Square-Enix: Game Consoles Hitting Their "Upper Limits"

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:00:50 AM
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If SE had spent half the time working on the PS3 as they've evidently spent playing with the 360, I would be more inclined to list. However since their output on the PS3 has been limited to 1 AAA title so far this generation, I find his claims that the console hardware has reached it's upper limits don't apply to the PS3. Perhaps if they'd spent more time working with the technology instead of making backroom deals I would listen, but since they (SE) are more apt to abandon their fans and whine, I'm simply going to ignore him.

38 up, 2 down

Arvis
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:06:23 AM

*slow clap*

-Arvis

17 up, 0 down

ro kurorai
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:29:40 AM

Well, wada-kun can't openly say he thinks 360 has hit its limit, so he says 'consoles' instead ^^.

I agree with you on that one Highlander. SE have obviously way more experience on 360 so I reckon they can evaluate its hardware capabilities.
But unless SE deliver something on par with Uncharted2, KZ2/3, GOW3 or Heavy Rain visually Wada can keep his snide remarks to himself for all I care.

Last edited by ro kurorai on 6/25/2010 11:29:55 AM

4 up, 0 down

Victor321
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:37:25 PM

Ew Wada-Kun? Hearing that gives me shivers :S

7 up, 0 down

bridgera
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 7:58:38 PM

There are plenty of reasons to hate on SE, but I'm actually inclined to agree with him.

What did a video game cost to make in the 1980's ?

$100,000 ? $500,000?

Did anything cost over 1 million?

What budges do some of these big titles have? It was $44 million for GoW III.

Clearly we aren't going to see soaring budgets and soaring quality on video games.

Yes things will continue to improve, but I just don't see the market as being able to support a $500 million dollar video game.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 10:56:08 PM

You're not comparing apples with apples. The market for games when they cost 1000's to make was far different from now. Not to mention that the size of the team was far different to now. The industry measures it's sales in the billions now, not the millions.

3 up, 0 down

bridgera
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 1:03:59 AM

I'm talking about market growth and imrovement in quality.

The market was very different, that's obvious. For growth, how's it going to continue ?

That type of market growth isn't going to continue.

I don't see a game being so awesome and selling so many copies that it gets enough sales to account for something like a .5 billion dollar budget.

The only real limitations on these games isn't going to be the technology, it's going to be the budget.

Last edited by bridgera on 6/26/2010 1:06:38 AM

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 11:38:17 AM

I never expected any game to cost 100 million to make, nor did I ever expect a single game's sales to be sufficient to make back such cost and still turn a profit. As of this year, I was wrong. So, as time passes, and inflation happens costs will rise, prices will rise and all the numbers will inflate. If we can spend $100 million developing a game launched this year - and that game turns a profit, what's to stop a company within 5 years spending $150 million - or more?

3 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 4:56:13 PM

Shockingly, The Highlander seems to have missed the point of the article. I was expecting a cogent analysis of the future of hardware development and why Wada is wrong about the potential of multi-thread processors, etc.

High is right about S-E knowing nothing about the potential of the PS3, though.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/26/2010 4:59:12 PM

1 up, 0 down

DemonNeno
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 5:47:49 PM

I dont think he meant the actual performance of the console(s), I believe he was implying the sophisication of them. Either way, he's a retard. There's SO much more the PS can become in the next generation, just as there's so much more our PS3 has become in the past two years!

To be fair, I must include the next gen Xbox.. Imagine what a leap forward THAT would be w/o a RROD!! And unlike the "slim" that just removes the lights, I'm implying an HARDWARE upgrade! :)

Wada needs ta pass that bong down!

0 up, 0 down

bridgera
Sunday, June 27, 2010 @ 1:14:49 AM

There are limits to how big the budget for these games is going to get, they have nothing to do with hardware. (Let's ignor inflation, the actual dollar amounts REALLY aren't the point).

Ultimately it's how long you can pay programmers to work on a game, and still turn a profit. You don't have an unlimited untapped market to keep appealing to.

You aren't going to keep seeing factors of 100 increase in budget from the 1980s to the 2010 (again, ignoring inflation). That increase was due to increasing to more and more consumers...

... at some point, you are going to see a limit, because there are a limited number of consumers....

...that's going to limit your budget...

... that's going to limit how much development goes into a game.

At some point it stops being about better and better hardware and it starts being about the budget.

That is what the SE dude was getting at, and yes, I agree with him.

Last edited by bridgera on 6/27/2010 1:16:53 AM

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Monday, June 28, 2010 @ 3:27:09 PM

@bridgera, that's not what I got from Wada's statement at all. I mean, you're right, but then that exact same argument is applicable to other software development, movie making and other media production.

But, let's turn this around for a minute. If a game manages to sell 10 million copies at a sticker price of $60, that is $600 million in revenue. Granted only about 40-50% of that get's back to the publisher/developer, but that's still $240-300 million. Like the movie industry not all games will cost $100 million to make, nor should they. Personally I think that if a game costs $100 million to make, then they ought to fire their executive producers and project managers for gross incompetence. But that's just me.

What I am getting at is that games are more and more like movies in terms of their production and their earning potential. The earning potential of a game is based on the audience size, and that audience continues to grow. so the earning potential of a 'blockbuster' game continues to grow.

So I don't agree that we are reaching the limits yet either in hardware or in terms of the cost of making a 'big' game, or in terms of the potential revenue from a big game.

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Ogibillm
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:02:26 AM
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sounds like the words of a lazy man

granted, as realism increases so does the time and effort required to produce a game, but that doesn't mean there won't be people and companies up to the challenge.

Last edited by Ogibillm on 6/25/2010 11:02:57 AM

6 up, 0 down

cLoudou
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:05:38 AM
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Whatever you say, SE.

Now hurry up and finish Versus XIII.

Last edited by cLoudou on 6/25/2010 11:07:27 AM

3 up, 0 down

Karosso
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:07:25 AM
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Is this guys really that stupid to make a statement like this?
We will only have reach the limit when a game console can replicate something like Avatar in real time, something the PS3 can not do.
I meant we are getting closer with each generation but this is not it yet. the PS4 might just reach the photo realistic realm and that will be that for graphics but, until we see that, this round of hardware is not the final frontier.

8 up, 1 down

556pineapple
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:09:12 AM
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Does he mean consoles are losing their identity because they are gravitating more and more towards computers? Because that makes sense to me. The current generation of consoles (Wii excluded) basically are computers already, just focused on gaming instead of multi-tasking. Even until recently, by putting Linux on a PS3, you could turn it into a full-fledged computer.

5 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:51:00 AM

Consoles have always been computers. They have simply lacked mass storage options in the past.

2 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:11:21 AM
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I think this is ridiculous. Didn't we just have the conversation about how far can it go? We haven't even maxed out what home consoles can do.

Again...3D, virtual reality, true photorealistic graphics. The question of how far has only just begun.

It scares me when a CEO of a gaming company thinks that we are maxed out...it shows that his imagination is non-existant and that he has stopped dreaming of what is possible and then striving to achieve it.

SE has taken so many wrong turns in the past few years...this just adds to the downward spiral.

15 up, 0 down

Qwarktast1c
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:17:07 AM
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once again, Wada is spouting bullsh*t

technology is always advancing, computers are constantly becoming faster and smaller. how is it that they've come close to reaching the limit?

4 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:19:48 AM
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Why don't you leave the console making to the console makers jackass.

This douche doesn't know what he's talking about. Like Highlander said, they have only made one AAA game for the PS3 this gen and even that wasn't very good. I'm convinced the Soft part of Square is completely dead.

How did this clown become CEO of Square?

12 up, 0 down

Qwarktast1c
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:39:22 AM

i have no idea

i want squaresoft back T_T

1 up, 0 down

johnld
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 2:30:14 PM

i gotta disagree a little bit jawk. they made one AAA game for the ps3 so far and it wasnt very good as a final fantasy game. it was a pretty good game if it didnt carry the final fantasy flag. i got to give credit where its due. final fantasy wise, i wouldve said that square is slipping on the franchise, but they already fell off a long time ago.

0 up, 0 down

spiderboi
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:21:35 AM
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Maybe its Wada who already met his limits.

6 up, 0 down

DeathOfChaos
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:38:00 PM

Very true, lol

1 up, 0 down

main_event05
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:21:54 AM
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If there is one thing you can say about Sony it is that they are technological innovators, and not only with their gaming consoles but all across the board. Sure the PS3 may hit it's "Upper Limit" soon, but I'm sure that Sony isn't just sitting back twittling their thumbs, can't say to much about Microsoft as they are software developers and their main focus seems to be to destroy gaming anyway.

But in conclusion, its a very bold statement to say that, if i understand correctly, that this is as far as gaming consoles, current and future, will go.

4 up, 0 down

main_event05
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:32:54 AM

maybe, but then i'll have to buy a new couch cause my car would be a Ford P.O.S.

2 up, 1 down

ro kurorai
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:38:26 AM
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I'd like to hear Nomura's opinion on that after he's finished FFvXIII ^^

1 up, 0 down

DeathOfChaos
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:35:48 PM

Yes, his opinion would matter much more than Wada's.

Last edited by DeathOfChaos on 6/25/2010 1:36:28 PM

0 up, 0 down

Oliver
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:40:20 AM
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Sadly, I believe he is correct, but it's probably not going to happen in the too near future. Cloud computing and in-memory systems are really starting to gain momentum in the business world, and it's just a matter of time before that spills over into gaming. There are plenty of benefits to this model for the developer and the publisher - primarily, the ability to get all the revenue from game purchases.

I actually think Wada's comment ties into the universal console article Ben posted. But rather than using one "console", we'll all just be playing games in the cloud.

Last edited by Oliver on 6/25/2010 11:41:01 AM

2 up, 2 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:49:16 AM

Oliver.

To play games in the cloud, there has to be completely universal high speed broadband access available at little to no cost to consumers. Without that, too many potential consumers are disenfranchised and a cloud based system will not work.

I also have to point out that the businesses playing with cloud based solutions are the ones large enough to have the money to play with such expensive and infrastructure intensive technology.

Cloud computing is fine for low bandwidth tasks, but media streaming and game streaming or live online gaming are bandwidth intensive tasks. The present infrastructure simply doesn't support it.

5 up, 1 down

Oliver
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:57:14 AM

@Highlander - I agree that the current infrastructure and install base for high-speed connections aren't there yet, but it is coming. I read an estimate last week that claimed 80% of the US will have broadband access by 2013. I'm sure that's a big enough install base for most game developers to switch platforms. Plus, there are already services out there trying this (OnLive?).

And just to be clear - I love having my console in my living room. I love going to the store getting a game I've been waiting for. I just think that gaming as I've always known it won't be around forever.

2 up, 1 down

main_event05
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:11:35 PM

Cloud Tech on a large scale is a terrible idea. Look what happened when T-mobile's cloud was messed up.

pure chaos.

pass

1 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:21:50 PM

I like the points both of you make, actually.

However, I like to analyze what Wada said (we should turn WADA into a silly acronym for something) in terms of the consoles abilities as opposed to any of it's networking. At least that's how I interpreted it.

For example, nothing about FFXIII has any kind of online features, but as Sweedie said earlier, I find it hard to believe they can't go further still.

I really do believe Wada was not commenting on PS3 specifically. I think he's fully aware of the potential, however, if he's honest, they probably are starting to max out the 360. Your system can only be as good as it's weakest part, afterall.

I mean, if he was to come out and say that SOME systems are getting maxed soon, then he would have no credibility to continue to release high quality games, like the FF's, on multiple platforms.

So for me, his comments are meaningless. Any other implication would mean he'd have no grounds for continual multi-platform releases, and he'd soon have to limit himself to one system. And Wada wouldn't make as much dinero that way.

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:31:26 PM

Oliver, having broadband access isn't enough. I have DSL and at barely more than 2Mbits/second it's not enough for reliable streaming of video. The estimates of what % will have broadband by year 20XX never tell you what quality of broadband they will have, nor what the cost will be.

Bandwidth and availability are the Achilles heel of cloud computing and streaming games. Note, I'm not talking about the delivery of games via download, although 10GB or larger downloads are very long, I'm referring to game streaming such as that proposed by OnLive. With the infrastructure we have now and will have for the foreseeable future, the kinds of gaming we have on the PS3 are not viable via a streaming solution.

Last edited by Highlander on 6/25/2010 12:31:43 PM

1 up, 1 down

fluffer nutter
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 3:13:09 PM

2Mbps? Ouch! I feel for ya, man. Seriously.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 3:18:35 PM

@Fluffer,

I know! It's supposedly 3MBits but I seldom get that bandwidth. I have to switch to cable when I can get myself organized enough to do it.

0 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 5:02:49 PM

What
A
Dumb / Demented / Deluded
A**hole?

Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/26/2010 5:03:53 PM

0 up, 1 down

marcusfrommo
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:15:29 PM
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to the highlander or for anyone else, i was wondering WHY DID'T SONY ADD A MUCH LARGER RAM TO IT'S PS3? i've talked to soy rep at the sony store a few years back, and he said (i think) "that if you can download the information to the hard drive, you don't need all that ram". but that same logic can be said about the first tv's to come out with the component input. they said that "with the exception of a high def. dvr and or blue ray, what do you need multiple component inputs for?" this was before hdmi tv's and inputs debuted. i mean doesn't the cheapest 400 to 600 dollor computer had a 1 to 4 gig ram to begin with? i get it that it's the ps3 and it had a really fancy graphics processor or some sort. but if it had a 2 gig ram? would that mean quicker downloads, an actual internet (instead of a web browser), able to upgrade the latest adobe flash, actually be able to stream videos the same way a computer does, and or better quality in graphics?

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:34:30 PM

They didn't add more RAM because they already had 16 times the amount they had in the PS2, they had a local HDD and besides, the bloody thing already cost upwards of $800-$1000 to make (depending on configuration), adding more XDR RAM to the system would have added anything up to another $100 to the cost. XDR memory is very fast memory, but also expensive. The PS3 was already so expensive to make, Sony was never going to throw more hardware into the thing, it was just too much cost.

Besides 256MB of system memory and 256MB of graphics memory was - at the time - not as bad a configuration as it appears now, nearly 5 years after the design was finalized.

1 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 5:08:48 PM

The point about cost is valid, but I thought it was too little RAM when they first announced the specs (despite not needing to run bloated code like Windows PCs) and I still think it's too little.

But something's always the bottleneck.

p.s. Imagine how gimped the 360 would be if they had gone with only 256 MB of RAM.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/26/2010 5:09:55 PM

0 up, 0 down

coverton341
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:21:42 PM
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For anyone to think that any technological device is near a peak is short-sighted and has not been paying any attention to technological developments in history.

Technology advances, what does he mean that we can't keep upping the CPU power of a console? If they make a better CPU then why can't they slap it in a console. Does he honestly believe that technology itself is about to peak? Have we reached singularity and I missed it? Where are my biotechnological augmentations?

I'm sorry I'm just not buying into his theory. Everyday we make strides in technology, when was the last time you bought a piece of hardware and then became pissed two weeks later when there was a bigger and better piece of the exact same hardware?

The field keeps moving forward, the ability to put a CPU in a console isn't going to up and disappear. He's deluded.

3 up, 0 down

main_event05
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:25:43 PM

About a month or two ago when I got my 3G S.

0 up, 0 down

coverton341
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:42:03 PM

Great example. Think about the size and the power of the CPU in a smartphone. Look at the new Droid X or iPhone 4G coming out.

Again I think this guy is a bit deluded if he thinks we are peaking.

2 up, 0 down

Milonakis
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:26:03 PM
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They should work on hd towns for the ffvii remake instead of a way to sell games. Make a good game and it will sell itself.

0 up, 0 down

marcusfrommo
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:33:10 PM
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here's another question. during the making of xbox 360 and the ps3? does the competition already know or have a general idea of what their next gen consoles specs are? i kinda find it hard to believethat one system is slightly better than another. sony and microsoft has a ton of money to invest into the latest console. i mean, my only issue with microsoft is that they charge to much for there hard drives, and they decided to put there games on cd roms,which stores a maximum of 8 gigs or less i think. i mean the 50 dollor a year for live isn't too bad, considering (with the exception of the wii) the offer a ton of games on the arcade, lots of themes and or gamer pictures. they don't mind trying to steal ps3's exclusives and or have you thinking the latest add-ons may or may not crossover to the ps3 (like gta). i wonder who microsoft thinks has the strongest console? what say you?

0 up, 2 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:39:53 PM

They all had an idea of what eachother was doing. It was well known that Sony was working with IBM and Toshiba on the Cell processor and XDR memory. RSX ws known about a year or so before launch and it was well known that Sony would use BluRay as soon as it was ready to go.

Microsoft's console was always going to have XBL capability. It was widely known that the CPU was coming from IBM which meant it would be a PowerPC based design, and the GPU was coming from ATI. A lot of people thought it would use HD-DVD which was looking like it would be a viable alternative to BluRay, but MS decided to stick with DVD, presumably for cost reasons. As Shams showed last week MS made a last minute decision to add memory bringing the total to 512MB in the 360, and as I remember it, everyone expected the 360 to havd an HDD, but they shipped a SKU without an HDD and told game developers about 6 months before launch that they could not rely on a local HDD.

So I guess the answer is that some things are known some are not. It's always possible that internally the companies know even more, who knows what information they manage to gather without telling anyone...

3 up, 0 down

JackC8
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:39:43 PM
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That's just dumb, and shows a complete lack of ability to think creatively. It reminds me of Charles Duell who, back in 1899, said the U.S. Patent Office should be closed because everything that could be invented already had been invented.

The computer on the Apollo capsule had 36KB ROM and 2KB RAM - now I'm installing a .5 terabyte drive in my video game console. And this doofus can't figure out anything to use it for. Oh well, I'm sure they can copy what other, far more creative developers do in the future.

3 up, 0 down

GuernicaReborn
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:43:09 PM
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Um, he's not talking specifically about one console or another, he's talking about the technological advances of each Generation.

I can see what he means, even graphical upgrades at this point will be minimal, graphics for games are already incredible. The next logical step for gaming consoles expanding what they can currently do. I guess a good example from this gen is Netflix on all consoles. Next gen, consoles could become comparable to Ipods or Iphones in that there may be hundreds of thousands of different applications we can use in our everyday lives.

0 up, 0 down

coverton341
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 12:56:07 PM

If you read his statement he isn't specifically talking about this generation though and is making a blanket statement that there isn't much more they can put in a console CPU wise, and this is just a ridiculous assumption.

The next gen consoles won't be out for at least another 2 or 3 years, and do you realise the amount of change CPUs go through in that amount of time? It is short-sighted and uninspired to think that that kind of technology is going to stagnate

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GuernicaReborn
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:24:36 PM

It's obviously not gonna stagnate, but the past few gens have seen graphics improve, idk, 1000x and storage space on discs go from 2.4MB on PS1 to 50GB on PS3. Graphics and storage can improve next gen, but how much farther can they possibly go? Will we see improvements in graphics in the next decade like we've seen in the previous decade? It's hard to tell.

As for each consoles networking capabilities, it is clear that big improvements can be made there. This is the first generation of game consoles where online play is arguably bigger than single player(I said arguably, I don't neccessarily agree with it).

This is from the article ben linked to:
"The innovation that we hear about during this E3 are only minimal additions to the existing technologies," said Wada, presumably talking about Kinect and PlayStation Move. "What is not visible today is the quiet change that's taking place at the network level." --I agree with that.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 12:22:19 AM

Just for the record. PS1 used CDs which gave it around 700MB to play with. PS2 used DVDs giving it 8-9GB and the PS3 uses Bluray which gives it 50GB (possibly more if it can read quad layer or the newer higher density BluRay discs).

1 up, 0 down

Wissam
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:01:28 PM
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This guy needs to shut up. they should at least fix the ugly hands in ff13.

Last edited by Wissam on 6/25/2010 1:02:20 PM

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:43:10 PM

lol Im glad im not the only one who noticed their crappy hands. Their fingers are freakin squared.

So last gen. ;)

2 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 5:15:36 PM

No, it's an intentional design feature. All Square characters must have square fingers. It's a call-back to old-school RPGs.

;

0 up, 0 down

ABUrabad
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:01:53 PM
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I am really satisfied for the lovely ps3 i have, its delivering great group of games better than ever
as i have been reading before a lot of newly released titles such as GOW3 has increased the graphical optimum limits for games criteria but still it hasnt maxed out the console
but still i still dont care about that as long as developers are being able to release more great games
and beside that i think the cell processor for the ps3 is relatively new for the developers because it was easily invented and still im sure there is a lot of new things to be found and created by newly cell processors that are still under development
the cell processor runs in a very different wat than a normal cpu or than a gpu ,its actually a mix between them

1 up, 0 down

DeathOfChaos
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:23:00 PM
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I took it as him saying the CPUs in this generation are practically close to being fully understood, though the PS3 has yet to be unleashed in full power. I believe that Versus XIII may up the bar in that one, and Wada really has no hand in making this one, lol. I think after Versus XIII is out and running in it's full real-time 1080p glory, games like Uncharted 2 and Killzone 3 are going to be left in the dust. Uncharted 2 was great, but really, the graphics had a bit of a cartoon-ish texture to it. Killzone 3 is a joke, people are excited over what again? Versus XIII is going to give you a whole world to explore (excluding reasonable obstacles), a car you can drive around and get out of at any time, and the graphics to boot are going to be spectacular. If not Advent Children Complete quality, then pretty damn close. The three screen shots that were thrown into circulation, despite the quality a scan of a magazine page gives us, looks amazing! And they're not even done polishing things up yet! I want a demo of Versus, that would kick ass.

0 up, 3 down

Clamedeus
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 3:01:14 PM

I think it'll look on par but not better.

2 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 3:38:14 PM

i find it hilarioius that you think Versus XIII is going to blow everyone's socks off, beat Killzone 3 and Uncharted 2 in the graphics department yet....

None of us have seen the game in action! Only pretty prerenderd cut scenes that Square has been making for decades.

5 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 3:56:37 PM

I think so as well Jawk. It might be close but not better.

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:15:28 PM

I'm sure the game will look great, and maybe even better then uncharted 2 if the focus is kept on the PS3. but to act as if uncharted 2 and killzone 3 are irrelevant based on a game that doesn't even have a release date is a little asinine to me. Ha

0 up, 0 down

Clamedeus
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:24:12 PM

Indeed.

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DjEezzy
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:37:08 PM
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Couldn't agree with you more Highlander. You obviously know your stuff. The question is... Is there any reason to get an xbox now. I mean they give you more memory for the price tag of $299. Still missing the all mighty bluray though. Oh yeah, you can add more memory to the ps3 with relative ease!!! Xbox really does fail. Not that they don't have great games. I would love to play the 2 exclusives they have (Gears of war and mass effect). Not a halo fan. Other than that, they fail.

Is it me, or does Yoichi sound defeated? Kind of get the tone of depression from him. LOL.

Last edited by DjEezzy on 6/25/2010 1:38:34 PM

0 up, 0 down

DeathOfChaos
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:39:12 PM

Their slim console is an even larger failure than their old one. Buy it, and you'll be buying into an even greater problem.

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Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:40:40 PM

None that I can see.

BTW both systems have 512 MB of RAM, the 360's 'advantage' is that it can dynamically partition memory between system and video. Typically though it's fair to consider it a split at about 256/256 like the PS3. the PS3 is hard partitioned so there is always 256MB of video memory and 256MB of system memory.

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Fane1024
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 5:18:49 PM

DJ meant hard drive space, not memory.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 6/26/2010 5:19:31 PM

0 up, 0 down

mehrab2603
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:47:46 PM
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i think he is saying that digital distribution will impact gaming industry more than graphical updates.but i don't see digital distribution succeeding with the current broadband situation.i don't understand why everybody is so interested in it.don't they understand that a lot of people doesn't have decent net connections?

0 up, 0 down

Jawknee
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 1:58:24 PM

Hes also a huge supporter of digital distribution. He would like nothing more then to have more power over the consumer.

This is the new face of Square.

2 up, 0 down

NoSmokingBandit
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 2:25:59 PM
Reply

Wat?

Modern consoles have a hard enough time producing 720p, so theres still quite a bit of power one can cram into a console. Having full 1080p/60hz would be great for the next generation.

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 2:40:36 PM

Both consoles can easily handle 720p or 1280p. The problem is that they can't do that along with the post processing - such as full screen anti-aliasing - that many developers and gamers alike, feel is necessary.

I am hoping that this will be the last generation that relies on the traditional rendering techniques. There should be enough computational power to handle real time ray tracing by the time the next generation launches. If they make that leap, then post processing will be an entirely different prospect. I think that they will actually find that what they lose up front on the sheer processing required, they will regain on the back end with less GPU oomph required.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 3:15:53 PM
Reply

I'd say SE has gone about as far as they could go.

4 up, 0 down

FlyingKickPunch
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:09:35 PM
Reply

I'd like to hit the upper limit of Wada's FACE!

5 up, 0 down

Oyashiro
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:27:54 PM

Heh, Good one!

1 up, 0 down

Oyashiro
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:32:21 PM
Reply

I'm sure they can get more out of there games if they would ditch the practice of CGI Cut-scenes. We are now at a point where we just don't need them anymore. All they do now is take up space.

1 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 5:24:04 PM

Agreed. I'd rather have character models in cut-scenes that reflect the character's actual equipment than the few extra layers of sheen provided by pre-rendering. And I felt that way with regards to FFXII.

With today's hardware, everything can be done in-engine.

0 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:32:49 PM
Reply

WADA - We are dumb a$$es.

Truth be told, I can see why he might think that, but we must remember that there are always higher powered computers coming out, which means there is no reason for more highly powered consoles in the future. Not only that, but the integration of networking capabilities is the first step in turning a console into something much more, and I don't just mean a social networking foundation, or an internet browser. Game streaming such as Onlive, as Oliver mentioned, is a definite possibility. Add to that ray tracing rendering, which Highlander mentioned and greater spatial capabilites from the next generation of media discs.

Not only that but gaming, unlike most other entertainment mediums can benefit from technological leaps outside this particular industry. Holographic projection technology. Biomechanics. Physical augmentation. DNA based computing. These are the future, and if they are not implemented into games sooner or later I would be very surprised. Of course, what I say is hugely cost intensive, so it won't happen for a long time yet, but Wada is a bit off-base, because he refuses to glance outside the protective box that he has constructed around S-E headquarters.

That is all.
Peace.

0 up, 0 down

kraygen
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:35:24 PM
Reply

Technology is always improving and I don't see that changing any time soon. I think every time a new console has come out somehow has made this claim and yet every time after that we get a new console that blows us away with its amazing graphics.

1 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 4:48:36 PM
Reply

Sadly, the fool might have something there. We are reaching the limit of the silicon chip and will soon need to find a way to store and process information through nanotechnology.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 5:09:15 PM

It's not so much that we are reaching silicon's limits we are simply reaching the limits of a single processor core. We can continue to put more cores on chips, and of course put more chips in systems. The trick that we have to learn to pull off is to better use processor cores in parallel instead of individually. Imagine a PS3 based on a processor with 4 times the number of cores and two actual chips meaning you'd have 8 Power cores and 64 SPEs, all more efficient and faster than the current generation. That's possible - and more within the limits of silicon.

We are getting close to the limits in terms of how small we can make things, but that doesn't mean we can't simply put more on the chip or more chips in the package. For example, IBM is working on technology to stack chips in 3D with inter-chip connections build into the package. I've worked with PCs and small systems since the mid 80's and we've heard these calls for thin client computing of cloud based systems off and on for the last 20 years. I've yet to see anything to persuade me that people are done having their own personal computer system or game system. People bi*** enough about the PSN and XBL services now, can you imagine the level to which they'd take it if their entire gaming experience was dependent on such a service?

Last edited by Highlander on 6/25/2010 5:10:38 PM

1 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 5:11:29 PM

^^^^^
Not sure what I said that requires moderator approval, there aren't any links either. Weird.

0 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 5:54:29 PM

yeah I was interested in your thoughts on the matter. Crazy thing.

0 up, 0 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 9:02:03 PM

Sorry, the "bitch" hit the filter.

...I mean, "bi***." ;)

3 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 10:57:11 PM

Many thanks for the clarification Ben. It's not often I fall foul of a language filter.

0 up, 0 down

Highlander
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:07:27 PM

Forgot to say, nice addition to the site. I guess from now on I will have to use expressions like "Looks like the brown has hit the fan", instead of "looks like the sh....tuff has hit the fan".

Nice.

0 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 5:26:04 PM

Ahhh...there it is. The world is right again.

0 up, 0 down

JPBooch
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 5:14:01 PM
Reply

I think all he is trying to say is that you won't see as big a leap in the technology as you did from the N64 to the Sony Playstation. That was revolutionary.

Yes, will get better graphics, but not as big a difference.

It's funny that he is totally discounting 3D by not evenmentioning it. Square has been so lazy these past few years. They pu*** foot around a FFXII remake and pump out one decent title.

I don't think we will see many 3rd part developers embracing 3D until the install base is significant which will take at least 3 years bare minimum. His statements just assures that to me.

0 up, 0 down

JPBooch
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 5:16:46 PM
Reply

Maybe they are trying to prevent those ads someone keeps posting.

0 up, 0 down

Snaaaake
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 5:32:28 PM
Reply

Am I actually hearing this from the CEO of a company that HASN'T made a single PS3 exclusive?

1 up, 0 down

fooosie
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 6:21:59 PM
Reply

why is this even being questioned? The first systems do exactly the same thing as the new ones and that is turn code into awesome. The new systems do it faster bit it is the same none the less. So is SE saying a faster than 3.2ghz processor cannot be made?
True photorealism and mechanics that are identical to nature. THAT will be the limit to video games as we know them and that will only be because there will be no reason to improve

0 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 6:22:25 PM
Reply

Like some have said

When games start looking like FFX, XII, or XIII FMVs THEN they can actually claim this

At the moment graphics look REALLY good, but not on the same level as ps2 FMVs
---

Oh wait, Squeeeeenix's just lazy and want to mainstream all their games and spend less money optimizing their games.

1 up, 0 down

DjEezzy
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 6:40:28 PM
Reply

I agree with Oyashiro. With seeing what the developers did with Uncharted 2 and GOW3, just to name a couple. CG really isn't needed as much anymore. In those two games it felt like you were playing the cutscene. LOL. Uncharted was a little better than GoW 3 at this but It was seamless and it flowed so perfectly in both of them. It just seem that CG video just takes up more space then it does helping a video game tell a story anymore.

2 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 9:20:24 PM

Right and this is PS3 in its early stages. For me anyway my experience started when the slim came out.

2 up, 0 down

BigBoss4ever
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 8:17:07 PM
Reply

shut up Wada, just shut up!!!

3 up, 0 down

shadowscorpio
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 9:18:38 PM
Reply

Is this based on his own physical experience with working on the consoles or is he basing this simply on watching what his employees do on screen?

Sorry, this guys vision has tainted SE. I can't find myself caring about anything he says.

4 up, 0 down

SmokeyPSD
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 10:19:44 PM
Reply

I really... Really dislike this man.

FFXIII to me is barely worth the disc it's printed on, let alone pushing innovation.

0 up, 0 down

StangMan80
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 10:31:04 PM
Reply

This guy is so stupid.
game are going to keep on improving

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Friday, June 25, 2010 @ 11:59:40 PM
Reply

Hey there, Wad-a-crock,

Even Forest Gump knows that "Lazy is, as lazy does"

1 up, 0 down

spiderboi
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 12:32:36 AM
Reply

WADA = Whine And Deliver Atrocities.

2 up, 0 down

___________
Saturday, June 26, 2010 @ 4:56:26 AM
Reply

so says the idiot who uses the "its too hard" excuse!
im starting to think $E have the programming capabilities of a freaking 2 year old apprentice!
maybe if they spent a little time optimizing and polishing their code they would not have these issues?
anyone with half a knowledge of programming could max any system out doing basic file operations.

2 up, 0 down

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Square-Enix: Game Consoles Hitting Their "Upper Limits"

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