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Dear Square-Enix: Your Fans Miss You

We've all addressed the subject - in one form or another - when Final Fantasy XIII launched - but I don't think it really hit home until I wrote that article about Square-Enix's new Extreme Edges label. Plus, it's something that Arnold and I spoke briefly about on IM last night.

Comparing the old Squaresoft to the new Square-Enix is a long, exhausting process that is often fraught with personal bias and the decision to ignore changing market trends. We are gamers and journalists; we are not big business executives and the last time I checked, a company as large as Square-Enix most likely has some very talented and capable individuals in its employ. They don't make decisions at random. They don't go out of their way to annoy people. To believe any of that is just the bitterness talking, and we have to concede that Square-Enix's business practices are, for the most part, beyond our inexperienced critique. Therefore, we can only view this from a fan standpoint, right? But even when we do that, we seem to come to the same conclusion: that Square-Enix has somehow managed to alienate many of its long-time hardcore fans.

Yes, many Japanese companies have desperately been trying to expand westward and appeal to North American and European audiences; hence, the significant change in gameplay and style in certain big-name titles (like FFXIII). But at what point did those who made so many Squaresoft gems successes in all parts of the world stop playing games? At what point did all their preferences and opinions shift gears? It'd be one thing if Square-Enix - and other Japanese designers - continued to make games in the style their fans recognize and love, along with some new projects. But it almost seems as if they've entirely abandoned any and all "old" formulas and rushed into the more-action, less-strategy realm. I suppose, as a Western gamer, I should take offense to this, as it essentially insinuates that we're just plain...dumber. If you look at Square-Enix's adjustments, you will see how Japan views this audience: as a group dominated by action and FPS fans who can't sit still for two and a half seconds.

But again, this would almost be understandable if they had simply branched out. But they didn't branch out. They overhauled their entire approach. The only conclusion one can reach is that they honestly do believe that the millions of gamers who rewarded them for their JRPGs in the PlayStation era really want something "new and improved." Their idea is that nobody wants turn-based. Nobody wants traditional. Nobody wants anything they've ever seen before because we Westerners are just too impatient. But is this right? Do the sales reflect this belief? I'm not sure they do...and while I'm also not sure there are enough of us left to warrant something like a Final Fantasy VII remake, I refuse to believe we've all changed. But then again, maybe they don't care. Maybe they're going after a different demographic...but isn't that still turning your back on those who loved you to pieces at one point?

I just don't know. I know we can't get Squaresoft back. I know few want turn-based or other traditional RPG themes to return. But I wonder how "few" there really are, that's all.

4/27/2010 9:26:16 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (122 posts)

Jawknee
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:13:45 PM
Reply

::sigh::

The more i play XIII the more i dislike it. What a poor excuse for a Final Fantasy. At this rate, I'm afraid well never see a game like Final Fantasy VII out of Square again. They are quickly becoming an arm of MS. If the rumors of a new Valkyrie Profile being a 360 exclusive are true, their sell out will be official.

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SmokeyPSD
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:32:08 PM

*Jaw drop*

that is NOT COOL if this is true, REALLY not FING COOL.

ARGH, I haven't even bought XIII as I dont intend on paying the current price for where there's things of better value right now, everywhere.

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telly
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:06:54 PM

Anyone who plays as much as it seems you have deserves a f*cking medal as far as I'm concerned. The five or so hours I persevered through were agony and I can't, I WON'T go any further. I had planed on spending the month of May enjoying the latest FF. Instead I'm running through all the previous Metal Gear Solid (numbered) entries in anticipation of Peace Walker.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:37:45 PM

johnld has played it more then me. He deserves more credit. :)

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shadowpal2
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:08:16 AM

Well that's certainly not cool if the new Valkyrie Profile is 360 exclusive. Just guess who it will not be cool for...SQUARE ENIX and WADA KUN. That's right. I said it!

I remember about a year or some months ago Wada kun commenting on how Japan, Japanese gamers, and developers were all *insert word that means too stuck on past and is developing games wrong*

By developing games wrong Wada kun means that they should serve the west...the west...the west. WADA...WAKE THE **** UP ALREADY!!! HONESTLY DAMN IT WAKE UP!!!! Who on earth said that the west did not love SquareSoft's work? WHO?!?!?! In fact FFVII was one of the first games that were to introduce us to JRPGs and Japanese gaming here in the west - am I not right on this?

So yes we miss SquareSoft...but quite frankly with them digging the grave for themselves - I don't care. I don't have any stock invested in that company. Once a company begins to talk about what gamers should like...it's a moronic company - that's that.

LET THE CONSUMERS DECIDE WHAT THEY LIKE...AND ANALYZE IT CAREFULLY...for Wada kun...he'll need to get homework on this issue for about 7 months before he can slightly understand.

TREAT YOUR MAIN FANBASE!!! Take a few lessons from Kojima sama. Look at him...all that man is doing is providing fan treatment by adding such ingenious tie-ins with Peace Walker: Monster Hunter and another one which I unfortunately forget...I think a MECH thing...

But it's treating the fans. Giving us random cardboard boxes, giving us ridiculous gadgets, giving us 30-40 hours on a PSP GAME!!!

LEARN SQUARE ENIX...watch and learn...

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johnld
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:32:19 AM

im gonna play FF13 some more later but first i gotta finish resonance of fate and probably get modnation racers. I usually keep playing a game because i hate seeing a trophy completion of below 50%. it just irritates me for some reason. white knight chronicles is a lost cause since its gonna take a while to get trophies. mirrors edge is also lost because i cant stand the game.

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main_event05
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:28:28 AM

i haven't touched ff13 since 7 and 8 finished downloading more than a month ago.

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Vitron
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 6:02:51 AM

Rest in Peace Squaresoft...

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Imagi
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 9:43:47 AM

MS is nothing more than infection, the quicker you cut it out the better chance you have.

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Mr Bitey
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 10:04:48 AM

M$'s "exclusives" consist of delaying the PS3 version for a year to six months. Their too cheap to buy full out exclusivity.

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Scarecrow
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:44:49 PM

We need the old Nintendo back

The one which actually stepped up to the plate and faced off with Sony FIERCELY

Seriously, I've never liked Microsoft getting into the v-game world. Specially after the quality of the consoles are garbage, and most of its game cater to guns, blood, and a camera walking around.

I'd rather have colorful, vibrant, artistic masterpieces from Nintendo!!!

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Jawknee
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 1:21:32 PM

I liked the days of Sony vs Nintendo more too. They seemed to be more civil with one another and just told us why their products are good. Now we have Sony and MS, Sony mostly civil and still tells us why Sony is good but we have MS sending out their legion of trolls, not to tell us why MS is good but why we shouldn't buy Sony. Not to mention all the timed exclusives bribes they throw around. it distorts the market. MS almost reminds me of some government agency getting involved in a market place they know nothing about.

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Rings0fUranus
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 4:03:14 PM

where did you hear the new valkrie profile going 360 exclusive?

also, i agree FFXIII sucks. it's the only game i've literally fallen asleep whilst playing. the repetitive corridors finally did me in. and it's a shame because i own EVERY FF ever made, and is one of my favorite series. i wanted so bad to get to gran pulse, you know, to see how the whole game should have been, but alas, i'm not wearing the girdle of willpower +10.
i'm wearing the soiled undies of disappointment +5.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 6:20:51 PM

I first heard it from a poster here then i googled it and it seems hes not the only one whos heard this.

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Nynja
Friday, April 30, 2010 @ 3:27:00 PM

@Jawknee;

After the less than stellar sales figures for the 360 version of FFXIII, I highly doubt SE would make VP an exclusive for MS's system.

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just2skillf00l
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:15:29 PM
Reply

Have we really seen a true turn-based JRPG this gen from Square? If so, I'm completely out of the loop. Wait, ignoring Square for a second, have we seen a great turn-based JRPG this gen, period?! If so, please someone point me in the right direction, for I am a lost turn-based JRPG fan...

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johnld
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:29:39 PM

white knight chronicles is the closest that we have, taking account i'm only counting the good ones.

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noodles619
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:48:03 PM

If you're willing to get a 360, then I'd suggest Lost Oddyssey.

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Arvis
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 8:16:11 AM

Resonance of Fate is SORT OF turn-based...

-Arvis

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King James
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 1:35:38 AM

Lost Odyssey. Made by former Square boss. Great RPG. Ask Ben. I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned it in this post.

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FxTales
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:18:10 PM
Reply

I'm still undecided as to whether I should play it.

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Jawknee
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:22:51 PM

XIII? Play it but don't expect much. It's a pretty battle simulator with nice characters and a decent story. Wait until its cheap or you can barrow it from a friend.

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johnld
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:33:43 PM

I would advise a purchase because the story is pretty good. you also might want to get a rapid controller because sometimes the fighting just gets tedious. i was thinking of buying one because i have to farm stuff to get gil. if i find a good one then i can play this game no problem while watching a movie. unlike previous final fantasies though, leveling up doesnt make much of a difference. Maxing out your character doesnt make your character god-like, it just gives you a couple more hits before you need to heal. and thats only if you have protection spells active.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:58:55 AM

It's basically my least favorite FF but it's still one of the better games you can buy. The best CGI you'll ever see so far this gen (not really surprising), sky-high production values, etc.

But the game didn't really grab me until I got to Gran Pulse. And even then, there's the combat system that works really well, but I don't particularly like...

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Vitron
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 6:08:43 AM

True, I wasn't impressed that much in FF13.
Its really hard to watch your own battle if your focus is giving commands all the time.

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Heartless Angel
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:24:57 PM
Reply

This is the proverbial history repeating itself. Haven’t they learned from the history of Final Fantasy. They tried to make it more appealing to western gamers and what happened? Remember Final Fantasy Mystic Quest that thing crapped up big time. Go back to the way things are. If they have to experiment or try to get western gamers into the SE gravy boat make a new title leave Final Fantasy or other landmark Squaresoft games alone. I miss the good old days, if you screwed up you are obligated to perform seppuku, metaphorical or not, to your honor.

Last edited by Heartless Angel on 4/27/2010 10:29:18 PM

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King James
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 1:38:53 AM

I didn't read your post. I mentioned FF:MC in my comment further down. You took the words right outta my mouth. History is repeating itself again.

Last edited by King James on 4/29/2010 1:40:01 AM

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johnld
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:35:25 PM
Reply

i miss squaresoft, not square enix. last final fantasy i loved playing was final fantasy X when they were still squaresoft.

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Qwarktast1c
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:57:48 PM

i couldn't agree with you more!
squaresoft was THE BOMB!
square enix seems like its just bombing, lol

Last edited by Qwarktast1c on 4/27/2010 10:58:59 PM

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Jawknee
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:14:51 PM

Square Enix at first didn't seem so bad. Dragon Quest VIII is on of my favorite RPG's and that Itadaki Street Special looked pretty cool. maybe those was just the last remnants of Squaresoft dying off.

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wakkaoaka
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:44:52 PM

amen to that, ffx-2 was ok, managed to complete it, but ffxii was a snorefest for me... ffx was and still is my favorite game. The story really has to connect with you, and the gameplay has got to offer customization, customization = more personal attachment to the game = feeling more involved. Isnt that what rpgs are famous for? Immersion?

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Jawknee
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:48:04 PM

ek! missed my chance to edit. :P

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Qwarktast1c
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 11:30:05 AM

@ wakkaoaka

yeah X-2 was alright

KH games are like the only thing that are still top notch. I bet thats cause Nomura is in charge of it :)

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:36:14 PM
Reply

SS really needs to take off it's 360 tainted glasses & get back to it's roots.

If not, SE will wind up fast-tracking itself away from having any hard-core fans left soon.

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tes37
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:41:23 PM
Reply

If SE would give us at least one true turn-based rpg this generation, I would be happy. Losing Squaresoft feels almost like losing a friend. They may have lost too many key employees over the years that made the FF franchise great.

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enjoi
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:41:23 PM
Reply

They need to realize the Halo/CoD/GTA crowd doesnt want JRPGS no matter how "westernized" they are.

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coverton341
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 2:52:14 PM

That's what I've been saying for a while now. Not many that are die hard FPS gamers are into RPGs in general and an even fewer amount are into JRPGs. There are always a few exceptions to the rule but in general it is two different demographics.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:59:26 PM

Check out my post near the bottom in response to this.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 4/28/2010 4:00:27 PM

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Alienange
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:46:40 PM
Reply

What Sqare Enix fails to see is that even if they made Final Modern Fantasy Warfare 2, it wouldn't appeal to their perceived "western gamer" market.

Look at the characters they put in their games these days. The majority of the characters they make are queer or are seriously stereotyped and people role their eyes when they see the box sitting on the shelves of their favorite game selling establishment.

Look at MGS4. Everyone is like "yeah! I'm that crazy old bastitch." Look at inFamous. It starts off odd but then you really start to feel for Cole. Dare I mention Valkyria Chronicles?

Now look at Nier. SE attempt to make the main character more "western." What do they give us? A muscle bound Zorro. No SE, we liked Cloud. He was all kinds of bad ass and yet kept that anime pizazz your fans adore.

Unfortunately SE has completely lost it. They've completely lost sight of what they are and who they appeal to. Like they started going senile and took the wrong medication.

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oldmike
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:06:20 PM

i hope Nier bombs big time
and that opens there eyes
you dont get far Fing your fans

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BikerSaint
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 10:57:43 PM
Reply

As much as SE & anti-vision's been going down lately, it gives me reason to believe wada & kotex have been "secretly" sharing more than just a few hot-tub & steam-room moments after hours.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 4/27/2010 11:03:19 PM

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sonic1899
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:02:52 PM
Reply

Sadly, I think they've already gone too far over the 'edge' to hear us

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telly
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:08:21 PM
Reply

"Well, not you, the old you." Bwahahahahaha. Dutka from downtown! SWISH!!!!

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Milonakis
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:30:30 PM
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Since there cutting corners maybe they should just become circlesoft or octagonsoft.

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Highlander
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:31:20 PM
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I believe that the time has come to slay the sacred cow. Square Enix no longer deserves the free pass they've been getting, they no longer deserve the deference or automatic respect they've been receiving. Square Enix is now just another 3rd party game developer in the mold of Activision, but smaller. In other words, nothing special.

The video game market is a huge market with different genre and demographics, it's not one huge uniform mass of twitch gamers, the sooner developers learn to think beyond a single audience, the better.

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telly
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 9:04:30 AM

Glad somebody has the stones to say it.

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Nynja
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:12:52 PM

"The video game market is a huge market with different genre and demographics, it's not one huge uniform mass of twitch gamers, the sooner developers learn to think beyond a single audience, the better."

That just about sums it all up. Well done.

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CHAOS THEORY X
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:32:45 PM
Reply

Theres just gotta be a way to make them listen to us there just HAS to! they are ending a unique genre. Playing the old PS1 titles over and over again brings so much more joy than one hour of SquareEnix trash! Oh the Nostalgia!!

Last edited by CHAOS THEORY X on 4/27/2010 11:37:58 PM

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Highlander
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 11:50:54 PM

The only way a consumer can make a service company listen is to vote with their feet. Stop buying, and they will listen.

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 2:02:30 AM

@ Highlander

Vote with your feet indeed. Sony's devs have been treating us just fine. I don.t think SE knows who hell they are anymore. Buying out other dev, not sticking to what they WERE good at, not expessing the beauty and charm of their favored Japanese style and instead trying to make it "West". Just give me a bucket . I don't think, I knowi i'm going to be sick.

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DARKmark
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:26:01 AM
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dear SQUARE-SOFT,

your fans miss you

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 1:49:17 AM
Reply

I'm already at the point where I have been so betrayed by Square-Enix that i think its time to let them go. I even told myself, "Let M$ have them". I'm seriously disgusted by how they've treated us, lied to us and to be blunt, the trash they've put out this gen.

I too feel less and less enjoyment when i play FF 13. My co-worker just told me the same damn thing! I'm tired,just tired... Like Highlander says, THIS developer no longer diserves automatic praise or leisurely way.

Let them fail by trying to cater to western gamers when western game devs already have it covered and frankly already have the "western gamers" that would be interested in SE's new direction. But apparently SE feels that alienating the fanbase that F***ING MADE THEM is worth the risk .

Its hard to have faith or get excited for anything SE anymore. I worry for FF versus 13... had to rant. My first if i'm not mistaken.

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 2:04:30 AM
Reply

@ Anyone

Has the developer Mistwalker produced any games for the PS3?

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Arvis
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 8:21:07 AM

Nope.

-Arvis

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GuardianMode
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 4:02:12 PM

Mistwalker has a beef with Sony. Thats what I read awhile back. I dont think we will ever see a Mistwalker title on the PS3.

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King James
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 1:45:21 AM

Doesn't that Mistwalker boss owe Sony a lotta $$$ for that bombed FF movie?

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___________
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 2:38:47 AM
Reply

nier = best game $E has released in a very long time!
i had lot faith in square, but nier gave me a slight glimpse of confidence in them.
just please for the love of god stop switching your games over and go back to the olden days.
i really do not understand publishers these days, nothing is enough for them.
$E use to be one of the most loved publishers out there, they had a MASSIVE! fan base.
but no that was not enough, they had to change their games and try to reach out to other markets and give a massive middle finger to their fans.
dont publishers see by doing this their only going to hurt themselves?
publishers are WAY! to greedy these days.
the million dollar mansion and 2 Ferraris apparently is not enough.

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RebelJD
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:47:20 AM
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If only gaming was what it used to be, Indie. Now it's the big leagues and unfortunately, these companies have to play against the big boys now.

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kokoro
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:58:57 AM
Reply

I wonder what Japan thinks of sqaure enix now. Do they feel betrayed, or are they enthused by the prospect of being able to play twitch-orriented games from a Japanese developer?

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Vivi_Gamer
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 4:40:27 AM
Reply

I think you are all blowing it way out of proportion. Yes the games of Squaresoft were higher quality VII, VIII and IX are probaly my favourite games of all time. I admit FFXIII has a few problems, my main one was that there was not a strong antagonist. but i felt the game was a step in the right direction, which being more character driven. The gameplay, i personhally liked. the battle system was different and refreshing. i found myself having to constantly pay attention whilst playing the game, while on previous FF games, you usually find a pattern that works and continue with it.

I also thought they did a sensational job on Crisis Core, like XIII once i began it wouldnt let me go. I am looking forward to more information on Parasite Eve III and the other two FFXIII projects on the go.

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Arvis
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 8:20:29 AM

Yeah, I forget about Crisis Core, but that really was a great game.

Still wish it were on the PS3, though.

-Arvis

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coverton341
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:29:50 PM

I have to disagree about the paying attention part about playing FFXIII. I will say I have to watch my health bar but not really pay attention to anything. But, I personally didn't like the battle system at all. Older Final Fantasy's in my opinion offered more of a strategic gameplay than XIII. Yes, you had to find a "strategy" that worked and exploit it, where in XIII it felt more like just make sure you didn't get too low on health and switch to heal then switch back to fight. I honestly never used more than three paradigms in the entire game and that to me doesn't spell strategy at all.

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King James
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 1:50:56 AM

I respectfully disagree, Ultima. This FF is the least engaging FF I've ever played...EVER!

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Lotusflow3r
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 4:57:15 AM
Reply

I've mentioned many times that my attention has shifted to other developers due to their latest behaviour. I use to be SquareSoft mad. EVERY game they made was an instant mark on history.

SquareSoft were the mark of quality. Enix is far from it.

It says it all that when FF13 is out, i choose to play FFlV instead...

However, i will say this...

As i have said above, my attention has shifted to other developers such as Level 5, From Software, Atlus, Mystwalker, Tri-Ace etc....These people are delivering, every now and then, a traditional classic.
Witih games like WKC, Dark Cloud, RoF, Demons Souls, 3d Dot Game Heroes, Lost Odyssey, Persona coming out, should we care THAT much?

Mystwalker is Hironobu Sakaguchi's studio and judging from Lost Odyssey, he seems to have took the Soft from Square with him. He's working on his "new Final Fantasy" at the moment, The Last Story and who knows, it could be better!

So, basically....should we really care THAT much?

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FullmetalX10
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:30:17 AM

As long as it's not xbox exclusive like lost odyssey, else I think he's wasting his money, by not making a game for me.

Edit: Yeah, nvm, it's going to be for the wii -_-
I shall not support this man. Come on people, is it that hard to make a PS3 exclusive Final Fantasy

Last edited by FullmetalX10 on 4/28/2010 5:31:32 AM

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piratedrunk
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:35:23 PM

I'm definitely looking forward to hearing more about The Last Story. After Lost Odyssey I am pretty confident in their ability to put out a great classic RPG experience.

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coverton341
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:36:39 PM

Well Hironobu Sakaguchi had a long standing disdain for the previous CEO of Sony Entertainment if I recall correctly and that was mainly why Lost Odyssey didn't get put on the PS3 I believe. As for the new Wii exclusive, I am not sure why it is exclusive to that console but if it is good I might pick up a Wii just to have it, well that and Zelda and Mario games.

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GuardianMode
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 4:07:00 PM

I think the reason why its exclusive to the Wii is for the reason their previous 360 titles sold poorly. They want back in with the RPG crowd,(not the twitch gamer crowd on the 360).

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Lotusflow3r
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:40:30 PM

And let us not forget, Nintendo was Hironobu's 1st home. It's where he began. This makes me even more happy with his choice because it seems he is creating from the heart.

I don't care what console it's on, as long as it's created for all the right reasons.

Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 4/28/2010 5:42:56 PM

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main_event05
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:32:40 AM
Reply

I'm gonna hold off hating on SE until I see what they do with Hitman, after that the flood gates will open depending on how they do.

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 1:29:42 PM

Its just sad now that instead of knowing they're going to put out quality and being RIGHT about it we now have to wait and see because now there IS actually a chance SE can fail with a new game.

SE or I should say Squaresoft was a developer that just about everything if not all that they put out was golden. You name the game by SS and I probably remember it to this very day with found memories of the experience.

SE with the PS2 era was O.K. but this gen has just been depressing.

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main_event05
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:06:02 PM

agreed, sad times we are gaming in.

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GuardianMode
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 8:58:54 PM

Agreed! Hitman was a great game. The second was so-so though. As for SE,I am beginning to have my doubts. It all started 2 years ago when SE agreed to release games on the 360 first. It seems the NA PS3 fanbase was sacrificed for the X-box.

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FullmetalX10
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:33:56 AM
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I've had enough for now, I'm just going to wait and see how Versus XIII becomes, if it turns out anything like the older Final Fantasies, or maybe Kingdom Hearts it's a day one buy for me, as long as it stays exclusive.

You tire me S-E, you're not worth having half of SquareSoft's name in your title.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 4:18:52 PM

I believe you mean it's a D1P for you. lol

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JackC8
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 7:17:04 AM
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I think you're giving SE entirely too much credit - these are the same people who comment on the mediocre reviews FFXIII got by saying that us Westerners don't "understand" it.

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Arvis
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 8:16:43 AM

Hey, yeah... good point! They really are a bunch of clueless idiots!

-Arvis

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King James
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 2:02:23 AM

Great point. So unprofessional.

S-E Exec: The western gamers will love the dumbed down FF! FF13 will be the best FF game yet!
<The reviews come in>
Intern: The West don't like it, sir. I guess they aren't as slow as you thought.
S-E Exec: What? The scores are low?! Did you tell them that its a FF game?....You did?!...Those dumb Western gamers just don't understand it. Make the next FF even dumber. That'll work for the West, right?

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gumbi
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 8:33:35 AM
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The last turn based RPG I played was Dragon Quest VIII... and it was awesome!

FFXII was pretty good, but I STILL haven't finished it, wonder if I ever will. I rented FFXIII when it came out and got maybe 15 hours in... and I'm not really missing it so I won't be buying it till it's in the bargain bin.

I've actually started playing Legend of Dragoon again... AGAIN! on my PSP, because I so badly need to be reminded what a good turn based RPG is. I've been clamoring for a new LoD game for many many years now, but I actually don't want SE to do it now, they'll ruin it.

Go back to your roots SE, you won't regret it. Your fans really do miss you :(

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Laiquelleion
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 8:47:55 AM
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I really liked FF13 so I feel quite distant to all the negativity going around. Of course there are parts which can get better to the next iteration but nothing gamebreaking for me. My favorites in the series so far are FF7,FF8 and FF13.

The only thing I never again want to se in the series is the flawed MMO copy which is FF12. If I want à quest machine I might aswell have player WOW. The story is the mainstream thing for me and most of the Times it has been exceptional. But FF12 was the most boring I have tet to play.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 4:17:12 PM

You probably know this, but in case another reader who doesn't know much about ps2 or younger games, FF11 (FFXI) was the MMO.

As for me, I hated WOW, and I loved FFXI. Far more in depth, and the storylines are actually pretty good if you happened to be good enough to progress through them (and of course had a good Linkshell community). Was anyone else here a fan of the characters Lion or Shantoto?

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Laiquelleion
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 2:28:26 AM

I am well aware that FF11 is an MMO. I have even played it. But it's not that game which I loathe but FF12 which is open and MMO like to the degree that the story gets lost.

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Ergi
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 9:14:56 AM
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It hurts to read these things. I'm disappointed in Square-enix, and honestly Nier doesn't really seem all that great to me. The gameplay seems a bit tedious and clunky.
At least we have the old classics to remember them by, because i'm starting to see this as a completely different company. And squaresoft vanished into thin air.

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evilla_30
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 11:13:29 AM
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My boss was talking about Tobal and Tobal 2 and how it was different from Tekken and Mortal Kombat. That a game that got a 36/40 from Famitsu wouldn't release here in NA because of it's appeal, that's back in 97!!! So they probably haven't thought much of western gamers in a long time....

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rell
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 11:43:52 AM

@evilla_30 tobal no1 is awesome the fighting techniques on that is awesome in my opinion i like it better then tekken 2, tobal franchise didn't get promoted heavily in the us I didnt know there was a tobal no2 i need too go to play asia.com too buy it.

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main_event05
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:05:18 PM

Tobal #1 was released here. it had a kick ass quest mode that made tekken's seem like crap.

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evilla_30
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:46:31 PM

I was still too young to know about good games in 97. But my boss had bought Tobal 1 and then imported Tobal 2 since it was only released in Japan. Apparently 200 playable characters with an expanded quest mode meant buying Tobal 2 15 minutes ago on ebay. Might have to bring my Phat to work.

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rell
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 11:35:15 AM
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Maybe lvl 5 will become the old squaresoft. Wada is posion too Square I wish Sony would have purchase Square now that would have brought happy tears too my eyes.

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Nynja
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:08:57 PM
Reply

**MINOR SPOILER ALERT**

FFXIII has begun to grow on me. The battle system is not the turn-based RPG I have grown to love and long for. After dedicating over 120 hours to the game so far (no, I have yet to fight the final boss), I have found some very unique techniques and very impressive maneuvers that exposes how deep the battle system actually can be. Include the item and weapon upgrades and you have yourself a game that can keep you busy for many many hours. Sure the battles feel twitchy, but at least S-E included an option to slow down the battles making it feel more like a classic version of the ATB system from the past.

What I do like about FFXIII is the sense of accomplishment when you take down your first Behemoth on Gran Pulse or Juggernaut without a preemptive strike. This game really feels challenging compared to other installments in the series. I have -never- died so much in a Final Fantasy game. Ever.

On the surface FFXIII's leveling system feels shallow, with only 5 levels for each job role. It seems even S-E knew this and capped each stage of the Crystarium based on story progression to prevent gamers from maxing out their characters too early. If this were to happen, not many would have enough interest to continue on and get to the light waiting at the end of the tunnel, Gran Pulse. Even though it would be a short visit if one were to continue the story progression immediately upon arrival. What does save them from shallow character development is the weapon and item leveling that requires a large time investment. With 7 unique weapons for each character and near 200 levels for each, even the most dedicated RPG grinder will find satisfaction.

As for the plot... the story has never felt so weak compared to other FF games. It feels like a FF version of Star Wars. This is not to say that it is terrible, but far from the best.

Last edited by Nynja on 4/28/2010 12:10:51 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:29:30 PM

I agree with you. I spent 100 hours before getting disillusioned with my lack of apparent power even after maxing legendary weapons and the Crystarium.

The game is great, there's no doubt about that. I loved the ending and Fang is a surprisingly awesome character (you'll see more of that at the end). I'm glad I played it and I'm glad it's in my collection. It just isn't QUITE what I wanted.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:41:12 PM

Anyone else notice most of the enemies are the same enemy designs with slight color or design changes? this got very irritating to me. Seems there was more types of enemies in VII alone.

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Nynja
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:57:30 PM

@Ben;

Did you use the strategy guide? I don't know how I would survive without it. At least with it I know which weapon I want to focus on upgrading and what items not to upgrade (i.e.: Item Scavanger)

@Jawknee;

That might have been a limitation to disc space or memory. Though more variety would been nice.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 1:22:09 PM

My thought exactly. The monsters were annoyingly repetitive.

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 1:37:29 PM

@ Jawknee

I know this is getting reduntant but I blame Microsoft for the recycled designs.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 1:39:10 PM

The truth can never be repeated too much.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 2:58:01 PM

Nynja: Close, I used GameFaqs. But I know what you mean; you really need the info to know which weapon you want to turn into a legendary weapon, where to get certain things, etc.

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nogoat23
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:22:55 PM
Reply

As a measure of how many gamers out there want the old school style back, can't we look to the sales numbers of FF7, FF8, and FF9 on PSN?

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Jawknee
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 1:40:05 PM

IX isn't up yet but I'm sure it will sell just as well as VII and VIII. They have been in the top 10 since they were released.

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Scarecrow
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 12:47:26 PM
Reply

Still glade I didn't waste $60 on FFXIII

I think the loudest way we can show Square-Enix that we ALSO have a choice, is by not buying their games. Plain and simple

If all of you keep buying FFs BLINDLY they'll keep shifting it more into a "western" style.

Gotta talk money with money

Don't buy their games
---

Now, where's my psp/DS *inserts rpg*

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Jawknee
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 2:31:02 PM

I should have listened to you. lol i upset that i spent $60 on FFXIII. GoW3 was more worth it imo.

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King James
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 2:13:33 AM

@jawkneee
Was there are doubt?

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LightShow
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:34:37 PM
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i havent bought an enix game in a long time. i'll prob end up renting FFXIII VS but i'm not getting my hopes up for a purchase.

i'm just not feelin the love from RPG companies in general, most have this infatuation with grabbing me from my FPS with some sort of chimera-thing. obviously they arent getting that i went to shooters because they dont make them like they used to. you could look over my collection and see maybe 10 classic RPGs but you wont find a single one released in the last 5 years (save FFXII, least i think it was that recent)

so you RPG companies are welcome to keep floundering while i enjoy some MAG, BFBC2 and take little vacations to your past on the weekends. i'll let you know how it is.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 3:59:50 PM
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As is true to my character in trying to make the best of a bad situation, I tried using the westernized FF13 as an opportunity to introduce my FPS/twitching friends to the world of Final Fantasy.

I had a diabolical plan in my head to hook them on that, and slowly addict them to the classics. Guess what happened?

I failed. Know why? The westernized FF13 still has too much waiting and not enough twitching for them. And they admit it. They absolutely could not STAND the fact you couldn't get your characters to dodge an attack.

So what did SE do in the end? They didn't appeal to western gamers very well AND they pissed off the ones loyal to them. It's like a really bad marriage. It's like SE is in love with the west and wants to be accepted by the west so badly, that they forget about the family that raised and loved them since birth. But in the end, their lover (Micro$oft) wasn't willing to make compromises, and they couldn't accept their new wife (SE) because they still resembled a little piece of their family (JRPG fans) towards whom Microsoft harbors so much hatred. If Microsoft wasn't such an abusive husband, they would have accepted SE for who they were and allowed them to maintain her good relationship with her family.

Instead, SE is destined to remain far too embarrassed to ever return to their family of JRPG fans (although just like the prodigal son from the Bible, we'd be more than willing to accept them back despite their past actions and disrespect), they will continue to try to appeal to their abusive lover while constantly falling short, resort to drug usage (of which MS will likely be an enabler towards) and inevitably commit suicide, no doubt leaving behind some infant company with a different name in it's wake that Microsoft will continue to abuse after SE's passing.

Square Enix... please. Just return home. We will dress you in our finest robes and kill the fattened calf in your honor.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:05:13 PM

I knew that would happen. The biggest problem isn't necessarily that Square-Enix wants to cater to the Western crowd, it's that they really have no idea what the Western crowd WANTS.

And like I said, it implies that those who loved their old Squaresoft games have magically shifted their opinions and preferences over the years. I'm sure SOME have, but I refuse to believe there aren't millions who haven't...

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Underdog15
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:47:07 PM

That makes alot of sense to me. Do you or anyone else here happen to know how the Japanese market feels about this entry into the series? I'd be curious to know if they feel similarly to us.

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Nynja
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 8:27:19 AM

Haha, it's funny you bring that up. Not often, but at times I found myself moving the right analog in an attempt to dodge an attack. I'm such a noob. :}

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Phoelix
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:08:28 PM
Reply

It's a pretty big assumption that "few want turn-based or other traditional RPG themes to return." What evidence do you have to support this?

I wouldn't just write the problem off to "twitch gamers" today. Then you're just pressing all of us into boxes to define us. Furthermore, rather than showing anticipation for the future of games, this article laments the loss of its past. I don't quite agree with that, what with all the new and exciting stuff on the horizon.

Besides, how many times have you said this before?

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Underdog15
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:40:37 PM

I don't think you quite get it.

At no point have any of the authors on this site not shown anticipation for the future. There are certain elements of the past that DEFINE the genre fans want. Taking away a turn-based aspect from a genre of turn-based games is like taking the strategy element out of strategy games, and eliminating your favorite pro sports team from a sports game. Sure, it still is close enough to the original to be called a sports game, but if the best part is that you can make a guy with YOUR NAME play for your favorite sports team, why take away that aspect?

In fact, you are grossly misinformed to suggest no one is future focused. I think Ben's opinion especially, has a major complaint that the most recent FF installment is not as revolutionary as FF's of the past have been. Before, they always set the bar. Remember that intro at the start of FF6 with Terra, Biggs, and Wedge walking across the snow plains through the credits? Even then, for the SNES, I was like "Woh! That's cool!".

So, tell me this... Why can't an RPG dev develop a revolutionary game with new stories, battle systems, amazing graphics, in depth side-quests and exploration, and is somehow throughout all this turn-based? I would argue, that while FF13 was a great game, it was NOT revolutionary, the story was only OK, did NOT have in depth exploration or many side-quests (missions are pretty much it), and it's battle system lacked customization (would have been better to have gambits or something again so I could decide what the AI characters used FIRST. I'm sick of waiting for my saboteurs casting deshell, deprotect, curse, and daze before getting to the poison spell I WANT them to cast first).

I just feel it's shortsighted to say games must give up PRIMARY themes in order to be future focused. Sure, scrap the little things and improve upon errors, but when it comes to something as FUNDAMENTAL as turn-based battles or exploration, I speak for many of us here by saying it's actually a step backwards and not a progression.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 5:45:08 PM

Also, in terms of evidence to support that people want traditional aspects to return, just read this thread and other threads on the site. There are many of us that haven't been satisfied with RPG's in years. I, for one, fit into that very category Ben describes. I know a couple of my FF fan friends that feel the same way. If I ask them what they think, it almost always starts out with something like, "I dunno... like... I LIKED it... but... yeah... I dunno... I wanted something more... like... not that it isn't good; it's great... but... yeah... you know what I mean?"

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Phoelix
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 9:49:52 AM

I can't speak for the writers here; what I was saying about anticipation for the future is that this article specifically (and just this article) doesn't show it.

Nowhere did I say or imply that nobody is future focused.

So you know, I have played Tactics, VII, VIII, IX, X, X-2, and XII, so I'm not completely ignorant of this topic. It is a shame that Squeenix lost whatever it was that gave us FF VII. However, I think we've all agreed on this and should thus move on and stop returning to dwell on it. After all, it's free publicity for Squeenix, which they do not deserve (and which they use FFVII to shamelessly milk).

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AirplanePeanuts
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 6:27:32 PM
Reply

I'm the odd duck here because the Square Enix I miss is the one from the SNES era. My love for the Playstation platform mostly has its roots in franchises that began on PS1 or PS2, whereas Final Fantasy VII was where Square and I started parting ways. I know I've said it before on this site but I'm not so arrogant as to expect folks to remember li'l ol noob me, but it's kind of fascinating seeing Playstation era Square fans become disenfranchised with the company the way I did back in 97.

That's not to say I don't still enjoy the occasional Square game, but now they're more like just another game company, with all the good and bad that entails. Like, I dunno, an Ubisoft or something.

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AirplanePeanuts
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 6:39:00 PM
Reply

Oh yes, and for anyone really itching for a PSone era style Square game, if you have an iPod/iPhone/iPad/iWhatever check out Chaos Rings (published by Square Enix). Not quite the scope of a Final Fantasy, but it is old fashioned turn based RPG through and through.

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King James
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 7:00:05 PM
Reply

I miss SquareSoft. Heck I'll even settle for the latter company, Square.

FF13 didn't start to feel like an FF game until about 35-40hrs into it. What a disappointment!

But Ben, didn't Squaresoft do this exact same thing in the Super Nintendo days? I think the game was called FF RPG or something? No..It was "Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest"! It was a dumbed down FF. Square thought the West was too stupid and wanted to build a RPG "so easy, an American can do" game.

And IGN quotes, "The result wasn't just a game of minimal grinding and low shop prices, it was an almost wholly linear experience, where movement was restricted to dotted lines connecting areas, and the computer controlled all but one member of your party."

Wow. That sounds like a game that Square-Enix just put out, huh? Well that game sold modestly, just like FF13 (IMO, FF13 should've sold twice as much in the 1st month). And it seems like history is repeating itself. After FF: Mystic Quest, Square released FF5 in Japan only...leaving American's in the cold. Bad moves on Square's part.

BUT, all was forgiven after FF6 was released to the West. So, I'm just hoping that Versus and FF14 will redeem Square-Enix, like FF6 redeemed SquareSoft.

*fingers-crossed*

Last edited by King James on 4/28/2010 7:00:51 PM

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DemonNeno
Wednesday, April 28, 2010 @ 7:21:00 PM
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I don't know what to say. Since the first FF (NES) I've played, it had turned my RPG world into one largely influential estate of gaming. I played games that remotely reminded me of the series (Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Breath of Fire, Chrono Trigger, Lufia) and realized how much leverage SquareSoft had on the gaming industry and most importantly on the RPG players.

It was a simple formula (back on FF series here) that used something most non-gamers didn't consider; these games required knowledge, patience and, most importantly, incredible story lines. They only did themselves a favor by keeping to this formula. Turn based fighting that really needed to be used for every strike you can get. There wasn't all this slash and bash crap. If you weren't mentally capable of defeating your enemy, brawn brought your gaming to a halt!

The story lines may still be phenomenal, but that's not the only reason we play games. We like a challenge, but we like it done in a recipe that makes that challenge very different from the rest. It's how we prepared ourselves for battle. How we roamed to our quests, learning more and more from individuals we met on a map that didn't restrict our imagination. It was about discovering weapons a quick walk-by will miss. All the glory in defeating enemies of that new land you find that'll destroy you if you slip in your own technique.

It was a very thrilling universe where no one told me how to play it. There weren't any rules to how well or how little I prepare for battle. You could make or break deals depending on how you approach someone. You can open your path to more treasures by saying the right thing. You can be who you want to be solely based on who you are.

That's gone. There isn't any love for that gaming anymore from these massive companies that overshadow what the gamers want. They care about numbers and will not stop until they drive that point home. Unfortunately S-E, the idiots HAD those numbers. They HAD those fans. All they needed to do was let their masterminds spin the web of storytelling and introduce yet another amazing piece of gaming history that'll leave every fan and every interested gamer, world-wide, in complete awe of it. An experience that'll cling onto you forever. That experience many of us share for FFVII and lust for it to once again bring our living rooms to life with such a compelling story, an immense world to do with as we choose and a TURN-BASED battle system that'll once again put the strategy in the hands of the true beholder; the gamers.

I refuse to believe that day is gone, but perhaps it won't be one seen at the hands of S-E. The gamers are a ever-growing population. It's only a matter of time before someone amongst you and I who knows how an amazing RPG game play and feel will give that to us. In return, my money and devotion they shall receive.

Last edited by DemonNeno on 4/28/2010 7:23:10 PM

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stemon
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 1:48:14 AM
Reply

Great article and it hits home ... lets hope parasite eve 3,ffversus and ff14 impress if not I will stubb out my candle of hope for SE.

Level 5 are my fav JRPG devs now I am gonna come out and say it I do prefer Turn Based RPG's, I am currently playing WKC and ... Shadow Hearts: FROM THE NEW WORLD(ps2) oh in from the new world I am about 6hours in an have around 10 differant things I can do with with my time FF13 at 7 hours was the same as when I booted the dam game. But ROGUE GALAXY is possibly my fav rpg and the dark cloud games are awesome to, Level 5 did real time combat great and are doing Turn based combat just as good, btw I just got my shield for my White Knight awesome cut scene :)

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Lotusflow3r
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 9:12:18 AM

Thumbs up for you!

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Nynja
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 11:05:23 AM

Not that it would be entirely bad, but I fear FFXIV will carry a similar leveling system as FFXIII. I recall reading somewhere that gamers won't be leveling their characters, but instead leveling their weapons or weapon skills.

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Solaris Knight
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 8:34:01 PM
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What is happening with Square Enix is indicative of what is happening to the videogame market in Japan.  The market there is shrinking for console games because handhelds and cell phone games are king since most people have to commute via trains, buses, etc.  Japanese companies are trying to develop games for a completely different culture and are having a difficult time.  A lot of the humor and subjects that are referred to in their games western audiences wouldn't "get".   Not out of stupidity but of ignorance of Japanese culture.  Also many Japanese developed games are more cerebral than western games and I know a lot of people do not want to have to make a large investment of time to one particular game to get their monies worth.  Hence the popularity of online shooters.  One can play for and hour, with friends, not get emotionally invested and come back to it a week later and not have to worry about stories and grueling boss battles. As you age, you start realizing that spending hundreds of hours with one game is not only a huge commitment but also sometimes not feasible with a job, kids, a wife/husband et cetera.  

I believe the place for RPG's is the DS.  There's alot of variety; most are turn based and most are made by Japanese developers: Atlus, R&D 1; Nude Maker, Platinum Games; Nintendo, Intelligence Systems et cetera.  If you are truly a RPG aficionado then your best bet is to quit complaining about them not being on consoles (which I had to) and go to where they are being developed for (portable systems).  Here's some RPG love: Infinite Space; Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey: Etrian Odyssey I & II; Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner; The World Ends with You; Knights in the Nightmare; Luminous Arc I and II; The Dark Spire.  I could name more but you get the point.  Trying to find good rpg's on console systems is like trying to find intellectually stimulating programming on television: you can but it's really hard to find because it is produced for the masses.  

On a side note I really like Final Fantasy XIII.  The first 30 hours were filler but once you set foot on Gran Pulse it really is a unique, living breathing world.  To compare XIII to a game like Final Fantasy Mystic Quest is gross exaggeration.  Mystic Quest was for children, not for adult consumtion.  It was an intuitive, barebones RPG.  Was it bad?  No.  Could it be they were introducing a new genre to people under 10 years of age so they could enjoy other similar RPG's? Maybe.  But Final Fantasy XIII is not that.  Many people that I have showed Final Fantasy XIII have no idea what is going on.  There is an enormous amount of multitasking and you must be paying attention at ALL times and have a proper paradigm set up for when a different situation arises.  The battle system doesn't seem pedantic to me, maybe a little convoluted but it definitely has depth.  I think XIII is probably the best console RPG I have played since Persona 3 and to me that is quite a compliment.  

Finally, I know Final Fantasy VII was great when I played it back in 1997.  Now it just seems like a relic that should be forgotten.  If someone could explain why the story (which has numerous grammatical and typographical errors) is better than XIII's, I would like to read it.  Not trying to flame but I do not know if all this Final Fantasy VII love is hive mind mentality or genuine.

Last edited by Solaris Knight on 4/29/2010 8:51:19 PM

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Underdog15
Friday, April 30, 2010 @ 9:12:20 AM

***FF7 spoilers ahead***

I don't mind fielding the FFVII question, although I won't spend much time on it since this thread is more or less dead now.

First of all, the character development in FFVII is a little more heartily worked out. In FFXIII, everyone has a tiny little back story, but very little explanation as to why a particular character is the way they are. None of them are that interesting, although as I mentioned before and read others say, Fang could have a very interesting back story. Wish I knew more of it.

It is true the editing in the English version of FFVII is a little to be desired. I commented once that the characters don't think too deeply, but I believe this to be due to translation not being strong. Remember how FFVI spelled a very useful item "Fenix Down"?

The back stories behind the characters, however, are fantastic. Of course, for some, it's taken additional plugs into the story, like Dirge of Cerberus or Crisis Core, to fully develop them. Take Vincent, for example. An honest, hard-working Turk devoted to protecting the woman he loves is unable to protect her from making perhaps the greatest mistake. Not only was his body transformed, but his psyche takes a toll due to the blame he feels for not being able to stop the most fate-of-the-world altering event from happening to the woman he loves: the birth and creation of Sephiroth. Vincent doesn't even begin to forgive himself until a dialogue with Cloud in Advent Children near the Forgotten Capital.

I think Crisis Core did wonders for developing the characters of the various Turks, Aerith (Aeris depending on your version), Cloud, and especially Zack and his relationship with Sephiroth. Tie that in with Tifa's desire just to be with Cloud and everything she went through, Barret's back-story explaining why he's involved from the loss of his wife, family, and friends, the back-stories to people like Professor Gast, Hojo, Ifalna, and you realize quickly that there are a million different events that needed to happen to get to the point the story takes.

Red XIII and Yuffie even have good back stories. Anything that is touching surrounding family, of course, usually hits home for me though.

So, FFXIII had small backstories, but it is extremely minimal in explaining how everyone came together. FFVII has a 5-10 year history (what is probably 25+ for Vincent) to get to a certain point. There is far more complexity in the story. FAR more. Sure, the dialogue was poor (although wonderful, as far as I'm concerned, in Crisis Core), but it's kind of like Star Wars. Amazing story and complex history, but "meh"-ish dialogue. I personally like FFVII's story. It just feels like it's bigger. It definitely takes far more time to understand and discover the many different angles than FFXIII takes.

***FFXIII SPOILER ALERT IN THIS PARAGRAPH!***

I love how seemingly simple and fun characters turn out to be complex individuals. FFXIII kinda does that with Vanille, and I thought, "Oh good, she's going to get interesting!". But as it turns out, she was just embarrassed about lying. I was so excited to find out the deep, dark secrets about Lightnings name, but it came out pretty simply and made no impact. I ended up saying to myself, "oh... that's all?". And what's complex about Snow wanting to rescue his fiancee? Didn't Super Mario Bros. on NES cover that one? Hope was just an annoying scaredy-cat who blamed Snow for his mom's death, which is stupid, he obviously watched him try to save her. Sazh is just an old, depressed guy focused on his son. Fang was actually interesting, but they didn't explain her past prior to her original focus. Except that she lived in a tight knit community. I mean, seriously... Everyone has ONE motivator in life, and only extremely recent events motivate them into action. That first chapter fal-Cie fight could have been moving had I been invested in the characters by that point.

***END FFXIII SPOILERS***

I just feel far more depth in 7 than 13. And in all honesty, it simply is NOT revolutionary by any means. There was obviously more work put into the story of FFVII. We'll have to see how the rest of the FFXIII trilogy fills in the blanks.

P.s. I have FFVII and FFVIII on my PSP, and they're great as portable/small amount of time games.

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Underdog15
Friday, April 30, 2010 @ 9:19:40 AM

lol... turns out I did spend some time on it...

Also, while I do feel grammatical errors and typos take away from what lines COULD have said and DO imply, I think if you're good at seeing characters for who they are, it's easy to realize how in depth it is. (Keep in mind, many grammatical errors are merely that particular character's way of speaking.)

Oh ya... I've never been able to understand what the heck Barret is talking about when he says something about the $&@*$%&* Pizza whatever when on the train in Midgar... ?

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Underdog15
Friday, April 30, 2010 @ 9:25:43 AM

Also, sorry for how hastily I wrote that long blurb. I didn't edit it at all. lol

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Solaris Knight
Thursday, April 29, 2010 @ 9:05:59 PM
Reply

Oh. And I do not know why there are textual anamolies in my postings. Maybe because I am typing on a smartsphone?

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