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Game Execs: California Game Law Could Mess Things Up

That California game law that goes before the Supreme Court soon is certainly getting a lot of attention, and not just from annoyed gamers.

Game insiders, journalists, and executives are all banding together to fight what many are calling a ridiculously restrictive would-be law. The law would revisit a current California state mandate that would, if passed, restrict the sale of mature-themed games to minors but that's not really the problem. The problem is that, according to what EA CEO John Riccitiello told CNBC, certain retailers might stop carrying "M"-rated games (like how Wal-Mart censors music albums with the Parental Advisory label), thereby impacting sales. Furthermore, what if we had 50 different jurisdictions...? Said Riccitiello:

"...We could end up with state level bureaucracies that define what’s marketable in 50 different jurisdictions across the U.S. I can imagine [the government] trying to tell Steven Spielberg 'We need 50 different cuts of your movie for each state.' It will screw us up in a real way."

The law was originally written back in 2005 by California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and state senator Leland Yee, but in 2007, the California Ninth Circuit Court found the law unconstitutional, ruling that video games are a form of free speech, which means they must be treated as all other forms of entertainment (movies, music, books, etc.). However, with the Supreme Court agreeing to review the law again this year, we could end up with government-mandated labeling guidelines rather than our standard self-regulated labels applied by the ESRB. The ESA (Entertainment Software Association) has already said they plan to fight the new attempt to pass the law. SCEA CEO Jack Tretton summed it up:

"I think the Supreme Court is looking at it to potentially see if there’s something to it or to put an end to it once and for all."

Everything should go before the court this summer so cross your fingers.

Tags: esa, california game law, supreme court

7/7/2010 10:52:46 AM Ben Dutka

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Comments (115 posts)

Highlander
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:11:34 AM
Reply

This may ultimately fall foul of the Interstate Commerce act and be declared unconstitutional.

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Luiscosmo2
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:14:39 AM

I agree.

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kraygen
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:53:18 PM

which it should, government in this country has it's hand in too many cookie jars as it is, last thing I need is big brother telling me what games I can or cannot play.

I don't think it's the governments job to tell parents what their kids can play either, that's what parents are for, not governments.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:11:41 PM

100% agree Kraygen.

You can have my games when your pry them from my cold dead hands!!!

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johnld
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:20:31 PM

if most parents actually pay attention and enforce these guidelines, think of how much better the psn/live experience would be. A man can dream right....so for now, i'm grateful for in game mute function.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 4:08:07 PM

I disagree Kraygen, nationwide regulation is okay, state regulation is what we are talking about here.

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Highlander
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 6:56:04 PM

@Kraygen and Jawknee. In order to have the law declared unconstitutional under the interstate commerce act, I'm pretty sure that the federal government would need to act which would effectively have big brother acting to remove a restriction on your freedom, not adding one.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 9:32:28 PM

If the Supreme Court strikes the law down based on the First Amendment then there would be no need for the feds to act. Once the Supreme Court says its a no go the case can then be taken back to the state to get the law over turned no?

Like in this recent gun decision, the Supreme Court struck down the gun ban in Chicago, those restrictions can now be challenged based on that ruling.

Your right, they wouldn't be adding a freedom rather, reinforcing free speech.

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2010 9:33:51 PM

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manofchao5
Saturday, July 10, 2010 @ 2:17:16 PM

it'd be nice if parts of our Gov't would stop trying to regulate stuff and instead teach the parents to control what their kids can buy so you dont have to order out of state just to get a game you want or possibly stop a game all together

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CaptRon
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:12:33 AM
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Ridiculous...

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Luiscosmo2
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:14:24 AM
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This is ridiculous....I mean sellin to minors...I kinda agree but some minors are more matures then others...Guess the spoiled apple ruins the bunch...

But droppin the M+ Rating completely? Are you people too lazy to check if the game would be selling to minors...Then the goverment could make it pass troguh the whole country? I think Ima cry...

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:16:04 AM
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I thought Walmart stopped censoring music. I haven't seen any censored CD's there in years. Besides, Walmart censoring music was not a government mandate, it was a policy made by Walmart if I'm not mistaken.

I have faith the courts will come down on the side of freedom in this matter. They have been consistent for the most part. If we don't have these kinds of limits and restrictions on movies, i can't see them doing it for games. The First Amendment usually prevails in these matters.

Amazes me that these elites so arrogantly proclaim to know whats best for all of us.

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shadowscorpio
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:05:10 PM

Hope you're correct.

It truly infuriates me. When was the last time the government asked the private sector ( the people whom they are to be governing and representing) how we felt and if we think this is right?

I normally don't like to go into politics on gamers blogs but this particular thread warrants both.

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 7/7/2010 2:05:48 PM

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:20:24 PM

I just hope this gets through the court before this newest Supreme Court nominee is confirmed.

Apparently its okay to ban books because the government won't enforce it anyway. Could this same logic be used for games and movies?

::facepalm::

Hard to believe i know, just google it. "Kagen, it's okay to ban books"

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2010 2:23:34 PM

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MyWorstNightmar
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 9:21:55 PM

I am obviously missing something here. Is this not just a law prohibiting the sale of rated M games to minors? This is not attempting to ban games, just put the control of sales of M games into the hands of parents, right?

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 9:37:33 PM

Parents already have control though.

The ESRB is a private rating system i thought, this job would effectually be taken over by the state government. Bureaucrats will decide whats inappropriate, not consumers. Different standards could be set all over the country causing havoc.

Thats why the 50 different cuts of a movie example was brought up.

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MyWorstNightmar
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 10:02:35 PM

Interesting. I didn't know the ESRB was independent. If there is no teeth behind the rating system to keep games out of minors hands, what is the point to having a rating system.

I have mixed emotions about this. I think mature video games should be kept out of the hands of minors UNLESS purchased by a parent, and given to the child. If there is no governing body to enforce that, I think there should be. This is a democracy, and we all have freedoms, but I don't think someone under the age of 18 gets to enjoy anything they want carte blanche.

I realize people are afraid of the "slippery slope" point of view to this, but I am surprised there is no enforcement to protect children from adult aimed video games.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 10:31:14 PM

I mostly agree with you. I think the trouble with this particular law is California is setting its own standard that's different then the rest of the nation. I suppose if it was more like the movie ratings system, which the ESRB pretty much is, then it would work better. Perhaps the one size fits all standard would work in this instance. Though i still don't like the idea of the state deciding whats appropriate and whats not.

Come to think about it, the MPAA functions much like the ESRB. I'm not sure whats wrong with the current standard other then its largely not enforced at certain stores. My local Target and Walmart card me when i buy a R movie or a M rated game so i guess some are making an effort on their own to keep M games out of kids hands.

How are movie ratings enforced? Say they let a kid into an R rated movie and the authorities find out. What happens at that point?

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2010 10:33:06 PM

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MyWorstNightmar
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 10:42:09 PM

From what I understand, the theaters are self regulated, just like Target or Walmart. There is nothing that happens to the theatre if a kid gets in.

Here is the rub. If the movies were gov regulated, then there would be a fine to theaters who let kids in. If the theater faces a fine because of a minimum wage employee who doesn't give a darn, then the theater would have to make the decision "do we even want to show rated R movies if we keep getting fined for letting in kids?"

I think that is the thinking here for not wanting to regulate the ratings, because with government regulation comes the potential for fines, and businesses won't want to take the chance of getting constantly fined for selling rated M style games to minors, thus they will say heck with it, we won't sell them.

I think there are ways around that. As an adult, you are required to have identification. Put a case with a lock on a rated M game. That will be a reminder to the clerk that they have to check ID for the game. They then unlock the case, and give you the game. This is doable in my oppinion.

Jawk, in terms of your concern about the state being able to pass a law regarding this, they should have the right. States can pass any law they choose. Citizens have the right to challenge those laws in court. And at this point, the nations only standard is to not have a standard since the ESRB is privately run. We could have 50 different laws on the matter, since the Federal government doesn't have a law on the books for the States to follow.

I don't want Target or Walmart deciding what is ok for my child to play, I want to be the one to decide. The only way to make Target or Walmart obide by my parental authority is to have the government establish a law regarding it.



Last edited by MyWorstNightmar on 7/7/2010 10:46:15 PM

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Jawknee
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 12:15:45 AM

i agree completely with that, my only problem is who gets to decide whats appropriate and whats not? Government, the parents or the ESRB?

Maybe the solution is to allow the ratings to be done by the ESRB but leave it to the state to oversee enforcement? Not sure. I don't think there is any easy solution to the problem at hand.

I don't want kids playing games that are too mature for them but i don't want the state telling me what they think is appropriate entertainment and whats not.

hmmmmm...tough one.

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MyWorstNightmar
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 1:14:40 AM

Yep, it is tough. There are no easy answers. You would have a department of people who are unelected, (and therefor unanswerable to the people) deciding what is decent, or offensive, or not suitable for someone under 18. Values and sensitivity to such things as sex and violence vary from person to person. So, in that regard, I am not for gov regulation.

But on the other hand, there needs to be limits to what minors can freely get their hands on. And right now, stores are on the "honor system" to adhere to not selling "M" games to minors. The only time I ever got carded for a game was when I bought Heavy Rain. Course I am 35, so I am sure I look over 18. HA!

I know it sounds like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I do think the law has good motives. It is just such a tough thing to implement properly.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:16:41 AM
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Nothing will come of it. It's too extreme. At MOST, they would merely have to regulate sales of rated games more strictly. I don't even think that will happen.

The only good thing that could come of this is MS's failure, and the west having no choice but to play Japanese made games! XD

I kid! I kid!

My friends! You have this Canadian's support!

Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/7/2010 11:19:09 AM

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SolidFantasy
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:33:39 AM

I hope you're right.

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rogers71
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:31:18 AM
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"Sarcasm begins"

Yeah, the government needs to stay on top of this issue. I mean, everything else going on right now can take a back seat to this really pressing matter. Priorities have now been set in order.

"Sarcasm finished"

GOOD GRIEF, that is all I can say.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:38:14 AM

I know right, California is bankrupt, farmers aren't getting the water they need because of some damn fish, people are leaving the state in droves and this idiot is picking a fight with gamers and the First Amendment?!

These state legislator and Arnold's stupidity never ceases to amaze me. I really hope Californian's wake up and vote these bums out. How does the saying go?

As California goes, so goes the rest of the nation?



Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2010 11:41:01 AM

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coverton341
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:03:22 PM

We're not all sitting around with our heads up our asses. This isn't the only thing he is doing that is stupid though.

At this moment he is motioning to lower the wages of every last state employee to Federal minimum wage. That is lower than the state standard of living wage. Now, I know a lot of people will say "Good state employees get paid too much." and while I agree that some do people like my g/f work for the state but not in the "government" sector and she makes a decent living, not over the top buying yachts kind of cash.

Anyway, I am way off topic. He's being a jackass all the way around, and while most of us here seem to be content with getting screwed some of us have our eyes open.

I'd move if it wasn't for school and my new lady friend.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:02:22 PM

Get your lady friend to move with you. That's what i did.

;)

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 1:14:41 PM

@jawknee
not even touching this one. (-:

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Nickjcal
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:35:22 AM
Reply

This is getting old. Movies to me are more influential than a video game and for god sake they sell freakin porn movies at walmart and other places with entertainment. "American Pie". I mean id rather minors not see that before age than playing a m rated video game or buying one with this matter. But on the other hand i dont understand how this is really going to affect anything. My friend just has his mom come in and buy the game for him after giving the money out. If anything retailers should be fined for selling M-rated games to minors

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Phoelix
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:43:54 PM

It is pretty funny that you could go buy the boobies edition of Eurotrip from Wal-Mart (unrated version, I mean) when you're 13, and these politicians are worried about games you can't buy under the age of adulthood (17 in Missouri).

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:36:46 AM
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This is just another piece of the puzzle. Another way of controlling the American citizen.

It's going to get worse people.

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sawao_yamanaka
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:45:33 AM

Yup its going to get much worse. Hopefully they don't pass it.

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Luiscosmo2
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:46:42 PM

Yep with the Iternet Killswitch...Gov controling us in fron of our eyes *sigh*

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 5:45:11 PM

No kidding. The bill moved onto the Senate. Will be watching this one closely.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 6:25:47 PM

Nov. can't come soon enough.

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SolidFantasy
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 8:45:06 PM

I'm with maxpontiac on this one. This is only putting us one step closer to having nothing...

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Hezzron
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:43:30 AM
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There's always been out of touch politicians badmouthing video games. However, the fact that this was spearheaded by Schwarzenegger only rubs hypocritical salt into my open wounds.

This guy sleeps on a pile of cash thanks to having starred in some of the most violent movies made in the 80's and 90's.

Politics can do funny things to a man....like give him real short term memory.


Last edited by Hezzron on 7/7/2010 11:44:27 AM

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sawao_yamanaka
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:46:19 AM

No to mention his porn gig he did!

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NiteKrawler
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:51:29 AM

Haha. You beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing. Hypocrisy.

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coverton341
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:05:16 PM

Oh but you forget that films are art and video games are interactive murder simulators...(just forget about the games based on Arny flicks)

</sarcasm>

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:01:47 PM

Hypocrisy is an unknown word to these people.

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frostface
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:49:38 AM
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Where's Larry Flynt when ya need him?

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mike rlz
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:02:20 PM

woody harrelson did such a good job in that larry flynt movie!

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Ultimate_Balla
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 11:52:14 AM
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Get ready to bend over, USA. Lol. :-P

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PANICinc
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:12:24 PM
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Join the ECA and let your voice be heard!

http://www.theeca.com/member_home

This is a social injustice targeting gamers. We must not allow this to go through. Join the ECA, contact your local government official and urge them to protest this ridiculous notion. Only then will we be free to play the games we want to play!!

*End Rant*

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FM23
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:24:32 PM
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California become more f*cked up. Who voted to have an german actor take control of California's legislation...I mean honestly, either these high class people didn't know this was going to happen or this was the plan the whole time. This is the problem is power...history time and time has proven big societies crumble and America is working itself towards that state. Economy is bad, over population, no jobs, too much and expensive education/preparation for a carrer in which you will use your salary to pay back loans, and on top of this violence. Man I'm ranting, but this world is depressing...which I could be a kid again where things were more simplier, because all the uglies in life are exposed when you are adult, if your lucky (meaning you didn't grow up already presented with these issue like myself). Point and fact, this law is pointless and there are more important matters that need to be taken care of, but these rich idiots...yeah these rich idiots...enough said...lol

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Qwarktast1c
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:14:32 PM

arnold is austrian, not german.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:20:41 PM

lol

When he ran for his first term he made a lot of promises to clean up the fiscal mess California was in. People wanted to believe him. Also the fact his only competition was Gary Coleman and some airhead porn star probably helped him win.

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2010 2:22:22 PM

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FlyingKickPunch
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:26:02 PM
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So, you're saying AHHnold wants a total recall of all M-rated games? Man, he's acting like a total kindergarten cop. If this passes, looks like games will have seen their last action hero.

...I couldn't think of one for Terminator.

But remember when he said he'd kill videogames last? He lied. (He never said that, just needed a Commando reference.) BOOYAH! :P

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frostface
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:32:12 PM

I think US gaming will now be Terminated. This is no True Lies. He should start Running Man, as the US gamers see Red Heat...could this be End of Days for US gaming as we know it? Why would he want to Eraser this rating system? He's a gaming Predator. What a Raw Deal the US is getting. I guess video games to him are The Expendables.

(ok thats all I got, but dude, still laughin at the commando reference...best line in the movie)

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FlyingKickPunch
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 7:53:27 PM

frostface, that was awesome. Well played, friend. :D

But I guess if he stays in California, and doesn't come try to be a Hercules in New York (where I live), it won't be so bad. :)

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ro kurorai
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 12:26:19 PM
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I hope the Supreme Court finally draws the curtain on that stupid law.
Otherwise America may face similar problems as Germany:
Wheres here I have to import my games from UK or the States as German versions are always butchered, the States (or Cal.) will make no money on mature games which ultimately leads to devs stopping to produce mature games at all -_-

Welcome to the impending games-are-only-for-kids reality x)

Last edited by ro kurorai on 7/7/2010 12:29:25 PM

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Qwarktast1c
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:12:07 PM
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so let me get this straight.........

they want to legalize pot, do absolutely nothing about illegals, boycott a neighboring state because of a law they don't like, spend like freakin crazy when they don't even have the $$........ and yet they do want to make it so that M-rated games are government regulated and therefore harder to sell?

COME ON!!!

that is what the ESRB is for you dolts!! and parents should know what their kids are buying too. RESPONSIBILITY. does that word even mean anything to people anymore??

if minors getting a hold of M-rated games is such an issue, then why don't they do what they are supposed to and card the people?!

obey the laws that are already in place!

of course there are ways to get around that, like having a person who is of age to purchase the game for the minor, but that still brings me to the my point.

quit complaining about your kids playing these games. they are your responsibility. you should know what they are playing.

stop ruining everybody else's fun

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:15:38 PM

Priorities. They obviously never heard of the word.

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MyWorstNightmar
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 10:54:39 PM

"obey the laws that are already in place!"

There is no law in place to make stores obey the rating system. That is what Cali was/is trying to establish.

It is rather hypocritical that Cali wants to establish their own laws (which they DO have the right to do), but then Arizona uses their same right, and Cali calls foul.

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Phoelix
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:20:17 PM
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It would really suck to financially compromise an industry that makes more money than Hollywood.

Fingers crossed.

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dlte
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:24:24 PM
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Another reason I'm glad not to live in California.

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JackC8
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:36:59 PM
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Fifty state governments plus the federal government - all working hard to take away a little freedom here, a little freedom there. Over a period of decades it really adds up.

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kraygen
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:01:13 PM

Agreed, if government wants to make some new laws, how about laws restricting the governments control, because this is getting ridiculous.

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Lawless SXE
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:41:06 PM
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This is insanity. Do these politicians not realise that gaming has become arguably the highest grossing entertainment medium in the world? Why aren't they thinking of the revenue? Instead they try to ban it. Ah, the pain.

In all seriousness though, were it to come to a developer having to modify their game for each and every state, I think that they would choose to not publish it in America. Sure, doing so may slash their sales dramatically, but is it really any worse than having costs blown out by having to change a bunch of tiny things to appease a bunch of hypocrites?

The way I see it though is this: America is the world leader in gaming consumption. This law seeks to destroy that. It may not be blatant, but to take out so much would do it anyway. If the gaming sales drain out of America, there will simply not be enough revenue in the rest of the world for companies to continue developing, and so they will dwindle until nothing is left. It's an assassination, and if there is any right in the world, the Supreme Court will throw it out.

@TaoMeowMeow,
You forgot about Predator :P
Peace.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:46:29 PM

Maybe this is apart of a master plan to stifle the game industry because it has surpassed HollyWeird?

Where's Wooka with his seemingly Patriotic fist and his conspiracy theories when you need him?!

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2010 1:50:37 PM

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JMO_INDY
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:45:32 PM
Reply

Good thing I have a brother working at Columbia House ;)

Last edited by JMO_INDY on 7/7/2010 1:46:31 PM

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CharlesD
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:49:35 PM
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This is an all around bad idea in far too many ways. I don't really care about the age restriction but when it comes to government labeling and having certain businesses dropping all "M" rated games.. well that's just plain silly

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 1:52:15 PM
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Can't wait till your gaming law is TERMINATED with extreme prejudice!!!
And then hopefully, the citizens of Cali can get your term as Governor, Totally Recall(ed) too.

Arny,
Instead of trying to stifle America's freedom of choice, try putting the blame squarely where it should lie....
with bad parents,(and your own self, by being the proven hypocrite you are.





Last edited by BikerSaint on 7/7/2010 1:53:34 PM

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kraygen
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:07:48 PM

This summer Arnold brings video game JUDGMENT DAY to the world and on THE 6TH DAY, things will have become so bad that the COLLATERAL DAMAGE will lead to THE END OF DAYS for humanity and bring about THE RISE OF THE MACHINES.

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RadioHeader
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 4:18:20 PM

Errrm.....Hercules in New York......ummm....I got nothing.

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tlpn99
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:14:26 PM
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Games ratings do they work ? They are there as a guide for some people.

How many times have you seen an older brother/sister/relative buying GTA or any 18 rated game for the younger siblings/relatives etc ?

I was in Game the other day in the UK and this man said his 8 year old son loved the GTA games as he was asking about Liberty City Stories for his son.

Last edited by tlpn99 on 7/7/2010 2:16:12 PM

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Milonakis
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 2:54:33 PM
Reply

Something tells me the future of postal 3 is another banning :(

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fluffer nutter
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 3:02:22 PM
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I don't see this passing. As long as the industry representatives give a good, accurate, understanding of how much this will effect commerce, the Supreme Court justices will not want to add to the plight of our economy. Especially, with the current state. Have hope people because if this were to pass, it would be a lose/lose situation for a great many.

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fluffer nutter
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 4:13:45 PM

*affect.

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Zorigo
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 3:53:37 PM
Reply

that really would eff things up badly.
So far the UK government hasn't been to bad about games. But i don't exactly know where the con-dems stand on this.
I say con-dems but its actually just the conservatives in power. lib dems are just the coat hangers. But even so, i don't think anything bad is going to happen for games here, but if this does pass in the US, then perhaps, as Cameron is a complete douche, it might affect things over here.
crap.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 4:15:55 PM
Reply

Why is it that the Party that wants tons of deregulation and for Government to get out of their business want to tell us what we can and can't do as a hobby?

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 5:06:31 PM

They don't. Arnolds not a real Republican. He's RINO always has been.

Besides, your mistating their position, they don't want "tons" of deregulation, just a little less. ;)

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/7/2010 5:30:49 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 5:19:44 PM

Well I want Oil rigs and Mines that don't explode.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 6:08:16 PM

Me too but that doesn't mean we should shut down the entire offshore oil industry does it? Next time a plane crashes maybe we should ground all the planes. ;)

Common sense regulations are needed, I think we can all agree on that. The problem is common sense seems to be seriously lacking.

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Highlander
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 6:58:08 PM

@Jawknee,

After a major air accident the FAA and TSA do in fact routinely ground all aircraft of the same type until safety inspections can be carried out.

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 8:56:24 PM

One plane crash and they ground every plane in the country or in the region?

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 9:10:43 PM

ah, never mind, i get it. lol i miss read your comment. >_<

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 1:18:04 PM

@jawknee
I don't get it, I make political comments and all hell breaks loose and you go around gaming news articles spewing right wing support and leftist discontent and never so much as get a slap on the wrist. You are some character.
Sincerely,
Your old friend, Natal.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 3:19:52 PM

1) Jawk didn't spread propaganda in this tread at all, as far as I can tell.

2) Jawk gets slapped on the wrist for political stuff all the time! lol

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Jawknee
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 3:24:58 PM

Don't even bother Underdog. It's not worth talking to him about.

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 10:00:27 PM

There he goes on the righteous path, oh jawknee thank god for your non-partisan goody two shoes commenting existence here on psx. (oh tis quite sarcasm)

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Jawknee
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 1:06:43 AM

uh huh...what ever you say guy.

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arctic
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 5:02:44 PM
Reply

fu***ng brainwashing attempt

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Snaaaake
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 5:52:42 PM
Reply

Hmmm, not like it's gonna matter to me but I hope for the best.

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THEVERDIN
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 5:56:59 PM
Reply

Fahrenheit 451 The government decides what"s good for us. BS the whole government should be replaced.

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Highlander
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 6:56:37 PM

State law, not federal. Please let's not descend into politics.

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Naga
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 7:05:47 PM
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Well I guess it'll encourage more platformers maybe even sink Call of Duty and FPS to were they belong.

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ExhumeART
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 8:20:25 PM
Reply

Ending the selling of M rated products would significantly decrease the amount of income generated by the state, which is, let's face it, pretty damn low right now. It's ignorant and (surprisingly) immature to stop selling M rated games. I've always found the issue of selling M rated games to minors pretty straight-forward, but not selling them to legal adults is absurd, and in a sense, unconstitutional.

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Jed
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 8:20:51 PM
Reply

How ironic is it that the king of R rated bloody shootin people in face movies wrote this?

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, July 07, 2010 @ 8:44:21 PM

I've always thought it was a pretty big irony myself.

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bigrailer19
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 12:23:12 AM
Reply

So here's the thing. Kids under 17 shouldn't be playing these games regardless unless the parent okays it. I still think its a fine line when your a lot younger though. Granted I was playing MK when I was 10 and grew up just fine, but my point is, its by the parent.

Most retailers I know of wont sell an M rated game to someone under 17. Here in Oregon you get carded for it. Which is what retailers should do, because then it stops this nonsense from happening. So if this is the case, I think the supreme court will just put an end to this and shoot it down.

I don't see a real problem here. They want to make it so kids 17 and under cant buy the M rated game, when if the retailer is doing there job they can't anyways... Again its all on the parent!

It just seems like its just a big circle to me.

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___________
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 3:23:30 AM
Reply

huh? i thought it was already illegal to sell M rated games to minors in the US?
that should be a given, i mean thats what rating systems are for no?
though, stores refusing to stock M rated games now thats just stupid!

kinda like the BS i have to put up with here, i really can not understand the inconsistency of the OFLC.
L4D2 is no where near as graphic as some other games that got passed, dead rising 2 is 10 times worse than L4D2.
so guess which one got banned?
thats right, the less graphic one.
GO FIGURE!

thats it ive cracked it, its simple!
its all about how much sugar you offer them, if you know what i mean ;)
obviously valve are not as good at the under the table game as capcom are...................

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MyWorstNightmar
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 11:11:34 AM

I agree with you.

In terms of stores not stocking the game, such as Walmart, it would be just in Cali that they don't, not necessarily do to a moral stance, but because they wouldn't want to risk getting fines for an employee not paying attention and selling to a minor.

Not sure how they would handle the labeling of the games "just" in Cali. They want something like a Parental warning label on them, and if that is just in California, then that causes a manufacturing issue. Perhaps the stores could be responsible for putting the sticker on the package. However, the law makers might require them to hard print it on there, just like the "M" is currently hard printed on it.

There are a lot of questions and complications that are raised. I do support the thought behind the law, but I wonder if there is a better way to implement it. I don't have the answers.

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Highlander
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 8:10:37 PM

To my simple mind, it seems to me that M rated games should be treated no differently to R rated movies. If a store stocks an R Rated movie, then whatever regulations govern it's sale should cover the M rated game as well, the ratings are equivalent. Treating games differently is not equitable, and politically driven.

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Jawknee
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 1:05:08 AM

We agree again Highlander. :)

They should be consistent at the very least.

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MyWorstNightmar
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 10:21:02 AM

Video games will always be viewed differently than movies moving forward. 15 to 20 years ago that was not the case, but video games are becoming more and more realistic, and as they continue to get more realistic, violent, and immersive, so will the movement to push back against them as it pertains to keeping them out of the hands of minors.

The focus is on video games, because kids are not clammering to get their hands on the new Saw moving coming out on DVD for 90 minutes of hack n slash fun. They want the 20 hour, 40 hour, 60 hour, 100 hour immersive M rated experience video games.

If kids are buying R movies over the counter with little resistance, well that is a problem, but I view the video game issue more pressing.

I don't think the law or passing it is politically driven. There is a culteral purpose behind it. The attempt to squash it by political leaders IS political. They are trying to score political points with certain constituents. That is the way the game is played.

As far as some in this thread saying that they thought Repubs are for LESS regulation? For the most part that is true. But when it comes to "protecting youth", you can always count on Repubs to show their face. Alternatively, you can count on Dems to push the opposite view, such as paid abortions for girls under 18 without parental consent or even knowledge of the abortion happening.

Last edited by MyWorstNightmar on 7/9/2010 10:24:06 AM

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BikerSaint
Thursday, July 08, 2010 @ 10:57:09 PM
Reply

Video Games and the Cycle of Censorship

http://www.bitmob.com/articles/monster-of-the-week-video-games-and-the-cycle-of-censorship

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MyWorstNightmar
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 10:50:25 AM

Thanks for the article.

The writer at the beginning of the peice says the "United States Supreme Court is about to rule on whether or not video games are protected by free speech. Specifically, the court will rule on the constitutionality of California's AB 1792, which gives violent video games a legal designation as "harmful matter," and therefore makes their sale to minors punishable by law."

And then at the end, he says: "This is where we are now: The Supreme Court is going to rule on whether games can be selectively banned"

How and why does he take the leap to call making it illegal to sell video games that are deemed to have mature materials to minors akin to "banning" them?

So, I got carded at Kmart when I bought Heavy Rain. Are we to say that Kmart is "banning" Heavy Rain? No, they just want to make sure it doesn't get purchased by a minor. Well, California says we agree with that philosophy, and we want to go ahead and make it law, so that Kmart is required to check id.

I have a feeling you have read more on this?

The government doesn't allow nudity or swearing during prime time on T.V. to "protect minors", so why doesn't the Supreme Court throw that out as unconstitutional?

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Jawknee
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 12:20:26 PM

I think the problem isn't that games will be banned, it's that the state will get to decide whats decent and whats not.

Remember those Faces of Death movies? Well those are completely inappropriate but i don't need a government mandate reminding me of this. Seems to me, if parents don't want their kids playing M rated games then the parents should be that much more involved in their kids gaming habits. Don't need a new law and a new bureaucracy for that.

I wasn't able to buy M rated games as a kid and it wasn't because of lack of trying, believe me. The parents new what i was playing at all times until i was 18.

I do understand your points Myworst, however i think the older gamers get the easier it will be for us to self regulate. My parents generation didn't grow up with games like you and i did. They wouldn't have less knowledge(my parents are an exception since they wouldn't even let me have Parasite Eve until i was 18) about them and the ratings system but that's quickly changing as you and i are getting older. Most of us will know what to look for and what to keep out of our kids hands.

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/9/2010 12:27:05 PM

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MyWorstNightmar
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 12:53:56 PM

I guess I still don't understand the hub bub about this. Either I haven't read the right article, or haven't seen this from the correct perspective. And I know Jawk, that you know how these things get OVERBLOWN. We go from Cali wanting to make sure M games don't get purchased by minors, and so that gets exagerated into meaning Cali wants to BAN games.

We go from Arizona wanting to enforce immigration laws that are already on the books, and Obama exagerates, saying Mexicans won't even get to go by ice cream without the police wanting to see their papers.

I don't see this as any different than Walmart already carding kids, but this in the long run will just cause Walmart to HAVE to card kids.

I dunno, I am sure I must be all wet on this topic, and I am not seeing the forest for the trees.

Last edited by MyWorstNightmar on 7/9/2010 12:55:29 PM

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D1g1tal5torm
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 4:11:24 AM
Reply

Good news for us in the uk and the far east - more focus on game launches (and games)

pass that law yankee boys.

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Highlander
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 9:30:36 AM

You wouldn't say that to someone south of the Mason Dixon line. You'd get run out of town for calling anyone around here a 'yankee boy'. That's assuming you made it out alive of course... ;)

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SmokeyPSD
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 4:11:25 PM
Reply

Looks like Australia isn't the only 1 that has to deal with bullshit.

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BikerSaint
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 5:18:16 PM
Reply

MyWorstMar,

We're already overrun with too many stupid censorship laws by those few that have their own personal agenda's.

I've been called a long-time rebel-rouser by my governmental sheep herders. But I'm more a freedom fighter because my thinking & ideas are twofold... less Government, less censorship.

I'm not willing to roll over for them, but that I am willing to take a stand against ANY President, the feds, my state, local government, any agency, &/or individual person that want's to stomp on my own individual rights

And besides, most forms of censorship these days isn't to keep us all safe from harm, it's become a tool born from the "FEW" minds of either, misguided, tyrannical, dictatorial sh!t-stirring zealots & self-appointed safety-nanny's who think that what's good for them, just has to be good for us too.

And the biggest & most dangerous part is it's become their #1 favorite tool to try & suppress us, and our way freedoms. By slowly chipping away at our freedoms & choice, they can knock out all our right's one by one till there's nothing left for but to either become a freedom fighter, or just become those very same cowering-in-a-corner sheep they've wanted you to be all along.
"Ya, welcome to the flock...your papers please"

Well, I call bullsh!t on that, and them!!

Besides, there's already laws on our books to combat under 18's from buying any item of mature content. And it's the parent's responsibility, not the government's, to set the proper guidelines & family boundaries.
If anything should be enforced, I'd rather see the self-imposed safety nannys start hanging around all the Gamestop type stores, and charge those parents buying mature games for their 8 year olds, with some form of child neglect or malfeasance.

The writers of our constitution would be spinning in their graves if they saw how watered down the zealots have already made it.

(BTW, as for anyone crying "no politics" about my post, it's my honest reply stating my opinion to MyWorstNightMar's question.... tough, get over your selves!)
***********************************

diggiestorm,

Seriously, is that statement all you got?????
That's the typical comment that only the self-absorbed, selfish, "Me Myself, & I" generation ever use.

Here's why you're not thinking too smart with that comment, ........

If this bill passes, you better prepare yourself as more & more countries all over the world jump on the "censorship" bandwagon, in a fallen domino effect.

Then what will you do beside moan, bi*ch, cry, and complain(and blame it on everyone else instead of accussing your very own mirrored reflection) when all your personal rights have also been taken away?????

And just what will you do when your fancy little house of cards called "individual rights" has been suddenly surrounded, blown over, and then trampled by just a few zealots.

Today they're trying for America, but tommorow....the world



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MyWorstNightmar
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 5:52:49 PM

Biker, first off, I agree with everything you said. I see you put a couple of links below, but they haven't been approved yet. Interested to see what they are.

I am against censorship of any kind. Do you believe this law is censorship? They aren't banning materials are they? I thought it was to put age requirements on the selling of mature games, which many stores already try to enforce, sometimes without much luck due to lazy employees.

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D1g1tal5torm
Saturday, July 10, 2010 @ 2:05:42 PM

It's mad nutters like you who can take a joke and end up shooting people.

Humour seems to be lost on you.

Rant over

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Jawknee
Saturday, July 10, 2010 @ 2:43:32 PM

DigitalStorm get the hell out of here with that crap.

Bikersaint has convictions and feels strongly about them, doesn't mean hes going to go on a shooting rampage.

What a despicable comment from you. Get lost.

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D1g1tal5torm
Monday, July 12, 2010 @ 3:50:19 AM

You're a barrel of laughs too, aren't you?

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BikerSaint
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 5:24:37 PM
Reply


Leading Game Developers Supporting the Gamer Petition

http://gamepolitics.com/2010/07/08/leading-game-devs-supporting-gamer-petition

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BikerSaint
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 5:33:20 PM
Reply

Here's what China's going to be implementing now....

China Moves to Protect Young Online Gamers
June 22, 2010

Beginning August 1, online game operators in China will be forced to take a series of steps to protect online gamers under the age of 18 from inappropriate content and selling or buying items using virtual currency.

According to the Xinhua News Agency, online games created for minors will have to lose any content that would lead to “imitation of behavior that violates social morals and the law.” The regulations deal with content that is horrifying, cruel or otherwise unwholesome, specifically any portrayals of “pornography, cults, superstitions, gambling and violence.”

The virtual currency ban was said to be made possible by a new rule that online game players must register game accounts using their real name.

Gaming operators were also told to “develop techniques that would limit the gaming time of minors in order to prevent addiction, though without specifying what kinds of techniques and a permissible gaming time.”

Bloomberg reported that shares in Tencent Holdings Ltd., described as China’s largest Internet company in terms of market value, and a “leading provider of virtual currency services,” saw its shares fall as much as 5.3 percent after the new regulations were announced.

http://gamepolitics.com/2010/06/22/china-moves-protect-young-online-gamers
***********************************

China Bans "Vulgar" Game Adverts
July 8, 2010

China’s Ministry of Culture has grown weary of online game companies using vulgar, violent or profane tactics in order to lure consumers to purchase their titles, so it has banned the practice.

The BBC reports that, beginning next month, Chinese officials will be able to force website owners to delete any vulgar content employed in online promotions. Supposedly, one model named Shou Shou (pictured), who was recently embroiled in a sex video controversy, was asked to promote a role-playing game while another unnamed Japanese adult film star was being used to draw attention to the Game Warrior OL.

“Social commentators” worried that the practice, though not illegal at the time, could “undermine the public's morals. “

The BBC added that, “The new policy has been covered widely in the state-controlled media and on websites here, accompanied of course by photos of the same scantily clad models who have upset the bureaucrats.” Who are we to break ranks?

Update: AFP adds a specific date for the implementation (August 1), while noting that users who sign up to play a game will also have to use "a valid identity card," after that date, a move which was alluded to earlier.

http://gamepolitics.com/2010/07/08/china-bans-quotvulgarquot-game-adverts

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BikerSaint
Friday, July 09, 2010 @ 9:08:26 PM
Reply

MyWorstNightMar,
Yes, I believe it's censorship for 3 reasons

1. We already have all the laws on the books against minors buying mature/adult themed products, so no more of the same are even needed. And there's already laws against bad register biscuits too, they just need to be enforced better(just like how they do the under-age cigarette store stings, sending in cooperating non-smoking minors hired to try to buy smokes illegally).

Like I said before, if any new bill should be made at all, it should be one that charges those few bad parent's with child neglect or parental malfeasance.

2. We already have the ratings we need to be knowledgeable in place and they work 100% perfectly.

It's only because of some unscrupulous register biscuits, and these bad parent's that we see all the time, who either spoil their kid with everything the little rugrat wants, or they have no proper parenting skills, so when the lil' type pulls their best patented psychological ploy(alias:"THE TANTRUM") at the top of their lungs in the store, the parent can't, or won't handle it.
So they just automatically accept defeat & give in every single time.
BTW, those parent's should just go legally change their last names to "Stradivarius", cause their kid's will forever be playing them like a fiddle.

3. I believe this new bill that Arny's trying to get, isn't to enforce the under 18 law that's already on the books at all, but it's actually being done to stifle the games themselves, though by a sneaky indirect mean.

The way I see it it will do 2 things if this bill passes,

1. It's a litmus test towards adding even more new related bills that slowly chip away everyone's rights. And if it passes, then it's already too late, because you'll be watching a new flood of seemingly innocent bills from all over the 50 states start pouring out too in more attempt's on eroding individual rights.

2. You have to seriously read between the lines with this bill.
I mean...like why add this bill when there's so many laws already in place for the same thing?
So I start thinking like them, and I now can see a hidden agenda & a ulterior motive of what I think this bill is really trying to do.

And that is, that if it passes, they're hoping this will cause more store chains like Walmart to refuse any game with the new rating attached to it, thereby choking the funds for games with the new rating sticker, whether they're actually uber-violent and/or raunchy, OR NOT!!!!.

And furthermore, they are also hoping it will also confuse the developers & publishers enough that they won't take any chances making any adult games, and just pump out the watered-down games that Arny & his hidden-agenda, behind-the-scenes, cronies actually want.

BTW, I don't think Arny came up with this idea at all, since almost all his films & video games have violence and more in them.

I think that Arny's just being used as a puppet who's string's are really being pulled by someone(or some group) that's quite powerful politically, & rich.
Either that or Arny's got future political plans, and/or someone up higher his political food chain has got some major dirt on him that he doesn't ever want to get out in the media.

Last edited by BikerSaint on 7/9/2010 9:14:00 PM

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Jawknee
Saturday, July 10, 2010 @ 10:22:43 AM

It's not the governments job to protect us from ourselves. It's their job to protect our rights enshined on the Constitution.

Your right, children shouldn't be allowed to buy mature content and if they do that falls on the parents. Government is NOT the parent. We don't need another nanny state law. It's this kind of arrogance from the government elites that got people so pissed off. This law is just more f this arrogance.

Last edited by Jawknee on 7/10/2010 10:29:54 AM

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Jawknee
Saturday, July 10, 2010 @ 11:59:59 AM

The parents.

Surely if you think there is a difference between movies and games where games should be more heavily regulated then movies, you can see the difference between video games and substance abuse.

I cite from my own convictions. I kindly ask you NOT to assume to know who or where i get my information from. I don't question your motives or where you get your convictions because i have no way of knowing. I ask that you extend me the same respect.

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Fane1024
Saturday, July 10, 2010 @ 5:44:05 PM

For once, I agree with Jawknee, and I'm about as left-wing as you can get.

Neither the ESRB nor the government have the right to PREVENT anyone from buying something protected by the First Amendment (i.e., not alcohol or cigarettes). They can rate it for content, but once they start enforcing those ratings with fines or jail time, it is de facto censorship.

Likewise, Walmart can choose not to sell an item at all, but can not discriminate by selling it to some people and not others.

If you don't want your kids getting a hold of "adult" material, that's on you. Just know you're going to fail regardless of what you do.

p.s. If the government were really elite, they wouldn't do stupid things like this. It's because they pander to the hoi polloi that this sort of legislation exists.

Last edited by Fane1024 on 7/10/2010 5:48:44 PM

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