined scenarios soon become repetitive.

On consoles by far the most played multi-player games are shooters, and shooters are nothing like chess they area grind and offer no story value at all. There is no making up your own story when all you are doing is playing match after match of blowing up continually spawning bad guys or repeatedly respawning opponents.

Having an opponent is vastly over rated when many such opponents are dolts or foul mouthed, abusive little urchins who have no interest in playing cooperatively or doing anything except exploiting every cheesy attack and glitch in the game.

2 up, 0 down

MaximusArcher
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 7:47:07 PM

How many same novels do you read back to back, come on stop being pedantic.

0 up, 4 down

MaximusArcher
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 7:56:36 PM

And you're burying your head in the sand to mp.
It's valid, it's active and it's propelling the gaming industry at the moment.

You may not enjoy it and it may be to the detriment of sp but there's a reason games nearly always have an online portion...

...because it's popular. Why is it popular - because it's fun. The numbers don't lie.

I find this highbrow attitude against mp a bit trite.

0 up, 3 down

Highlander
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 11:34:11 PM

@MaximusArcher

With one question you destroyed all respect I would have given you.

"How many same novels do you read back to back, come on stop being pedantic. "

As for burying my head in the sand on MP games, I'll thank you not to make snap judgments about my gaming habits or what games I play/don't play or have played/not played. I stand by my comments both with regard to multi-player games and with regard to the re-reading of novels being analogous to replaying of games with an engrossing single player story/campaign.

As for trite, both of your comments meet that criteria in abundance. In what way are multi-player games propelling the industry forwards? In terms of unit sales of a single game? They sure as hell aren't propelling it in terms of game quality, artistry, story or character.

There are millions of gamers suckling daily at the teat of MW2 and many of them will continue to do so for the next 6 months, just to get their next fix of kill/death ratio. Doing that instead of finding new experiences and games to find pleasure in. If you can't see how that is damaging to the gaming industry rather than leading it, then I think you are being deliberately blind or simply deluded.

3 up, 0 down

MaximusArcher
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 @ 2:24:46 AM

Respect on a board - meh.

Now that's an urban myth.

Whatever you say you're only trying to justify it to yourself, mp is here, and it's here to stay. It's every bit as valid as sp.

Just because you don't get any enjoyment out of it, and feel the need to put down those who do, is a bit short-sighted, lacking respect and naive to the industry.

Last edited by MaximusArcher on 1/5/2010 2:29:15 AM

0 up, 3 down

Highlander
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 @ 10:11:28 AM

Respect on a comments forum? Why not. But you have to earn it. Just like any field of human endeavor, communities form around common interests. I'm certain you'll disregard the point, but respect for fellow humans, even on an Internet comment forum is still a worthy thing. In all the years I have been online, I have found that respect is something that is regularly dismissed by those who do not have it.

Next time, bring some argument to the discussion.

I gain plenty of enjoyment from multi-player games. However, I can also see how the over emphasis on multi-player components in otherwise single player games can be detrimental. Noting that problem is not putting down anyone. Being short sighted or naive might be applicable if I were ignoring the issue. If single player games were somehow encroaching on multi-player games to their detriment I would be just as quick to note that effect.

However, at this point the only effect I can see a lengthy single player campaign having on a traditionally multi-player title is beneficial. A lengthy single player campaign helps establish the environment, the game universe and backstory in the mind of the player who then goes on to play the multi-player aspect. In my opinion, the richer game universe/back story and characterization will enhance the player's enjoyment of the multi-player aspects rather than damaging it.

The reverse situation where the inclusion of multi-player content decreases the emphasis on story, character or setting in a traditionally single player title is sadly decreasing the enjoyment of that single player aspect of the game. That is damaging both to the gamer who wants to play the single player game as well as to the industry.

Over emphasizing multi-player elements to the detriment of single player elements in games does, in my opinion, damage the game, the player and the industry by decreasing the depth of the experience.

It's like the current infatuation that TV has with 'reality TV' where the public is the star. It's cheaper to make, easier to make and requires far less effort since there is little to no writing, the 'real' people involved are making it up as they go along. As long as the show has a good template, you can populate it with real people season after season and get different, compelling TV year after year.

Compared to the difficulty and cost writing good fictional TV drama or comedy, reality TV is a no brainer. It's also repetitive crap that get's old, but it's popular. Oh yes, masses of people watch it, so therefore it's good for the industry, right? Except of course that all the writers, actors and everyone else associated with more traditional TV drama and comedy are hurt by the redirection of resources to reality TV.

What I see happening now is that the traditional TV drama and comedy shows are trying to compete with the reality TV by becoming ever more sensational, and parodying reality, outdoing the reality TV, and yet imitating it. I for one do not see this as beneficial to the quality or artistry of TV drama or comedy. Long term I don't think it helps the industry develop or improve, and I believe that it hurts the viewer by continually dropping the standards in favor of sensationalism.

I see multi-player games in a similar light to Reality TV because they depend on the gamers themselves to make their own story.

Last edited by Highlander on 1/5/2010 10:12:12 AM

4 up, 0 down

MaximusArcher
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 @ 11:11:29 AM

Don’t forget, respect is a two way thing.

Good to hear you like mp games.

Let’s go with two classic examples, MW and UC2? How are the mp aspects of these games detrimental to the sp?

MW is effectively a good mp, with a tacked on sp.
UC2 is effectively a good sp with a tacked on mp.

Let’s ask the makers of warhawk or mag their views on having to expend time/money/people on creating a sp just to add a little “backstory”.

As for damaging players by emphasizing mp, I laughed at this comment.

Btw, in my book, mp is nothing like reality tv, because I don’t watch reality tv, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

0 up, 2 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 @ 6:45:44 PM

Maximus: Would you like to know how many novels I read back to back? The string has been going for about six years.

1 up, 0 down

MaximusArcher
Wednesday, January 06, 2010 @ 4:40:43 AM

Not the same one tho. ;0)

0 up, 0 down

frostface
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 10:41:51 AM
Reply

I can't see the Dead Space SP being sacrificed for the MP, lets hope not anyway.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 1:01:45 PM

I can on a DVD

0 up, 0 down

Zorigo
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 12:37:24 PM
Reply

i'll say this, in the run up 2 mw2, a lot of people said, i'm buying it for the online. so here's my question, why the hell did they increase the price by £5 ($10?) just coz it was gonna get so many sales. get rid of the stupid story mode, keep specops and online and make it cheaper.

1 up, 0 down

D1g1tal5torm
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 2:36:15 PM

The price war that occurred when this was released meant that all major retailers in England were selling it at £25.

0 up, 0 down

ebterp
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 2:46:06 PM
Reply

Lets not forget that the majority of people out there are not hardcore gamers - there are a tone of people with limited timeframes to sit down and enjoy games - maybe an hour or two every so often or less - maybe they go weeks without touching and then pick it back up when they have time - online multiplayer is a perfect solution for these people - less than 1 minute and you are in playing without having to invest in a storyline, etc. I can really understand the value of both single player and online multi-player and they both definitely have there place. Implementing thru different games is probably the perfect solution although that may not fit into the marketing strategy for games companies.

EB

1 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 3:14:39 PM

Online gaming is definitely not only for the casual gamers - I'd rather say the opposite. There are few games one sink more hours into than online games, being it the multiplayer deathmatch varations or the *real* timesinks: The massive multiplayer online rpgs. Other than that I agree that both offline and online games have their place.

As for Ben's question, "is the multiplayer boom hurting game sales" I believe the direct answer to that is "yes, definately", however not enough for one to kill the other: There is room for both.

1 up, 0 down

geovanwitdakick
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:00:21 PM
Reply

I think that yes it is hurting the sales of SP only games. Look at Resistance: Fall Of Man. It had\has a solid multiplayer, & the SP was rather lacking. But it has sold more copies than Uncharted, albeit Resitance: Fall Of Man being released where less PS3's where available. Sure it's been out longer, but compare the first year sales of the two.

0 up, 0 down

Jed
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 9:40:38 PM
Reply

I remember when I started playing the first starting playing Halo. It was on the Xbox, and I could hook it up to my computer to play online. I thought it was the best thing ever. Me and a buddy of mine would play all the time. So I played through Halo 2 multiplayer for a while and, well, it just wasn't as fun as it had been.

Now and then I will go online for a while, but since I don't play it all the time I get my ass beat, which makes me want to play even less.

1 up, 0 down

Beamboom
Monday, January 04, 2010 @ 11:54:09 PM

"since I don't play it all the time I get my ass beat" - exactly, and that is why online gaming is not as much for the casual gamer as it is for those who play that particular game a lot.

1 up, 0 down

Nickname
Tuesday, January 05, 2010 @ 11:05:37 AM
Reply

Sorry, been having too much fun killing zombies on Dr. Ned's island!

0 up, 0 down

OptimusPryme
Wednesday, January 06, 2010 @ 11:20:42 AM
Reply

U guys sound old and afraid of change. For me at least, the fun in games like MW2 is in the constant leveling and rewards. While the game play is repetitive, the goal is to increase my skill, which allows for greater rewards and bragging rights. Eventually, after the "double points weekends" and new map packs have stopped or slowed, I move on to other games. I think it a boon to gamers to be able to spend $60 and get 3-4 months of great gamong out of it. To me, that's real value. I'll save the single player campaign only games for when they hit the bargain bin because new or not, I will get the same great experience that the person who paid top dollar for it the day it came out.

Last edited by OptimusPryme on 1/6/2010 11:23:39 AM

1 up, 2 down

Dfreek31
Thursday, January 07, 2010 @ 12:11:04 PM

3-4 months of play is not worth 60 dollars to me. I want games that I can go back to years from now and still have fun playing, not loathing that their is no one else that wants to play with me.

Last edited by Dfreek31 on 1/7/2010 12:11:32 PM

0 up, 0 down

SirLoin of Beef
Thursday, January 07, 2010 @ 11:49:51 AM
Reply

Good article Ben. I do think that the current trend to make everything multiplayer does hurt sales, which can hurt future game designs.

I was saddened when I heard BioShock 2 would have multiplayer in it. To me, the game is the story of a single entity tackling the horrors of Rapture. All of sudden there are more and the horror effect of the game is lessened. It diminishes the story. I've not played the multiplayer part of UC2. While I've heard it's not too bad, was it really necessary other than a way to try to get it into the hands of those players who play mostly multiplayer games?

A good example is the Halo series (yeah, boo! hiss! MS sucks and all that). The original Halo had a pretty engaging and long single-player mode for an FPS. I liked the story and thought how it was unfolded during the game was cool. In fact, it was the story the game was telling that prompted me to get Halos 2-3. What's sad though is that with each new Halo game, the single-player story was shorter than the previous one. ODST's story campaign clocks in around 5-6 hours. Granted, ODST's firefight multiplayer is different than the usual PvP style found in the other games but it's still the same result- more work done for the multiplayer part means less work done for the singe player part. This trend seems to be happening for a good number of games nowadays.

0 up, 0 down

Dfreek31
Thursday, January 07, 2010 @ 12:08:02 PM
Reply

think about this look at online multiplayer games of old lets take a game that was ok like MotorStorm:Pacific Rift. I bet you a 5 dollar bill that you will not find more the 20 people playing the online multiplayer. that goes the same with all games of that have online multiplayer so if the game is great and mostly online multiplayer what replay value does it have 10 years from now. but if we look at the likes of early systems that relied on people being in the same room playing together they have great replay value.

don't get me wrong I like multiplayer and I like the idea of being able to play people miles away from you. But, I love playing with someone in the room with me.

0 up, 0 down

Sky_Genesis
Thursday, January 07, 2010 @ 9:05:38 PM
Reply

Sad to say im not really a fan of the online games cuz game makers soley concentrate on MMO and forget about the single player gameplay all together..and whats funny is we get charged full price for a short single game play..and mmo...but after months after the initial hype dies down the mmo become boring..cuz not that many people are on anymore.where they could have put some more effort into the single player game to make the replay value a hell of a lot better..

0 up, 0 down

PaiNT_kinG
Friday, January 08, 2010 @ 12:31:21 AM
Reply

guilty as charged LOL x)

0 up, 0 down

D1g1tal5torm
Friday, January 08, 2010 @ 3:55:59 AM
Reply

Is multiplayer really hurting sales?

Gaming is, currently, the best selling media type.

Taking everthing back to grass roots, how can a media type that rises to the top actually be being hurt by a particular gametype.

The argument just doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

What's more relevant is the generational shift. Older gamers, who make up a fair portion of the community tend to hanker back to a more substantial sp effort, and lack the desire to playin in the cauldron of the mp environment (Hope you understand what I mean by this comment). But the younger generation, seem to be a lot more focused on mp.

0 up, 0 down

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