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Who Wants To Retract Their FFXIII Review Scores?

First of all, before I even begin, let me clarify by saying that I have no intention of changing my review - which I still stand by - and I doubt Arnold would want to alter his analysis. It's not about us and it's not about specific reviews or critics. It's about a question that came up during the time when Final Fantasy XIII reviews were assaulting the web.

Due to the length of a game like FFXIII and the gamer's insistence that high-profile titles should have in-depth reviews the day of the product's launch, a debate ensued. Should critics complete a game before issuing a review? I've already spoken my piece on this issue; it's a conundrum that unfortunately sees no easy fix. We need the time and most gamers require instant gratification when it comes to the score results for something like FFXIII. But we all have to admit that many - perhaps even the majority - of scores were assigned to the game in question before the reviewer finished the adventure. This being the case, and now that most understand just how drastically the game changes at about the 20-25 hour mark (when one reaches Gran Pulse), I'm wondering if there are critics out there who would like to assign a different score... And I'm not implying that all the scores would go up, although I believe most probably would, due to common complaints.

Personally, while I maintain that Square-Enix wrenched too much of the control and strategy out of my hands in FFXIII, running around and exploring Gran Pulse makes it feel a hell of a lot like FFXII. We still don't run across any true-blue RPG towns but the open-ended exploration is finally here and one can quite literally grind Crystogen points for hours on end. The optional Hunts also add to the variety. In short, in many ways, it feels like a completely different game...so what critic out there is willing to man up and say, "I wanna another shot at the review"? The flaws are still obvious - yeah, the enemies can smack me around while we go through the Paradigm Shift animation; that's not intensely lame and annoying - but hey, Gran Pulse ain't anything like the first ten hours or so. Just thought I'd throw this out there.

Related Game(s): Final Fantasy XIII

4/1/2010 9:19:36 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (149 posts)

Ogibillm
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:39:24 PM
Reply

20 hours is a lot of time to invest in a game before it gets 'good'

Agree with this comment 28 up, 2 down Disagree with this comment

Jawknee
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:42:13 PM

It's pretty much a 20 tutorial for the 1st 20 hours. Then when it finally gets good, its short lived.

Agree with this comment 11 up, 3 down Disagree with this comment

piratedrunk
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:45:21 PM

Short lived? Gran Pulse is huge

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to_far_apart
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:54:03 PM

The problem is it's hard to take those 60-70 hours to play a game and review it, when critics have the difficulty of reviewing many games. Like Ben mentioned in one of his earlier articles addressing the same issue. Critics have been pretty spot on with the review scores, so I don't think you should change the formula. Like they say, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Nothing is perfect, but it's done its' job. Now, I don't hear everyone complaining about a fallout 3 review do I? And that's one long game as well.

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Jawknee
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:54:31 PM

C'mon, its a large map but there's not much variety. Its largely the same all over. XII's open maps were more interesting and fun too explore then Gran Pulse.

Agree with this comment 11 up, 0 down Disagree with this comment

eLLeJuss
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:56:32 PM

You sound like the first 20 hours of the game is pure crap.I say the first 20 hours of the game is pretty good its only missing towns and it'd be fine. its not like its as bad as last rebellion. first 20 hours grips you to the story anyways

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Oxvial
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:00:02 PM

LOL whats the point on compare it with crap like Last Rebellion?

A bunch of bad games look great in comparassion with Last Rebellion.

Last edited by Oxvial on 4/1/2010 10:02:20 PM

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to_far_apart
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:00:16 PM

I agree with Jawknee.

I can say in all confidence, that to me, this is not the best Final Fantasy game I've played, it's one of the worst. Now, when i say worst, I don't mean it in any negative form suggesting it was a horrible game. But to me, this was not the same Final Fantasy I've known and loved. I really do feel like they did over hype this game as well. Also, the fact that it had a more linear style didn't necessarily help, since we all know how Final Fantasy really came to be known as.

In all fairness, for those who are Final Fantasy junkies like myself, you have to play it more with and open mind, you have to play it as if you weren't playing a Final Fantasy game, but something totally different. I didn't like how long it took to really get engaging after 20 something hours, but it really got good after that. I overall really enjoyed that game, but it was no Final Fantasy VII replacer lol

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Highlander
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:06:17 PM

Indeed! Agreed!

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:42:51 PM

I was too engaged in the story to be bothered by a 20 hour tutorial. The tutorial blended in nicely.

For those on here who are complaining about a tutorial that NEEDED to be as long as it was to cleanly work the player into a brand new mechanic - When was having patience a bad thing while playing an RPG?

I thought we were NOT the twich gamers. I'm over 110 hours into FF 13. 20 hours isn't really a long time when playing RPGs unless you actually look at the timer and say, "Damn, i've been playing for 20 hours?!"

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piratedrunk
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:40:17 PM
Reply

It really is a very different game at that point and while towns would have been awesome it is still a great time.

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Highlander
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:09:23 PM

Perhaps there ought to be a separate review score for the 1st 20 hours of kill-tubes and then the 'real' game once you reach Gran Pulse?

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piratedrunk
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:13:36 PM

Whatever floats your boat I guess. I enjoyed the entire game. The first half for its story and the second half for the addictive exploration and missions.

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chedison
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:47:01 PM

I agree piratedrunk. The story was really engaging to me that I didn't really feel like the "kill tubes" really took away from the experience. In fact they kind of helped the story move along at a much smoother pace.

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Jawknee
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:41:12 PM
Reply

Yes i can say with confidence, FFXIII is the worst Final Fantasy I've played.

That doesn't mean i hate the game, i just don't love it like i did previous titles. Even XII. I think i would have rather taken an HD Remake of XII over XIII at this point. It just doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy to me. Square has lost it. Hopefully they can deliver with Versus XIII or XV.

Last edited by Jawknee on 4/1/2010 9:42:55 PM

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Bromus398
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:22:40 PM

Completely agree.... though X was at the bottom of my list. XII didn't have much of a story, but I still put 120 hours into it without regret.

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Kevadu
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:48:21 AM

I've played them all, and to be honest the only one I would rank below XIII is II. And II is pretty bad...XIII disappoints me on so many fronts. The story is supposed to be the highlight, but personally I thought it was terrible. I can't find myself caring at all about most of the characters. Gran Pulse may be big (though still nowhere near as large as XII's world) but there isn't actually that much to do there.

For the record I actually liked XII. It was definitely not a perfect game, but I had plenty of fun with it. Not so much with XIII...

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www
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:16:20 AM

Hey now you guys are making me feel like waiting a bit more till its cheap.

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MyWorstNightmar
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:42:59 PM

FF, I don't feel that they have to finish the game first, BUT, and this is a big BUT, I think the reviewer should state at the beginning of their review just how far they have played in the game. Then they are being up front, and the reader can choose to read the review based on the partial play through or not. I read Ben's review, and had the impression that he had finished the game. Only later in another article, to find out that he had NOT finished the game. I didn't like that. If he was my girlfriend, I would have withheld sex for a month....ok, a week.

In a game like FF, it is so long, and readers want a review "yesterday" if you know what I mean, and he didn't have the benefit of getting the game early.

I don't fault Ben, and the like, however, I do take issue with Ben never mentioning in his review that he had not finished the game at the time of his submitting the review.

Last edited by MyWorstNightmar on 4/1/2010 10:45:37 PM

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mastiffchild
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 8:13:38 AM

Thing is, the reviewers KNEW this would be a long game. thy also knew they weren't talking about a game that no one was interested in or one that we hadn't already heard spoken about by the Japanese media and Japanese gamers. No, this was a controversial, big name game that we were already well aware of the faults it contained so, to me, playing this one to a conclusion was a must if the reviewer was to add anything to the debate.

Seriously, which one of us couldn't have written a scathing review of this way before even starting it? We knew nearly everything didn't we? We knew the arguments about it's failings, when the game changes, when and what extra freedom Gran Pulse brings. We knew everything but what our feelings would be when we actually pl;ayed it all the way through ourselves and could look back to judge fairly.

In my eyes this is the game which shows exactly why a reviewer must, at least, have finished the main story of any game on their plate. Because this one was so high profile it almost negated the need for western reviews but we needed to see if there was a cultural difference which meant we westerners might like it more than most Japanese sites had and sites marking it on just twenty hours did us and the game a big disservice and would have been better just not bothering as what they said we already knew FFS.

I've done a lot of reviews for a lot of sites and for a lot of things(games to books to cars)but I've never reviewed anything like a game or film or book without at least getting to the end of the story. you need to do so to be fair to anyone who reads your piece and even more so if you're assigning a score. How can any score be fair if yo don't get to the end of the game? It's painfully obvious and, in my experience, jrpg/rpg game devs and pubs always give you the extra time to plough through their longer length before release anyway.

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tes37
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:43:45 PM
Reply

I have been running all over the place in Gran Pulse. I thought I managed to get myself lost at one point but got my bearings back a while later. I don't like maps that shift depending on which direction you're facing.

I still haven't used each character's Eidolon yet. I need to check that out soon.

If people wanted to change their review score they probably wouldn't admit it, but they should just man-up and say it if that's how they feel.

Last edited by tes37 on 4/1/2010 9:49:09 PM

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Jawknee
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:49:41 PM

I haven't even swapped out my team leader yet which is Lightening.

My team most of the time: Lightening, Vanille and Sazh.

Sometimes: Lightening, Hope and Snow.

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tes37
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:57:08 PM

I seem to have problems when I first change my team around until I get used to the way they work together. Sometimes I give up and go back to using Lightning as the leader with different combinations of characters, but mainly Hope and Fang.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:13:33 PM

Light, Hope, Fang, is the most effective team.

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AirplanePeanuts
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:20:48 PM

For me it's been Sazh (leader), Lightning and Vanille. I use Sazh as leader because I like his buffs but I hated the order he the AI applied them in (why are you giving Lightning Faith before Bravery?). Lightning is there for muscle and backup healing, and Vanille works as a ravager / healer and moonlights as a debuffer against the big foes.

(It's served me well so far)

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Mr Bitey
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:45:41 PM

Lighting, Fang, Hope FTW!

You have all of the roles covered. It gives you the most flexibility with the Paradigms. Also having 2 Medics, Ravengers, and Commandos works really well.

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:49:40 PM

For me its been Light, Snow, and Sazh.

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Vitron
Sunday, April 04, 2010 @ 2:46:06 AM

I just whack things: Lightning, Snow, Fang

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convergecrew
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:51:14 PM
Reply

I think the game deserves the low-80's score average. I just got to chapter 12, but so far its just fight fight fight. There hasnt been many other RPG elements to the game.

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Jawknee
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:53:03 PM

Almost like the game is one giant battle simulator with a few more bells and whistles.

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convergecrew
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:58:16 PM

The game is solid technically, but its so one-dimensional. The way the story is told makes me not care a bit about the characters plight. Moreover, theres are no story elements that would be handicapped by a non-linear story, which is contrary to what SE said. The game could be as wide open as any previous FF and they could easily tell the story to the same effect. Your characters dont even know what they are doing (as of ch. 12) so an open world environment would actually be more fitting in that you have to explore the world and find out what your Focus is.

Its still a fun game, but there are just too many disappointments this time around.

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I_defenestrate
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:14:16 PM

I absolutely agree with you. I got the game on release and haven't gotten past chapter 11 (not for a lack of time, I assure you.) I'm so tired of doing nothing but fight. I was into the story at first and that kept me going for a while, but now I look forward to a new game release to take a break and play something else. Here's what I have played instead so far:

Yakuza 3
God of War 3
BFBC2
Resonance of Fate (To decide if I wanted to buy. I did.)
Just Cause 2
Fable 2 (Yeah..I wanted to play Fable instead of FF. Never thought I'd say that.)



Last edited by I_defenestrate on 4/1/2010 11:20:39 PM

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Vitron
Sunday, April 04, 2010 @ 2:52:14 AM

I just Skipped some battles when I got to gran pulse and look how totally weak I got when I went to the tunnel. I really got frustrated when you're just forced to fight, fight, and fight without interrupting your crave for the story.

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Jawknee
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:52:11 PM
Reply

I don't think anyone should change their score. Final Fantasy XIII is a good game but it didn't deliver the way it should have and that's the reason for the disappointing scores. Square talked this game up like it was going to replace VII. Which it didn't. So far I'm finding this game only slightly more enjoyable then X-2. Largely because the story is great and i love the characters. Especially Vanille.

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ceedot
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:55:12 PM
Reply

why should a game get good after 20 hours?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:14:39 PM

so it doesn't suck the whole time?

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MyWorstNightmar
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:52:51 PM

Why should a game NOT get good after 20 hours.

You could just play a nice short 6 hour MW2 game if you prefer.

I am 26 hours in, I have enjoyed it all. But, this is my first FF game, so I have no previous reference. (I did play the first few hours of FFVII in 1997 before it was stolen! GASP!!)

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WolfCrimson
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:23:22 PM

PSN. FFVII. $13.99.

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piratedrunk
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:33:31 PM

I don't know about where you live but here it is $9.99 on the psn. Either way yes.. do that.

Last edited by piratedrunk on 4/1/2010 11:34:29 PM

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:54:14 PM

20 hours isn't even a day. Plus not everyone is saying its bad for the first 20 hours.... just alot are.

Just play and decide for yourself whats good and whats bad.

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:36:40 AM

To say the first 20 hours of FFXIII is not good is simply ignorant fanboyism.

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:09:29 AM

Kind of like your post?

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Arvis
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:30:33 AM

@Alienange:

Or, you know... an opinion. *shrugs*

-Arvis

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:47:59 PM

No Arvis. Saying something is not good is not an opinion. Saying you don't like a game because it's linear is an opinion.

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AirplanePeanuts
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 9:56:38 PM
Reply

On an aside, I didn't find your vulnerability while switching paradigms to be a flaw, but rather the "cost" of switching paradigms.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 12:31:47 AM

Why should there be a "cost?" If you were in battle and the leader just yelled out, "switch strategy!", how long would that take? Two seconds? And on top of which, would the fighters adopt a dumb pose at that moment, leaving them open to attack?

Just wondering.

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:38:04 AM

If I die during a paradigm shift, then it'll be a problem. So far that hasn't happened.

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johnld
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:07:49 AM

i got pissed off getting cheap hits when i paradigm shift at first. Then i found out that there isnt any down time if you paradigm shift right when your leader is in the middle of an attack.

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 3:13:05 AM

yes i try to switch at the last second of the leader attack. much quicker.

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AirplanePeanuts
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:41:01 AM

@Ben

Well I don't think in a real battle that teammates would be standing around waiting for their ATB gauge to fill, so I don't think realism is the issue. Seems to me they're trying to dissuade you from switching your paradigms too often.

As for the silly poses, well, that seems to be in keeping with franchise tradition.

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shadowscorpio
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 10:18:18 AM

@ Alienange

When i think about it that hasn't happened to me either. Wonder if there is some kind of safeguard while switching paradigms.

*spoiler*

btw has anyone gotten to the Titans challenge part of the hunts? I've noticed that some of the final challenges are simpler than others.

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 4/2/2010 10:31:58 AM

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piratedrunk
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 10:37:20 AM

Well really the only problem is the first shift of the fight after that each shift goes much faster.

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Highlander
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:08:04 PM
Reply

Why should I have to play 20 hours of a game just to get to the part that deserves a good review? That's just crap game design. Few except hard core FF fans and reviewers are going to persist for 20 hours playing a game that has yet to get 'good'. It really doesn't matter how good the rest of the game is because if I don't want to slog through 20 hours of less than stellar gaming, I'll NEVER know whether Gran Pulse if good or not.

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tes37
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:15:57 PM

I haven't made it past Gran Pulse to know if I've seen everything there or not, but so far it seems the same with bigger enemies and wide open spaces. The only difference to me is you're no longer having to run in a straight line.

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telly
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 12:56:19 AM

You are completely correct, Highlander. I am still in the first 10 hours myself and cannot BELIEVE how utterly terrible the game has been thus far. On principle, I am prepared to abandon this nonsense. I refuse to slog through HOUR after HOUR after HOUR of completely terrible gameplay for supposedly half-decent later sections. What kind of nonsense development is that?! Thanks for FF VII, Square -- NOW F*CK OFF. I am DONE with you.

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Mr Bitey
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:38:30 AM

The first 20 hours of the game are not horrible by any means. It's just more story driven. There are still epic battles and beautiful worlds along the way, it's just more linear.

Anyone who enjoyed FFX will enjoy XIII. If anything XIII is a lot less linear overall.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:17:22 PM
Reply

It's a great game that I can't stop playing (still grinding away at pulse) but for some reason I feel dirty after playing it.

Ups: Cool story, great characters, lots of action
Downs: Not an RPG, little strategy, FF elements missing.

I think most reviews should stay put. I'm still glad I have it to play and for my collection, but I expected too much and instead got this off-balance game. I have a feeling some day down the line I'll have more fun re-playing it without any high expectations. I just can't say enough about how many mixed feelings the game gives me.

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piratedrunk
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:20:38 PM

I agree that the reviews should stay put. I love this game but feel that many of the critical points brought up were valid and SE should take them seriously to really improve their next games.

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MyWorstNightmar
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:58:02 PM

World, of course you feel dirty. You play it for so long without cleaning yourself. You have been stewing in your own sweat, and you undoubtably eat while playing, so you have chicken grease all over your shirt.

There is a reason your avatar only shows from your nose up. Your mouth has a dirty ring of chocolate and BBQ sauce around it, and below that you look like Pigpen. Good god man, and you wonder why your single?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:05:07 PM

Jesus dude, what did I ever do to you?

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MyWorstNightmar
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:11:26 PM

I raz the ones I love.

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Oxvial
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:49:07 PM

Eeew damn I didn't know about your secret World, you need to stop playing that game is ruining you.

Last edited by Oxvial on 4/1/2010 11:49:45 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:53:25 PM

Sorry, I forgot to empty my poop&pee bags as well.

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:59:41 PM

I agree. Though i did come into playing ff 13 with an open mind, being a major fan like many people here , i couldn't help but have expectations that weren't met.

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BikerSaint
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:40:20 PM
Reply

Just to play the devil's advocate here,
I wonder if any reviewer's would have given it an even lower score if they had played through the whole game, just because they could see 1/2 of the game was truly cut out their game-play??

(BTW, as for myself, I can't say one way or another what my actual reaction to the game-play would have been, seeing as how I'm in no rush to own it yet)

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Naztycuts
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:51:57 PM
Reply

You forgot to mention the obvious cheating that the AI is doing continuously.

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MyWorstNightmar
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 10:59:43 PM

Expound upon your assertion please.

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Naztycuts
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:17:23 PM

I get trapped by things in Gran Pulse that I'm apparently not strong enough to kill, but theres no way around and I can't grind to get by there either so its frustrating, I got it at launch and made it to Gran Pulse about 5 days later, that's where I've been getting destroyed by everything. I am going to take another shot at it after I try to get my 1st plat on Just Cause 2.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:56:16 PM

If you keep at updating your crystarium you will get strong, but don't think you can just take on a Behemoth King (After it recharges)or Adamantoise even at a decent level, because you can't.

That said, the game does cheat rather cruelly sometimes, and I feel in that sense and the sense where your leader dies and you all die, the game is just broken. I can get completely wiped out by a bunch of cheaters in one battle, then I hit the retry and I wipe them out in under ten seconds. There just shouldn't be THAT much of an expanse between winning a battle and losing a battle. The gap is massive and no amount of strategy you can implement will help when it decides to cheat.

True turn based is always better.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/1/2010 11:56:37 PM

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:21:03 AM

I hate it when you get caught in this pattern were you need to constantly heal. It happens a lot were the rhythm of the battle will force you to take the next 20 turns healing over and over and over.

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Naztycuts
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 7:46:41 AM

@Jawknee I like how you worded that the 'rhythm' of the game. It's very apt in describing XIII, as the action does have a sense of timing to it as far as the paradigm shifts are concerned.

@World Thanks for admitting the game has cheaters, it's also good to know I'm not the only one who gets wiped out cheaply and comes back and beats the culprits in 10 seconds.

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Vitron
Sunday, April 04, 2010 @ 3:12:08 AM

Hey, is there a hi-potion on this game? A potion is getting useless when you reach gran pulse even if you equip a doctor's code

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Mr Bitey
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:42:24 PM
Reply

I'm almost done with Eden (Chapter 12). I think I've put in 60 hours or so. I've done about 30 side missions, and there are tons to do post game.

At the moment, I would give FF13 a 9.5. It does have a few faults, mainly pacing. The game's strengths more than make up for it though.

IMO 13>12. 12 did have a nice big world, but weaker story and characters.

Last edited by Mr Bitey on 4/1/2010 11:46:55 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, April 01, 2010 @ 11:58:20 PM
Reply

The BIGGEST problem with FFXIII is that in previous entries, XII most notably, the women all had a nice hourglass figure with some juice in the caboose. Lightning and Fang are straight-hipped like preteen boys. At least Vanille has a little waggle. ;)

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/1/2010 11:58:55 PM

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 12:04:05 AM

haha Yea she does! Vanille is great.

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Scarecrow
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 12:56:47 AM

Fran is only second to Yuna in my book
Most daring, different, CUTE, female character Squeeenix has made since Yuna

lol@"straight-hipped like preteen boys"

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:21:22 AM

Quistis FTW!

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Scarecrow
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:32:08 AM

The FFVIII cast is one of my faves, no doubt!

Quistis is such a great character
Really like the fact that she's actually as original as it gets

An Instructor, fights with a whip, is strict yet emotional*

Man! Love that game

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:10:34 AM

Her glass' and her uniform are sexy.

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XxNoir
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 5:59:16 AM

Rinoa heartilly,nuff said.

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FullmetalX10
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 6:19:42 AM

Teenage Kairi FTW!! whut, I'm no pedofile yet...
Alright, from the one final fantasy I've played, FFX, I liked Rikku, she didn't have much chest, but she was cute and fun.

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Irievibes
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:34:49 AM

am i the only one that had a fantasy with Lulu here? imo Lulu and yuna where the all time babes on FF , id still keep Lulu though

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Arvis
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:36:12 AM

I think Penelo would make the best girlfriend material, personally. :)

Sweet, sensible, and a little sexy.

-Arvis

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:46:46 PM

Quistis=sexy teacher fantasy
Rinoa=dumb girl fantasy
Lulu=Big breasts fantasy
Yuna=Change an innocent into a hoochie fantasy
Penelo=Best female friend Fantasy

I could go on and on... heh :)

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shadowscorpio
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 6:02:29 PM

@ World

Surprised you didn't include Tifa of Aeris/Aerith in your short list.

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telly
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 12:51:19 AM
Reply

Uh, as someone still toiling in the first 10 hrs? This game will have to have the most remarkable turnaround I have ever seen in a game for me to give it anything higher than a VERY low score. I don't care how pretty it is, this game thus far is a DISASTER. And this comes from someone who grew up adoring FF as much as ANYONE. At this point I can't believe I wasted 60 bucks on this garbage. How great could it be later on to justify HOURS upon HOURS of horsesh*t? Epic Fail, Square-Enix. EPIC FAIL.

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:18:16 AM

haha it does get better. But not much. This is not Final Fantasy as far as im concerned. Who ever decided to go this difference and drastic route should be fired from Square.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:47:31 PM

Wada sucks

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Vitron
Sunday, April 04, 2010 @ 2:56:29 AM

I pray this was only an experiment for 13vs and Agito, right possibly include 15

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Scarecrow
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 12:58:19 AM
Reply

Personally, I just want Squeeenix to start showing concept art/screenshots of Final Fantasy XV

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:11:42 AM

Do you know something we don't know? you act as if they are already working on it.

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www
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:17:20 AM

Yea Scarecrow! XV here XV there, what do you know? You should be talking about Versus XIII instead.

Last edited by www on 4/2/2010 4:18:13 AM

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kraygen
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:01:22 AM
Reply

I don't really think the reviewers should change their scores. Thinking about all the things that make up their score, most shouldn't change. Music, gameplay, characters, they'd all be the same. The only difference would be that you can free roam.

It seems to me regardless of whether you like the 20 hr tutorial the game is fun afterwords, but still not a ff game regardless.

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___________
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:24:30 AM
Reply

i thought it was ok to review games without finishing them.
anyway i stick by what i said about FFXIII there is not one person i know who has really enjoyed the game.
not saying its a bad game, because thats not true, but everyone i have spoken to says it is by far the worst in the series.
ill give FFVXIII a shot when it comes out, but im really lost on the FF series i havent really enjoyed a FF game since the ps1 era.

one game i would like to see come back though is digemon, now there was a proper open world RPG.

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Scarecrow
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:34:35 AM

"digemon" :O

I think I gotta give you thumbs up for that!

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___________
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 8:15:06 AM

im surprised anyone remembers that, it was the 2nd game i got for my ps1 o so long ago.
funny i cant remember what i had for breaky yesterday, but i can remember that.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:48:43 PM

that the same as Digimon? I wish that show was still one.

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:51:40 AM
Reply

I'm enjoying the straightforwardness of FFXIII. The story gets told. I get awesome battles. I get to buy stuff. I get to open treasures. I like it.

If reviewers want to take it upon themselves as professionals to write a review for a game that they know little about, well, that's their prerogative. I also feel quite embarrassed for them when they do.

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johnld
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:23:19 AM
Reply

*spoiler*

kindda off topic, does every adamantoise turn into long guis after you finish all the mark missions? Im just asking because i found this great place to farm cp and component for gil. Im trying to farm as much gil components to get the best weapons.

Its the place in eden when the adamantoise falls through the floor. using connoseur and collectors catalog along with the growth egg, this is the place to go. all you have to do is beat an adamantoise, 2 humbaba(behemoth like monsters), and about 4 to 7 soldiers. those behemoth look alikes are pretty easy to preemtive strike so they're no problem.

all you have to do is get vanille to summon eidolon to take out adamantoise's legs and get rid of the eidolon right away. then have hope as synergist and fang and vanille as sabotours and just keep spamming death on it. once thats done, all you have to do is fight till you get 3 TP, save then quit. reload and they respawn again. just keep repeating this. usually in about 2 hours max, i maxed out my cp point reserves. Thats if you have the growth egg of course. you get about 120000cp per run.

If you have the connoseur and collectors catalog, you also get credit and incentive chips and if you're lucky platinum ingots (150000gil). At one time i got 36 Plat ingots and 80 credit and incentives a piece.

I kept hearing that gran pulse is the best place to farm but eden seems to have more spoils plus you dont have to run around as much. I just thought i should let you guys know. got all my characters maxed out and now working on marks and weapon upgrades.

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CHAOS THEORY X
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 3:47:59 AM
Reply

Ive played and played... I shouldnt have to wait near the end for it to get good. Actually been playing FF VIII recently and everytime I play it I get hooked right away... not anything like FF XIII. "Just wait it gets REALLY good at the end!"...I am not wasting my time just to get to the END of a game...

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FullmetalX10
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 6:27:47 AM
Reply

As for reviewers writing a review before they have finished the game, I think it's ok, if the reviews are like here on PSXE, I mean for games like Final Fantasy, it takes a lot of time to finish one, and since gamers want it as quickly as possible they don't really have a choice, I for one wouldn't mind waiting an extra two-three days, since I usually buy games regardless (I choose wisely, that's why I have 90% exclusives), I just read reviews as a check-up on how other people think of the game I liked, or maybe even, with a slight chance disliked.

As for FFXIII, still haven't played it yet, I think my friend got bored with it, he isn't at Gran Pulse yet and he keeps saying he's too lazy to play it, so I'm guessing what most of you have said about the first 20 hours is true.

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OhYessss
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 6:41:16 AM
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I really don't rate FF games, and I'm bound to get stick for that, but I do think however a reviewer should play a majority of a game before they review it. Consider deadlines, but enforce quality.

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JackC8
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 6:52:21 AM
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I trust the reviews on this site, and if you guys want to take an extra week or two to do a review of a AAA RPG that takes many hours to finish, that's perfectly fine with me.

As far as other sites, it doesn't make much difference to me if they spend 10 hours or 60 hours with a game, I just don't share the reviewer's opinions. I've wasted too much time with games that got a 9.5 only to discover they're basically crap. Most of the games I really love get scores no higher than 8.5. They criticize games for stuff that, after spending 200 hours with a game, make no sense at all to me. So no, I don't care if they revise their reviews - the only use I have for them is to see some gameplay footage.

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www
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 7:10:35 AM
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Some sites might want to retract their scores and give a new one. Tekken 6 needs this a lot too.

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Captain Cod
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 7:32:25 AM
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Only problem is, I hate the exploration & grinding in FFXII.

I probably won't really mind the first 20 hours of FFXIII then.

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The_Benny
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 8:34:41 AM
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I'm not sure it's that big an issue. I plucked thirteen reviews out of Metacritic, from the highest rated down through to the lowest, and all mentioned when the game opens up within 20-30 hours or how long before you get full control over your party. If they didn't finish the game then they did at least seem to get past the point when everybody says the game changes.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 10:19:39 AM

I hate to tell you this, but it was common knowledge. Just because a review mentioned it doesn't mean the critic actually got there...

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The_Benny
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 11:36:36 AM

I disagree. It's not just that all thirteen mentioned it, it's that almost all of them talk about it as a personal experience, whether it was a relief to get there, if the change of pace is welcome or not, or even what happens after that point. I think it's more likely they actually played the game at least that far (and likely to conclusion) rather than that they actively lied.

I know Destructoid didn't finish it but reached the final boss. Wired sunk 45 hours into the import copy before playing the US. The Escapist mentioned that the linearity all makes sense once you're past that point but is annoying until then. GamePro talks about exactly what happens in the transition from chapters 10 to 11. VideoGamer breaks it down into the exact points it allowed the reviewer to do certain things. Edge goes on to talk about what happens after it opens up. GamesRadar mentions how impactful it is when you reach Grand Pulse and everything opens up because of how linear and closed-in it is to that point. 1UP talks about how limiting the first ten chapters are before it opens up. IGN (not sure if it was US or UK) talks about their disappointment about how the game handles saves upon completion. GameSpot mentions how the story suffers a bit once the game opens up. The other IGN (again either US or UK) mentions that the game feels a bit lifeless in the open areas. Eurogamer mentions how that point feels almost like a mistep and welcomed when it was over and "you're back on the hamster-wheel of story".

CVG is the only where there was maybe some wiggle room, talking it opening up in a more impersonal fashion that doesn't go into any detail to be sure they passed it. Maybe I happened to pick those few who did complete the game (I did prioritise large publications over ones I'd not heard of) and if I'd gone through all 72 it would have been different, but along with PSXE those thirteen sites probably cover the most influential reviews in terms of audience size.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 12:09:01 PM

I will tell you from personal experience that some of those never reached Gran Pulse. Much of review writing can be very creative if it needs to be...it can easily build off what other people have written.

I hate to say this because it paints critics in a bad light but it does happen. I can write a review that 100% convinces you I played and completed a game, but in fact, I never touched it. I've never DONE that and I never WILL; I'm just saying I could. So could others...

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The_Benny
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 1:55:55 PM

What personal experience, if you don't mind me asking? You're not just saying that journalists don't finish games before they review (which I'm not convinced about in general but isn't a problem if they're honest about it) but that they actively lie about it (and praising or criticising parts you've not experienced would absolutely be a lie).

In this case we're talking large sites/magazines that employ a bunch of people specifically for reviews as well as taking on freelancers, with FFXIII review code being sent out up to two weeks in advance. I don't think it's unrealistic to think some reviewers managed to find thirty hours to put in before the embargo lifted.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:51:07 PM

A good writer is a fantastic faker :)

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:51:54 PM

I tend to agree with The_Benny. I mean if your JOB is to review games, it take two MAYBE three days to get 20 hours into a game. Unless reviewers only work 4 hour days it would only make sense. And don't tell me they had other things to do at work because no, they didn't

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:07:24 PM

I'm sorry Alienange, are you trying to tell me what I work on every day? Are you people somehow forgetting that a critic typically has a lot more than ONE game to review at any given time? And let's not forget that it's hardly their only job? They probably have about a dozen other articles or other things for the site/mag that needs to be done. I don't think enough of you are actually getting this.

Benny: What I'm telling you is that I know of reviewers YOU probably know who have issued reviews of games without completing them, and they commented on sections they never saw. I'm not telling you it's common; I'm telling you it was far more likely to happen with FFXIII, which is long and also released during a time when there would be a lot of work for critics. That's all I'm saying.

Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 4/2/2010 9:08:40 PM

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The_Benny
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:34:54 PM

Well I'll have to take your word on that because I don't think it would be right to expect you to name names and I can hardly claim to be more familiar with gaming journalism than you.

Would you agree though that it's less likely at the big sites? They're not like PSXE where you have one person handling the majority of the news, features, reviews, previews and managing the community, a ridiculous load that you handle well. There are community moderators, news editors, freelancers pitching features, specialist reviewers etc. in addition to the general staff.

As an example with easy to access information (all content there can be filtered by type and by person), Eurogamer (15 full staff and 12 regular contributors, as well as some other regular freelancers) has 31 reviews up for the past month from 13 reviewers, full time and freelance. The person who reviewed FFXIII for them (a fulltime staff member) reviewed nothing else for a month before the review went live and contributed no previews, features, editorials etc. during that time, just a couple of news items a day. Even allowing for the likelihood that his job involves more than just what makes it onto the site it seems likely there was more than enough time to play the game for as long as the review suggests.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:53:07 PM

Of course, if a source has the resources, I don't expect this to be the case.

But the number of smaller sites like ours vastly outnumber the larger sites and when Metacritic and GameRankings count review scores, the majority are from those with less resources. Therefore, I consider the question legitimate. I wasn't asking if GameSpot or Eurogamer wanted to change their score, no.

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The_Benny
Saturday, April 03, 2010 @ 7:34:09 AM

I think we're in agreement now then. I imagine most (if not all) the big sites I mentioned a couple of posts up did reach that point and probably finished the game too, which is what I thought we were disagreeing on. It could definitely be a different case for the sites with smaller teams, but I'd like to think they either wouldn't talk about that point without playing it (like in your review) or at least keep from making it seem like a personal experience ("By all accounts the game opens up towards the end of the game but it's a long linear road before that"). Not completing a game isn't much of an issue but being dishonest about it is.

I do think that a majority of gamers who pay attention to reviews would have started from the big sites, and as those thirteen reviews went all the way from the best scores to the worst I don't know how much of a difference it would make to the Metacritic if other sites changed their reviews after finishing the game. Some might bump it up a point, some lower it, and others feel comfortable with the score they gave it as it still applies to the majority of the game. I'd like to think that if somebody really felt that chapter eleven does significantly improve/change the game then they would at least put up something discussing it, even if it's not a full re-review. Perhaps I'm just optimistic.

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Irievibes
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 8:46:39 AM
Reply

it could have a 6 or a 9 as a score, my opinion of the game still stands....a collosal waste of cash wich i wont buy until i see cheap or preowned somewhere, too much eye candy , too lil actual game on it, and i flat out refuuuuuse to watch 15 hours of cgi, with 50 mins of fights spread out on it..

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:51:37 PM

but its so pretty.

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telly
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 3:57:32 PM

Haha.

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:34:32 AM
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It's surprising to see so many jrpg lovers hate on FFXIII as if somehow no other jrpg has been linear for it's first 20 hours.

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:57:59 AM

The game being linear isn't an issue, at least for me. Too much of the gameplay was taken away from the player. X was just a linear but it was more fun because we had control. Not so in XIII. Like World said, the battle system is broken. The AI does everything and ending the game when the party leader falls is just stupid. The gameplay is unbalenced.

Last edited by Jawknee on 4/2/2010 10:00:01 AM

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shadowscorpio
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 10:38:31 AM

@ Jawknee

I agree.

You know the LEAST they could've done is give you the option to switch party leaders during battle and/or switch leader once previous leader gets KO'd.

If all members get ko'd fine but the hell with this leader dies and game is over crap. So far I think everyone hates this aspect of the game.

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Jawknee
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 11:37:59 AM

Yup, allowing us to switch leader mid battle and ending the game only if the entire party is dead would have made all the difference for me.

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:54:39 PM

I agree with you. The game over because of the leader dying is nonsense and makes the game harder than it should be. I was talking about the people complaining about the linearity though. Of which there are a lot.

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slimey
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:34:57 AM
Reply

maybe its ok to not finish a game prior to reviewing it. After all, unlike with movies for instance, a lot a gamers will purchase a game, get several hours in and then give up, for a variety of reasons. So the reviewer not finishing a game would reflect reality, but they should explicitly say that they haven't finished the game and indicate whether they will be bothered to do so.

Anyway, I finished FFXIII. I found it compelling, despite all the reservations everyone has and which I wouldn't dispute. There is a small upside to the linear nature of the first half of the game - I appreciated not having to do do much grinding. On the other hand, I would have liked the opportunity to chill and do other stuff than corridor crawl for 20 hours

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:55:49 PM

I was trying to read what you wrote there but my mind kept drifting towards the DQ games and the lack of them on PS3.

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OPHIDIAN
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 9:35:32 AM
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I'm not up to 20 hours yet, but I'm loving it!

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Imagi
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 10:11:33 AM
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Will this get a GOTY release? If so will it cut the crap and just let me play the good bit at the end?

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main_event05
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 11:00:36 AM
Reply

I will. I picked it up yesterday. Its not half as bad as i thought i would be. i'm just at the part where they save sara(h). But so far so good.

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Mavfan321
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 11:03:39 AM
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I still want to eventually play FF XIII but the whole it's not a FF experience delays my interest more and more. My birthday is in June, and I'm opting for Red Dead Redemtion and Infamous most likely.

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David Macphail
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:00:49 PM
Reply

I tell you what, i'd rather play through a 20 - hour tutorial in the form of a JRPG then put up with the crap that comes out of western studio's anyday of the week. Garbage like Borderlands and Mass Effect can go take a running jump, they don't have the right to call themselves games let alone RPG's.

I would say that WRPG's are dead but the truth is WRPG's were never really alive. No western RPG has ever or will ever achieve the kinds of sales success that real RPG's such as Pokemon and Final Fantasy achieve with every installment.

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Arvis
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:15:46 PM

Ok, but by Squenix's own admission, their goal with FFXIII was to take the "J" OUT of "JRPG." From your narrow-minded and unbalanced post, it seems like you should be pretty dissatisfied with XIII and Squenix.

-Arvis

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Alienange
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:59:05 PM

Bad mouthing western rpgs that way is a new low even for the psxe crowd.

I love them buddy so take your J and shove it.

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Fane1024
Sunday, April 04, 2010 @ 2:17:59 AM

Western RPGs are and always have been closer to REAL RPGs than any JRPG. To argue otherwise simply displays ignorance.

RPGs existed before Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy; defining the term RPG by those games is like defining the term FPS by Halo.

Pokemon? Seriously?

MacFail.

Oh, and WOW begs to differ with your claims about sales numbers.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 4/4/2010 2:21:57 AM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 2:54:51 PM
Reply

Well, it's like I always said, even the worst that Final Fantasy has to offer is still better than most. I just hope with Versus and XV they have a decent enough grasp on the technology to make us a real RPG that doesn't cut corners.

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telly
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:00:07 PM

Cut corners -- couldn't say it any better than that. Simply stroking the x button semi-quickly for 10 hours barely qualifies as video game, let alone a Final Fantasy title worthy of the name. I'll push on and play at least a bit more of this game, but so far I'm just baffled that THIS disaster is What S-E has sunk years and countless dollars into.

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just2skillf00l
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 3:27:49 PM
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FF13 is a good game in general but lacking when compared with earlier FF titles. I've said this and will continue to say it time and time again, the combat approach is a big let down. Nothing beats the old-school turn-based system. Nothing.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 3:29:41 PM
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Xbots gotta be thinking "Why do sony people love these games so much?"

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formerroadie
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 3:51:36 PM
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This game is by far my favorite PS3 game. I have no idea what people were complaining about. Seriously, do they want the same game over and over again? The whole point of the FF series is innovation and changing things up. People didn't say, "MGS4 is too linear and therefore sucks!" Whatever. If it had another name on the cover, it would have gotten 10's by some reviewers. I give it a 10 and did so from the beginning, SO THERE!

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Arvis
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 3:59:33 PM

Whoa! We got told, I guess...

-Arvis

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WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:04:48 PM

yes, we want the same game (elements) over and over again because you can't fix perfection.

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Irievibes
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:41:40 PM

no i just want a game, not a movie that i press x every now and then and call it a video game...blue rays cost 25 bucks ya know ...ff 60 , "the failure within begins" should be what the commercials say, cuz there seems to be a whole lot of fail in square enix as of late....just cause impressed me though , credit for that squeenix

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Irievibes
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:44:16 PM

mgs4 is not linear btw, the replay value alone is better than FF's , as i doubt anyone would slog thru the 20 hour movie marathon twice. there is CHOICE in mgs4 as to how i want to complete objectives, there IS NONE in FF, its just a linear progression till the end of the game and even then its just repeating what you have done 1000 times over by then when you get to gran pulse

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shadowscorpio
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 6:06:58 PM

@ formerroadie

I think its just difficult to generalize because everone is different and everyone plays their RPG's/JRPG's a little different and is satisfied or dissatisfied with diffferent things.

Did that make sense? :)

btw are you new to the Final Fantasy franchise?

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Snaaaake
Friday, April 02, 2010 @ 4:47:19 PM
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FFXIII is just too linear and if it isn't for the fun battle system I think I would have given up on it by now.

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slimey
Saturday, April 03, 2010 @ 5:13:08 AM
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surely SquareEnix missed a trick not including a game+ option, to let you run through the game lumping the bosses?

I thought the story & characters were a new low for FF, but the ending was pretty effective

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RebelJD
Sunday, April 04, 2010 @ 2:33:40 AM
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I do believe some games need more attention paid to them more than others. Especially if a game is as long as 90 hours of game play. Some games do progress effectively and get better level by level. Other games start off awesome and leave you feeling insulted and bored when the end finally comes.

I started noticing a trend with critics, they keep their reviews vague and general. It makes me wonder if they even pressed start on the damn game they just wrote a review on! Other critics are overly bias and harm the games potential of NOT being overlooked. Then you find a few genuine reviews that one can tell were written from experience.

Overall, as readers the best way to get a "complete" review is to read countless reviews and compare. That's where Metacritic comes into play, unfortunately.

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DeathOfChaos
Monday, April 05, 2010 @ 9:04:35 AM
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Taking 20-25 hours to get to an AREA that makes a game good doesn't quite necessarily make the game good. Just makes that area good, lol.

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Project_Xii
Sunday, April 11, 2010 @ 9:55:57 AM
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I tried. I really tried. I even wrote about my experience:
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Random-Ravings/The-FFXIII-Experience-Hiatus

That was the farewell blog, where I gave up towards the end of Chapter 9 (the previous blogs are all linked in there). So even I was unable to finish the game and write a complete review.

Considering this WAS my FFXIII review score, I certainly can't retract it. You can't get much more honest then direct experience. The worst FF ever.

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