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Editorial: Are Shooter Fans Dunces And RPG Fans Einsteins?

This is one of those times when I'm not telling; I'm asking. Before the shooter fans freak out, please bear in mind that I'm not about to offer up my own opinion as a definitive answer.

It's a question that has a place in most any entertainment venue: is the type of entertainment in which you indulge indicative of your raw intelligence? Perhaps it stands to reason that those who listen to classical music, watch award-winning foreign films with subtitles, and read literary classics are smarter than those who listen to hip-hop or metal, list "Hot Tub Time Machine" as one of their favorite movies, and read Danielle Steele and believe it's actually a good novel. Of course, I just set myself up for plenty of repercussions because I implied certain groups of people aren't intelligent just 'cuz they like rap or chick lit or whatever, but I'm hoping the truly intelligent people can understand I'm merely trying to make a point. And in relation to gaming, can it be said that role-playing fans (or fans of artistic, story-driven games like Heavy Rain) are, in general, smarter than fans of shooters?

It's true that some games take more in the way of thought and brain-power, and there are quite a few kids and other not-so-bright individuals who really only play sports games and shooters. But maybe gaming is different. For the most part, hardcore gamers really enjoy playing many different genres; if it's fantastic, they probably want to experience it. Furthermore, some of the more in-depth games require bigger time commitments, and time is something some very intelligent people simply don't have. So just because they kick back with a fun shooter every now and then doesn't stop that person from being a chemist during the day. On top of which, we can never discount personal preferences. Some people just don't like RPGs or so-called "deeper" interactive adventures; they play to have fun, and their idea of fun is a simple, motion-driven, fully accessible Wii game.

In your experience, what do you find to be true? I mean, we shouldn't forget that complex and intricate video games didn't really exist when we were growing up, and as gaming was a "nerd's hobby" and nerds were - almost by definition - really smart, the intelligent people grew up playing simple, straightforward, shoot-'em-ups and beat-'em-ups. Now, maybe they've grown up since and, being intelligent, have graduated to deeper games. But then again, maybe they still love the easier, pick-up-and-play titles to this day. ...maybe it just isn't fair to think we can predict a person's base intelligence by the games they play.

Tags: rpgs, shooters, gamers, game forums

7/21/2010 9:46:23 PM Ben Dutka

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Comments (180 posts)

wakkaoaka
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:06:09 PM
Reply

It's hard to say. In all genres I think there are both intelligent, and stupid players. Right now i'm playing a lot of killzone 2 instead of ffxiii because it's a great release after university. This year i've been liking 'simple' games like Split Second because of the above reason.

Anyways, i think that the most intelligent gamer wouldn't stick to any genre... but play any sort of game, as long as it is "good". But then again, intelligence is subjective...

Last edited by wakkaoaka on 7/21/2010 10:06:18 PM

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Riku994
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:07:23 PM
Reply

Did...did you mean to type "Shooter funs"?

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:40:46 PM

oh the irony.

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Hitch
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:42:28 PM

Of what, shooters being fun? Or that a shooter fan would be likely to make a spelling error like that...

Last edited by Hitch on 7/21/2010 10:43:07 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:44:57 PM

You almost had it Hitch, that a huge RPG fan would make that mistake when the article asks us this particular question.

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Hitch
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:47:16 PM

Oh ok I see...

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:42:01 PM

Sorry, the instant I posted this I lost power for a while. So I couldn't correct it until now.

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fluffer nutter
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:33:05 AM

In other news, "lost power" becomes the new term for playing with the Wii.

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Beamboom
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 5:08:51 AM

LOL - punchline of the month, Fluffer!

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Pandacastro
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:12:15 PM
Reply

This is a tough topic. In my school theres kids that do drugs and some of the teachers make fun of them but out of nowhere one of them outsmarted the teacher and was embarrass.Some other who fails a lot of classes got a perfect score in those government test and those that study barely pass.However I dont know about video games. Most of my friends play shooters and make of me for hating mw2.

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Highlander
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:19:19 PM
Reply

Hmmm...well, I'm gonna give a non-answer in answer to your question.

RPGs require strategy, planning and management skills, it's very much a case of planning in advance and managing the resources during combat.

Shooters require different kinds of strategy, more tactical and situational awareness and you must more interactively manage what is going on.

I think that in both cases a smart gamer can excel. The smarter gamer will learn the AI and exploit it.

Now, to generalize I don't think that the majority of Shooter players are gifted with the sharpest wits. I do think that in general RPG players have a higher proportion of 'smart' folks. It's a more bookish game style, and as anyone (including Ben) can tell you people who read for pleasure are statistically likely to have a higher IQ than those that do not regularly read for pleasure.

I think that forms of entertainment that feature large amounts of violence and action do appeal to people with lower IQ scores and poorer education. Again this is a generalization, nothing more or less. And it doesn't mean that if you like an action movie and a shooter, that I think you can't tie your own shoe laces. Far from it. We're talking about a few IQ points here and there and differences in educational history.

OK, I know some are probably wanting to call me an elitist pig. No, I'm not. I'm not making a judgment here at all. I love action movies and play action games, and even the occasional multi-player action like Uncharted 2 online. It's not about specifics, it's about the general picture and trends.

It's like the differebnce between geeks and jocks. Geeks generally will like the RPGS, jocks (and believe me I thought long and hard about using this word instead of others) will gravitate towards shooters and twitch gaming. One kind of game favors cereberal reactions, and the other favors physical reaction (twitchers).

SO, in general I think there is a pattern, but on a gamer by gamer basis, it depends on a lot of factors. So I guess I'm saying yes...but it depends.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:44:06 PM

A fine job separating trends from a cause and effect relationship I say :)

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Underdog15
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:56:14 PM

What am I? My first degree is a double major in Theatre Arts and Physical Education. And in high school, I was a bandie and a jock. Obviously, as a huge video game fan and interest in scholastic studies, I suppose I'm a mix... call me a jeek... or a knock...

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:04:57 PM

Not everyone fits into a category Underdog... ya big Jerd.

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:44:48 PM

Sounds about right. But yeah, I suppose any correct answer would have to be a "non-answer" because so many factors have to be taken into account.

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:57:50 PM

Can't argue with that.

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Highlander
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:10:35 AM

With age comes wisdom, and gray hair...and slower reaction times.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:30:16 PM

I LOL'ed at the shoe-tying bit!

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Temjin001
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:21:33 PM
Reply

I can't answer this question with anything serious, so I;ll answer it with this...

I was born a twitch-gamer and I'll die a twitch gamer, and no one ever has, or will be, smarter than me.

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Highlander
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:28:15 PM

INdeed, but you have to admit that there are more than a few utter morons who play shooters? Not everyone by any means, but shooters do seem to attract more than their fair share of idiots, especially online.

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Temjin001
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:41:04 PM

Highlander, you were supposed to say "spoken like a true twitcher."

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Underdog15
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:41:18 PM

Oh for sure. You certainly cannot put folks in the same boat. My cousin-in-law is currently attaining his PhD in medical physics, and he is a shooter fan. Mind you, he enjoys games like Portal, as well, but his game of choice is a shooter.

However, most people I see playing MW2, are pretty dumb. I've had countless people harp on me for being cheap for using a heartbeat sensor. But why then continue to NOT use ninja, and rush at me is beyond me. Similarly, when someone has a comment about my game style, somehow my mother and her raciness comes into the discussion. Now, I know these shooter fans are either lying or are truly unintelligent... I mean... afterall... even my father wouldn't want to brag about banging my mom in the proverbial 'sac'. Why anyone would be proud of that is beyond me.

Nevertheless, I typically give the same feedback to these folks suggesting they try dropping the controller, moving out of their parents basement, and sign up for a GED course to make up for being a high school drop out.

(Side note of hilarity: I once called a "I did your mom" player a high school drop out. He followed up with a moment of silence followed by a... "Shut the ^$%* up! School's for gay &$*#'s!" ... so... case in point, perhaps?)

Nevertheless, I seem to come across these types of people every night I play with my friends, yet on ModNation Racers, for example, I have yet to encounter these morons. I regularly encounter well spoken individuals (a rare novelty in MW2, I assure you!) and have a great time with perfect strangers!!

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:43:28 PM

Out of the blue: Even I am starting to worry we won't see a Modnation review Underdog.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 7/21/2010 10:46:05 PM

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Underdog15
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:52:06 PM

I'll do one soon, probably. I've actually been working on a huge project about video games and art, which is why I haven't done any reviews in a while. It's a big work that I'm trying to be very thorough with. I'm also making sure I have a huge number of references to deal with so the research isn't too saturated with personal opinion. Since I believe video games CAN be tremendous works of art (which we've seen), I am a believer that the research will point in that direction. Obviously, with such a subjective study, it's important to be very clear with lots of representation of data.

So... ya... busy with that. lol

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:05:52 PM

Oh don't hurry, I meant PSXE, but I will read yours too.

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PAKINIPS
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:51:33 AM

Still haven't purchased modnation racers. I need one more review from my trusted site

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fluffer nutter
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:42:39 PM

Just get the game already! Now! Get some beer and steer those queers! Yeehaw!

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:22:49 PM
Reply

I'm not sure what side of the coin my smarts lie with playing games, since I'm not into the real RPGs, or strategy games(oh sports either).

But I do like FPS, TPS, puzzlers, & platform games, so maybe I'm just a semi-intellectual game-test dummy.



Last edited by BikerSaint on 7/21/2010 10:25:14 PM

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Highlander
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:26:15 PM

that's what I was getting at in my post, it's a different kind of intelligence. I think that there can just as easily be a smart Shooter player out there. Sometimes it's the players taste in games, sometimes it's what they're good at, and sometimes it's just circumstance. But you have to admit that the online multi-player shooter scene is populated by the intellectual dregs of society...especially on the Xbox PleaseFixMe.

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ace_boon_coon
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:19:23 PM

well i love all geners, but i loved rpg's more when i was younger now i love shooters, i also love hip hop. i consider myself pretty smart, so this stupid may not be that accurate. there are smart shooters that you can't just run through. i blame call of duty for this study.

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Sir Shak
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:25:13 PM
Reply

Kind of ironic when you write an article about intelligence and make a spelling mistake in the title. :)

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WolfCrimson
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:33:36 AM

Intelligence and making mistakes aren't related.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:14:12 PM

True, but I believe humility, and the ability to admit ones mistakes, and correct them, are.

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WolfCrimson
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:13:44 PM

Hehe, true.

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StangMan80
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:25:40 PM
Reply

I don't think you can judge someones "intelligents" by what games they play.
I my self like GT5, Infamous, Red Dead Redemption, Dirt, Kill Zone, Uncharted, and Havy Rain.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:48:20 PM

lol @ "intelligents"

And I proclaim this article is "bias"!

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Jawknee
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:52:51 PM

LOL!

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Qubex
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:29:40 PM
Reply

Ben, it is quite a complex question to deliberate because one cannot judge a book by its cover.

What life has taught me over the years is that assuming anything, when it comes to judgment of character, "usually" amounts to incorrect speculation - for the most part.

Most human beings surprise, either way... This applies to gamers and their motivations for purchasing certain titles and playing them...

A quick example. You may get a top accountant, a specialist brain surgeon, a very talented mathematician... and yet, when the get home after a very heavy day at the office, surgery or lecture hall, they may simply want to sit down in front of games that are "easy" on them.

They don't particularly want to use their brains... they are exhausted and they descend into "twitch gaming" for their fix... they need to relax, they don't want to track complex stories or try to figure out the mechanics of a deep RPG.

But, you can never tell, because some people who come home having had a very demanding day, have such active minds, are so brilliant in what they do, that if they sit down and play something too "simple" they get bored and switch off.

They actually perform worst as a casual gamer rather than playing as a hardcore gamer; simply because their minds need a challenge, every second of the day. It is the way they, the way they are wired up.

You may meet an individual who seems quiet, maybe even a little slow, doesn't have a particularly interesting career but is happy with an average wage and more spare time than most to play games.

You then discover he is a brilliant gamer, has all the platinum trophies, and is as hardcore as you can get. Same with females; it is difficult to judge until you get to know that character... therefore, generally speaking, one can't assume anything.

Humanity surprises me everyday... I see/read/hear/talk to what amounts to pure stupidity, or pure genius. It cuts both ways, and yet these types of people fit into a variety of gamer categories.

It is very difficult to tell without knowing the individual concerned to some extent.

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 7/21/2010 10:36:52 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:49:09 PM

Be careful what you think you know about somebody because you are probably wrong :)

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Qubex
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:12:52 AM

Yes, that is a good way of summarising it World...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Alienange
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:32:19 PM
Reply

There are definitely some people who view RPGs as a chore and won't go near them just as there are those who don't find a shooter stimulating enough.

Are we to sit back and start discriminating now? Are we fooling ourselves into thinking that these two game genres are somehow polar opposites? As if somehow people who play Risk are more intelligent than those who play Jenga?

No. The type of game you play doesn't make you smarter than someone else. It only shows what you enjoy doing for entertainment. And sometimes, it's both.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:51:53 PM

The issue I have is in companies that want to wrench the two genres together (ahem Square Enix) and in so doing destroy their games which should have been squarely in a particular camp.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:59:37 PM

I don't think it's about labeling an entire genre so much as asking the question about which intellectual stream is more likely to be drawn to which genre.

There are certainly dumb RPG'ers and smart shooters, but if you did a large case study of say a few thousand randomly selected individuals, would you find a coefficient between their overall group intelligence and the genre they are drawn to?

The other problem that we'll find at this website, of course, is the fact that most posters here are typically pretty intelligent individuals. Most unintelligent gamers won't spend time on forums and comment boards, let alone read Ben's entire article.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/21/2010 11:00:59 PM

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NoSmokingBandit
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 8:26:42 AM

"No. The type of game you play doesn't make you smarter than someone else. "

I think Ben is asking quite the opposite; if your intelligence draws you to different genres, not games molding one's intelligence.

I think its somewhat fair toe say that less intelligent people arent going to enjoy an RPG and are consequently less likely to play one. Even if someone less intelligent loves RPGs, they arent going to be very good, much like strategy and puzzle games (actual puzzle games, not Super Collapse).

So if someone finds they are terrible at a certain genre they are more likely to just play something else instead. Shooters would be an easy choice because theres not much penalty if you die, so improperly analyzing a situation only puts you back 2 minutes instead of losing 30+ minutes since the last save point in an RPG.

Thats not to say smarter people wont like shooters. I know after a long day of tests and exams at school i'd enjoy going home and mindlessly blowing the hell out of some aliens just to unwind.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:40:07 PM
Reply

Based on my personal experience with many a low-IQ having friend and acquaintance, yes the unintelligent really gravitate toward shooters because there is a simple learning curve: the controls are either all the same or similar, there is little to think about, the story is simple, and the action is constant.

RPGs take time, patience, thought, and strategical skills. Again it is just my person experience, but the RPG players tend to be on the brighter side.

I fancy myself a rounded individual, so I play most genres, but it's rather obvious that the shooter crowd (and to a great extent the 360 crowd) can't hang with anything beyond a certain complexity.

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BikerSaint
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:48:32 PM
Reply

Highlander, Yup, totally agree with you.
One of my two bots gave me a two day live code, so I'd play some co-op Gears 2.
Now, I've never really got the chance to play the SP mode in Gears 1 or 2 yet, so I'm fairly new to the game.

But we had our mics on & he went on & on & on about thegame, & trying to show me where every little hidden prize was located. He also told me he plays Gears 2 every single day so he knows it by heart.

I finally had enough & told him to STFU about all the spoilers, so I could enjoy find everything on my own.

BTW, this is the same bot that tells everyone at work(whether they're a gamer or not)that he's on a mission to be the #1 shooter in the world & that his ranking is 36 thousand something. All my bot ever does plays is shooters and although he's in his 30's, he act's like a 11 year old juvenile with ADD.

Must be something with those electronic brain-wave pulses the 360 sends out to it's bots.
Thank goodness that can NEVER happen to me cause whenever I play my 360, my tin-foil helmet repels ALL company, & minion bot, bullsh*t.


Last edited by BikerSaint on 7/21/2010 10:54:47 PM

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:53:31 PM

Welcome to the tinfoil hat brigade :)

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Swim_Irr
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:46:58 PM

Einstein had ADD

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Highlander
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 8:18:29 PM

@swim_Irr

So do I - proper diagnosis and everything.

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Swim_Irr
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 1:30:12 PM

:) As do I

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Underdog15
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:48:50 PM
Reply

I'm glad that we've recognized that, as is with everything else in the world, we cannot stereotype such a broad fan base with the same stroke, but I think it's fairly obvious that a persons cognitive disposition would gravitate them towards a specific form of entertainment.

I have one friend, for example, (the same I referred to in that old FFXIII review who admitted to being a twitch-gamer) that absolutely hates waiting around and reading. He hates long cut scenes, and just wants to mash buttons. He's actually pretty bright, but I think his scholastic nature can be called into question. He did drop out of high school at one point (has finished and is registered for college), but he's well behind in his essay writing and problem solving skills.

He's very bright and well rounded though! And when it comes to every day life, he has common sense and he has certainly taught me a thing or two in life as well!

With that being said, I don't think it's intelligence, but is probably more directed towards one's academic inclination. I enjoy reading, writing, and I'm a fan of the arts! (Didn't major one of my major's in theatre for nothing!) Because I'm the type of person to be drawn to human emotion before flare and instant media gratification, I'm more inclined to like RPG's before shooters.

It's a complicated subject, to be sure. And I feel there is probably more evidence to support your suggestion, Ben. But as a psych major, I'm sure you understand there are probably a large number of variables to consider before exploring this thesis further.

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Underdog15
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:56:45 PM

FYI I was referring to Ben's Psych major

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:53:26 AM

Oh, I understand. I just don't have the time. That's why I let you guys philosophize. :)

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Highlander
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:21:58 AM

It's what we do best Ben.

:P

Oh, wait, I am suddenly reminded of History of The World Part 1 and what they called a stand-up philosopher...

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BikerSaint
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:20:01 PM

Swim_ Irr,


At least Einstein & Highlander outgrow bouncing off the walls, LOL.
Come to think about, I might have been a little ADD too, I was quite the super-hyper little speed demon who always got bored fast so I almost always never finished much of anything back then.

But....way back in the day(1950's), nobody actually knew what it was, or a name & diagnosis for it.
All the grownup's would just shake their heads & either say.....
"Darn, that kid's got ants in his pants",
or.....
"Look at him, he's got a bad case of the Saint Vitus Dance" LOL

Anyway, back to my bot, he's in his late 30's, and his brain really needs one of those choke-hold collared leashes just so his gray matter isn't permanently damaged being in that 24/7 FPS mode.


Last edited by BikerSaint on 7/22/2010 10:23:23 PM

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Highlander
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:30:08 AM

I finally got my diagnosis when I was in my late 30's. It wasn't until my career progressed to the point where I was having to work on long term projects that do not hold my interest and require lots of non-interactive paper work and far less face-time with actual people. I found that especially in meeting where I was not 'engaged' in the topic, or involved, I would lose focus and drift off completely into another zone, or fall asleep. Not a career enhancing thing. But even then it was only while researching ADD for my stepson (he is severely ADD in addition to being on the autistic spectrum) that I realized that many of the indicators fit me. So I went to a psychologist and after some discussions I was tested. If ever someone tells you that they are ADD, but they have never been tested by a psychologist, they are lying. They *could* be ADD, but without the diagnostic tests they could just as easily have a caffeine problem. The tests are pretty exhaustive.

Things are better now - when I have my medication. Most people think it's something that only kids have and they grow out of (it's not and they don't). The worst thing for me is that before I was diagnosed I didn't know the difference. But since diagnosis and medication, I can tell the difference between having the medicinal support and not. Without the appropriate medicine, I can't focus on the things I should, I can't concentrate for long on any one thing, I get gradually more anxious and snappy as I begin to procrastinate about things and they start piling up, waiting for me. The feeling of knowing that there are lots of things I should have done, and have not done, but still have to do before they are late is a form of stress that is particularly debilitating. That's how it was before diagnosis, I just didn't know any better then.

If you or anyone else thinks that they may truly be ADD (and not just scattered) I would urge you to go talk to your doctor.

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Fane1024
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:51:01 PM
Reply

I've never found console RPGs particularly taxing, not even Strategy RPGs (which are, not surprisingly, the most demanding in terms of strategic thinking). Certainly not to the same degree as well-made puzzle games.

I guess I'm just super smart. ;)

I would agree that games which emphasize careful thought over reflexes are more likely to attract intelligent people.

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gangan19
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 10:58:33 PM
Reply

I don't think so, some people can play a quick shooter game for like and hour or two to kill time or if you feel like shooting things but for like RPG's, when i play them I'm in there for like 6 or even more hours cause of so much things it have to offer. I think it's whatever people like, you don't have to be smart. Just know how to read proper and your pretty much ok with any game. If you enjoy playing with someone if their smart or stupid, intelligence won't matter.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:02:06 PM

I'm similar to you, I can play a good FPS for an hour or two but after that it's like blah. But a good RPG has so much more to it that it can hold my attention. Maybe it has to do with attention span, something most people lack these days.

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gangan19
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:31:16 AM

My whole hole family have short attention spans lol.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:03:56 PM
Reply

There are definitely a lot of variables, but let's face it The Twitter (twitcher) Generation isn't known for its book smarts.

Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 7/21/2010 11:04:05 PM

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:51:12 PM

And that alone doesn't help against the anti-video game agenda.

Last edited by maxpontiac on 7/21/2010 11:51:59 PM

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Qubex
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:45:11 AM

Lol World... so true... I have niether Twitshit nor FaceHugger...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Luiscosmo2
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:06:10 PM
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Ummm.....Each Genre has there own tactic/strategy so its diffrent kind of strayegy...So this is irrevelant but it does put some thought...

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CHAOS THEORY X
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:06:50 PM
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Not sure how to answer...I myself have a 4.0 in college (junior year :D) and I love RPGs and are quite good at the strategy and puzzles (God I love puzzles). However, I do enjoy shooters, but I find myself lagging behind in the reflexes area, and my friends are better than me (who I can say are not really too bright). I enjoy sports, and am fit to play them, but sports video games are very boring and I am HORRIBLE at them.
That said it seems it would be correct to say more intelligent people enjoy RPGs and are more "strategic", but one conflicting issue would be RTS games, such as the Starcraft II Beta ive been playing. This game is all about strategy, yet I've noticed how I learn slowly and constantly end up at the bottom of the ladder(ranking). Although I do have a friend who when we play 2v2 carries me and practically wins it for us. He can barely scrape a C in class. Therefore, contrasting the idea of personal intelligence= strategy.

Last edited by CHAOS THEORY X on 7/21/2010 11:10:15 PM

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nogoat23
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:24:25 PM

I'm with you. I'd rather go play sports than sports video games.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:18:29 PM

Me too. But when no one else is around to play sports with you, you have simulation! lol. I don't play sports games too often, but when I do, it's usually when I'm on a high of that particular sport. For example, with world cup soccer going, playing a couple matches at the start of the season here in my city, and everyone talking about soccer, I craved more of it. So... at 11pm, I pick up a FIFA game to satisfy the craving!

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dkmrules
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:08:57 PM
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IMO im pretty smart, and I think the most intelligent people are the ones that can appreciate any and and all games. (And hot tub time machine was actually kinda funny!)

Last edited by dkmrules on 7/21/2010 11:09:34 PM

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DeathOfChaos
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:16:59 PM
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I believe there are different areas of intelligence. It's like being a master at bio chemistry and saying someone who's a master at nano technology is stupid because they don't mess with biological stuff and vice versa. It all depends on what side of the spectrum you're talking about here, lol. RPG's require a lot of thought on what you should do next and where you should go. An FPS is more dependent on knowing what to do at that split second; sure, you can run around for hours, but what are you going to do when you run past an enemy?
I'm not gonna lie, I DESPISE FPS games because it's almost all the games coming out now days, and because of that, it's left the genre dry and saturated. Nothing can make me like the FPS genere ever again. I love RPG's, but if that happened with RPG games, I'd be pissed at that genre too. They need more of them, actually, lol.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:06:32 AM

I'm fairly sure that if a general IQ, statistical study was performed, the average IQ for "shooter fans" would most likely be lower than, say, "RPG fans", only because the former group would be a much larger sample, having more people of average and below average IQ's, and that the latter group, being a more selective one, would least likely reflect the average individual.

That being said, I agree with Qubex and DeathOfChaos. IQ is a very difficult thing to measure, which is multifaceted, and not static. A nongamer might view a gamer, for example, as a person who wiles away his/her time pointlessly, accomplishing nothing. But a gamer, or a person in the industry of making games, knows fully well that there is a tremendous amount of problem-solving, observation, and learning in the activity of gaming. Personally, I think although the kind of games a person plays may not be a direct reflection of a person's IQ, it's undeniable that a person's interests are a reflection of something.

For example, RPG's typically require more managment skills, abstract problem-solving, more imagination, and perhaps more intellectual abilities like reading or following a story, characters, and memory of events. Shooters and racers require more core faculties, like basic, temporal, spatial ones, being less "intellectual", but definitely requiring cerebral activity, nonetheless, especially if one hopes to perform well. The LBP community, perhaps may show additional facets of intelligence, like creativity, that simply aren't a requirement in other genres. And just to throw another monkey wrench into the problem, what about games that are a mix of genres, like Fallout 3, Borderlands, FFxiii, or Demon's Souls?

So about the IQ question, I, too, would have to give a non-answer. But if you were to ask me, if RPG fans, on average, demonstrate more intellectual and abstract understandings in their favorite hobby than say an average MW2 fan does, I would answer with a definitive "yes".

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Qubex
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:47:59 AM

Shams, you make some good points mate!

There is a tremendous amount of problem solving and creative adaptability needed to push the boundaries of creating moving pixel art... it is not easy... look at the technologies and monies needed to make a decent AAA game...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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WorldEndsWithMe
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:26:53 PM
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Hmmm, so what are we to make of the fact that RPG makers want to slaughter their games and make them for the twitch crowd? Because I always kind of saw it as pandering to the idiots. (Sorry if that makes me a gaming bigot)

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:55:26 PM

And that, is the million dollar question...

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maxpontiac
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:44:16 PM
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For me personally, it all comes down to one thing and one thing alone.

The mood I am in.

Sometimes I feel like shooting people online in MAG for example. Other instances, I enjoy playing games like Heavy Rain and Dragon Age.

It all comes down to me being the same person. I will meticulously design your home all the same regardless if I was "killing" other players online, or involved in some deep conversation about choices the night before.

Last edited by maxpontiac on 7/21/2010 11:44:48 PM

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Oyashiro
Wednesday, July 21, 2010 @ 11:51:42 PM
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I believe both camps have there fair share of idiots. But from experience, I find that most people of higher IQ often prefer RPG and RTS games to FPS.

Doesn't mean some can't like both though.

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booze925
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:03:07 AM
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shooters require thinking as much as any other game genre on the market. in games like bad company 2, careful planning, teamwork, and execution are vital to your teams victory. you often get those random idiots who think they're john rambo and try to take on the entire russian army on their own, or those pussies who stay behind friendly lines and snipe.
all genres have their idiots.

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kraygen
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:47:03 AM

So sniping doesn't have any strategic possibilities or tactical advantages? Then why are there snipers in the first place. In the military snipers save lives and I doubt any of them would ever be referred to in that manner by their comrades.

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booze925
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:59:31 AM

not when more then half your team does it.
but thats not the point dude.

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BigBoss4ever
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:23:23 AM
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FPS = no brainer; RPG = Einsteins

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shadowscorpio
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:30:13 AM
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I personally prefer a deep, well written RPG over a fast paced, twitch game shooter.

As many have stated, this is a question that is difficult to answer because you do have to consider all the factors that go into it. First we have to define 'smart' and 'intellegent'. By definition are the same? Are they similar but slighly different? Are they totally seperate?

Rpg's stimulate and ingage certain parts of the mind and so do shooters . If we don't have a solid base as to what smart and intellegent are pertaining to gaming/gamers, I don't know that this question can accurately be answered. And this is only one of the things to consider. I think all we can go by is what we have experienced in our life time of gaming. Personally I have found more dimwits come from those who like to play shooter rather than those who enjoy RPGs but who knows the facts for certain?

Nice question Ben. Definately makes one think.

Last edited by shadowscorpio on 7/22/2010 12:31:12 AM

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booze925
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:05:36 AM
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btw i played heavy rain for the first time. ive never felt that much tension in a game ever before. absolutely amazing.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:38:30 AM

me either, it turned my muscles into knots sometimes.

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:26:15 AM
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Simply too many factors, I to have pondered this many a time, the answer truly is unanswerable. You can't judge a whole genre with all it's millions of potential players based off a person or couple people you know. Every and any exception make an overgeneralization. Just my two cents.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:59:45 PM

It's not about absolutes. It's about percentages. What level of intellect are more likely to be drawn to which genre? We all know and every one of us agrees there is no absolute here. Even if it were high enough to claim an absolute, there are always exceptions to every rule. We all agree on that and what you say now.

But this article is about chance and likelihood. I think if you bear in mind that this article refers to the mere likelihood of a particular person being drawn to a particular style of game, it's actually a viable discussion to have.

Doesn't it make sense that a more well read person is more likely to enjoy something with lots of reading? Perhaps it's more of a correlation with academia than it is with base intelligence.

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kraygen
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:56:13 AM
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This is how I see it. I don't think it would ever be realistic or fair to judge someone by the type of games they play. Anyone of just about any intelligence level could play any genre they so choose.

However I do think it's fair to assume that the percentage of lower intelligence ppl is higher among shooters than among rpgs.

Simply for the fact that you can't get online and play a shooter without finding someone who only knows four letter words about your mother. However I've rarely seen an rpg discussion with anywhere near that amount of rude, disrespectful, and vulgar behavior.

So while you can't judge someone on their gaming likes and dislikes, you can get a pretty good idea of what kind of ppl you will mostly find in a particular genre.

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Scarecrow
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:29:04 AM
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Let's put it like this, if you're not smart you won't play rpgs, period.

It's more likely to find dumb people playing shooters than rpgs.

Those who are smart experience it all and can freely pick up any kind of game and are more likely to venture into the rpg genre.

I knew the Japanese were the smartest of them all!

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Bjorn77
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:54:34 AM

I have a University degree, but I hate RPG's. So there goes your assumption....

RPG is the only genre I truly hate. Why? because the majority of rpg's are slow paced games. I like fast paced games with a lot of action.

Or maybe I am wrong and accidentally always played the slow paced RPG....

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nogoat23
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:36:09 PM

@Bjorn77 What is your degree in, if you don't mind me asking?

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:15:21 PM

If the assumption was 'all rpg players are smart, and all shooter fans are dumb', you'd be right, Bjorn. But the 'more likely' clause keeps the discussion completely wide open until proven otherwise by a clinical study. :p

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faraga
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:57:19 AM
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Before I comment on this article: Why do people watch foreign movies w/out subtitles (so they'll have to listen to voice-overs)? Voice-overs are usually crappy, not lip-synced and ruin the original film. Where I live (Netherlands) all movies, except the kiddie ones for children who can't read fast enough yet, are subtitled.

Back on topic. I like to play shooters, but I don't consider myself to be stupid. I do, however, encounter a lot of people using a lot of four-letter words and very few people who actually respond in a mature way when I say something to them.

I don't really like RPG's as they usually tend to be fantasy-themed, which I'm not into. The most fantasy-ish game I own is Ghostbusters.

Also, you say that (not per se by your own opinion) stupid people listen to metal. This is untrue as it is proven that metal is usually listened to by the more intelligent people.

This is just my opinion, it's up to you to disagree, but I don't like RPG's.

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Highlander
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:17:42 AM

Regarding foreign movies. I personally think that the subtitled experience is far and away superior to the dubbed - unless the dubbing was done *extremely* well, but a cast of voice actors who are both talented actors *and* talented voice actors - the two skills are not the same.

If given the choice, I generally prefer to watch a movie with subtitles because I feel like the original actor gives the most authentic performance and the feeling and emotion of the scene is captured in the actor's voice, tone, timbre, etc... Even with a good dubbing, a lot of that can be lost.

I remember watching Das Boot the first time with subtitles and being drawn right in and carried along by the amazing story and emotion. I later saw it with an English dubbed sound track and it had lost *all* of the potency.

Oddly enough, I lik playing RPGs with the Japanese soundtrack on my second play through, but on the first I prefer English - unless the Voice cast are completely crap. Of course there are a number of VA voices I recognize and appreciate now, so perhaps that explains my greater tolerance for the dubbing in games? Or perhaps it's the fact that the localization often subtly alters the dialog to better fit the English presentation?

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WolfCrimson
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:03:59 AM
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My answer would be that they're not related. A person's intelligence and their preference in games aren't related. You could have a really smart person playing shooters and a not-so-smart person playing an RPG. You feel there are generally more not-so-smart people playing shooters, but that's because it's a "trend" to play shooters with your friends (multiplayer), so alot more people (smart and not-so-smart) play, AND the fact that you get to actually interact with people in shooters (mic), as opposed to none at all in RPGs, you'd feel as if you have a representative sample of shooter fans, while in reality you don't.

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Banky A
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:00:21 AM
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No, most of the smartest people I study with (we're still young FYI) love to play shooters and COD 90% of the time.

I know some retards/gumps I used to be mates with who play Final Fantasy and all those computer strategies.

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dlte
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:24:23 AM
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I dunno, I don't really like using RPGs in shooters............

Last edited by dlte on 7/22/2010 4:25:10 AM

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:55:24 PM

hehe! clever! ^.^

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SmokeyPSD
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:28:00 AM
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I have found that people who play predominantly shooters seem to have short attention spans, and that seems be prominent in other areas of their life aswell. when they were in high school their schoolwork. Films, music, reading books, everything. I'm not generalising, this is my observations of my interactions of people I've met, so it's true for me.

Not saying that everyone who is into shooters is like that, but just about everyone I know personally who majority of their games is made up of shooters, are like that.

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Bjorn77
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:43:29 AM
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I really think that most of the people play diverse sort of games. It is like music in a way. Do people have a certain genre they like more? Yes probably. But do they constantly play music of that genre? Probably not.

I really like Hack and slash games, but my collection also has a lot of modern adventure and I also own a few shooters.

imo the key word is diversity. If your brain can process and analyse all kind of information quickly then the more likely you play a wide diversity of games because it takes no real effort and comes naturally.

Last edited by Bjorn77 on 7/22/2010 4:44:08 AM

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Kiryu
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:58:02 AM
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I play games like Yakuza series which is a action adventure/RPG game and Heavy Rain.

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Kangasfwa
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 5:27:15 AM
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A good shooter makes the player think.

In a good shooter, I have to consider the guns I carry (especially with the two gun load-out). In Killzone 1 for example, do I stick with my ISA rifle with grenade launcher or do I pick up the Helghast rifle with the shotgun attachment? The ISA rifle will more than likely have a limited ammo supply of both bullets and (especially) grenades. The Helghast rifle will more than likely provide me all the ammo I could need. I can take out enemies from afar with the ISA rifle, but I could be in trouble if I stumble into an pack of goons since the grenades could kill me too. Which do I choose?

The dunce looks at a shooter and thinks all he has to do is move the reticule to the right spot and pull the trigger. These are the stereotype shooters of today's games and these are the ones the dunces enjoy. In the shooters I enjoy, I need to be careful, even on the normal modes. If I don't pay attention to the level layout or make a poor choice of arms, there's a good chance I'll get my ass kicked.

There are shooters made for stupid gamers who have no motivation to develop real skill and then there are shooters built to force the player to build a solid strategy. There's a big difference between Call of Duty and SOCOM or hack-and-slash and turn-based RPGs. Ben's question relies too much on generalizations of two deep genres to provide any kind of fair answer, to either side.

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mackid1993
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 5:57:39 AM
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I play shooters, despise RPG's and I have a 3.95 GPA. I think you can be smart and enjoy shooters too. Online shooters call for quick thinking and making tactical decisions to outsmart your enemies. There are tons of morons on FPS games, but not all of us are.

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:02:58 AM

Then again GPA isn't a total deciding factor of intelligence.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:42:57 PM

I'm gonna assume that's on a 4 point scale. lol I went to one university that used a 12 point scale. 3.95 would be the equivalent of a D+ (or 59%).

And actually, Natalisrubbish, anytime (assuming this is university he's talking about), anyone who can achieve a near 4.0 is probably pretty intelligent. In high school, mere hard work can get you an 'A' no problem, but in university, you need to be able to apply and problem solve with the knowledge you've learned. In other words, knowledge isn't enough. You must also have wisdom.

There's a reason so many doors open up to people with degrees whether they work in their field of study or not. A degree tells an employer that the individual has problem solving skills at a more organizational level.

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dlte
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:08:22 PM

i think a high gpa is a better example of good work ethic. although intelligence is obviously part of it.

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frostface
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 6:08:32 AM
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I don't think you can really type cast people because of taste. I'm pretty street smart, wouldn't call myself sometimes the sharpest chip off the old block but far from the dullest. I used to perform as a rapper (Just that you mentioned rap music at the start)...yet my taste in music would be quite diverse and I would consider Opera and Classical music to be almost essential listening. Also, like yourself Ben, I really do enjoy a good book.
Anyone who's played any shooters online with me will tell ya I'm terrible and I'll freely admit to that. Give me an RPG though, even the hardest of them, and I'll kick ass in no time, and this is a genre I'm relatively new at. Most of the games I play would be puzzle games, RPGs, tower defence and yeah I do play shooters but like I already said I suck.
In general I don't usually judge what kinda person someone is based on their preferred media to entertain themselves. In general I don't like stereotype casting people because the area I'm from in Dublin gets stereotyped as a pretty rough part of the city, yet you won't meet a nicer bunch of people and crime in general would be a lot less than we get credit for.
I don't want to stray off topic, my point is people will surprise the hell out of ya. You can take a look at a person and think you know them from how they look, the music they listen to, the games they play etc... only for them to surprise the hell out of ya and change your whole perception of that type of person.
Not all people who play shooters are dunces, nor those who play RPG are Einstein. Different people break down information and problem solve in different ways and someone who may enjoy RPG's may suck at shooters and vice versa.

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ptt1982
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 6:48:04 AM
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I'm a psychologist and while studying my major, I always read a lot of game-related studies and researches. This topic is very deep and involving, thus haven't been properly researched yet.

As a question it's most interesting. I would say, that people who actually "like" or "respect" certain games, would have some sort of open-mindedness towards other cultures, languages and intelligence (or knowledge) in general. But did one's intelligence grow because one had potential to become intelligent and the brain was stimulated by political stories (Final Fantasy Tactics, PSX) or genius level design and pure fun puzzles and platforming (3D Zelda/Mario titles for example). It's hard to say which way around it is.

But I do believe that there are lot of intelligent people, just like people who watch movies with essence and real meaning, instead of movies filled with just blowing up stuff and bad one-liners, do play "intelligent" games. But then again, why couldn't a PhD in neurology be able to watch a silly action movie just to turn his brain off? Why wouldn't he be able to play a silly FPS as well then because of the same reason? Just to note, I don't think all FPS are silly, there are plenty of them that I like, such as System Shock and Deus Ex.

I myself am a fan of JRPGs and Story-oriented action games like MGS, but also play games that are simple at core, but complicated to make work well, like Mario Galaxy 1-2. Of course I get more out of story-oriented games philosophically and psychologically, and it can open up my thinking and raise questions. Also, sometimes I believe video games can be pure art, like Braid, Limbo, ICO, Shadow Of Colossus etc.

Video games seem to show cultural vibes in certain countries, trends so to speak (Persona series etc.).

However, I do not think it is a pure consequence that West and especially American games are FPS and about war, or lack of a better word, "gun or shooting"-related. It is American everyday life to be around guns and watch news about wars on tv and talk about war in a distant land. I believe these experiences open up the imagination of designers in USA to try and replicate that reality while adding the "fantastic" fantasy in order to keep it like a game. What strikes me, is that as USA is a very political country, there are no games about politics as in Japan and Korea.

Perhaps in the future neurologists, AI researchers, psychologists and psychiatrists can do game-related researches that include factors such as culture-related issues/questions, trends, sub-culture vs pop-culture, political views/issues/trends etc. in gaming related researches.

Unfortunately, the media is bashing games a lot. Imagine if there were researches saying "watching movies will make you do/be XYZ". We are past that now, so we need to blame always someone, it's basic nature to try and find reasons for unreasonable acts (such as gaming related violence). Rationalize irrational things, so to speak.

I'm absolutely sure though, that there is a stereotypical gamer, as there are stereotypical movie watchers. This stereotype could be anything. Maybe someday we find out, but because games are so international and filled with cultural trends and so on, it's hard to find where, when and what is a stereotypical gamer in that particular time.

I do believe though, that RPG players are a bit different than shooter playing people, just because of the sheer amount of dialog and text they have to read. But I also belive that there are unintelligent RPGs and Intelligent shooters, so drawing the line can be difficult as it is quite blurry.

What do you guys think?



Last edited by ptt1982 on 7/22/2010 6:55:07 AM

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SmokeyPSD
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:58:33 AM

I think ur reply is the best out of EVERYONES, and hit the nail on the head. You also just struck an important issue here. Western gamers often get cropped into ONE group of gamers, but the fact is, I'm australian.

Guns DON'T play an important part in my everyday life, and I'm absolutely SICK of all the games on the market involving guns and fps's, which while I used to play (10 freaking years ago regularly), used to not mind the genre, I've grown tired and war weary of (to use the best term I could think of).

I would much rather be playing a persona instalment, than all the crap which is being regurgitated on the market for the past 15 years.

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Highlander
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:53:19 AM

Guns don't play a big part of daily life in the UK, they have some of the stricter gun laws in the western world, and yet shooters are very popular there, so I'm not sure that you can generalize about the prevalence of 'gun culture' so to speak, being a factor in the success of fps games.

Culturally, the US is a more violent culture (IMHO). Having moved here from the UK a decade or so ago, my experience has been that entertainment in general in the US is more violent than elsewhere. The UK is catching up as more and more American TV and cultural influences drive change to the popular culture of the UK. This has more to do with the popularity of shooters, especially in the US and UK markets.

People see action on screen all the time, lots of gun play, lots of fighting, aggression. Sometimes people accuse games of pushing our culture, I think that to some extent the popularity of shooter and other action games in the US and UK markets in particular is driven by the mood of popular culture in general. there is a feedback loop in that as popular culture drives more action games 9and action movies/TV) the appetite for this form of entertainment grows, increasing demand. And supply will always grow to meet demand...the cycle perpetuates.

This has nothing to do with intelligence though. I agree with something someone else said about the learning curve of games. Shooters typically have a fairly shallow initial learning curve. You can pick up and play. RPGs typically have systems you have to learn and therefore have a steeper initial learning curve. Perhaps it's that initial learning curve that weeds out some players?

Whatever the case, people's taste for a game is not driven by their IQ.

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Shadow_Striker
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 7:50:22 AM
Reply

I think that the intelligence of both groups are generally equal and one thing that we have to remember is that in basically every fps there is an online component. This is important because that minority of retards and psychos can get on a mic and act like they they are top stuff and hoot and holler. On the other hand RPG's don't usually have an online component so we don't hear that minority nearly as much.

The other point to make is the volume of gamers. A lot more people are playing shooters then RPG's now so even if the number of unintelligent gamers who played both genres was 5% you could say more unintelligent people play shooters then rpg's because of the larger market share shooters hold..... I hope that this makes some sort of sense since i just got off back shift. If someone knows what I'm talking about and can word it better please do.

.... I have had this account for a while and never post...... i think i might be one of those twitch gamer since i can't concentrate on any..... oooo hey a nickle

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Qubex
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:50:14 AM

....equal at variable levels though... I think there are large gaps in intellectual prowess... just walk the streets... all will be revealed to the intelligent observer...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:04:37 AM

I agree. FPS gamers may show a lower measured, average IQ, only because they are a much larger sample, and therefore more likely to reflect the average IQ.

RPG and RTS gamers may show a higher, measured, statistical average, only because it is a smaller group, having a greater chance of filtering people of particular types, and showing peculiarities, and less likely to reflect the average individual.

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Snaaaake
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 8:05:08 AM
Reply

I guess I'm in the middle because I don't like anything that's too complicated or too simple.

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Him
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 8:50:34 AM
Reply

Honestly ,i've never come across a game that has pushed my intelligence at all.

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nogoat23
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:57:06 PM

Try Ratchet and Clank: A Crack in Time. The optional Clank puzzles are awesome.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:21:00 PM

Definitely. I've gone through them 3 times over, and I still love them. They make you think recursively, and since they are at least a couple slightly different ways of doing the more complex ones, they remain fresh. One of the big reasons why I love that game.

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Phoelix
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:13:25 AM
Reply

Essentially, in my belief, "no." This is one hell of a slippery slope imo. I could construe almost anything as "for the less-than-intelligent."

I have read classical (Japanese) literature, and I find nearly all of it to be mindless dribble. In all seriousness, I think Dan Brown is a better writer than a whole lot of classic authors (and I'm NOT saying that I believe Dan Brown is an excellent writer).

I am also a fan of a lot of heavy metal bands. Surprise surprise, a nontrivial amount of them include mature themes in their music (i.e. Iron Maiden has written a whole lot of songs in response to classic literature).

Games don't test your intelligence any more than reading the morning paper does. They DO, however, force you to do some mental aerobics and exercise your problem solving skills.

There may or may not be a strong correlation, but I refuse to assume there is.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:10:25 AM

The difference between people who read the paper, and game-genre fans, is that of course, the latter group is a much more narrow selection, and has a greater chance of "filtering" people of a particular type, or of showing statistical anomalies that may not show up in a larger demographic or survey sample.

But, if you were to compare the average of measurable, general, IQ of the people who read the paper/internet news, and people who can't read (ignoring a 3rd group of people who can read but don't read the news, just for simplicity of discussion), you would most likely find that people who do read have a higher, measured IQ simply because they're literate. That is not to say that there aren't any prodigies or geniuses that are illiterate adults, nor that impoverished people will not show higher illiteracy, as well, but exceptions aside, of course, if people are filtered by skill, intelligence will be reflected by that to some extent, whether it be an environment effect, or an inherent, genetic one.

Similarly, in the highest ranks of the MW2 community, you may find a higher, modal, minimum IQ than the modal, minimum IQ of the entire MW2 community. Likewise, you may find that the active LBP community may show a higher modal and average IQ's than the MW2 community's, only because the active LBP community is a much smaller, filtered, bunch.



Last edited by Shams on 7/22/2010 10:13:26 AM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:15:57 AM

If you think Dan Brown is a great writer, you haven't read any real classical literature. Period.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:47:24 PM

Dan Brown is not a great writer. He's a conspiracy theorist with porous logic with no ability to accurately detail the human condition or emotion. He's nothing near a good classical writer.

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:07:21 PM

@ underdog
Yep his logic sure did make him unsuccesful didn't it???? Lololol.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:25:28 PM

It's popular because it's an easy read, and it gives the uneducated a reason to discredit religion whether it's a viable reason or not. Cult followers don't care about reason.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:21:38 PM

So... by your logic, Natalisrubbish... the author of the Twilight Series is a brilliant author as well? And among the classical greats?

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Phoelix
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:42:19 PM

Well, this argument can and will spiral directly into the good ol' "quality" debate that rears its ugly head on occasion.

There is no stick with which to measure any work of art as good/bad/better/worse. We only have our personal opinions.

Thus, "classic" literature is what it is because a whole lot of people (esp. in the academic field) think it's great and has a lot to say about [pick a literary topic].

You may not be implying this, Ben, but I perceive from this and past editorials that you think "twitch gamers" are dumb, right? If that's the case, isn't Heavy Rain a twitch game?

Flatly, I don't think editorials about twitch gamers (if not this article, definitely some past ones) foster an inclusive gaming community.

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WolfCrimson
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:32:44 AM
Reply

I wanna know; what do most people mean by 'smart' or 'intelligent'? Personally I think we are all 'intelligent' because we as human beings have that ability to comprehend and analyze information, so our entire species is intelligent. Everybody has the ability to comprehend and analyze, it's just a matter of putting in effort in using our brains.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:36:54 AM

Yes, it's the same question, really.

"Perceived IQ" is commonly opined on observable traits, like "books smarts", test scores, college/university name, speech habits, and even superficial, status symbols (such as salary bracket, type of house, car, and so on). For example, a good mechanic may use just as much intelligence, maybe even more, than a good doctor, but he will rarely be perceived as so.

In truth, all people are more similar to each other than different, in terms of IQ, but if we filtered people by traits such as skills and interests, it may account for some minute differences, though, perhaps not in the way that most people understand.

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Hezzron
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:39:28 AM
Reply

I think RPGs get too much credit for being "cerebral". Some RPGs (especially JRPGs) have insulted my intelligence with atrocious dialogue and mindless, repetitive trekking in order to artificially lengthen the game.

Shooters are often too easily labeled as dumb. There is a good amount of intelligence that goes into playing a shooter, unless you're inclined to mow through them on "easy". The online aspect especially requires wit and skill in order to outsmart your fellow gamers.

Taking those two adjustments in mind, I'd say they line up equally in the middle somewhere.

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SmokeyPSD
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:50:55 AM

I have still yet to play a shooter which has actually engaged me on a emotional or thoughtprovoking level as a RPG has however.

There's a difference between intelligent gameplay, and engagement of sheer thought. There's weak games in any genre so you can't really talk about the weak dialog, grinding rpgs as evidence that rpgs get too much credit for being cerebral.

By their nature, shooters involve shooting at their core.

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Kiri
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:54:21 AM

Don't forget... MMORPGs are also RPGs...
And last time i checked they didn't require much intelligence...

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Kiri
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:51:43 AM
Reply

Well... On the other hand... Some RPG lovers just press the skip button on the dialogue so they can go and slay the next beast as quickly as possible... And in a shooter one might have a whole battleplan thought out (It's improbable but not impossible)...

So i don't think it's the genre... But the way in which you play it that shows your intelligence...
:P

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:08:02 PM

It's not about absolutes. It's not about smart people play this, and dumb people play that. It's about the likelihood of a particular intellect to be drawn to a particular genre.

Percentages!

Every single one of us on this site agree that there is no concrete definition of a genre's correlation to it's gamer's intelligence! I think it's more likely that academia is the real correlation. Not intelligence. After all, it does make sense that a well read individual would enjoy something with lots of reading more than one who despises novels.

So ya... more about academia... not so much about intelligence.

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komotaya
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 9:53:31 AM
Reply

well idk but i kno im nowhere near slow stupid or dumb, and i love rpgs and am good at them but fps like killzone, im a beast in just as well

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robinhood2010
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:09:11 AM
Reply

I just want to add my opinion here.

I have a degree. My favourite games are RPGs. I do play shooters. In fact, I play all game types.

But 99% of my friends from uni all prefer RPGs. I would sit in lectures and play FFT:WotL on PSP with a girl who loved RPGs.

I now work part-time in GAME, whilst training to be a teacher, and the majority of people that come in are...of questionable intelligence. And the biggest selling game? CoD MW2.

To a certain extent, I think more academically intelligent individuals are more inclined to things that prompt a lot of thought, whereas others whos skills are in different areas lean towards more action orientated games. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Of course, that doesn't mean that is the case.
My retarded, idiot of a step-brother loves RPGs, and he is criminally stupid. But then again, he skips all cutscenes and dialogue....

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:12:34 AM
Reply

While FPS as a genere is getting on my nerves, I think everyone here needs to get off their ****ing high horse about thinking they are more intelligent for playing RPGs, I mean for christ's sake...really?

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:44:40 PM

I don't think Mr. J.C. or his sake has anything to do with this. And I think you miss the point of the article. It isn't about whether or not your more intelligent for playing them, it's about what are you more inclined to play based on your intelligence. It's about percentage. Not absolute values.

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:26:37 PM

I think you have a bit of a distaste for me and plan to follow me around the comment section from here on out, much like jawknee and I. I wasn't reffering to the article you smug prick, I was reffering to all the comments of seeming self importance and rpg='s higher intellect in general. (-:

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:24:13 PM

I don't have a distaste for you. And I didn't call you any names, either.

However, with the repeated name calling you are engaging in (that neither me or Jawk have done on this tread, by the way), I am beginning to develop a distaste for you. I hope that doesn't happen though. We've commented in peace and harmony up until now...

Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/22/2010 2:30:44 PM

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Jawknee
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:03:03 PM

Natal is the irony really lost on you? You accuse people of trolling but THAT'S ALL YOU DO!

I think its time you get lost hypocrite.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:12:09 PM

ok, NOW Jawk called you a name. but not before my prior post. lol. :p

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Jawknee
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:35:30 PM

I call it like it see it. He trolls me all the time then accuses me of being a troll. He trolled you then called you a prick.

Hes a hypocrite.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:52:41 PM

He's a meanie! *cries* I didn't call him a single name! *sniff*

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Jawknee
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:54:25 PM

Just ignore him. He seems to have some issue where he feels the need to pick childish fights with people on the internet.

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Qubex
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 10:52:35 AM
Reply

Here is a question... what IQ do you need to play Demon Souls?... it seems like a very challenging game...

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 7/22/2010 10:52:44 AM

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Bjorn77
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:06:53 AM

I really believe that if you wrote on the cover of your game "Only for people with an IQ over 120" then it would sell like crazy, because everybody wants to be smart.

It's like all those man whom buy the extra large condoms...

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:22:41 AM

Generally speaking, Americans of this generation are more turned off by problem-solving, and signs of high intelligence, or "nerdiness", than Europeans are, unless if it pays, of course.

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Bjorn77
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:34:54 AM

No, it is the truth. If you appeal to someones intelligence you can sell a person the biggest crap for the biggest price and he will thank you for it.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:06:14 PM

If you truly appeal to a persons intelligence, they'll see the crap for what it actually is.

That's why the salesmen stereotype has a particular negative connotation to it, because he's not suppose to do that, even if he may use partial reasoning to appeal to a customer's trust. His intentions are questionable, and hidden, and his primary concern, more often than not, is not to reveal the full truth, but to sell his "turd in a box" to anyone as something far more than just that, when in reality that is all it is.

And that leads me to the previous point. Most people, including Americans, value intelligence if it gets them something. But if absolute intelligence commanded to stop doing something we liked, most people would just ignore their intelligence.

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JPBooch
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:01:18 AM
Reply

Hmmm, I don't think there is any truth to lumping people into either. Why is it as a human race why try to categorize and put people with neat little labels? I just don't get it.

I have friends of varying degrees of IQ and their choices in games are just as varied. A friend of mine who is a Podiatrist and obviously not dumb, loves MK v. DC. He likes the strategy involved and the fighting isn't that complicated.

I myself, have an IQ of over 140 and I like all types of games. So does a good friend of mine who works for NASA as an astrobiologist. (yes, there is such a thing). Both of us have multiple hours and platinums in a myriad of FPS, TPS, Driving, fighting, and RPG games.



Last edited by JPBooch on 7/22/2010 11:04:18 AM

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:17:13 AM

It's only natural. For example, you're accessing people's IQ by their profession, and/or IQ score. You are perceiving an intangible thing as intelligence through that which can be observed. Even that criteria which one uses to judge other's IQ has some reflection of one's mind, or personality.

So saying that the argument does not have "any truth" to it might be a bit of stretch. But conjecturing that a stronger correlation may exist between IQ and profession than with IQ and gaming interests may very well be valid.

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Shams
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:09:37 PM

By "accessing" I meant "assessing".

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:13:12 PM

I'll say it again.

It's not about absolutes. It is not about which intellect plays which games. It's about percentages. Which person is MORE LIKELY to play which games. Every person on this site agrees that you can't paint an entire genre fan base with the same brush stroke. However, we can viably study the likelihood of one intellect to play a particular game over another.

It's probably more about academia than it is about intelligence. A well read person is far more likely to enjoy reading than one who despises novels.

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:47:25 PM

@underdog
We heard you, we hear your opinion, sheesh!

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SirLoin of Beef
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:24:43 AM
Reply

I personally like shooters that throw some kind of RPG element in them. The Mass Effect games are good examples, in my opinion. For all intents and purposes they're third-person shooters but have a decent story and such wrapped around it so there's a reason other than "ill pwn u" for doing what it is you're doing.

Heck, I play Oblivion and Fallout 3 in first-person mode so they're similar in many ways to FPS like Call of Duty and the like but they have a lot of RPG elements in as well.

I know I really didn't answer the question. I don't think there is a real definitive answer. Generally speaking, it might seem that shooter fans aren't as intelligent than those who play RPGs but it usually doesn't take too long to find more than one example that goes against the generalization.

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Abidan13
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:11:14 PM
Reply

This is by no means an easy question to answer. As it has been said, there are many factors that play into this including frequency of play. However, because of this I cannot give an answer but simply my experience.

I would say that I would fall into this stereotype. My passion is and always will be RPGs. I would also say I am quite intelligent in that I learn very quickly.

In high school, I spent more time playing RPGs than studying. However, I still obtained grades associated with Honours with Distinction (90% or higher; Canadian curriculum is different).

I think RPGs helped me think through problems and equations differently compared to most. I went to University and that was fun (mostly) and now I`m going to obtain a degree for game design. My theory is, if more people played video games I think we would live in a better place. That is why I want to create games that mix genres providing the depth and strategy of an RPG but some mechanics of a shooter.

Going back to the question, there is no answer. There is only a random occurrence of what games we like. I easily could have liked shooters but the first game put in my hand was Final Fantasy VII. Can games influence our intellect? Yes, but not necessarily in a positive direction. Too many conditions that need to be met.

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Qubex
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:20:56 PM

"There is only a random occurrence of what games we like"...

I don't know about that Abidan13. I know what I like, I buy what I like... but I am willing to try something new... I am willing to absorb, learn and expand my intellectual capabilities...

We never stop learning... even as gamers..

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

Last edited by Qubex on 7/22/2010 12:26:06 PM

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Abidan13
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:00:39 PM

I meant that had it been a different game put in my hands, things might have been different. I use the multiverse theory here. This was but one chance occurrence. It is possible that had a slight variation of an event occurred, a person may prefer a different genre.

This theory has many holes including the oh-so-popular circular argument: "I like it because I like it." Another such reason is liking them based upon a series of sub-reasons.

However, a multiverse would say that had something been different our personalities would be different.

I argue for argument's sake and now I am way off topic.

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CharlesD
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:19:09 PM
Reply

I think that people of all intelligence levels play all sorts of games. However, it seems likely it would be easier for a rather smart person to pick up a shooter here and there than a rather unintelligent person being able to pick up a more complicated game once and a while. Meaning, there are probably a larger number of people w. not quite as much wit on shooters and hack&slash games than in RPG's and in depth games. I doubt the numbers are vastly different and there's no doubt both types of minds play both types of games.

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RadioHeader
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:19:52 PM
Reply

am smat n i shootas pley!

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 12:50:10 PM
Reply

FYI- Einstein failed math in school.

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Dante399
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 1:40:10 PM
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You cannot assess intelligence by the interest of a person, but by measuring how s/he excels in it. And, to give it a holistic explanation.... a person is more intelligent than another if s/he excels in more interests than the other; Einstein excelled in math, physics,............. and philosophy, thus, he was more intelligent than -for example- a math teacher who excelled in math only.

@Ben: Dan Brown is more intelligent than other "classical writers" because he excels in mixing reality with fiction in a very controversial way and choosing the "right time" to advertise his books. And the evidence is his success. To succeed in this world you have to be either too dmn lucky or too dmn intelligent.

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Natalisrubbish
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:03:43 PM

Hear hear!

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:19:19 PM

lol ever looked at a "best sellers" list? It often includes chic-novels and 1/4 star titles. You cannot rate a person's ability to write based on their monetary success. Drivel is often the best selling in American society.

As for Dan Brown mixing reality, every author does that that isn't writing a fantasy novel. He is certainly not the first to take religious symbols and twist their meaning to match his own conspiracy theory (which, by the way, is incredibly porous). The only reason it became "controversial" was because people actually believed it to be a factual book and not a fictitious novel.

Similarly, the mere pursuit of happiness (money) is not the driving force of intelligence. There are plenty of people in the world that are absolutely brilliant that sacrifice monetary success for something they are passionate about.

I would argue that someone solely focused on the dollar sign lacks any understanding of the real virtues in life, and is therefore the biggest fool of all. Dan Brown is the perfect example of a man who has sold his soul for controversial and amateurish writing. He cannot relay the human condition in a believable way. He lacks the ability to write a driving dialogue worth quotation. He cannot string any more than 2 or 3 ideas together within his conspiracy theory without completely fabricating a major dependent fact. Every author mixes truth with fiction. That's what makes stories so believable.

Ben is absolutely right about Dan Brown. A mediocre writer with a cult following of uneducated fruitcakes happy to find a reason to discredit religion... whether it's a legitimate reason or not.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/22/2010 2:19:33 PM

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:27:01 PM

Dan Brown is a competent writer. To think he's among the greats means you haven't read the greats. This is the last time I'm saying this.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:10:52 PM

mm hmm, Ben. Perhaps I'm being too harsh towards Dan, but I just didn't get all the hype.

Then again... Twilight is pretty successful... and that's OBVIOUSLY extremely intelligent literature. /sarcasm/

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DeathOfChaos
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:37:45 PM

The DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons weren't horrible, they were just so boring...

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SmokeyPSD
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:06:25 PM

I actually disagree on dan brown, his following is partly his own doing. he WANTED to stir the pot. it's utterly ridiculous. I tried to read angels and demons and was appalled by a "fact page, which was filled with bs, on the freaking FACT PAGE. Dan Brown fed the crazies and that's the only reason why he sold. I dont even think he's a competent writer.

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Dante399
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 5:49:39 PM

Well, I did not say that Brown's among the greatest but I only meant that he is more intelligent than many of the classical writers. He might not be better in writing itself but he managed to become very successful based on many factors; like the TIMING, the TOPIC, the CONTROVERSY, ADVERTISING....

Besides, the success of "Twilight" or any other mediocre product, does not mean that the product itself is great, it means that whoever made it is intelligent enough to sell this mediocre product and make it successful. What you miss is that advertising needs intelligence, LOTS of it. The more intelligent the target is the harder it is to advertise and become successful.


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PS3_Wizard
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:48:06 PM
Reply

It's a bit weird for me. I consider myself a hardcore shooter fan, but I also have an undying love for traditional RPG's (turn based games like dragon quest and all the final fantasies from ff1-ffX). I like to spend hours upon hours leveling my characters to max and persuing ultimate weapons. I can't stand the new age rpg wannabe's because they take most of the strategy out of the genre.

But I get pretty much every game that has a gun in it whether its 3rd person or 1st person. I admit I have a addictive facination with guns and explosives. I have almost every quality game on the market and play anything, but shooters and rpg remain the top to in my book.

Now where I'm getting is that I believe gaming is a hobby and it isn't indicative of your intellegence level. Since I love shooters and rpg's and creative games like heavy rain and flower, does that mean I don't know whether I wanna be dumb or smart? Are people who enjoy ONLY shooters dumb because they only like violence and action? I don't think so...in fact as long as they don't over-indulge in the fantasy and begin to act out what they see portrayed in the game, then I don't think we can judge them.

It was my belief that this nerdy looking fella I was suppose to gradute with was a geek because he would talk about rpg's 24/7 and he lived the whole dungeon and dragon's like lifestyle (wore robes and capes a la the guy who played Mc lovin in superbad, as he did in the movie role models. He played games that most would consider art and strategy filled, yet the kid didn't even graduate with us...failing his senior year.

Dumbness is only relevant when compared to IQ levels and in plausible tests. I've been a Sony supporter since the first system...and it burns me up to see a lot of our psx members talk about xbox gamers as if they were of a lower intelligence just because the system hosts mainly shooters. Yes the immature kids who cuss and say racial slurs are just that...IMMATURE. But that doesn't mean they're dumb, they just haven't had time to develop comprehension and maturity skills! We must unite as gamers...

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nogoat23
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 5:48:48 PM

Well put.

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Zorigo
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 2:51:04 PM
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It really depends upon the person. I love fallout and pokemon but aren't exactly a huge RPG fan, but i do like shooters and more importantly third person shooters and racers. i like indie/rock so by that token i would seem stupid. and not to brag, im not, A* grades and early maths entry and so on....

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DeathOfChaos
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:34:54 PM
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and THIS is where Portal and especially Portal 2 comes in. The only First Person game that I've enjoyed since the first Goldeneye game, lol.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 3:51:41 PM

lol ^.^

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Axe99
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 4:44:53 PM
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Ah, if you're looking for the most complex games in terms of dealing with a large range of information, then turn-based strategy, or Paradox Interactive's EU/Victoria/Hearts of Iron games are probably the most brain-stretching I've played (outside of 'Brain Challenge' type games). RTS games are alright, but tend to more be about getting a small number of twitch routines down right, rather than complex strategies.

But there's another issue altogether, and that is what rates as intelligence. Sure, if you're looking for the genre that's likely to be toughest from a 'study' perspective, turn-based strategy wins hands down, but sports games can require a lot of thinking (think of Madden's deep strategic elements), as can shooters (there's often a need to make tactical decisions on the fly that have serious consequences). RPGs vary depending on their nature, but obviously have tactical and longer-term strategic elements as well.

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JackC8
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 5:08:50 PM
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There are lot of reasons why people enjoy one genre of game instead of another. As far as RPG's, a lot of them have characters that are 9 years old and speak as if they just took a hit off a helium balloon. Many people are turned off by that. Other people just aren't interested in the genre because they've never tried it and just don't think it would be their thing. Or maybe they tried a couple RPG's and they were really bad ones. Or maybe they just like to have a bit of fun now and then and don't relish the idea of devoting 100 hours to a single game. In my personal opinion, it's entirely possible to watch a whole pile of trailers for RPG's and just be totally turned off by the whole thing. Unless you actually devote 50 hours to a game, you can't find out about the deep combat systems. I think they're also more popular amongst gamers who have been playing since the NES days. They're either something you grew up with, or they're not.

For shooters, everybody likes shooters for the first few years they start gaming. Judging by what I've heard of the MW2 online population, most of those people aren't old enough to have gotten past the "just started" phase. There's also a huge influence of friends. If it's the game all my friends are playing, then I must play it too. Others people just like the fast paced action.

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nogoat23
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 5:38:01 PM
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First of all, congratulations to psxextreme for developing a community of readers that can engage one another in conversations like this.

I read through the comments and agree with a lot of the things that were said. I suppose it's time to add my two cents.

Anecdotally we can all point towards people that fit the stereotype or don't fit the stereotype. I have a friend that just got his masters in computer science and his current favorite game is the split screen co-op mode of Left for Dead 2. Then there's my roommate whose past times include: chasing after girls, watching movies where the main plot line involves getting drunk, and working at a minimum wage job because he doesn't have a college education. His favorite games are the Halo series. Both like FPS, one is smart, the other isn't as smart.

Video games, both RPG and FPS, are designed to be accessible by as wide of an audience as possible. A good game is simple to learn and difficult to master. Simple to learn appeals to the idiots, difficult to master appeals to the intellects. Both genres incorporate this into their games, so both groups of gamers have wide ranges of intelligence.

In my opinion, neither genre is very taxing to the brain, and someone's preference for one or the other is less correlated to their intelligence and more correlated to their patience. (Both of my friends that I mentioned above would fall into the impatient category.)

People play FPS for the multiplayer, and a typical match is about five minutes. People that play RPGs love the grand adventure, and a typical RPG can be more than 40 hours long.

There's no correlation between patience and intelligence (that I know of), so I doubt a global study would reveal a correlation between intelligence and video game genre preference.

This stereotype that says people who play first person shooters are idiots likely comes from the fact that that group is the most vocal. (There are idiots that play RPGs, but a patient idiot is less likey to shout at a stranger through the internet than an impatient idiot.)

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Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 8:40:18 PM
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Hey...anybody notice the distinct difference between a thread of comments that only features PSXE readers, and a thread of comments like the Mario one that got onto N4G and ushered in the trash...?

Seriously. The obvious differences in INTELLIGENCE and CIVILITY is the REASON those losers aren't allowed in here! This is all the evidence I need to keep maintaining and building in a particular way.

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Highlander
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:30:43 AM

Definitely noticed...

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RebelJD
Thursday, July 22, 2010 @ 11:25:58 PM
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In my honest opinion intellect itself has its own questionable merit.

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snypa_69
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 7:52:05 AM
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Hi there, I have been reading this sites news for a while now. But have only recently signed up. I'm just wondering where all the hatred for FPS's has stemmed from? Dont want a big debate, just wanna know. Cheers

Snypa :-)

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Underdog15
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 9:45:03 AM

No hate! ^.^ Lots of us here enjoy shooters. Some more on an occasional basis than others.

I think this article just stems from a combination of frustration about the RPG going the way of the dodo as well as the types of people you run into online during a FPS online match versus something like, say, White Knight Chronicles, an MMO, or ModNation.

It's not about shooter fans being dumb, because many are very much NOT. It's more about the likelihood of a particular individual to be interested in a shooter versus an RPG.

Obviously, there's no solution unless someone did a clinical study, but it's not about FPS hatred by any means.

If you play MW2 online, for example, I'm sure you know there's more than a few unintelligent morons. Usually to be found in every single match, almost!

If I had a nickle for every time someone told me they did my mom or that I like their ball-sac.... The funny thing is, they always laugh as if it's the most clever thing they could have thought up to say.

You get the picture.

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Godslim
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 9:57:49 AM
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tbh ive always thought rpgs are more nerdy that other games...even though i like em....tbh anyone can play a shooter its easy....rpgs take more time and u kinda have to think more in turn baised ones

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Underdog15
Friday, July 23, 2010 @ 10:05:42 AM
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I'm starting to think that perhaps the reason it -seems- there's a far greater lack of intelligence in FPS is because of sheer volume and ease of access. In other words, there's obviously plenty of -very- intelligent people playing FPS's, as can be seen in this very forum!

However, perhaps since RPG's aren't always the most accessible and don't cater to a huge demographic of tastes in North America, FPS's are simply more accessible.

There's obviously some very dim-witted people that play RPG's, for example. However, if you know a relatively poorly read individual, it makes sense that they would gravitate towards shooters. Afterall, in our culture they are more popular!

So, since there are literally millions who play FPS's, the chances of you coming into contact with an utter moron in an online match of a game like CoD: MW2, is very likely.

When I play with my friends (which is the only time I do play CoD, really), we're very tactful and work well as a team. We all have pretty high win ratios as well. But we often come across people who are placed on our team who are sometimes very dumb, and are sometimes very brilliant and great communicators as well!

In short, this is what I believe:
I do NOT think intelligent people are more likely to play RPG's necessarily. Perhaps people who highly value artistry or storytelling, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're smart if you like stories. It just means you're more of a blue/green personality.

So to say, RPG'ers are smart is probably misguided. However, I do think the unintelligent folks of society are MORE likely to play a FPS before an RPG. Sheer sales numbers alone would be a good starting point for an argument. BUT that also means, NOT ALL FPS PLAYERS ARE UNINTELLIGENT. Maybe most aren't unintelligent! Who knows? But there are definitely a LOT of FPS players that are pretty darn dumb. Enough that it isn't rare to run into one online.

In short, FPS players aren't dumb because they're FPS players. Many aren't dumb at all! But if you ARE unintelligent, chances are you'd pick an FPS over an RPG.

This means I believe there to be no correlation in terms of intelligence being defined by genre. However, there may be a correlation between lower levels of intelligence and the likelihood of being drawn to FPS. I do not believe RPG's are a stand-alone option in any case related to intelligence. Rather FPS is the choice of the unintelligent before all other genres. It would also appear that high levels of intelligence would likely not discriminate against or in favor of any genre at all.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/23/2010 10:10:47 AM

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