Movie Maker Newell: Video Games Can't Do Human Drama

SirLoin of Beef
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:23:35 PM
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Yeah, he's totally out-of-touch on this one. To me, a well-done video game can do drama better because you become a more active participant in a game than you do in a movie. One game I've seen generate a good deal of drama is Dragon's Age: Origin. There are a lot of people who feel wrapped up in the relationship and the drama it created between the warden they created and Morrigan. And that's just one example. Heavy Rain is as dramatic as any movie, even more so due to the player's involvement in how the drama plays out.

7 up, 0 down

kraygen
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:27:05 PM
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Why would a guy who feels this way about video games make a video game movie? Also why do people who know nothing about a subject think that because they can get press they should use it to bash something they have no knowledge of?

Poor guy, he's about to get bashed hard for for his ignorance.

9 up, 0 down

Him
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:36:50 PM
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The game that I felt most attached to the characters was Ace Combat 4 or 5 (can't remenber) when Grim crashed in the center of the stadium. I was like WTF! NOOOOOOOO hahaha. But seriously my brother and I went silent after that. The developers did a great job connecting you to the characters and when one of them dies, it hits you. Awesome stuff

Last edited by Him on 7/29/2010 12:39:30 PM

4 up, 0 down

Ultimadream
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:37:29 PM
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If he wanted drama, he should have chose a better game, i reckon a Shadow of Memories (So Destiny) film adaption could work very well. He's probaly just grouchy PoP was a flop. I don't want to lay into him to much because i actually did like Donnie Brasco but with a quote like "I am a bad man, I have a mean jagged sword." he's just asking for trouble.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:06:21 PM

I agree, this guy was upset that he couldn't make the first massive game-movie blockbuster. Butthurt even.

6 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:47:10 PM
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"My son My son My son My son My son My son My son"

Ah shut the hell up

I'd love to see him play Demon's Souls and tell me he doesn't get scared when a 10 feet skeleton bats him off a cliff with a 10 feet sword.

Or when he gets invaded by a black phantom hunting his ass down lol

---

It's one thing to play 20 minutes of a game.
It's another to actually play the whole game and then actually telling us that he didn't feel anything while completing the WHOLE game.

Ok Newell, let me watch 20 minutes of your movies and then say "I didn't feel anything."

9 up, 0 down

Shams
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:02:32 PM

Btw, I'm loving Demon's Souls. I only wish I bought it new, because From Software, Japan Studio, and Atlus would've got some of the proceeds which they deserve, and I would've had more time with the games online support (American servers are supposed to go through March '11, and may even go a bit longer seeing how this game is finally catching on, probably due to the drop in prices, used game price, and recent European release).

2 up, 0 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:07:12 PM

If he's so nuts over his son maybe he could see the drama in Heavy Rain like LOSING your son ya know?

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FATHASUN
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:49:10 PM
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De ja vous. I wonder how long it will take him to realize the error if his ways.

For a moment I began to think that maybe these movie bigs feel the gaming industry breathing down their necks and these comments are only an attempt to take advantage of the buzz. But the quotes are just ridiculous. You would think that someone who is involved in so many movies would at least put up a more articulate argument. An argument that he would lose of course.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:08:49 PM

His does reek of a movie-fanboy argument insofar as it has no proof or backing behind it.

7 up, 0 down

frostface
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:55:27 PM
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What is it with people who share the Newell name that have to put their foot in their mouths? I sense another Newell (by name-sake) apology on the horizon!
How can someone with this attitude be the right person to of made a video game adapt movie? I haven't seen Prince of Persia but heard lack lustre reviews, now it's becoming more clear why this may be.

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sunspider13
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:56:20 PM
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SPOILERS!:

The Metroid giving it's own life to save Samus from Mother Brain in Super Metroid.

Sephiroth killing Aeris (among other things) in FFVII.

The beginning of Uncharted 2

The beginning of the first God of War...

really I could go on about how wrong this guy is. For someone to say that without having even playing any good games is just downright ignorant. And you wonder why your movie, based on a GAME flopped, NARF!

Last edited by sunspider13 on 7/29/2010 12:57:17 PM

2 up, 2 down

tridon
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 12:59:09 PM
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I'm sorry, Mike Newell, but whether you're an excellent filmmaker or not, you're clearly not too bright. I'll agree that the PoP games don't give you much "feeling", but there's a ton of games out there that do. I actually cried a little during the finale of Metal Gear Solid 4 because I knew it was an end of an era. I grew up with that series so I definitely felt some strong emotions when its end credits began to roll. Also, I have never felt more calm or relaxed as what I do when I play Flower. I haven't got around to Heavy Rain yet, but I can guarantee some strong emotions during that session, too. Basically, it comes down to this; play some well-written games before you start running your mouth.

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main_event05
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:52:09 PM

Right on. I got a bit teary eyed too. But MGS 4 shattered the "Drama" mold. Kojima truly out did himself, which more and more Devs are doing and in turn its making Hollywood look like shit, who in turn talks down about the legitamacy of video games versus movies, then they take another blow at the Devs by turning their hard work (the games) into crappy, lifeless, shadows of their former greatness.

</rant>

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Lawless SXE
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:52:58 PM

You aren't Robinson Crusoe in getting a bit teary at the end of MGS4. It wasn't that it was the end of an era for me though. For me, it was Snake in that graveyard after everything he'd been through. Broke me down.
Peace.

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oldmike
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 11:54:34 PM

MGS2 after ottacon's sister died
that had me choked up

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main_event05
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 1:08:59 AM

Lol, so i assume its safe to say MGS has more drama than any man should admit to taking in one sitting, that is nicely ofset by action and suspense??

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JPBooch
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:04:58 PM
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Another schmuck that doesn't know what the fu** he is talking about.

Let's put the emotional drama of CGI in games aside for a second and just look at the raw emotion of playing a game and beating it. I literally sweat and go through a myriad of emotions when playing a hard game or challenge. Whether it's Demon's Souls, World at War on veteran, KZ2 on elite mode or even those damn Alfhiem Challenges in Bayonetta. I've worked myself from sheer frustration and anger to utter joy and accomplishment.

What garbage movie has he put out that has mirrored half those emotions when watching.

The disconnect from these morons is just unfathomable.

2 up, 1 down

RX78Zero
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:08:08 PM
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There are alot of games now that crate emotion when you simulate the simulation(playing the video game). Petty naive of the guy to say such things. From what i played over the few years of gaming that delivered the human emotion as he seys are; the metal gear solid series, Uncharted 2, Demons Souls, God of War, Half Life 2, and Heavy Rain of course. Thats what i played sofar and i would like to say that Killzone 2 might have something going, in a sense of making you scared briefly every now and then.

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JackC8
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:22:59 PM
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He's kind of missing the fact that in a good game, the player becomes the main character and that's where the drama comes in. For instance, I felt far, FAR more immersed in Dead Space than I did watching any horror movie since Alien or Aliens.

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SvenMD
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:23:44 PM

The other thing about Dead Space was not being able to pause the game....the on-screen menu was AMAZING from an immersion aspect.

Also the sound and the way everything changed when you went into an "outer space" vacuum sequence.

Great game.

3 up, 0 down

ace_boon_coon
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:24:21 PM

he must have never played heavy rain. that game is better than most movies.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:26:43 PM
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*sigh*

Another dum-dum.

Just as you cannot fully appreciate the meaning of a film or drama without first becoming immersed within the work of art, so too are you unable to relate to any video game's artistic meaning without also being immersed.

I mean, take "The Truman Show" for example. A spectacular piece of art in movies. However, if I swing by when my wife is watching it and just watch partway through at say, the chase scene, it will have absolutely no meaning for me. If I had become immersed within the movie from the beginning and invested my time and energy into the character, Truman's attempt to escape has not only tremendous emotional meaning for me, but it also stretches my thoughts philosophically.

I'm going to work on my art essay the rest of the afternoon, thanks to this.

5 up, 0 down

Ultimadream
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:55:37 PM

Yeah but the same could be said for a game, if i havent played a game for a long time and i want to play it but have a save halfway through, i'll start from the beginning again, i certainly would not start a game from halfway anyway.

1 up, 1 down

Underdog15
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:25:41 PM

yeah, that's my point actually. I should have said that. The same does apply to games, and that's what I was getting at. If he just watches his assistants play games or his son playing shooters, he's not going to understand the artistic values in many games. Same as if I walk past the Truman Show halfway through with no investment. That's the comparison I meant to make.

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Shams
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:34:02 PM
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I am amazed how some people in the entertainment business can be so ignorant about other prominent media within the whole industry, such as video games.

There are plenty of critics who shared Newell's opinion, but about his own film!

But remarks like these, unsurprisingly, are coming from people who are willfully ignorant. They haven't played games. Newell himself says he didn't play POP, but had an assistant do it for him. He talks about how he sees his son playing this, or how much he hates his son doing that. But, even if he saw his son make a level in LBP, I'm sure he'd be just as unlikely to dog on video games as he'd be on legos.

I swear to God, just show any of these people like Ebert, or Newell a cutscene of Uncharted 2, and you'll see surprise on their faces. Then, put a controller in their hand, and watch that shock turn in to smiley excitement. Or have Newell play Heavy Rain, during the part where he is looking for his lost son in the mall, and then ask him if video games don't make you feel anything.

But I have a very strong feeling that these people know more than they are letting out. They know how the film industry and video games are heavily influencing each other, especially recently, but how one is growing faster than the other...and they are scared of and threatened by that.

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DeathOfChaos
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:33:27 PM

Atheists are the same way with religion, lol. I just realized that XD

3 up, 4 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:21:12 PM

Everyone is atheist about the majority of religions that have ever occurred throughout history; some of us just go one god further.

3 up, 3 down

WolfCrimson
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:00:40 PM

Kowhoho: That doesn't make sense *scratches head*

2 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 6:35:49 PM

Sorry, I was remembering a quote and screwed it up. Here's the original:

"We are all atheists about most of the gods humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." – Richard Dawkins

1 up, 1 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 4:56:31 AM

Again, doesn't make sense. To say you're an athiest means you don't believe in any god. The a- prefix means zero/none/not, where thiest means believing in a god/gods. Hence Monothiest means believing in 1 God, Polythiest means believing in many (I'm sure you already know this, but just in case). I think I get what the quote is trying to say, but still, wrong choice of words on R. Dawkins' part.

Last edited by WolfCrimson on 7/30/2010 4:59:21 AM

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Underdog15
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 8:51:26 AM

I once read a really great book called "God Doesn't Believe in the Atheist".

It's excellent, actually. The basic thesis is this: True unbelievers of religion must claim to be agnostic (without knowledge, by definition) because there is no way to determinately define the origin of existence without religion. You can believe the science of evolution, but so can the religious. It just doesn't define true origin or the beginning of time.

God doesn't believe in the atheist, because atheists make a decision to believe in the counter-existence of any 'god'. They can't prove God doesn't exist. They have to decide to believe he doesn't exist. For this reason, they are acting on faith in God's non-existence. Faith is the belief in the unseen or unproven, which is the foundation of religion. Atheism is, for this reason, a religion in and of itself which is, of course, a contradiction.

So it's ok to not believe in God, but if you are honest with yourself or even remotely scientific in your thinking, you are forced to admit you are an agnostic... NOT an atheist.

Good read, by the way!

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Kowhoho
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 10:47:26 AM

Actually a lot of people - for that exact reason - call themselves agnostic atheists. They know that whatever belief system they choose cannot be proven or unproven, but their personal belief is that no god exists.

All this makes it sound like I love to talk about theistic technicalities but I really don't.

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Underdog15
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 11:44:20 AM

I always considered that agnostic atheist approach a cop out... It's a good reason to not care or not have to think about purpose, origin, etc.

I, for one, think it far nobler to continue to search and search and search until some truth makes itself known. Further still, I think it noble to continually question whatever it is you believe, whether it strengthens what you believe or causes some degree of alteration doesn't matter to me. Far better to have a firm foundation for your beliefs than to follow blindly out of convenience or ease.

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WolfCrimson
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 11:56:01 AM

@Underdog: That's common sense. I mean an athiest can only claim be a true athiest only if they see for themselves that every last religion is false. (not saying that every last religion is false, just saying that that's the criteria to be met)

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WolfCrimson
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 12:06:37 PM

@Underdog: I wouldn't use the term 'nobler'. I'd use the term 'correct'. (I realize I might be stepping on some people's toes this way, but it cannot be avoided) It's too much of an important matter to be left alone.

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Underdog15
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 2:31:13 PM

Yeah. I agree with you, though. Obviously as most do, I have a lot of friends who just say they don't believe in anything, or religion, or whatever. But most of them avoid deep questions.

I don't think it's healthy to dwell too much on heavy questions, as it can be tiring, but I hate the idea of just coasting through life without creating any real identity. I can't accept the idea that we're only here by chance with no meaning whatsoever. I hate the fact that we can't prove origin.

No one knows what happened. The fact that time had to start from a push from something beyond even the fourth dimension of time and space is even more frustrating.

How can you prove that higher dimensional force was a conscious being defined in no other way than "god" (or "I AM" from the origional Hebrew philosophy translated from the Greek/Hebrew equivalent of "YHWH") or a moving mass of 5th or 6th dimensional ... thing... that fluke pushed the start of evolution and the development of the universe.

I've thought about this a lot.... lol As if you couldn't tell.

Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/30/2010 2:33:46 PM

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misterobotto
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:35:04 PM
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It sounds like his son has been playing the wrong games... I mean I can for sure admit that Modern Warfare 2's multiplayer isn't going to evoke a great deal of emotion (other than the occasional controller hurling rage), but that isn't every game by a long stretch. I wasn't a huge fan of the gameplay in Final Fantasy XIII, but the story sure did pull me in, as did the God of War series. I personally feel that more emotion can be tapped into when you have some actual control over the character.

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Underdog15
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 1:35:35 PM
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Oh yeah, Mr. Newell... Harry Potter? Didn't feel anything except depression when I ran out of popcorn. And I didn't see your other movies.

3 up, 2 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:13:21 PM

I wouldn't go near a Harry Potter movie with blinders on.

2 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:05:18 PM
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No human drama? Aeris was murdered. I cried. Drama. 'nuff said.

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DeathOfChaos
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:27:44 PM

And that was over 10 years ago, now look at games, lol.

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kraygen
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 11:53:10 PM

I've beaten that game 4 times, I cry every time. I know it's going to happen and I cry anyway.

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Underdog15
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 8:53:09 AM

I only cried once at that part. Every other time I just want to kill Sephiroth.

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just2skillf00l
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:07:45 PM
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Wow! Does he understand how many other different forms of entertainment he's insulted?

"You can't do it without the human drama".

So does he mean to say that without an actual living human countenance going through the motions for you to sympathize with, then all of what entertainment brings to the table is automatically unsuccessful?

Well, with this statement you not only insulted video games, but animation and anime, novels relying on character development, etc. Before you go making generic statements Mr. Newell, make sure you call out the targeted enemy. Otherwise, you'll end up with a lot of enemies in a lot of places.

Since I enjoy all of the aforementioned types of entertainment, my thoughts about your ideas and train of thought are quite unpleasant. I would refrain from making careless comments in the future.

2 up, 0 down

Crabba
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:13:30 PM
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Ah Ben since when were all games the same in 1990?? You should be old enough to know better... Some of my favorite games were made around 1990, and none of them were the same, or had anything to do with 'I'm a bad man with a jagged sword' either. In fact, most games around 1990 had more drama and a better story than most garbage released today.

This guy needs to dig past the Call of Duty's and take a look at games like the Uncharted's! Now those games have better story & drama than most recent movies I've seen.

1 up, 5 down

Ben Dutka PSXE [Administrator]
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:55:27 PM

It's just a date I threw out there. Don't take it so literally.

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gangan19
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:26:51 PM
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i hate you gabe

2 up, 3 down

WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:55:24 PM

lol, what?

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Scarecrow
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:10:24 PM

lol

That last name's poisonous

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DeathOfChaos
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:29:31 PM
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This is coming from the guy who took the Prince of Persia games and made Bubble Boy star as the prince... and the movie was awful anyway. He's just upset because his movie can't even touch how great the games were.

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oONewcloudOo
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:35:00 PM
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*palmface* this guy is an idiot, he got someone else to play the game a he watched and as everyone know watching other people playing games is boring

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Kowhoho
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:26:11 PM

lol, it's supposed to be facepalm. :)

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Beamboom
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:36:13 PM
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It's always sad to see a man talk about things he knows nothing about.
- "I watched my assistants play Prince Of Persia"... Gee what a jerk. He's made some good movies, though. That he knows something about.

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WorldEndsWithMe
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:57:04 PM
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You guys are right, what kind of Asshat has someone else play their games for them? That removes the entire experience anyway.

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kraygen
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 11:54:58 PM

Yes and no, my first experience with Heavy rain I was watching someone and it was very emotional.

However Heavy Rain is one of the most amazing pieces of entertainment to be created in a very long time.

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jdt1981
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 2:57:05 PM
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"You can't do it without the human drama. And the video game cannot do that. The video game can do all sorts of face-pulling, all sorts of: 'I am a bad man, I have a mean jagged sword,', but it can't do any more than that."

Ignorant and bitter much?.... I can't help but laugh at such an ignorant and bitter comment. He's just another movie guy who is bitter that every year the video game industry takes a bigger and bigger piece of the entertainment pie. In 10 to 20 years the movie industry might be a shell of it former self replaced by video games or some other form of interactive entertainment and this obviously doesn't sit well with people who make a living off of movies.

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TheHighlander
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:05:26 PM
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Poo on this person. What an ignorant ass he is.

I'll go ahead and relate another example of a game that was capable of moving not only me the player, but my wife the viewer - who was at the very skeptical about JRPGs and loathed the lead character in the game I'm gonna talk about. I should point out that she has since changed her mind and played the games through herself and enjoyed every moment.

Anyway, Xenosaga episode 1. At the end of the game when you are escaping from Proto Merkaba. Someone has to stay behind to cover the escape of the others and ensure that the thing fully separates before entering the atmosphere of 2nd Miltia. KOS-MOS stays behind of course, despite Shion's furious and passionate objection. Then after making it to the Elsa, Shion waits by the door hoping against hope that KOS-MOS can somehow make it out alive, but the docking area starts to break up and they have to leave. You feel Shion's heart being torn out, and just as you feel sure that Kos-MOS is gone, there's a glimmer of hope and Shion somehow feels her presence, they bring the ship in close to a wall and KOS-MOS bursts through the wall, leaping to the Elsa, and safety. Shion catches her hand, but can't hang on, just as KOS-MOS slips from her hand Ziggy's arm flashes past and he grabs KOS-MOS pulling her to safety. A big moment, and very emotional. Perhaps it's the voice acting, and perhaps its the characters, but it's a great moment. But it's not over yet, the Elsa is too close the atmosphere to land safely. Once again KOS-MOS to the rescue, she leaves the safety of the ship and uses her own power to protect the ship during re-entry. Of course you think she'll be burned up. The key moment is just as she is about to extend her power to protect the ship, KOS-MOS says "I am happy...to be of service." Then as she extends her arms you see her normally red eyes turn blue and flash bright blue as she taps into her true power to protect Shion and the others. Then in the next scene we see The Elsa flying safely and then through on of the Ship's cameras we see KOS-MOS standing on the hull, hair flying in the wind, standing proud - red eyes back to normal. The Blue eyes are very significant, but we don't find out why 'til later, but it adds to the scene.

This is a very moving ending sequence, great music, visuals and dialog. The voice actors do a great job, and the characters are one that by now you care about and all together it's a moving scene that even brings a lump to my throat just describing it. When I first played through the game with my ever skeptical wife watching, she was stunned to silence and then tears, as was I, and joy when KOS-MOS leaps from Proto Merkaba, and then back to tears again when you think she's been burned up in order to save Shion again.

So, I don't know what this Newell guy thinks about games, nor do I care. I do know that games can very much do human drama.

If you want an even more powerful moment of human drama from Xenosaga then you need look no further than Xenosaga 3. there are several things revealed about Shion's own past that bring strong emotions, but the end of Xenosaga 3 is unrivaled in my mind for playing your emotions for all they are worth. I won't describe that ending, it's a long one and it's a far more recent game so there may be people still playing it. But, once again this was a game ending that had us spellbound through the whole thing.

Oh, and when I say spellbound, I mean it. I got to the end of Xenosaga 1 at about 3am on a week day, and we took the extra time to watch the ending through. It was like reading a book you could not put down. Xenosaga 3 was even worse, I was playing late into the night, and got towards the end. As it developed I couldn't stop playing. My wife couldn't stop watching and urged me to keep going despite the late hour.

Whether or not someone as jaded as Newell might consider it as a portrayal of human drama, JRPGs such as the Xenosaga games are stuffed with human drama, and emotion. So, whatever this guy wants to think, it won't change my mind about what games can do.

As for recent games, as someone else mentioned, Uncharted 1 & 2 both have excellent scripts and voice acting and really do convey human drama and emotion. They're both great examples of more recent games with drama.

9 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:15:28 PM

Off topic for 1 sec....

Hey Highlander,
I left you a article about someone finding a hidden update(??) in that new FW update.

Here ya go...
http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/7503.html

Ok, we now return you to your favorite thread, now currently in progress.....

0 up, 0 down

TheHighlander
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:22:29 PM

Nice, I read something else about that today as well. I remember they talked of changing the way that the firmware was structured before when they added the recovery menu. the idea was to only place on the flashroms the elements that necessarily had to be there. Everything else is kept on the HDD. If they are doing that they could be doing incrementals and only flash the ROMS when something core needs to change. It would definitely be faster.

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TheHighlander
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:23:48 PM

I'll trade you a link,

Did you read about PS3 global sales closing in rapidly on the 360?

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=257721

Considering how many 360s we actually do know (factually) are dead, it's no longer a stretch of the imagination to claim that the PS3 is outselling the 360 globally.

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Pandacastro
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 8:34:53 PM

Xenosaga sounds interesting. Are any of them for ps3 ??

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TheHighlander
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 11:21:47 PM

Sadly no, they're all PS2 games - then again, you may have a PS2 already, in which case, it's not so sad. Still they are all PS2 games.

Classic, turn based JRPG with a sci-fi setting. 1 & 3 are the best of the three, 2 is good, just not as good as 1 or 3.

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kraygen
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 11:57:47 PM

I'm sorry I tried really hard to play xenosaga a few months ago. I bought the first one and was playing through it and I just found it boring.

I had heard such good things about it and I could not get into it. I still feel like I'm missing something by not completing it, but I couldn't stand most of the characters, the level design, and the story really didn't grab me.

I can't explain it other than that, I tried to keep playing it because it's so popular but it just didn't do it for me.

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WolfCrimson
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 5:01:31 AM

@kraygen: BLASPHEMY!! D:<
Nah j/k.

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TheHighlander
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 10:38:04 AM

LOL!

Kraygen, it can be something of an acquired taste. The Shion character is particularly off-putting to some, she's one of those love or loathe characters. I fell 'in love' with her character and some of the others and really got into the game. If you can last through the initial impressions, there is a really deep story that explains a lot of Shion's character and why she is the way she is. To cut a long 3 part story short, she is really, really screwed up inside. Very much damaged by her past.

I have a strong 'knight in shining armor' aspect to my personality and figure that is why I latched on to her character quickly because I always felt like there was some thing like that in her past that left her the way she was.

One way of the other, if you stick with it it's rewarding, but it's not for everyone, and I respect anyone that tries a game and decide they don't like it, instead of listening to the anti-hype alone and hating on it due to the anti-hype.

@Wolfcrimson,

LOL, indeed. I'll argue Xenosaga's case with anyone, and defend Shion's corner to the end, but then again, I'm probably just weird that way. ;)

1 up, 0 down

kraygen
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 1:35:43 PM

Yeah I liked Kos-mos but couldn't stand shion or the little scientist guy who was in love with her. Just kept wishing there was less shion and more Kos-mos.

I will say that while I didn't care for the voices of a lot of the characters, the voice acting was done really well.

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:05:28 PM
Reply

OK, with Mike Newell's idiotic rant, especially since he let's others play his video games for him, instead of doing his own research....

All Gabe's plates of triple-decker cheeseburgers now are all belong to Mike!!!!

There, that should keep his ever-flapping jaws busy for the rest of the year!

2 up, 0 down

Scarecrow
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:16:00 PM

LMAO!!!!

That was awesome!

"All Gabe's plates of triple-decker cheeseburgers now are all belong to Mike!!!!"

^OMG!

1 up, 0 down

SvenMD
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:08:57 PM
Reply

Tell Mr. Newell to please see the opening sequence to Killzone 2.

When Visari gives his speech and then comes on screen and says, "...They will know, Helghan belongs to the Helghast." I swear that I still get chill bumps when I see that....then the awesome horns kick in with the title...Awesome.

Guerilla knows some drama.

6 up, 0 down

Kowhoho
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:21:50 PM

That opening always gives me goosebumps too.

1 up, 0 down

sirbob6
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 9:08:22 PM

The ending of it also gave goosebumps because I was not expecting something of that scale of epicness.

0 up, 0 down

carl0975
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 10:02:42 PM

*Spoilers*

I thought Radec committing suicide instead of being captured was pretty dramatic.

Side Note: I think I'm going to go play through Killzone 2 again :p

1 up, 0 down

Crabba
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 6:16:55 PM

Completely agree, for being an FPS Killzone 2 has some awesome drama & acting, especially Visari and Radec like you said, both in the intro and towards the end of the game - too bad they won't be in the 3rd game (I'm assuming anyway) :-/

Not to mention the soundtrack in KZ2 is completely epic!

0 up, 0 down

Zorigo
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:19:08 PM
Reply

The end of MGS4 is tear welling
both Uncharteds but especially the second are crazilly cinematic
KZ2 feels like a proper gritty war film. The end where the Helghast Leader is shot...
Heavy Rain was definitely also one of those cinematic story games.
I'll say this politely; eff off Newell, I've got examples ;)

1 up, 0 down

Amazingskillz
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:35:34 PM
Reply

After Ebert and now this guy Newell, I'm really beginning to think the real motivation behind they're apparent minimalization of games is JEALOUSY. They seem like people who come late to the party and missed all the fun so they bash the party itself. To say games have no drama clearly shows hasn't played a good game. When Elena told Drake "Lets split up" it was dramatic and I was genuinely concerned for her safety. Just like NATE was. I was kind of caught off guard at how emotional I was about them splitting up because I thought she would get killed or captured or something. The first time I had to decide to rescue or harvest a little sister was not so easy until I decided whether I wanted to be a bad or good protagonist. This Mike Newell guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. I think they are jealous and afraid that games will erode their movie profits.

3 up, 0 down

nogoat23
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:41:02 PM
Reply

I think he meant to say robots can't do human drama, because I'm pretty sure humans can do human drama. (Video games still use humans, right?)

2 up, 0 down

TheHighlander
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 3:45:37 PM

Robots are people too!

KOS-MOS made me say it...

5 up, 0 down

spiderboi
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 10:30:39 PM

gotta love that sexy bot

0 up, 0 down

TheHighlander
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 11:23:39 PM

LOL! Indeed. When I said that KOS-MOS 'made' me say it, I did of course men that she made a comment in passing about her humanity, and I felt compelled to defend her...of course I also felt compelled to gaze wistfully in her general direction too...

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 6:59:43 PM

Futureama's robot "Bender" knows drama.... every time he says "Bite my shiny metal a$$".

(Ok, ok, he definitely knows comedy too)

0 up, 0 down

johnld
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:09:24 PM
Reply

this is why the movie industry isnt moving forward. Just because its not a movie that is basically a 2 hour rip off, they dont consider it competition, no matter how much they get beat down by it. remind me where movies are "taking" their ideas. arent they always trying to make a movie based on a videogame? trying to cash in its popularity. I guess they forgot that they are competing in the entertainment field which videogames clearly yield more return for our investments.

3 up, 0 down

Fane1024
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:17:56 PM
Reply

I'm not trying to defend Newell's statement, because it is flat-out wrong, as evidenced by Heavy Rain and the other examples given here.

How on earth he thought he could capture the experience of playing a game by watching over someone's shoulder is beyond me. That's like "watching" a movie by having someone tell you what happened in it.

However, it is true that MOST video game narratives operate at roughly the same level as action movies or pulp fiction (not Pulp Fiction) and aren't as psychologically or emotionally deep as "character" films or classic novels (you know, the ones Ben's always talking up).

The visceral thrill of something like Dead Space (pun intended) is a lot different from the emotional power of the best movies, but I do believe video games sometimes hit that mark and certainly have the potential to go as far (or further) than movies, if artists like David Cage are allowed to do what they want.

0 up, 0 down

Lotusflow3r
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:23:03 PM
Reply

I get more emotion from "hollywood" games (Red Dead) then i do hollywood films.

It's just how it is now.

I'd like to point him in the direction of Team Ico and Silent Hill 2. Two games in which better directors such as Guillermo del Toro have outright acknowledged as influences and art in both story telling and execution.

1 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:38:23 PM
Reply

Hmmmmm let's break my own numbers down for you there, Mr. Mike No-nothing,

I haven't been inclined to go see a movie since the week 1 opening of "There's something about Mary", and that was a super-comedic non-drama!

BUTTTTTTT.......I've bought well over 600+ video games worth, full of drama ever since then.

Soooooo, which form of entertainment drama do you guess holds my interest the most?????

(As Mike's mental wake-up bell starts going ding, ding, ding)......
"Yes, you're absolutely right...it's VIDEO GAMES."

So Monty, please tell Mike what he's won for FINALLY picking the correct answer.

"You have won yourself a fabulous cookie, all chocked full of assorted fruity nuts, too numerous to mention, just like yourself!

Enuff said!!!!!!

Last edited by BikerSaint on 7/29/2010 4:40:55 PM

1 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 5:04:03 PM

You know I have to ask, how do you propose to get the cookie to Mr Newell?
Peace.

0 up, 0 down

Nynja
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 4:56:32 PM
Reply

Hmm, maybe someone should show him Heavenly Sword. Some of the best mo-cap acting and story in video games.

Add to that Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2.

2 up, 0 down

TheHighlander
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 5:03:12 PM

The way I see it, when you inhabit these characters for 10-20 hours - or more - you can't help but buy into their emotions and feel you have a stake in what happens. so in games like Uncharted (as you mentioned) you can't help but feel the drama, such as when Elena get's injured. You can't help but be angry - as Drake is - it's just part of playing the game, and inhabiting the character for so long.

It's like reading a novel. If a novel was over in a couple of hours, it'd be a poor read. A typical JRPG has you inhabiting the character for 20+ hours so it's no wonder that the story and it's twists and turns matter to you.

A movie that lasts for less than 90 minutes has an impact, a really good movie can be moving, but 90 minutes vs 20+ hours, which is going to involve you more?

1 up, 0 down

ABUrabad
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 5:18:35 PM

thats 100% right ,I consider Heavenly Sword that game that was best of transferring human emotions better than every other game I have ever seen,
by the way i haven't played Heavy Rain yet to tell the same about it

0 up, 0 down

BikerSaint
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 6:11:28 PM

Highlander, Thanks for the link.

Lawless,
No free delivery, but.....he can always "Mapquest" out the location for said cookie.

0 up, 0 down

Crabba
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 6:23:54 PM

Definitely! I just replayed Heavenly Sword a little while ago and it was even better than I remembered! The voice-overs, acting, mo-cap in that game is simply STUNNING! Besides, you just GOTTA love Andy Serkis!!! That said, the other cast was awesome too, definitely felt very emotional and personal. If it wasn't for some of the gameplay glitches and slowdowns of that game Heavenly Sword would've had a clear place at the very top of my all-time favorite video games!

0 up, 0 down

ABUrabad
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 5:01:17 PM
Reply

simply ill never care about any statement like that ,its clearly that everybody can see that video games are the future of entertainment industry ,because all figure are saying that
people numbers talk clearly with no lies
,,,,,,
the first time iv ever get emotional about a video game when that ninja in metal gear solid one had sacrificed himself in the final boss battle to save Snake from bein cruched
:'(

1 up, 0 down

ABUrabad
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 5:04:37 PM

or what about when the BIG BOSS (in MGS : SNAKE EATER)arrives at an anonymous grave, The Boss's, just one of thousands located in Arlington Cemetery. Laying down The Boss's gun and a bouquet of lilies upon the nameless gravestone, he scans the endless rows before him, salutes, and sheds a single tear.

1 up, 0 down

ABUrabad
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 5:11:04 PM
Reply

there is an article i found that i would like all to read
http://www.bowenresearch.com/studies.php?id=3

0 up, 0 down

Lawless SXE
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 5:22:25 PM
Reply

Oh gods. Here we go again. Why can't these people grow some decency and actually participate in what they're commenting on before talking sh*t. As damn near every other poster has said here, Newell is dead wrong on this.

Games can evoke feelings of excitement and tension is the gameplay, which is of course, what movies can do in a well choreographed action sequence. They can also move the player to tears, or laughter through the cutscenes and dialogue, which is exactly the same as what movies do. Just because it doesn't display it with real people does not mean that human emotion can't be displayed.

Face capture technology is now at the point where even the most minute cues in the movement of facial muscles can be registered and rendered in a convincing fashion. The same goes for body capture, the same technology has been used in movies for years, but no-one ever spoke out against that as being too unrealistic or whatever. This guy is a right twat and no mistake.

If you want to be moved by a game, you son't necessarily have to play it, although that certainly helps the emotional connection to the character. Games that have actually made me feel something: MGS4 and Valkyria Chronicles both brought me to tears; The Bear portion of Heavy Rain was close to the most exhilarating thing I have ever experienced, in or out of gaming; Bioshock made me reevaluate reality with 'that scene'; and Uncharted 2 legitimately made me want to kill Lazarevic.

I'm so sick and tired of people talking down on games and trying to make them lesser, just because that is what they have been in the past. Games are no longer just for children, and all these bitter idiots should realise and admit that. Matter of fact, I wouldn't hesitate to level his criticism of games at most movies I've seen recently. They focus far too heavily on action at the expense of human drama.

As Eminem sings: 'Haters can make like bees with no stingers and drop dead.' I've had it.
Peace.

3 up, 0 down

Snaaaake
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 6:05:35 PM
Reply

He's just regretting he chose movie instead of video game.

Oh, and Snake Eater's ending is one of the most touching moment ever.

0 up, 0 down

spiderboi
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 10:32:05 PM

damn straight up! snake-eater ending was a real WOW for me. well, pretty much all MGS endings were all great moments (with perhaps the exception of MGS2--with the numerous info being thrown at you i was like "say wha???")

0 up, 0 down

RebelJD
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 9:39:00 PM
Reply

A man makes money off a film he makes from a video game and then discredits the video game. Classy, real classy.

2 up, 0 down

spiderboi
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 10:33:41 PM
Reply

Dude bombs his movie based from a video game. He has to blame something. Does he blame himself and the movie? No. He blames the video game. Stupid. Doesn't he realize that about 90% of the ones who watched what atrocity he did actually played the damn game he's lambasting?

0 up, 0 down

Underdog15
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 2:24:27 PM

No kidding. I haven't seen it yet, but considered it. Definitely won't now.

1 up, 0 down

Shadow_Striker
Thursday, July 29, 2010 @ 11:45:24 PM
Reply

"You can't do it without the human drama. And the video game cannot do that. The video game can do all sorts of face-pulling, all sorts of: 'I am a bad man, I have a mean jagged sword,', but it can't do any more than that."

I have seen a lot out of Hollywood that could not do any more then that either. The only thing Hollywood has done with any enthusiasm is rip story and characters from games, books and comics. And from that there are only a few Directors with the drive and passion to use that material to make something compelling and entertaining..... He, sadly, is not one of them. As far as I'm concerned both industries are fairly equal at this point and the only thing you really have to decide is interactive experience or a passive experience.... and there is a time and place for both.

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Sol
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 1:21:29 AM
Reply

Key statement found "I watched." Clearly if I had simply "watched" a video game being played I would'nt feel anything... That's why I PLAY them. Mike Newell can eat a choice word or several.

Last edited by Sol on 7/30/2010 1:21:58 AM

0 up, 0 down

WolfCrimson
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 5:06:38 AM

Still showin' off that Fortune Hunter treasure page, eh, Mr. Badguy? ;)

0 up, 0 down

Ole_Gunner
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 1:38:06 AM
Reply

Hahaha yet Mike Newell will be the first guy begging Sony to direct Uncharted the movie!!what a douche!
honestly pick up the controller Mike and stop hiding behind your camera

1 up, 0 down

dlte
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 3:03:44 AM
Reply

I think he's just mad that Prince Of Persia sucked.

2 up, 0 down

Amazingskillz
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 11:27:01 AM
Reply

I think the more these guys make comments like this the better it is for games. Developers will no doubt be listening and try to prove them wrong

1 up, 0 down

Macavity
Friday, July 30, 2010 @ 6:01:35 PM
Reply

You want human drama? Get on any MMORPG, there are tons of human drama everywhere!

0 up, 0 down

iSayuSay
Saturday, July 31, 2010 @ 12:31:28 PM
Reply

What about Pixar movie?
It's just a "pulled face" character

Yet we still call it a movie ... and a Pixar movie, definitely can do human drama, doesnt it?

0 up, 0 down

FlyingKickPunch
Sunday, August 01, 2010 @ 6:59:11 PM
Reply

Uh-oh, don't tell Kratos...Actually he's a demi-god, but still...

0 up, 0 down

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