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New Disc Format For PlayStation 4?

Most will agree that Sony used the PlayStation 3 as a Trojan Horse of sorts for their new high-definition format, Blu-Ray. But if they continue to push the envelop with the PS4, might they need yet another optical disc enhancement?

Evidently, Sony has already said they won't be abandoning physical media in regards to their new PlayStation; despite the rise of digital distribution, Sony isn't about to release an all-digital home video game console. Therefore, can we assume the PS4 will feature Blu-Ray...or something else entirely? Perhaps a new wave of HD technology? According to PlayStation LifeStyle citing the current Game Informer issue, we may indeed see something new; something similar to the previously announced Holographic Versatile Disc. Whatever this new format is, it might have a massive capacity of 6TB (terabytes), which translates to 6,000GB. This would mean developers would have no problem loading all the data needed for 1080p high-definition resolution, 3D imagery, uncompressed loseless HD audio, more AV codec, etc, etc, etc. The article also hints at the extra space allowing for enhanced security on each disc, a major step in the ongoing battle against piracy. Now, Sony hasn't said anything official about this physical media phenomenon but we're hoping to hear more before the end of the year. But geez...just as we were getting used to Blu-Ray...

Well, progression is the name of the game, especially in an industry where failure to advance or innovate leaves you out in the cold. The quesetion is, how far off is the PS4? We figure 2012 is the absolute earliest but you never know...

1/12/2010 10:18:05 AM Ben Dutka

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Comments (108 posts)

Superman915
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:31:23 AM
Reply

maybe a more powerful blu-ray. they won't abandon the format. and even if they do, im sure the damn thing will still be able to PLAY blu-rays.

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maxpontiac
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:48:40 AM

That's all that matters.

However, if Microsoft goes for the the advanced form of media (which I see happening due to the failures associated with not using Blu-Ray in the 360), Sony would be foolish not to do so.

Plus, it seems Sony has always been right when it comes to the media format after VCR/Beta "war".

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godsman
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:45:49 AM

If Microsoft goes with the new format, Sony just have to go with the lesser multilayer blu-ray. Microsoft will lose money like Sony did this generation, then eventually not be the next format. It's too early for gamers or movie watchers to abandon their blu-ray for another format so early.

We only see the need for a larger disc format (blu-ray) , because we are in the transition of upgrading to HDTV. There aren't any new TVs in the making that require a larger disc. People are complaining they can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.

6 terabytes are probably for 100+ inch TVs. The new format won't happen until we can get 60 inch TVs into EVERY house. Do YOU guys think you'll be buying a 60+ inch within the next couple years?

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fluffer nutter
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:46:34 AM

Always been right? Have we forgotten about mini-Disc?

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:12:12 PM

Yup, probably a mega blu-ray update!

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Superman915
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:36:17 PM

good point fluffer nutter, but minidisc NEVER caught on like blu-ray did. nor did it deserve to.

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:42:50 PM

Unless we need 120 times the current BluRay storage, this 6TB disc isn't going to be required.

CD to DVD. CD maximum single layer capacity was about 700MB , DVD single layer capacity was about 4.7GB. So the transition from CD to DVD was about a 7 fold increase in capacity.

DVD to BluRay. DVD singl layer is 4.7 GB and dual layer is 8.5GB. BluRay is 25GB single layer, and 50GB dual layer. That's about a 6 fold increase in both cases from DVD.

The next jump in capacity is likely to be a 6-7 fold increase which would put a future disc format squarely in 300-500GB territory.

Strangely enough Hitachi have demonstrated 4 layer BluRay that can supposedly be read without modified optics. That would be 100GB. Pioneer has claimed a working prototype with 10 layers giving capacities of 250GB - apparently without requiring modified optics.

There is no definitive information on whether these multi-layer disks would be readable on all current BD players with updated firmware or perhaps require some form of modified optics. If it can be accomplished with firmware alone, then I would bet you will see higher capacity BluRay sooner rather than later. If it requires modified optics, then I think the various players will agree a higher capacity BluRay format. But it will be a few more years before that arrives.

Either way, the PS4 will more than likely use BluRay, even if it is an updated BluRay player with advanced optics to read more disc layers. Sony is still trying to get any return on the heavy investments it made into Cell, PS3 and BluRay. I just don't see them walking away from these things so easily.

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Gregory Freeman
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 4:15:51 PM

according to what I remember about Holographic Versatile Disc technology, the drive uses two green laser's, and a blue laser... a blue one reads surface media, while the green ones travel through the disk and reads information contained literally within the disk. so i'm unsure if this laser would ruin other disks... but I guess they could just not use the green laser on older format media... like use the blue laser to read a marker letting it know if it's an HVD, if not, either the red laser kicks in for cd's, and/or a blue laser takes over for Bluray..

could be wrong... haven't read about HVD's since N4G mentioned it as a possible media format for the new Micro-Box.

Last edited by Gregory Freeman on 1/12/2010 4:25:59 PM

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photo K
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 5:16:47 PM

i would buy that 100+inch TV and use it as my accent wall in my bedroom.

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 9:50:39 PM

Just a thought, but in all this speculation more than one person has wondered whether Microsoft might try to use a new physical media much in the same way Sony used BluRay.

Microsoft, that company that has spent the best part of the last 5 years telling anyone who will listen that BluRay is not needed DVD is fine, and Digital Distribution is the way forwards, and BluRay will be the death of optical storage...That very same company will use a new, far bigger optical media? Why? Isn't optical storage dead and digital the way of the future?

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___________
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 12:19:51 AM

yes but remember back in the day people were scoffing at floppy disks saying we will never need that much space.
i remember when 64bit OSs came out i was like cool now we can use more than 3GBs of RAM, but everyone even my teachers were saying no whats the point no program needs more than 3GBs.
well how did that turn out?
people are so closed, short minded, just because we dont need it now does not mean we wont.
i mean when films are originally filmed there MASSIVE!
they have to compress the crap out of it to get it onto a DVD, and with compression you loose quality.
yes compression has come a long, long way but no matter how good it gets your always going to be loosing some quality.
the amount may get smaller, and smaller, but it will always be there.

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Akuma07
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 6:38:51 AM

Microsoft will be the first to use a new format i think, then PS can either conform, use bluray, or make a new one....

I think Holographic is already a shoe in!

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Highlander
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 9:55:50 AM

@Anonymous Cowherd

Yes, I know all that, I was in IT when we still had full height 5MB winchester drives in PCs. I'm more that aware that we have said that we'll never need XYZMB, and then we said we'll never need XYZGB.

On the other hand, with BluRay and looking forwards we have not only the past to go by - CD to DVD 6-7 fold increase in data density, DVD to BluRay 6-7 fold increase in data density - but we also know exactly how much space HD material takes at 1080p and even 3D in 1080p - with uncompressed audio. So we can project forwards to 2160p to see what would be needed to store a movie on a disk, and you don't need 6TB to do it.

Yes Movie studios will want to store their images in a raw uncompressed format which will ne3ed lots more space, but that's not how a movie will be delivered to consumers. So unless you can come up with a reason for 3D in glorious 2160p60 needing more than about 500GB per disc, there's really no reason to push 6TB holographic storage. Especially considering the ability (as designed) for BluRay to go to many more layers with little if any modification to existing equipment. It also seems that data density per layer can be increased with only modest changes to the optics.

I'm not suggesting that we'll never go to holographic storage, but I am suggesting that that option remains both unnecessary and somewhat pie in the sky due to costs. Besides, as I said, MS has spent half a decade drumming into people that BluRay wasn't needed and DVD was fine, so how do you persuade all the sheeple that suddenly they need a disc with 1000 times the capacity of a DVD to watch a movie or play a game?

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DeathOfChaos
Friday, January 15, 2010 @ 9:02:05 AM

But they're still making UMD movies, aren't they? And PSP games? The Minidisc is a portable storage disc, not a home type of storage. Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing the next PSP have a minidisc in Bluray format, imagine that. lol. 10x more capacity than a normal UMD disc. Oh, and put a nice portable version of the Cell Processor in that PSP2? That would kick some portable ass, wouldn't it? lol.

Last edited by DeathOfChaos on 1/15/2010 9:04:29 AM

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englishgolfer
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:39:25 AM
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well with 6tb of space on a holodisc, developers can't hide behind the "we-didn't-have-enough-space-to-put-extra-content-on-the-disc-and-so-released-it-as-dlc-to-make-extra-money" excuse.

also, wondering what M$ might do? support what sony gets behind or find something else....

Last edited by englishgolfer on 1/12/2010 10:40:33 AM

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b3mike
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:57:35 PM

They have the storage capacity right now, dual layered blu ray discs but they'd much rather ship out incomplete games due to the restrictions of the 360's storage media and to milk gullable gamers for more money.

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ace_boon_coon
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 2:38:01 PM

that's so true. you know they still try to release all that DLC though

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DeathOfChaos
Friday, January 15, 2010 @ 9:05:50 AM

DLC is just extra stuff you can get if you want. Like they put out the full game and then they make stuff for it afterwords. Or could be the byproduct of the fans screaming about wanting their damn games now, lol.

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Juanalf
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:43:59 AM
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Nobody gives a sh!t right now.

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Sir Shak
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:22:58 AM

exactly

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:54:29 AM

@HeXeN,
Well, actually Sony gives a sh*t, and probably starts thinking about their nex gen machine the very moment they've put out this gen's console(and most probably even before it's out).

That way we can be even more wow'ed with each PS console that comes out.

In my same vein of thinking, what forward thinking has MS really done so far???

To me, MS doesn't really didn't do very much at all..... they tend to steal everyone else's tech, then scramble it all together, and just bum-rush it right out the door in trying to beat it's only real competitor(hence all the RROD's).

So, I for one give a great deal of sh*t about the new gen systems.......
And I want to see it all!!!!!!!

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jaybiv
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:45:15 PM

@ Biker. MS did implement a nice online experience, but what would you expect anything less from a software/online company. It's spit or get off the pot time for MS, we are still ways away from digital downloads of AAA games being a reality, so I would expect them to use a physical medium that trumps BRD. Although with MS's arrogant nature, they may try to go all digital.

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Vivi_Gamer
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:46:57 AM
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It cant be a standard Blu-ray Disc, otherwise it would just be a PS3 game surely, in any case i agree with HeXeN lol.

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IronFace2
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:48:41 AM
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Maybe Kojima will release MGS5 with everything in it...
I hope M$ goes down with his xbox.

Oh and its still to early to think about PS4
I dont want to see it for the next 7 years.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:50:42 AM
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I figured a multilayer blu ray would do it, I can see how they might want to push this new tech but jeez, that means blu ray players of all types will need to be phased out in a couple years. It's pretty hard to buy that. The other things that would be hard to buy is the pricetag on a new trojan horse machine, especially when people seem to think Sony wouldn't risk another slow start. Guess you never know WHAT these guys are gonna do.

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www
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:58:30 AM

Ever since the PS3 Slim became a reality, I learned a great deal of lesson, that anything is possible with these guys.

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Alienange
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:06:13 AM

You didn't think they'd make a PS3 Slim??

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Qwarktast1c
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:21:49 AM

@world
personally i hope they stick to blu-ray, just make it a high capacity multi-layer as you said

indeed blu ray is here to stay for a while and i see no use for HVD other than BAG (Big Ass Games)

but if it actually does come to having a new format like HVD, they just need to make it backwards compatible.

no 100% digital distribution!!! physical media FTW!!!!

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www
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:14:07 PM

Hope you aren't joking Alienange. I meant most of US did NOT expect the PS3 Slim this early.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:29:07 PM

BAG, I like that :)

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lMephisto
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 11:11:41 AM

BAG Ftw :)

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www
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:56:48 AM
Reply

Wouldn't be surprised, they might have over-heard MS talking about putting something like the HVD in their next Xbox, since they still don't want to buy the rights of blu-ray and Sony will not sit down and get left behind.

I gotta feeling MS think they can fool Sony by making all that noise about digital media is the future whiles their prepping something like the HVD in their next Xbox. MS don't want to admit, it was a slight blunder on their part sticking with dvds for the 360, they wouldn't want to make that mistake twice.

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Qwarktast1c
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:28:09 AM

MS is just a bitter and greedy company

granted theres nothing wrong with making profits in the gaming industry (in business in general for that matter), but it better not result in a shitty half assed product or anything that might have to be scaled back because of multiplatform (yeah i'm lookin at you squenix).

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Alienange
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:57:20 AM
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It'll be a new format. It always is and it always wins. Submit to the power of Sony earthlings.

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isaya85
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:01:29 AM
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I guess this means there's going to be another $599 price tag, oh well gotta start saving a nickel a day from here on out.

I would love to be wrong PLEASE somebody tell me I am

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coverton341
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:48:42 PM

Well of course you're wrong. Given the rate of inflation and market trends it will sport a $799 price tag at launch.

Better put away a nickel and a dime per day to ensure you can also buy a game.

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Gregory Freeman
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 4:30:52 PM

well, hate to burst your bubbles, but holographic drives are projected to initially cost around US$15,000. and that's not including CPU, GPU, and the other mess of expensive electronics...

hehe, looks like this tech will be long and distant from consumer popularity... Maybe we'll discover warp drive before then, and will no longer need entertainment because, well, iunno about you, but space travel to me would be more important than Killzone, Uncharted, Heavy rain, or Ratchet & clank.

I <3 the idea of inter stellar travel, call me a nerd, but i actually want to be the 1st man on mars (although thatt'l never happen)

but as I digress, $15,000 is alot to spend on lasers and diodes...

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Slimcere
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:07:46 AM
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Although it really doesn't matter now all signs are pointing to the Holographic Versatile Disc(HVD) as Sony are already part of the HVD forum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc

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Hezzron
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:30:11 AM
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I think gamers are more tolerant of media format changes.

However, to push a new media format on the movie buying crowd so soon (2012 possibly) could cause an uproar and ultimately fail.

The fact that Blu-Ray players were backwards compatible with DVDs, helped the new format to thrive. Any new format would have to do the same if it wants a chance to succeed.

Anyways, as others have said, waaay too soon to even want to think about it.

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bigrailer19
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 11:59:31 AM
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In two years I might change my mind but right now I say F that!

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:05:32 PM
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I agree, it's certainly too soon to put a new machine out.

Hell, some of the developers are just starting to get comfortable with the PS3 as it is now, so it's got plenty more giddy-up & go horsepowerto drive itself far, far into the future.

BTW, even though I want to know everything about all this new tech, I still wish Sony could plug up all it's damned leaks.

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Robochic
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:18:13 PM
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I cant' really think that far ahead, I'm still thinking how to pay for the great exclusives coming out in the next 2 months.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:28:39 PM

Tell me about it, maybe I can get some life insurance and fake my own death.

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jaybiv
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:48:27 PM

Too funny World!

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FullmetalX10
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:22:07 PM
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As long as the format is backwards compatible, supports *Quoting Qwarktast1c* BAG (Big Ass Games)*Quoting Qwarktast1c* and doesn't start to get more rumors till 2013-2014, I'm not minding it.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:26:57 PM
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*Begin obligatory end of the world joke*

So that's how things will end in 2012, everyone who buys a launch PS4 will put in an HVD and the new Qriocity will come to life like skynet, take over our Sony products and destroy us all as it fights Natal2 in an epic battle over console supremacy.

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robinhood2010
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:32:02 PM
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Seeing as the PS3 is meant to have a 10 year lifespan, I can see this happening. But, to be honest, they could just use multiple bluray discs, like they did on PS1 and Xbox 360.

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coverton341
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:40:41 PM
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Somewhere on those internets I remember seeing that TDK or someone had been working on a blu-ray disc that could hold about 500GB of information. I think that I even saw somewhere that they were working on one that could hold up to 100GB of info and it didn't require a new drive just a firmware update but who knows. Anyway I think Sony should stick to the blu-ray format just with these larger capacity discs. That way everyone walks away a winner. The film enthusiasts don't have to worry about a new format to adopt, it would pretty much ensure B/C because half the work will be done, and we have already had it displayed that blu-ray is capable of delivering true HD and a 3D experience.

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ShadowRunner
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 12:54:57 PM
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Don't think this is gonna happen. Maybe support for 100+ GB blurays, but not a new format.

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CrazyIrishBoy
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:01:17 PM
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Ps4.. bu.. but... we are only starting to enjoy our ps3's! Not another ps4 article, please! For a while at least :)

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jaybiv
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:01:21 PM
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I'm not too knowledgeable about HVD, but I would reckon that it won't be in the PS4. Just looking at the wiki article, no one is launching before 2019 and even now, the prices are ridiculous. Would anyone like a $16,000 PS4 with $200 games?

Just doing a google search and they have been singing the praises of this tech since 2005 and we still haven't seen a consumer oriented product using this technology.

Perhaps Sony is taking an wait and see approach in case some major tech breakthrough occurs with the tec, but I think extra capacity BRD may be at the core of the PS4.

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FullmetalX10
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:03:09 PM
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Thumbs up @ World for epic apocalypse console battle, since ima die then anyways, might as wel root for Playstation.

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gumbi
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:20:00 PM
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I highly doubt we'll see a new disc format with PS4. Even if it's another 5-7 years off, that's too soon for Sony to spearhead yet another format war for digital media. Holodiscs may take off, but I see them being more useful for business use, database backups and the like... not movies/games.

Blu-rays were designed to be capable of more data layers than DVD. I think we're more likely to see 3-4 layer blu-rays in PS4 than a new format.

Besides, it doesn't get much better than blu-ray. I have a 100" screen and 1080p HD Projector and I can't even conceive of any audio/video being any clearer or crisper than what blu-ray is now.

Unless the average consumer starts building Imax's in their basements, we don't need anything bigger than blu-ray for movies and games.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:46:10 PM

must be epic to have your PS3 hooked up to that projector.

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 2:07:02 PM

BluRay can go to more than 8 layers, and come current players should be capable of at least 4 layer playback with a simple firmware upgrade. The read head is designed to allow more than dual layer operation.

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gumbi
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:19:35 PM

Epic indeed World. The first night I got it I barely played. Just went through each game in my library and stared in awe at how awesome it looked, wishing I had time to play it all over again.

And thanks Highlander. I knew BD was capable of more data layers, but hadn't done any extra research to see just how far it could go. 8 layers would give us what? 200Gb! It should be some time before games exceed that.

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tes37
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 4:32:52 PM

TDK developed a 10 layer 320gb bluray.

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NonProphet
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:22:09 PM
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I bought a laptop 8 years ago that came with a 60 GB hard drive. The new disc could hold 6TB!? That's a 100x increase in storage space, and on a disc? Still, has any game come even come close to 100 gb? 6TB seems unnecessary. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

And I predict a 2013 release for the PS4 (but I might wait for the price cut in 2014*~*)But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

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RadioHeader
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:27:07 PM
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Like others have already said, multi-layer BRD's promise up to 200GB. It's hard to imagine that games will soon be more than 8× the size of Uncharted 2.

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Riku994
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 1:59:09 PM
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6 Terabytes? Honestly?

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Qwarktast1c
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 12:11:25 AM

imagine all the textures, polygons, lighting, all the other stuff on that!!!

pretty damn epic. sophisticated yes, and still epic

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faraga
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 2:36:40 PM
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Untill now every Playstation console has used a diffirent main storage (i.e. CD on PS1, DVD on PS2, UMD on PSP and Blu-Ray on PS3), so I won't be surprised if the PS4 came with yet another disc drive.
I would be surprised if the capacity would exceed 500GB though.

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Juanalf
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 2:39:02 PM
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I hope if they are releasing a new format it will be for games only and not for movies.I'm just starting to have a good collection of Blu-rays and I'd hate to start again with some other format(and yes I like having the latest thingamajigs).

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DarkUnHoly
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:00:18 PM
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More annoying is how Biker always has something to say about someone makeing a comment about any of sony's products. Get a freaking life!
now back to sony please man I spend 600 bucks on the my 1st addition 80gb ps3, and I thought that hurt my pockets but for the love i bought it. My wife is gonna kill me if You come out with another machine with the same price tag. Now I am no tech genius but Maybe the media drive can still be blue ray but with 6tb of space on them and still be able to be read by all current bluerays they just have to figure out how to format that on the Blue ray media. and you know @ hexen I totally agree with you dude. just like the ps1 a simple kick ass gaming system.

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 7:46:46 PM

darkunholy,
If you took the time to read all of my comments you'd see I've made a lot more than just about Sony, or replies back to any certain poster.

Sooooo, if you don't like reading any of my comments, then just ignore them & don't read them.

Otherwise,....."Tough sh*t"

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Scarecrow
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:12:32 PM
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This is beautiful.... *sob*

Sony = quality

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DarkUnHoly
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:13:56 PM
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Making*** sorry mistyping today cant find my glasses lol

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:17:04 PM
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Let's see. BluRay can sacle to higher capacity, and as Godsman very correctly pointed out, there is no reason for 6TB discs even on the horizon. Even 3D 1080p is at most double the video data compared to ordinary 1080p. So a movie that requires a 50GB BluRay so that the movie plus all the extras are on one disk will probably require 1 dual layer disk for the 3D 1080p movie, and another BluRay with the extras.

Unless HDTV takes another leap in resolution to 2160p which would be 4 times the amount of data for video compared to 1080p, there really isn't a need (yet) for a new format, especially as BluRay is designed to be expandable up to about half a TB.

Not only that, but BluRay is only now gaining acceptance in the mainstream, and the same is true of HDTV. Except as a media for Business data backup, the 6TB holographic disc is simply not needed - yet.

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MyWorstNightmar
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:31:03 PM

Highlander, I thought you would be the one to ask. Why is it that a majority of PS3 games tout 720p resolution, whereas the Xbox 360 version will play at 1080i?

Why are developers not making 1080i or 1080p verions of their games for the PS3?

Will we have to wait until the PS4 comes out before developers make games with top notch resolution?

Does the Xbox simply automatically upscale these games, and the PS3 doesn't have the ability?

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:59:12 PM

Well, the answer is "it depends".

The short answer is that most games render to 720p or sometimes a lower resolution and the console then scales the picture to the output resolution needed.

The long answer is...

The scaler on the Xbox360 is under user control so every game on the 360 can be displayed as 720p or 1080i. But, that is a scaled image, the game engine is still rendering to whatever the developer chose - usually 720p or less.

On the PS3 the difference is that the scaler isn't controlled by the user, it's the developer that has to include the 1080i support. Early in the PS3's life including 1080i support was a major pain in the neck because Sony in their infinite wisdom had not yet made that functionality available to developers, forcing extra work on them if they wanted to include 1080i support. Since the PS3 could automatically scale down to 480p and almost every HDTV being nsold could handle 720p, most developers worked on 720p output. The thing is that the 480p image upscaled to 1080i on those older HDTVs that don't actually support 720p, is rubbish. Things are better now and most games include 1080i support because Sony has made 1080i scaling available to developers.

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MyWorstNightmar
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 4:57:35 PM

Thanks Highlander, for as much as my brain can wrap around that subject, you explained it nicely.

You mention that Sony now makes it available to developers and most games have it now? I am not at home right now, so I can't check, but I thought Uncharted 2 says 720p on the back of the box? I seem to remember looking for that on the back, thinking that if any game would be 1080i, that it would be this game. Maybe I am getting my games mixed up, and perhaps if you are home, and have the box handy, you can check. But back to your comment, if 1080i is now available, why did it not get used on the latest gem Uncharted 2?

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:12:31 PM

Remember that 1080i is only 30 frames per second, so if a developer is going for silky smooth, they will render 60 frames a second if they can. That would mean 720p (or if their game allows 1080p).

1080i and 720p take about the same horsepower to accomplish, and for action games progressive scan produces a superior image to the user.

For users of a 720p/1080i TV (the majority of HDTVs currently owned are 720p), 720p will in general be a superior experience.

That's my opinion on why 720p has become the target resolution of choice.

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DarkUnHoly
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:21:15 PM
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@ highlander I agree, i still think there is more to blue ray that hasn't been tapped yet as far as movies go.

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FatherSun
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 3:38:55 PM
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A lot of technology has been invented without a need for it. Technoogy will advance no matter what. As far as needing it on the PS4 that is another matter. 6TBs is madness! Even considering doubling or even tripling the resolution, ultimate security coding, photorealistic graphics ect.. I still don't see 6TBs being utilized!
Unless there is some future tech we don't know about that they will be implementing or some alien technology that has been discovered all that space may be a waste. I can understand SONY not wanting the competition to leap over them but this seem 2 be getting out of hand.
Or maybe my dream of having an actual holographic experience in my home is on the horizon. Now that may need 6TBs! If not more.

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Snaaaake
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 6:03:32 PM
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Blu Ray will stay with us, there's even 200GB Blu Ray now.

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NeoHumpty
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 6:05:35 PM
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I'm wagering that the ps4 will be available for the holiday season of 2012. Maybe the year after. I don't think that 6tb will be needed for all games at release, but by the end of the system's life cycle I'd bet that they'll be close. Better safe than sorry.

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SnipeySnake
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 6:15:27 PM
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Green-ray?

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Snaaaake
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 6:33:52 PM

Ray-ray?

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piratedrunk
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 8:06:22 PM

metal-gear-ray

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Bugzbunny109
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 6:53:43 PM
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Good to see Sony doing what they did with the ps3-planing.

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Snaaaake
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 6:59:43 PM
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I thinkt the PS3 is already a perfect console, the only thing Sony needs to improve are:
1) Blu Ray drive for reading Blu Ray at a faster rate
2) Cell power so that Uncharted 3 won't be the next to use 100% of the Cell.

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kiwami_nemesis
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 7:29:26 PM
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the storage needed for the ps4 will depend on the resolution. 2160P is the next resolution increase for the consumer market but all the focus is going into 3D, because a big panel that can display 2160P is too costly.
amoled is a good technology for smaller pixels but it is far from being in the consumer market in sizes higher than 4" at a competitive price.

1080P 3D blue-Ray only requires 50% more space so 3D being the next move in the near future, i would say if the ps4 is released in the next 2 to 3 years it most like have a Blu-Ray drive.

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Highlander
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 10:25:23 PM

As you say the panels to display 2160p are hideously expensive, and 1080p panels are still entering the mainstream. Considering the investments made in getting to 1080p the entire CE industry could do with a few years of stability to get some return on that investment.

Even 2160p only quadruples the space needed for video data. So even if a 3D BluRay movie was fully 50GB in size, a 2160p version of the same thing would be more or less 200GB in size, which is actually 50GB less than what Pioneer demonstrated around CES 2008. BluRay has the capability to go to at least 500GB with higher data density per layer, and more layers.

BluRay can cope not only with full HD (1080p), 3D in full HD, and in future 2160p and 3D in 2160p. I just do not see any justification for this really quite expensive (even compared to BluRay) holographic technology at all.

The other aspect of this is something called "good enough". I still hear people arguing that HD isn't necessary and upscaled DVD is as good as BluRay. There's simply no business or other justification to go for 2160p at this point in time. 1080p is very much good enough for 99% of the population, if anything more than half the population still consider 1080p to be something of a waste of time. 1080p is more than good enough.

Last edited by Highlander on 1/12/2010 10:27:36 PM

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ceedot
Tuesday, January 12, 2010 @ 9:02:51 PM
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Sony say a 10 year console life span and they've meant it the last 2 times. what makes it any different now?

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___________
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 12:49:02 AM

span.
that dont mean there not going to release a new console for 10 years, that just means that there planing to support the ps3 for 10 years after launch.
whether that actually happens or not is a different story.

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___________
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 12:36:45 AM
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easy up on the trojans ben, no one wants a computer virus ;)

anyway i can guarantee 1 thing and that is the ps4 WILL NOT! be download only.
i think ive done enough bitching about that, its just common seance why.

my guess would be holographic disks since its tradition for sony to bring in a new format with each of its consoles and it nets them quite a bit of cash.
putting out a bluray player into the market just as a normal player would of been a massive risk.
it may not of paid off, putting it in a games console is much safer because if it does not take off who cares its only in one medium.
make it as a movie player than you have wasted movies themselves, computer drives, movie players.
so putting a new optical drive in a games console is a much smarter, safer bet.
i wont say there going to do it because they always do thats just a stupid excuse not a reason.
they will bring in a new medium because it nets them quite a bit of cash and ruffles the competition.

i would say the panasonic 300GB bluray disks will be a staple for PS3 games till the PS4 comes out and than we will get our holographic disks.

5 things stopping the PS4 from releasing now.

1 sony has not made their cash back on the ps3.
you dont go and spend millions on R&D not counting production than scrap it 5 years later.
the PS3 has cost sony so much money im not expecting to see a PS4 till 2013 at the earliest, sony will want to milk all the money out of the ps3.

2 holographic TVs.
i really think next generation consoles will go for the "virtual reality" holy grail.

3 TVs picture quality is still not high enough to warrant such a powerful system.
when you think about it TVs have not come very far in the last few years.
Plasmas came out and were slightly better than CRTs, LCDs came out and they were worse than both CRTs and plasmas, than LEDs came out and are STILL! not as good as plasmas.

4 the market.
its so saturated now with so many new TVs due out at the end of this year.
laser TVs are FINALLY! due out, 3D is due out, OLEDs are due out.
were still in a recession and these companies are poring millions into new TV tech, who is going to buy it?

5 cost.
hardware is there, its incredible what has been made but is not out to the public.
Q&D Australias most expensive audio and visual specialists say both sony and panasonic have made 3D laser TVs but they are incredibly expensive.
toshiba has a new TV powered by the cell BE that is suppose to do double 1080P.
the tech is there it has been made its ready to ship.
but its dear as poison to develop.
ill be seriously shocked if sony release a PS4 before 2014, 2013 if M$ beat them to the race they dont want to be late to the party again.
no one likes playing catch up.

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Highlander
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 10:12:13 AM

1 - indeed.
2 - holographic TV is at the same stage as regular TV was when John Logie Baird was inventing his version of TV.
3 - LCDs are better than CRTs in most ways, LED baclit LCDs are pretty darned good, the only LED TV is the OLED one from Sony, There are no othe actual LED TVs on the market - yet.
4 - HDTV is only just beginning to enter the mass market, we're 10 years away from complete market penetration by HD, and still many consumers don;t believe it's needed.
5 - LED backlit TVs are hideously expensive, the OLED screens from Sony are hideously expensive. holographic technology is still in the blue sky research stage and is hideously, hideously expensive - even for cutting edge tech.

The PS3 will continue to use the standard dual layer 50GB BluRay, unless BluRay universally adopts a multi-layer format that can be read by existing hardware. I believe that PS4 will most likely use some future version of BluRay which uses more layers and higher density. The reason being that even at 4 times the resolution of existing HDTV (in stereoscopic 3D) we won't need even a full terabyte to store a movie on a single disc.

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___________
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 6:17:44 AM

who knows, they may go the bundle root.
the hybrid movie and game on one disk like sony has been talking about for a long time, batman AA was suppose to be the first of those.
maybe developers will start releasing their games together on the one disk thus reducing publishing costs.
maybe 3 games per disk like darksiders, bayonetta and army of two the 40th day on one bluray disk.
that way it would cost less to publish the game and hopefully the savings will be passed onto the consumer.
only problem i can think of would be people saying well what if i dont want bayonetta or darksiders, what if i only want the army of two the 40th day?
well simple, have the 3 games on the one disk and you pay for the codes to unlock the game.
that way if you only want 1 game you can pay for one code specific to that game and the other 2 will be locked out till you buy a code for that game.
o, but than people could post these codes on the net...........


where do you keep getting this idea that LED backlight TVs are expensive?
there not.
as i said yesterday LED backlight TVs are 300-500 bucks more than the equivalent LCD tube model.
if it was the jump from CRT to LCD as in 1K or so i would agree, but its simply not.
i mean samsung series 8 TVs which more or less are the best on the market are costing less than 4K for a 52 inch.
you call that "hideously expensive?"
in that case i would close my eyes if i were you because theres going to be lots of TVs releasing later this year that will cost more than that.
panasonic are due to release their 155 inch TV

toshiba are set to release their TV which has the cell BE in it and does dual 1080P

laser TVs are due out.

OLED TVs are due out, and well if sonys 12 inch is any indication there going to be priced through the roof!

in fact LED backlighting is the only new tech to come to TVs that has not skyrocketed the price, which is kinda expected but still.
the picture quality improvement is more than worth the price, in fact i would say its a bargain!

Last edited by ___________ on 1/14/2010 6:23:39 AM

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Highlander
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 4:41:25 PM

*sigh*

Well, on what scale do you call them cheap? Cheap compared to TVs with LED backlighting and local dimming? Perhaps. Cheap compared to the older CFFL lit TVs? Perhaps not. Edge-lit with white LEDs are 'cheap' compared to truly backlit ones, which makes you wonder why Samsung charge so much for them.

Samsung 40-inch 120Hz CFFL-lit LCD HDTV - $650
Samsung 40-inch 120Hz LED LCD HDTV - $1150

Those are prices from today searched via Google. So, LED lit TVs are cheaper? Looks to me like they are $500 more expensive.

TVs that are truly backlit by LEDs (the ones that feature local dimming) are much more expensive. The tri-color LED backlight with local dimming is even more expensive.

Laser projection is in it's infancy.

I think you just like contradicting and arguing.

Last edited by Highlander on 1/14/2010 4:48:04 PM

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BigBoss4ever
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 2:00:28 AM
Reply

i dont want to think for a PS4 or whatever amazing technology it will have, i just need to have some freaking good games for now, starting with gow3, ff13 or the likes.

it is irrelevant to me for now and i am very happy with the blu-ray.

i refuse to embrace such a quick advance of technology, i dont mind even playing those classic ps1 game with this gen technology, i dont care about 6000g or holographic or whatever fancy name the future console will have, just let me enjoy what we have for now, we are just getting into the begining of a new gold era in this gen, let it boom, do not jump the gun. please

Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 1/13/2010 2:05:02 AM

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Nerull
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 2:06:00 AM
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I don't think there's anything wrong with bluray unless the competition somehow includes something superior next-gen.
To me the most critical mistake to correct is to throw in some more impressive ram. 4 gigs should be cheaper to manufacture by that point so combined with something similar to the cell or better it should stand with whatever pc's have by then.

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daizycutter
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 3:19:11 AM
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nevermind media.. stick some more ram in the damn thing !!

Last edited by daizycutter on 1/13/2010 3:19:36 AM

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Ghidora
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 3:24:23 AM
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I remember reading about 300GB Bluray's... shouldent that be enough... well it all depends on when the PS4 lands...

Last edited by Ghidora on 1/13/2010 3:24:39 AM

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Imagi
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 6:58:22 AM
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They will stick with Blue-Ray, Consumers will not stomach yet another format, especially after the HD-DVD Blue-ray format war.

Stand alone Blue-ray players are only just about getting cheap enough for the mass market. The Capacity of Blue-ray disc's can be increased, and should be plenty for the next gen.

When a new format comes in I want it to be a big increase on the current size limitations,to justify the new hardware required.

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Eternally
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 7:40:42 AM
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Well we dont have worry about MS for next gen, they have allready confirmed no new xbox. So next gen it will only be Sony and nintendo, like good old times.

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Imagi
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 8:23:41 AM

As someone who has worked in IT for many years, with Microsoft but now I see them as a very last resort as now I am a *nix guy. Do not believe or trust anything Microsoft say.

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Fane1024
Saturday, January 16, 2010 @ 7:39:10 PM

"Do not believe or trust anything Microsoft say."

Quoted
For
Truth

Last edited by Fane1024 on 1/16/2010 7:39:22 PM

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Milonakis
Wednesday, January 13, 2010 @ 7:34:31 PM
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I heard that they are switching back to VHS. However they are putting an extra 200000 yards of reel in them so they can hold 15TB. They are approximately 3ft long and 4ft tall.

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fooosie
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 12:42:47 AM
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I hear they're calling one of the types of players for that new format: Soundwave. It wants you to play Revenge of the Fallen... or die.

We all gotta go sometime

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fooosie
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 2:04:21 AM
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The ps4 is gonna be rad! They're going to use an new Larabee architecture variation CPU with 56 billion tansistors on a single die! They say its base clock speed will be 12.8ghz. In combination with the 32tb Solid State Drive, load times will only noticeable if you are running past at 185,999 miles per second. It will support up to 4320x 2160 resolution at a constant 60 frames per second ( thats all we'll ever need )
Personaly I cant wait for uncharted4: Les Paul's Guitar but I'll settle for the Uncharted Collection until then.

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JackC8
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 10:13:24 AM
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I'm all for new technology that will blow our minds and all that great stuff, BUT - if it's so expensive that I can't afford it, then there's nothing in it for me. There has to be some sort of balance. Let's make a nice improvement in the technology that will create a very impressive next gen console, but let's not go all Star Trek and leave three-quarters of us waiting on the sidelines while the guys with large disposable incomes write articles about how fantastic it all is.

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dzabava
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 2:45:36 PM
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Im tired of all this ps4 BS, i want my ps3 to last the 10 years sony said it would,just like my ps2 has (that be enough time to start working, maybe marriying and avoiding children). Im happy with my ps3 except for the high prices on new games and a few hiccups sometimes. I love the massive amount of games coming (GOW3, ffxiii, heavy rain, etc and specially the newly announced Armored Core 5 :D )So i dont wanna hear about ps4 for at least a couple of years, id rather ps3 having better games and software, no cuts on ffxiii (360 at fault?) or inferior bayonetta (or other alike(d)) versions. So both developers and reviewers-informers, Let me enjoy my ps3 and talk about a ps4 when it is necessary, let it be new and urgent, a surprise (of about a thousand $) in the moment is released, not an accelerated and already preknown expensive console.

Last edited by dzabava on 1/14/2010 2:49:02 PM

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JROD0823
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 6:36:23 PM
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When I last read about the Holographic Versatile Disk, it was employing standard red laser technology. It boasted capacities up to 500GB. If these new Holographic Disks employed Blu-Ray blue laser technology, they would naturally be capable of a vastly higher capacity. 6TB is not much of a stretch.

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PaiNT_kinG
Thursday, January 14, 2010 @ 11:31:23 PM
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6,000 gb,woooow just wow

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NetheRealm
Friday, January 15, 2010 @ 4:39:45 AM
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If there is something available or will be for PS4 that is better than blu-ray & relatively the same price then hell yes they should put it in. Some people still use VCRs & some still use DVD & by the time everyone gets a blu-ray player most HDTVs will have higher resolution & 3D so I say go for it there's no point waiting. I'd rather be putting my 6TB disk that can hold a ton of content into my PS4 in 2013 than these outdated overstuffed limited capacity blu-rays. With enough marketing hype & industry support people will accept whatever format is the current standard & upgrade accordingly when they have the available finances & money flow keeps the economy turning, so it's all good.

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DeathOfChaos
Friday, January 15, 2010 @ 9:07:50 AM
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I read up on that disc format not too long ago, seems pretty interesting to me. There's something within the disc that levitates when they write to the disc and stuff, it's crazy. If Sony can grab that, do it! lol. Maybe it can be a gaming only type of media disc. I think the gaming world has been needing a disc format used only for gaming for a ling time now, lol.

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__Marco__
Monday, January 18, 2010 @ 7:21:22 AM
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Nice info!

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AcHiLLiA
Monday, January 25, 2010 @ 12:12:42 AM
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Think economic crisis!

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